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Topic: Sympathy for the Devil?

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CharleyHorse46

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Sympathy for the Devil?
« on: August 07, 2018, 09:11:29 AM »
Are there any villains in life, history, literature, film or television who are so compelling compared to the hero that you find yourself rooting for, perhaps even against your better judgment or sense of morality?

I'll name a couple to prime the pump:

1. Ricardo Montalban as Kahn in "Star Trek: the Wrath of Kahn."  So he was an actor I had previously only known as Mr. Roark on "Fantasy Island," and as the spokesman for Chrysler Cordobas, and he dominated that film and, indeed, the entire franchise.  He tore it up.  His quotes were brilliant, his delivery was beyond flawless and he was menacing and dominant.  I've seen the movie a hundred times and I'll admit it.  I want him to destroy Star Fleet.

2. Harrison Ford is likable and Indiana Jones was a refreshing franchise.  But I think it could've been even better if they had not killed off Belloq.  I won't go as far as to say I wanted him to prevail over Jones, but I will say his time as a nemesis was too short-lived.  With his wit, agreeableness and selfishness above ethos, he set the bar for nemeses at a level that scarcely ever reached again.  He was like Lawrence Jamieson and Dan Fielding rolled into one.

Drew4UTk

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Re: Sympathy for the Devil?
« Reply #1 on: August 07, 2018, 09:16:22 AM »
Tony Soprano

CharleyHorse46

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Re: Sympathy for the Devil?
« Reply #2 on: August 07, 2018, 09:19:50 AM »
Tony Soprano
Good morning, Drew.  How are you?  How are the ones you love?  I hope this day is beautiful and sunshiny for you and fills your heart with joy and your imagination with delight.
Would you please be so kind as to elaborate for the five or six of us in America who never watched the Sopranos?

FearlessF

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Re: Sympathy for the Devil?
« Reply #3 on: August 07, 2018, 09:25:35 AM »
hmm, thought this was a Rolling Stones tune

Seems odd to me that some folks out there have sympathy for the devil and seem to actually worship the devil

very odd - I understand the dark side can have a pull, but really?  The devil himself?
"Courage; Generosity; Fairness; Honor; In these are the true awards of manly sport."

Drew4UTk

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Re: Sympathy for the Devil?
« Reply #4 on: August 07, 2018, 09:30:06 AM »
I would certainly be happy to do so... As it was SOMETHING SHINY!!!!! and... well, I just hit 'post' and slinked away.. 

Tony Soprano, played by now deceased James Gondolfini, was a mid level lieutenant in a crime family from Jersey until his father passed just before the HBO series depicting it all began.. We meet Tony Soprano through his sessions with a shrink- and get to see the inner workings of a deeply disturbed person who demonstrates almost every negative characteristic of a sociopath... He is NOT a 'good fella', even using the filter of a deranged mafioso type... but we get entrapped in his antics as he loots his way through the series, robbing good hard working people, dealing with psychological disturbances, cheating on his wife, murdering his friends, carrying on through a strategic maze of demented tactics... and we're pulling for him at least 99% of the time, much to our own disappointment.  he played that role to the bone. 

CharleyHorse46

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Re: Sympathy for the Devil?
« Reply #5 on: August 07, 2018, 09:35:26 AM »
It is a Rolling Stones song, and not a bad one.  But I think the expression was around long before it was a song title.  Since 1667 probably when people started asking why John Milton made Satan so ambiguously likable and unlikable in "Paradise Lost."

I think some people are just contrary.  Or disenfranchised.  They want to be different.  If everybody on the sidewalks in Las Vegas is keeping right, some wise guy will keep left just to be that way.

I've never seen a movie or a Twilight Zone episode where anybody ever got what they wanted from the devil.  There was always hell to pay.

There was a song about a fiddler named Johnny but he was probably the exception to the rule.

CharleyHorse46

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Re: Sympathy for the Devil?
« Reply #6 on: August 07, 2018, 09:37:52 AM »
I would certainly be happy to do so... As it was SOMETHING SHINY!!!!! and... well, I just hit 'post' and slinked away..

Tony Soprano, played by now deceased James Gondolfini, was a mid level lieutenant in a crime family from Jersey until his father passed just before the HBO series depicting it all began.. We meet Tony Soprano through his sessions with a shrink- and get to see the inner workings of a deeply disturbed person who demonstrates almost every negative characteristic of a sociopath... He is NOT a 'good fella', even using the filter of a deranged mafioso type... but we get entrapped in his antics as he loots his way through the series, robbing good hard working people, dealing with psychological disturbances, cheating on his wife, murdering his friends, carrying on through a strategic maze of demented tactics... and we're pulling for him at least 99% of the time, much to our own disappointment.  he played that role to the bone.
Thank you, Drew.  Now I want to watch the show.  Before I spend 10 minutes googling would anybody like to save me all that hard labor and tell me where I can find it?  Hulu?  Vudu?  Netflix?

longhorn320

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Re: Sympathy for the Devil?
« Reply #7 on: August 07, 2018, 09:58:30 AM »
One of my favorite bad guys is Bruce Dern

He is so bad ya got to like him
They won't let me give blood anymore. The burnt orange color scares the hell out of the doctors.

UT-Erin03

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Re: Sympathy for the Devil?
« Reply #8 on: August 07, 2018, 10:27:17 AM »
It's not on anymore but I loved the TV show Heroes when it was running.    
Zachary Quinto played Sylar who would sometimes kill people and steal their superpowers.    Many of the people he stole powers from were already confused or burdened by their special abilities, so maybe he was doing them a favor by taking away their powers & giving them a chance at normalcy (for the ones he didn't kill).   He was super intense and sneaky, and had a hard family life and was just trying to explore more options for his purpose.  Too bad it was doing evil stuff, but I really liked his character and Sylar was one of the best characters on the show in general.  
« Last Edit: August 07, 2018, 10:30:12 AM by UT-Erin03 »

FearlessF

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Re: Sympathy for the Devil?
« Reply #9 on: August 07, 2018, 10:27:36 AM »
some crazy folks even liked Barry Switzer and Bobby Stoops
"Courage; Generosity; Fairness; Honor; In these are the true awards of manly sport."

Mr Tulip

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Re: Sympathy for the Devil?
« Reply #10 on: August 07, 2018, 10:39:25 AM »
Jack Nicholson's "Joker" wiped the screen with Michael Keaton's "Batman". You really wanted the Joker to prevail.
It's not fair to call Hannibal Lecter the bad guy. He isn't good, but he's more of a pivot in the plot. He's wonderfully evil, though, "Oh, and senator...Love the suit!".
Everybody likes Darth Vader (until his backstory was wussified by Haden Christianson).
I'm personally a fan of Jack Skellington's nemesis, Oogie Boogie.

FearlessF

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Re: Sympathy for the Devil?
« Reply #11 on: August 07, 2018, 11:01:21 AM »
Colonel Walter E. Kurtz, portrayed by Marlon Brando in Francis Ford Coppola's film, Apocalypse Now.

Don't think the audience is pulling for Kurtz, but there is obvious sympathy
"Courage; Generosity; Fairness; Honor; In these are the true awards of manly sport."

Mr Tulip

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Re: Sympathy for the Devil?
« Reply #12 on: August 07, 2018, 11:06:50 AM »
Of course, Magneto had a point.

MikeDeTiger

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Re: Sympathy for the Devil?
« Reply #13 on: August 07, 2018, 11:33:47 AM »
Thank you, Drew.  Now I want to watch the show.  Before I spend 10 minutes googling would anybody like to save me all that hard labor and tell me where I can find it?  Hulu?  Vudu?  Netflix?
If you're an Amazon Prime member, Sopranos is available on Prime Video.  Or HBO Now/HBO Go if you have a subscription to that.
A handy website for such things is www.justwatch.com/us   You type in the name of a show and it will tell you what services, if any, can it be streamed on, and what online outlets let you buy it as well.  

 

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