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Topic: OT - Books

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CWSooner

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Re: OT - Books
« Reply #56 on: January 18, 2018, 08:41:58 PM »
speaking of Civil War books, I have a ton of Civil War, Custer's Last Stand / Battlefield, etc books that were in my father's library at home and when he passed away six years ago, I inherited all of them along with all our genealogy work he and I had done over the past twenty years.  I have downsized and moved to a much smaller place, so I need to find a home for them.  I had thought of donating to the Lincoln library system, or the State Historical Society, but the society probably won't take them cause of not being specific to Nebraska history.  So.....

If you (or anyone else on this board) are interested, I would be happy to give them to someone who has an interest in that era.  PM me for more info if interested. 
If you can't find a good home for them, find a used bookstore and sell/donate them there.  They'll end up in a better place than a dumpster.  That's what I've done with a lot of my old books, including some I never got around to reading.
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CWSooner

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Re: OT - Books
« Reply #57 on: January 18, 2018, 08:47:01 PM »
That is truly amazing.  In retrospect, the battles toward the end of the ACW very much resembled the trench warfare of WWI.  On top of that, most of the European powers had military observers operating near the ACW battles so they *SHOULD* have learned those lessons and they *SHOULD* have seen trench warfare coming.
I think the thing that blinded the Europeans to this was that there were two European wars fought after the ACW where trenches were not an issue:
  • The Austro-Prussian war was fought in 1866 and only lasted barely over a month.  Prussia absolutely routed Austria and annexed most of what would become Germany.  
  • The Franco-Prussian war was fought in 1870-71 and only lasted half a year.  The Prussians absolutely routed the French and united most German-speaking people to form the German Empire and the furthest extent of German territorial control (other than temporary wartime control during WWI and WWII).  
Neither of these two wars lasted long enough for trenches and attrition-based warfare to become terribly relevant.
Yes.  Those two short wars, smallish by the standards of both the ACW and the 1914 collision of the armies, fooled 'em.
But there was still snobbery reference the ACW.  The attitude was, "What have the grubby Americans done that could possibly be of any value to us?"
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CWSooner

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Re: OT - Books
« Reply #58 on: January 18, 2018, 08:51:36 PM »
Has anyone here read Moby-Dick?  I haven't, and probably never will, but I recently read an interesting interpretation of it on the Font of All Wisdom and Knowledge.

Quote
The novel has also been read as being critical of the contemporary literary and philosophical movement Transcendentalism, attacking the thought of leading Transcendentalist Ralph Waldo Emerson in particular. The life and death of Ahab has been read as an attack on Emerson's philosophy of self reliance, for one, in its destructive potential and potential justification for egoism. Richard Chase writes that for Melville, 'Death–spiritual, emotional, physical–is the price of self-reliance when it is pushed to the point of solipsism, where the world has no existence apart from the all-sufficient self.' In that regard, Chase sees Melville's art as antithetical to that of Emerson's thought, in that Melville '[points] up the dangers of an exaggerated self-regard, rather than, as [...] Emerson loved to do, [suggested] the vital possibilities of the self.' Newton Arvin further suggests that self-reliance was, for Melville, really the '[masquerade in kingly weeds of] a wild egoism, anarchic, irresponsible, and destructive.'
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CatsbyAZ

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Re: OT - Books
« Reply #59 on: January 18, 2018, 09:14:19 PM »
Sooner, my first thought (without reflecting on this too much) is that Melville's extensive days at sea in the late 1830s and early 1840s probably disillusioned his Emerson instilled beliefs in the infinite virtuosity of individualistic self-sufficiency.

If so, I don't think Melville was articulating a full rejection of self-sufficiency as an ideal or virtue, but rather indicating that self-sufficiency sure as hell has its limits and Ahab is what it looks like when those limits fail, not only for the individual but to those around him.

SFBadger96

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Re: OT - Books
« Reply #60 on: January 19, 2018, 02:10:00 AM »
I read Moby Dick two or three years ago. I don't recommend it. Could have made a good short story. It wasn't a good novel.

As for what Melville was critiquing, God only knows. Some of what he has to say about whaling is interesting, and the story--if compressed--could be a good one. As it is, not so much.

I don't know if Moby Dick was the result of it, but thank goodness authors are no longer paid by the word.

_________________________________________________ ________________________________________

Bwar: I think a lot about the changes in the world right now and the potential for global cataclysm. Not so much from phallus measuring contests with North Korea which I regard as a sideshow, despite all the breath wasted on it, but three things bother me: (1) competition for scarce resources, particularly energy; (2) climate changes that cause forced migration, rapid changes in available resources, and ensuing conflicts; and (3) bit-part allies of larger, globally important countries that drag them into wars for no good reason other than no one was willing to say, "wait, this doesn't make any sense" (see, e.g., World War I).

There is little doubt that we're seeing a change from the world order of the last 70 years (the Pax Americana). There are lots of reasons to worry about where it is headed, but I'm hoping that economic ties between the three currently most important powers, the US., the E.U., and China, continue to give us reasons to support stability, rather than getting into shooting wars because our allies do dumb things. But hope is not a method.

If I were the Russians, while I would appreciate getting access to the sea and middle eastern oil resources, and having a good laugh at the U.S.'s expense, while keeping western European prime ministers up at night, I would be more worried about the threat China poses to the south. There is a reason China is rapidly building its naval fleet, and it's not because capital ships are cool to look at.
« Last Edit: January 19, 2018, 01:06:39 PM by SFBadger96 »

Geolion91

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Re: OT - Books
« Reply #61 on: January 19, 2018, 12:54:54 PM »
Has anyone here read Moby-Dick?  I haven't, and probably never will, but I recently read an interesting interpretation of it on the Font of All Wisdom and Knowledge.

I read it a looong time ago, when it hit the bestsellers list (jk).  I really don't remember a lot of the details, but I did enjoy it.
Often times, I think people go into these interpretations of novels so others can see how brilliant they are.  I believe most novels are written for the reader to enjoy a story.  Authors do often insert their ideology into the stories (i.e. "The Jungle"), but I doubt, in most cases, they were trying to make some deep philosophical point.

CWSooner

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Re: OT - Books
« Reply #62 on: January 19, 2018, 08:54:15 PM »
Sooner, my first thought (without reflecting on this too much) is that Melville's extensive days at sea in the late 1830s and early 1840s probably disillusioned his Emerson instilled beliefs in the infinite virtuosity of individualistic self-sufficiency.

If so, I don't think Melville was articulating a full rejection of self-sufficiency as an ideal or virtue, but rather indicating that self-sufficiency sure as hell has its limits and Ahab is what it looks like when those limits fail, not only for the individual but to those around him.
Catsby:
Well, the review I quoted does say "the dangers of an exaggerated self-regard," which I think is pretty much what you are saying.
I think that the Melville's time at sea, as you mention, impressed on him the interconnectedness of us all.  If Melville was totally rejecting Emerson, perhaps he saw him as going beyond mere self-reliance into self-absorption.
I am reminded of the at the beginning of Patton, where the general speaks in an auditorium to his assembled troops.  His real lines got bowdlerized a bit in the movie.
"An army is a team. It lives, eats, sleeps, and fights as a team. This individual hero stuff is bullshit. The bilious bastards who write that stuff for the Saturday Evening Post don't know any more about real battle than they do about f***ing."
The crew of a sailing ship thousands of miles from home is also a team, on which the simplest little error by one man can lead to disaster for all.
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huskerdinie

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Re: OT - Books
« Reply #63 on: January 20, 2018, 11:42:14 AM »
If you can't find a good home for them, find a used bookstore and sell/donate them there.  They'll end up in a better place than a dumpster.  That's what I've done with a lot of my old books, including some I never got around to reading.
I did that with a lot of my sister's old romance books, and some of my old science fiction books years ago, but Lincoln has lost a lot of used bookstores that I used to frequent - I will have to check and see if any remaining stores are taking these types of books.  If not, maybe a garage sale or the library for its yearly book sale.  Good suggestion; I had completely forgot about used bookstores, lol.  
I know that you believe you understand what you think I said,
but I am not sure you realize what you heard is not what I meant.  Anonymous

betarhoalphadelta

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Re: OT - Books
« Reply #64 on: January 20, 2018, 01:13:11 PM »
I've donated to the public library quite a bit. I think they essentially just resell the books, rather than putting them into circulation for lending. But a lot of people get benefit from the public library system, so I figure it's probably a better thing for everyone than selling them at pennies on the dollar to a used bookstore.

huskerdinie

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Re: OT - Books
« Reply #65 on: January 21, 2018, 04:09:41 PM »
Yeah, that is what our library does; they have a  yearly book sale plus every library has a book nook, where used books are on display to buy - like 50 cents for paperbacks and $1 for hardcover.  I have filled out a few missing books in series I collect from the book nook.  I just want someone to get good use out of the books my dad spent years collecting and are duplicates of the ones I have.  
I know that you believe you understand what you think I said,
but I am not sure you realize what you heard is not what I meant.  Anonymous

CatsbyAZ

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Re: OT - Books
« Reply #66 on: January 23, 2018, 04:49:46 PM »
I'm reading War and Peace largely because I was complaining to my neighbor about what a slog Dostoyevsky's Crime and Punishment was (the Tell Tale Heart, just a lot longer and made as boring as possible--and ok, with sort of a tale of redemption at the end). His reaction was to agree, then to suggest War and Peace as the antidote (it is his favorite novel!).
The antidote (or antithesis) to weighty Russian Realism is Anton Chekhov, especially his short stories. He's more famous in his time as a playwright, and along the way, writing plays and seeing how much could be said with less, and reading bulky Tolstoy and Dostoyevsky editions, he wondered if just as much could be conveyed by shorter means.
Before you read Karenina try Chekhov's 20 page "Lady with the Dog." It's essentially the same story as Karenini, but uses Impressionism to strongly convey and emphasize a similar emotional footprint without bogging itself down in details or creating an exhaustive day to day world.

utee94

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Re: OT - Books
« Reply #67 on: January 23, 2018, 05:27:19 PM »
^^^^

Excellent points. I actually enjoyed the weighty Russian Realism of Dostoyevsky and Tostoy, but as a thespian I appreciated Anton Chekhov even more.   For my senior-directed final exam in high school theater, I adapted a version of The Seagull and it turned out really well.



SFBadger96

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Re: OT - Books
« Reply #68 on: February 02, 2018, 12:55:39 PM »
War and Peace, Leo Tolstoy: A Middle-Aged Nerd’s Review

Seriously this book is too long. Way too long. Setting that aside, the substance?

Russia’s participation in the Napoleonic Wars, particularly in 1807 and 1812 draws his subjects, members of the Russian aristocracy, together. The novel opens with the middle-aged aristocrats worried about war with the genius French leader, Napoleon. Young men drink, fight, and generally act irresponsibly. Those with higher social standing escape serious consequences; those with lower standing join the military. Some of the aristocracy join the military out of a sense of duty, but most do not. The women focus on social intrigue and finding the right matches for their families. The aristocracy appears to value women for their outward beauty and their ability to draw a crowd; it values men for their wealth.

The Russians, in alliance with Austria, face Napoleon’s French army at Austerlitz in 1807. They believe they will win and have the plan to do so. They also have a Tsar that the Russians just adore—he’s just so wonderful! (But it turns out that he’s no military leader.) The Army fails to follow its plan—as it, and every other army, always does—and the French route the Russians (the Austrians are of no help). During this disaster, one of our aristocratic heroes (it doesn’t really matter who) appears to die a hero’s death.

Russia and France make peace and become allies. No one is entirely sure why, but it happens. Without a war to distract us, Tolstoy wants to make sure (as he has from the beginning) that everyone thinks through every moment of every social interaction. No seriously, he doesn’t want you to forget that. Which makes you think through every moment of reading this section of the novel (as in, “why am I still reading this drivel?”). Oh, and it turns out our hero didn’t really die, but his wife, whom he didn’t like anyway, dies, basically of a broken heart, during child birth. He doesn’t really care much about his son.

Oh, and another of our aristocratic heroes is married to a wife he also doesn’t like, but who is very popular…especially with other men. That doesn’t mean that she cheats on him—she probably does—but he thinks another member of the aristocracy (though a lower, less important member) takes advantage of this. They fight a duel. Everyone lives, though there are some injuries; I forget exactly what. It’s a big scandal and our hero is embarrassed. He begins trying to find the meaning of life.

The young, frivolous girls become young frivolous teenagers. They are confused by their emotions, but because this is the 19th century aristocracy, they are all due to find husbands. This leads to problems because they are frivolous teenagers engaging with adult men (but not sex problems because—the Scarlet Letter notwithstanding—this is a 19th century novel).

Seriously, why am I still reading this book?

Anyway, one of our heroes—the one wounded at Austerlitz—is supposed to marry one of the frivolous teens; it falls apart because they aren’t around each other for about a year (what happens in between doesn’t really matter, except that the teen is a little impulsive). They break off the engagement. That’s bad for the teen’s family because they are slowly going broke and they were hoping a marriage to another, richer aristocrat’s family would shore things up. The other hero is still trying to find the meaning of life, but failing.

Stuff happens. Tolstoy keeps reminding us that in Every. Single. Interaction. Everyone. Thinks. A lot. And. Has. Emotions. But I’m still reading. For some reason.

Ok, some years pass, some stuff happens, and Napoleon invades Russia (now it’s 1812). Well, it’s not really Napoleon, it’s just a bunch of people associated with Napoleon (including Napoleon) and its everyone’s fault and no one’s fault—including definitely not Napoleon (except that it sort of is). Russia will handle this all just fine.

Oops, it just lost the battle at Smolensk. Very bad. Now the Tsar appeals to the aristocrats for more soldiers, and gets some (but not as many as they could give, if they were being realistic). Between our two major heroes, the one who miraculously survived the battle of Austerlitz returns to the army. The other doesn’t, but wonders if he should. The women continue to fret over their families and whether the teens/young women will find suitable matches.

At the battle of Borodino, just outside of Moscow, the non-Army hero (still searching for the meaning of life) wanders around getting in the way of things, is nearly killed (but escapes injury), and is basically a nuisance, though Tolstoy doesn’t call him that. Our other hero is once again heroically injured in battle, and probably dies. Oh, nope. He survives…maybe. This time his injury appears much worse—he remains in critical condition.

The Russians win (?) the battle at Borodino, and Napoleon has basically nothing to do with any of it, because he never really does, except when he does, but he doesn’t. Ever. Sort of. Despite winning the battle, feeling undermanned, the Russian general pulls the Army back, out of Moscow, leaving it to the French. Our meaning of life hero continues to wander around trying to do something. Anything. The French arrest him for being a decent human being.

Our critical condition hero is reunited with his lost teen love, who loves him again because he is critically ill. He’s really touch and go, people. We don’t know whether he will make it. Then he doesn’t. But he has like a four-day period of clarity in which he knows he will die, figures out that love is the meaning of life, loves everyone, but treats them badly because he knows that he’s figured it all out and is about to die, then he dies. Everyone is very sad. Please don’t forget that in Every. Single. Interaction. Everyone. Thinks. A lot. And. Has. Emotions.

Our meaning of life hero remains a prisoner of war and the French force-march him back towards Smolensk as they try to flee Russia. The Russian commanding general knows the French army is disintegrating without him having to do anything, so he keeps trying to keep the generals under him from doing anything. It doesn’t really work, so people die unnecessarily. Remember, the people in charge aren’t really in charge, except when they are, but they still really aren’t. Oh, and he is an underappreciated hero because he recognized all this was happening, but he still didn’t have any control. So why is he a hero again? This point isn’t clear. But he’s underappreciated.

Some of the side characters that you continue to try to remember whenever they show up (except the guy with the lisp, he’s easy to spot), show up again when they attack a destitute French unit. They free our meaning of life hero. He still hasn’t done anything, but he appears closer to finding the meaning of life, particularly after putting his closest friend in the forced march out of his mind as the French execute the poor guy because he’s sick.

The French retreat—as we know from history—is a disaster. But Tolstoy reminds the nerd in us just how bad it was. Seriously, people, don’t invade Russia at the beginning of winter without adequate supplies and a supply line. Hitler would forget this only about 100 years later. Thank goodness.

Ok, so remember that meaning of life hero didn’t like his wife much? Well she died. So now he marries impulsive teen girl who was sad when critical condition hero died, but now she loves him, so that’s good. Meaning of life hero has discovered that none of this except love really matters, so that’s what he cares about now. And he’s totally whipped—so is she, by the way, so that’s cool. And two other mostly important, but not critically important, characters also marry, which also rescues the failing aristocratic family’s wealth. They love each other, too, despite their flaws. Oh, remember critical condition hero’s son, that he didn’t care about? You don’t either, but he’s still around. Whatever. But please don’t forget that in Every. Single. Interaction. Everyone. Thinks. A lot. And. Has. Emotions.

Ok, ok, enough already. But I’m almost finished, so I have to keep going. After 1300+ pages of fatalism, Tolstoy wraps a nice, neat bow on things and everyone lives happily ever after (and stops paying attention to the Napoleonic wars, which actually aren’t over, but who cares?). Seriously. Everyone still alive is good. They have their issues—we all do—but everyone’s happy. Except the old countess. She’s old, sad, and we should pity her.

A couple of side notes: 1) Tolstoy both values women more than he thinks others do, but is still sure they are second class citizens. He leaves us knowing that a woman’s character is more important than her beauty, so that’s nice. 2) There are a lot of peasants in this book. But screw them, they are unimportant. Nonetheless, Tolstoy doesn’t like that military leaders don’t seem to mind the deaths of the soldiers or the populace around the war. War and killing are bad. Don’t forget that. But also don’t worry about the little people; they don’t matter.

I think nearly every writer starts his or her novel trying to make a grander point. At heart, Tolstoy was really trying to use War and Peace to let us know that modern philosophy and science-y stuff are all misguided: we are screwed, have no free will even though we want to believe that we do, and divine providence is more important than modern folks give it (“Him”) credit for. Oh, and some stuff about love.

His problem is that after 1400 pages he thinks he may have been too subtle. So he goes on for another fifty pages with his undergraduate senior thesis in logic on why free will is a farce, and all of these so-called leaders are shams. He knows you will keep reading; you got this far, right? Right. I read it.

The notes on the back cover call this “the greatest novel ever written.” Nope. It has some decent moments, and Tolstoy has some decent observations (along with a lot of bad ones), and to someone like me the military history part of the novel is interesting. But fundamentally—like this review—this book is Way. Too. Long.
« Last Edit: February 02, 2018, 01:10:00 PM by SFBadger96 »

CatsbyAZ

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Re: OT - Books
« Reply #69 on: March 25, 2018, 09:48:13 AM »
Reading the 2011 Pulitzer winning novel "A Visit From The Goon Squad" by Jennifer Egan.
It's a friendlier Modernist style text, using a series of short stories related not by plot but rather through the character's different, un-sequenced stages of life. It probably takes two reads to grasp; much of the text presumes the reader has figured out how it will end. And through it all there's plenty of thematic dwelling on the theme of time's passing, especially in the case of the music industry.

 

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