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The Power Five => Big Ten => Topic started by: OrangeAfroMan on June 19, 2019, 11:24:00 PM

Title: Ring of Honor
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on June 19, 2019, 11:24:00 PM
Who should be in your school's "Ring of Honor" or whatever you want to call it?
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I was reading the Florida beat writer's opinion that Florida's parameters to be inducted were too high.
Criteria to Merit Consideration
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The fact anything concerning the NFL is odd to me, as the writer agrees, too.  Yes, a Ring of Honor should be exclusive, but in the history if Florida football, given these parameters, there's only 5 that have been honored and only Urban Meyer is still eligible and hasn't been inducted. 
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School record-holders would be an easy one - leading passer, rusher, sack artist, etc....right?  So I was curious what you guys would do with your school.
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As Florida only has 5, I would say pick 15 instead, for an average.  A good number, still exclusive, but every honored would be worthwhile.

Who would be your 15 players & coaches in your school's Ring of Honor?

Title: Re: Ring of Honor
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on June 19, 2019, 11:52:49 PM
HC/QB - Steve Spurrier - Heisman, NC as coach, all-time winningest HC
HC - Urban Meyer - 2x NC
QB - Danny Wuerffel - Heisman, NC, 2x SEC POY
QB - Tim Tebow - Heisman, 2 NCs, all the awards
QB - Rex Grossman - consensus all-american, 2nd for Heisman
RB - Errict Rhett - all-time leading rusher
RB - Emmitt Smith - 2nd leading rusher, Heisman Finalist, 1st rd pick
WR - Carlos Alvarez - all-time leading receiver (yards), consensus all-american
LB - Wilbur Marshall - 2x consensus all-american, national defensive POY
LB - Brandon Spikes - 2x consensus all-american, NC
DE - Alex Brown - consensus all-american, all-time leader in sacks
OT - Lomas Brown - consensus all-american
CB - Fred Weary - consensus all-american, all-time leader in INTs
S  - Lawrence Wright - all-american, only Thorpe award winner at UF



That's 14.....yeah, this is impossible.  There's like 10+ more guys that belong on this list. 
Title: Re: Ring of Honor
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on June 19, 2019, 11:54:31 PM
I think it's basically impossible to have both everyone with a resume that qualifies them AND have positional equality.  I could have just 16 skill position guys on here.  Or 16 defensive players.  I could put 5+ QBs, easily.  

Forget Wisconsin and their RBs.....16 total players & coaches?  There's no way.
Title: Re: Ring of Honor
Post by: NorthernOhioBuckeye on June 20, 2019, 07:41:44 AM
I did a quick search about the qualifications to be in Ohio State's ring of honor, but could not find anything. However, looking at those enshrined on the ring, there are 7 players and 2 coaches.

The players are Chic Harley, Vic Janowicz, Hopalong Cassidy, Archie Griffin, Les Horvath, Eddie George and Bill Willis. 5 of those players are Heisman Trophy winners so one would guess that being a HT winner would get you on the ring. But Troy Smith is conspicuously absent.

Chic Harley was a great player is generally regarded as the player that brought tOSU football into national prominence. The Horseshoe was generally regarded as "the house that Chic Harley built", so it seems fitting he is on the ring.

Bill Willis was and All American in the early 1940's during the war. He is also one of the first black players to play in the NFL. I don't know this to be the case, but I would suspect that is why he is included in the Ring of Honor as his college resume, while accomplished, does not outshine many more players at tOSU.

Paul Brown won a National Title in his 2nd season at tOSU, but only coached for 3 years before joining the Navy in 1944. I would guess that he is in the Ring of Honor due to his accomplishments at all levels of football.

As for Woody Hayes, that goes without saying.

EDIT: Correction, Troy Smith is in the Ring of Honor. After I posted, I got to thinking about it and thinking that they had added him. He was added in 2014 during the home game against TSUN. 
Title: Re: Ring of Honor
Post by: FearlessF on June 20, 2019, 09:00:10 AM
couldn't find anything on "the Ring of Honor", but this is the list of retired jerseys at UNL



1949 No. 60 Tom Novak Four-Time All-Conference

1972 No. 20  Johnny Rodgers  1972 Heisman/Walter Camp

1972  No. 79  Rich Glover  1972 Outland/Lombardi

1982  No. 50  Dave Rimington  1981, 1982 Lombardi/1982 Outland

1983  No. 30  Mike Rozier  1983 Heisman/Maxwell/Walter Camp

1983  No. 71  Dean Steinkuhler  1983 Outland/Lombardi

1994  No. 75  Larry Jacobson  1971 Outland

1994  No. 75  Will Shields  1992 Outland

1994  No. 34  Trev Alberts  1993 Butkus

1995  No. 74  Zach Wiegert  1994 Outland

1996  No. 15  Tommie Frazier  1995 Johnny Unitas

1998  No. 67  Aaron Taylor  1997 Outland

1998  No. 98  Grant Wistrom  1997 Lombardi

2002  No. 54  Dominic Raiola  2000 Rimington

2002  No. 7  Eric Crouch  2001 Heisman/Walter Camp

2004  No. 64  Bob Brown  College and Pro Football Hall of Fame

2010  No. 93  Ndamukong Suh  Outland/Lombardi,Nagurski/Bednarik

2017  No. 33  Forrest Behm  College Football Hall of Fame

2017  Guy Chamberlin  College Football Hall of Fame

2017  No. 38  Sam Francis  College Football Hall of Fame

2017  No. 66  Wayne Meylan  College Football Hall of Fame

2017  No. 12  Bobby Reynolds  College Football Hall of Fame

2017  No. 25  George Sauer  College Football Hall of Fame

2017  No. 1  Clarence Swanson  College Football Hall of Fame

2017  No. 35  Ed Weir  College Football Hall of Fame
Title: Re: Ring of Honor
Post by: 847badgerfan on June 20, 2019, 11:02:04 AM
There are only 6 names on the facades at Camp Randall. The latest player is Ron Dayne, but the latest addition was Allen Shafer, who played in the 1940's.
Title: Re: Ring of Honor
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on June 20, 2019, 11:04:49 AM
Quote from: NorthernOhioBuckeye on June 20, 2019, 07:41:44 AM
Paul Brown won a National Title in his 2nd season at tOSU, but only coached for 3 years before joining the Navy in 1944. I would guess that he is in the Ring of Honor due to his accomplishments at all levels of football.
Paul Brown is always an interesting case when discussing accomplishments at Ohio State or in the Big Ten or in College Football generally.  

I believe that Paul Brown is the greatest football coach ever.  You can disagree, but regardless, he is unarguably in that discussion.  The problem, with regard to tOSU, the Big Ten, or CFB is that he didn't coach at this level for very long.  He was born in 1908 and became the HC at Severn School (a Maryland HS) at just 22 years old in 1930.  He won a Maryland State Championship in his first year then left after the 1931 season to become HC at Massillon Washington HS in 1932.  

If you don't know Ohio HS football, this will be hard to understand but Massillon Washington is a HUGE football school.  They are Canton McKinley's primary rival.  Chris Spielman once said that he had played in tOSU/M as well as Browns/Steelers and other NFL rivalries but that Massillon/McKinley was the most intense.  Football is HUGE there.  

Anyway, Brown coached Massillon Washington for nine years (1932-1940) and won FIVE state championships.  That was good enough to get him the HC job at Ohio State where he coached the Buckeye's first NC team in his second year, 1942.  

Brown's last year at Ohio State (1943) was a disaster mostly because Ohio State was part of the Army's training program which did NOT allow trainees to participate in sports while other schools (including Michigan and Purdue) were in the Navy's training program which did allow trainees to participate in sports.  Thus, Brown's 1943 team was made up almost completely of 17 year old freshman too young to enlist and they went 3-6 including getting pasted 30-7 and 45-7 by Purdue's and Michigan's older and more experienced Navy trainees respectively.  

After the 1943 season Brown joined the Navy and wound up coaching the Great Lakes Navy Training Station football team which competed against colleges for two years (1944-1945).  

Brown's replacement at Ohio State, (Carroll Widdoes) was seen as a placeholder because it was assumed at the time that Brown would return to Ohio State after the war.  Instead, after the war he coached 17 years for the Cleveland Browns and eight years for the Cincinnati Bengals at the professional level.  All told, Brown won:
 - 6 HS State Championships (1 MD, 5 OH) in 11 years coaching HS football
 - 1 NC in three years coaching CFB (five years if you count the two at Great Lakes)
 - 7 Championships in 25 years of coaching Professional Football.  

As I said above, I think he was the greatest football coach ever.  That said, it is hard to argue for him as the greatest coach at Ohio State because he only coached three years, with one league and one national title.  

I've come around to this phrasing:
I believe that Paul Brown was the greatest coach to ever coach at Ohio State or in the Big Ten but not the greatest coach at Ohio State or in the Big Ten due to lack of sufficient time at the school/in the league.  

Title: Re: Ring of Honor
Post by: SFBadger96 on June 20, 2019, 12:06:46 PM
For Wisconsin:
Ameche and Dayne (Heisman trophies)
Pat Richter, more for his time as AD than for his football success, which was also substantial.
Barry Alvarez
Dave Schreiner: great two-way player, consensus AA, KIA at Okinawa in '45.
For their college and NFL success: JJ Watt, Joe Thomas, Mike Webster, and Troy Vincent.

**Hirsch, like Russell Wilson, I struggle with because of his one year as a Badger.
Title: Re: Ring of Honor
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on June 20, 2019, 01:19:28 PM
Quote from: FearlessF on June 20, 2019, 09:00:10 AM
couldn't find anything on "the Ring of Honor", but this is the list of retired jerseys at UNL



1949 No. 60 Tom Novak Four-Time All-Conference

1972 No. 20  Johnny Rodgers  1972 Heisman/Walter Camp

1972  No. 79  Rich Glover  1972 Outland/Lombardi

1982  No. 50  Dave Rimington  1981, 1982 Lombardi/1982 Outland

1983  No. 30  Mike Rozier  1983 Heisman/Maxwell/Walter Camp

1983  No. 71  Dean Steinkuhler  1983 Outland/Lombardi

1994  No. 75  Larry Jacobson  1971 Outland

1994  No. 75  Will Shields  1992 Outland

1994  No. 34  Trev Alberts  1993 Butkus

1995  No. 74  Zach Wiegert  1994 Outland

1996  No. 15  Tommie Frazier  1995 Johnny Unitas

1998  No. 67  Aaron Taylor  1997 Outland

1998  No. 98  Grant Wistrom  1997 Lombardi

2002  No. 54  Dominic Raiola  2000 Rimington

2002  No. 7  Eric Crouch  2001 Heisman/Walter Camp

2004  No. 64  Bob Brown  College and Pro Football Hall of Fame

2010  No. 93  Ndamukong Suh  Outland/Lombardi,Nagurski/Bednarik

2017  No. 33  Forrest Behm  College Football Hall of Fame

2017  Guy Chamberlin  College Football Hall of Fame

2017  No. 38  Sam Francis  College Football Hall of Fame

2017  No. 66  Wayne Meylan  College Football Hall of Fame

2017  No. 12  Bobby Reynolds  College Football Hall of Fame

2017  No. 25  George Sauer  College Football Hall of Fame

2017  No. 1  Clarence Swanson  College Football Hall of Fame

2017  No. 35  Ed Weir  College Football Hall of Fame

That's ridiculous. 

How in the Hell would you even field a team? Fractions? 
Title: Re: Ring of Honor
Post by: huskerdinie on June 20, 2019, 06:43:42 PM
Quote from: Brutus Buckeye on June 20, 2019, 01:19:28 PM
That's ridiculous.

How in the Hell would you even field a team? Fractions?
I think it is only the jersey that is retired, not the number; although I think there ARE some numbers that are also retired.  I always get confused on the difference.  I would almost bet that the numbers that are retired are the ones listed in the north stadium under the big screen - names / numbers such as Novak, Remington, Steinkuhler, etc. As far as I have heard, there are only about three numbers that are permanently retired, while some are only temporarily retired.  Fearless, am I close?  
Title: Re: Ring of Honor
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on June 20, 2019, 07:26:06 PM
So Wisconsin doesn't honor Lee Evans (UW all-time leader in REC yds and TD) or Montee Ball (all-time NCAA leader in rush TD) or Melvin Gordon (2nd-best single-season by a RB in NCAA)?


All the confusion with retired numbers vs jerseys vs school hall of fame, etc......I'm just thinking about like how the Dallas Cowboys have names around the stadium.  Florida's are like this:
(https://www.gatorsports.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/07/nz082907Stadiumsigns4TW.jpg)
they're up high, along the top edge of the stadium, so they're hard to identify if you don't know what they are. 
I just don't like the NFL aspect, as both Emmitt and Youngblood could just be honored for their college exploits.  



Youngblood and Smith in the college HOF, which should be an automatic qualifier, but somehow isn't.  
Title: Re: Ring of Honor
Post by: Kris60 on June 20, 2019, 09:36:21 PM
For WVU, if I were a one man committee the criteria would be at least one of these, but not all of these:

Winning the Heisman
Winning a major individual award (Rimington, Nagurski, Butkus, etc.)
Being elected to the College Football HOF
I’m on the fence about being a consensus AA.  WVU has 11 of those.  Schools like Ohio St and ND probably have 30 or 40.

But what’s funny is if WVU had all of those criteria in place Pat White, a guy who I think absolutely deserves to be in a Ring of Honor right now, wouldn’t qualify on any of those 4 parameters.
Title: Re: Ring of Honor
Post by: 847badgerfan on June 20, 2019, 10:32:44 PM
Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on June 20, 2019, 07:26:06 PM
So Wisconsin doesn't honor Lee Evans (UW all-time leader in REC yds and TD) or Montee Ball (all-time NCAA leader in rush TD) or Melvin Gordon (2nd-best single-season by a RB in NCAA)?
No, they don't. Wisconsin is different.
Title: Re: Ring of Honor
Post by: MichiFan87 on June 20, 2019, 10:48:04 PM
Michigan doesn't really have anything like Ring of Honor except for the Athletic Department's Hall of Fame and the retired numbers (Wistert brothers (OTs), Desmond Howard (WR), Bennie Oosterbaan (WR), Gerald Ford* (C), Ron Kramer (WR), and Tom Harmon (RB)). *To be sure, Ford's number was largely retired for the fact that he was a president, though he was part of two national championship teams.

To paraphrase Harbaugh, it's hard to compare players (especially from different eras) because in the end someone ends up being diminished, considering there are so many All-Americans, College Football HOFers, and the like from Michigan.
Title: Re: Ring of Honor
Post by: Kris60 on June 21, 2019, 12:01:09 AM
I’m not sure being a record holder when you leave is a reason to be included.  Records are fluid.  If you won the Heisman you won the Heisman.  If you were an All American you were All American.  That never changes.

As recently as 1995 WVU had a kid named Robert Walker who left as the school’s second all time leading rusher and was just 28 yards short of being the all time leader. He’s now 7th on the list and I personally don’t consider him one of the top 10 backs in school history.  
Title: Re: Ring of Honor
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on June 21, 2019, 01:25:37 AM
Okay, but by that argument, there's no reason to honor Jerry Rice, because someone, someday, will break his receiving records.
And what do you do about bad Heisman winners?  Hornung over Jim Brown, Torretta over whoever, etc.  



Yes, your ring of honor grows over time...so what?  So do the number of Heisman winners, so does the number of HOFers.  


What if you scheduled it, like you add 2 players every 10 years?  And if 2 don't stand above all the rest the previous 10 years, you go back further to find worthy players from the distant past.


Or you have a set number in your ring of honor, and when someone great comes along, say Woodson for UM, you boot out the oldest guy, but he gets his own nook in the stadium, with a bust and some memorabilia, like an inset locker-type thing.  
So Woodson replaces Oosterbaan - and that day is an opportunity to honor BOTH - and Woodson's name is prominently-placed and Oosterbaan gets his corner of the mezzanine.  

Win-win, no?
Title: Re: Ring of Honor
Post by: Hawkinole on June 21, 2019, 02:40:52 AM




Title: Re: Ring of Honor
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on June 21, 2019, 04:38:42 AM
No Haden Fry?
Title: Re: Ring of Honor
Post by: NorthernOhioBuckeye on June 21, 2019, 07:00:46 AM
After re-reading your original post, I realize I neglected to answer your original question, who should be in the Ring of Honor that is not already there.

In the case of tOSU, I believe that there are many names that one could conclude should be honored, but it would be very hard to come up with a criteria that would add to the ring without diminishing the significance of the players accomplishments. 

Currently at tOSU is appears that being a Heisman winner qualifies you to be on the ROH. My belief is that Chic Harley is included being as the Heisman was not available to him during his days and as I stated previously, he is often mentioned as the reason that the Horseshoe was built in that he was instrumental in putting tOSU on the National mp. 

As for players that are not there that I feel should be, I really can't think of any without diminishing the significance of those that are enshrined. But if we did, I would have to include Jack Tatum, Orlando Pace (whom I still say was the best left tackle ever to play the game at the College or Professional level), Chris Spielman, Randy Gradishar, John Hicks (while an outstanding football player, it is also generally believed that he ripped the M Club banner down 1973 - Kudos), AJ Hawk, Antoine Winfield (the absolute best corner I have ever seen play the game), Pete Johnson, Andy Katzenmoyer, Jim Lachey, Jim Stillwagon, Paul Warfield to name a few. 
Title: Re: Ring of Honor
Post by: NorthernOhioBuckeye on June 21, 2019, 07:12:48 AM
If we were to expand to list to all sports, there are a few names that immediately stand out.

  • Jack Nicklaus - Golf (generally considered the best to ever play the game)
  • Jessie Owens - Track and Field (Put Adolf Hitler to shame in the 1936 Olympics with 4 Gold Medals and is honored at TSUN's Ferry Field with a plaque to commemorate 4 world records in 45 mins at the Big Ten Track and Field Championships in 1935)
  • John Havlicek - Basketball
  • Jerry Lucas - Basketball
  • Logan Stieber - Wrestling (1 of only 4 wrestlers in NCAA history to win 4 National Championships)
  • Kyle Snyder - Wrestling (3 time NCAA National Champion, youngest Olympic Gold Medalist and Youngest ever World Champion - all done in the same season, one of the greatest accomplishments ever in the sport)


Title: Re: Ring of Honor
Post by: Benthere2 on June 21, 2019, 07:24:13 AM
Minnesota:
For retired numbers

[th]No.[/th]
[th]Player[/th]
[th]Position[/th]
[th]Career[/th]
[th]Date of Retirement[/th]

10
Paul Giel (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_Giel)
HB (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Halfback_(American_football))
1951–53
September 24, 1991

15
Sandy Stephens (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sandy_Stephens)
QB (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quarterback)
1959–61
November 18, 2000

54
Bruce Smith (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bruce_Smith_(halfback))
RB (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Running_back)
1940–41
June 27, 1977

72
Bronko Nagurski (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bronko_Nagurski)
FB (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fullback_(gridiron_football))/T (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tackle_(gridiron_football))
1927–29
October 27, 1979

78
Bobby Bell (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bobby_Bell)
LB (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linebacker)/DE (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Defensive_End)
1960–62
September 18, 2010



Others

Greg Eslinger- Outland
Peter Mortell- creating the Holder of the year award
Bernie Bierman- Coach in Hall of Fame
Tony Dungy
CArl Eller
Bud Grant
Leo Nomellini
Charlie Sanders
KArl Mecklenburg
MArion Barber Jr
Marion Barber III
Verne Gagne
Chip Lohmiller
Darrell Thompson
Eric Decker
Rick Upchurch




Title: Re: Ring of Honor
Post by: Cincydawg on June 21, 2019, 09:41:00 AM
UGA has a Circle of Honor that is notable for one guy who is missing ...

https://georgiadogs.com/sports/2017/6/17/ot-geo-circle-of-honor-html.aspx (https://georgiadogs.com/sports/2017/6/17/ot-geo-circle-of-honor-html.aspx)

Football players inducted eh, too hard to edit this thing, sorry:





Bob McWhorter, Inducted 1996

1913 Football All-American College Football Hall of Fame
(https://georgiadogs.com/images/2012/1/13/sinkwich-50.jpg)Frank Sinkwich, Inducted 1996

1942 Heisman Trophy Winner College Football Hall of Fame
(https://georgiadogs.com/images/2012/1/13/trippi-50.jpg)Charley Trippi, Inducted 1996

1946 Football All-America College Football Hall of Fame
(https://georgiadogs.com/images/2012/1/13/moody-50.jpg)Terri Moody Luckhurst, Inducted 1997

1981 National W. Golf Champion UGA's first female scholarship athlete
(https://georgiadogs.com/images/2012/1/13/spec-towns-50.jpg)Forrest "Spec" Towns , Inducted 1997

1936 Olympic 110-High Hurdles Gold Medalist; 1936 NCAA High Hurdles Champ
(https://georgiadogs.com/images/2012/1/18/patterson-50.jpg)Reid Patterson, Inducted 1997

1953 NCAA 100-Meter Freestyle Champion Set World Record, 50-meter free
(https://georgiadogs.com/images/2012/1/13/mcclain-50.jpg)Katrina McClain, Inducted 1998

Three-time W. Basketball Olympian 1987 National Player of the Year
(https://georgiadogs.com/images/2012/1/13/miller-50.jpg)Allen Miller, Inducted 1998

Four-time tennis All-American 1983 NCAA Doubles Champion
(https://georgiadogs.com/images/2012/1/13/g-50.jpg)Vernon "Catfish" Smith, Inducted 1998

1931 football All-American College Football Hall of Fame
(https://georgiadogs.com/images/2012/1/13/tarkenton-50.jpg)Fran Tarkenton, Inducted 1998

1960 All-American College Football Hall of Fame
(https://georgiadogs.com/images/2012/1/13/coole-50.jpg)Lisa Coole, Inducted 1999

1996 NCAA, 100-Butterfly Champion 1997 NCAA Woman of the Year
(https://georgiadogs.com/images/2012/1/13/hartman-50.jpg)William C. "Bill" Hartman, Inducted 1999

1937 Football All-American College Football Hall of Fame
(https://georgiadogs.com/images/2012/1/13/g-50.jpg)Dr. Tom Lyons, Inducted 1999

FB All-American, 1969, '70 1995 NCAA Silver Ann. Award
(https://georgiadogs.com/images/2012/1/13/kessler-50.jpg)Alec Kessler, Inducted 2000

1990 SEC Player of the Year Two-time Academic All-American
(https://georgiadogs.com/images/2012/1/13/stanfill-50.jpg)Bill Stanfill, Inducted 2000

1968 Outland Trophy winner
(https://georgiadogs.com/images/2012/1/13/wener-50.jpg)Lucy Wener, Inducted 2000

Three-time NCAA uneven bars champion
(https://georgiadogs.com/images/2012/1/13/g-50.jpg)Spurgeon "Spud" Chandler, Inducted 2000

New York Yankees World Series hero
(https://georgiadogs.com/images/2012/1/13/hoage-50.jpg)Terry Hoage, Inducted 2001

Two-time consensus All-America Academic All-America NCAA Top Six Recipient
(https://georgiadogs.com/images/2012/1/13/rauch-50.jpg)John Rauch, Inducted 2001

All-America QB, 1948 Head Coach, Oakland Raiders, Super Bowl II
(https://georgiadogs.com/images/2012/1/13/murphey-50.jpg)Liz Murphey, Inducted 2001

Women's Golf Coaches Hall of Fame, Women's Athletic Dir.
(https://georgiadogs.com/images/2012/1/13/parker-50.jpg)Al Parker, Inducted 2001

Four-year All-American, 1989, '90 Volvo, All-America Tennis, Collegiate Champion
(https://georgiadogs.com/images/2012/1/13/g-50.jpg)George Patton, Inducted 2002

Two-time football All-American DT 1966 SEC Lineman of the Year
(https://georgiadogs.com/images/2012/1/13/harris-50.jpg)Janet Harris, Inducted 2002

Four-time basketball All-American All-time UGA scorer, rebounder
(https://georgiadogs.com/images/2012/1/13/morocco-50.jpg)Zippy Morocco, Inducted 2002

Football, Basketball Star First UGA Basketball All-American
(https://georgiadogs.com/images/2012/1/13/carson-50.jpg)John Carson, Inducted 2003

All-American End, 1953 Four-sport letterman
(https://georgiadogs.com/images/2012/1/18/castronis-50.jpg)Mike Castronis, Inducted 2003

All-American tackle, 1945 UGA Freshman, JV Coach
(https://georgiadogs.com/images/2012/1/13/schreyer-50.jpg)Cindy Schreyer, Inducted 2003

1984 NCAA Women's Golf Champion; 1984 Honda Broderick National Player of the Year
(https://georgiadogs.com/images/2012/1/13/woerner-50.jpg)Scott Woerner, Inducted 2003

1980 All-American DB 1980 Nation's leading punt returner
(https://georgiadogs.com/images/2012/1/13/dooley-50.jpg)Vince Dooley, Inducted 2004

Hall of Fame Football Coach (1964-88) Director of Athletics (1979-2004) Six SEC Titles; 1980 National Champions
(https://georgiadogs.com/images/2012/1/13/st-john-50.jpg)Herb St. John, Inducted 2004

1946 All-SEC
(https://georgiadogs.com/images/2012/1/13/taormina-50.jpg)Sheila Taormina, Inducted 2004

4 Time All-America Swimmer 1996 Olympic Gold Medalist 1996, 2000 Olympic Games
(https://georgiadogs.com/images/2012/1/13/lettiere-50.jpg)Angela Lettiere, Inducted 2005

1994 NCAA singles championship, three consecutive ITA Grand Slam Finals; 1st women's Grand Slam national champion doubles team 1994 National Player of the Year and SEC Player of the Year; SEC Academic Honor Roll
(https://georgiadogs.com/images/2012/1/13/g-50.jpg)Jim Wilson, Inducted 2005

1964 All-America; 2001 Georgia Sports Hall of Fame; 1950-75 All-Time Team.
(https://georgiadogs.com/images/2012/1/13/wright-50.jpg)Corrinne Wright, Inducted 2005

1985 and 1986 U.S. National Team 1989 NCAA All-Around national champion and co-champion of the floor exercise event that same year; eight-time All-American 1989, 1990 All SEC
(https://georgiadogs.com/images/2012/1/13/bezecny-50.jpg)George Bezecny, Inducted 2006

Four year men's tennis lettermen (1982-85) All-America honors; All-SEC
(https://georgiadogs.com/images/2012/1/13/stepp-50.jpg)Heather Stepp, Inducted 2006

1992 NCAA vault title; 1993 NCAA vault and floor exercise titles; 1992 Honda Inspiration Award; 1993 SEC Gymnast of the Year
(https://georgiadogs.com/images/2012/1/13/copas-50.jpg)Dick Copas, Inducted 2006

Hall of Fame men's golf coach 17 NCAA Championship appearances, seven SEC titles
(https://georgiadogs.com/images/2012/1/13/bratkowski-50.jpg)Zeke Bratkowski, Inducted 2006

Record-setting quarterback 14-year career in the NFL
(https://georgiadogs.com/images/2012/1/13/pacheco-50.jpg)Priscilla Pacheco, Inducted 2006

Volleyball All-American
(https://georgiadogs.com/images/2015/2/6/smith-royce-50.jpg)Royce Smith, Inducted 2007

Football All-American
(https://georgiadogs.com/images/2012/1/13/spivey-50.jpg)Hope Spivey, Inducted 2007

Gymnastics All-American, National Champion
(https://georgiadogs.com/images/2012/1/13/zambiasi-50.jpg)Ben Zambiasi, Inducted 2007

Football All-American
(https://georgiadogs.com/images/2012/3/8/arnold-50.jpg)Kim Arnold, Inducted 2009
(https://georgiadogs.com/images/2012/3/8/mattox-50.jpg)Bernadette Mattox, Inducted 2009
(https://georgiadogs.com/images/2012/3/8/noon-50.jpg)Brent Noon, Inducted 2009
(https://georgiadogs.com/images/2012/3/8/matt-50.jpg)Matt Stinchcomb, Inducted 2009
(https://georgiadogs.com/images/2012/1/13/zeier-50.jpg)Eric Zeier, Inducted 2010

QB, All-time SEC career passing record
(https://georgiadogs.com/images/2012/1/13/ferguson-50.jpg)Debbie Ferguson, Inducted 2010

Four-time track Olympian
(https://georgiadogs.com/images/2012/1/13/Payne-50.jpg)Billy Payne, Inducted 2011

All-SEC and All-America defensive end
(https://georgiadogs.com/images/2012/1/13/shealy-50.jpg)Courtney Shealy, Inducted 2011

Five-time NCAA and 19-time SEC champion, 2000 NCAA Female Swimmer of the Year, finished with the maximum 28 All-America honors 2000 Olympics two time gold medalist
(https://georgiadogs.com/images/2012/1/13/kowal-50.jpg)Kristy Kowal, Inducted 2011
Eight-time NCAA champion and a 16-time SEC champion, 2000 NCAA Woman of the Year, Top VIII Award 2000 Olympics silver medalist
(https://georgiadogs.com/images/2012/10/29/lichey-50.jpg)Karin Lichey, Inducted 2012

Four-year letterwinner, five All-America honors, won the 1998 national title on floor, earned 11 All-America citations, named the winner of the 1999 Honda Award as the nation's top gymnast
(https://georgiadogs.com/images/2012/10/29/roundtree-50.jpg)Saudia Roundtree, Inducted 2012

Naismith National Player of the Year, Kodak All-America 1st team, SEC Player of the Year
(https://georgiadogs.com/images/2012/10/29/stinchcomb-50.jpg)Jon Stinchcomb, Inducted 2012

First-Team All-American, Academic All-America Team, All-SEC
(https://georgiadogs.com/images/2013/9/11/catlin-50.jpg)Marissa Catlin, Inducted 2013

Seven-time All-American, a three-time pick for the Rolex All-Star Team and a two-time selection to the USA Tennis Collegiate Team
(https://georgiadogs.com/images/2013/9/11/strong-50.jpg)Lori Strong, Inducted 2013

1994 NCAA bars champion and she claimed SEC titles on bars in 1993 and in the all-around in 1996
(https://georgiadogs.com/images/2013/9/10/dye47.jpg)Pat Dye, Inducted 2013

All-American, SEC Champion, SEC's Most Valuable Lineman following his Senior Season
(https://georgiadogs.com/images/2015/2/6/greer-50.jpg)Steve Greer, Inducted 2014

All-America football player and assistant coach
(https://georgiadogs.com/images/2015/2/6/ransom-50.jpg)Stephanie Yarem Ransom, Inducted 2014

Soccer First-Team All-America honors
(https://georgiadogs.com/images/2015/2/6/yoculan-50.jpg)Suzanne Yoculan, Inducted 2014

National Champion Gymnastics Coach
(https://georgiadogs.com/images/2016/2/23/anderson.jpg)Peter Anderson, Inducted 2015

Football All-America, All-SEC, Most Outstanding Offensive Player senior season
(https://georgiadogs.com/images/2016/2/23/boeker.jpg)Matias Boeker, Inducted 2015

Tennis NCAA team championship, singles and doubles titles, ITA National Player of the Year, SEC Player of the Year, All-America
(https://georgiadogs.com/images/2016/2/23/brown.jpg)Leah Brown, Inducted 2015

Gymnastics All-America, 2-time National Champion, Academic All-SEC
(https://georgiadogs.com/images/2016/2/23/cor.jpg)Maritza Correia, Inducted 2015

Swimming All-America, 11-time National Champion, SEC Champion, Olympic medalist
(https://georgiadogs.com/images/2016/6/9/kmiller.jpg)Kelly Miller, Inducted 2016

Women's Basketball All-SEC, 2000 and 2001 SEC Player of the Year, All-America and Academic All-America honors
(https://georgiadogs.com/images/2016/6/9/cmiller.jpg)Coco Miller, Inducted 2016

Women's Basketball All-SEC, All-America and Academic All-America honors
(https://georgiadogs.com/images/2016/6/9/miller_fb.jpg)John Little, Inducted 2016

Football First-Team All-America and All-SEC in 1985 and 1986, 2-time Academic All-SEC selection
(https://georgiadogs.com/images/2016/6/9/williams_sw.jpg)Stefanie Williams, Inducted 2016

Swimming 28-time All-American, 3-time National Champion & SEC Champion, SEC Academic Honor Roll (twice)
(https://georgiadogs.com/common/controls/image_handler.aspx?thumb_id=0&image_path=/images/2018/1/17/17coh_barber.jpg)Nicole Barber, Inducted 2017

3-time All-America, 4-time All-SEC, all-time leader in career stolen bases (257) and consecutive error-free games played (219) in the UGA, SEC and NCAA record books.
(https://georgiadogs.com/common/controls/image_handler.aspx?thumb_id=0&image_path=/images/2018/1/17/17coh_colwill.jpg)Chris Colwill, Inducted 2017

Three NCAA individual diving titles, 12 All-America honors, 5-time SEC individual champion, SEC Diver of the Year in 2005, 2006 and 2008, 2-time Olympian
(https://georgiadogs.com/common/controls/image_handler.aspx?thumb_id=0&image_path=/images/2018/1/17/17coh_davis.jpg)Thomas Davis, Inducted 2017

All-America First Team, All-SEC First Team, All-SEC Second Team, 2014 Walter Payton NFL Man of the Year Award, NFL All-Pro
(https://georgiadogs.com/common/controls/image_handler.aspx?thumb_id=0&image_path=/images/2018/1/17/17coh_hoffa.jpg)Reese Hoffa, Inducted 2017

3-time First-Team All-American indoors and outdoors, 2001 SEC outdoor shot put champion, No. 1 world shot put ranking, 3-time USA Outdoor champion (2007-08, 2012), twice a world champion (2006 Indoor and 2007 Outdoor), three times an Olympic Games competitor (2004, 2008, 2012), bronze medal at the London Olympic games in 2012.
(https://georgiadogs.com/common/controls/image_handler.aspx?thumb_id=0&image_path=/images/2018/10/10/18coh_descenza.jpg)Mary DeScenza, Inducted 2018

Swimming & Diving - 28 All-America honors, Honda Award recipient (2006), 4-time NCAA 200-yard butterfly title holder, 15 SEC Titles, four-year letterwinner
(https://georgiadogs.com/common/controls/image_handler.aspx?thumb_id=0&image_path=/images/2018/10/10/18coh_fountain.jpg)Hyleas Fountain, Inducted 2018

Track & Field - NCAA Champion in 2003 outdoor heptathlon, 2004 indoor long jump, 2004 outdoor heptathlon, 2004 outdoor long jump
(https://georgiadogs.com/common/controls/image_handler.aspx?thumb_id=0&image_path=/images/2018/10/10/18coh_poschner.jpg)George Poschner, Inducted 2018

Football - Three year letter winner, first-team All-America honors (1942), All-SEC first team (1942), Purple Heart, Bronze Star, and the Distinguished Service Cross for his actions in the Battle of the Bulge in WW2
(https://georgiadogs.com/common/controls/image_handler.aspx?thumb_id=0&image_path=/images/2018/10/10/18coh_ward.jpg)Hines Ward, Inducted 2018

Football - All-SEC first team (1997), set receptions in a bowl game with 12, drafted by the Steelers in the NFL Draft, earned MVP honors in Super Bowl 40 (2006), selected to four Pro Bowls


Title: Re: Ring of Honor
Post by: CWSooner on June 21, 2019, 10:48:00 PM
Seems to be a running back missing from the UGA list.

I don't think OU has a ring of honor or anything similar.  At least I can't find one.
Title: Re: Ring of Honor
Post by: Cincydawg on June 21, 2019, 11:56:59 PM
Eh, I suppose it's a thing, I have no objections to it.

Humans like lists in general.  They like groups.  They want a "real" national championship.  They argue over the Heisman and the AAs and whatever else, and none of it really matters.
Title: Re: Ring of Honor
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on June 22, 2019, 12:41:54 AM
It's all just for fun.
A UGA ring of honor without Herschel is like a chip without chocolate...it just don't make no sense.
Title: Re: Ring of Honor
Post by: Cincydawg on June 22, 2019, 07:06:02 AM
Yeah, I think a Football RofH in my reckoning would be more selective and not depend on graduation as a criterion especially today.  Very few of the elite level players stay four years in college, today.  Sinkwich and Trippi would be in, with Tarkenton and Bratkowsi, then some of the more recent players, not as many as listed, but in general I have a disdain for "lists".  I think "we" can get too caught up at times with who should be listed as what.  But, in the off season it's all fair game.

I prefer just to note that so and so had a great career and not worry about whether they should make some arbitrary list somewhere.  The criteria end up being too subjective for me.  Now, of course one can talk about statistics and make comparisons between players and then even argue that some stat is not a real indicator of anything, which often is a reasonable argument.  QB X threw for 11,000 yards in a career and QB Y threw for 18,000, but was in a pass happy offense that threw short passes with a lot of YAC etc.

I like when someone notes that a player you didn't expect had some amazing stat line somewhere.
Title: Re: Ring of Honor
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on June 22, 2019, 07:28:07 AM
This is just a "who's on your school's Mt. Rushmore", but bigger.  



I think Terrence Edwards leads UGA in all-time drops while wide open late in the WLOCP.
Title: Re: Ring of Honor
Post by: Cincydawg on June 22, 2019, 07:44:46 AM
One of my favorite lists back in the day was the "All Name List", especially in baseball.  I recall the battery was Biff Pocoroba catching and Bob Apodaka pitching.

And anyone named "Vernon "Catfish" Smith" should be in the Circle of Honor thingee on that basis alone.

UGA seems to put a lot of folks on ESPN or SEC N as commentator type folks.  I was channel surfing yesterday and left it on the Finebaum show for a few and had to chuckle.  He struggles in the off season more than we do around here, but his callers on the whole seem to me to be less erudite in general.

I can't imagine listening to that show for very long, or routinely.  I suppose on occasion something interesting gets said.
Title: Re: Ring of Honor
Post by: Hawkinole on June 22, 2019, 11:23:16 PM
Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on June 21, 2019, 04:38:42 AM
No Haden Fry?
Interesting question. In the ring of honor, for coaches, the order would be

Howard Jones #1. Jones coached two undefeated teams to 7-0 records. Defeated Yale and defeated Notre Dame.

Forest Evashevski #2.  Coached two Iowa teams to Rose Bowl wins. Finished #2 AP in 1960, and 1958 had a mythical national championship at least with one of the services that rated teams.

Hayden Fry #3. Three Rose Bowls (three defeats). Iowa would not be where it is at today without him, i.e. a winning record nearly every season, and a plus .500 record in the Big Ten since he became coach. This is a small population state with two FBS programs making it a challenging environment to have a winning program. It's arguable. The other two had better seasons, but their impact on the program was limited to the years in which they coached. 
Title: Re: Ring of Honor
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on June 22, 2019, 11:34:47 PM
It's fun to imagine if those small states with two programs were consolidated into one, how that fictional program would fare.  
Iowa/ISU
Ole Miss/MSU
Kansas/KSU
Those are the 3 smallest by population with two P5-type programs


Maybe Fry wins it in '85.  Maybe Snyder has a NC at KSU.  I definitely know some years an OM/MSU combo would have been a beast.
Title: Re: Ring of Honor
Post by: Cincydawg on June 23, 2019, 07:54:22 AM
Yup, Ohio State has a huge advantage over Iowa/Iowa State, aside from being Ohio State.  Dominate recruiting in a larger state with good HS football and you field talented teams.  UGA has some advantage though there are a lot of programs right across the border, and a lot of immigrants to GA are not especially UGA fans from birth obviously.

UF is in a much bigger state but has to fend off FSU and Miami, along with poachers like UGA and Auburn etc.  I'm guessing Alabama and Auburn have been the most successful in state pairing from a smaller state, by a fair measure.
Title: Re: Ring of Honor
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on June 23, 2019, 08:21:53 AM
CFB in KY has actually improved, since going from one P5 team to two. 
Title: Re: Ring of Honor
Post by: Cincydawg on June 23, 2019, 08:39:03 AM
When Cincinnati was a P5 program, their recruiting improved a lot.  Kids who would have gone to Miami and Ohio and Akron now had a good reason to choose UC.  Fickell may have them back to playing near that same level, maybe, but with an easier slate.  UC is positioned to get an invite to the P5 (B12?).

The same happened for UL.  They had a great reason to attract kids "overlooked" by Ohio State et al.

I'm beginning to think Stoops at UK is a solid coach.  We'll see how they do this year sans some key pieces.

Missouri is an interesting team, they are "it" for that state obviously.  (I think.)  If they are pretty good they could well be 8-0 going into Athens.  

Title: Re: Ring of Honor
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on June 23, 2019, 08:55:25 AM

Yeah, I forgot about Cincy's successful P5 stint. Not quite Bama-Auburn, but both OSU and UC were raking in P5 Conference Titles simultaneously there for a while. Definitely up there in the rankings of 2-P5 state runs (not including the 3+ P5 States, of course). 

Penn St and Pitt in the 70s comes to mind. All though they technically weren't in conferences. 
Title: Re: Ring of Honor
Post by: Cincydawg on June 23, 2019, 10:13:38 AM
Cincy needs a larger stadium and an invite to the B12 and they would be able to field pretty solid teams often as not.  There is a lot of talent in the state and nearby that is not quite OSU level, and OSU can't sign them all anyway.

Georgia Southern used to make hay with players UGA missed back in the 1AA days.
Title: Re: Ring of Honor
Post by: CWSooner on June 23, 2019, 11:28:52 AM
When the Big 12 has talked about expansion, I have hoped that Cincinnati would be added.  WVU needs a conference partner or two in the ETZ.  Cincinnati along with Louisville or one of the non-P5 Florida schools would have been a good combo.

I don't think that WVU will like being the conference outlier over the long haul.
Title: Re: Ring of Honor
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on June 23, 2019, 11:38:09 AM
Cincy has access to a big stadium when they need a big stadium. 

They have played OSU, Oklahoma, W Virginia, etc at the Bengals stadium over the years. 
Title: Re: Ring of Honor
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on June 24, 2019, 01:15:49 AM
Quote from: Brutus Buckeye on June 23, 2019, 11:38:09 AM
Cincy has access to a big stadium when they need a big stadium.

They have played OSU, Oklahoma, W Virginia, etc at the Bengals stadium over the years.
Okay, but they're not moving in there permanently, and their on-campus stadium is about 5 minutes old...
Title: Re: Ring of Honor
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on June 24, 2019, 01:17:30 AM
Quote from: CWSooner on June 23, 2019, 11:28:52 AM
When the Big 12 has talked about expansion, I have hoped that Cincinnati would be added.  WVU needs a conference partner or two in the ETZ.  Cincinnati along with Louisville or one of the non-P5 Florida schools would have been a good combo.

I don't think that WVU will like being the conference outlier over the long haul.
If the ACC doens't take WV first, after which the XII would be in a quagmire.  Those two will, eventually, have a battle to avoid becoming obsolete.  
Title: Re: Ring of Honor
Post by: Cincydawg on June 24, 2019, 07:25:45 AM
ACC fans dislike WVU because of "akademiks", but they are OK with UL.

CFB can be odd.
Title: Re: Ring of Honor
Post by: Cincydawg on June 24, 2019, 08:20:58 AM
Cincy is building a new soccer stadium down the street from Music Hall.  There was some concern the noise might interfere with concerts, so they did some tests.

The soccer team had been playing in Nippert, which was adequate to their needs.  But Cincy likes to build new stadia apparently.

I still think UC needs an on campus serious stadium, and Nippert is kind of hemmed in for expansion.  If they could get to say 50 K capacity, I think a P5 conference would go for them.  But may conference expansion is a done deal now.  I think there was panic back in the day.
Title: Re: Ring of Honor
Post by: Hawkinole on June 24, 2019, 09:49:16 AM
Quote from: Hawkinole on June 22, 2019, 11:23:16 PM
Interesting question. In the ring of honor, for coaches, the order would be

Howard Jones #1. Jones coached two undefeated teams to 7-0 records. Defeated Yale and defeated Notre Dame.

Forest Evashevski #2.  Coached two Iowa teams to Rose Bowl wins. Finished #2 AP in 1960, and 1958 had a mythical national championship at least with one of the services that rated teams.

Hayden Fry #3. Three Rose Bowls (three defeats). Iowa would not be where it is at today without him, i.e. a winning record nearly every season, and a plus .500 record in the Big Ten since he became coach. This is a small population state with two FBS programs making it a challenging environment to have a winning program. It's arguable. The other two had better seasons, but their impact on the program was limited to the years in which they coached.

I was thinking about this over the weekend and I think I would add Hayden Fry to the Ring of Honor. I am not sure Evy belongs there. Evy brought Iowa to the top of the mountain as a coach, and then retired at about age 39 or 40 from coaching, and as Athletic Director, was stingy with money for recruiting, and extremely difficult to work with for coaches, and that started the downward spiral of 19 consecutive years of nonwinning football for Iowa.

Meanwhile, Kirk Ferentz was a Hayden Fry assistant, who later worked as a D-I AA coach in Maine, and then for the Cleveland Browns/Ravens. Hayden Fry in a sense is responsible for, or contributed to, 40 mostly good seasons.
Title: Re: Ring of Honor
Post by: 847badgerfan on June 24, 2019, 09:59:40 AM
Quote from: Cincydawg on June 24, 2019, 08:20:58 AM
Cincy is building a new soccer stadium down the street from Music Hall.  There was some concern the noise might interfere with concerts, so they did some tests.

The soccer team had been playing in Nippert, which was adequate to their needs.  But Cincy likes to build new stadia apparently.

I still think UC needs an on campus serious stadium, and Nippert is kind of hemmed in for expansion.  If they could get to say 50 K capacity, I think a P5 conference would go for them.  But may conference expansion is a done deal now.  I think there was panic back in the day.
Which one? The B1G and SEC are non-starters, and the Big 12 already rejected them, despite WVU's endorsement.
Title: Re: Ring of Honor
Post by: 847badgerfan on June 24, 2019, 10:05:10 AM
Quote from: Hawkinole on June 24, 2019, 09:49:16 AM
I was thinking about this over the weekend and I think I would add Hayden Fry to the Ring of Honor. I am not sure Evy belongs there. Evy brought Iowa to the top of the mountain as a coach, and then retired at about age 39 or 40 from coaching, and as Athletic Director, was stingy with money for recruiting, and extremely difficult to work with for coaches, and that started the downward spiral of 19 consecutive years of nonwinning football for Iowa.

Meanwhile, Kirk Ferentz was a Hayden Fry assistant, who later worked as a D-I AA coach in Maine, and then for the Cleveland Browns/Ravens. Hayden Fry in a sense is responsible for, or contributed to, 40 mostly good seasons.
He should be added simply due to the coaching tree he created.

Title: Re: Ring of Honor
Post by: Cincydawg on June 24, 2019, 10:09:44 AM
Only the B12 could plausibly add Cincinnati, and probably one more, like Memphis.  I don't expect this any time soon at all, if ever.  I think the conferences panicked when a few expanded and the ACC in particular felt they were missing the boat and made some unwise and imprudent additions.  We don't have that panic today, so folks are using their heads more...

Title: Re: Ring of Honor
Post by: 847badgerfan on June 24, 2019, 10:25:42 AM
I'm pretty confident the ACC regrets adding Louisville, and also regrets bending over for Notre Dame.
Title: Re: Ring of Honor
Post by: FearlessF on June 24, 2019, 11:35:57 AM
do ya think Delany regrets any of the past 4 additions to the B!G?
Title: Re: Ring of Honor
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on June 24, 2019, 12:31:17 PM
Quote from: Cincydawg on June 24, 2019, 10:09:44 AM
Only the B12 could plausibly add Cincinnati, and probably one more, like Memphis.  I don't expect this any time soon at all, if ever.  I think the conferences panicked when a few expanded and the ACC in particular felt they were missing the boat and made some unwise and imprudent additions.  We don't have that panic today, so folks are using their heads more...
In a do-over, I'm not sure the B12 would want WVU again. That seemed at the time like a desperation play from them, and hasn't resulted in additional additions since that would even help it begin to make sense.

Quote from: 847badgerfan on June 24, 2019, 10:25:42 AM
I'm pretty confident the ACC regrets adding Louisville, and also regrets bending over for Notre Dame.
Agreed re: Louisville. Again it might have been a desperation play after Maryland jumped ship. I think at the time, Louisville was an up-and-comer in both football and basketball, but I'm not sure it was known how badly they were cheating to get there and now it's a black mark on the conference--without stellar academics or other intangibles to make up for it.

Not sure they regret Notre Dame. I think they recognize that Notre Dame in other sports and 5 football games a year is better for them than no Notre Dame at all. And their end goal, I'm assuming, is to dominate the alignment such that if Notre Dame is ever effectively forced into joining a conference, that the ACC will be first in line.

Quote from: FearlessF on June 24, 2019, 11:35:57 AM
do ya think Delany regrets any of the past 4 additions to the B!G?

I actually don't think so. To be honest, I think they were all good additions. Sure, Rutgers hasn't exactly held up their end of the bargain athletically, but it is a very strong university and fits in academically. On the other hand, there is a degree to which conference affiliation drives recruiting improvement and thus athletic improvement, so even a school like Rutgers should over time improve their athletics as the B1G will naturally draw more recruits than the Big East would have done. 

I believe that from top to bottom, academics does [and should] matter in these decisions. I would not support the B1G watering down academics just to secure a school that will bring in the eyeballs and the dollars athletically. It's easy to add a school; much harder to kick one out. If the athletics falter, there needs to be substance left behind. 
Title: Re: Ring of Honor
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on June 24, 2019, 12:34:14 PM
Quote from: Cincydawg on June 24, 2019, 07:25:45 AM
ACC fans dislike WVU because of "akademiks", but they are OK with UL.

CFB can be odd.
They can't be too concerned about academics, they let FSU in.  :57:
Title: Re: Ring of Honor
Post by: FearlessF on June 24, 2019, 01:15:04 PM
Quote from: bwarbiany on June 24, 2019, 12:31:17 PM
I believe that from top to bottom, academics does [and should] matter in these decisions. I would not support the B1G watering down academics just to secure a school that will bring in the eyeballs and the dollars athletically. It's easy to add a school; much harder to kick one out. If the athletics falter, there needs to be substance left behind.
well, UNL was a bit of a watering on academics.  Obviously, UNL's academics have improved since joining the B1G.

Athletics and/or academics can falter.  The support of the conference should help in both cases.
Title: Re: Ring of Honor
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on June 24, 2019, 02:45:14 PM
Quote from: FearlessF on June 24, 2019, 01:15:04 PM
well, UNL was a bit of a watering on academics.  Obviously, UNL's academics have improved since joining the B1G.

Athletics and/or academics can falter.  The support of the conference should help in both cases.
I wasn't sure the degree to which that was true. I know they were AAU right up until joining the B1G, and that it seemed as if there was some politics associated with losing it. So I didn't want to bring up UNL's academics.

But I'd say that UNL, who had been an AAU member for over 100 years, and who had also had decades-long athletic success compared very favorably to Louisville, who was not well regarded academically and was a flash in the pan athletically. 
Title: Re: Ring of Honor
Post by: Cincydawg on June 24, 2019, 02:54:44 PM
The AAU thing relates primarily to graduate studies and funding.  Some good undergrad schools are not AAU because of that.

I guess it's more important if the school can bring in money than be AAU.
Title: Re: Ring of Honor
Post by: Hawkinole on June 24, 2019, 06:56:38 PM
Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on June 24, 2019, 12:34:14 PM
They can't be too concerned about academics, they let FSU in.  :57:
Who knows how accurate US News and World Report is at ranking universities, but FSU is ranked #70, and my other school, Iowa has fallen to #89. I do not know what all the factors are that go into these rankings. Percentage of alumni who donate make up 5% (regardless of donation size) of the determination of U.S. News and is the only factor I read about because a few weeks ago some universities were caught cheating, i.e. lying to U.S. News about their percentage of alumni donating. I could project some of the factors for Iowa's fall, but it is outside the scope of a football forum.

Apparently Connecticut is not a proper match for the Big Twelve. I saw today they are returning to the Big East in all sports save football, and are looking for a conference only for football since the Big East does not compete in football. I cannot imagine how that will work for them if they find no football home.

Title: Re: Ring of Honor
Post by: FearlessF on June 24, 2019, 08:04:07 PM
Quote from: Hawkinole on June 24, 2019, 06:56:38 PM
Percentage of alumni who donate make up 5% (regardless of donation size) of the determination of U.S. News 

 I cannot imagine how that will work for them if they find no football home.



So, not performance based.

Plenty of opportunities for independants
Title: Re: Ring of Honor
Post by: Cincydawg on June 25, 2019, 08:05:13 AM
I think the US News thing is "decent" to a point, but only if you believe 40 and 50 and 60 are pretty much the same as rankings.  If you choose some school because it's 45 and you other choice was 52, I think you missed the point.  If you see one that is 15 and the others are 70 and higher, it probably is worth considering.  But, as noted, many of the factors are nonacademic.  You also might be interested in say Journalism and find a lower ranked school that has a highly regarded journalism department.

I think the top 25 or so are better than 75-100.  They still might not be better for YOU personally.  

One advantage of schools like Harvard and Yale are connections, who you meet while you are there, depending on your major.  It might help a lot in business or law, but not help much at all in chemistry or math (STEM degrees).  I had a boss once who had a PhD from Harvard.  He was a nice enough fellow, but "sleepy".  It looks good on your resume, but it may not mean much in the real world.
Title: Re: Ring of Honor
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on June 25, 2019, 08:58:52 AM
It was just a dig at the Noles, but people in each state/area know the pecking order.  People in FL know it's UF 1, FSU 3rd, Miami in the middle (private).  USF and UCF aren't going to show up on any lists, so they're further down still.



I could poke fun about academics with UGA, as Florida generally ranks about 10 spots ahead on these lists, but yeah, that's close enough for them to be basically even.  It'd be like being the older twin, by 4 minutes.  


But between Florida and FSU, there is a schism.
Title: Re: Ring of Honor
Post by: Cincydawg on June 25, 2019, 09:08:08 AM
Florida is usually viewed as better academically than UGA.  UGA gained a lot of ground because of the Hope Scholarship program and population growth.  When I attended, they didn't have such rankings but it was not especially good back when, with a few brighter spots.  When you bring in better students, you obviously can teach at a higher level.  I'd go by average SAT scores as a simple metric of "better students".  UGA is not AAU because they don't have strong graduate programs, generally.  The profs who knew me strongly advised I go somewhere else, but probably so they could be rid of me.

ND is an example of a very good university for undergrad but not grad, the privates tend to be that way except the really top level ones with huge endowments.

Emory U. here is rapidly expanding, buying up property to build more stuff near me.  There is already an Emory Hospital near me, and I'm told the expansion is related to health care stuff.
Title: Re: Ring of Honor
Post by: ELA on June 25, 2019, 09:39:15 AM
QB/HB/P John Piingel (36-38) - 2x All-American, still holds NCAA punting record for total yards in a season, with 4,138 yards in 1938, the same year he finished top 7 nationally in both yards per rush and completions per game, CF HOF

RB Clinton Jones (64-66) - 2x All-American, consensus All-American in 1966, CF HOF

RB Lorenzo White (84-87) - 2x Consensus All-American, first 2,000 yard rushing season in Big Ten history, 1987 Silver Football

WR Gene Washington (64-66) - 2x 1st team AA, finished top 20 in nation in receiving three times, leading the nation in yards per reception as a senior

WR Charles Rogers (01-02) - 2x 1st Team All-Big Ten, 2002 Unanimous All-American, 2002 Biletnikoff Award

OT/DT Don Coleman (49-51) - 1951 Consensus All-American, first black AA at MSU, that started the integration trend that led to MSU's dominance in the 50s and 60s, most stated that he would have won the '51 Outland Trophy over Jim Weatherall had he been white

OG Ed Bagdon (47-49) - 1949 Consensus All-American and Outland Trophy

DE Bubba Smith (64-66) - 2x Consensus All-American, AP DL of the Year in 1966, CF HOF

LB George Webster (64-66) - 2x Consensus All-American, CF HOF

LB Percy Snow (86-89) - one of only 4 players to win the Butkus and Lombardi Awards, CF HOF

LB Greg Jones (07-10) - 2x Consensus All-American, 3x 1st Team All-Big Ten, 2009 Big Ten Defensive POTY

CB Darqueze Dennard (10-13) - 2x 1st Team All-Big Ten, 2013 Unanimous All-American, 2013 Big Ten Defensive Player of the Year, 2013 Thorpe Award, 2013 Tatum Award

S Brad Van Pelt (70-72) - 2x Consensus All-American, first DB to win the Maxwell Award as the nation's best player, CF HOF

Duffy Daugherty (54-72) - won 4 claimed (1 or 2 real) national championships, 7 top 10 finishes in 12 years, two Rose Bowls, 2 Big Ten titles, national coach of the year in 1955 and 1965, CF HOF

Biggie Munn (47-53) - won two claimed (1 real) national championships, won a Big Ten title and the Rose Bowl in his lone year in the conference, went 54-9-2 at the school, going 35-2 over his final four years, finishing #8, #2, #1, #3 in the polls, and the national coach of the year in 1952, CF HOF
Title: Re: Ring of Honor
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on June 26, 2019, 06:25:13 AM
I don't recall Greg Jones....did he wear 53?  Hmmph.  I should know him.  More of an inside LB, not a big pash-rusher?  Leader type?  
Maybe his name is just generic, idk.  
Title: Re: Ring of Honor
Post by: ELA on June 26, 2019, 09:48:28 AM
Yeah, the name probably doesn't help.  He was the first player after the John L. Smith/Dantonio transition that actually made me believe we were going to take defense seriously for a change, now I wish we knew how to score points.
Title: Re: Ring of Honor
Post by: Cincydawg on June 26, 2019, 11:24:26 AM
I was musing that perhaps a RoH concept should include names recognizable to fans of other teams as one criterion.  This could bias the selection to players who had NFL careers of note of course, and more recent history.  I'd go with (to see if these names are generally know):

Trippi
Sinkwich
Tarkenton
Bratkowski
Patton
Woerner
Stanfill
Herschel
Hoage 
Hines Ward

I'm guessing a couple names there won't be recognized by some of youse guys.