CFB51 College Football Fan Community

The Power Five => Big Ten => Topic started by: LittlePig on October 09, 2017, 03:17:31 PM

Title: Idea for division cross-overs
Post by: LittlePig on October 09, 2017, 03:17:31 PM
8 year cycle.
8 X 3 = 24 games each cycle
Each team should play the following teams these number of times in 8 years

Purdue should play...
Indy 8 times
Mich 2
MSU 2
OSU 2
PSU 2
Rut 4
MD 4
Total 24

Iowa should play....
MSU 4 times
Mich 4
PSU 4
OSU 4
Rut 4
Indy 2
MD 2

Minn should play....
Mich 4 times
MSU 4
OSU 4
PSU 4
Indy 2
Rut 2
MD 4

Wisc should play....
OSU 4 times
Mich 4
MSU 4
PSU 4
Indy 2
Rut 2
MD 4

Neb should play....
PSU 4 times
Mich 4
MSU 4
OSU 4
Indy 2
Rut 4
MD 2

NW should play...
Mich 4 times
MSU 4
OSU 2
PSU 2
Rut 4
Indy 4
MD 4

ILL should play...
Mich 2 times
MSU 2
OSU 4
PSU 4
Indy 4
Rut 4
MD 4
Short 2

Indy should play....
Pur 8 times
ILL 4
NW 4
Wisc 2
MINN 2
Iowa 2
Neb 2

MD should play...
Pur 4 times
ILL 4
NW 4
Wisc 4
Minn 4
Iowa 2
Neb 2

Rut should play....
Pur 4 times
ILL 4
NW 4
Wisc 2
Minn 2
Iowa 4
Neb 4

PSU should play...
Pur 2 times
ILL 4
NW 2
Wisc 4
Minn 4
Iowa 4
Neb 4

OSU should play....
Pur 2 times
ILL 4
NW 2
Wisc 4
MINN 4
IOWA 4
NEB 4

MSU should play....
Pur 2 times
ILL 2
NW 4
Wisc 4
Minn 4
Iowa 4
Neb 4

Mich should play...
Pur 2 times
ILL 2
NW 4
Wisc 4
Minn 4
Iowa 4
Neb 4

Title: Re: Idea for division cross-overs
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on October 10, 2017, 12:51:48 PM
I'm trying to figure out the method to your madness, here, while giving the benefit of the doubt that all your math adds up.

Inasmuch as I can tell, it would appear that you are suggesting that the good teams in one division should play the good teams in the other division more often than they play the bad teams in the other division.

And that the bad teams in one division should be playing the bad teams in the other division more often then they play the good teams in the other division.

All while making the occasional Trophy game exception, where those rivalries get 4 games every 8 years instead of 2, regardless of their stature within their division; with the Bucket being the only fixed crossover that remains on the annual.

Am I warm?
Title: Re: Idea for division cross-overs
Post by: LittlePig on October 11, 2017, 07:43:11 AM
I'm trying to figure out the method to your madness, here, while giving the benefit of the doubt that all your math adds up.

Inasmuch as I can tell, it would appear that you are suggesting that the good teams in one division should play the good teams in the other division more often than they play the bad teams in the other division.

And that the bad teams in one division should be playing the bad teams in the other division more often then they play the good teams in the other division.

All while making the occasional Trophy game exception, where those rivalries get 4 games every 8 years instead of 2, regardless of their stature within their division; with the Bucket being the only fixed crossover that remains on the annual.

Am I warm?
You got it.

Except the original idea i had was that you pick 5 teams you play 4 times and 2 treams you play 2 times.

But then it got skewed because Purdue and Indiana need to play 8 times.  So purdue and Indiana ended up being the teams that lots of teams played twice.

Yes it was intentionally set up so that the top 4 from each division all played each other 4 times while the bottom 3 would play each other 4 times.  Its debatable if Minn or NW is the current  #4 in the west, but for rival reasons, its easier to call Minn #4 and NW #5.  

My other concern, although I did not spell it out, would be that the top 4 teams from the west would rotate playing the top 4 teams from the east so that they would always play 2 of the top 4 every year.

My motivation was to avoid schedules like Wisconsin's last year where they got MSU, Mich and OSU all in 1 year.  Then Wisc only gets Mich this year.  Or Iowa's schedule this year where it gets PSU, MSU and OSU.  Then next year only gets PSU.
Title: Re: Idea for division cross-overs
Post by: LittlePig on October 11, 2017, 08:01:46 AM
At any rate, I suspect that King Barry would promptly put the kibosh on this idea.
Last year he was vocally grouchy about having to play MSU, Michigan and OSU.
So if he were presented with a plan that would have him playing those three teams (plus PSU) twice as often as the cupcakes that he would prefer to be feasting on... well, I'm afraid that the poor guy might have a stroke.

I admit I did not do a good job of spelling it out,  but this plan set it up so  that the top 4 teams from the west would rotate playing the top 4 teams from the east so that they would always play 2 of the top 4 every year.

My motivation was to avoid schedules like Wisconsin's last year where they got MSU, Mich and OSU all in 1 year.  Then Wisc only gets Mich this year.  Or Iowa's schedule this year where it gets PSU, MSU and OSU.  Then next year only gets PSU.
Title: Re: Idea for division cross-overs
Post by: 847badgerfan on October 11, 2017, 08:03:20 AM
Wisconsin wants to play Michigan, OSU, MSU and PSU every year. Just not all in a row - no team would want that. Spread it out a little and it's all good.
Title: Re: Idea for division cross-overs
Post by: TresselownsUM on October 11, 2017, 02:48:04 PM
is northwestern still in the Big 10? I can't remember, my buckeyes haven't played them since Bush was a president, or at least it feels like it
Title: Re: Idea for division cross-overs
Post by: 847badgerfan on October 11, 2017, 03:45:24 PM
Yep, it sucks not seeing teams for that many years.

Michigan will show up in Madison this year for the first time since 2009.
Title: Re: Idea for division cross-overs
Post by: MarqHusker on October 11, 2017, 03:49:28 PM
I like the idea of a draft, but that's because I think playoff seeding (for all sports) should also be a drafting format.
It would no doubt be complicated, but very interesting.
Title: Re: Idea for division cross-overs
Post by: FearlessF on October 11, 2017, 09:34:42 PM
Big Jim is going to do what the networks tell him to do
Title: Re: Idea for division cross-overs
Post by: utee94 on October 11, 2017, 10:32:07 PM
Yeah, no offense, but this idea blows.

Crank all conferences back to ten teams max.

Then let them play every other team in their conference.

You're welcome.
Title: Re: Idea for division cross-overs
Post by: MichiFan87 on October 11, 2017, 10:36:00 PM
It's a decent idea but obviously unlikely to ever be implemented.

Same goes for my idea to go to 13 games total and 10 conference games while eliminating CCGs and divisions. Let each school have at least 2 (and I'd argue for 4) protected rivals and rotate through the rest. Each school still gets 3 non-con games and only needs 1 guarantee game to get to 7 home games, with the other two potentially being alternating home / away series.
Title: Re: Idea for division cross-overs
Post by: LittlePig on October 11, 2017, 10:49:11 PM
For example, Wisc could have a schedule like this

Year 1:  @PSU. Mich,  @MD
Year 2.  PSU, @Mich,  MD
Year 3:  @OSU, MSU, @Rut
Year 4:  OSU, @MSU, Rut
Year 5:  @PSU. Mich,  @Indy
Year 6.  PSU, @Mich,  Indy
Year 7:  @OSU, MSU, @MD
Year 8:  OSU, @MSU, MD
Title: Re: Idea for division cross-overs
Post by: 847badgerfan on October 12, 2017, 06:57:29 AM
I dunno. UW has been playing IU on a somewhat regular basis since 1907. 60 games in 110 years. I'd like to see them remain on the schedule at that clip - so every other year I guess.

UTee is close. Every conference dials back to 11 and plays 10 conference games and no CCG.


You're welcome.
Title: Re: Idea for division cross-overs
Post by: utee94 on October 12, 2017, 09:03:04 AM
11 teams is stupid.  It was the Big Ten for decades.  It was just fine then.

9 conference games in a full roundrobin, 3 OOC games, for a nice 12-game regular season schedule.  

Then the postseason can do whatever it wants, I largely ignore it these days.

You're welcome.
Title: Re: Idea for division cross-overs
Post by: ohio1317 on October 12, 2017, 10:54:27 AM
I like the creativity but not a fan of any plan that has us play anyone less than we already are.  I hate the "parity based scheduling" already that has us playing Nebraska 6 years in a row, but leaves us only playing everyone else in the other division 2 out of 6 years.  Would much rather dump that and go to a straight rotation even if it leaves schedules uneven some years (which they'll find a way to be anyway) outside of locking Purdue-Indiana.
Title: Re: Idea for division cross-overs
Post by: 847badgerfan on October 12, 2017, 11:06:33 AM
11 teams is stupid.  It was the Big Ten for decades.  It was just fine then.

9 conference games in a full roundrobin, 3 OOC games, for a nice 12-game regular season schedule.  

Then the postseason can do whatever it wants, I largely ignore it these days.

You're welcome.
You are forgetting one thing. Without CCG's, all teams would play 13.

11 teams in a conference => 10 conference games. Plus 3 OOC games.

With this model, you could have Lincoln and Columbia (or Aggy) back and grab Arky, all while dumping Bayor, obviously, and letting WVU go back East to play its old friends.

You're welcome.
Title: Re: Idea for division cross-overs
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on October 12, 2017, 11:17:23 AM
Going back to 11 ain't happening.
Going back to 10 ain't happening.

Mismatching good vs good and bad vs bad ain't happening.

The only acceptable idea going forward is the 16-team conference, 4 pods of 4 scheme.  That way, you play everyone else in the conference either
a - at least every other year, or
b - home-and-home every 4 years

This whole thing isn't going backwards, as much as we'd love it to.  But the pod system actually works - playing the 3 in your pod every year, then 2 from each of the others every other or every 4 years (depending if it's important you play home and away in consecutive years or not).  Either way, each 4-year class of players will get to play everyone else in the big, bloated conference.

Isn't that what matters?
Title: Re: Idea for division cross-overs
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on October 12, 2017, 11:18:54 AM
So what 2 schools get added and what are the 4 pods (the teams you play every year)?

KU & MIZ?
UVA & UNC?
SU & BC?

Title: Re: Idea for division cross-overs
Post by: 847badgerfan on October 12, 2017, 11:19:53 AM
Going back to 11 ain't happening.
Going back to 10 ain't happening.

Mismatching good vs good and bad vs bad ain't happening.

The only acceptable idea going forward is the 16-team conference, 4 pods of 4 scheme.  That way, you play everyone else in the conference either
a - at least every other year, or
b - home-and-home every 4 years

This whole thing isn't going backwards, as much as we'd love it to.  But the pod system actually works - playing the 3 in your pod every year, then 2 from each of the others every other or every 4 years (depending if it's important you play home and away in consecutive years or not).  Either way, each 4-year class of players will get to play everyone else in the big, bloated conference.

Isn't that what matters?
Let's see what happens in 2025, when TV's no longer matter.
Title: Re: Idea for division cross-overs
Post by: Temp430 on October 12, 2017, 11:22:53 AM
The Big Ten does not need divisions.  Also, do not need a championship game; it's over-rated and I'd rather see the Big Ten play 10 conference games.   Rivals can play their game every year and others team rotate off and on schedule.
Title: Re: Idea for division cross-overs
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on October 12, 2017, 11:25:34 AM
Example, for clarity (this assumes the B10 adds Missouri and Kansas):

UMD
RUT
PSU
OSU

UM
MSU
IU
PU

MIN
WIS
NW
ILL

IOWA
UNL
KU
MIZ


So say I'm Ohio State....my 9 conference games per year are:
2018
Maryland, @Rutgers, Penn St, @Michigan, Indiana, @Minnesota, Northwestern, @Iowa, Kansas
2019
@Maryland, Rutgers, @Penn St, MSU, @Purdue, Wisconsin,@ Illinois, Nebraska, @Missouri
2020
Maryland, @Rutgers, Penn St, Michigan, @Indiana, Minnesota, @Northwestern, Iowa, @Kansas
2021
@Maryland, Rutgers, @Penn St, @MSU, Purdue, @Wisconsin, Illinois, @Nebraska, Missouri

I chose my preferred method, of not having the home-and-homes on consecutive years.  This way, each recruiting class gets to play everyone else every 2 years, and will play everyone home and away in their 4 years.
Title: Re: Idea for division cross-overs
Post by: 847badgerfan on October 12, 2017, 11:39:13 AM
You can't split up Minnie, Iowa and UW. Just can't. Won't happen again. Add UNL to that pod.

You guys get to keep Mizzou while Kansas looks for a home.

I guess Virginia would be a good add. Probably GT too. Or OU and UT.
Title: Re: Idea for division cross-overs
Post by: ohio1317 on October 12, 2017, 12:15:04 PM
I dont like 16 even with pods. Like the fact you remove a few locked games, but conferences already too big and disjointed.
Title: Re: Idea for division cross-overs
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on October 12, 2017, 12:35:14 PM
Yeah, I'm extremely grateful that Nebraska stepped up just in time for us to dodge the Mizzou bullet.

Keep that trash as far from the Big Ten as possible. 
Title: Re: Idea for division cross-overs
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on October 12, 2017, 11:13:26 PM
I dont like 16 even with pods. Like the fact you remove a few locked games, but conferences already too big and disjointed.
Right, well.....it isn't going to shrink.  At least with the pods, you play everyone every other year.  Better than how it is now, actually.
Title: Re: Idea for division cross-overs
Post by: LittlePig on October 13, 2017, 09:08:48 AM
Example, for clarity (this assumes the B10 adds Missouri and Kansas):

UMD
RUT
PSU
OSU

UM
MSU
IU
PU

MIN
WIS
NW
ILL

IOWA
UNL
KU
MIZ


I chose my preferred method, of not having the home-and-homes on consecutive years.  This way, each recruiting class gets to play everyone else every 2 years, and will play everyone home and away in their 4 years.
Because of the Iowa-Minn-Wisc needing to play each year and ILL-NW, etc.  Its probably better to just have 2 east-west 8-team divisions.
Title: Re: Idea for division cross-overs
Post by: 847badgerfan on October 13, 2017, 09:41:53 AM
10 conference games would solve a lot of problems too.

I'd rather see (almost) any B1G team come into Madison over Florida Atlantic or something.
Title: Re: Idea for division cross-overs
Post by: FearlessF on October 13, 2017, 09:58:17 AM
11 teams and 10 conference games would solve everything