CFB51 College Football Fan Community
The Power Five => Big Ten => Topic started by: MrNubbz on May 27, 2019, 09:35:26 AM
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To the men and women of our military who have as Abraham Lincoln so eloquently put it "gave the last full measure of devotion" - Thank You and Godspeed
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I did not see this earlier. I would like to present a brief memorial for my great uncle. I did not have the privilege to meet him. Nazis killed him in the Battle of Hurtgen Forest while he stood against them for freedom.
I present, Marvin P. Roeder, standing here with his sister, my Great Aunt "Mitt" Millicent Roeder. My dad's sled can also be seen.
Dad says he thinks Marvin was having the time of his life in the military. He was 37-years old, and single. He was traveling the country and then waiting in England to go into the field of battle. He was in the battle field just a few days, when the time of his life, ended. God bless him.
(https://i.imgur.com/S1i4dk8.jpg)
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My grandfather's parents died within 6-months of each other when he was 16 in the early 1920s. Grandpa being the oldest child was tasked with the impossible task of raising 3 of his siblings; the fourth and youngest sibling was 1-year old and was sent to live with an aunt; she did okay -- she eventually married a man who became the CEO of Hormel. Until grandpa died in 1979 he, and my grandmother would say, it seems like yesterday when they lost Marvin. I could not understand then because yesterday was a long time ago -- before I was born. Grandpa was very close to three of his siblings, since they grew up as orphans and he raised them.
This is the announcement of doom that would floor you, and which you hope never to receive:
(https://i.imgur.com/wSTZZyX.jpg)
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Grandpa carried the telegram in is wallet for decades, and then a few years before he died, he gave it to me to carry forward. I am carrying it forward.
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that is what Memorial Day is about
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One of the difficult things in the movie "We were Soldiers" was the scenes about telegrams being delivered (was in the book as well of course). The military corrected that one at least. It can be a strain when a lot of men from one area are killed in the same event, as happened in Cincinnati in 2005 when 14 Marines were killed, 5 of them from the Cincy area. The local Marine reserve communications I&I staff had to respond. They had about 5 minutes of "training". They sent two to each parent's known address, which meant they had to provide 8 separate teams. There was nothing written, just verbal. That Marine group was overwhelmed obviously, and Marines from New Orleans were sent up to assist, and ironically the reverse happened in a few weeks and the hurricane hit NO.
And of course there is no "good way" to deliver such news.
I may have mentioned that my Dad was awarded a Purple Heart for WW II. He gave it to me to keep around 2000 or so. He had to work to get the award for some reason, records lost in the St. Louis fire was part of it, he kept writing to Congress about it, and finally got it around 1990. I know he had a Purple Heart tag on his car and it's on his grave marker.
I don't know of a best way to treat Memorial Day other than spending time with those who mean something to you and letting them know they do. Days of reflection can be a reminder to say stuff we probably should say more often while we still can. Vita brevis.
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From the Font of All Wisdom and Knowledge:
Thirty-four Virginia National Guard soldiers from the town of Bedford were part of D-Day. Nineteen of them were killed during the first day of the invasion, and four more died during the rest of the Normandy campaign. The town and the "Bedford Boys" had proportionately suffered the greatest losses of the campaign, thus inspiring the United States Congress to establish the D-Day memorial in Bedford.
The Bedford Boys included three sets of brothers: twins Roy and Ray Stevens, with Ray killed during the landing while Roy survived, Clyde and Jack Powers, with Jack killed and Clyde wounded but surviving, and Bedford and Raymond Hoback, both killed. The losses by the soldiers from Bedford were chronicled in the best-selling book The Bedford Boys by Alex Kershaw, and helped inspire the movie Saving Private Ryan. The movie's director, Steven Spielberg, helped fund the memorial, including funding for the creation of the Arnold M. Spielberg Theater, in honor of his father, a World War II veteran.
That level of loss from one small town is almost inconceivable.
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The Bedford Boys included three sets of brothers: twins Roy and Ray Stevens, with Ray killed during the landing while Roy survived, Clyde and Jack Powers, with Jack killed and Clyde wounded but surviving, and Bedford and Raymond Hoback, both killed. The losses by the soldiers from Bedford were chronicled in the best-selling book The Bedford Boys by Alex Kershaw, and helped inspire the movie Saving Private Ryan. The movie's director, Steven Spielberg, helped fund the memorial, including funding for the creation of the Arnold M. Spielberg Theater, in honor of his father, a World War II veteran.
That level of loss from one small town is almost inconceivable.
I thought they did away with keeping units together from the same area in the Civil War.A hot day in the field and there's no young men to come home to.I'm aware of the Bedford Boys.But I had read Saving Private Ryan was based on the Neilands who were friends of Skip Mucks who was a friend of Don Malarkeys in Band of Brothers from Steven Ambose/Speilberg
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I thought they did away with keeping units together from the same area in the Civil War.A hot day in the field and there's no young men to come home to.I'm aware of the Bedford Boys.But I had read Saving Private Ryan was based on the Neilands who were friends of Skip Mucks who was a friend of Don Malarkeys in Band of Brothers from Steven Ambose/Speilberg
Not exactly. We have a museum in Waterloo, Iowa to this effect, since the policy was either not enforced, or loosely enforced, and five brothers perished together in WW II: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sullivan_brothers (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sullivan_brothers) (five Sullivan brothers).
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Reserve units are naturally going to be manned by folks from the same general area, which can be 2-3 stateswide.
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I remember in August 2005 the Brook Park unit got hit hard also like the Lucky Lima.I know BP Unit had soldiers from across the state.
*https://www.nytimes.com/2005/08/04/us/iraq-casualties-hit-hard-in-a-suburb-of-cleveland.html (https://www.nytimes.com/2005/08/04/us/iraq-casualties-hit-hard-in-a-suburb-of-cleveland.html)*
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That was the same event. A "track" was destroyed by a large IED and 14 Marines were KIA, all but 2 from Lima 3/25. The two were part of the track crew. One was apparently blown clear somehow. Lima Company is actually based near Columbus at Rickenbacker. The larger regiment is in Brook Park and comprises three companies plus staff, Kilo, India, and Lima companies. Kilo and India for whatever reason were not "in the field" nearly as much as Lima.
Lima had 23 KIA and 59 Purple Hearts out of 186 deployed. This is their story.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cRMCjzTYbY0 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cRMCjzTYbY0)
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Not exactly. We have a museum in Waterloo, Iowa to this effect, since the policy was either not enforced, or loosely enforced, and five brothers perished together in WW II: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sullivan_brothers (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sullivan_brothers) (five Sullivan brothers).
The armed forces implemented the policy after the loss of the Sullivan brothers, who had all enlisted explicitly to serve with each other. There have been two U.S. Navy destroyers named USS The Sullivans. One is a museum ship in Buffalo and the other is still in service.
I don't know of any such policy from the Civil War. In fact, the volunteer regiments that made up most of the Civil War armies, were built on local enlistments.
It's why most Civil War memorials are about states and state units.
And the fact that WWII was so different is why the WWII memorial in Washington, DC, makes no sense. We didn't fight WWII as states. Even the National Guard units got replacements from everywhere once they were federalized.
The Bedford Boys were in the 116th Infantry Regiment, 29th Infantry ("Blue and Gray") Division. That division was made up of two Maryland NG regiments (the 115th and 175th) and the one Virginia NG regiment. 6 June 1944 was its first day in combat in World War II, which is why its components were still largely manned by guys from the same states. The 116th was actually attached to the 1st Infantry Division ("the Big Red One") for the initial assault.
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I believe we're coming up on 75 tomorrow. It is amazing that many of them are still living 75 years after, I suppose they were around 20 at the time.
I have visited Omaha twice in my life, and hope to go back again. The cemetery is extremely moving. The beaches are very quiet now, some vacation houses here and there, and some remaining German fortifications.
Obama of course was assaulted by the !st Division which had experience from North Africa and the 29th Division which was "green". The 29th acquitted itself quite well as I recall. The movie "The Big Red One" was interesting I think, included Luke Skywalker.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I_A0ZvUIDfE (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I_A0ZvUIDfE)
Lee Marvin left school at 18 to enlist in the United States Marine Corps Reserve (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Marine_Corps_Reserve) on August 12, 1942. He served with the 4th Marine Division (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/4th_Marine_Division_(United_States)) in the Pacific Theater (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pacific_War) during World War II (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_War_II).[6] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lee_Marvin#cite_note-6) While serving as a member of "I" Company, 3rd Battalion (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/3rd_Battalion_24th_Marines), 24th Marines (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/24th_Marine_Regiment_(United_States)), 4th Marine Division (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/4th_Marine_Division), he was wounded in action (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wounded_in_action) on June 18, 1944, during the assault on Mount Tapochau (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mount_Tapochau) in the Battle of Saipan (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Saipan), during which most of his company were casualties.[7] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lee_Marvin#cite_note-7) He was hit by machine gun (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Machine_gun) fire, which severed his sciatic nerve (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sciatic_nerve),[8] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lee_Marvin#cite_note-8) and then was hit again in the foot by a sniper.[9] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lee_Marvin#cite_note-cometoverhollywood.com-9) After over a year of medical treatment in naval hospitals, Marvin was given a medical discharge with the rank of private first class (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Private_First_Class#United_States) (he had been a corporal years earlier but had been demoted after causing trouble)[9] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lee_Marvin#cite_note-cometoverhollywood.com-9) in 1945 at Philadelphia.[10] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lee_Marvin#cite_note-snopes-10)
Marvin's military awards include: the Purple Heart Medal (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Purple_Heart_Medal), the Presidential Unit Citation (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Presidential_Unit_Citation_(United_States)), the American Campaign Medal (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Campaign_Medal), the Asiatic-Pacific Campaign Medal (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asiatic-Pacific_Campaign_Medal), and the World War II Victory Medal (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_War_II_Victory_Medal_(United_States)), Combat Action Ribbon (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Combat_Action_Ribbon).
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There was once an urban legend that Lee Marvin said on The Tonight Show that Bob Keeshan ("Captain Kangaroo") had saved his life on Iwo Jima.
But Marvin had been medically evacuated after being wounded on Saipan 8 or so months before the Iwo Jima invasion. And Keeshan didn't turn 18 until 1945. He enlisted, but never saw combat.
Perhaps he would have participated in the invasion of Japan, had we not dropped the atomic bombs.
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It interesting how many movie stars played significant roles in the war in terms of seeing combat. John Wayne of course did not. George McGovern was a decorated B-17 pilot who flew quite a few missions, but he never made that part of his campaign that I recall. My Dad's brother served on a mine sweeper as a photographer. He was 16 years older than my dad and almost too old to go.
I happened to rewatch The Longest Day a month or so back, it's not a bad movie at all. I won't be watching Saving Private Ryan though.
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CD: I think McGovern flew B-24s in 15th Air Force. He was featured in Stephen Ambrose's book The Wild Blue.
The B-24s was a newer design and could carry a heavier bomb load farther than a B-17 could.
But the B-24 was harder to fly, and could not maintain tight formations like the B-17 could. It also had a lower service ceiling. It was also less durable in terms of absorbing battle damage. All of which made it easier prey than the B-17 for Lufwaffe fighters and flak.
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Yeah, thanks, my Dad was in a B-24. Davis wing.
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CD: I think McGovern flew B-24s in 15th Air Force. He was featured in Stephen Ambrose's book The Wild Blue.
The B-24s was a newer design and could carry a heavier bomb load farther than a B-17 could.
But the B-24 was harder to fly, and could not maintain tight formations like the B-17 could. It also had a lower service ceiling. It was also less durable in terms of absorbing battle damage. All of which made it easier prey than the B-17 for Lufwaffe fighters and flak.
B-24 was the elixir for the U-boats in the 300 mile dead zone in the middle of the Atlantic that neither the USN/RN/USCG could cover.The liberator evidently had the the long range to cross the pond
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I believe we're coming up on 75 tomorrow. It is amazing that many of them are still living 75 years after, I suppose they were around 20 at the time.
They had quite a few vets on world news tonite and they definitely still had their faculties.One vet from the 101 did another jump from the same area over where he landed in '44
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They had quite a few vets on world news tonite and they definitely still had their faculties.One vet from the 101 did another jump from the same area over where he landed in '44
That jump is something for a man who must be at least in his early 90s. I would be cautious about doing that now, and I'm a lot younger than he is. You hit the ground hard, like jumping off the roof of a house. 18-year-old kids sometimes sprain an ankle or worse if they don't execute the parachute landing fall (PLF) correctly. 90-year-old bones tend to be pretty brittle.
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The Plane That Led the Normandy Invasion (https://www.popularmechanics.com/military/aviation/a27699439/d-day-75th-anniversary/?source=nl&utm_source=nl_pop&utm_medium=email&date=060519&src=nl&utm_campaign=17110872)
Special D-Day Edition from Military.com (https://www.military.com/history/d-day.html?ESRC=insiders.nl)
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My first law related job out of Florida State University law school was working for federal district judge Donald E. O'Brien in Sioux City, Iowa. He was a bombardier on a B-17. I think most of these men did not return state-side. It was a risky job.
I attended his funeral and of course there were a lot of dignitaries. But his family still remembered me from 30-years earlier, and did not leave me out. I am looking at his obituary, as I write. He flew 30-missions and became lead bombardier, and had military awards. As lead bombardier, he released his bombs, then the others in other bombers released theirs, based on his queue. If I recall correctly, he was flying over and dropping bombs on Germany. I didn't ask too many questions about his military service; I knew it could be a sensitive area.
https://siouxcityjournal.com/news/local/obituaries/donald-e-o-brien/article_bc155169-74e3-51a5-af9a-7e92bb7457d4.html (https://siouxcityjournal.com/news/local/obituaries/donald-e-o-brien/article_bc155169-74e3-51a5-af9a-7e92bb7457d4.html)
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My Uncle was shot down behind German lines in a B-17
spent some time in a POW camp
didn't speak about it often
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That jump is something for a man who must be at least in his early 90s. I would be cautious about doing that now, and I'm a lot younger than he is. You hit the ground hard, like jumping off the roof of a house. 18-year-old kids sometimes sprain an ankle or worse if they don't execute the parachute landing fall (PLF) correctly. 90-year-old bones tend to be pretty brittle.
story I heard this morning said the guy was 97
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My Dad would talk about the war a bit when I was young, like 8 or so. I was fascinated, and of course embued with movies about war.
I'm glad to have his stories. He had a friend who was flight lieutenant that my Dad greatly admired, he was one of the three who survived and kept the other two afloat as he was not badly injured. He later took an R&R flight to NA and the DC-3 was lost somewhere never seen again. His name was Isadore Lamica.
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story I heard this morning said the guy was 97
There's video of it, and it wasn't with a military chute--it was a skydive, not a military jump. And even so, the landing looked a little rough. My immediate thought was to worry about how his bones managed the fall.
Here's an article (https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2019/06/06/id-go-up-do-it-all-again-veterans-their-mid-s-parachute-over-normandy-years-after-d-day/?utm_term=.e17b44de1692) with an embedded video.
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Is he alright he appeared to o be after the landing
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I don't know where else to ask this, but it's a serious question from kind of out in left field: why don't we turn on Saudi Arabia and bomb them to hell?
1- are we as reliant on their oil as we seem to be?
2- who are their strong allies in the middle east, as they've been bedfellows with us for so long?
3- we bitch and moan seemingly about everyone else's civil rights violations, but have given them a free pass - what if we didn't?
They're not some traditional rival like Iran or whoever, but what if we just attacked them? Why not attack them (after publicly ending the friendship, pulling back financial ties, and making our case with the rest of the world)?
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The US is basically internally sufficient on oil today. The world oil market is very dependent on SA of course, so if they ceased to exist the price would go up sharply.
I don't personally think we should bomb or otherwise attack a country based on how they manage their internal affairs. I don't think we should cozy up to thugs either.
SA is a covert "friend of Israel" and enemy of the Soviet Union, so there is that, albeit foreign policy from 1980.
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My Uncle was shot down behind German lines in a B-17
spent some time in a POW camp
didn't speak about it often
I had an uncle that was in a German POW camp too. Also, a friend who was in the greatest generation and is still alive, a former U. S. Attorney for the Northern District of Iowa, captured by the Germans who had been interviewed by media outlets a few years ago, and he has written extensively about his experiences. My uncle and my friend grew up in Maquoketa, a town of 6,000. They were not acquainted during the war or before. They met in Arkansas. Many POWs who were captured by Germans were sent to Arkansas after the war to decompress and they grew up in this small town separated by a few years and became acquainted with each other at this "camp" in Arkansas.
My Uncle Wes was about 6'3" and a huge man. My friend was 6'4". They were both physical specimens when I knew them but bony after their POW status.
We were not supposed to ask questions about his service as it was too sensitive, when I was young. But, at his wake and funeral his grandchildren spoke about his captivity. Possibly school projects. I think he needed an outlet and wanted to talk about these things. Unabashed little children help heal us.