Fans of Purdue and the two Michigan Schools can join us in a week, or hopefully two.I feel pretty good about MSU's chance to make it through next weekend all things considered
The other 11 fanbases can get a head start.
Fans of Purdue and the two Michigan Schools can join us in a week, or hopefully two.and yet only fans of TT'sUN are posting here. 😈
The other 11 fanbases can get a head start.
and yet only fans of TT'sUN are posting here. 😈I'm not sure what TT'sUN is but I'm putting a vote in for TTUN > TSUN. I had to laugh last week when I realized that there actually is a TSUN, Tennessee State University - Nashville.
Tim Miles firedI'd like to know what their plan is. Maybe they think Dana Altman will come home??
I'd like to know what their plan is. Maybe they think Dana Altman will come home??Hoiberg is the name still out there. For some reason.
Good riddance.A little strong there?
A little strong there?I didn't appreciate his tweets, and the ones he "liked", that were disparaging of Wisconsin's players who actually were getting minutes. Don't need that in Madison. So, yeah. Bye.
T-Rank projections for 2020 atm. Numbers are pretty high on the BIG again.Next year projections?
http://barttorvik.com/trankpre.php (http://barttorvik.com/trankpre.php)
(https://i.imgur.com/JP1W6mX.png)
I didn't appreciate his tweets, and the ones he "liked", that were disparaging of Wisconsin's players who actually were getting minutes. Don't need that in Madison. So, yeah. Bye.Hmm. Didn’t see that. Oh well. Wanted that to work out.
Word on the street is Bob Knight isn't doing so hot.What does this mean?
Nate Oats leaving Buffalo for Alabama. Great hire for them IMOThe guy started out has a hire to get a recruit. Quite a rise
My first prediction for next year: CJ Walker will not enjoy his first visit to Mackey Arena. I expect much pureed tomato products to be referenced.?
Nate Oats leaving Buffalo for Alabama. Great hire for them IMOAgree.
As in, his health is starting to fail.The pbp guy, Don Fischer made a comment about this a few weeks ago and local media was buzzing and running stories about it. I think Fischer regretted speaking about it the moment the words came out.
Hmm. Didn’t see that. Oh well. Wanted that to work out.Most of those "fans" want the head coach fired too.
Some UW fans are weirdly put off by his leaving.
Jaedon Ledee transferring. Not really surprising, he became an afterthought by the end of the season.For now, and assuming this is the only early departure I think that this will have very little impact on tOSU for the 19/20 season. In 18/19 he was the fifth big in minutes behind both Wessons, Young, and Aherns. I expect all four of them to return so he likely wouldn't have moved up. Depending on how good the incoming bigs look he might even have fallen to #6 or #7.
Are we assuming Wesson the younger is leaving a year early?I am, for now.
Hoiberg.Heck of a coach
Jordan Pooles dad fighting on social media with UM fans, saying he's ready for his son to move on. So that's a developmentI haven't heard about that. Wouldn't be the first time a kid left too soon (he's not in striking distance of the 1st Rd). But it is one of the weirder ways for fans to find out.
Heck of a coachwe're gonna find out
Jordan Pooles dad fighting on social media with UM fans, saying he's ready for his son to move on. So that's a developmentI know his dad said he'd never go to UW (not sure why though), and he had no offer (grades), but I wish he was at UW. Maybe he could fix this now. There is room on the roster for him, and he'd start.
I know his dad said he'd never go to UW (not sure why though), and he had no offer (grades), but I wish he was at UW. Maybe he could fix this now. There is room on the roster for him, and he'd start.Fix what now?
I can't see Edwards leaving.hahahah I'm just hoping the Mayor can steal his walkon kid from Izzo
I think fans of the upper teams need to worry about Nebraska now.
So, does Carsen Edwards go to the NBA? I have to think he impressed some people with his run through the tournament...I assume that's a given
Fix what now?Transfer to Madison.
Transfer to Madison.I don't think he's transferring.
I can't see Edwards leaving.Really? Most think he's gone.
Really? Most think he's gone.There was talk of him maybe leaving last year too right? Stock is never gonna be higher and if he is a guy intent on getting to the NBA even if its as a 2nd rounder and spending time in the NBAGL there is prolly not much else he can do to elavate his stock in college.
Edwards has a problem with his draft stock... It can't meaningfully go up unless he grows 5 inches, or unless he starts dishing out 6-8 assists per game like Cassius Winston, instead of the 3.3 per game he put up this year.
He had a slump late in the season, but when the bright lights came on, he showed everyone in the tourney that he'll step up.
Projection before the tournament was mid-2nd round or so. I think he may declare without an agent hoping that he can sneak into the end of the 1st (guaranteed contract). If he gets a team that's willing to tell him they'd do so, I think he'd be gone. That's guaranteed millionaire money.
If his draft stock remains mid-high 2nd round, then it's a little more dicey, as a lot of those players don't make a roster and end up in the G-league. If he could get a 2-way contract, it would be worth it to go the NBA. But if it's just the G-league, he might decide to stick around.
There was talk of him maybe leaving last year too right? Stock is never gonna be higher and if he is a guy intent on getting to the NBA even if its as a 2nd rounder and spending time in the NBAGL there is prolly not much else he can do to elavate his stock in college.Yeah, he declared and got invited to the combine last year. Got knocked heavily at the combine because his measurables weren't all that good. I was expecting him to show better in things like shuttle drills and vertical, to make up for being 5' 10.75" barefoot, but he showed slow in the shuttle drills and had one of the worst verticals of any guard.
Pretty high ratings to not be committed at this point. What's the issue?IIRC he was playing against really bad competition. When MSU first offered it was seen as a reach, and people figured he'd commit right away, but both sides cooled, and I don't think there's been any contact there in over a year. He transferred to a prep school (IMG maybe?) and proved he wasn't just a product of bad competition.
We just spent ten days around Boston. I saw quite a few smaller solar operations, usually 20- 50 acres each or so. I saw zero wind mills. I'm sure they have them.Not sure if you meant to put this on the environment thread, but I'll address it here, anyway.
I was on a mission to visit five new states, for me, and did, so we drove quite a bit. I have only two states left and we hit Alaska in September, leaving only North Dakota. The scenery in general was less appealing than I expected and the wife was downright negative on it all. We did tour an old sailing ship and and oldish submarine.
Unsurprisingly, Carsen declaring for the draft with an agent.I think this is a big mistake.
I think this is a big mistake.He's already projected for the tail end of the first round from everything I'm seeing. He couldn't have shown better than he did in the tournament, and on a pretty big stage.
Yea seems like a no brainer to me if your Edwards that its time to go for it.I agree 100%.
I've been saying it for quite sometime.I said it after tOSU won the NC after the 2014 season.Cardale's stock would never be higher and the real chance of injury always loomed.Be nice if they'd stick it out for 3-4 seasons,specially if it's a talented group you may snag multiple Championships - Conference and maybe National.But alas - that ship has sailedIn Edwards' case, the answer is an obvious and resounding, GO FOR IT NOW.
- If this player (in this case Edwards) was my brother, what would I advise him to do?
https://collegebasketball.nbcsports.com/2019/04/08/college-basketball-2019-2020-preseason-top-25/ (https://collegebasketball.nbcsports.com/2019/04/08/college-basketball-2019-2020-preseason-top-25/)ESPN and CBS have MSU #1 also. Ugh. CBS also has UM #2, ESPN has them #7. ESPN puts four Big Ten teams in the top ten, with Maryland at #9 and OSU at #10.
https://collegebasketball.nbcsports.com/2019/04/08/college-basketball-2019-2020-preseason-top-25/ (https://collegebasketball.nbcsports.com/2019/04/08/college-basketball-2019-2020-preseason-top-25/)SMDH.
SMDH.Getting the Wisconsin treatment. 19 years straight in the Big Dance, 18-straight top-4 Big Ten finishes, ten sweet sixteens, four elite eights, and 2015 was about the only year they had real recognition to start.
I realize the storyline on Purdue this year is that it was Carsen surrounded by four guys randomly picked from Cary Quad, but to leave this team out of the top 25 entirely?
Two years ago: how do they replace Biggie? We won 30 games and went to the S16.
Last year: how do they replace 4 seniors? Win the B1G regular season, win 26 games, coach wins B1G COY and national COY and go to the E8.
This year: how do they replace Carsen? I don't know, but my money is on Painter figuring it out.
SMDH.Purdue has been a preseason Top-24 to Top-15 team four years in a row.
I realize the storyline on Purdue this year is that it was Carsen surrounded by four guys randomly picked from Cary Quad, but to leave this team out of the top 25 entirely?
Two years ago: how do they replace Biggie? We won 30 games and went to the S16.
Last year: how do they replace 4 seniors? Win the B1G regular season, win 26 games, coach wins B1G COY and national COY and go to the E8.
This year: how do they replace Carsen? I don't know, but my money is on Painter figuring it out.
Getting the Wisconsin treatment. 19 years straight in the Big Dance, 18-straight top-4 Big Ten finishes, ten sweet sixteens, four elite eights, and 2015 was about the only year they had real recognition to start.From 2003-4, Bo’s second year and the first after a 20-win season, UW was ranked in the preseason 10 of 14 years.
Whatever--it's where they finish that matters, not where they start.
Purdue has been a preseason Top-24 to Top-15 team four years in a row.Yeah, I was going to say, a lot of times they use spots at the bottom just to throw some different names in
That one ranking that is trying to be edgy has squeezed them out of the bottom group is ... unimportant at best. Don’t shake your head. Remember all rankings are silly frivolities, this one especially.
How dare you use facts to challenge the chip on my shoulder!I ... I’m really being unproductive at work.
Iggy announces he's declaring for the draft, and hiring an agent.I think they can hire agents and come back now.
Kaleb Wesson also going through the "draft process"Yeah, I think we are going to have to start reading into their actual words now to figure out how serious any of them are. Wesson to me is like Nick Ward, good college player, but not an NBA player, but the body limitations aren't going to go away with more time, so if he wants to go get paid, go for it.
Kaleb Wesson also going through the "draft process"IMHO, that would be a BIG hit to tOSU's prospects next year. Wesson is a good college big man who could potentially be a great college big man next year.
IMHO, that would be a BIG hit to tOSU's prospects next year. Wesson is a good college big man who could potentially be a great college big man next year.That's what I was thinking. He and his brother won the state title in HS. Their father played for OSU, and he was one of the only recruits that remained committed after Thad was let go. Dude loves the Buckeyes.
My own wild (and possibly optimistic) guess is that he'll stay around to play one more year with his brother then go pro when his older brother runs out of eligibility.
Thought about putting this into the basketball scandal thread with the release that Louisville has received a verbal notice of inquiry and it was reported that Arizona and Kansas are under investigation now as well.UW was his first offer (as it is for many who choose to go elsewhere). They were in it for a long while, until evidence of $$$ started to surface.
I've mentioned Zeke Nnaji before, I think. He's a 6'11" PF recruit in the 2019 class, was heavily recruited by Purdue, Arizona, Kansas, Baylor, UCLA, and with a very late push by UNC.
He verbally committed to Arizona but deliberately did so after the fall signing period. It was widely expected at the time that this was deliberately done to allow him flexibility in case there were NCAA/FBI issues. So he can't sign a LOI until next Wednesday at the earliest, with the spring signing period.
Since his whittling down to a final 5, and adding in UNC as a 6th (they were after his final 5 announcement), this is what has happened:If Arizona and Kansas officially come under investigation, and Nnaji decommits from Arizona, it seems like the field just got narrowed significantly.
- Arizona (Head coach subpoenaed by FBI, reportedly on wiretaps discussing pay-to-play, reportedly under NCAA investigation)
- UCLA (Head coach fired mid-season)
- Baylor (Finished 20-14, 4th in conference, R32 in NCAAT)
- Kansas (Forward DeSouza declared ineligible for 2 years by NCAA for pay-for-play with a guardian, reportedly under NCAA investigation)
- UNC (No drama since the academic issues a few years ago, and as a blue blood with stable coaching it's not necessary to even discuss records. UNC is UNC, and that's solid.)
- Purdue (Finished 26-10, 1st in conference, Elite Eight, coach just won NCOY)
Nnaji's dad was extremely high on Painter in an interview before the verbal commitment. Saw him as a straight shooter and that he felt he truly had a plan for how to use Zeke. Obviously Zeke still chose Arizona, but I could imagine a bit of "I told you so" from his dad coming out these days...
A lot could happen here in the next week.
ESPN puts four Big Ten teams in the top ten, with Maryland at #9 and OSU at #10.I am curious what you and others think about Ohio State for 2019/2020. I'm not looking for optimistic fan projections nor pessimistic "hater" projections but trying to gauge my expectations based on reasonably unbiased informed opinions.
Center Ibrahima Diallo commits to the Bucks. Kind of a weird recruitment - completely absent from rankings until recently. Was looking to go to Pitt until the Bucks became interested. He's an athletic 7 footer who will primarily be a rim protector. Fills a need, hopefully Wesson returns but he can't really protect the rim much and now they have some size off the bench.I think this is a great pickup for the Buckeyes. They now have 12 of 13 roster spots filled and are unlikely to look for any more unless a solid transfer (who will need to sit out a year) becomes available. Here is a good article (https://www.elevenwarriors.com/ohio-state-basketball-recruiting/2019/03/103338/what-ibrahima-diallos-commitment-means-for-ohio-states-2019-recruiting-class) on this from an Ohio State fan site.
| [th] POS [/th][th] SENIORS [/th][th] JUNIORS [/th][th] SOPHOMORES [/th][th] FRESHMEN [/th] | ||||
C | – | KALEB WESSON | – | IBRAHIMA DIALLO |
PF | – | KYLE YOUNG | – | E.J. LIDDELL |
SF | ANDRE WESSON | – | JUSTIN AHRENS | ALONZO GAFFNEY |
SG | – | MUSA JALLOW | LUTHER MUHAMMAD DUANE WASHINGTON | – |
PG | – | CJ WALKER | – | D.J. CARTON |
If Wesson comes back they'll have a full outfit of players, and guys who can fill all the roles one needs, at least on paper. I'm very bearish on depending on freshmen to improve the team, but next year there should be little need for any freshman to play a huge role.I agree with all of this. My thinking is that, so long as there are no unscheduled departures, Diallo, Liddell, Gaffney, and Carton should not be needed for more than spot duty. In fact, there might be a possibility to red shirt Liddell, Gaffney, or Carton depending on their development and no major injuries to the older guys.
The Hauser brothers are leaving Marquette. If they want to play together, I wonder if Michigan is in play? Can't be many good programs with two available scholarships at this pointVirginia is reportedly the main spot, which makes sense if they can work the scholarships. Some noise was made about MSU, but that's not possible. Michigan is listed at -1 scholarships right now, so we assume three go pro? (I can't recall who is on the border)
Virginia is reportedly the main spot, which makes sense if they can work the scholarships. Some noise was made about MSU, but that's not possible. Michigan is listed at -1 scholarships right now, so we assume three go pro? (I can't recall who is on the border)MSU would need Ward plus either Winston or a transfer to have room.
UW is being rambled about by UW fans, but that would spark some roster movement next year. I'd take it, but it could get weird.
Lunardi's way too early Bracketology has NINE B1G teams in the dance:I am curious to see what the schedule will look like. If it has already been released and I just missed it, someone please give me a link.
- #1 seeds: Michigan, Michigan State
- #3 seed: Iowa
- #4 seed: Purdue
- #6 seed: Maryland
- #7 seed: Ohio State
- #9 seeds: Minnesota, Wisconsin
- #10 seed: Penn State
Indiana adds 6'11" Butler grad transfer Joey Brunk, who averaged 7.6 and 3.6 in 18.6 mpg last year.Good get for them with Morgan graduating... They needed a big man.
Justin Pierce is going to visit Michigan after Beilein visited him. I'm not really impressed with the video that I've seen of him and especially his stats (though he has a good DR%, 2FG%... The hope is he would be more efficient playing fewer minutes with better players....), but he's gotten interested from a lot of power conference and/or top 50 teams, including Gonzaga, Notre Dame (where he's also visited), Florida, Texas, NC State, Virginia Tech, Purdue, and Wisconsin, so maybe I'm missing something....His sophomore stats when he had lower usage were pretty good.
I've mentioned Zeke Nnaji before, I think. He's a 6'11" PF recruit in the 2019 class, was heavily recruited by Purdue, Arizona, Kansas, Baylor, UCLA, and with a very late push by UNC.Nnaji signed with Arizona today. So we can close the book on that one.
He verbally committed to Arizona but deliberately did so after the fall signing period. It was widely expected at the time that this was deliberately done to allow him flexibility in case there were NCAA/FBI issues. So he can't sign a LOI until next Wednesday at the earliest, with the spring signing period.
| Team | noAway | noAway | noAway | noHome | noHome | noHome |
| MSU | IA | tOSU | RU | IU | UNL | PU |
| M | IU | PSU | UW | UMD | MN | NU |
| Purdue | MSU | MN | PSU | UMD | UNL | tOSU |
| Iowa | tOSU | RU | UW | IU | MSU | NU |
| UMD | M | UNL | PU | MN | PSU | UW |
| tOSU | IL | PU | RU | IA | MSU | NU |
| UW | IL | UMD | NU | IA | M | PSU |
| PSU | IL | UMD | UW | M | UNL | PU |
| Minny | UMD | M | UNL | IL | PU | RU |
| RU | IU | MN | NU | IA | MSU | tOSU |
| ILL | IU | MN | UNL | tOSU | PSU | UW |
| IU | IA | MSU | NU | IL | M | RU |
| UNL | MSU | PSU | PU | IL | UMD | MN |
| NU | IA | M | tOSU | IU | RU | UW |
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(https://twitter.com/JonRothstein/status/1120735173753167874)Marquette transfer Joey Hauser tells me that he and his brother Sam plan to visit Wisconsin, Virginia, Iowa, and Michigan State.(https://twitter.com/intent/like?tweet_id=1120735173753167874)
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MSU, Iowa and Virginia would all have to do some house Creaning to make this happen, I believe.Not sure on Virginia. Don't they have basically EVERYONE leaving to the NBA draft?
Not sure on Virginia. Don't they have basically EVERYONE leaving to the NBA draft?Virginia needs Hunter and Jerome to confirm going pro. Iowa and UW have the spots. ELA can speak better to MSU.
I dunno. It always seems like Wisconsin is not supposed to have nice things.I dunno. They're white, goofy-looking, and have vaguely central/eastern European names.
Virginia needs Hunter and Jerome to confirm going pro. Iowa and UW have the spots. ELA can speak better to MSU.They are currently one under the limit. There are rumblings from some corners that Ahrens may medically retire, but I don't put much stock in that. Kid seems like he's planning on coming back.
Lots of rumblings for Wisconsin, but in life things can always change.
I dunno. They're white, goofy-looking, and have vaguely central/eastern European names.Minus the STARZ, of course.
Seems like typical Wisconsin recruits to me!
Purdue adds Jahaad Proctor, a grad transfer from High Point, who previously transferred from Iona. 6'3" SG, averaged 19.5 ppg on 33.1% 3 point shooting last year. Oddly from the prior year, his scoring went up by about 3 ppg, but his 3pt shooting went down, both in frequency and efficiency, as he started shooting about two more 2s per game, which also led to an additional 2 FTAs per game. So he's a more well rounded scorer than just a shooter.It's very interesting... I was pulling for more of an established "space the floor" shooter, because I think we have the potential to go with some pretty massive lineups.
Project Big, former Michigan commit Taylor Currie departing UW after a redshirt year.Sounds like he's heading to Mott Community College for a season. Kenny Goins was headed there out of HS before MSU offered him a preferred walk on spot.
That means two of three 2018 commits are out. A little annoying, but I don’t know how he looked in practice. UW will return six rotation players and add a transfer next season, then six rotation players the next year, so I’m not mad about kicking the fan down the road a bit on that front. I suppose I will be of the kid turns into anything.
Anyway, it means UW could take the commit of a longtime combo guard target who is the No. 170 player in his class and still have room for Hausers and an in-State five-star they won’t get.
4* wing Ethan Morton expected to announce for Purdue today. Highest rated Pittsburgh area basketball player since DeJuan Blair probably?Highest rated Purdue player since Biggie, and before him the highest since the Baby Boilers.
but unfortunately I think the main reason Beilein took the job is to get away from recruiting (and all the illegal stuff associated with it for top 50 players), ...Yeah, John Beilein is the second-coming of Gary Williams in that regard. Gary, among other things, got tired of waiting for the legal recruiting period to start only to be told by handlers "Where have you been? We signed with [...] six months ago!"
Asking a kid to not return next year, just 2 hours before he had a final exam, is just pure shitty.I will agree with that
I think the main reason Beilein took the job is to get away from recruiting (and all the illegal stuff associated with it for top 50 players), the way that the NBA draft process works now (especially with Poole, Matthews, and Brazdeikis all being projected 2nd rounders at best), and other problems with college basketball.Yeah, I was talking about that with guys from the Purdue H&R blog... Roster construction is difficult with all of these early exits.
Evan Daniels thinks UM's top recruit is flipping to KansasOfficially decommitted
Someday I'd like to know why it took over a month for Cleveland to make its coaching hire. As it is, Michigan has been really screwed over regardless of who gets hired, and it's not going to be anyone near as accomplished as Beilein judging by the rumors from insiders. It's too late to get any good recruits or any decent graduate transfers for next year.It's kinda like what Bo did to King Barry with Gard, except it's not during the season. Still, Manuel almost has no other choice than to go from within right now.
I can only hope that Manuel doesn't screw up who to hire at this point.....
Certainly seems to be a lot of momentum for Juwan Howard. Which...okWill they be allowed to call him a former player in broadcasts if his seasons never happened?
- higher than Beilein risk of NBA HC defection if he finds success
I far prefer Howard to Jordan. Both are wild cards but Juwan's ceiling, especially as a recruiter, is far higher.
It sounds more and more like Juwan Howard heads the list. The biggest hurdle - aside from somehow retaining Yaklich, of course - may be that Juwan is one of four finalists for the Minnesota Timberwolves job. Ryan Saunders sounds like the front runner there, at least for now.Timberwolves officially going with Flip's kid, so that takes Howard out of the running there.
In much less prominent B1G hires today, Iowa hired Billy Taylor from his position as head coach at Division II Belmont Abbey College for the open assistant job. He has prior experience as the head coach at Lehigh (with NCAA tournament appearance) and at Ball State, as well as being the video coordinator at Iowa for several years under McCaffery.They hired him BACK?
All three Iowa assistant coaches now have prior head coaching experience at lower levels with at least once conference championship. The amount of experience on the staff is at least interesting.
Put another way: In May these were the three tiers available:
Unrealistic NBA home runs.
High variance unknowns.
Low variance mediocres.
When the top lane closes, you pick the middle every day if you know what's good for you.
Anyone who's never been a HC should probably be called high variance. And by not knowing how that group will perform as HCs, technically unknown. There's a sliding scale here, of course. Some high variance picks are more appealing (better bets) than others. Juwan and Luke are lined up along the more appealing edge of that middle category.
So so where does Yaklich fit into those parameters? He wasn’t an unknown. For all the praise Michigan fans had for him he didn’t sound like a low variance hire.
“Here’s what I said it’s simple you can’t hand the keys to a job that you told me was a top ten job in this country and at a minimum as a top 20 job in this country you can’t turn the keys over to someone who’s never coached a game in their life! Never coached a college and never coached a pro game and when Eric Spoelstra was suspended Juwan Howard did not coach for that team. The second-in-command in Miami did. Juwan Howard has never recruited. Juwan Howard has never fundraiser, has never been the CEO of a college program. John Beilein was objectively one of the top 10 to 15 best coaches in college basketball. You’re going from that to this and the only defense you have is but, but, but he played here. Nobody cares. This absolutely to me is a dud of a hire.”Anytime someone says “This is a top such and such job, I kinda roll my eyes.”
Mike Valenti 97.1 The Ticket
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=iBKdP9eeGWk
Will Howard be paid more as a coach than he was as a player?Despite the perceptions around the recruiting class, and strong evidence against a guy like Chris , Juwan was never implicated.
Sorry but that still just irritates me because the well paid five knocked my Buckeyes out of the NCAA Tournament that year and yeah, I'm not over it.
I know this isn't what you meant, but Howard apparently was the first NBA player with a $100M+ contract so that's probably part of the reason he was willing to take the job with a starting salary of $2M. The optics of his Fab Five association aren't good if you want to question his ethics, especially compared to Beilein, but it was moreso Webber and the top recruits from the mid 90s (eg. Traylor) that were the primary recipients of Ed Martin's money.... I'm somewhat concerned to be sure, but unless/until he hires someone from one of the programs that has been caught up in the FBI scandal or otherwise has questionable AAU connections, I won't complain. If he's smart, he'll be sure to avoid that....I think it's more optics than an actual concern he would cheat.
I think it's more optics than an actual concern he would cheat.Isn't it more like hiring Mandarich's roommate to S&C? Hiring Mandarich would be more like hiring Webber.
It's like MSU football hiring Tony Mandarich as S&C coach
The "perceptions" went back much farther.Perceptions also change. Today's NCAA culture is arguably more rife with players getting paid than it was in the Fab 5 era, and fewer big programs are being punished despite equal evidence (not to mention programs being far less cooperative now than Michigan was). Then we pair that with a general upswelling among fans that amateurism rules are the pinnacle of NCAA greed, not to mention illogical, unenforceable and unethical.
Just like MSU football's academic issues didn't suddenly pop up at the end of Perles' tenure.
It was fairly common knowledge throughout Michigan media during the 80s that Michigan basketball players were getting paid, and MSU football players weren't going to class, but were "enhancing" themselves.
I think the attitudes towards boosters paying players is the same.If the NCAA permits players to collect their own market value (rather than pay them as salaried employees) then that's one form of likeness rights, and it would almost certainly include legalizing dollar handshakes.
Now athletes being allowed to profit off their own likeness through endorsements, sponsorships, etc..., I think there is far more change there
If the NCAA permits players to collect their own market value (rather than pay them as salaried employees) then that's one form of likeness rights, and it would almost certainly include legalizing dollar handshakes.I always assumed there would still be some kind of restriction on that sort of thing. That would be the final nail in the coffin of me following college football.
So so where does Yaklich fit into those parameters? He wasn’t an unknown. For all the praise Michigan fans had for him he didn’t sound like a low variance hire.
Anyone who's never been a HC should probably be called high variance. And by not knowing how that group will perform as HCs, technically unknown. There's a sliding scale here, of course. Some high variance picks are more appealing (better bets) than others. Juwan and Luke are lined up along the more appealing edge of that middle category.
I don’t disagree with the talking radio head btw, obnoxiousness and all, who let’s not miss is a Spartans homer. If you’re going to hire a guy who’s never coached, never recruited, never fundraised why not go ahead and hire Yaklich who at least knows the program and has recruited for the program. It’s no worse of a gamble than hiring Howard, IMO.He has six years of coaching. Six more than say Fred Hoiberg. He’s regarded as a good personality in a lot of settings, which tends to translate to recruiting and fundraising. There’s perfectly logical ground there.
In the bigger picture College basketball coaching searches are going through a fad of experimenting with hiring flashy NBA names regardless of what they’ve proved, if anything, from the sideline. Ewing at GTown, Hardaway at Memphis, Stackhouse at Vandy, and now with Howard at Michigan, the surprise is that it’s Michigan succumbing to this fad. Michigan comes across too grounded and traditionally minded to get caught up in the latest fads.
Sounds like neither MSU or Virginia would Crean their roster to make room for both, so Joey Hauser to MSU and Sam to Virginia, instead of both to Wisconsin, who was the only one with room for both.That got weird. Much rumblings they told UW coaches they were coming last week, then suddenly a change and this split.
That got weird. Much rumblings they told UW coaches they were coming last week, then suddenly a change and this split.Kinda sucks to get screwed by the same recruit twice in 2 years.
Puts a damper on what some UW fans were already dreaming about as a special season in two years, but only slightly changes the fact they need to recruit some groups to reload the next couple years.
That got weird. Much rumblings they told UW coaches they were coming last week, then suddenly a change and this split.Rumors are that the parents hate Gard.
Puts a damper on what some UW fans were already dreaming about as a special season in two years, but only slightly changes the fact they need to recruit some groups to reload the next couple years.
Rumors are that the parents hate Gard.Yeah, it’s odd. I mean, if the kids want to go to those places, good on them.
I can't figure out how you could have that strong a reaction to him either way to turn down a chance for your son's to play together in state at a really good school and a really good program, to send them to two different programs, far away.
Not offering Sam had little to do with not getting Joey. Izzo didn't offer Sam either...Fair enough. Very weird landing spot for Sam. One of the message board insiders pointed out he’s going to have to sit a year to play year 1000 miles from home learning a new system. And shoot, might get him dumped as well.
Herro being committed had more to do with not getting Joey, and then he completely F'd Gard over with that late de-commitment and flip to Kentucky.
Kaleb Wesson returningI suspected this all along, but if it is final, that is a big development for the Buckeyes.
Eugene Omoruyi, Rutgers' captain, and leading returning scorer and rebounder, announces he's transferringWeird
Gavitt Games are announced. Michigan got what appears to be a favorable matchup with Creighton at home. However, the others appear to be not so favorable except DePaul @ Iowa and Sparty @ Seton HallSeton Hall is supposed to be good this year. CBS has them #10 in their Top 25 +1; Jon Rothstein did revised rankings this morning to factor in the final draft list, and had them #12; ESPN has them #11
Seems like Howard's strategy is to be program CEO, and surround himself with guys who know how to be head coaches. The rumored offers out there are for Mike Miller (not the NBA player), who has 13 years of D1 head coaching experience at Eastern Illinois and Texas State, and was more recently NBA G League Coach of the Year two years ago, and the recently fired Phil Martelli from St. Joseph's.I heard about Martelli being offered before it was widely reported through someone I knew growing up (he actually lives/lived near my parents' house where I grew up). I'm definitely not a fan of hiring both of them unless one (and preferably both) of them is an unofficial (ie. non-recruiting) assistant.
Man, I was just looking at the list of players who are staying in the draft. Jeez.Mike Brusewitz was the MVP of one country’s league.
I hope Europe has a lot of openings.
Seems like Howard's strategy is to be program CEO, and surround himself with guys who know how to be head coaches. The rumored offers out there are for Mike Miller (not the NBA player), who has 13 years of D1 head coaching experience at Eastern Illinois and Texas State, and was more recently NBA G League Coach of the Year two years ago, and the recently fired Phil Martelli from St. Joseph's.Per Matt Norlander of CBS, Martelli is a done deal now
Big Ten-ACC matchups announced
WEDNESDAY
Ohio State at North Carolina
Um...yikesI'm skeptical of this. Juwan's been recruiting rather actively. I am less so accusing Jalen's parents of lying than I am curious if they are poorly informed. Also, that's kind of a salacious story. If true, why hasn't it made the media rounds?
"4 star Jalen Wilson decommitted from michigan after their last coach left. He, his high school coaches, his parents, all said Jalen wanted to talk to Juwan before making a final decision. At this point, over two weeks after the hire he still hasn't talked to Juwan nor has Juwan set up a visit. Why you ask? Well, Juwan Howard, Michigan's head coach still hasn't passed the NCAA recruiting test. The test is an open book test.
Jalen Wilson is now committing next week without ever meeting with the head coach Juwan. He's graduated from high school now and he's moving on.
At this point, we don't know if he failed the test the first time or if he's studying for the open book test ... but we do know he hasn't passed it."
perhaps he's not "book" smartJuwan graduated faster than I did (4 versus 5 years). And to do that after being drafted early, he had to pull double time between being a full time NBAer and being a bookish undergrad on the bus and in the hotel while his teammates were letting loose on the town.
Wagner finally signs with Michigan. He should be an immediate starter, potentially the team's best player, and a future pro. Consequently Michigan's rotation will probably look something like this (from PG to C):Franz can be a 2/3/4, and like you I'm expecting a wing, but I think this team has a better ceiling with him at the 2. Also, had Beilein stayed, Livers sounded like a shoe-in for the 3. Especially given his 3-point strength matching the team's biggest need. I think that too raises the ceiling. Of course that requires a sophomore like Johns or Castleton to be able to man the 4 with Castleton as needed as the back-up 5.
Simpson - 30 mins
DeJulius - 10 mins
Brooks / Bajema / Nunez - 40 mins (I have no idea what will happen here.... If anyone emerges they might get 30 mins and the backup gets 10 mins)
Wagner - 30 mins
Johns - 15 mins
Livers - 30 mins
Castleton - 15 mins (yes I think he'll play some forward he did in a recent practice video)
Teske - 30 mins
It would be nice to get a graduate transfer at SG, but it's probably too late for that with no obvious good options.
It's rare for a recruiting visit to be objectively interesting, and the Franz Wagner saga is one of them.A small aside, it's interesting we want just the facts ma'am here. Speaks to how the stars of media are tidbit gatherers rather than tale tellers. Ah well.
LINK (https://www.freep.com/story/sports/college/university-michigan/wolverines/2019/07/09/michigan-basketball-franz-wagner-juwan-howard-saddi-washington/1680264001/)
I kind of hate how this article is written. It could be 10% as long without missing anything important. Anyway, if you click through, don't read the whole thing, just focus on the source material (the Saddi Washington quotes). And if you don't want to click at all, here are the Cliff's Notes:
- Franz and his family learned of Beilein's departure as they were boarding the plane -- nearly cancelled; reluctantly boarded
- The next morning they were ~90-10 he'd pick Alba Berlin.
- By the end of the trip, without a head coach in sight or a guarantee any assistants would stick, the odds were 50-50
- And then Juwan was hired, got in his ear, and moved it to a done deal
That tells me that Franz probably had a decent bias towards getting the american cultural experience. But still. Threading a needle like this feels improbable. Saddi and Juwan did work.
A small aside, it's interesting we want just the facts ma'am here. Speaks to how the stars of media are tidbit gatherers rather than tale tellers. Ah well.With all of the switching we see on defense now, it probably doesn't matter like it used to.
Also, at 6-foot-9, he can't play the 2, right? I mean, if he's quick enough to guard college 2s at that height and possesses a semblance of a jumper, he'll be a top-5 draft pick easy. Granted, Mich seems to have been heavy on 6-5 or taller SGs of late. (This falls into my hobby horse of fans seeming to want extra big guys playing up a spot, but that's another thing)
With all of the switching we see on defense now, it probably doesn't matter like it used to.Maybe. I remain skeptical of the idea of much larger players being slid to positions like that. Then again, it’s not the easiest to build a lineup where that happens. What would Michigan‘s look like?
Maybe. I remain skeptical of the idea of much larger players being slid to positions like that. Then again, it’s not the easiest to build a lineup where that happens. What would Michigan‘s look like?Since Wagner is advertised as a 2/3/4, unless Juwan has a more rigid expectation, the talk is to place him after someone emerges from the Brooks/Nunez/DDJ/Bajema/Johns/Castleton group as the hardest to leave off the floor. If it's Brooks/Nunez, then Wagner is a 3/4. If it's Johns/Castleton, then Wagner is a 2/3.
Did Amaker have rather talented teams? I never thought he did.The Horton, Abrams, Hunter, Harris, Sims bunch had more pure talent.
That could be true. Not to cop out too hard but I don't trust myself to contribute beyond a comparison of recruiting rankings and draft prospects. And on those categories, I was wondering if the 2020-21 starters couldn't be better regarded than the 19-20ers (similar in recruiting; better in draft).I'd take the later group, but not by a ton. And the weird thing is, I think Amaker is a pretty good coach, I just don't fully understand how he couldn't maximize talent better. My biggest problem with him was that he never seemed to be able to develop guys. They'd show up, show a ton of promise, and leave as seniors as basically the exact same player.
How would Horton, Abrams, Hunter, Harris, Sims stack up with you versus Simpson, Poole, Iggy, Matthews, and Teske?
Then you must disagree with me - maybe even strongly - that trading Poole/Iggy/Mathews for, let's say, Wagner/Livers/Woods is either net neutral or somewhat net positive in terms of realistic draft potential. And that'd be before accounting for small year-to-year improvements in Simpson/Teske.Who is Woods?
I agree with you on Amaker, by the way. Well at least at Harvard, I do. At a P5 like Michigan, I bet he'd have been a better fit to follow a guy like Beilein than a guy like Ellerbe. Most coaches would prefer that, I guess. But Amaker seems particularly ill suited to build a well-oiled machine from scratch. He seems like more of a maintainer or slow growth tweaker.
Then yes, major downgrade.I still think Michigan can have three elite defenders next year (same as last year). Matthews is better on D than Livers, sure, but Livers is a sufficient upgrade on Iggy defensively that the team could be close to replacing Matthews's impact. Poole was also the weakest defensive link by far. Wagner would have to be significantly worse than Poole on defense to negate that, but the scouting report points in the opposite direction on that. Also: offense. Isn't the line-up I posted a likely upgrade in PPP from last year?
I think Iggy was a Wooden candidate if he returned, and Matthews was the best wing defender in the nation.
The cheating at Auburn, LSU, Louisville and Arizona was so bad, DePaul got put on probation for it.Eh, DePaul was also suddenly pulling out of state 5* kids
5*??That's what I meant, that DePaul wasn't exactly innocent here
Leito has always been a solid recruiter, but not for 5* kids.
The cheating at Auburn, LSU, Louisville and Arizona was so bad, DePaul got put on probation for it.LoL
https://twitter.com/kenpomeroy/status/1159823740814929920
1. Duke
2. Kentucky
3. Kansas
4. North Carolina
5. Arizona
6. MSU
11. OSU
14. Maryland
16. Wisconsin
18. Indiana
20. Purdue
23. Illinois
24. Michigan
42. Iowa
54. Minnesota
77. Nebraska
83. Penn State
85. Northwestern
102. Rutgers
https://twitter.com/kenpomeroy/status/1159823740814929920Interesting link, thank you for sharing. I find it interesting to compare the schools that are consistent to the more "feast or famine" schools.
1. Duke
2. Kentucky
3. Kansas
4. North Carolina
5. Arizona
6. MSU
11. OSU
14. Maryland
16. Wisconsin
18. Indiana
20. Purdue
23. Illinois
24. Michigan
42. Iowa
54. Minnesota
77. Nebraska
83. Penn State
85. Northwestern
102. Rutgers
Congrats on stumbling upon my program ratings (https://kenpom.com/programs.php). It’s a tradition during coaching change season for fan bases and media alike (sometimes they are the same thing!) to talk about the status of their program that has a fresh coaching vacancy. The program rankings are designed to provide an objective input into this discussion.Ranking programs is not that easy whether you are a human or a computer. For a quick and dirty calculation, one could average a team’s ratings going back some length of time. In my case I am doing this using all the data I have access to, which goes back to the 1997 season.A straight average is fine, but when a human, especially a coach or player, is subjectively comparing two programs, they are surely allowing for recent history. In the first five years of my database, Stanford ranked 9, 9, 8, 2, and 2. Since Mike Montgomery left in 2004, The Cardinal hasn’t finished inside the top 30 and has had five seasons outside the top 100, including last season. We wish the best for Jerod Haase, but assuming the Stanford job comes open again someday, it’s unlikely to be viewed as a top 10 program.Still, there should be some accounting for what’s possible at a program. The Mike Montgomery era might seem like a different time, unconnected to the current college basketball environment. But in a way it isn’t. When Montgomery arrived, Stanford had zero basketball tradition. They hadn’t even been to a tournament game since winning the 1942 national title. And Stanford went 7-23 in Montgomery’s seventh season1. It was an incredible reclamation project, but maybe the potential was always there, too.So there’s more weight given to a team’s best seasons since 1997. Thus, those early Stanford seasons are not forgotten and the Cardinal is viewed as above average Pac-12 program despite the recent lack of success. Now take that weighted average and throw in some juice for conference affiliation: It’s 85% team, 15% conference in the current iteration. The rationale here is if the Pac-12 suddenly handed out a membership Cal State Fullerton, you better believe the Titans’ would be a much more desirable location for coaches and players.There is one more ingredient and that involves people. If the best basketball players are consistently choosing certain programs that says something about the stature of the program. So I add an adjustment using a recruiting rating based on the final RSCI rankings (https://sites.google.com/site/rscihoops/home) for each of the past ten seasons, giving more weight to recent seasons.Theoretically, the rating should be an indicator of the success we should expect each program to have over some sort of extended period in the future (like many years). But it may be more useful as trying to capture the perception of a program. Consider it a guide to how coaches and players might consider the currently hierarchy of college basketball when entertaining job or scholarship offers.This will be updated on an annual basis and should be considered a work in progress. I will make note of any methodology updates as they happen.
Tons of recruits in your backyard, unlimited money, but still clearly a football school, so the pressure is never going to be like at Kentucky or Duke. It's like the anti-UCLA. I think Texas is arguably a top 5 basketball coaching job.As a head coaching gig, I agree it's pretty good. But this list was also for recruits handling multiple scholarship offers, too. I'm not sure I'd put Texas in the top 30 for that.
As a head coaching gig, I agree it's pretty good. But this list was also for recruits handling multiple scholarship offers, too. I'm not sure I'd put Texas in the top 30 for that.Yet Texas has pulled in top-ten recruiting classes in a majority of the last ten years.
The kid *in* Michigan, not the kid *at* Michigan.It was redacted because he is a minor, so that suggests 2019.
That could easily be a recruit in Michigan that didn't even end up in-state. And could be 2018 or 2019, IMHO. Although I'd lean towards 2018, because Romeo/Zion were both 2018.
You can tell based on the size of the redact that it was probably a 5-letter name. Who would it have been?
Nice of the Big Ten to have our home game against Michigan with no studentsNot clear on the verbiage - Are you saying Michigan plays away nine times during those opponents' student vacations?
Not clear on the verbiage - Are you saying Michigan plays away nine times during those opponents' student vacations?I think he is just saying that MSU hosts M while the students are on break.
Not clear on the verbiage - Are you saying Michigan plays away nine times during those opponents' student vacations?Huh? OUR home game. The UM at MSU game is during Christmas Break
Maryland's 7'2" freshman Chol Marial possibly out for the year with stress fractures in both legs.
I doubt, unfortunately, that this kid ever gets on the floor. There's a reason he went from five-star recruit to project. Sadly, his legs aren't built to last...7'2" kids built like that rarely are.
| Date | Time | Matchup | Network |
| Mon, Dec. 2 | 7 p.m. ET | Miami at Illinois | ESPN2 |
| 9 p.m. ET | Clemson at Minnesota | ESPN2 | |
| Tue, Dec. 3 | 7 p.m. ET | Northwestern at Boston College | ESPNU |
| 7 or 7:30 p.m. ET | Iowa at Syracuse | ESPN/ESPN2 | |
| 7 or 7:30 p.m. ET | Michigan at Louisville | ESPN/ESPN2 | |
| 9 p.m. ET | Rutgers at Pitt | ESPNU | |
| 9 p.m. ET | Florida State at Indiana | ESPN2 | |
| 9:30 p.m. ET | Duke at Michigan State | ESPN | |
| Wed, Dec. 4 | 7:15 p.m. ET | Nebraska at Georgia Tech | ESPNU |
| 7:15 or 7:30 p.m. ET | Notre Dame at Maryland | ESPN/ESPN2 | |
| 7:15 or 7:30 p.m. ET | Virginia at Purdue | ESPN/ESPN2 | |
| 9:15 p.m. ET | Wisconsin at NC State | ESPN2 | |
| 9:15 p.m. ET | Wake Forest at Penn State | ESPNU | |
| 9:30 p.m. ET | Ohio State at North Carolina | ESPN |
Purdue was in on Carlson, and I think many thought it was down to Purdue vs Stanford, as he wants to be an engineer. Seen a lot of players who talk about how highly the value academics then go to a decidedly non-academic school. As Wisconsin is a fine academic institution, I'm sad to see him not choose Purdue, but feel like it was a solid choice for him.Yeah. All the "experts" had him going to Xavier lately, which made no sense at all, given his academic values. They don't even have an engineering program there, and they don't offer any doctorate.
I remember Francis Okoro last year talked on and on about how important academics were to him. He wanted to major in Computer Science, and was heavily recruited by both Purdue and Illinois, two excellent CS programs.Didn't Myron Rolle do the same with regards to med school...then picked Florida State. He did wind up being a Rhodes Scholar.
He went to Oregon... :smiley_confused1:
Didn't Myron Rolle do the same with regards to med school...then picked Florida State. He did wind up being a Rhodes Scholar.Your undergrad for pre-med matters a good deal less, I think.
Your undergrad for pre-med matters a good deal less, I think.Yes, but IIRC he kept saying academics were the most important factor in his recruitment, which is why Michigan was in it til the end. Don't say you are basing your decision on academics, and then pick Florida State.
There was a girl I went to HS with who was not exactly dumb, but didn’t give an eff. She had to go to the newly founded public school in state because she couldn’t get into a lot of more decent schools (which was bad considering the level of privilege she had). She ended up with a pre-med school job at John Hopkins and is now a surgeon.
In truth, if you’re on your game, most every power five school should provide enough of a program that you can get a good degree. An Alabama engineer will probably be pretty decent if they themselves are good at the stuff.
PSU was in on him strong too, right?Yeah, I think most thought it was a UM-PSU battle
4* G AJ Hoggard commits to MSU over Maryland, Florida and LouisvilleUgh, which seems to have caused Jalen Terry to decommit. Everyone I trust says even though Hoggard had the better offer sheet, they would take Terry over him in a heartbeat.
Michigan finally got its first big commitment for 2020 with Isaiah Todd. I admit that Howard's strategy of going after top 20 guys makes me somewhat uneasy (not that I think he'll get the program in trouble with the NCAA but just the risk of that strategy and the fact that those guys are more likely to go pro after 1 year, and those kind of players may not be as team-oriented....), but we'll see. There's also some concern that he could go pro to Europe / Australia, but apparently that's not likely.... Supposedly he projects to be similar to DJ Wilson but break out sooner, which would be pretty nice....Yeah, there are a lot of flags with him. From NC, but Duke never offered, UNC did then rescinded it, Kentucky cancelled his OV. Early in his tenure Howard probably has to take a couple kids like this because he doesn't have the established relationships with recruits/coaches yet, because he hasn't been in the college game.
MSU beat Gonzaga in a scrimmage today, but the biggest news is that Langford didn't dress. I'm starting to wonder if his injury last December becomes career ending. Which is crazy considering it started as questionable for the next game against OSU, and then turned season ending.I read an article that the Zags won? Not that closed door scrimmages are of any relevance
I read an article that the Zags won? Not that closed door scrimmages are of any relevanceYeah, seems like the initial reports were flipped.
Ugh, which seems to have caused Jalen Terry to decommit. Everyone I trust says even though Hoggard had the better offer sheet, they would take Terry over him in a heartbeat.Well, the first three schools to reach out after his decommitment were Louisville, LSU and DePaul, so...
Purdue had an intrasquad open scrimmage yesterday. Looking like this team is reloading, not rebuilding, after the losses of Carsen, Cline, and Eifert.Looks like KenPom agrees, he's still high on Purdue going into 19-20
Basketball season can't come too soon...Temper your tongue.
Former Nebraska basketball coach Tim Miles will join Fox Sports' college basketball broadcasting crew as a game analyst this season, the network announced Thursday.Well, they are certainly making him earn his stripes. I think he'll be really good at it
Miles will call games on site, the first of which will be Jacksonville at Xavier on Tuesday, according to the release.
My initial thoughts on rankings/tiersI'd probably move Rutgers up one and Maryland down one.
1. Michigan State
2. Maryland
----------------------------------------
3. Ohio State
4. Purdue
----------------------------------------
5. Michigan
6. Illinois
7. Wisconsin
----------------------------------------
8. Penn State
9. Iowa
10. Indiana
----------------------------------------
11. Minnesota
----------------------------------------
12. Rutgers
13. Nebraska
14. Northwestern
Thoughts?
I'd probably move Rutgers up one and Maryland down one.If you make those changes it lines up exactly like the unoffical/offical BT Poll we got from The Athletic tier wise.
If you make those changes it lines up exactly like the unoffical/offical BT Poll we got from The Athletic tier wise.I read that so it probably biased me.
@bwarbiany (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=19) (or anyone else) do you have a concise list of which teams each B1G team only plays once and where?Right here: https://bigten.org/news/2019/4/17/2019-20-big-ten-mens-basketball-conference-season-opponent-breakdown.aspx
I need to get the tier projection spreadsheet set up soon.
Right here: https://bigten.org/news/2019/4/17/2019-20-big-ten-mens-basketball-conference-season-opponent-breakdown.aspxThank you.
Right here: https://bigten.org/news/2019/4/17/2019-20-big-ten-mens-basketball-conference-season-opponent-breakdown.aspxLoL, as it turns out apparently I already did this because I already have those entered into a spreadsheet!
FYI I posted them here (https://www.hammerandrails.com/2019/11/6/20951833/big-ten-basketball-pre-season-projections-sagarin-method-and-cfb51) and hopefully it might drag a few more folks over to this site.I'm good with it and hope we get a little more traffic.
@medinabuckeye1 (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=1547) I hope you don't mind me using your tables, and @Drew4UTk (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=1) I hope you don't mind a little hot-linking of the pictures, as I don't have any good other place to host those PNG files... Let me know if either of you object.
Very cool. If I had to guess I have a hard time seeing the teams at the top doing that well. May be more of a mushy middle this year.I think you are probably right but for another reason as well. Typically, the teams at the top don't do quite as well as projected and the teams at the bottom don't do quite as poorly as projected. This is basically just for the statistical reason that a team projected to go 18-2 (MSU) has 18 opportunities to "blow" a game they "should" win and only two opportunities to win a game they "should" lose. Conversely, a team projected to go 2-18 (UNL, NU) has 18 opportunities to win a game they "should" lose and only two opportunities to "blow" a game they "should" win.
Where would the Bearcats slot into the tier system; hypothetically speaking?Probably tier 3. They are 24th on KenPom, below 17th Maryland and ahead of 30th Michigan.
Loving these season openers vs the Bearcats. Really gets me exited for game 1.
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EIva3sgUEAEhKVr?format=jpg&name=small)
Andre Wesson has a broken eye socket and will miss 2 weeksSounds like something I don't want to Google
Shockingsurprisingly, Memphis gets a judge to issue a TRO, and they play him. That's really risky, if I remember anything about these matters. A local judge being good to Memphis might mean big problems for Memphis down the road.
https://twitter.com/wojespn/status/1192935429835755522?s=19
surprisingly, Memphis gets a judge to issue a TRO, and they play him. That's really risky, if I remember anything about these matters. A local judge being good to Memphis might mean big problems for Memphis down the road.It sounds like a real mess. Apparently he was going to be suspended for nine games, but his family sued the NCAA and wanted to fight the case. And Memphis chose to play him. Not sure where this goes.
Winston's brother died in a train accident last night. MSU played Albion in our exhibition game so that they could play against each other just last weekWell that's terrible
Andre Wesson has a broken eye socket and will miss 2 weeks
Winston's brother died in a train accident last night. MSU played Albion in our exhibition game so that they could play against each other just last weekApparently suicide. Horrible
Apparently suicide. HorribleWait. What?
#6 Florida down 14 at home to FSU, who lost their opener to Pitt, who lost yesterday to Nicholls StateWasn't FSU ranked fairly high last year?
They're not listening to me :96:
Hopefully they keep it up in the 2nd.
What a goddamn choke job.One of Marquette's key players is now at MSU, and another one is at Virginia.
What a goddamn choke job.I only watched part of the last 10 minutes, so I wondered, choke job?
I only watched part of the last 10 minutes, so I wondered, choke job?Yep. 38 points in the first half. Went into halftime with a 13 point lead.
and then I looked at the play by play. Oh dear.
Yeah, there are a lot of flags with him. From NC, but Duke never offered, UNC did then rescinded it, Kentucky cancelled his OV. Early in his tenure Howard probably has to take a couple kids like this because he doesn't have the established relationships with recruits/coaches yet, because he hasn't been in the college game.And now he didn't sign yesterday
What a goddamn choke job.And you were looking forward to hoops season.
And you were looking forward to hoops season.Not throwing in the towel just yet. I knew flat out that this season would be dicey in the early stages as Painter had to basically remake the team without Carsen/Cline/Eifert. Remember that last year Purdue started 6-5, but won the B1G regular season and was on the edge of a Final Four.
Bucks win by 25 and B1G finally gets a big scalp
Edit: Jay Wright was the snitch
Cockburn is going to be a problem.
Couple weeks in KenPomCompared to our tiers:
1. MSU (1)
2. OSU (8)
3. Purdue (10)
4. Maryland (14)
5. Michigan (26)
6. Indiana (33)
7. PSU (34)
8. Wisconsin (39)
9. Illinois (46)
10. Iowa (56)
11. Rutgers (80)
12. Minnesota (82)
13. Northwestern (99)
14. Nebraska (129)
I'm not moving Indiana, no matter how many cupcakes they blow out, until they play someone of substance.I agree.
On second thought, we might want to wait a couple more days.I thought we just waiting until Christmas, because teams basically just play one cupcake game in between that and the start of Big Ten play
As noted above, 12/18 is the last of the first two B1G games for each team (MSU at NU) but then there are a slew of good games on December 19 and December 21:
- UMD at Seton Hall
- IU at ND
- IL vs Mizzou at St. Louis
- PU vs Butler at Indy
- tOSU vs UK in Vegas
- MN vs OkSU in Tulsa
- Iowa vs Cincy in Chicago
Then there are no games at all involving B1G teams from 12/23 through 12/27.
The thing is, is that he is basically suspended for over a year.It’s a weird case where he’s actually being held to the rule, even though the spirit of the rule was highly met. Should make the second half fun.
Meanwhile, some d'bag at Memphis gets 10 games for violating NCAA rules, UNC gets off with murder, and Arizona, Kansas, LSU and whoever else still gets to play despite numerous NCAA allegations, all while signing 5* players still.
All Potter did was GO TO SCHOOL. Isn't that supposed to be the thing??
I wonder if they want to discourage Potter's decision - which was to quit right before the season, and encourage players to play out the season and make a decision after.Maybe, but wouldn’t it also incentivize dropping out and starting online classes at a new school?
We get to play Purdue tonight.?
The one in Ft Wayne.LoL. I guess I should have checked the schedule, then I would have gotten the joke.
We get to play Purdue tonight.At least you don't have to play Indiana and Purdue simultaneously anymore
Yeah, I mean it was tied at 48. Then the Bucks just locked them down and ram away with it. This is a good defensive team, but still very sloppy on offense. Hard to say how they will match up with other Big Ten teams.I wasn't able to watch last night because I was busy and it was on BTN but WOW!
I wasn't able to watch last night because I was busy and it was on BTN but WOW!It was a weird game to watch. Can't remember seeing them give up a 17 point lead in the second half only to win by 19.
First, it probably isn't a good thing that Ohio State was tied up with a MAC opponent half way through the second half. After that, however, it is flat out amazing that the Buckeyes managed to outscore them 23-4 over the last ~10 minutes of the game. If they played the whole game at that pace, they would have won 92-16.
It is always interesting how steaky BB is. In this game:
- First ~10 minutes were roughly even, tOSU 14, Kent 13
- Next ~13 minutes tOSU dominated, tOSU 26, Kent 10: cumulative tOSU 40, Kent 23
- Next ~7 minutes Kent dominated, tOSU 8, Kent 25: cumulative tOSU 48, Kent 48
- Last ~10 minutes tOSU dominated, tOSU 23, Kent 4: cumulative tOSU 71, Kent 52
Wisconsin is no gouda.Yeah, I didn’t even watch because I was tied up with other things. Did a double take at the score.
OSU looks better than expected, but that Cincy win looks not quite as good.As an Ohio State fan I am optimistic but not yet entirely convinced because Ohio State's lofty top-10 ranking is based almost entirely on the Villanova win and one game can be a fluke. Maybe Ohio State really is that good or:
Yeesh, top of the Big Ten.Purdue has lost to Texas (KenPom #32) and Marquette (#29) and took care of business easily against cupcakes. MSU has lost to Duke (#4) and Virginia Tech (#48), slaughtered cupcakes, and beaten Seton Hall (#19) and Georgia (#67).
OSU looks better than expected, but that Cincy win looks not quite as good.
Maryland and Michigan look as expected, but haven't played anyone yet
Purdue and MSU both look worse than expected.
Wisconsin looks a lot worse than expected
Yet another game where Michigan looked great at various periods of the game and then made some dumb mistakes to keep the game close, but I'll take the win, of course.You realize they beat the #6 team in the nation right? Secondly, when you’re converting from a very slow pace style of game, to a faster pace, you’re going to see an increase in turnovers and fouls.
Nunez didn't play at all today, so Michigan will probably have a consistent 8-man rotation going forward unless/until he improves on defense or Bajema emerges. I'm not expecting either to happen, though, and fortunately Brooks and DeJulius are playing pretty well despite being somewhat out of position, especially when they both play along with Simpson.
Still too many turnovers and dumb fouls (especially with Simpson and Livers fouling out), but I still think that's a fixable issue. It's surprising that it's an issue in the first place considering how foul and turnover averse Michigan was under Beilein.
Tomorrow should be an even bigger challenge, though....
You realize they beat the #6 team in the nation right? Secondly, when you’re converting from a very slow pace style of game, to a faster pace, you’re going to see an increase in turnovers and fouls.Yes, I understand the advanced stats for basketball.
Another dominant win!!! Dare I say this team might be better than last year's.....It would make sense that OSU and Michigan would look the best going into the Game
Bring on Louisville....
BW .... I don't what our answer offensively is, I have been impressed with Thompson for sure so far. Eastern has regressed offensively it seems, if that is possible. Need to get open looks for Sasha and Wheeler (I believe he will start knocking them down) but damn we can't get open looks. Maybe it is just more frustrating because of the defense we faced the last 2 games. Have to do a better job of understanding how and where to feed the post from, hint it's not from the top of key.We haven't fed the post at all this season, despite the fact that two of our most efficient scorers are Haarms and Tre.
Illinois was pathetic in the first half and then stormed back from 27 down or something to make it close. Very frustrating performance.I watched the ending, that was just sad. They got so close!
Now looking like the ACC is going to come back and tie this up tonight:(Yep. 4-4 with six to go.
KenPom matchupsAs I see it tonight there are two games where a B1G win would require a MAJOR upset:
Virginia (5) at Purdue (13)
Nebraska (143) at Georgia Tech (72)
ND (50) at Maryland (8)
Wake Forest (87) at Penn State (25)
Wisconsin (56) at NC State (44)
OSU (4) at North Carolina (10)
On the bright side for Michigan hoops, their new coach already has more wins over top ten teams than Harbaugh does.
Odd scores early on:Big Challenge for Elite 8 revenge games.
PU/UVA was supposed to be close an PU is up big.
No worries, Buckeyes got this.This ends a very long losing streak for the Buckeyes in Challenge games. The last time tOSU won it was against a team that is now in the B1G.
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EK_yqd0UEAAhhUl?format=jpg&name=small)
A nice win, but like Nova, I am not sure how good the opponent is. Nice to see stadium O-H-I-O in the Dean Dome though. We'll know more about the Bucks after Saturday.I think they were clearly overrated, but they are still a top 15 team, in a tough true road environment.
UNC now one spot behind PSU in KenPom.Most definitely nobody. I thought that blue-blood and Top-10 UNC looked like more than the Bucks could probably handle.
Who knew OSU's toughest game this week was on Saturday?
This is the key, what are you using it for. KenPom is fairly useless at this point as far as a metric of what team's have actually done, but is probably a better predictor, due to the fact that you don't completely throw away preseason expectations on December 5.
Personally, I'm more inclined to agree with the KenPom approach, at least early in the season. While I think Sagarin will round into form later, it makes his system basically useless as a predictor until there is enough data.
Is nobody else following challenge?I would, but I have an operation to run, and it's very busy this time of year.
I didn't see the UMD/ILL game, what happened?Very tough game where Illinois came out and punched Maryland in the face.
How are our tiers looking these days?Kinda messy after the top.
How are our tiers looking these days?We decided a few pages ago to revisit that Christmas week.
Very tough game where Illinois came out and punched Maryland in the face.Thank you.
Maryland scrapped back to it, Cowan made a Trimble like 3 from 30ft to tie it, Illinois took it down and fumbled the ball, Cowan recovered and was fouled on the ground with 2 seconds left.
Made the first FT. Purposely missed the 2nd.
Tough, gritty, lucky win for Maryland.
We decided a few pages ago to revisit that Christmas week.Yeah, I'd like some more data points.
A lot can still change, but I don't think it's premature to draw some preliminary conclusions so far.
Maryland, Michigan, and Ohio State appear to be the top teams so far.
Sparty, Penn State, and Iowa could all still be top 25 caliber teams, as well.
Indiana, Purdue, and Illinois are good enough to make the tournament, too.
Wisconsin, Minnesota, and Rutgers appear to be NIT contenders.
Nebraska and Northwestern are at the bottom though actually not quite as terrible as I expected and might pull some upsets in conference play.
Wisconsin will finish in the top 4 of the Big Ten. It's what they do.
was watching Iowa/Minnesoota last nightWhen was the last time there were three in the top 5 period?
when was the last time there were 3 Big Ten Teams in the top 5 and one of them wasn't Michigan State?
Maryland on the ropesPenn State has themselves a win over a top-5 team.
Penn State has themselves a win over a top-5 team."It's home cookin', what you gonna do?" - Dan Dakich
"It's home cookin', what you gonna do?" - Dan DakichEvery night in every game.
So will Kansas or OSU be the 5th #1 of the season.There is still a lot of BB to be played before the next AP Poll comes out on December 16. That said, it should be interesting. The top-10 and what they have done and who they will play before the next poll:
As bad as Kansas looked against Duke in their opener, who would've believed they'd be in this position by mid-December?
RE the tiers:KenPom must still be heavily tied to last year, because MSU is still #4, but I guess the true road win over #17 Seton Hall still plays well.
We had UMD in tier-2 and PSU in tier-4. Thus, the PSU win over UMD is an "upset" and changes the projections. If you leave the tiers as they were, UMD's projection drops to 15-5 (tied with PU for 3rd/4th and UMD wins the tie) while PSU's projection improves to 10-10 (8th).
Note, we collectively decided to wait until the week of Christmas to update the tiers. For now we have:We will likely be looking at significant changes in a few weeks. Between now and Sunday, December 22 each B1G team will complete their first two league games and there are some significant OOC games as well. Then there are no games involving B1G teams from Monday, December 23 through Friday, December 27. Then there are OOC games from Saturday, December 28 through Tuesday, NYE. There are no games involving B1G teams on NYD, then league play resumes on Thursday, January 2.
- MSU
- tOSU, UMD, PU
- M, UW, IL
- PSU, IA, IU
- RU, MN
- UNL, NU
The plan is to update the tiers during that five-day break over Christmas from 12/23-12/27.
That crazy home cooking where Maryland shot twice as many free throws, on the road, and it was only that close because Maryland was intentionally fouling at the end. Terps had a 21-2 FT edge with 1:50 left in the game. Penn State shot their first FT of the game with under 4 minutes left.Did you watch the game?
If that's home cooking, sign me up for that in every MSU road game.
Maryland lost because they turned the ball over too much, and missed too many bunnies. Can't shoot 30% on 2s, and as an MSU fan I certainly know you can't turn the ball over 20 times.
Did you watch the game?There was some poor officiating in the Maryland-PSU game for sure.
I always find it hilarious when you guys equate the free throw shooting as to when what foul happened and how it stopped momentum, or changed the flow.
The end result NEVER shows the entire story.
If that were the case, you could just read the first page and last page of every book and know everything that's going on.
Yes, the Terps turned the ball over way too many times, but there were no calls on PSU until the 10 minute mark. The 3 at the end of the 1st half shouldn't have counted.
I know some of you don't believe that referees can change the momentum or direction of a game, just like at Duke, just like the NBA, like I grew up watching, but you're a little naive.
Road games are a bitch in this conference. Everyone is going to be 9-9.It is interesting that home teams are now 11-0 in B1G games but to be fair, most of those 11 winning home teams were clearly better than their visitor. In fact, our pre-season tiers correctly projected nine of those games with the only exceptions being:
One correction. PST gets two this year , MST gets none. Spokane is PST, as is (obviously) Sacramento.Fixed. To my underlying point, it doesn't matter because the PST and MST should get one combined not one each or two combined.
There was some poor officiating in the Maryland-PSU game for sure.They were really good, and a cohesive unit, unlike Maryland right now, and Smith cannot bang down low like Fernando.
With that said, there was no question who the better team was. Maybe Maryland had an off night.
Penn State is now 4-2 in their last 6 games against UMD, 8-2 this season, and 13-4 in their last 17 games.
Tonight we get Nebraska at Indiana. If that isn't an easy win for the Hoosiers, consider it a red flag.A loss by either team from the state of Indiana would raise huge questions. Nebraska is terrible.
This weekend:
- Nebraska hosts Purdue
A loss by either team from the state of Indiana would raise huge questions. Nebraska is terrible.Agreed. I'm not sure how/why the Cornhuskers are THIS bad, but it is ugly.
Rutgers with a nice win over a ranked team.Well that sort of ruins MSU's one good OOC win, but on the other hand "only" beating Rutgers by 12 looks more decent now
Rutgers with a nice win over a ranked team.Seton Hall has Maryland next.
Seton Hall has Maryland next.I think they might just not be very good. They didn't do well at Atlantis. They lost at home to MSU. ISU blasted them last week. Now Rutgers,
Look ahead.
I think they might just not be very good. They didn't do well at Atlantis. They lost at home to MSU. ISU blasted them last week. Now Rutgers,I hope, but Maryland does look vulnerable.
I hope, but Maryland does look vulnerable.They also lost their second best player for two months a week ago, and their best player, who scored like 40 on MSU, left the Rutgers game early. I think Maryland rolls.
The "youth" excuse is starting and the "x amount of games in x amount of days", not having enough time to practice new plays since tournament....
Blah, blah, blah
Probably the 2nd best player on the team so far, so a tough loss.He's been a lot better than I thought he'd be.
tough to win on the roadPretty amazing, road teams are now 0-12 in B1G games with Ohio State down nine at the half in the Barn.
So if the streak continues all season and the Big Ten has 14 co-champs at 9-9, what does the Big Ten bracket look like?LoL, not going to happen but if it did it would come down to tiebreaker #3, won-loss percentage of Division I opponents. There would obviously be numerous ties within that and I *THINK* that those ties would then be broken by H2H within each group such that the tied teams would end up breaking that based on which teams missed each other.
LoL, not going to happen but if it did it would come down to tiebreaker #3, won-loss percentage of Division I opponents. There would obviously be numerous ties within that and I *THINK* that those ties would then be broken by H2H within each group such that the tied teams would end up breaking that based on which teams missed each other.how do you know this?
how do you know this?Well, for one thing there are 20 conference games.
So if the streak continues all season and the Big Ten has 14 co-champs at 9-9, what does the Big Ten bracket look like?I think the more interesting question is what the NCAA Selection Committee would do. If the home team won every B1G game such that all 14 teams finished 10-10 (not 9-9 as pointed out by @Abba (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=65) above), then they would pretty much all be bubble teams.
Kaleb Wesson hurts his kneeNetflix already bought the movie rights
Edit: apparently fine
Netflix already bought the movie rightsI'm watching the prequel now
So what would the Big Ten bracket look like if the season ended today?
I admit I was slightly disappointed to wake up this morning and see that Michigan State beat Northwestern. Oh well, gonna be a crazy Big Ten season. Just a few more days until we get the updated tiers. Will it be broadcast on ESPN Tuesday at 9, like the Playoff Rankings were? MedinaBuckeye gets to have a goofy grin while Jay Bilas and Seth Greenberg ask him questions?I say we ask Bill Walton to announce them and also provide edible snacks
I admit I was slightly disappointed to wake up this morning and see that Michigan State beat Northwestern.Agreed (although I was watching it, so I didn't wait until morning to be disappointed). I would have thought it really hilarious to have 14 teams all at 1-1 and all home games being wins. Plus that keeps MSU from being a game ahead of Purdue in the standings ;-)
Rutgers handily beat Seton with their star player on the court. Maryland lost with facing Setons best player. Maybe credit RU as better than you think. Pretty ignorant statement showing no knowledge of NCAA basketball.Can you read?
Seton Hall wasn't looking ahead. 1. Willard is a strict game by game coach. 2. Seton Hall - Rutgers is a rivalry (It's a classic game with an award for state supremacy). RU- SH is always a hard fought game and it means more to SH than just another team. If people understood Eastern basketball, they'd know this. Compare Ohio State-Michigan football. Even in down years for one team, does the other look past this game? I'd think not. Anyway, for those who saw this game, they'd know it was SH on their heels the whole game. SH actually had MD down impressively for most of the game as well and could have won by 20 if their star player (All American) was there. He was not effective at RU being shut down before he left in the second half (actually SH played well without him). Home court makes a huge difference also.You don't know that.
Seton Hall wasn't looking ahead. 1. Willard is a strict game by game coach. 2. Seton Hall - Rutgers is a rivalry (It's a classic game with an award for state supremacy). RU- SH is always a hard fought game and it means more to SH than just another team. If people understood Eastern basketball, they'd know this. Compare Ohio State-Michigan football. Even in down years for one team, does the other look past this game? I'd think not. Anyway, for those who saw this game, they'd know it was SH on their heels the whole game. SH actually had MD down impressively for most of the game as well and could have won by 20 if their star player (All American) was there. He was not effective at RU being shut down before he left in the second half (actually SH played well without him). Home court makes a huge difference also.3 degrees are you a Rutgers fan?
Micah Potter gets out of NCAA jail today and will play. That will be nice.Glad he's finally able to go. Strange that OSU did everything they could to help him play and NCAA still said no. Hopefully he can give the Badgers a nice boost.
Kid should have made up a story, instead of going about the transfer the right way.
Purdue's offense is tough to watch.They can't put the spherical thing through the round thing... So yeah .
This Maxey guy for Kentucky is the type of center that just eats K Wesson alive.Haggans? Maxey is a guard
I do not think they will actually move to #1 in the next poll, but the Buckeyes have a decent argument.They certainly should be.
Tier Projection KenPomSo, tiers:
1. OSU (1)
2. MSU (5)
3. Maryland (8)
4. Michigan (11)
5. Purdue (13)
6. Iowa (20)
7. PSU (24)
8. Indiana (34)
9. Minnesota (45)
10. Illinois (46)
11. Wisconsin (51)
12. Rutgers (53)
13. Northwestern (100)
14. Nebraska (139)
Glad he's finally able to go. Strange that OSU did everything they could to help him play and NCAA still said no. Hopefully he can give the Badgers a nice boost.644 days since he last played in a game. Total BS. Anyway, 12 points on 3-6 shooting, 5 boards. 13 minutes.
So, tiers:Those would be mine.???
- tOSU, MSU, UMD, M, PU
- IA, PSU
- IU
- MN, IL, UW, RU
- NU, UNL
Maryland that high?I mean, it's the second-highest rated since the title team, and you tell us they're all monstrously overrated, so checks out.
No way.
No banger down low. Anyone with a decent center, will shut Maryland down.
So, basically everyone in the B1G.
Perhaps the most overrated Maryland team I've ever seen.
I get that KenPom / BartTorvik are predictive based on tempo-free stats and not results, but the discrepancy between how they rate Purdue (and to a lesser extent with Sparty) and their results to date is particularly large, even considering the losses have been close except maybe Nebraska, which is by far their worst loss, no less. I also know those ratings still might have some preseason bias, but I thought that would be lessened by this point in the season.I wonder how much preseason factors in right now. Obviously Purdue was super high early.
Tier 1: Ohio State, Michigan, Maryland, Michigan StateBy results tough to disagree with this. Only road win is MSU's fairly tight win over Northwestern. A lot of the home upset wins, like Minny over OSU and Nebraska over Purdue, haven't even been competitive.
Tier 2: Purdue, Indiana, Wisconsin, Rutgers, Illinois, Penn State, Minnesota, Iowa
Tier 3: Northwestern, Nebraska
Purdue, I think we'll have to see. They have a few ok wins, and a lot of losses. I wonder if the monster win over Virginia can completely hide all of their warts...I think not right now. For now, I have them as a team full of potential that could rise to Tier 1 at some point, but because the middle part of the conference is so strong, they better get it together soon.Purdue is a weird team this year.
Originally I had IU/MN/PU up in tier 2, but I'm not entirely certain any of them could take down OSU or MSU, even at home.Well I'm pretty sure MN could take down tOSU at home mostly because it happened a few days ago. OTOH, their other B1G game was a loss at Iowa. What is REALLY weird is that neither game was all that competitive. The Gophers lost by 20 in Iowa City and beat the Buckeyes by 13 in Minneapolis. In the Iowa game they were down eight at the break and never got a whole lot closer in the second half. In the Ohio State game they were up nine at the break and kept tOSU at about that distance throughout the second half.
Well I'm pretty sure MN could take down tOSU at home mostly because it happened a few days ago. OTOH, their other B1G game was a loss at Iowa. What is REALLY weird is that neither game was all that competitive. The Gophers lost by 20 in Iowa City and beat the Buckeyes by 13 in Minneapolis. In the Iowa game they were down eight at the break and never got a whole lot closer in the second half. In the Ohio State game they were up nine at the break and kept tOSU at about that distance throughout the second half.Understood, and obviously the tiers I proposed shouldn't have had Purdue losing on the road to Nebraska either, even though it happened.
Both of IU's B1G games look pretty suspicious. They got flattened in Madison then needed OT at home to beat Nebraska.
Purdue looks better to me but that is mostly based on their OOC and the fact that I agree with @Abba (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=65) above that teams playing "better than their record" tend to even out but their B1G games are quite unimpressive with a fairly close home win over NU and a not very close road loss to UNL.
- tOSU, MSU, UMD, M, PU
- IA, PSU
- IU
- MN, IL, UW, RU
- NU, UNL
Those would be mine.If we go with these, the upsets so far are:
That would make 3 major upsets 2 games in. It may eventually smooth out and be ok, but I think too much is still unknown to get that detailed.Two thoughts on this:
That makes Michigan's loss at Illinois no longer an upset. Purdue's loss at UNL is still an upset. Ohio State's loss at MN is still an upset. I didn't check everything else. I still like the above but more thoughts?
- OSU, MSU, UMD
- UM, IA, PSU
- IU, MN, PU, RU, IL, WI
- <blank>
- NU, UNL
Sagarin Predictor as of today:Can you sort this by rating and repost it?
(https://i.imgur.com/xNLngIY.png)
I don't think you move Nebraska up. They just lost at home to KenPom #232 North Dakota. Their two B1G games looked like they were maybe turning a corner, but that suggests not, and that their home court advantage isn't sufficient to be projected to beat any of those teams in tier 3.
Whoops, I missed that result. Yes, I think they belong in tier 5 then.Based solely on the two league games, UNL looks pretty good. Later in the season I base my thoughts on tiers almost entirely on league results and just ignore the OOC results because there is so much fluctuation in level of opposition and teams getting better or not getting better but this early you really can't. Each team only has two league results and that is just way too small of a sample size to base this on. If they still look that good in league games at the end of January . . .
Here you go...Thank you.
(https://i.imgur.com/OSKNFnz.png)
I'm okay with this.
- tOSU, MSU, UMD, M
- IA, PSU, PU
- IU, MN, IL, UW, RU
- (Empty)
- NU, UNL
Making those adjustments would give us:Just a note:
- tOSU, MSU, UMD, M
- IA, PSU, PU
- IU, MN, IL, UW, RU
- (Empty)
- NU, UNL
Looking at those tiers, I would expect, or at least favor the tier 3 teams at home to beat the tier 2 teams. I feel like tier 1 are the tourney locks, tier 2 are the tourney probables, while tier 3 are good enough to get in if they can perform slightly above (maybe +2 wins) their tier.Correct. One tier below beating a team from a tier above while playing at home is not an upset. To be an upset, the difference would have to be 2 tiers.
I mean, it's the second-highest rated since the title team, and you tell us they're all monstrously overrated, so checks out.Cool.
- tOSU, MSU, UMD, M
- IA, PSU, PU
- IU, MN, IL, UW, RU
- (Empty)
- NU, UNL
I'm okay with this.Ok, this is what we are going with for now.
Based on all of this, our updated projected final standings / BTT seeds are:If something like this happened it would make for a REALLY interesting B1G Tournament. As I see this, there would be 12 teams that would be either locks or on the bubble. Looking at the three worst of that group:
- 16-4 Michigan State (wins tiebreaker based on record against the 12-8 teams)
- 16-4 Maryland
- 14-6 Michigan (wins tiebreaker based on record against the 12-8 teams)
- 14-6 Ohio State
- 12-8 Penn State (wins tiebreaker based on record against the 16-4 teams)
- 12-8 Iowa
- 11-9 Purdue
- 9-11 Illinois (wins tiebreaker based on record against the 14-6 teams - upset over M)
- 9-11 Rutgers
- 8-12 Minnesota (wins tiebreaker based on record against the 14-6 teams - upset over tOSU)
- 8-12 Indiana (loses to MN based on record against the 14-6 teams, beats UW based on record against the 12-8 teams)
- 8-12 Wisconsin
- 2-18 Nebraska
- 1-19 Northwestern
I don't know what that would mean for Purdue...I usually think of 20+ as "safe" as well, but it varies based on SoS and I think PU would be pretty safe at 19-14 with a single win and probably even in at 18-14 with a first game exit because their only bad win would be the one at Nebraska. Their 14 losses would be:
Assuming a win over Central Michigan, Purdue would finish non-con at 7-4.
Then going 11-9 in conference only gets Purdue to 18-13.
I've always considered 20+ to be the only real "safe" number for the tournament coming out of the B1G, which would mean winning on Thursday and Friday of the BTT to get to 20-14. Given the strength of the conference and that Purdue would have to play somewhat decently to get to >50% in conference, maybe a single win in the BTT and being 19-14 would get it done. But I can't trust that because the win on Thursday of the BTT will be over an 8-12 team per these projections.
I'm pretty sure they'd be in at 18-14 and I'd bet on it at 19-14.Yeah, 19-14 would be very comparable to what got the Buckeyes an 11 seed last year. It was a pretty weak bubble though, so it would depend on what else happens across the country, but yeah I'd probably favor Purdue to get in.
So the entire Big Ten will have it's noncon wrapped up by the New Year?I didn't scour each schedule carefully so I could have missed a random mid-season OOC game, but I didn't see any on a quick review.
West Virginia today then big ten for real. Man, looking through the schedule how many games am i confident about? Two maybe? Home against Nebraska and Northwestern. What a grindMy FiL played FB for WVU in the '50's so the wife, FiL, MiL, 9 month old son, and I are going to Rocket Mortgage Fieldhouse for the game today, GO BUCKS!
West Virginia today then big ten for real. Man, looking through the schedule how many games am i confident about? Two maybe? Home against Nebraska and Northwestern. What a grindBig Litmus test game for WVU. I’ve seen a little of Ohio St twice and came away really impressed both times. WVU has two young bigs who are really good but I don’t think our guards can hang with OSU’s.
This is the most subdued tOSU crowd I have ever been a part of.Hangover from last night.
Updated projections with OOC (assuming UW beats Rider tonight):Not. Happening.
[img width=273.429 height=126]https://i.imgur.com/UnYChKJ.png[/img]
Simplified view:
(https://i.imgur.com/64ADlGY.png)
Did this pecking order get altered by the blast of Holiday Non-Cons?
- #1 would obviously be MSU
- #2, #3, and #4 would be tOSU, UMD, and IU but there is no way to break that tie yet because none have played each other.
- #5 would be Penn State
- #6 - 9 would be IL, RU, M, and IA but I'm not figuring out that tie
- #10 would be PU
- #11-12 would be MN and UW but I'm not figuring that tie out either
- #13 would be UNL
- #14 would be NU
Just saw that Northwestern beat #12 Maryland, and was shocked until I realized it said NCAAW...They've been very vulnerable this year as well.
If Iowa State loses at home, in an untelevised game, on New Years Eve, to Florida A&M, ranked #324 in KenPom, and nobody notices, did it happen?Always shows up on KenPom
YouTubeTV is what I've used for the past year, I have no major complaints, and the consensus seems to be that it's the best streaming service. I think they still offer a week or month-long free trial.My brother is the tech head in the family, and he agrees
Wiscy and OSU tilt tonight in Columbus. Kyle Young out for the Bucks after having an appendectomy. Health has been an issue this season for the Bucks, though Young should eventually be back. Not sure what the turnaround time is for that.I wonder how Potter will be received by the faithful.
I wonder how Potter will be received by the faithful.Will anyone there have been alive back when Potter was there?
I think the RU @ UNL game tonight is big for the Scarlet Knights. Based on our predictions they will win this but it is a potentially dangerous game and one they cannot afford to lose.Particularly for these three teams, extra losses would be seriously problematic. To be safe I think that RU needs to end up +2 in net upsets on our model. Ie, they need two positive upsets and zero negative upsets or three positive and one negative, etc. A loss in Lincoln tonight would really make that a big hill to climb for the Scarlet Knights.
I mean the Zags aren't really in need of more respect at this pointMy point is that they annoy me because they get WAY more than they deserve.
Bucks shooting a scintillating 10 percent from 3 in the first halfJanuary lull 2.0. Hopefully they can wake up enough to get a W here.
The Buckeyes are in free-fall. They have now lost three of five and none were expected losses.Also beat Kentucky
My point is that they annoy me because they get WAY more than they deserve.I mean what more can they really do? I read somewhere that the WCC went down to 16 games to give their schools more chances to improve their RPI.
Also beat KentuckyThat was great but the other four of their last five were a meaningless win and three unexpected losses.
I mean what more can they really do? I read somewhere that the WCC went down to 16 games to give their schools more chances to improve their RPI.A B1G team can play a crappy OOC (like IU, Ohii State's is pretty good) but they will make it up in conference. Gonzaga will not. Yes, the WCC has a few decent teams but look at my comparison above.
Gonzaga always plays in a top non-con tournament (Atlantis, Maui, etc.) and plays some good non-con games on top of that (Arizona, Washington, North Carolina, and Texas A&M this year). Their guarantee games aren't that bad, either, and they didn't schedule any non-D1 schools, either. The WCC is also decent this year with Saint Mary's, Santa Clara, BYU, San Francisco, and Pacific all good enough to finish in the top 100 by which ever ranking system you prefer (NET, RPI, KenPom / BartTorvik, etc.).
Conversely, Ohio State hasn't played in a non-con tournament the past 2 years. Yes, they're in the CBS Sports neutral site game each year, they had a series with Cincinnati, and happened to be in the Gavitt Games the past 2 years, but they've still had 6 and 7 guarantee games the past 2 years, too.
This effin team.About to move up a tier? We all knew they would.
On Wisconsin.
About to move up a tier? We all knew they would.I won’t bump em just yet because I want to see a little follow up. But they’re feisty, and that’s pretty helpful.
On!, Wisconsin, On!, Wisconsin, Run that ball clear 'round Chicago, Touchdown Sure This Time!!
Fight! Fellows fight fight fight, we'll Win This Game!
That was great but the other four of their last five were a meaningless win and three unexpected losses.I think unexpected losses are going to be life in the B1G for everyone this year
This effin team.Wow!
On Wisconsin.
I won’t bump em just yet because I want to see a little follow up. But they’re feisty, and that’s pretty helpful.The other issue is that at this point UW is only +1. We don't generally move teams at +/-1.
Badgers are going to finish in the top 4 this year.Now that's aggressive right there. I'd love to see it.
OSU beats Maryland handily.I certainly hope so, but the Buckeyes are not in good shape right now.
Ha, every Big Ten team except OSU and Rutgers with a top 16 projected SOS by TorvikTwo things:
https://twitter.com/totally_t_bomb/status/1214051733976080384
Ah, great.
Didn't realize Ohio State's next game was Maryland.
Wisconsin wouldn't be a bad loss, but Maryland would be a great win.
Ohio State has been preparing for a week for this then.
Maryland was just trying to get out of a funk against Indiana.
OSU beats Maryland handily.
I don't know. The Buckeyes are likely missing their glue guy in Kyle Young, while the rest of the team just can't stop turning it over. Even in their big wins this year, they've had too many turnovers. 13.8 turnovers per game just seems like way too much. Maryland is turning it over 12.4 times a game, while Wisconsin is only turning it over 11.2 times per game. The turnovers and lack of defensive rebounding are leading to extra possession for the other team and are starting to show up in the L column. This is a tough one when you really need a get right game. Very similar to last January so far, ugh.The Buckeyes have got to avoid long scoring droughts, particularly in the second half.
Seth Towns, who was HM AP All-American and Ivy League POTY as a sophomore in 2018, before missing all of last year and this with injuries, has entered the transfer portal, with Ohio State as the presumptive landing spot.Interesting - I didn't know he went to Northland. OSU getting tight on numbers - they already have 12 guys coming back next year, plus 2 freshmen. I would assume Kaleb Wesson is looking to turn pro after this season. So that's still 13 unless someone else leaves. DJ Carton could conceivably leave early if he looks good down the stretch. Justin Ahrens has struggled to find minutes.
Meaningless at this stage, but Lunardi has Rutgers playing in the First Four in Dayton in his new Bracketology.He now has 10 B1G teams in plus Illinois among the "Next Four Out".
Kyle Young doubtful to play tonightI'm surprised its that positive. I assumed at least a couple more weeks.
Pretty ugly first halfAgreed.
Remember when Ohio State was 11-1 and in the top-5?That was fun.
Now 11-4, three games back in the league and barely clinging to a spot in the top-25 with a trip to Bloomington looming.
I've never seen a team go from having a legitimate argument to be #1 to not even having an argument to be ranked at all this quickly.
I'm not sure why it would be safe to assume that. For one, there is a chance they get to full strength. For two, even though they are on a three game losing streak, that's to KenPom's #7, #13, and #21 teams. Indiana is #42. These are good ass teams they are playing and even looking mostly like crap they've had chances.
At this point I think it is safe to assume that the Buckeyes WILL lose in Bloomington this weekend and when they do, I will move them down to tier-2.
I'm not sure why it would be safe to assume that. For one, there is a chance they get to full strength. For two, even though they are on a three game losing streak, that's to KenPom's #7, #13, and #21 teams. Indiana is #42. These are good ass teams they are playing and even looking mostly like crap they've had chances.I know, but I attended the WVU game and watched all or part of the other two and if you can't put the spherical thing through the round thing it is pretty difficult to win.
I mean Maryland is #7 in KenPom, ahead of AP #1 Gonzaga, with a top 10 adjusted efficiency defenseThe Maryland loss, by itself, would not concern me. It was a projected loss anyway. However, per BPI (and the composite that you just posted where available), in their last six games Ohio State has:
At this point I see no good reason to believe that the Buckeyes can suddenly turn this around and win in Bloomington.How about Holtmann being undefeated against IU so far in his short tenure?
There's context to getting "blown off the court in Champaign". Purdue held the Illini to below their season averages in FG% and FT%, although they shot slightly better than their season average from 3pt. Nothing the Illini did offensively or defensively was much different than normal.
- Purdue is a 2-3/9-7 team that is probably better than their record but they need the W's to prove it. They were VERY competitive in Ann Arbor last night but got blown off the court in Champaign prior to that. Worse, after this game they travel to Maryland so there is a very real possibility that this could grow to a four-game losing streak dropping PU's record to 2-5/9-9.
Per our tier system, Purdue is expected to beat MSU at home. Per Sagarin, Purdue is *not*. And per Sagarin, it's not expected to be all that close.Sagarin can't account for the fact that Mackey has replaced Kohl as our House of Horrors.
Sagarin can't account for the fact that Mackey has replaced Kohl as our House of Horrors.Agreed. And as you point out, the MSU wins in Mackey have mostly been against teams hobbled with injury or some of Painter's worst teams. I wouldn't exactly call Mackey your "house of horrors" when so many of those other losses were against very, very good Purdue teams. Even if they weren't always on the level of MSU, Mackey is one of the top home court advantages in the conference and in the nation. So MSU would be expected to lose to good, if not always *great*, Purdue teams.
MSU has lost there 7 times since 2007, including 3 in a row. The 4 wins MSU has (2010, 2012, 2013, 2014) in that building in the mean time was the game where they beat them post-Hummel injury, after losing at home, to get a share of the Big Ten title, and the 3 year run where Painter was seemingly close to getting fired, having his worst 3 year run.
Boilers aren't as good as they've been, but they aren't 2012-14 bad either. Maybe if Haarms is out, you could compare it to the 2010 win without Hummel. I'm not picking it though
Also right now Rutgers in in sole possession of second place.Rutgers and Illinois are playing for sole possession of second place. It will either be 4-1 Rutgers or 4-2 Illinois.
And it has been an awful game to watch26-22 Rutgers 5 minutes into the 2nd half.
I'm not sure why it would be safe to assume that. For one, there is a chance they get to full strength. For two, even though they are on a three game losing streak, that's to KenPom's #7, #13, and #21 teams. Indiana is #42. These are good ass teams they are playing and even looking mostly like crap they've had chances.See it now?
I'm just glad they will be out of the rankings now. Can finally reset expectations a little bit. It is now a fight to get to 10-10 in conference play and make the tourney.I've never seen a team go from having a legitimate argument to be ranked #1 to not having a legitimate argument to be ranked at all this quickly.
See it now?I guess but if we go by the last four games they are the worst team in the big ten
Believe me, I'm not happy about it but at some point this team just completely forgot how to put the ball through the hoop. If you can't score, you can't win.
I've never seen a team go from having a legitimate argument to be ranked #1 to not having a legitimate argument to be ranked at all this quickly.I remember UVA in the late 90s being #4 in the country in Feb and then failing to make the tourney. It happens sometimes.
You are right, now the question is whether or not they will make the tournament.
They failed their one job; to be relevant after FB season.Welcome to football season for the rest of us. I have been singing Holtzman's praises, but I'm starting to wonder. Basically all he's done is get Matta's high end recruits to stop crapping the bed two years ago, and finish 4th in a Big Ten that went exactly 4 deep.
Welcome to football season for the rest of us.I like it.
This was predictablePurdue fans aren't comfortable. Lost a similar lead at Marquette and gave away the home game vs Texas in the final minutes.
A guy who hasn't hit a three in like two months has hit three. It's par for the course in this building. I wouldn't worry.And now he thinks he's Carsen and should keep shooting...
I'm drawing a blank. What's the name of that long-time Big Ten ref who was known for emphasizing his calls way too hard. Recently retired I'm pretty sure.TV Teddy?
I'm drawing a blank. What's the name of that long-time Big Ten ref who was known for emphasizing his calls way too hard. Recently retired I'm pretty sure.There are no conference affiliations for basketball refs
TV Teddy?
Ted Valentine(?) I think?
There are no conference affiliations for basketball refs
Are you saying that there are not Big Ten officiating crews? I don't think that is accurate.You might see a lot of the same faces but, no, there aren’t Big Ten officiating crews in basketball. Or any other league for that matter.
Are you saying that there are not Big Ten officiating crews? I don't think that is accurate.It's not like football. Refs don't have conference affiliations in basketball.
It's not like football. Refs don't have conference affiliations in basketball.Wasn’t the thing with TV teddy that he emphatically wasn’t bullied by home crowds?
Honestly, that's how it should be. For optics if nothing else. IMO, basketball refs are consistently terrible in terms of getting bullied by home crowds, so at least it sort of evens out.
Despondent OSU fans Bart Torvik Ranking for 2020 games onlyWith Purdue nuking MSU your new bottom two are OSU and Nebraska. Who face off tomorrow.
1. MSU (2)
2. Wisconsin (12)
3. Illinois (15)
4. Rutgers (19)
5. Maryland (24)
6. Iowa (42)
7. Minnesota (43)
8. Indiana (48)
9. Michigan (55)
10. Northwestern (68)
11. Penn State (72)
12. OSU (92)
13. Purdue (112)
14. Nebraska (132)
Also, with the update all teams are within +/-1 except Nebraska (+2). They have two upset wins at home (PU, IA) but they also just lost at Northwestern so I'm not ready to move them up. Here are the upsets so far:Yeah, and moving Nebraska up to tier 4 doesn't help them. They'd only be +1 (+2, -1) as their wins over Iowa and Purdue are still two tiers apart, but then they'd have a home loss to tier 3 Rutgers which would be a negative upset.
(https://i.imgur.com/2IoYeZK.png)
Teams are:
- +2 UNL
- +1 IL, UW (+2, -1)
- even UMD, MSU, M, RU, IU, MN, NU
- -1 tOSU, PSU, IA, PU
Yeah, and moving Nebraska up to tier 4 doesn't help them. They'd only be +1 (+2, -1) as their wins over Iowa and Purdue are still two tiers apart, but then they'd have a home loss to tier 3 Rutgers which would be a negative upset.I came to the same conclusion for Nebraska . . . so far. The difference between tier-5 (where they are now) and tier-4 (the blank tier we *COULD* move them up to) is the projected result in home games against the tier-3 teams. For Nebraska those are:
Went to bed early. Didn't see the game. Stats look like a normal Maryland game.Oh yeah.
Fans blasting the refs, and a play late inbounded that reeks of Turgeon Stupidity.
Guess I'll watch it in a bit.
I'll do a full update to the tiers tomorrow to take tonight's results into account. I did move Wisconsin up to tier-2 from tier-3 so the updated tiers are:This year is a crapshoot. There's just not enough differentiation that the tier system works the way it should, IMHO. We have maybe a few teams that are bordering on excellent [not elite], and then a huge middle group that's very, very good.All teams are within +/-1 on upsets except Nebraska (+2). Here is where they all stand:
- MSU, UMD
- M, UW, tOSU, PSU, IA, PU
- RU, IL, IU, MN
- blank
- UNL, NU
- +2: UNL
- +1: IL, UW (+2, -1)
- even: UMD, MSU, RU, IU, MN, NU
- -1: tOSU, PSU, IA, PU
- Note: Unless otherwise noted, each team got there the quickest way possible. Ie, +2 means two positive upsets, +1 means one positive upset, even means no upsets, etc.
Wisconsin's win and their move up to tier-2 improves their projected finish to 12-8/19-12 and tied with Michigan for 3rd/4th. The middle (from 3rd to 12th) is EXTREMELY fluid as we project ten teams to finish within three games of each other at 12-8 (two teams), 11-9 (four teams), 10-10 (two teams), or 9-11 (two teams).
Oh yeah.Yeah, you're right.
Holy sheet.
What a crock.
This year is a crapshoot. There's just not enough differentiation that the tier system works the way it should, IMHO. We have maybe a few teams that are bordering on excellent [not elite], and then a huge middle group that's very, very good.I'll check tomorrow, but I think we actually have less upsets now than usual.
I don't know what to think.
Day after Duke loses to Clemson, Kentucky loses to SC and Butler to Seton Hall.The overall talent is way down from last year. Who is a team that can contend for a title that has a top ten draft pick? Dayton and Obi Toppin?
Tough to see any P5 teams finishing with fewer than 6-7 losses
The overall talent is way down from last year. Who is a team that can contend for a title that has a top ten draft pick? Dayton and Obi Toppin?I think Carey winds up being borderline Top 10. He's gone from top 5 to out of the lottery, to back near the top.
Were you thinking of Ed Hightower? He retired in 2013.
Yeah, you're right.The same old tired nonexistent reasoning for officiating.
It's not every day that you see the visiting team MAKE more free throws than the home team TAKES.
There were missed calls both ways - as there always are. And Dan... let's just say he's not what he used to be.I feel like Maryland's calls, the ones that were correct, were justified.
I'm feeling nice today.
The same old tired nonexistent reasoning for officiating.I get it but at the very least stats like FTA and fouls called are factual. They are inarguable. When you start getting into missed no calls it’s an opinion that is usually influenced by your rooting interest.
The no calls, the ball off of the Wisconsin player in the final minutes, the no-call holding Cowan along the baseline , the no call over the back on Dante.....
As Dan said, "it's good to be the home team in the BIG".
I feel like Maryland's calls, the ones that were correct, were justified.I feel like every game Maryland plays I hear about calls. At some point, I'm gonna assume it's an overreaction or the same selective attention that affects most fans. I am already past that point.
The announcers called out several that went Wisc way.
Neither of us should take offense to it. We didn't play, but it was definitely one sided.
Wisconsin will finish in the Top 4 of the Big Ten.With the way this year is going, "Top 4" in the Big Ten is going to include 12 teams.
I get it but at the very least stats like FTA and fouls called are factual. They are inarguable. When you start getting into missed no calls it’s an opinion that is usually influenced by your rooting interest.Probably not. I know what was missed and who benefitted from the misses. The home team benefitted more. Shocking. Not.
You and Badge could have sat right beside each other and had a wildly different opinion on what was being missed and which team was benefitting from it.
Muhammad and Washington will play tomorrow for OSU at PSUThat is much needed. Ohio State demolished the Nittany Lions in Columbus so this could potentially be a rare road win.
Lunardi's bracket today now has 12 Big Ten teams inHas any conference ever had that many? What is the record? I googled it and found an article from 2017 stating that the ACC set a record with nine teams in the 2017 tournament.
I feel like every game Maryland plays I hear about calls. At some point, I'm gonna assume it's an overreaction or the same selective attention that affects most fans. I am already past that point.Nah. I feel like Maryland got the oddest calls vs Ohio State at home, by calling them odd.
A not-great Maryland offensive team played not great offense on the road, kinda as usual. The very good defense was pretty good, but one bucket short.
Nah. I feel like Maryland got the oddest calls vs Ohio State at home, by calling them odd.Done and done.
But, keep thinking I cannot be objective.
The same old tired nonexistent reasoning for officiating.I don't know who Dan is, but the problem is not just in the B1G.
The no calls, the ball off of the Wisconsin player in the final minutes, the no-call holding Cowan along the baseline , the no call over the back on Dante.....
As Dan said, "it's good to be the home team in the BIG".
cowardsIn the immortal words of Vince Lombardi--well some of his words, anyway--"cowardice makes cowards of us all."
I don't know who Dan is, but the problem is not just in the B1G.I could see it.
SI did an analysis of home-field advantage several years ago and found basketball as the worst offender (that is, had the most HFA).
The explanation is that the zebras are so close to the fans and they don't want to get the fans angry at them.
So after last night, MSU seems pretty good.Excellent on defense last night. UW shot 21-59 and much of that was because of the MSU defense. Of course, launching 3's to the tune of 4-19 didn't help the Badgers.
Excellent on defense last night. UW shot 21-59 and much of that was because of the MSU defense. Of course, launching 3's to the tune of 4-19 didn't help the Badgers.Am I to read "launching" as a critique of how often they were shot or just that UW mostly didn't make them?
Am I to read "launching" as a critique of how often they were shot or just that UW mostly didn't make them?Too many were taken outside the context of the offense.
Too many were taken outside the context of the offense.Ehh, I'll half disagree. MSU was gonna force them into their late-clock stuff a lot, and this team lacks late clock firepower. They were miserable from 2 and 3 and needed one of those nights where they hit a good rate of the rare open stuff, which they didn't.
hoisting 34 three's didn't help Michigan get to the lineNope, but constantly hacking Garza sure helped Iowa
Nope, but constantly hacking Garza sure helped Iowa13 for Garza and 10 for Wieskamp
I stuck with my policy of not watching Big Ten football/basketball on these stupid mid season Friday nights. Even when it's MSU.Where was the hockey game? On my BTN it had OSU.
I did enjoy MSU-Wisconsin hockey, appropriately played on Friday night.
Where was the hockey game? On my BTN it had OSU.ESPNU
You didn't miss much on the hoops game, and you avoided Gus Johnson's blabbermouth.
Is Rutgers...good?I think so. I was not happy when UW lost over there in December, but it's looking like it's not a bad loss now.
I think so. I was not happy when UW lost over there in December, but it's looking like it's not a bad loss now.Rutgers now #28 in KenPom. #8 in the Big Ten. Would be #2 in the SEC, #4 in the ACC. Granted the entire conference except for Nebraska and Northwestern would be top 4 in the ACC.
I was actually mildly encouraged. Defense wasn't great, but after a very passive start they played well offensively, albeit missed a lot of very makable shots.The extended scoring draughts are still a major issue.
The extended scoring draughts are still a major issue.They were terrible to start the game and had the same problems as earlier, Which is that they seemed to tentative on offense, not pulling the trigger and instead just looking to pass. But they got that sorted out. Hopefully they can keep that going really need to go 3-0 over the next three.
- More than seven minutes into the game the Buckeyes had just four points. That is on pace for 23 points per game.
- Almost 12 minutes into the game the Buckeyes had seven points. That is on pace for 23 points per game.
From that point on (21-7 almost 12 minutes into the game) the Buckeyes and Nittany Lions each scored 69 points in about 28 minutes, on pace for 99 points per game each.
But for the terrible start by the Buckeyes, it would have been a great game. Most teams, this one obviously included simply cannot afford to forget to score for eight minutes in a 40 minute game.
They were terrible to start the game and had the same problems as earlier, Which is that they seemed to tentative on offense, not pulling the trigger and instead just looking to pass. But they got that sorted out. Hopefully they can keep that going really need to go 3-0 over the next three.Agreed, they need to keep that going. They have sunk to unranked and 2-5 in conference. The next three (vsMN, @NU, vsIU) are all projected wins and they *SHOULD* win, but none of those are complete gimmies either. The concern is that after that they go on the road for Michigan and Wisconsin back-to-back. Both of those are projected losses. If they win the next three to get to 5-5 then even losing both in Ann Arbor and Madison wouldn't be THAT bad as they'd still be 5-7 but if they slip up in one of these next three then they might never get back to .500 in the league.
This year is a crapshoot. There's just not enough differentiation that the tier system works the way it should, IMHO. We have maybe a few teams that are bordering on excellent [not elite], and then a huge middle group that's very, very good.
I don't know what to think.
Your comment reminded me that I never got back to @bwarbiany (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=19) 's similar comment from almost a week ago.
If Nebraska wins tonight, I propose we blow up the tiers and just go by gut, game by game. Screw it.
Illinois is pretty good. Cockburn is legit. Hope he goes pro so I never have to see him again lol!Said that start of the year.
I don't understand how Purdue can have four offensive rebounds, around the rim, in a single possession, and come up with zero points.
I see NW has those crappy rims.Fill me in please. What are crappy rims?
Fill me in please. What are crappy rims?A. Yes, he's a JUCO
Anyway, UNL hung strong last night but lacks depth. They had the two best players (Burke, Mack, 36 mins/each) on the floor last night. I can see how Hoiberg is going to build something there. Mack is a JuCo?
I don't know what it means for UNL, but if you drop Purdue to tier 3 and move Nebraska up from tier 5 to 4, Purdue goes from -2 to even.We should consider it. I would like some feedback from the group. After last night's upset (IL over PU in West Lafayette) there are now three teams outside of +/-1. They are:
Loss to UNL no longer an upset. Loss to IL remains a negative upset. Win over MSU becomes a positive upset.
Fill me in please. What are crappy rims?Ever play?
Anyway, UNL hung strong last night but lacks depth. They had the two best players (Burke, Mack, 36 mins/each) on the floor last night. I can see how Hoiberg is going to build something there. Mack is a JuCo?
I quit hoops after 8th grade. Football and baseball were my things.I only asked because you would understand the description better, which I still don't think I gave.
Tonight we should see if the Bucks are well and truly in the toiletYep. These next three (vsMN, @NU, vsIU) are crucial. They are all winnable but none are complete gimmies. If they win all three they move to .500 in the league and looking pretty good for at least an NCAA berth. If they lose more than one they are in serious trouble.
Tonight we should see if the Bucks are well and truly in the toilet
Purdue is quite ungood against seemingly everyone but MSUSorta like their football team with OSU.
Welp. Trash can.
Sigh...This team has way too much talent to be 13th place in this 14 team league. At this point it is time to start planning for the post-Holtmann era.
This team has way too much talent to be 13th place in this 14 team league. At this point it is time to start planning for the post-Holtmann era.I mean, I dunno. Oturu and Carr are easily more talented than any players we have. B1G full of talented guys this year, and a big problem is we don't have any players that are really good.
Where's Thad? How is his health these days?Still not back into coaching. I loved Thad but his health robbed him.
I always liked him.
Man, he's so young. What is he now? 55??52
https://twitter.com/BadgerMBB/status/1220412013752541184As much as they weren't my favorite uniforms, MSU did win a title in their 2000s ones, and they've never rolled them back out. The speculation is that it's related to being a Reebok school then, but this sort of puts an end to that.
Although Purdue is now 0-2 vs Illinois, with one being a horrific road loss, I do think that part of it is that we just match up terribly with Illinois.
- Wisconsin+1 at Purdue-2, Friday at 7 on FS1: We project a Purdue win. If the Badgers win it will move them to +2 and Purdue to -3. At that point something will have to be done. If Wisconsin wins I think we should move them up to tier-1 AND move Purdue down to tier-3.
I highly doubt the Badgers can pull off a road win against a pissed off Purdue team tonight.why did Delaney hate the Badgers?
And this schedule is bulljive. UW plays tonight and Monday night, both on the road. Bunch of crap. 0-2 is in the cards here.
why did Delaney hate the Badgers?MSU had that last year, and once the year before. I thought they had gotten rid of it this year? I guess it's more optics than anything. Wisconsin plays Friday night-Monday night, both road, but MSU is played Thursday night, and Sunday afternoon, both road. 8:30/3, so the games are only 66.5 hours apart. Wisconsin's games are 73.5 hours apart.
Interesting chart...Three Man Weave was discussing just how much Michigan was selling out on three point shooters, and it showed, but few teams doubled the post less than Michigan. They pointed out in a league like the Big Ten this year, with probably more teams with good bigs than we've seen in any conference in college ball since maybe the 90s, it simply doesn't make sense. That maybe in the NBA now, or in certain leagues it makes sense, but to be trying this in the Big Ten this year made no sense.
https://twitter.com/umhoops/status/1219649662833123329
Goes towards what I was saying earlier about Illinois and their matchup at Purdue. If Purdue still had guys like Carsen Edwards and Ryan Cline, they may have torched Illinois. But when Purdue has to run through the post to find any success, and Illinois defends the post better than any other offense... Not a good matchup.
Wisconsin is near the bottom of the conference in post defense, however. So Wisconsin, particularly at home where Purdue's shooting is just bad, not abysmal, is a much better matchup.
Buckeyes down 9-2 at the U16 timeout.Haha, I know it’s an emotional game, but he should at least get this year and next year. He did enough years 1 and 2 to earn that.
Gene Smith shouldn't even wait for the end of this game, he should fire Holtmann at halftime.
Maryland's Jalen Smith was majestic with his trash talk and I'm here for it.Huh?
Things also looking good for the Mark Turgeon era.
Huh?Much cursing at the end of the game. Much taunting of, I think, the student section. CBS got some good shots of it.
Much cursing at the end of the game. Much taunting of, I think, the student section. CBS got some good shots of it.He said, "this is my court".
He said, "this is my court".After the go-head bucket, CBS got him saying “F— you, F— you, b—“
Better lock him up now.
The cursing came from the fans.
Can we have the tiers pinned somewhere for those of us that don't know them by heart?Prior to this weekend they were:
If OSU moves down, then Wisc is no longer an upset.Yes, and I was expecting to move tOSU down because I thought they would lose in Evanston but they won. The difference between tier-3 (where Ohio State is now) and tier-4 is projected result in home games against tier-2 teams and road games against tier-5 teams. For the Buckeyes, those potential games are:
Thus, I propose that we make the following changes:Done.Thoughts?
- Move Michigan down to tier-3 from tier-2, and
- Move Illinois up to tier-2 from tier-3
I cannot be the only one whose happy that Rutgers are ranked and doing well.I'm pleased for them, but man, football... Maybe that will get better now with Schiano, but this I not the Big East without the big boys who left for the ACC. It will be a lot harder for him to win in this conference than that old one.
And how long has Wisconsin been an Under Armour school?
I cannot be the only one whose happy that Rutgers are ranked and doing well.Yes and no. Part of the reason we do the tiers is so that we can more easily notice if a team is actually good or just looks good because of schedule. Rutgers is a lot better than they have been, but a BIG part of their record is simply schedule. We have them in tier-3 and they have no upsets. Thus, they are actually not doing as well as Indiana and Minnesota (both tier-3 and +1 in upsets).
I'm pleased for them, but man, football... Maybe that will get better now with Schiano, but this I not the Big East without the big boys who left for the ACC. It will be a lot harder for him to win in this conference than that old one.
Under Armour, probably around 3-4 years.
After the go-head bucket, CBS got him saying “F— you, F— you, b—“Are we talking about shy Jalen Smith, or Greivis Vasquez?
Then as the game ended, he waved for more boos, said this is my court. Knelt down to tap the court and then his chest to let the fans know. And as he took another step toward the crowd (students?), he coach got up in his face screaming at him.
I enjoyed it a good deal.
Are we talking about shy Jalen Smith, or Greivis Vasquez?I found it funny and petty. Perhaps he really was pushed too far.
I hope you're not pointing fingers with that Grayson Allen clone on your team....
Anyway, Jalen took a lot of foul language thrown his way, and he's been pushed to be more aggressive and vocal, while being one of the softest spoken kids you could find.
He apologized for his behavior after the game, and those who know him, knows that's not who he is.
Indiana fans must have really said something offensive for him to snap like that.
Yeah, it's unfortunate that he lost it like that. Like MCWTerps said, he's actually an unusually soft-spoken young dude. Hopefully he learned that the best thing to do is to ignore whatever comes his way from the crowd. As good as he was in high school, he probably isn't used to all the negative attention from the other fanbase.Agreed. He dressed him down pretty good there.
I was happy with Coach Turgeon's actions and post-game comments. Same for Jalen's, although I understand that those who aren't as familiar with him don't believe it was sincere (or even his words)...
Kobe King not playing for UW tonight. Sounds like transferring is in the cards.That's really weird. He was playing well and is a key part of the team
Weird turn there.
Yeeesh.I was watching at the bar with a friend, Badgers up by 12, timeout.
Wisconsin blows a 12-point lead by allowing a 22-2 run. Yikes.
If UW doesn't make the dance, that one will sting a great deal.
That's really weird. He was playing well and is a key part of the teamRumors that he got into a blowup with the coaches.
I was watching at the bar with a friend, Badgers up by 12, timeout.Ehhh, goodish?
Thought a good time to head home.
by the time I found the game on the radio in the truck it was a 2 point lead by the Badgers soon to be reversed.
I didn't see it, but it had to be an epic collapse.
Hawk announcers touted the great defense by the Hawks
Rumors that he got into a blowup with the coaches.If he comes back and UW misses the dance by a game, Badger fans will (unfairly kind of) crap on him forever.
I still think cooler heads will prevail
I'd rather see Brad Davison leave than Kobe King.I think Davison is at a different part in his career perception-wise (well, and the groin pinching). King was existing in the freshman QB zone where his potential was often praised and his failings oft shrugged off.
Roughly middle of the B1G season KenPomI wish the Buckeyes resembled the team that earned this ranking last year.
3. OSU (13)
I think Davison is at a different part in his career perception-wise (well, and the groin pinching). King was existing in the freshman QB zone where his potential was often praised and his failings oft shrugged off.The biggest problem with Davison is that he is now a liability. He'll never get a call in his favor, unless it's blatant. Other teams know this, and they will take advantage. This hurts the Badgers.
Rumors that he got into a blowup with the coaches.Or not
I still think cooler heads will prevail
especially when a pattern of similar behavior has been previously established.”That's the only reason there's a suspension. He doesn't get it for a first offense. Ask Grayson Allen
that's not good
And... I no longer predict a top-4 finish for Big Red. Too much bad juju in the air.So your season is going into the toilet. We should start a club
I think we'll see Potter and Reuvers together a lot, which we haven't to dateHard to run against a lot of matchups because Potter is still coming along on defense.
So your season is going into the toilet. We should start a clubI'm interested to see what the rest of it looks like. The Davison thing smothers some thin upset hopes vs MSU, but he'll be back after, and then the real stretch actually begins.
Hard to run against a lot of matchups because Potter is still coming along on defense.Exactly this. So many Badger fans are clueless. It's like they haven't been paying attention to how the program has worked since 2001.
If they want to get good at playing together, that'd be peachy.
So your season is going into the toilet. We should start a clubDo I only have to pay partial dues since my team only inhabits the toilet away from Mackey Arena?
Do I only have to pay partial dues since my team only inhabits the toilet away from Mackey Arena?hate to break it to you but you are not that special. Collectively, IIRC Illinois, Iowa and MSU are the only BIG teams with a winning record on the road. Even those three are somewhere just above .500 so sure the Boilers suck on the road but so does the rest of the conference.
Actually, "inhabits the toilet" is a bad analogy. Given how poorly they shoot on the road, "circles the toilet but shi!ts on the floor" is a better one.
hate to break it to you but you are not that special. Collectively, IIRC Illinois, Iowa and MSU are the only BIG teams with a winning record on the road. Even those three are somewhere just above .500 so sure the Boilers suck on the road but so does the rest of the conference.In conference games, it's only Illinois. Iowa is 1-2 (1-3 if you count the game against PSU in Philly as a road game) and MSU is 2-2 (with one of those wins being at Northwestern).
DJ Carton taking personal time and will miss Indiana gameSounds like maybe longer? Wish him well
He was all Badger for a long time. Woulda Shoula Coulda.I'll just imagine what the homer boards would look like if he was one this year. I shudder to think.
I'm going to NYC tomorrow for the game / weekend, which is kind of full circle for my Michigan fandom since my first live game I attended was when Michigan beat Rutgers in NYC for the 2004 NIT Championship. I'm not sure what to expect, even if Simpson is back (presumably since there's been no indication otherwise), whereas I don't expect to see Livers even though supposedly he just bruised something as opposed to exacerbating his groin injury, but time will tell on that.If you mean pre-BTT, then 18 wins would be 9-11 in the Big Ten, with a non conference win over Gonzaga. I think they'd probably be in the NCAA tourney at that point
The Nebraska game was actually somewhat encouraging all things considered. They should still be able to get to 16-18 wins, regardless, which should be good enough for at least an NIT bid considering the SOS (between the BigTen and strong non-con games). Time will tell though, of course.
Kobe King interview where he basically just says he hates Greg Gard and doesn't want to play for him anymore.I'm happy he said his peace. He wasn't super forthcoming, but I approve of when people actually say the things.
https://madison.com/wsj/sports/college/basketball/men/kobe-king-says-frustration-was-building-with-coach-greg-gard/article_02dae339-204e-5788-a891-c03e908d1b0a.html
Wisconsin is playing with 6 scholarship players tomorrow. They are not beating MSU.I wouldn't bet on it, but I think that's going to be a hornet's nest tomorrow. If a bunch of Badgers just start raining threes, I wouldn't be shocked at all. Cornered badger will come out swinging claws. Maybe I still have Kohl PTSD
I wouldn't bet on it, but I think that's going to be a hornet's nest tomorrow. If a bunch of Badgers just start raining threes, I wouldn't be shocked at all. Cornered badger will come out swinging claws. Maybe I still have Kohl PTSDThe problem is that of the Badgers who have made a lot of the threes lately are not playing. One quit and the other one is a nut puncher.
The problem is that of the Badgers who have made a lot of the threes lately are not playing. One quit and the other one is a nut puncher.If Kobe had made threes, I woulda been a lot sadder to see him go.
Each team plays this weekend (12 on Saturday, two on Sunday). The games are:Actually, Maryland is off for the weekend, as your schedule shows.They get to rest up for the Scarlet Knights. I guess it's Mini-soda (6 oz) who is also off.
- Indiana+1 at Ohio State-2 Saturday at noon on ESPN: We project an Ohio State win. If Indiana wins we might have to make some changes to the tiers.
- Michigan State-1 at Wisconsin+1(+2,-1) Saturday at 1pm on Fox: We project a Wisconsin win. If Michigan State wins it just gets both teams back to even so no changes.
- Rutgers vs Michigan-2 at Madison Square Garden in NYC, Saturday at 4:30pm on BTN: We project a Michigan win but that is only because this replaces a Michigan home game and I have to treat it like a Michigan home game to keep my formulas straight. If Rutgers wins we might have to demote the Wolverines to tier-4 but I'm not sure about doing that based on a "home" loss played hundreds of miles from campus and not far from the opponent's campus.
- Penn State at Nebraska+2, Saturday at 7pm on BTN: We project a PSU win. If Nebraska wins we might have to promote them to tier-4.
- Purdue-2 at Northwestern, Saturday at 9pm on BTN: We project a Purdue win. If Northwestern wins we might have to demote Purdue.
- Illinois+3 at Iowa-1, Sunday at 1pm on FS1: We projet an Iowa win. If Illinois wins I think we will have to promote them and possibly also demote Iowa.
Actually, Maryland is off for the weekend, as your schedule shows.They get to rest up for the Scarlet Knights. I guess it's Mini-soda (6 oz) who is also off.My mistake. When I was typing in the games I had my spreadsheet scrolled down so Maryland (top line) wasn't showing. I have no idea how I missed the fact that Minnesota isn't playing this weekend, duh.
It's February! It's so beautiful. Buckeyes rolling over the Hoosiers as expected. Next victim: a reeling Wolverine team. Gonna be a great month. January is over and done with!Speak it into existence!
Yup, Kohl trumps allI'd love to be wrong about today.
They sure did. Makes you wonder about King's statement, that there are others on the team who feel the same as him.That's what I assumed you would see. A galvanized team. MSU scored enough, but giving up 43 points in the first half is inexcusable
Sure didn't look like it today. Lots of resolve is what I saw.
ELA, how are MSU fans feeling about Rocket Watts?Fine in this role, and good with an increased role going forward, but not as the primary 1. Loyer isn't that either, and I don't want to hand the keys to a true freshman in Hoggard next year. My guess is they at least take a serious look at grad transfer PG options.
Purdue managed a road win!
Sure, it was only Northwestern. Sure, they didn't score the go ahead basket until there were only three seconds left after trailing most of the game (brief leads here and there, but none since very early in the 2nd half).
But it's a conference win, away from Mackey!
I think as projected gets OSU in. The bubble is always bad, but this year is highly atrocious.The main thing that holds me back from agreeing with you is that if they go 5-5 down the stretch to finish 9-11/19-12 they probably end up playing a bad team on Wednesday in Indianapolis.
They do have some games that are on the border Q1, but if they go 5-5, at worst they add three Q2 wins and a Q1. With no bad losses, I have to imagine that’s in.
Who would have guessed in December that MSU-PSU would be the marquee game tonight, and UM-OSU would be to stave off bubble talk?It has certainly been a massive fall for both the Buckeyes and the Wolverines.
Cool bracketology. I just adore the cuteness of sending UW to play out West.Somewhere upthread I posted my annual rant about there always being too many MST/PST sites. Over the last 16 years the top-4 seeds have come from the following time zones:
Who would have guessed in December that MSU-PSU would be the marquee game tonight, and UM-OSU would be to stave off bubble talk?FWIW: M/tOSU still might be the best game to watch from a neutral fan's perspective. Maryland and Michigan State are favored substantially at home over Rutgers and Penn State respectively. Michigan is almost a pick-em at home against Ohio State. Projections based on the point spreads & O/U:
So here's some quick thoughts on Penn State basketball.FWIW, in the tourney, the refs typically allow MORE contact
5. I know it is B1G basketball, but I have to wonder if this physical style of play is going to fly come tourney time.
FWIW, in the tourney, the refs typically allow MORE contactTypically, yes. But not if your team is playing Dook, et al.
I don't think moving Nebraska makes sense. As you point out, they're currently 0-3 in games that they should have won if they were tier 4. Moving them up wouldn't change their +2 positive upsets, it would just give them 3 negative upsets. I think you chalk Nebraska up to being a blind squirrel that found a few nuts.
My thoughts: I don't think we should make any changes yet.
Yes, it sure is. The other thing is that I don't think the conference is very good.
This year is just a big mess.
I don't think moving Nebraska makes sense. As you point out, they're currently 0-3 in games that they should have won if they were tier 4. Moving them up wouldn't change their +2 positive upsets, it would just give them 3 negative upsets. I think you chalk Nebraska up to being a blind squirrel that found a few nuts.Agreed, and as you and I have discussed before, Nebraska's original projection was 1-19 so they have 19 opportunities for positive variance and only one opportunity for negative variance. With 19 chances for upset wins they were bound to get some.
I want to see what Purdue does tonight. Obviously moving them to tier 3 doesn't change either of their -2 negative upsets. If they lose to Iowa, they'd be -3. If they move to tier 3 it doesn't solve any of those upsets, but gives them a positive upset vsMSU to get them back to "only" -2.I get what you are saying, but I generally try to arrange the tiers so as to minimize the total number of upsets not to get a single team as close to even as possible. Using Purdue as an example, where they are in tier-2 they have two upsets:
This year is just a big mess.
Yes, it sure is.I disagree with both of you. We have had less upsets this year (as a percentage of games played) than usual. Maybe it just seems like a mess because your teams have been involved in more upsets than most. Total upsets per B1G team:
The other thing is that I don't think the conference is very good.This I completely disagree with. The conference is getting major respect nationally because overall the conference did very well in the OOC. I think the conference is very good.
I mean, if you put 12 teams in, as some have suggested, you might well be looking at 0-12 - unless all 12 teams get to play at home.
I disagree with both of you. We have had less upsets this year (as a percentage of games played) than usual. Maybe it just seems like a mess because your teams have been involved in more upsets than most.Actually I don't necessarily think this year is a mess because of the number of upsets.
It isn't any messier than most years. Actually, it is less messy than usual. The bottom line is that upsets happen.
Actually I don't necessarily think this year is a mess because of the number of upsets.That is definitely true. The middle 10 teams (all except UMD, MSU, UNL, and NU) are all projected to win the home games against one-another. They are also all good enough to win any of those games on the road on a good night and simultaneously bad enough to lose any of those games at home on a bad night.
I think it's a mess because home-road splits are much more prominent than usual. And I think the reason for that is that teams are much more "bunched" than usual. Most years you have a few REALLY good teams, a few really bad ones, and then stratification in the middle. This year you have pretty much every team is vulnerable to any other.
Not a bad first half from Purdue...Purdue seems to be the most extreme example of good at home, bad on the road. Doesn't even seem like the same team.
:72:
I feel much less bad about Wisconsin‘s performance at PurdueAnd MSUs
Just saw that Purdue hung a C-note on Iowa. Was it as bad as the final score indicated?Glad Wisconsin was able to clean up the dump, even while playing so poorly. Circle March 1 on your calendar...
Also, Wisconsin is currently fumigating the Barn with their rotten play.
Just saw that Purdue hung a C-note on Iowa. Was it as bad as the final score indicated?
Also, Wisconsin is currently fumigating the Barn with their rotten play.
Straight out of the Justin Fields playbook, Kobe King is now playing the race card. So, he goes from not being a fit in the program, to hating Greg Gard, to this.That article is kind of annoying. It says Fields "claimed" that he was the victim of abusive language. Yes, technically true, he did claim it, but also it was quite well documented and there was no question that it happened. In any event, this ain't the 50's anymore and that type of stuff is unacceptable in any program.
https://www.jsonline.com/story/sports/college/uw/2020/02/05/allegations-made-uw-basketball-staffer-used-racial-comments-presence-kobe-king/4675859002/
Some team is going to get a decent player for next season. Precedent is set.
https://georgiadogs.com/sports/softball/roster/jaiden-fields/4590Yeah well if someone called her a slut and ****** and from the stands and people were laughing you tell me why it's so important to not consider that in evaluating a transfer claim.
Straight out of the Justin Fields playbook, Kobe King is now playing the race card. So, he goes from not being a fit in the program, to hating Greg Gard, to this.
https://www.jsonline.com/story/sports/college/uw/2020/02/05/allegations-made-uw-basketball-staffer-used-racial-comments-presence-kobe-king/4675859002/
Some team is going to get a decent player for next season. Precedent is set.
For the five-way tie between RU, tOSU, PU, MN, and IU at 10-10 for 7th/8th/9th/10th/11th:FWIW:
The first tiebreaker is H2H2H2H2H:
- 3-2 Rutgers: Does not visit Bloomington or Minneapolis, does not host tOSU
- 3-3 Ohio State: Does not visit West Lafayette or Picastaway, lost at home to MN
- 3-3 Purdue: Does not visit Minneapolis, does not host tOSU
- 3-3 Minnesota: Does not host PU or RU, won in Columbus
- 3-4 Indiana: Does not host RU
Rutgers wins that and gets the #7 seed. Indiana loses and gets the #11 seed. The other three proceed to record against the best team(s) in the league, then the next, then the next, etc:
15-5 Maryland:
- All three are projected to go 0-season against Maryland.
14-6 Illinois:
- 1-0 Ohio State, does not visit Champaign.
- 0-2 Purdue, lost at home to the Illini.
- 0-1 Minnesota, does not host Illinois.
Thus, Ohio State gets the #8 seed and the other two move on to the next best team(s):
13-7 MSU and PSU:
- 2-0 Purdue, they do not visit either East Lansing or State College.
- 1-3 Minnesota, plays both twice, projected to lose twice to MSU and split with PSU.
December 23:Here are the changes to the projection since December 23:
(https://i.imgur.com/QoZedSs.png)
So, Kobe King was not present when the "word" was said, as part of a story being told by the trainer, about what an NBA player (probably Jordan) said in practice, many moons ago. The story was told to 3 walk-on players. Again, King was not there.
Kobe King essentially ruined a man's career, so he could attempt to get a waiver to play next season.
So, Kobe King was not present when the "word" was said, as part of a story being told by the trainer, about what an NBA player (probably Jordan) said in practice, many moons ago. The story was told to 3 walk-on players. Again, King was not there.At times, I think we overuse that phrase. He altered a man's career. He set it back. He changed it's course and certianly hurt his family in the short term (maybe long term). But it likely is not ruined.
Kobe King essentially ruined a man's career, so he could attempt to get a waiver to play next season.
Zavier Simpson apparently suspended for crashing the AD's car and then lying about his name.Worth a shot. Any cop willing to let you crash a car into a pole at 3 am, stumble around, and not breathalyze you, is probably willing to take your word that you are Jeff Jackson, and definitely not the starting PG of the basketball team.
Why was Simpson driving the AD's car?Sounds like an "improper benefit" to me...
He didn't want it to go public, until he wanted it to go public.If one wanted to be charitable, he didn't understand the mechanisms of all this. I.e., a chat with some administrators doesn't "feel" public. In fact, it's supposed to be private to a large degree.
If one wanted to be charitable, he didn't understand the mechanisms of all this. I.e., a chat with some administrators doesn't "feel" public. In fact, it's supposed to be private to a large degree.This.
Or he was gunning for that sweet, sweet waiver.
I'm not buying it. The B1G propaganda machine is in full swing.Those are just numbers. In the history of KenPom, no conference has ever been this good. Our 12th place team handed #1 their only loss.
I'm not buying it. The B1G propaganda machine is in full swing.
Those are just numbers. In the history of KenPom, no conference has ever been this good. Our 12th place team handed #1 their only loss.
I guess we'll see come March.We will see come March, but I am with ELA and the numbers and nearly everybody else.
https://twitter.com/SethDavisHoops/status/1226009041522118656?s=19For a guy once "sick and f*****g tired of losing to Purdue", I hope he leaves Ass Hall exhausted.
Purdue scores only 37 on the road at Illinois...Really? 37?
MSU: Hold my beer.
Me too. Whathttps://www.12up.com/posts/bobby-knight-tackles-dick-vitale-on-live-tv-indiana-purdue-assembly-hall-01e0k9b1k1n8
Rutgers appears to be in full on collapseNevermind, erased a 10 point deficit at home against Northwestern in the final 4 minutes to win.
At times, I think we overuse that phrase. He altered a man's career. He set it back. He changed it's course and certianly hurt his family in the short term (maybe long term). But it likely is not ruined.I hope you mean to say something like, "Alas, a lot of things that aren't fair keep happening."
It's also worth noting, he did some things to put himself in a bad situation. Some things you say in a role that is in part educator could land you in hot water. The same way you can often drive after four beers and not face consequences does not make it anyone's fault when you do. That said, Kobe was also reckless with his actions. I don't know how thought out any of it was (did someone suggest the waiver? Was he just feeling highly open to an open-ended question?) and it's one of those unfortunate instances that happens.
I don't think it's all that fair, but I don't think a lot of things are fair, and alas the world keeps spinning.
"We’re more than just basketball players. We have real life things going on, and that was having an impact on my play."
If Purdue beats PSU tonight, and particularly if they continue to show some of the trends that have been coming in the last 4-5 games, I think they're still a tier 2 team.The difference between tier-2 and tier-3 is razor thin. The games it makes a difference for are home games against tier-1 and road games against tier-4 but there is only one tier-1 team (UMD) and only one tier-4 team (M). Worse, PU doesn't host Maryland so it is actually only one game, the road game at Michigan and Purdue lost that back on January 9.
The difference between tier-2 and tier-3 is razor thin. The games it makes a difference for are home games against tier-1 and road games against tier-4 but there is only one tier-1 team (UMD) and only one tier-4 team (M). Worse, PU doesn't host Maryland so it is actually only one game, the road game at Michigan and Purdue lost that back on January 9.I get that. And their remaining schedule is:
If we moved Purdue to tier-2 their projection would not change, they'd still be projected to finish 11-9. However, their loss in Ann Arbor would become a negative upset for them and a positive upset for Michigan which would:
- Move PU from -1 to -2 (+1, -3)
- Move M from +1 to +2 (+3, -1).
Maybe I should be glad MSU just kept it close against PSU.Wow, and PSU is without Myron Jones? Their 2nd best player
Maybe I should be glad MSU just kept it close against PSU.Hard to compete when you're 1-11 from 3 and the other team is 12-22.
Ugh, hopefully Ayo is ok.Considering that was MSU on the other side against VT, Indiana, Wisconsin and PSU (digging a huge hole, clawing back, just to lose) I do feel for you.
Glad the fought back from a blow out but damn that was tough.
The biggest change has been at the 4. Something lit a major fire under Evan Boudreaux, who was in a shooting slump and didn't seem to be in the game early in the season. He's been playing with energy, tearing it up rebounding, getting put-backs, driving to the hoop, and found his 3pt shot again. Likewise, Aaron Wheeler started the year VERY poorly. He was doing all the little things (defense, rebounding, hustle, etc) but couldn't buy a bucket. He's started to play with confidence, his shots are falling, and he's one of our better post-feeders with his height. The improvement at the 4 has been huge, and that opens up the offense considerably.Well, this aged poorly.
Penn St is the best team.There it is. The death knell.
There it is. The death knell.Wisconsin is not the best team, I can assure you,
Michigan is the best team.
No, Ohio State is the best team.
No, Michigan State is the best team.
No, XXX is the best team...
Frankly, I think Maryland is the best team....:72:
In the 18 year history of KenPom, only that weird Shabazz Napier won team won a national title without being Top 20 in adjusted efficiency both offensive and defensive.Is that pre-or-post tourney?
Right now, that's 5 teams, #1 Kansas, #3 Duke, #4 San Diego State, #9 Michigan State, #11 Penn State
Wisconsin is not the best team, I can assure you,Nebraska is not the best team, but may have had the best performance of Maryland's home opponents
Nebraska is not the best team, but may have had the best performance of Maryland's home opponentsWe were lucky to win that one, as well as at Indiana. There are so many excellent players on every team.
Honest question: does it irritate you all that Maryland, a newbie from the East, is in first place? They've done well in sports, but no titles in the major ones (football, men's basketball). I always wondered what to expect.Buckeye Fan, I love that the Terps are doing great.
I'm trying to keep in mind how us old-guard ACC people viewed the newbies, of which there are many, as they joined up. I was on the other side of it then, obviously...
Honest question: does it irritate you all that Maryland, a newbie from the East, is in first place? They've done well in sports, but no titles in the major ones (football, men's basketball). I always wondered what to expect.Not even a little bit. Helps that there aren't really any dislikable players on this year's Maryland squad.
Honest question: does it irritate you all that Maryland, a newbie from the East, is in first place? They've done well in sports, but no titles in the major ones (football, men's basketball). I always wondered what to expect.No. I don't really think of them or Rutgers as a newbie anymore, and Maryland's basketball program was a draw for them
I'm trying to keep in mind how us old-guard ACC people viewed the newbies, of which there are many, as they joined up. I was on the other side of it then, obviously...
MRI showed no structural damage in Ayo's knee. Best possible news. Hopefully he is able to bounce back soon.That's so great.
Honest question: does it irritate you all that Maryland, a newbie from the East, is in first place? They've done well in sports, but no titles in the major ones (football, men's basketball). I always wondered what to expect.Short answer, no.
I'm trying to keep in mind how us old-guard ACC people viewed the newbies, of which there are many, as they joined up. I was on the other side of it then, obviously...
Besides, I read @mcwterps1 (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=1590) 's posts so I know that the Terps are terrible and the bottom will fall out soon and they'll be lucky to finish above .500 ;)No. They're not THAT bad, but they are extremely lucky to be where they are.
Nebraska is one of the schools that has reportedly shown interest in former Wisconsin guard Kobe King, who departed from the Badgers in late January after a situation that ultimately led to a strength coach leaving his job.That isn't why he left. It's what he's using to be eligible next season.
According to Mark Miller, who writes for WisSports.Net and is tied into King from his high school days, other schools besides the Huskers to reach out to King include Iowa State, Xavier and Northern Iowa.
Nebraska is one of the schools that has reportedly shown interest in former Wisconsin guard Kobe King, who departed from the Badgers in late January after a situation that ultimately led to a strength coach leaving his job.Hoiberg has been portalling since before the portal. I'm curious as to see whether this makes it easier for him, or harder, because more schools are willing to look to transfers now.
According to Mark Miller, who writes for WisSports.Net and is tied into King from his high school days, other schools besides the Huskers to reach out to King include Iowa State, Xavier and Northern Iowa.
That was an enjoyable post. Speaking of a rude football awakening when joining the B1G -- I knew Maryland would struggle, but I had no idea how tough this league was. Even the so-called bad teams can throw waves and waves of solid players at their opponents. The ACC wasn't like that. They had some talented teams, but once you got past the 1-2 deep it wasn't very impressive. Maryland was always like that as well, in my opinion, even in their successful years.
I remember way back when PSU joined. One of my friends in HS was a big PSU fan. He told me repeatedly how PSU was going to dominate the "old" Big Ten in football. Their first year they lost two games:I was at the game in Columbus and a few weeks later I was home for Thanksgiving and I saw my friend. I told him I enjoyed seeing JoPa in the flesh (as a CFB fan, I did) and then I said "losses to Michigan and Ohio State, welcome to the Big Ten!"
- 21-13 at home to Michigan, and
- 24-6 in Columbus.
;)
OSU's offense is either a wide open three or a turnoverYeah offense is hit and miss. The defense and rebounding has been much better.
OSU's offense is either a wide open three or a turnoverPurdue's offense is sputtering. This isn't like @Illinois where Purdue ran their offense and just couldn't shoot. They're not moving the ball, not getting the ball into the paint, and just not getting open looks.
Kyle Young has an awkward 12 points. The definition of manufacturing points. He is probably the least athletic big this side of Evanston.Young? I consider him our most athletic player so I hope not. Anyways, a healthy looking win to get back to .500 in league play.
Young? I consider him our most athletic player so I hope not. Anyways, a healthy looking win to get back to .500 in league play.Really? He can jump and finish when open, but has no ability to break down a defender. He is smart with the ball and has good fundamentals, but it's rough watching him sometimes. It's pretty much dunk/layup or nothing.
Really? He can jump and finish when open, but has no ability to break down a defender. He is smart with the ball and has good fundamentals, but it's rough watching him sometimes. It's pretty much dunk/layup or nothing.He could definitely use some more skill in his game, like that 37 year old guy playing for Purdue who wore us out all game
Seems like the consensus catalyst for the comeback was the slapping of the floor.Because a team Maryland used to lose to at a high rate and has not faced since the oldest current scholarship Terp was 16 did it? Is that why?
I won't mention why.
Because a team Maryland used to lose to at a high rate and has not faced since the oldest current scholarship Terp was 16 did it? Is that why?
Because a team Maryland used to lose to at a high rate and has not faced since the oldest current scholarship Terp was 16 did it? Is that why?Ignorant answer.
Ignorant answer.Did Gary Williams hold a .264 winning percentage against Duke? Did I read that right? If so, I think "lose to at a high rate" is pretty damn accurate.
There are only 2 other teams in the country that beat Duke more than we did who played on a regular basis, and one if you count the start of the Gary Williams era.
Nice try.
Did Gary Williams hold a .264 winning percentage against Duke? Did I read that right? If so, I think "lose to at a high rate" is pretty damn accurate.He did. Since the hated K arrived, Maryland has lost 68.8 percent of the time. And if you said that was the third best, I might believe you.
Did Gary Williams hold a .264 winning percentage against Duke? Did I read that right? If so, I think "lose to at a high rate" is pretty damn accurate.You'd have to do some digging to find a stat like, and since you liked the previous post about slapping the floor, from badger, I'm curious as to your interest in it?
You'd have to do some digging to find a stat like, and since you liked the previous post about slapping the floor, from badger, I'm curious as to your interest in it?That's Maryland winning 34.9 percent. I guess I'm just not excited about it. When y'all played significantly, Maryland slotted in as maybe the second-biggest rival, probably closer to third.
They've won 110, we've won 63. Not a split by any means, but not the blistering high rate you make it seem.
So, where you might not think it's significant, or others may think it's cool, Maryland teams don't like the pompousness of it, and no matter the age, Marylander's know it from those ACC days, and find it disrespectful.
Any Maryland player that slaps the floor, get quite an earful by the Maryland faithful.
None of this is to slight Mich St, as they are no where near full strength, but to derail the original post as if it has no significance today, is absurd.
It puts a ton of weight on tomorrow. If UW can win at home against a schizophrenic Purdue team, it only needs to beat NW at home and go 1-3 in a run of at Mich, Minnesota at home, Rutgers at home and at IU to get to 14. If they wanna in win two or three of those games, that'd be peachy too.I don't know what to think for tomorrow. I think UW is a team that Purdue matches up very well with. But it's on the road, which has been the bane of Purdue. But it's on the road at the Kohl Center, where Purdue wins more than most other conference foes...
I don't know what to think for tomorrow. I think UW is a team that Purdue matches up very well with. But it's on the road, which has been the bane of Purdue. But it's on the road at the Kohl Center, where Purdue wins more than most other conference foes...I like none of this logic.
I feel like Purdue needs 4 more wins. They're 14-12 now, and I think 18 wins gets them in. Whether that's 4-1 regular season and losing first round BTT to finish 18-14, or 3-2 regular season and winning first round BTT to finish 18-15 or better (if they win more than one), I think it gets there.
But I don't trust Purdue to go 3-0 at home, so picking up either @Wisconsin or @Iowa would REALLY help. I think matchup-wise, @Wisconsin is the more likely shot, but I'm not confident.
Purdue within 3 at the half. One of their better road performances.Made it very unpleasant.
Purdue needs at least 3 of the next 4, as you point out. But even with the three home wins that'll just be 17-14. I think they need one BTT win on top of that to be on the right side of the bubble. If somehow they went 4-0 in the remaining regular season games to finish 18-13, I think they'd be safe regardless of the BTT.We are on the same page. I like the set-up for PU down the stretch with three of four at home (M, IU, R). We project them to win those, lose in Iowa City, and finish 17-14/10-10.
I think their strength of schedule and the quality of their wins make 18 the magic number right now.
It's just crazy.
Maryland could clinch as early as next Wednesday, February 26. If they win in Columbus (Sunday) and Minneapolis (next Wednesday) they would improve to 14-3. Thus, the worst they could do would be 14-6. That would eliminate IU, MN, tOSU, M. Additionally, it would mean that IA, RU, IL, MSU, and UW could do no better than a tie (if they win out from today forward). That only leaves PSU and the Nittany Lions are currently 10-5 so the best they can do is 15-5. Between now and next Wednesday they visit Bloomington and host Rutgers. If Penn State were to lose either of those games then Maryland would clinch at least a share of the title by beating Ohio State and Minnesota.
Does the committee still put weight on the last 10 games?I believe no
Does the committee still put weight on the last 10 games?I thought that was done away with.
I thought that was done away with.Why would you not want the last 10 to count more? You know, power rankings and all that?
And thank God.
Why would you not want the last 10 to count more? You know, power rankings and all that?Same reason we do these tiers. Some schedules are front or back loaded. Just not an objective measurement really.
Let's say Maryland lost Cowin for their last 6. Would they be as good?
Why would you not want the last 10 to count more? You know, power rankings and all that?I also hate basing resumes on injuries. Your resume should be your resume IMO.
Let's say Maryland lost Cowin for their last 6. Would they be as good?
Why would you not want the last 10 to count more? You know, power rankings and all that?Several reasons
Let's say Maryland lost Cowin for their last 6. Would they be as good?
Does the committee still put weight on the last 10 games?Lots of commentary on this issue.
Why would you not want the last 10 to count more? You know, power rankings and all that?Stay away from Cowan. I don't like where your head is at. LOL
Let's say Maryland lost Cowin for their last 6. Would they be as good?
Locks:I updated the above. I believe that last night's winners (IA and MSU) are now locks.
This is a quick rehash of a discussion that we seem to have every year around this time. I define a "Lock" as a team that could literally lose EVERY remaining game including getting the worst possible opponent in BTT games, and face the strongest possible bubble and STILL make the tournament. Ie, I am VERY conservative in the use of the term "LOCK". I'm putting this here because as we get closer to the NCAA Tournament it will come up.
Right now, as I see it:
4 Locks:1 Should be in (Definitely in if the tournament started today, but can't just mail in the rest of the season):
- 22-4/12-3 Maryland: They do not face either UNL or NU down the stretch so any losses that they did take would be at least "not bad". If they lost out they would end the regular season 12-8/22-9 and even with a quick exit in Indianapolis and what would be a six-game losing streak I am confident that they would get in at 22-10.
- 20-6/10-5 Penn State: If they lost out they would end the regular season 10-10/20-11 and even with a quick exit in Indianapolis and what would be a seven-game losing streak I am confident that they would get in at 20-12.
- 19-8/10-6 Iowa: Their worst-case-scenario is now 19-13 and that would be enough for them. Even if they lost out, none of the losses (@MSU, vPSU, vPU, @IL, BTT) would be all that bad.
- 18-9/10-6 Michigan State: Their worst-case-scenario is now 18-14 and that would be enough for them. Even if they lost out, none of the losses (vIA, @UMD, @PSU, vtOSU, BTT) would be all that bad.
5 Work to do (Probably in if the tournament started today, but need to keep winning to stay there):
- 17-9/9-6 Illinois: They just had a huge win at PSU but prior to that they lost four straight. Losing out would put them at 17-15, on a six-game skid, and losers of 10 of their last 11 games. Additionally, at least two of the losses would be bad losses (vUNL, @NU). IMHO, that would not get them in.
2 Significant work to do (borderline if the tournament started today, needs improvement):
- 16-10/9-6 Wisconsin: Based solely on their league record they should be in but their OOC is not good. The four OOC losses were to St Marys (3rd in the WCC), Richmond (3rd in the A10), New Mexico (sub .500 in the MWC), and NCST (.500 in the ACC). The biggest wins were Marquette (~.500 BE) and Tennessee (~.500 SEC). They clearly have some nice wins in conference but they still have work to do.
- 18-9/9-7 Rutgers: Their league record is good, but they haven't actually done anything all that impressive. Note that they have zero upset wins per the tiers. They have done a good job of protecting the home court but their only win away from home all year was at Nebraska. Their OOC is a nice win over Seton Hall, a rod loss to Pitt (sub .500 in the ACC), a neutral site loss to St Bonaventure (4th in the A10) and a whole bunch of crap. They are in a good position right now but they still have work to do.
- 17-9/7-8 Ohio State: Their league record is obviously mediocre but they have a solid OOC. They would be in if the tournament started today but they clearly have work to do.
- 17-9/8-7 Michigan: Their league record is mediocre but they have a solid OOC. Their two OOC losses were to (still) highly ranked L'Ville and Oregon teams and they still have this year's only win over Gonzaga. They would be in if the tournament started today but they clearly have work to do.
- 17-9/7-8 Indiana: Their OOC was pretty weak but they rolled through it with the exception of an ugly home loss to Arkansas (4-9 SEC). In conference they have mostly won at home (except for losses to PU and UMD) and lost on the road (except for wins at UNL and MN). The recent win in Minneapolis REALLY helps. It would REALLY help if they could win in West Lafayette to compensate for the earlier home loss to PU. That and three home wins would get them to a .500 finish in conference.
2 Need to win BTT:
- 14-13/7-9 Purdue: The OOC wasn't terrible but it wasn't very good either. Three of the four losses were to currently ranked teams (Marquette, FSU, Butler) but the other one was at home to a Texas team that is 4-8 in the B12. In conference they have won the home games (with the exceptions of IL and PSU) and lost the road games (with the exceptions of NU and IU). The best news is that three of their last four are at home (M, IU, RU). If they win those they'll finish at least .500 in the league. If not they could be in trouble.
- 12-13/6-9 Minnesota: The OOC was not good and in conference they have a few nice wins (2xtOSU, M, PSU, UW) but they also have a slew of losses. Their biggest problem right now is that they are UNDER .500 overall so they need wins, lots of wins. They are going to need to win the games they should win and pull off an upset or two to get to the dance. With the recent home loss to Indiana, the Gophers are out of time. They need to start winning, NOW. I do think that they still have at least a theoretical shot at an at-large bid but they are going to drop into the "need to win BTT" category VERY soon if they don't start winning.
- 7-19/2-13 Nebraska: Two of the Huskers' first three league home games were Purdue and Iowa and they won them both. Unfortunately that was a LONG time ago and they are now on a 10 game skid. The best they could do without winning the BTT would be 17-19 and that would not be enough.
- 6-19/1-14 Northwestern: The best they could do without winning the BTT would be 15-20 and that would not be enough.
Stick a fork in Purdue.Can't spell Painter without N - I - T. :57:
Can't spell Painter without N - I - T. :57:Gotta finish. 500 to qualify for the NIT.
Stick a fork in Purdue.Yeah, that might be the end of the road for the Boilermakers. They now have 14 losses and 15 is the most ever for an at-large team so that isn't good
Yeah, that might be the end of the road for the Boilermakers. They now have 14 losses and 15 is the most ever for an at-large team so that isn't goodFWIW:
Gotta finish. 500 to qualify for the NIT.The way I've been going lately, you should probably want me to
Would you put money on that?
FWIW:Absolutely true. To be honest I could see them making it at 18-15. I still think 18 is the magic number, and 19 is a certainty. I think they missed a chance for a really good win against Michigan, but a road win over Iowa would be an even bigger win.
I do not think that Purdue is in the "Needs to win BTT" category quite yet. I am just as literal with that as I am with "Lock". Thus, I look at Purdue's best possible argument for an at-large bid. At this point that would be:I think they would be in.
- 14-14/7-10 now:
- Beat Indiana Thursday to move to 15-14/8-10
- Win at Iowa next Tuesday to move to 16-14/9-10
- Beat Rutgers Sat 3/7 to move to 17-14/10-10
- Win Thursday BTT game to move to 18-14
- Win B1G Quarter-final to move to 19-14
- Win B1G Semi-final to move to 20-14
- Lost B1GCG to finish 20-15
IU is perfectly capable of blowing a 19 point home lead, but assuming they don't, Maryland can all but wrap up a Big Ten title this afternoon.18-0 PSU run, right on cue
UW offense and shooting showed up. A little ragged late, but I’ll take it.MSU screwed up by burning the 2000s throwbacks against a good opponent. Now nobody wants to roll them back out.
Badgers one win from being a near lock to dance. NW should be that, but if they want to beat Minnesota before then, I wouldn’t mind. At Michigan on Thursday, that ain’t gonna be good.
Absolutely true. To be honest I could see them making it at 18-15. I still think 18 is the magic number, and 19 is a certainty. I think they missed a chance for a really good win against Michigan, but a road win over Iowa would be an even bigger win.Purdue is still rated higher by KenPom than any SEC school, and all but 3 of the ACC schools, all but 4 of the Big XII.
What I'm saying is that I have absolutely no confidence this team will get to 18. I think 2-1 in our remaining regular season games is best-case the way this team is imploding, and I don't see them winning 2 BTT games, given how badly they've played on the road. I doubt we lose out in the regular season, but 1-2 wouldn't shock me at all to be below .500 heading into the BTT.
2 fouls perfectly called on Smith, Chol, and Scott inside, which is pretty impressive given how many 3's OSU has shot.Don't forget where Muhammed called called for a foul for getting elbowed in the face. B1G trying to get Maryland that 1 seed
Pretty effective foul calling where it counts.
Wesson has walked 10 miles already with no call.
Other than that, the B1G and OSU have played great.
Don't forget where Muhammed called called for a foul for getting elbowed in the face. B1G trying to get Maryland that 1 seedNo fouls against OSU until the last 2 minutes of the half, and every inside player for Maryland with 2.
Refs give a three point foul on Wesson on no contact.That was ticky tack. They made up for it on Cowan's drive.
Well that was unexpected.Not for Maryland fans. Those quotes are from Maryland fans in the team boards in Rivals.
Not for Maryland fans. Those quotes are from Maryland fans in the team boards in Rivals.A college fanbase believes the powers that be are aligned against them? I'm floored by this. So unusual.
Not a single Maryland fan believes that the Big Ten will allow Maryland to win the Big Ten Championship outright let alone the Big Ten Tournament.
Until that happens, we'll always believe the B1G just protects its big boys.
Odd that the Big Ten allows the Terps to rake in so many titles in w hoops, lacrosse, w lacrosse, field hockey, soccer, etc.They don't matter
A college fanbase believes the powers that be are aligned against them? I'm floored by this. So unusual.Mike Eades, is that you?
(Lots of fans believe this. It neither makes Maryland fans particularly unusual or correct. But it is one way to choose to consume sports, and I suppose I will not get in the way of the decision to think such things are in play. As for today, y'all lost a game you were not favored to win. It happens)
Mike Eades, is that you?
Late post, but big win by Michigan yesterday. Best defensive showing against a decent team all season, which was nice to see, especially on the road. It was probably Wagner's best game yet, as well. The team is finally playing to its potential again, and Livers' injuries may have been a blessing in disguise in forcing Johns to emerge while also hindering Livers' draft stock so he'll likely come back next year. Supposedly Brooks' injury wasn't serious, thankfully.Barring something crazy, y’all probably got this. UW does not have a super high ceiling, and your team is on one and at home.
Wisconsin is next....
Barring something crazy, y’all probably got this. UW does not have a super high ceiling, and your TV is on one and at home.I agree though I have no idea what that phrase means. I guess Michigan is on channel 1, so they are clicking right now?
I agree though I have no idea what that phrase means. I guess Michigan is on channel 1, so they are clicking right now?I means I was using talk to type.
UW is playing with 6 scholarship players (+1 other who has a scholarship, but is not a B1G player).Tough to win B1G road games with that mix, especially against a fairly good team.Your math is off. It's seven scholarship guys, plus Anderson.
I think Ohio State and Michigan are locks now. Wisconsin and Rutgers are like one more win away. Indiana is basically the only bubble team at this point, but barring collapse they should be in also.I disagree because, as discussed above, I am pretty hardcore about being literal with the term lock. Thus, I will not call a team a lock until I think that they could lose out, get the worst possible BTT match-up, lose that, and still make it. Vis-a-vis Ohio State and Michigan:
EDIT: Rutgers has a tough finishing stretch. They could be in a little danger here.
2 Significant work to do (no change):I've been thinking more about it... Purdue has two scenarios IMHO:
- 14-14/7-10 Purdue: The home loss to Michigan this weekend hurts and now they can do no better than .500 in regular season league games. They have now lost four straight (vPSU, @tOSU, @UW, vM) and while none of those are bad losses, they are down to .500 overall and rapidly running out of time to start winning. They host IU in what is probably a must-win game this week.
A short rant:What did they drop in?
#1 Baylor, #2 Gonzaga, #4 SDSU, and #7 Maryland all lost this weekend. They each dropped one spot except for Maryland who dropped two spots. That is frankly ridiculous. The Terps got hosed:
- Baylor lost at home to #3 Kansas. Kansas is now #1 in the NET rankings.
- Gonzaga lost on the road to #23 BYU. BYU is now #14 in the NET rankings.
- SDSU lost at home to unranked UNLV. UNLV is now #112 in the NET rankings.
- Maryland lost on the road to #25 Ohio State. Ohio State is now #19 in the NET rankings.
One of these things is not like the others. Baylor, Maryland, and even Gonzaga lost tough games. SDSU doesn't even know what a tough game is and they lost anyway. SDSU should have been banished from the top-10 and shouldn't even be considered for a #1 seed.
Here is a comparison of the B1G, the MWC, and Gonzaga's WCC by rankings of their teams in the NET:
- #10 UMD, #5 SDSU, #3 Gonzaga
- #13 MSU, #38 UtahSt, #14 BYU
- #19 tOSU, #80 Nevada, #32 St. Marys
- #22 M, #105 ColoradoSt, #97 San Francisco
- #25 PSU, #112 UNLV, , #109 Pacific
- #27 IA, #148 NM, #132 Pepperdine
- #29 UW, #163 Fresno, #137 Santa Clara
- #34 RU, #226 Air Force, #204 LMU
- #35 IL, #280 SJSU, #211 SDSU
- #36 PU, #285 Wyoming, #278 Portland
- #42 MN,
- #52 IU,
- #177 NU,
- #186, UNL,
The top teams are roughly equivalent and #2 is equivalent for the WCC. After that the comparison gets ridiculous. The third best team in the B1G is a quality tournament team. The third best team in the MWC is #80 Nevada and in the WCC it is St. Marys.
The farther you go the worse it gets for the MWC and WCC. At #5 the B1G is still in the top-25 while the MWC and WCC are #112 and #109.
SDSU's closest contender in the MWC is #38 UtahSt. They would be 11th in the B1G.
I wish playing in a crappy conference made you a crappy team. Then we would have beaten ClemsonI get that playing in a crappy conference does not automatically make you a crappy team but note that Clemson went undefeated in their crappy conference.
I get that playing in a crappy conference does not automatically make you a crappy team but note that Clemson went undefeated in their crappy conference.Maryland has played 10 teams worst than UNLV per KenPom. Two of them are within like 10 spots, but 8 are 25 spots or worse.
SDSU's recent loss to UNLV, at home no less, would be the equivalent of Maryland losing to one of the worst teams on their schedule.
I get that playing in a crappy conference does not automatically make you a crappy team but note that Clemson went undefeated in their crappy conference.Yeah but shit happens. Clemson nearly lost to North Carolina. Duke lost to Stephen F. Austin. SDSU has 1 loss and is fifth on KenPom so it's not like they are some pretender.
SDSU's recent loss to UNLV, at home no less, would be the equivalent of Maryland losing to one of the worst teams on their schedule.
Maryland has played 10 teams worst than UNLV per KenPom. Two of them are within like 10 spots, but 8 are 25 spots or worse.I'm starting to think you've got a problem with Maryland, or me.
That said, losing to the 8th worst team on Maryland's schedule at home ain't great.
I'm starting to think you've got a problem with Maryland, or me.He invoked Maryland’s schedule with an inaccurate comparison.
nice win vs the Hawks and GarzaTillman picking up two quickly hurt, Garza destroyed anyone else MSU out on him. But Tillman, when he played, really shut him down. You'll let Garza have 20 every night if it takes him 21 shots to get there. Gabe Brown reverted back into the pumpkin he had been pre-Nebraska, but Rocket picked up the slack.
But Tillman, when he played, really shut him down.Say what you want about Winston but IMO, Tillman's defense on Garza was the difference maker. Granted, Garza did miss some wide open 3s that he would normally had made but I think Tillman just wore him down enough that partially caused those misses. Wieskamp's struggles may have been indirectly effected as well. Iowa needs at least one of them to control the game in the last 10 minutes to win, MSU did a great job making sure that didn't happen.
I mean, I haven't heard him complain about the refs in a while ...I haven't seen you complain in.. 36 hours.
https://247sports.com/college/maryland/Article/Maryland-Turgeon-Complain-Big-Ten-Referees-Anthony-Cowan-Technical-Foul-144267495/
I haven't seen you complain in.. 36 hours.I'm looking back and I don't see anything about "B1G Refs" in what I wrote.
Is there even such a thing as B1G refs? And, if so, are "they" biased against the best B1G team?
Minn Williams picks up a BS call to make it look like an evenly called game for the easily manipulated stat gurus.(https://i.imgur.com/OP2qGdi.jpg)
I'm looking back and I don't see anything about "B1G Refs" in what I wrote.Prediction was wrong.
I'll keep looking, but haven't seen it yet.
My prediction....
We lose at Minn by some "questionable" calls, ESPN comes to CP for the Mich St game, and Mich St ties up the B1G race with a win in our court in our first home loss, and eventually takes over for a "story of the year" season for Izzo.
I mean, the B1G practically writes itself.
Prediction was wrong.Maryland has to write it's own future.
Weird how the refs has all sorts of ways to get in the way of the win and didn’t. Must’ve been written differently than someone thought.
Maryland has to write it's own future.You’d think if you had a thumb on the scale, like actually did, you wouldn’t leave it close enough for that. You’d probably turn every close call against Maryland and not put Cowan on the line down the stretch.
Everything went against them, and the one guy who you'd NEVER want to shoot, who missed 8 layups, hits the game winner from damn near half court.
The refs weren't expecting that.
You’d think if you had a thumb on the scale, like actually did, you wouldn’t leave it close enough for that. You’d probably turn every close call against Maryland and not put Cowan on the line down the stretch.I agree. You're on to something.
But there’s probably some conspiratorial reason beyond the utterly simple one.
I agree. You're on to something.You’re not totally explaining this graphic clearly. If Maryland lost, it would still be up, and the game in EL wouldn’t actually clinch anything.
Now, on a serious note, did anyone catch the graphic they had pre-made for after that game?
Something about Maryland and MSU? My wife seems to believe it said something about a Maryland loss would tie the B1G regular season championship with MSU.
Now, that would only happen had we lost that game against Minn, right?
Unless, they had that graphic already made expecting us to lose...
You’re not totally explaining this graphic clearly. If Maryland lost, it would still be up, and the game in EL wouldn’t actually clinch anything.I honestly did not see it. My wife saw it and told me. I can see it later, as I recorded it.
It are you saying a Crew producing a game, which can only have two outcomes, would only create a graphic for an outcome if it knew that outcome was preordained? It would have no reason to create such a thing either beforehand for both outcomes or at least when one side was down most of the game?
I'm looking back and I don't see anything about "B1G Refs" in what I wrote.Did you post this article?
I'll keep looking, but haven't seen it yet.
I haven't seen you complain in.. 36 hours.I actually find myself watching Maryland games to see if the officiating is one-sided
Is there even such a thing as B1G refs? And, if so, are "they" biased against the best B1G team?
I still think they need to go to a 100% challenge based replay system. You get it wrong, you lose a timeout. Such a great ending, and those three reviews, mixed with the timeouts, really sucked a lot of the life out of it until that shot. The Elam ending helps, but does nothing for the review issue.And this is my point...
And this is my point...It's excruciating. Couple replays with timeouts and fouls and the ending of good basketball games can be torture. I remember going to a Maryland-WVU NCAA tourney game some years back. It wasn't even that great, and pre-replay, but by the end I vowed to never go to another tourney game in my life.
https://twitter.com/kenpomeroy/status/1232894530329776129?s=20
Bucks at Nebraska tonight, which is good. But they are short handed, which is bad. Carton still out, and Young and Gaffney will also be out. Only 8 guys available tonight, and only six who play consistent minutes, though Ahrens has played a bit lately. May see some Diallo tonight.Nebraska is the team most shorthanded in the B1G
Did you post this article?I pasted that article. I didn't write it.
https://247sports.com/college/maryland/Article/Maryland-Turgeon-Complain-Big-Ten-Referees-Anthony-Cowan-Technical-Foul-144267495/ (https://247sports.com/college/maryland/Article/Maryland-Turgeon-Complain-Big-Ten-Referees-Anthony-Cowan-Technical-Foul-144267495/)
I'm expecting UW to lose tonight. Based on the usual road performances agains good teams, might be done early.Hi there. I was wrong.
20 points scored at the U8 media timeout.The Virginia-VT game was like 20-11 at halftime yesterday
That's combined by both teams...
Purdue up 11-9.
I'd wonder if the rims are regulation, but these teams aren't even hitting iron half the time :smiley_confused1:
Hi there. I was wrong.Thought UM was going to keep the trend alive this week, with all four previous games having a team blow a double digit lead (although PSU subsequently won), but UW hit enough threes and UM missed too many clutch FTs.
That was a HELL of a win.
I guess the Badgers are good. Addition by subtraction about a month ago seems to have made a huge difference.
It's March! KenPomAnd they might not even make the NIT, let alone the NCAAs.
8. Purdue (25)
11. Minny (32)
And they might not even make the NIT, let alone the NCAAs.Very much so, especially when you keep dropping close ones and couldn't corral a decent number of OOC chances.
Bad year to be a merely decent team in the Big Ten.
I haven't been on this site much since the transition but came here specifically for Medina's breakdowns and projections, they are great.Thank you!
Medina, didn't you used to put together a chart as well that showed the likely impact of the schedule on the standings as well?I did, but it was posted way back early in the season. Here is the chart:
Feb is my favorite month. Mr. Medina, is it time to lock it up?Yes! I think that both Ohio State, Illinois, and Wisconsin locked up bids last night which brings us to an update on that list:
And they might not even make the NIT, let alone the NCAAs.Also waking up and seeing it's still February.
Bad year to be a merely decent team in the Big Ten.
I can't believe Maryland only has a 13-3 edge in fouls this half. Big Ten is just screwing them.Really? Should have been many more, but the lights out shooting took it out of the refs hands.
It certainly kills any pretend argument about the Big Ten trying to screw themWho won? Smith, again, was getting hammered under the rim all night.
Who won? Smith, again, was getting hammered under the rim all night.I'm not complaining about the refs. I'm just saying, when, with a Big Ten title on the line, the MSU has 13 fouls called on them when Maryland has 3, you certainly can't argue they are actively trying to screw Maryland. Even despite what a neutral account like "TerpsWatch" thinks. Hopefully Mark Turgeon got home on time.
You allow that, and Maryland can't run their offense.
Good job by Izzo to follow the previous 2 teams play and take advantage of the loose whistles by the zebras.
Making up for it on the 2nd half with such a great lead and no calls against our guys, (who know HOW to get to the line ), I'd say proves just the opposite.
B1G plan is being followed perfectly.
https://twitter.com/TerpsWatch/status/1233931670396514305?s=19
How did it take 30 years for LMU to put up a Hank Gathers statue?This lead me to look at Paul Westhead's career, arguably the most insane coaching career I've ever seen.
This lead me to look at Paul Westhead's career, arguably the most insane coaching career I've ever seen.That needs to be a 30 for 30. Wildly successful at two mid-majors, but a total failure at the third. Won a title in his first NBA season, but was run out by his star. Was horrible in both other NBA stints, but coached a crazy fun Nuggets team. Won a WNBA title. Just all over the place.
I'm not complaining about the refs. I'm just saying, when, with a Big Ten title on the line, the MSU has 13 fouls called on them when Maryland has 3, you certainly can't argue they are actively trying to screw Maryland. Even despite what a neutral account like "TerpsWatch" thinks. Hopefully Mark Turgeon got home on time.Yes, because the simple minded thinking of the number of fouls is indicative of how the game is called.
Please explain how, even in a game called this lopsided, you can still point to an anti-Maryland bias? Again, I'm not complaining, I just don't see any way humanly possible for Maryland fans to complain. Then again, the coach complains about tip times, so maybe as goes the head.And ended his career as an unsuccessful coach of the Oregon women's team.
Please explain how, even in a game called this lopsided, you can still point to an anti-Maryland bias? Again, I'm not complaining, I just don't see any way humanly possible for Maryland fans to complain. Then again, the coach complains about tip times, so maybe as goes the head.There's always a way to complain.
Please explain how, even in a game called this lopsided, you can still point to an anti-Maryland bias? Again, I'm not complaining, I just don't see any way humanly possible for Maryland fans to complain. Then again, the coach complains about tip times, so maybe as goes the head.I didn't at first, but since you want to be a grade A A-hole about it, I figured I'd continue.
UCLA fans chanting "overrated" at an unranked Arizona team?Why any crowd would chant "overrated" is beyond me. One's defeat of a team that is overrated is a plus? No.
Why any crowd would chant "overrated" is beyond me. One's defeat of a team that is overrated is a plus? No.Because we are a people that wants to insult and tear down. Our own elevation is secondary to taking our opponent and shoving them down. (Well, for a lot of people)
To defeat a team properly rated, or is underrated would be preferable in my book.
It's Minnesota's championship game when they play the Badgers. In the end it worked out fine. 19-10 looks pretty good.I might not give them all the losses when he was out, but at least three, probably four ... maybe five.
They'd probably be 24-5 if the NCAA wasn't so damn idiotic.
For all the joking about OSU being a terrible January team, the month by month adjusted efficiencies are incredibly starkIt is crazy how bad the Buckeyes were in January compared to November, December, and February.
[img width=273.429 height=500]https://pbs.twimg.com/media/ESCHMPjX0AEqjHo?format=jpg&name=medium[/img]
So UW is in an interesting spot re: schedule.It is interesting for all except NU and UNL.
I'd really like to see them get off that 8-9 line and get to the 7, or even 6. Not sure 6 is possible without a run to Saturday in the B1G tourney.I dunno, for UW maybe getting an 8 seed would be better than getting a 7. I think they'd fare better against Kansas, San Diego State, or Baylor than they would against Duke, Kentucky, or FSU (I know Duke and UK aren't currently projected as 2-seeds, but I can easily see the selection committee bump them up to the 2-line for brand name alone)
Underwood extended to 2026. 4.0 million by the 2025-2026 season.Well deserved
Just saw Lunardi has his new seeding up.MSU was a 4 seed in his morning update and Wisconsin was a 5. Must've had a good practice.
Maryland is a 2 (#7 overall) in the South. MSU is a 3 (#12) in the West. Wisconsin is a 4 (#16) in the Midwest.
OSU is a 5, but doesn't say where. Just that they are #17.
Underwood extended to 2026. 4.0 million by the 2025-2026 season.According to Illinois, this deal...
According to Illinois, this deal...I sincerely hope nothing comes of the FBI shoe stuff that went on at oSu. Probably nothing there, at oSu, or the NCAA would have already slammed them. Kansas, on the other hand...
- extends every time Underwood makes an NCAA Tournament, potentially all the way to 2030
- increases staff pool by 25 percent
- All assistants extended through 2022, along with Adam Fletcher
- moves Underwood current buyout to $8 million
Can Minnesota make the NCAA Tournament without winning the BTT?piTINo spelled backwards is oNITip.
I actually still think that they can. They are currently below .500 at 13-15 but their best-case-scenario without winning the BTT would be:If they do that they *MIGHT* not have to play on Wednesday in the BTT. It would depend on whether IU wins their other game and how M, RU, and PU finish. For the sake of this exercise I will assume that they still have to play on Wednesday in the BTT:
- Win at Indiana this week to improve to 8-11/14-15
- Beat Nebraska at home this weekend to improve to 9-11/15-15
I *THINK* that would get them in.
- Pick up a low-quality win on Wednesday in the BTT to move to 16-15 overall and 10-11 in B1G games
- Pick up a quality win on Thursday in the BTT to move to 17-15 overall and 11-11 in B1G games
- Pick up another quality win on Friday in the BTT to move to 18-15 overall and 12-11 in B1G games
- Pick up yet another quality win in the semi-final on Saturday to move to 19-15 overall and 13-11 in B1G games
- Lose the B1GCG on Sunday to finish 19-16 overall and 13-12 in B1G games.
piTINo spelled backwards is oNITip.Just to clarify, I'm not saying that I think they WILL make the NCAA, just that I think they are not yet in the "Need to win BTT" category yet because I still think it is possible for them to make the NCAA without winning the BTT.
From last Spring, prior to Juwan Howard coming to Michigan to make $2,000,000 per year.
- Chris Holtmann, Ohio State – $7,149,849* (3rd nationally)
- Tom Izzo, Michigan State – $4,359,979 (4th)
- John Beilein, Michigan – $3,370,000 (9th)
- Archie Miller, Indiana – $3,200,000 (10th)
- Brad Underwood, Illinois – $2,755,450 (18th)
- Mark Turgeon, Maryland – $2,700,915 (20th)
- Matt Painter, Purdue – $2,478,795 (29th)
- Tim Miles, Nebraska – $2,250,080 (33rd)
- Greg Gard, Wisconsin – $2,250,000 (34th)
- Fran McCaffery, Iowa – $2,225,000 (37th)
- Richard Pitino, Minnesota – $1,957,753 (49th)
- Steve Pikiell, Rutgers -$1,600,000 (56th)
- Chris Collins, Northwestern – $1,434,725 (60th)
* Received $3,920,000 for buyout from Butler.
Removing the Butler Buyout drops Holtman to $3,229,849, putting him below Izzo, and just above Miller. That doesn't seem too far off to me.I'm thinking coach Gard is gonna get a raise.
Purdue 15-14/8-10:I think it's three more wins that aren't over Nebraska or Northwestern. That win helps their win total, but doesn't help their resume overall.
The Boilermakers take on Iowa in Iowa City tonight then head home to face Rutgers this weekend. Losing both would be significantly problematic. 1-1 would leave them with work to do heading into Indy. Winning both would probably be enough if the season just ended there at 17-14 but it doesn't, they would still have to go to Indy probably needing at least one win.
No 16 loss team has ever made it correct?This is correct. However, I think that this year's loaded B1G is a pretty good place to start if you are trying to break that record. I do believe that either Purdue or Minnesota would absolutely get in with 16 losses if their 16th loss was next Sunday in Indianapolis.
Updated Massey composite rankings (58 rankings)Interesting thing on UW against those ranked here:
- Kansas (1)
- Baylor (2)
- Gonzaga (3)
- Dayton (5)
- San Diego State (6)
- Duke (4)
- Florida State (10)
- Louisville (7)
- MICHIGAN STATE (15)
- MARYLAND (8)
- Seton Hall (14)
- Villanova (11)
- Creighton (9)
- OHIO STATE (21)
- Kentucky (17)
- BYU (20)
- Oregon (18)
- Houston (25)
- PENN STATE (19)
- Arizona (13)
- West Virginia (12)
- IOWA (-)
- Auburn (23)
- MICHIGAN (16)
- WISCONSIN (-)
No 16 loss team has ever made it correct?That is true...
Best 3pt percentage defense in the conference, and PSU is shooting 70% from deepAnd PSU was 9-39 over their past three games. Took them 13 shots to hit 9 tonight.
I think that probably moves Rutgers to a tourney lock then. So now we wait and see on Indiana, Purdue, and Minnesota.1 win outside of Piscataway?
More than three minutes left, only down 14, Turgeon substitutes all starters.Smith, Fernando and Cowan were all in the game last year in the final minute.
Throws in the towel.
Did the same thing against Mich St last year, putting Fernando and Cowan on the bench with plenty of time .
He's a loser.
1 win outside of Piscataway?Certainly interesting. Their resume looks good, but I saw someone on Twitter say no team has ever gotten an at large bid with fewer than 3 road/neutral wins. As you said, Rutgers has 1.
How do you figure ?
And PSU was 9-39 over their past three games. Took them 13 shots to hit 9 tonight.And...1-17 after that
Smith, Fernando and Cowan were all in the game last year in the final minute.Last year AT Michigan State.
I agree Turgeon is just a recruiter, not an in game coach at all, but that part isn't true. Maybe a different game?
Last year AT Michigan State.Yeah, they only played once last year. Look at the play by play, all 3 are in the play log in the final minute.
I'll look again. Maybe it was the year before AT Michigan State.
Yeah, they only played once last year. Look at the play by play, all 3 are in the play log in the final minute.Year before then. I don't remember going irate over Stix being benched, so he must not have been there.
Year before then. I don't remember going irate over Stix being benched, so he must not have been there.The year before, MSU won by 30 at home. Fernando had a rebound with with 1:05 to go, down 30; and Cowan shot FTs with 1:40 to play, down 32.
The 2 best players sat with, I believe, more than 2 minutes and only down a dozen, if I'm not mistaken.
I have all the games in TS format, so I can go back, but the point remains.
He's a quitter, a loser, and his teams get worse as the year goes on, as lesser talented teams get better, because good coaches teach blocking out, rebounding, angles, backboard usage, and all other simple fundamentals.
The year before, MSU won by 30 at home. Fernando had a rebound with with 1:05 to go, down 30; and Cowan shot FTs with 1:40 to play, down 32.Now I'm definitely going to look for it.
Again, I agree he's an awful game coach.
Certainly interesting. Their resume looks good, but I saw someone on Twitter say no team has ever gotten an at large bid with fewer than 3 road/neutral wins. As you said, Rutgers has 1.Yeah, kind of the nature of things in the Big Ten. Ohio State has some OOC success, but in conference the only road wins are Northwestern, Nebraska, and a last minute win over Michigan.
I’ll be honest, I expected RAC officiating to send this a different way.Having this many teams in it going into the final weekend is awesome. It's been 20 years, but still being late on the scene, and never existing in a time when it was auto-bid or bust, the BTT has never felt as big as the other conference tourneys, so do have several years in a row now with some intrigue over the real title come down to the final weekend is awesome.
Anyway, Maryland’s fiery hatred of their coach is interesting. Also, my Alma Motter is going to almost assuredly control its conference title chances on the last game of the season and that is wild.
Having this many teams in it going into the final weekend is awesome. It's been 20 years, but still being late on the scene, and never existing in a time when it was auto-bid or bust, the BTT has never felt as big as the other conference tourneys, so do have several years in a row now with some intrigue over the real title come down to the final weekend is awesome.So when you look at the standings, it's honestly not going to be that many unless Illinois can win at OSU.
I’ll be honest, I expected RAC officiating to send this a different way.
Anyway, Maryland’s fiery hatred of their coach is interesting. Also, my Alma Mater is going to almost assuredly control its conference title chances on the last game of the season and that is wild.
I’ll be honest, I expected RAC officiating to send this a different way.No kidding.
Anyway, Maryland’s fiery hatred of their coach is interesting. Also, my Alma Mater is going to almost assuredly control its conference title chances on the last game of the season and that is wild.
(https://media.giphy.com/media/QjTAjja6qYQhi/giphy.gif)My friend, we've talked about the officials in strong terms after most Maryland games, to the point of you declaring the conference to be rigged. I wasn't on here during the game, but I know Rutgers has had some wild home/road splits and they often play physical as hell. Thus, I figured that would be a factor and it would be a central point in the discussion.
^ For your first sentence ^
I've been wanting to get rid of Turgeon for years.
Fran late season collapse. Right on scheduleEh, I don't follow basketball very closely, but that seems like a lazy narrative.
And.. Where are all the "FIRE GARD!" assclowns hiding out now?Until December I don't think he had done much to warrant anyone questioning the direction of the program to be considered an assclown, I would call them fans concerned about long-term success.
Eh, I don't follow basketball very closely, but that seems like a lazy narrative.The problem is that he does it every year Iowa looks good in mid-February, so I won't stop believing it, til it happens.
Prior to last night, when is the last time the lost a game they were projected to win? At Nebraska in early January? Paging @medinabuckeye1 (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=1547)
The annoying thing about the NET rankings is that by beating Iowa at home last night , Purdue knocked Iowa's NET from 29 to 35.That's the downside to giving real time updates.
So they picked up a great quadrant 1 road win, but in the same instant lost a previous quadrant 1 home win that is now only quadrant 2.
Until December I don't think he had done much to warrant anyone questioning the direction of the program to be considered an assclown, I would call them fans concerned about long-term success.He took a team that was a mess when Bo walk out and took it to the Sweet 16. Bo did not help at all with his exit recruiting class(s). The staff has turned two kids (Trice and Ford) that nobody wanted into Big Ten players. The recruiting has been solid, and is moving even higher.
I want to believe in Gard, but until the second half of this season if I knew a guy like John Beilein were available, I'd want to know if he was interested.
Certainly you won't move on from him now, but I don't want to overreact with recency bias either.
The problem is that he does it every year Iowa looks good in mid-February, so I won't stop believing it, til it happens.Which is fine, but it brings me back to my original question. How does this year fit in to that?
Last year they were #20 in mid-February and lost 5 of 6 down the stretch
2016 they were #4 in mid-February, lost 4 of their final 5, then got upset in the 5-12 game in the BTT
2014 they were #15 on February 22, lost 5 of 6, and then got upset in the 6-11 game in the BTT
It just seems like every time Fran has appeared to have a good team with 2-3 weeks left, they have totally collapsed down the stretch
It was more of an in game hot take, based on previous trends, than a well thought out dissertation. I just thought, while watching, "this seems right"Ha, well with that, I wholehartedly agree.
Blips on the long-term radar.I agree with most of your takes, but I think as recently as 3 months ago it was fair to question which were blips and which were emerging trends. The last few months have yielded improved player development and it looks like the recruiting will be better, which is why I'm cautiously optimistic that things are going in the right direction.
I agree with most of your takes, but I think as recently as 3 months ago it was fair to question which were blips and which were emerging trends. The last few months have yielded improved player development and it looks like the recruiting will be better, which is why I'm cautiously optimistic that things are going in the right direction.I'm buying S&P stocks, and I'm buying the Badgers. :)
Prior to last night, when is the last time the lost a game they were projected to win? At Nebraska in early January? Paging @medinabuckeye1 (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=1547)You are correct. Iowa now has two negative upsets:
I think 847 answered that earlier.
It's interesting how his teams are simultaneously bad in your view but still win a solid number of games, how they get worse as the season goes on in your read, but almost always win two thirds or better of their conference games. I'd assume the logic would be this team is too good to be this just good. (For reference, they're ranked because they have the 8th-best record among Power 5 teams, and that gets you ranked)
I'm buying S&P stocks, and I'm buying the Badgers. :)Next season the Badgers return almost everyone (Pritzl is the only loss), so they should be pretty solid. That said, who on this roster scares an opponent? That's the limitation for this team.
Next season the Badgers return almost everyone (Pritzl is the only loss), so they should be pretty solid. That said, who on this roster scares an opponent? That's the limitation for this team.Depending on who stays and who goes, Wisconsin, Iowa, Michigan, Indiana and Purdue all appear to return a ton of talent.
Next season the Badgers return almost everyone (Pritzl is the only loss), so they should be pretty solid. That said, who on this roster scares an opponent? That's the limitation for this team.Bo Ryan caught a lot of flack until his final years, for never getting past the Elite 8, which he managed to get to only one time until the end. Hell, posters here gave him crap all the time for tourney chokes.
While I'm on board that Gard has done a great job turning things around--and did several years ago, too, I'm not yet sold on his ability to maintain and improve. That's what Bo did: sustained success and incremental improvement that led to two of the best Badger teams in the history of the program. That's a high bar, but I want to see Gard do this, too.
I'm right in the middle on him right now. Good job with the turnaround, for sure. But the King thing is on him, too--not just King. So I'm waiting and seeing--and happy to see what happens down the stretch. And if the team isn't good out of the gate next season, that's a bad sign for Gard.
I mean what they heck, only getting to the Elite 8!?!I mean, outside making a big tournament run, what would he have been able to do to sell you? I mean, the 2014/2015 teams were outliers and always will be. This is gonna be a program where being solid perpetually is the main path to being occasionally great.
Unless the Badgers can bridge the talent gap, they won't have many teams like 2014/15, no question.
One of my worries with Gard is his adherence to the swing offense, and how that will turn off players that might otherwise want to be Badgers. Maybe a change there sinks a team that really needs to rely on one system and player development through that system. I don't know.
I know that I'm not opposed to Gard right now, but I'm also not totally sold. If he keeps the Badgers in the top 4 in the conference, going to the tournament, and occasionally having great teams, then I will be, but I'm not there yet.
Yeah, they only played once last year. Look at the play by play, all 3 are in the play log in the final minute.False. I was right. Jan 2019.
Gard's seasons:So he had four good seasons in five, and two good tournament runs in three. I suppose it doesn't overwhelm, but chances that UW lands a coach who overwhelms was pretty small overall. I suppose I don't know what it means to anoint him. He has the pieces to win at least in the low 20s in games next year, and while we can't predict the years after with much ability, the two coming recruiting classes both look relatively strong.
1) Took over mid-season, rescued season--great job. 7 seed in the tourney, made it to the Sweet 16. Nice work.
2) 8-seed, made it to the Sweet 16. Suffering from losing the talent left over from the 2015 team? Probably. Nice work.
3) Didn't make NCAA tournament. Bummer. Blame it on Bo's recruiting? Ok.
4) 5-seed, lost in first round to Oregon in the dreaded 5/12 matchup. Disappointing, but a good season.
5) Very promising finish after a difficult start. The Moore situation was horrible. The King situation was bad (and Gard has to own some of it, too). We will see how the tournament goes.
There's a lot of good in there, but it's not overwhelming. This season: great recovery. But I'm not ready to anoint him. Keep him around? Absolutely.
And as for the swing? It has figured heavily in every game I've seen this season.
Wisconsin can't recruit probably 75 percent of the kids out there.I might not hammer the academics thing so much (not my nature), but UW isn't a school that gets the kids getting cash, so that puts a ceiling on some of the top-end kids.
Every school in the B1G sans NU and UI can take about anyone who meets minimum NCAA standards. Things have changed since Stu Jackson roamed the sidelines in Madison. Not a chance Tracy Webster is a Badger these days.
Something to consider.
I think I picked up on your attitude like I didn't know what I was talking about, but there was more than 2 minutes left in the game, down 16, which may seem incredible to some, but I've seen 10 points erased in less than a minute.I've been following this discussion between you and @ELA (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=55) and I just don't get this particular complaint about your coach.
He just threw in the towel, sat Cowan and Fernando, and they never came back in.
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1C3kUhFCxCYPqiRHxALmyodDIOOqHlcWG/view (https://drive.google.com/file/d/1C3kUhFCxCYPqiRHxALmyodDIOOqHlcWG/view)
BAB, you may have a much finer understanding of different styles of the swing than I am (I'm guessing so), but, man, when I look at what the swing offense is, I see what I see the Badgers do all the time (meaning almost all of the time). And the biggest weakness I see with the Badgers, particularly when they are trying to protect a lead (home against Minnesota and Illinois are two good examples, with two different outcomes) is their inability to get out of the swing and instead work the ball down low with intentional post play (as opposed to finding an open player coming off of a swing-based ball screen).So you're saying your complaint is about not just hammering the post late in games?
Again, maybe this is the system they need to run with the talent and skill set they have (in '14/'15 they had the size and talent to get away from it more). I'm definitely not a good judge of that.
And yes, I think we are largely talking past each other. My response re not anointing Gard is in response to the chatter about how what happened this season (when it isn't even over) proves Gard is amazing. It feels like the same people were saying two months ago that he had to go. It ebbs and flows. He's doing well. But not so well that he should have a really long leash (if that even exists anymore).
847 (side note: gonna have to change that, eh?): I don't know much about the conditioning coach and the inappropriate comment. But I agree that King didn't leave the program because of it.
King was one of the most talented players on the team, but--as you point out--he was looking for an exit. Why? Maybe it's all on him. But Gard was the guy who recruited him and convinced him that Wisconsin was the right fit (like him or not, Tyler Herro realized Wisconsin wasn't right for him). After that, something went wrong. While maybe most of it is on King, I have to believe Gard has some responsibility, too.
And the end result may have been the best one. The team is playing better without him. I have a theory about performance that includes mental state--including team mental state--as an important factor. Maybe what was happening with King was degrading the entire team's focus/performance. The results make it look that way. (To be clear, the NCAA's decision on Micah Potter may have been a substantially bigger influence; I guess Nebraska can now worry about the same thing.)
I'm not indicting Gard; he's doing a good job. I am, however, taking into account his failures, along with his success.
I've been following this discussion between you and @ELA (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=55) and I just don't get this particular complaint about your coach.Damn brother, I do appreciate what you do.
Look, all of us get frustrated with our coaches sometimes and sometimes we are correct and our program should part ways with the coach and move in a different direction. As a general issue, from my perspective, I'm not sure if I agree that Maryland is there with Turgeon. In his nine seasons they have had one sweet sixteen. That does seem a little low relative to Maryland's overall long-term performance but it isn't like he has been horrible. This year will be his fifth NCAA in the past six years. My point is that they are fielding good teams, just not great teams.
Back to the specific complaint:
In the picture you posted Maryland is down 16 with 2:19 to go and you disagree with the decision to pull the stars. Frankly, I don't. The chances of coming back from that to win are remote at best. As @ELA (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=55) said above, I think at that point that the chances of one of them getting hurt are greater than the chances of Maryland pulling off a shocking come-from-behind win for the ages.
My math:
Maryland is down 16 so if they hit a three every time they get the ball they need six possessions. 2:19 = 139 seconds and 139/6=23.17 so here is roughly what they would need to have happen in order to win (note that MSU is in Bonus+):
- Maryland makes a three in ~20 seconds to make it 56-69 with 120 seconds to go.
- Maryland fouls MSU in ~3 seconds to send them to the line at 117 seconds to go.
- MSU misses BOTH foul shots.
- Maryland makes a three in ~20 seconds to make it 59-69 with 97 seconds to go.
- Maryland fouls MSU in ~3 seconds to send them to the line at 94 seconds to go.
- MSU misses BOTH foul shots.
- Maryland makes a three in ~20 seconds to make it 62-69 with 74 seconds to go.
- Maryland fouls MSU in ~3 seconds to send them to the line at 71 seconds.
- MSU misses BOTH foul shots.
- Maryland makes a three in ~20 seconds to make it 65-69 with 51 seconds.
- Maryland fouls MSU in ~3 seconds to send them to the line at 47 seconds.
- MSU misses BOTH foul shots.
- Maryland makes a three in ~20 seconds to make it 68-69 at 27 seconds.
- Maryand fouls MSU in ~20 seconds to send MSU to the line at 24 seconds.
- Maryland makes a bucket in the final 24 seconds to win either 70-69 or 71-69.
IMHO, the chances of Maryland making six straight baskets with at least four of them being threes (because 4*3+2*2=16) and all of them being somewhat rushed are remote at best. The chances of MSU missing eight consecutive foul shots are even more remote. In theory MSU could make two (if all six of UMD's baskets are threes) and still go to OT. Is it throwing in the towel, well yes but it is pretty hard to argue with the logic behind it. How many teams have ever come back from a 16 point deficit in ~2 minutes?
I tried to google it but the closest I could come up with was a list of the 41 biggest comebacks in NCAA history (https://www.ncaa.com/news/basketball-men/article/2018-02-23/40-biggest-comebacks-ncaa-basketball-history). Those are all more points (22 or more) but note that the latest in the game of those was that VCU overcame a 26 point deficit with 9:26 left at USF on February 20, 1993. My point is that if Maryland or any team were to somehow overcome a 16 point deficit in a little over two minutes it wouldn't just be historic for that team, it would be a major historic event.
One final way to determine this:
Years ago I read an article by Bill James on Slate (http://www.slate.com/articles/sports/sports_nut/2008/03/the_lead_is_safe.html) that had a theory for determining when a Basketball game is over. I found and linked the article but here is the math:
- Take the differential: 16
- Subtract three: 13
- Add a half-point if the team ahead has the ball, subtract a half-point if the team behind has the ball: (I don't know who had the ball so I'll just assume it was Maryland: 12.5
- Square that: 156.25
- If the result is greater than the number of seconds left in the game, the lead is safe: 156.25>139 so the game was no longer in doubt per Slate.
Nah. I've had this phone number since 1998. Not gonna happen. ;)
847 (side note: gonna have to change that, eh?):
Nah. I've had this phone number since 1998. Not gonna happen. ;)Bueno. Gotta stay true to yourself.
I won't try to match basketball wits with you. The Badgers' swing offense is often one dimensional, even when that dimension isn't working, and they are bad at adjusting out of it to get the ball inside when they need to. Again, maybe a talent/skill problem. But a significant one, nonetheless.I remain a teensy bit confused, what is the dimension you’re speaking of?
I remain a teensy bit confused, what is the dimension you’re speaking of?I'm not trying to be obtuse, and I'm surprised that you see a multi-dimensional offense. What I see on a massive percentage of possessions: 4 out, 1 in; 1-guard advances ball, passes to O-3 on the wing or the 2-guard, who then looks for O-4 on the other wing. Wing player looks for pass to O-5 on post (rarely has it), swings back to guard (or whichever player has run his blocks back to the O-1 or O-2 spots. Rinse, repeat. Pass to O-5 when available. O-5, when he has it, looks for shot from there, with limited creativity with the ball. Little dribbling/cutting with the ball to attack the paint (Davison does the most). Over-simplified? Yes. Reuvers is the high scorer? Yes (at least I think he still is). Does it work? Yes, most of the time.
I'm not trying to be obtuse, and I'm surprised that you see a multi-dimensional offense. What I see on a massive percentage of possessions: 4 out, 1 in; 1-guard advances ball, passes to O-3 on the wing or the 2-guard, who then looks for O-4 on the other wing. Wing player looks for pass to O-5 on post (rarely has it), swings back to guard (or whichever player has run his blocks back to the O-1 or O-2 spots. Rinse, repeat. Pass to O-5 when available. O-5, when he has it, looks for shot from there, with limited creativity with the ball. Little dribbling/cutting with the ball to attack the paint (Davison does the most). Over-simplified? Yes. Reuvers is the high scorer? Yes (at least I think he still is). Does it work? Yes, most of the time.So I watch it and I see more flexibility than that. The possession I just watched on a rematch, you have 1 dribble into a handoff, ball comes across to a point guard comes off the screen, that passer cuts toward the basket off a screen, screener sets a pick for the far corner player to curl, screener pops, goes into an unbalanced pick and roll, throws out top to a guard who looks to feed the post and then drives. It's always gonna be an offense with 15 seconds of flow and then a high ball screen play.
But when it doesn't, the Badgers have very little ability to do anything else.
What series of outcomes down the stretch would lead to an early OSU-Michigan match up in the Big Ten Tourney?You always want that.
The places I'm confused are fist, what is "creativity with the ball."? And second what is these other dimensions?I sometimes think of that one... Complaining about "creativity with the ball"...
An extremely tight whistle not helping the buckeyesTurned out it did
Turned out it didIt did! K. Wesson had two fouls in the first three minutes and they struggled in the first half. But EJ Liddell and foul trouble for Illinois' bigs helped them out in the second half
You always want that.I thought it would be simpler after tonight's games and it is but there are still a LOT of possibilities.
I'll wait until after tonight's games to tackle that. Right now both teams still have two games left so there are a lot of possibilities. After tonight it will be simpler.
Right now it appears highly unlikely because tOSU is likely to end up at the #7 seed while Michigan is likely to end up in the 8/9 game so the only way they could play each other in the tournament would be if the both made it to the CG.
What series of outcomes down the stretch would lead to an early OSU-Michigan match up in the Big Ten Tourney?The Buckeyes are currently 11-8 and tied for 5th/6th/7th with PSU and IA. Those three teams are one game behind 4th place Illinois and one game ahead of M and RU which are tied for 8th/9th.
Ugly first half and great second half for Michigan tonight. Nebraska disclaimers aside, hopefully that brings their confidence back.Congrats on the win this coming Sunday.
I'll be at the Maryland game on Sunday and am looking forward to it....
ON the verge of the first potential bid steal. #8 Drake up 16 on #1 Northern Iowa in the MVC quarterfinals. UNI is #36 in the NET, and may get an at large bid anyway, which is the only way the MVC is a two bid league#1, #2 and #3 seeds all lost in the quarterfinals
#1, #2 and #3 seeds all lost in the quarterfinalsMarch!
Big Ten Champs!Good for Wisconsin, good for Greg Hard, hell of a February!
This has been a bonkers run and man what a game (that I superstitiously didn't watch the final 10 minutes of).
Good for Wisconsin, good for Greg Hard, hell of a February!
If Michigan loses at Maryland they will be the #9 seed.I thought I saw that it's UM-Rutgers in the 8-9 game no matter what, just a matter of who wears white.
If Michigan wins, it gets complicated, really complicated.
With a win in College Park the Wolverines would join the Scarlet Knights and Nittany Lions at 11-9. In addition, the Buckeyes (if they lose in East Lansing) and Hawkeyes (if they lose in Champaign) would also finish 11-9.
I thought I saw that it's UM-Rutgers in the 8-9 game no matter what, just a matter of who wears white.That sounds right to me.
Sam Dekker made a tweet yesterday, about the "direction" of the UW program being fine under Coach Gard. Of course, Kobe King had to respond.Heh well it was a thinly veiled shot at King
Heh well it was a thinly veiled shot at KingYes, it was. A shot at King, who started the house on fire on his way out. I like that former players have come out in defense of the program. It says a lot.
Yes, it was. A shot at King, who started the house on fire on his way out. I like that former players have come out in defense of the program. It says a lot.House doesn't look on fire to me.
House doesn't look on fire to me.It was for a while, before Coach Gard, his assistants and the players stepped up and put it out. Remember the drilling they took at Minnie, after they lost their trainer?
Why did OSU not want Potter?Oh they wanted him. I think Potter felt like he should be starting and if he wasn't he was going somewhere else.
Dude is averaging 10,6 and a block a game in 17.5 minutes. Thanks Mr. Holtman, I guess?
Oh they wanted him. I think Potter felt like he should be starting and if he wasn't he was going somewhere else.Hmmm, odd he's still not starting, but playing enough I suppose
It was for a while, before Coach Gard, his assistants and the players stepped up and put it out. Remember the drilling they took at Minnie, after they lost their trainer?No. 1: Minnesota is good despite its record and this team is at times still inconsistent. I just chalk the Minnesota game up to that.
And Potter, yeah. I'm thinking OSU would love a do-over on that one. Hopefully he can petition and get another year.
Hmmm, odd he's still not starting, but playing enough I supposeThere was probably a psychological element to it. He started games his first two years at OSU and then was replaced in the starting lineup. Then last year he wasn't going to start at center over Wesson, and also hadn't been a great three point shooter so wasn't a natural fit over Young at the 4 either. At OSU he has only shot 30 percent from 3. I imagine if he had been shooting 46 percent like this year they would have promised him more playing time.
No. 1: Minnesota is good despite its record and this team is at times still inconsistent. I just chalk the Minnesota game up to that.I don't know, but he played in zero games for his second 2 seasons. Who knows these days.
No. 2: How would he petition for another year? He played 29 and 30 games his first two seasons.
I don't know, but he played in zero games for his second 2 seasons. Who knows these days.He can still play next year can't he?
Maybe I'm confused. Did he actually play 2 seasons in Columbus, or just 1 season?2
Got it. Nevermind.He'll have to settle for playing for a Big 10 champ that should return seven rotation guys (assuming no weird NBA stuff) and add a top-20 recruiting class.
Maybe he could get a 1/2 year back.. heh.
Yeah, bummer.I'd assume he does
I wonder if he knows that there is no way UW is B1G champ without him. We all saw December. Yeesh.
Congrats on the win this coming Sunday.Hey! This turned out incorrect.
Turgeon will hand it to you "terrifically".
Hey! This turned out incorrect.Great.
Now Maryland gets to hang a banner, first since 2010 and second since 2002. (I'm not sure if Maryland was strict on the whole "no ACC regular season championship" thing. Maybe it's a first.)
Regular season >>> Tournament champ.Yeah, it's just the difference between ACC and Big Ten. ACC tournament used to be an event that shut the entire region down, and the only way into the tourney. As you pointed out, the BTT was just a money grab in 1998. I value winning it about on par with winning Maui.
I've always felt that way, since the money grab started 20+ years ago and Illinois had a chance to win it as the last(?) place team. Thanks to MSU, it didn't happen.
This is some ugly three point shooting. Teams are a combined 5-20, and two of MSUs were flat luck bank threes. And some of the misses have been UGLYDifference in the game are those janky threes. Both teams playing with a lot of energy - getting up and down and playing defense. Not many open shots
The ACC used to pretend the regular season champ wasn't a thing, even though most of the schools hung banners for them. He's not sure which side of the fence Maryland is on.I get that. Regular season meant a good bit, but not as much as the tournament. Home court was always an expected advantage.
The ACC used to pretend the regular season champ wasn't a thing, even though most of the schools hung banners for them. He's not sure which side of the fence Maryland is on.This. I wasn't sure if I started talking about banners if I'd get the ACC talking to. Glad I won't.
I get that. Regular season meant a good bit, but not as much as the tournament. Home court was always an expected advantage.I wonder if he does? Edit: hmmm, I guess he actually said it. Well in that case, I wonder if he actually believes it.
I'd rather win it outright. I don't necessarily believe it's fair when you share with a team you only played once on their floor, so yeah, it's disappointing from that standpoint.
That's the problem we have with Turgeon. He thinks the 300lb gorilla is off of his back, but it's not.
All that talent, you'd think you could win more.
Are we doing a Big Ten Fantasy game this year or is it too difficult to put together?I haven't done that in a while. I don't think I've done it since before Maryland and Rutgers joined.
I haven't done that in a while. I don't think I've done it since before Maryland and Rutgers joined.Makes sense. Starts one day earlier, so too hard to get the draft in. That and the elimination pool were my favorite contests on the site.
If Purdue gets to Sunday, they're in regardless of outcome. I think the selection committee will create a single bracket that has Purdue somewhere around the 10/11 at that point and they'll get that seed win or lose, and the same for whoever they face--their seed won't depend on beating or losing to Purdue.That's actually a pretty good point. Big Ten might for once benefit from that late game. Committee might just say, eh, they are in with a win, and defensible even with a loss, so let's just make one bracket, then we don't need a contingency.
That said, Purdue won't beat Ohio State, because no matter what, MSU and OSU seemingly have to play each other in the BTT every single year.As an MSU fan, who would you rather face?
As an MSU fan, who would you rather face?If I were an MSU fan, I'd rather play tOSU again. I think the Buckeyes were gassed at the end of the game in East Lansing yesterday and that will not get better if they are playing their second game in 24 hours while MSU is well rested.
I think OSU's a more consistent team, but I think Purdue is more dangerous when they actually bring their 'A' game...
As an MSU fan, who would you rather face?Probably OSU, certainly if Young isn't back. They basically go 6 deep, and it showed. OSU's lack of depth has killed them against MSU the past two seasons, the way MSU generally goes like 9 deep, and wants to run.
I think OSU's a more consistent team, but I think Purdue is more dangerous when they actually bring their 'A' game...
*I'm not sure that this actually would fit the NCAA rules because we already have three #7 seed and a #2 seed so if Indiana was a #10 then they would either have to play one of our #7's in the first round (not permitted) or else one of the 7's or 10's would possibly face Maryland in the second round.MSU-Minnesota played in a 2-7 2nd round game last year.
MSU-Minnesota played in a 2-7 2nd round game last year.Thank you, I wasn't sure.
What do you think, bwarbiany (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=19) , about the tOSU/PU match-up?I don't know... It's one of those questions of which Purdue team shows up.
Yesterday, OSU tied it up with 16 minutes left, and then MSU went outscored them 38-18 until MSU started pulling seniors out.I definitely thought that Ohio State's thin rotation showed.
I could only hope.
- I think it will be Maryland over Michigan.
Probably OSU, certainly if Young isn't back. They basically go 6 deep, and it showed. OSU's lack of depth has killed them against MSU the past two seasons, the way MSU generally goes like 9 deep, and wants to run.So this brings to the forefront something I often think about, and something that being a Wisconsin fan has probably colored my perception of to a degree: Is depth overrated?
In the last four meetings...
In Columbus last year, OSU led 45-36 with about 18 minutes left, then MSU outscored them 50-32 the rest of the way
In East Lansing last year, OSU led by 6 at halftime, and was tied with 7:40 left, then MSU outscored them 20-2 over the final 7:40. A C.J. Jackson 3 pointer at 7:40, was the field goal OSU made in the last 12 minutes of the game.
In the BTT last year, OSU led 40-38 early in the second half, then MSU went on a 37-14 run to push it out to a 21 point lead at the under 4 timeout, til OSU started raining three in the only crunch time minutes Loyer got in his entire life.
Yesterday, OSU tied it up with 16 minutes left, and then MSU went outscored them 38-18 until MSU started pulling seniors out.
Over those 4 games, it's been 136-135 OSU in the first half, and 170-124 MSU in the second half (and that's even with OSU having late 16-0 and 9-0 runs once MSU got the lead up over 20 with under 4 minutes left, becomes 170-99 without).
Just as built right now, OSU is a great matchup for MSU. That said, I don't really care how MSU does, so I'd rather get some revenge for the thumping they gave us in West Lafayette
I'll cop that my team's pace probably influences that, same for the fact the best team in UW history had almost no bench to speak of, and the deepest team couldn't absorb and injury and struggled late.I wonder if it's similar to the old adage...
This is what I always come back to: These college teams don't play all that much. You get five guys on the court at the same time, and the good ones can play a lot. Most really good teams roll about 7-8 deep in big games, give or take a few breather minutes.
Anyway, food for thought.
I wonder if it's similar to the old adage...I think that's a lot of it, but if you look when the chips are down, even Kansas and Kentucky roll like 7 or 8 deep in terms of people that play more than a few minutes.
"If you have two QBs, you have zero QBs."
I think if you have 5 guys who all deserve 30+ minutes, you do your best to give them 30+ minutes. Last year Purdue had Carsen at 35.4 mpg and Cline at 33.9 mpg. Why? Because you're not taking them off the floor unless you have to. This year the only player averaging over 30 is Eric Hunter at 31.5.
If you've got 8-9 guys really sharing minutes, it either means you've got 8-9 guys who are SO DAMN GOOD that they all should be on the court. More likely at the college level, though, what you've really got is 8-9 guys, none of whom can differentiate themselves from each other to the point that you don't want to take them off the court.
I think this is especially true of programs like Purdue and Wisconsin, and less programs like Kansas and Kentucky. If you're loaded with blue chip recruits, SOMEONE is going to prove by their play on the court that they deserve 30+ mpg. If your 5* player is struggling, you've got a 5* hotshot behind him that's ready and willing to step over his grave and onto the court. If you're not, you HOPE that you get a couple of completely stalwart studs and then that their backups can at least give you spot minutes. But if your experienced players aren't producing, chances are that the 3*/4* guys behind them who may not be ready to contribute as freshmen/sophomores might be good enough to deserve minutes, but it's not because they've "won the job". It's because nobody has won the job.
Yep, and that's the truth.When I saw that, I kind of wanted to ask our Maryland posters, were they super amped with Wiggins?
Also.. Potter should have been 6th man of the year.
When I saw that, I kind of wanted to ask our Maryland posters, were they super amped with Wiggins?He has a ton of potential and done great as a freshman.
I looked at his numbers and thought I might not be the most hyped on the kid, but I've watched him for not that many games.
Wright State secures their NIT bidThey flamed out.
They flamed out.Good for UIC. I remember when they were the garbage program in the CCHA, UM used to beat them legitimately like 12-0 frequently. I think they dropped hockey shortly thereafter.
So this brings to the forefront something I often think about, and something that being a Wisconsin fan has probably colored my perception of to a degree: Is depth overrated?As someone said, pace does make it a necessity so I do think that depth is more situational. Generally speaking, I've noticed that come tourney time, six or seven will own the majority of the minutes but those two non-starters will combined for maybe 20-25 minutes per game with the starters getting 35+ min each (save foul trouble or injury). Too many in the rotation jacks with rhythm and cohesion.
Ivy League cancels their conference tourneysWow. Ivy doesn't lose a ton probably, it's just 4 teams, and is relatively new. But you do wonder where this is headed.
Wow. Ivy doesn't lose a ton probably, it's just 4 teams, and is relatively new. But you do wonder where this is headed.To more over-reaction?
Wow. Ivy doesn't lose a ton probably, it's just 4 teams, and is relatively new. But you do wonder where this is headed.It does. OSU cancelled all classes until March 30. The way things are trending I think it's a real question what the NCAA tourney looks like.
Are we doing a Big Ten Fantasy game this year or is it too difficult to put together?I really miss that game!
UW did lose to RU on the road, before Micah Potter and with Kobe King. That said, I wouldn't be surprised to see UW lose to any team but UNL, and I wouldn't be surprised to see UW beat any other team.Same, aside from Nebraska or Northwestern. I mean we lost to the 11 seed already. The 10 seed demolished us.
Same, aside from Nebraska or Northwestern. I mean we lost to the 11 seed already. The 10 seed demolished us.This.
If MSU won the whole thing, not shocked. If they lost on Friday? They are playing either a team that already beat us by 30 or the #8 KenPom team, so there's no way that can be surprising either.
I don't think Minnesota or Indiana can get hot and win it. Not with having to play tomorrow.I think you are *PROBABLY* right but I don't think it is because they aren't good enough, I think it is because it is just REALLY hard to win five games in five days. They would more than likely end up running into a good team playing their first or second game and lose.
Pretty sure Medina already guaranteed an OSU-Michigan CCG. O0I thought Delany guaranteed that back in 2012, no?
I have no memory of a WCC Championship Game that wasn’t a St Mary’s/Gonzaga matchup. It’s like the Lions on Thanksgiving.Didn't BYU park their Olympic sports there? Have they not made it? They seem to make the tourney on a somewhat regular basis.
Didn't BYU park their Olympic sports there? Have they not made it? They seem to make the tourney on a somewhat regular basis.BYU was there last year, as well as 2015 and 2014.
Didn't BYU park their Olympic sports there? Have they not made it? They seem to make the tourney on a somewhat regular basis.I was exaggerating a little for effect. However, since 2004 Gonzaga and St. Mary’s have met in the finals of the WCC Tournament 11 times. That’s a lot.
My updated Bracket going into the major conference tournamentsChanges from last night:
I'll look incredibly stupid, but I'll take MSU over Illinois in the final. All chalk, except Michigan over Rutgers on Thursday; Penn State over Maryland on Friday; and Illinois over Wisconsin on Saturday.We've only had two guesses so far, anybody else care to chime in?
To more over-reaction?What's the Flu Taskforce have to say about this?
We've only had two guesses so far, anybody else care to chime in?(https://i.imgur.com/TAl3b4N.png)
I believe MSU is the first B10 school to announce they'll finish the remained of the semester with courses online. A number of other Michigan universities are following this precedent.Purdue is doing the same.
The advisory committee to the NCAA recommends limited attendance for the gamesI saw on Twitter that each school gets to bring only its one best fan. I like the idea of what that is.
Big Ten making no changesAs well they shouldn't.
https://www.nj.com/rutgersbasketball/2020/03/big-ten-tournament-2020-conference-announces-it-will-run-as-scheduled-amid-coronavirus-outbreak.html (https://www.nj.com/rutgersbasketball/2020/03/big-ten-tournament-2020-conference-announces-it-will-run-as-scheduled-amid-coronavirus-outbreak.html)
Just announced that after today the BTT won't allow fans the rest of the week.I'm sure the Big Ten was super thrilled the NCAA didn't give them a heads up
Fred Hoiberg coached while under the weather and now this.https://twitter.com/RobinWashut/status/1237921118205423617?s=19
https://twitter.com/heady_chris/status/1237924472814002178?s=19
I would bet the rest of this is cancelled.
How on earth does the guy have flu like symptoms and people don't tell him to maybe sit this one out?Exactly and even more so because his team is no good. They were the #14 seed, dead last in conference. It isn't like he'd have been missing much.
Why wait until Michigan and Rutgers are on the court? What changed from last night, or a couple hours ago?Nothing, though I'll cut them some slack given this is a pretty unprecedented situation.
it's just basketballOSU already cancelled ours
I'm worried about the Husker Spring game
Congrats to Big Ten Tourney Co-Champs Indiana and MinnesotaSo does Minnesota get the auto-bid?
Not sure why they'd cancel the event when they've already restricted fan access.I think the Rudy Gobert - Jazz event really changed things. The whole Jazz team is more or less in quarantine, and everyone they played recently has to be looked at. Playing it could put teams in terrible position - what if say Purdue wins but then someone for OSU tests positive. Would MSU want to play Purdue tomorrow?
Watching this St. John's Creighton game that has no fans. It actually isn't that big a deal - cheerleaders make a lot of noiseWas thinking the same. Wouldn't have been that bad from a viewing standpoint
Was thinking the same. Wouldn't have been that bad from a viewing standpointKind of has the feel of a good high school game, hearing the individual cheers and whatnot.
Sounds like tourney is officially cancelledAll NCAA winter and spring championships
Watching this St. John's Creighton game that has no fans. It actually isn't that big a deal - cheerleaders make a lot of noiseYou should hear them AFTER the game....
Sounds like tourney is officially cancelledI'm only surprised that it is cancelled instead of suspended. If this blows over in six weeks or two months we could have an NCAA Tournament in May, no?
Hang the bannerAnd another
https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/2020-march-madness-predictions/ (https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/2020-march-madness-predictions/)