CFB51 College Football Fan Community
The Power Five => Big Ten => Topic started by: GopherRock on March 06, 2019, 07:29:50 PM
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https://collegefootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2019/03/05/report-sec-big-ten-to-kick-mountain-west-out-of-las-vegas-bowl-among-other-2020-postseason-changes/
Vegas Bowl moves from the high school stadium out in the desert to the new Raiders stadium across the freeway from the Mandalay Bay. Not sure where this bowl lands in the conference pecking order, but it appears that this is a straight trade of Holiday for Vegas.
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Cliff notes please. Any word on payouts? I would think Vegas wants to up the ante. I heard they will have B1G and SEC teams.
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https://watchstadium.com/news/college-football-bowl-game-changes-to-begin-in-2020-03-05-2019/
From what I can gather, the shuffling to the order WRT Big Ten teams is as such:
-B1G and SEC will have 3 slots each from 2020 to 2025.
-Whichever conference is in the Vegas, the other goes to the Belk in Charlotte v. ACC.
-P12's third bowl after the Rose and the Alamo.
-ACC gives up the Music City. This will be B1G v. SEC for the whole cycle.
-Outback will still be B1G v. SEC, but in years where the B1G is in the Orange Bowl, an ACC team will replace it. Apparently this arrangement used to be with the Citrus Bowl.
No word on payouts.
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Shame is, that's one of the few expansion bowls that I think actually works. I'd rather take one of the terrible ones move it there, and just give Vegas a second bowl, this one.
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I like that the Music City is going to be every year.
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Personally, I really like this. I prefer Vegas as a travel destination over some of our other locations and my understanding is that the new stadium is on what was vacant land West of I-15 and Dean Martin Dr between Hacienda (N) and Russell (S). If that understanding is correct then this should be easy walking distance from any of the hotels near the intersection of Las Vegas Boulevard and Tropicana Avenue (that includes Tropicana, MGM, Excalibur, Luxor, Mandalay Bay, Four Seasons, New York New York, etc).
For those who are not familiar, McCarran (Vegas' airport) is on Tropicana just a mile or so East of Las Vegas Boulevard (aka "The Strip"). More importantly, In-N-Out Burger is just maybe another mile or so East.
You could basically stay anywhere on the strip and walk to this game and even if you stayed downtown you could get a shuttle or cab up to the strip pretty easily.
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Vegas will be a popular bowl. Should be much more affordable than going to Orlando.
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I'm sure they will jack the hotel prices and airfare, based on which teams get to come...
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I'm sure they will jack the hotel prices and airfare, based on which teams get to come...
Eh, there's always enough stuff going on in Vegas, that I don't think any one event will shift hotels. Now certain flights, depending on the teams? I could see that
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I know motels went way up here when they had the SB, but someone told me a million people came to town, which is probably high, but a lot more came than could fit in the stadium. I don't think it's anywhere near that when two teams play there that are not local, say Auburn playing UNC. A large city pretty much swallows up that without anything noticeable beyond the hotels perhaps very close to the venue. I doubt airfare is impacted.
LV is pretty easy to access obviously. Even though I barely gamble, we like going there. It's a nice jump off point for scenery and the rental cars are very cheap as compared with LAX. I used to plan a trip around this time of year to get away from the cold weather, but now the weather here is already very nice.
Orlando is an 8 hour drive for us now and 6 lane freeway most of the way. The fantasy baseball thing is moving to Sarasota, which I much prefer to Orlando. I'm looking forward to that next January. We'll drive.
These lesser bowls obviously struggle with attendance usually, but LV's a good location at least. I think one of the semis is here in the ATL this season.
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I'm sure they will jack the hotel prices and airfare, based on which teams get to come...
Capitalism, man
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I doubt they'd jack up prices for a bowl game with maybe 30,000 people coming into town in LV. Drop in bucket.
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Capitalism, man
:whoo:
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While I'd prefer the Holiday Bowl, having a bowl in Las Vegas is no worry... That's still easily driveable from here, whereas even Santa Clara is pushing to the point where flying [if the fares are low] is easier.
The bigger concern is how close it will be to New Year's Eve... It's one thing to have a Dec 28 hotel price... It's another entirely if it's Dec 30 or 31st.
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agree on the date. Vegas outside of new years will be fine for pricing.
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Personally, I really like this. I prefer Vegas as a travel destination over some of our other locations and my understanding is that the new stadium is on what was vacant land West of I-15 and Dean Martin Dr between Hacienda (N) and Russell (S). If that understanding is correct then this should be easy walking distance from any of the hotels near the intersection of Las Vegas Boulevard and Tropicana Avenue (that includes Tropicana, MGM, Excalibur, Luxor, Mandalay Bay, Four Seasons, New York New York, etc).
For those who are not familiar, McCarran (Vegas' airport) is on Tropicana just a mile or so East of Las Vegas Boulevard (aka "The Strip"). More importantly, In-N-Out Burger is just maybe another mile or so East.
You could basically stay anywhere on the strip and walk to this game and even if you stayed downtown you could get a shuttle or cab up to the strip pretty easily.
Of more importance than In-N-Out-Burger is that the Heart Attack Grill is just a few mins away off of Fremont Street, downtown. :)
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Eh, there's always enough stuff going on in Vegas, that I don't think any one event will shift hotels. Now certain flights, depending on the teams? I could see that
Yes, big events have a HUGE effect on hotel rates in Vegas. Our company is currently doing work in Vegas and a couple of my team members are there now. They were looking to be there during a couple of big events in town and the hotel prices were triple their normal rates for those dates. We actually put off going during those times due to the hotel rate changes.
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Ugh, I was really hoping for an SEC-PAC bowl in Vegas. The world needs another B10-SEC bowl like it needs a hole in the head.
There are infinite hotel rooms in Vegas, so that shouldn't be a consideration.
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There may well be a very high number of hotel rooms in the Vegas valley, but this isn't your Grandpa's Vegas. Since most of the casino resorts are now owned by publicly traded corporations, instead of being loss leaders for the gambling operations, everything has to pull it's weight. Vegas isn't cheap anymore.
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I noticed over the past 20 years that LV isn't cheap any more. Those fabled buffets that were cheap and pretty decent are pricey now.
You can still find rooms on the Strip for not too much;
https://doubletree3.hilton.com/en/hotels/nevada/tropicana-las-vegas-a-doubletree-by-hilton-hotel-LASNTDT/index.html
Doubletree for $50 or so, watch for the added fees though.
Rates go up 5x for NYE.
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Of more importance than In-N-Out-Burger is that the Heart Attack Grill is just a few mins away off of Fremont Street, downtown. :)
now you're TALKIN!
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I doubt they'd jack up prices for a bowl game with maybe 30,000 people coming into town in LV. Drop in bucket.
hah, the Huskers would bring more than 50,000 if it was after this coming season
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gotta be much better than a trip to NYC and the pinstripe
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There may well be a very high number of hotel rooms in the Vegas valley, but this isn't your Grandpa's Vegas. Since most of the casino resorts are now owned by publicly traded corporations, instead of being loss leaders for the gambling operations, everything has to pull it's weight. Vegas isn't cheap anymore.
I noticed over the past 20 years that LV isn't cheap any more. Those fabled buffets that were cheap and pretty decent are pricey now.
You can still find rooms on the Strip for not too much;
https://doubletree3.hilton.com/en/hotels/nevada/tropicana-las-vegas-a-doubletree-by-hilton-hotel-LASNTDT/index.html
Doubletree for $50 or so, watch for the added fees though.
Rates go up 5x for NYE.
I think you guys are right and wrong. Saying that "Vegas isn't cheap" is a bit of an exaggeration. You can still visit Vegas cheaper than you could visit most any other major destination. That said, it isn't anywhere near as cheap as it once was.
Back in the late '50's my dad was stationed at the Marine Base at Twentynine Palms, CA. Back then 19 year old grunts weren't paid very much (the US had a draft so they didn't have to have competitive pay). My dad and his buddies would usually go to Vegas if they were going anywhere because it was CHEAP. Back then, as @GopherRock (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=47) indicated, the food, hotels, etc were basically loss-leaders for gambling operations so a group of young marines could stay in a CHEAP room and have a weekend in Vegas.
I think several things have caused the change. For one, @GopherRock (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=47) is right, the casinos are now owned by publicly traded corporations. However, the mobsters that owned the casinos back in the 50's were obviously profit driven as well. I think the bigger change is the explosion in legal gambling alternatives. Gambling was not allowed in Atlantic City until the 1970's and the proliferation of Indian Reservation and Riverboat casinos didn't start until later than that. Years ago Vegas was nearly the only place in the Country where gambling was legal. Up until Castro took over (1959), Cuba used to have casinos in Havanna and those were a popular destination.
Between the time that Castro took over in Cuba and New Jersey allowed gambling in Atlantic City, Vegas pretty much had a corner on the market. Back then, I think that their bread-and-butter was a blue-collar middle to maybe upper-middle-class gambler who flew in once a year or every few years and gambled a few hundred or maybe a few thousand bucks. Those customers simply don't go to Vegas anymore. Now they go to their local legal casino.
The casinos in Vegas had to upgrade because they are serving a different clientele.
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Yeah, it's relatively cheap but not like it once was. I notice a lot more oriented to families now.
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still much less expensive than San Diego or NYC
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Ugh, I was really hoping for an SEC-PAC bowl in Vegas. The world needs another B10-SEC bowl like it needs a hole in the head.
There are infinite hotel rooms in Vegas, so that shouldn't be a consideration.
agree on the B10-SEC match up concerns... but isn't the Vegas bowl a PAC vs SEC or BIG??
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agree on the B10-SEC match up concerns... but isn't the Vegas bowl a PAC vs SEC or BIG??
Correct.
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You can still find rooms on the Strip for not too much;
Doubletree for $50 or so, watch for the added fees though.
That's no joke.
Headed to Vegas in June this year. Got a deal at the Bellagio for 3 nights. But when you add in the "resort fees" and local taxes, you get an extra $200 on the bill.
I've stayed in another hotel down there that doesn't even have a casino, but of course they have "resort fees".
They'll still find their ways to soak you.
I liken it to a lot of these airlines that advertise low flight rates, but that's only if you fly naked, without luggage, and sit on the wing. If you want an actual seat with your fare, or to carry a backpack, you're going to be opening your wallet.
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The "resort fees" do get you a bottle of water each night.
It's a thing that can wave if you do certain things.
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I liken it to a lot of these airlines that advertise low flight rates, but that's only if you fly naked, without luggage, and sit on the wing. If you want an actual seat with your fare, or to carry a backpack, you're going to be opening your wallet.
LoL, so true.
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So, this bowl would probably be a 7-5 team playing an 8-4 team, usually? Miss State vs Iowa?
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So, this bowl would probably be a 7-5 team playing an 8-4 team, usually? Miss State vs Iowa?
There will not be B1G vs. SEC in this bowl. It's PAC vs. B1G or SEC.
So, likely a 10-2/9-3 PAC team vs. an 8-4/7-5 B1G or SEC team. It's the PAC's #3 bowl game.
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FYI the last time I was in Vegas we ended up at a hotel called the Vdara. It's right near the strip--they have a covered walkway over to the Bellagio, so the location was right. I got a decent deal on price--all things considered [i.e. Vegas on the weekends near the strip isn't cheap anywhere, and valet/resort fees jacked it even further].
The hotel doesn't have a casino, so you don't have all-night loud craziness going on. In fact, on a Friday and Saturday night, we were able to sleep comfortably without any interruptions. It's a smoke-free property, so there's no odor permeating the ground floor, the hallways, and certainly not the rooms. The rooms were ample-sized, nice and modern, with a little kitchenette, and a nice bathroom. On the main floor there was a little restaurant and bar, a market, a Starbucks, and all the usual amenities of a nice hotel.
In general, I found it a much nicer way to do Vegas than to stay at one of the casinos. It seemed more like the kind of place that someone that was in on business or who was an entertainer in residence would stay.
I was considering it again for my upcoming trip in June, but ended up finding the better deal at the Bellagio and figured you can't exactly go wrong there.
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Ah, I missed that. I'd like to play Pac teams more often than we do. UGA has a one and done slated with Oregon in ATL in a couple or three.
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Vegas is way overdue for a bowl upgrade and I'm glad they aren't wasting anytime once the new stadium is in place. For anyone that's been to a Vegas Bowl or attended a UNLV game, the current stadium is the dumpiest college venue I've stepped in. It wasn't a strong enough reason to excuse myself away for another Vegas trip until this new stadium came along. Not only is the current venue a dump but it's WAY out of the way. The new location is a walk or short shuttle trip from the Mandalay Bay side of the Strip.
Rumor has it the Pac 12 wanted to send their #2 tie in there but allowed the Alamo to keep the tie because they didn't want to lock in the loser of the Pac 12 Championship game, which will also be played there (another reason!).
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So if this straight-up replaces the Holiday Bowl tie-in, then it should be the third B1G team after the NY6 games, right?
As I understand it (after the NY6):
- Citrus: Last year 9-3/6-3 PSU
- Outback: Last year 8-4/5-4 Iowa
- Holiday: Last year 8-5/8-1 Northwestern
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There will not be B1G vs. SEC in this bowl. It's PAC vs. B1G or SEC.
So, likely a 10-2/9-3 PAC team vs. an 8-4/7-5 B1G or SEC team. It's the PAC's #3 bowl game.
I was assuming/hoping with the fancy new venue, this would become a bigger bowl, maybe take the place of the Outback in terms of payout, and be a good/attractive/big game, SEC vs PAC, straight up.
Oh well.
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It can get there if they do it right. The Fiesta was a WACo bowl when it started (generally for UofA and ASU, since they were the primo teams, although BYU and I think Wyoming played there too). Then it became a major player, and finally a BCS game. Now it's a NYD6 and Playoff Spot. Vegas could get to that level, or a rung below. There's enough money in Vegas to make it go.
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A bowl with a good location, a new stadium, and bags of money can become a BIG bowl in a hurry, witness Fiesta and Peach.
The number of BIG bowls now is a bit crowded, so it gets competitive.
Fiesta Peach Rose Cotton Sugar Orange
The NC game can be anywhere, in addition to those 6 locations.
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Of interest is that only one of those stadiums is not an NFL variety.
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I think only one has never changed venue either, right?
The others move as more modern stadia are built. The Peach has moved three times. It may have even been played at Grant Field once, I don't know.
The Sugar Bowl was played in Atlanta once.
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The Rose was played at Duke during WWII. They were concerned about a Japanese attack. Why they chose Duke is beyond me.
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maybe because Duke was 9-0 in 1942 and a worthy opponent?
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I didn't realize Duke played in it. Just knew that's where it was played. I stand more learned up now.
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I learn something every day. And I'm old!
learned that roses have hips this morning from a lady at the office that drinks tea
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Pacific Coast Champion Oregon State was responsible for selecting and inviting the opposing team. Number one ranked Minnesota was the first choice, but the Western Conference (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_Ten_Conference), forerunner of the Big Ten Conference, did not permit their teams to play in bowl games until the 1946 agreement between the Big Ten and Pacific Coast Conference (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pacific_Coast_Conference). Duke would have been a logical second choice, but Coach Wallace Wade had rubbed a lot of Californians the wrong way due to his antics following his 7-3 loss in the 1939 Rose Bowl. The Southern California media championed Missouri or Fordham.[6] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1942_Rose_Bowl#cite_note-6) Oregon State responded by inviting Fordham, who they had beaten in their 1933 Ironmen (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oregon_State_Beavers_football) year. Unknown to Oregon State, both Fordham and Missouri had received take it or leave it offers from the Sugar Bowl before their invite to the Rose Bowl, and each had accepted the offer. Unable to invite their three first choices, the Beavers settled on number two ranked and undefeated Duke Blue Devils (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Duke_Blue_Devils), much to the chagrin of Southern California. The selection was announced on December 1, 1941.[7] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1942_Rose_Bowl#cite_note-7)[8] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1942_Rose_Bowl#cite_note-8) Duke's defense had not allowed more than 14 points all year. The Blue Devils were averaging a 30-point victory every time they took the field. In each game, the Blue Devils won by at least 13 points. The Blue Devils were on an 11-game winning streak, having gone 24-4, and .857 winning percentage, since their 1939 Rose Bowl defeat.
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silly basketball school
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Things were a bit different back in 1942. Of course, after the 1942 season, in 1943, Georgia played in its first Rose Bowl, which was a large deal at the time. A few years back they had a pretty good team and USC had a pretty good team, and UGA played and waxed Hawaii while USC played and waxed Illinois. Missed op if you ask me.
Hawaii started the game on offense with two false starts. The noise level was well beyond anything they'd ever experienced.
So, is football better today than back then? Certainly the athletes are. I'd GUESS a Div 3 team today could beat most top teams back then.
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What bowl does this one diminish if it rises in status?
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So, is football better today than back then? Certainly the athletes are. I'd GUESS a Div 3 team today could beat most top teams back then.
It wouldn't even be close. A modern D3 team would be both bigger and faster at every position. A highly disciplined old-time team playing mistake-free ball might be able to keep it close for a while but the massive physical advantage of a modern team (even D3) would wear down a team from a prior era.
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Could a good HS team beat a Div 1 team from 1942?
Probably some of them, yes, I don't know about the top level teams.