CFB51 College Football Fan Community
The Power Five => Big Ten => Topic started by: WhiskeyM on March 04, 2019, 11:58:25 AM
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News (https://www.google.com/url?sa=i&source=web&cd=&ved=2ahUKEwiKqcaU-ejgAhVsm-AKHXjBC_MQzPwBegQIARAC&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.landgrantholyland.com%2F2019%2F3%2F4%2F18250004%2Fbig-ten-commissioner-jim-delaney-conclude-term-june-2020&psig=AOvVaw1FKBDsvF8gWUgdkhpnsJMr&ust=1551804708492872)
Figured this deserved it's own thread.
Big Jim put the B1G in a very strong position during his tenure, especially financially. But not all his decisions have been loved.
He added 2 traditional powerhouses in Penn State and Nebraska, but also controversial programs in Maryland and Rutgers.
The timing is interesting, as some conference GORs and TV contracts will expire around this time, which is expected to open up further expansion and arms races.
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I don't know whether to ding him for the whole Leaders/Legends thing or commend him for promptly correcting that horrendous blunder instead of doubling down on the stupid.
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I don't know whether to ding him for the whole Leaders/Legends thing or commend him for promptly correcting that horrendous blunder instead of doubling down on the stupid.
Eh, in the five years since the Leaders/Legends were abandoned, Wisconsin has:
- Won the West by two games over UNL/MN
- Tied with NU two games behind Iowa
- Won the West by a game over IA/UNL
- Won the west by two games over NU
- Tied with PU/IA three games behind NU
By comparison, the East has been much more competitive, Ohio State has:
- Won the East by one game over MSU
- Tied with MSU for the East title
- Tied with PSU for the East title
- Won the East by one game over MSU
- Tied with M for the East title
The dominant team in the East has won or shared all five titles but three of the five were shared and none were won by more than a game. Wisconsin has "only" won three out of five but in five years of there being a B1G-W title to win the winner has won it by at least two games four out of five years (UW twice, IA once, NU once).
2016 was the only year in which the B1G-W race was even somewhat competitive. Heading into the final weekend that year the Badgers and Cornhuskers were tied at 6-2 but Wisconsin had an easier opponent, a home game, and the tiebreaker. In order to win the Cornhuskers would have needed to beat Iowa (they lost 40-10) and they would have needed Minnesota to knock off Wisconsin (the Gophers lost 31-17). Other than that, I don't believe we have ever gone into the final weekend without already knowing who would represent the B1G-W in Indy.
Contrast the B1G-E:
2015: Ohio State and MSU went into the final weekend at 6-1. Ohio State won at Michigan while MSU beat PSU at home.
2016: Ohio State and PSU went into the final weekend at 7-1. Ohio State beat Michigan at home while PSU beat MSU at home.
2018: Ohio State went into the final weekend at 7-1 while Michigan was 8-0. The two played for a berth in the CG.
In the East, three of the five races for the CG have come down to the final weekend while in the West only one has.
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I liked his first 20 years much better than his last 10. No comparison, really.
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Maybe a better topic...who will replace him?
The timing certainly requires someone with the expertise to navigate the complexity of college footballs current landscape.
TV contracts have proven lucrative, but the streaming market is threatening traditional packages, and as a result, profits.
Content is still king though. People will watch the best match ups. Having multiple blue bloods on a conference slate is extremely attractive.
Having a strong conference, perceived or real, is also an advantage for visibility, as well as the road to the playoffs.
With GORs expiring, teams like Texas and Oklahoma will be courted, and I assume will at least entertain some offers.
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Eh, in the five years since the Leaders/Legends were abandoned, Wisconsin has:
- Won the West by two games over UNL/MN
- Tied with NU two games behind Iowa
- Won the West by a game over IA/UNL
- Won the west by two games over NU
- Tied with PU/IA three games behind NU
By comparison, the East has been much more competitive, Ohio State has:
- Won the East by one game over MSU
- Tied with MSU for the East title
- Tied with PSU for the East title
- Won the East by one game over MSU
- Tied with M for the East title
The dominant team in the East has won or shared all five titles but three of the five were shared and none were won by more than a game. Wisconsin has "only" won three out of five but in five years of there being a B1G-W title to win the winner has won it by at least two games four out of five years (UW twice, IA once, NU once).
2016 was the only year in which the B1G-W race was even somewhat competitive. Heading into the final weekend that year the Badgers and Cornhuskers were tied at 6-2 but Wisconsin had an easier opponent, a home game, and the tiebreaker. In order to win the Cornhuskers would have needed to beat Iowa (they lost 40-10) and they would have needed Minnesota to knock off Wisconsin (the Gophers lost 31-17). Other than that, I don't believe we have ever gone into the final weekend without already knowing who would represent the B1G-W in Indy.
Contrast the B1G-E:
2015: Ohio State and MSU went into the final weekend at 6-1. Ohio State won at Michigan while MSU beat PSU at home.
2016: Ohio State and PSU went into the final weekend at 7-1. Ohio State beat Michigan at home while PSU beat MSU at home.
2018: Ohio State went into the final weekend at 7-1 while Michigan was 8-0. The two played for a berth in the CG.
In the East, three of the five races for the CG have come down to the final weekend while in the West only one has.
Personally I prefer having geographically sound divisions over ones that are competitively balanced. But I'm weird like that.
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(https://www.cfb51.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fcdn2.sbnation.com%2Fimported_assets%2F1032238%2Fjimdelanymasturbator_large.jpg%3F_ga%3D2.25928057.552304797.1551730671-1231305187.1539723369&hash=05078f6f6895028e6c72411de1a78b6b)
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One of the things that the guys on local radio are raking him over the coals for is not putting certain crossover games on the schedule more often. The two examples that they spat out as ones that we don't get often enough are OSU-Nebraska and Michigan-Wisconsin.
Um, fellas? Both of those series are in the midst of a six year run of being played annually. Hello?
Now I am accustomed to being alone in my ability to notice this trend. But these guys make like six figure salaries just to sit around and Yap about Buckeye football all day long. How in the Hell did they not notice that we play the Cornhuskers every year? It is absolutely inconceivable that someone who covers Buckeye football for a living could be that oblivious. Yet here we are.
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Am thinking expansion is dead for a few more decades. With fewer high school players, and better television, this game as a spectator sport is most probably descending.
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I'm not sure Delaney did anything significant that another person would not have done in h is shoes, given there is a group of them, so I don't think his departure will mean anything.
I agree expansion is probably a long way off. Some folks like nice definitive groups of teams in conferences. I still think 12 is the best number, but I doubt anyone goes backwards by choice.
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I have formed the opinion that if the Big Ten must have divisions, then the current East-West setup is the best way to align the divisions.
But I have recently switched my opinion that the Big Ten even needs divisions. I believe after the current 6 year cycle runs its course in 2021, then it's time to scrap the divisions, and change the NCAA rules so that the 2 best teams go to the CCG. Mainly so that the conference can switch to a schedule where everybody plays everybody at least once every 2 years.
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Maybe he can add Syracuse,Central Florida or UMass to the BIG before he goes.Whether he puts them into Leaders or Legends I dunno
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Now I am accustomed to being alone in my ability to notice this trend. But these guys make like six figure salaries just to sit around and Yap about Buckeye football all day long. How in the Hell did they not notice that we play the Cornhuskers every year? It is absolutely inconceivable that someone who covers Buckeye football for a living could be that oblivious. Yet here we are.
Ever heard the term "Talking Heads"?Well that isn't referring to the band by that name
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Maybe a better topic...who will replace him?
Tressel - if it wasn't for some Tatoos
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Ever heard the term "Talking Heads"?Well that isn't referring to the band by that name
Yeah I get that they are idiots. These clowns have absolutely no idea which teams are in what conference. And listening to them guess is just sad, as they will spit out conferences that no longer exist. Like the Wac. Or the Big East. When I have harped on them for this in the past, their defenders are quick to point out that they cover the Buckeyes, not college football. Fine. I can forgive them for not noticing the Michigan-Wisconsin series. But OSU-Nebraska? They spend the entire off-season breaking down the schedule. They spend all of game week previewing the game. They recap it the following Monday. And they get paid well enough to live in the same neighborhood as several Buckeye assistant coaches and former players that had NFL careers. These are the best Jabber jocks that we can find?
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You think that's bad BB back in December ESPN was previewing the game between the Chargers-Chiefs.The douche nozzle Sreamin'A.Smith was bumping his gums about the most important match up in the game.He picked 2 players(I forget who) that weren't playing and had not played all season.ELA provided the video on page 12 of the NFL Thread.How many people were laid off and they retain that spam brain?When informed of his obvious ignorance he had that definitive Deer in the Headlights look.Can't make this shit up.I hope the guys that prepare his taxes and repair his brakes are as incompetent
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I am harping on these guys, but it is a pretty sound representation of Buckeye nation. Most fans haven't seemed to notice the fixed nature of the OSU-Nebraska series, which is just mind boggling to me. I know that the Huskers have been a little down, but you'd still think that Buckeye Nation would notice that we are playing an out of division helmet team six straight years. They were even in the top 10 for one of the match ups.
Would a six year series against Notre Dame go unnoticed? It sounds absurd, but now I am not so sure.
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Yeah I get that they are idiots. These clowns have absolutely no idea which teams are in what conference. And listening to them guess is just sad, as they will spit out conferences that no longer exist. Like the Wac. Or the Big East. When I have harped on them for this in the past, their defenders are quick to point out that they cover the Buckeyes, not college football. Fine. I can forgive them for not noticing the Michigan-Wisconsin series. But OSU-Nebraska? They spend the entire off-season breaking down the schedule. They spend all of game week previewing the game. They recap it the following Monday. And they get paid well enough to live in the same neighborhood as several Buckeye assistant coaches and former players that had NFL careers. These are the best Jabber jocks that we can find?
Clearly their incompetence has not cost them a listener [you]...
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EDSBS: https://www.everydayshouldbesaturday.com/2019/3/5/18251653/the-last-days-of-jim-delany
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Clearly their incompetence has not cost them a listener [you]...
True dat. Helps pass the workday.
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Rumor around Missouri is Delaney and his team became frustrated with Missouri and eliminated them for emotional reasons. IF true (and I suspect there are elements in truth based upon Missouri was in then then suddenly not) I think that is his biggest mistake. I know he wanted the TV market of NJ/NY, but Missouri is a growing state that actually watches college sports. I still think that was a mistake on his part...
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The future... not that I'd want it, but it will be super conferences: Two 8 or 10 team divisions that replicate the old conferences and then come together championship games. Divisions will feel like conferences and conferences will be affiliations to create negotiating power.
jmo
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My only question is do the other 12 schools vote in the event of a 1-1 tie in voting for a new commissioner? I'm not sure what the procedure is there.
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I thought Mizzou was finished as soon as Tom Osbourne tossed Nebraska's name into the hat?
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Delany didn't really do much for the Big Ten. He set some inevitable things into motion, sure, but since he didn't create our massive fanbases, all he gets credit for is semi-mindlessly strip mining them for every available penny. The next commissioner will almost certainly be of the same kind. If you want stewardship, decision making based on loooong-term incentives, and an honest resolve to improve the fan experience, then you will probably be disappointed. Getting that kind of maverick commissioner is a challenge to find, and certainly not easy to hire or set up to succeed.
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The future... not that I'd want it, but it will be super conferences: Two 8 or 10 team divisions that replicate the old conferences and then come together championship games. Divisions will feel like conferences and conferences will be affiliations to create negotiating power. jmo
I think you are right that super conferences are likely inevitable. I hope, however, that we end up at 16 rather than 20.
I've laid out my plan for 4 pods of 4 teams each and I would be pretty happy with that overall. My basic structure is that each team would play (football):
- Their three pod-mates every year (three games per year, nine games every three years, 18 games every six years (six home/six road against each))
- Their three group-mates every year (three games per year, nine games every three years, 18 games every six years (six home/six road against each))
- Three of the nine other teams each year (three games per year, nine games every three years, 18 games every six years (one home/one road against each))
That way, to most fans, it would "feel like" you were in a conference with your three pod-mates and your three group-mates. Your team would play those six schools every year and host/visit those six schools every other year. You would also maintain a reasonable connection to the other schools. You would play each of the other nine schools once every three years and host/visit them once every six years.
If we went to a 20-team super-conference with fixed 10-team divisions then even with a 10-game league schedule each team would only play one of the 10 cross-divisional opponents each year. It would take 10 years to play them all and 20 years to host/visit them all.
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Imagine the new commish was you, or me, or any reasonably sentient human. Would it really matter down the road? Other than some minor things, my guess is we'd all do the same things, being guided by the committee and Presidents and whatever else.
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The application should just have one question.
1. Are you Larry Scott?
As long as you answer no, you are probably minimally qualified to be a Power 5 commission.
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Rumor around Missouri is Delaney and his team became frustrated with Missouri and eliminated them for emotional reasons. IF true (and I suspect there are elements in truth based upon Missouri was in then then suddenly not) I think that is his biggest mistake. I know he wanted the TV market of NJ/NY, but Missouri is a growing state that actually watches college sports. I still think that was a mistake on his part...
Especially now that the St Louis Rams are the Los Angeles Rams. I don't think St Louis fans are suddenly going to join the Kansas City bandwagon, so half of the state's NFL rooting interest just walked away.
Missouri doesn't have an NBA team (so basketball is helped), and just lost 1/2 of their state's rooting interest in the NFL.
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I thought Mizzou was finished as soon as Tom Osbourne tossed Nebraska's name into the hat?
word around here is the Delaney was not impressed that Missouri started talking about joining the BIG before it happened. Many alumni blame the University and loose lips for not being in the BIG.
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The application should just have one question.
1. Are you Larry Scott?
As long as you answer no, you are probably minimally qualified to be a Power 5 commission.
I'd add a 2nd question... Have you ever been a Commissioner in the Big12?
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I'd have to disagree with the folks who imply that any commish would have positioned the B1G the same. 2 things stand out to me.
Being able to snag Penn State was a huge get. Others may not have had the desire to break tradition, or the foresight to see the bigger picture then.
Big Jim also told ESPiN to f*ck themselves, and started a conference network. That was a big risk. Even with the large alumni bases he inherited, going into that territory with cable and streaming was a ballsy move. Now everybody is trying to copy the success. I don't see just anybody going down that road.
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I'd have to disagree with the folks who imply that any commish would have positioned the B1G the same. 2 things stand out to me.
Being able to snag Penn State was a huge get. Others may not have had the desire to break tradition, or the foresight to see the bigger picture then.
Big Jim also told ESPiN to f*ck themselves, and started a conference network. That was a big risk. Even with the large alumni bases he inherited, going into that territory with cable and streaming was a ballsy move. Now everybody is trying to copy the success. I don't see just anybody going down that road.
My thoughts exactly. His first 20 years were great. Really great, in fact. It's the last 10 that are not great, or good even. Madison Square Garden for the hoops tourney? A 2nd headquarters in NYC? Expansion to 14? All Bleh.
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Getting ahead of a bad argument:
https://mobile.twitter.com/mgoblog/status/1103332881328410634
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I'd have to disagree with the folks who imply that any commish would have positioned the B1G the same. 2 things stand out to me.
Being able to snag Penn State was a huge get. Others may not have had the desire to break tradition, or the foresight to see the bigger picture then.
Big Jim also told ESPiN to f*ck themselves, and started a conference network. That was a big risk. Even with the large alumni bases he inherited, going into that territory with cable and streaming was a ballsy move. Now everybody is trying to copy the success. I don't see just anybody going down that road.
Obviously we don't agree, which is fine. But I have to be steadfast that putting it your way gives Delany too much credit while disregarding the destiny of market forces. A "Big Ten Network" isn't some impossible riddle that no one else would have puzzled through. And there was scarce extra negotiating beyond "our states have the most people" in its construction.
Then your post has this kind of double blind eye (in Delany's favor), where it disproportionately praises Delany for the Big Ten's inevitable wealth while simultaneously forgiving him for the football quarters where - born of Delany's latest TV contracts - sometimes there are literally more commercials than plays from scrimmage. To me, that's nonsense. The only reliable thing that everyone can say about Delany is that he made himself many boats full of money.
What's the argument that he improved the fan experience or at least slowed its degradation? All answers are welcome to include extra but must at least account for Rutgers, "Leaders & Legends" and games now running 4-hours in regulation.
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My thoughts exactly. His first 20 years were great. Really great, in fact. It's the last 10 that are not great, or good even. Madison Square Garden for the hoops tourney? A 2nd headquarters in NYC? Expansion to 14? All Bleh.
I agree his most recent years were a disaster. I'd say the job report for his first 20 reads "was present and unremarkable" - a positive period for the Big Ten, no doubt, but my argument is that there was precious little to revolutionize or mess up, so what's the point in praise?
As for adding the Nits, we need more insider info about those negotiations before canonizing Delany for that -- who reached out to whom, how many realistic competitor conferences were there, whether any of those could equal the Big Ten in dollars and growth, etc?
Delany gets bad grades when it actually mattered and a check mark for showing up to work when it didn't.