CFB51 College Football Fan Community
The Power Five => Big Ten => Topic started by: medinabuckeye1 on February 01, 2019, 10:45:40 AM
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In preparation for @OrangeAfroMan (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=58) 's upcoming post on who would win the 1996 CFP:
I've always thought this was an interesting year in part due to my team's involvement (UF couldn't have won without the exact results of Ohio State's last two games - lost to M, beat ASU). Also because of the way UF lost, seemed to fall out of contention, then got back into contention and ultimately won their first NC. Also, IIRC, this was the most recent year in which the AP National Champion had never previously won an AP NC.
On November 11 every team in the top-10 had zero or one losses and they all (with the exception of #10 BYU) had at least a plausible shot at the NC. That weekend (11/16) three of the top-10 lost with two of those losses being shocking upsets:
- #6/7 UNC lost to a mediocre UVA team
- #8 Bama lost to a sub .500 MissSt team
- #9 KSU lost to #6 Colorado.
When the dust settled from the 11/16 upsets there were six teams left with a plausible chance at the NC. What is surprising is that all six lost between then and the end of the season.
- #2 Ohio State lost to Michigan on 11/23
- #6 Colorado lost to UNL on 11/29
- #1 Florida lost to FSU on 11/30
- #5 UNL lost to Texas on 12/7
- #4 ASU lost to tOSU on 1/1
- #3 FSU lost to UF on 1/2
Saturday, November 23, 1996:
- #1 Florida did not play
- #2 Ohio State lost 13-9 to #21 Michigan
- #3 Florida State beat nr Maryland 48-10
- #4 Arizona State beat nr Arizona 56-14
- #5 Nebraska did not play
- #6 Colorado did not play
Thanksgiving weekend, Friday and Saturday November 29/30, 1996:
- #1 Florida lost to #2 Florida State 24-21
- #2 Florida State beat #1 Florida 24-21
- #3 Arizona State did not play
- #4 Nebraska beat #5 Colorado 17-12
- #5 Colorado lost to #4 Nebraska 17-12 (Colorado is not included after this loss because it was their second and dropped them from contention)
- #6 Ohio State did not play
CCG Weekend, Saturday, December 7, 1996:
- #1 Florida State did not play
- #2 Arizona State did not play
- #3 Nebraska lost to nr Texas 37-27 (Nebraska is not included after this loss because it was their second and dropped them from contention)
- #4 Florida beat #11 Alabama 45-30
- #5 Ohio State did not play
Bowls:
- #1 Florida State lost to #3 Florida 52-20
- #2 Arizona State lost to #4 Ohio State 20-17
- #3 Florida beat #1 Florida State 52-20
- #4 Ohio State beat #2 Arizona State 20-17
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You do good work around here.
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I also find this particular season fascinating because if this had played out either a few years earlier or a few years later Florida would not have had a chance at the NC.
This was in the Bowl Championship Alliance era. That is a very short era of only three seasons from 1995-1997 before the BCS.
If this had played out prior to the BCA:
- FSU would have finished the regular season #1 and ACC Champions. They would likely have headed to the OrangeBowl to play Big8 Champion #3 Nebraska.
- ASU would have finished the season #2 and Pac10 Champions headed to the RoseBowl to play #5 Ohio State.
- Nebraska wouldn't have had a B12CG because they were in the Big8 where they would have finished 10-1 Big8 Champions and #3 headed to the OrangeBowl to play #1 FSU.
- Florida would have finished the regular season 11-1 and SEC Champions at #4. They would have headed to the SugarBowl to play?
- Ohio State would have finished the regular season 10-1 and Big11Ten Champions at #5. They would have headed to the RoseBowl to play #2 ASU.
If this had played out a few years later in the BCS era:
- #1 FSU and #2 ASU would have played in the BCSCG. #3 Florida would have been in the SugarBowl while #4 Ohio State would have been in the RoseBowl against an ASU replacement.
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and ya wonder why some folks think I hate the Longhorns
I don't btw, but some folks think I might, and Saturday, December 7, 1996 would be a good reason
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If this had played out prior to the BCA:
- FSU would have finished the regular season #1 and ACC Champions. They would likely have headed to the OrangeBowl to play Big8 Champion #3 Nebraska.
- ASU would have finished the season #2 and Pac10 Champions headed to the RoseBowl to play #5 Ohio State.
- Nebraska wouldn't have had a B12CG because they were in the Big8 where they would have finished 10-1 Big8 Champions and #3 headed to the Orange Bowl to play #1 FSU.
yup, first year of the Big 12 didn't help the Husker's chances at a 3-peat
Obviously could have been beaten by #1 FSU in the Orange, it's happened before, but if the Skers got the upset and revenge all they needed was an Ohio St victory over #2 ASU and there would be no chance for Florida
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yup, first year of the Big 12 didn't help the Husker's chances at a 3-peat
Obviously could have been beaten by #1 FSU in the Orange, it's happened before, but if the Skers got the upset and revenge all they needed was an Ohio St victory over #2 ASU and there would be no chance for Florida
I don't think there would be much chance for Ohio State there either but it would have been an interesting debate. Suppose that happened: 1996 plays out but pre BCA:
- #1 Florida State loses to #3 Nebraska in the OrangeBowl
- #2 Arizona State loses to #5 Ohio State in the RoseBowl
- #3 Nebraska beats #1 FSU in the OrangeBowl
- #4 Florida . . . For simplicity lets just assume they lose in the SugarBowl.
- #5 Ohio State beats #2 ASU in the RoseBowl
Ohio State would be Nebraska's only contention for the final #1 ranking.
- Losses: Ohio State lost 13-9 at home to a Michigan team that finished the season ranked #20. Nebraska lost 19-0 on the road to an ASU team that finished the season ranked #4. Ohio State's loss was closer but it was at home and to a worse team. That favors Nebraska.
Quality wins:
- Ohio State beat final #4 ASU 20-17 at a neutral site in a bowl.
- In this hypothetical Nebraska beat final #3 FSU but we haven't stipulated a score.
- Ohio State also beat #7 PSU (38-7 at home), #18 Iowa (38-26 on the road), #19 Notre Dame (29-16 on the road).
- Nebraska also beat #8 Colorado (17-12 at home). I am not including Nebraska's loss to #23 Texas or their win over #13 VaTech because in this hypothetical neither of those games happened.
Common opponents:
- Nebraska played MSU from the Big11Ten, but the Buckeyes didn't so there is only one:
- Arizona State: The Buckeyes beat the Sun Devils 20-17 at a neutral site, the Cornhuskers lost to them 19-0 on the road. Obviously this favors Ohio State.
The big wildcard is the Nebraska/FSU score. Ohio State has a much better schedule with five ranked opponents (2 home, 2 road, 1 neutral) compared to Nebraska's three (1 home, 1 road, 1 neutral). Ohio State's blowout win over #7 Penn State easily betters Nebraska's win over #8 Colorado and Nebraska has nothing to compare to Ohio State's two road wins over ranked teams.
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the other factor would be the Husker's two previous undefeated seasons and crystal footballs
do the voters give them the vote because of respect for the past seasons or do they favor the Bucks because they don't care to see the Huskers get 3 in a row?
interesting, sure wish the Big 12 would have waited a year and we could have this scenario play out.
In this case as with the 97 season, I would have been very happy with a split
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The '96 Huskers wouldn't have beaten FSU in that matchup IMO. Our most dynamic player on defense (Terrell Farley) had been booted off the team and our top 2 IBs (Ahman Green and DeAngelo Evans) had chronic injuries. Evans season was actually done after the CGG.
Still good enough to put away #10 Virginny Tech by 20 in the Orange Bowl, but FSU was a different animal.
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I'd agree. Although Green did run 7 times vs the Hokies for 52 yards
Terwillinger was a senior, but obviously no Farley
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Ok, so personal story I want to share about those 1996 bowl games:
I was a Senior at Ohio State in 1996 and got a ticket through the school's lottery for students (more on that in a separate post). In the mean time, my dad talked to a friend who knew a guy who was in the Pasadena Chamber of Commerce and my dad got four tickets for our family (Mom, Dad, Brother, and me) to go to the game.
We drove to LA, met the friend-of-a-friend who had our tickets and got our tickets a few days early then drove up the coast to Hearst Castle and Morrow Bay California. That was beautiful. It was mating season for the Elephant Seals and watching the male Elephant Seals fight (think Sumo Wrestlers but like 2,500 lbs) was great. Hearst Castle and Morrow Bay were also highlights of a trip that had LOTS of highlights.
We did NYE in California (if you have never been there for NYE, it is interesting because they do NYC NYE at 9pm, then Chicago NYE at 10pm, then Denver NYE at 11pm, and if anybody hasn't already passed out by then, they have their own NYE at midnight.
We watched the Rose Parade then walked down to the Rose Bowl for the game. Ohio State won, of course and after the game we headed for home. NYD was a Monday and I was off school on Tuesday, January 2 but I had classes on Wednesday, January 3 as did my little brother who was still in HS.
After the game we headed up I15 toward Barstow, CA to catch I40E toward home. We had to gas up somewhere along there. I need to explain this to people who are not familiar with California. If you haven't been there, you probably think of California as packed with people because they are the most populous state. That is only somewhat true. First, it wasn't nearly as populous 20+ years ago and secondly, something like 90% of the population lives in the coastal cities. The rest of the state is (or at least was) mostly sparsely populated desert. Anyway, we stopped for gas in some tiny town with two gas stations. IIRC, gas at the time was selling for about $1.25/gallon and in California it was about $0.50/gallon higher. One gas station had a price of $1.779 but they were closed. The other one was charging something like $2.75. I pointed out that the other station was about a dollar cheaper. The guy working there said "Yep, they open at 8am and at 8am I'll be charging $1,779 but at midnight it is $2.75. We paid the ridiculous gas price and drove on.
If you are not familiar, Barstow, CA is the western terminus of I40. Some jackass from CADOT decided it would be really funny to put a sign about half-way down the ramp from I15 to I40 that says "I40 East, Wilmington, NC 2,554 Mi". Let me tell you, that is one depressing sign when you have to drive most of that to get home.
We spent the night of 1/1/97 - 1/2/97 in a motel in Needles, CA (right on the CA/AZ border) then got up the next morning and drove all the way back to Columbus where my parents and brother dropped me off (then they drove the rest of the way home). Tuesday morning, January 2, 1997 we stopped in Kingman Arizona to buy an Arizona Newspaper with the Rose Bowl result on the front page.
I40 is almost 400 miles each across Arizona and New Mexico. The Orange Bowl was Tuesday evening/night so we listened to it on the Radio across Eastern New Mexico and the Texas Panhandle. @OrangeAfroMan (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=58) will appreciate this, we were rooting for a very sloppy UF win, LoL.
I drove through the night and I remember driving through OKC in the wee hours of Wednesday morning. We had a CB radio in the van and I was talking with a lady truck driver who was also unfamiliar with OKC. Everyone in the van was asleep. When we left OKC heading NE on the Oklahoma Turnpike (I44) the speed limit increased to 75 MPH. I ran up to about 80 and set the cruise. Pretty soon the headlights of the 18 wheeler that I had navigated through OKC with were on my bumper then this lady passed me and she had to be doing 90+. It was so windy that when I got above about 80 MPH the van was getting blown side-to-side across the highway. I dropped the cruise back to about 80 MPH and told the truck driver to have a safe drive and that I couldn't keep up.
We got to Columbus in the early afternoon on Wednesday, January 3. It was a great trip and as I sit here in my office typing this there is a picture frame on the wall behind me containing my ticket stub, an Ohio State logo, and a picture of my Mom, Dad, Brother, and me under the Scoreboard showing the final score.
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that's a long drive
my family drove to Cali and back in 1976. Gas in Arizona was 75 cents a gallon and I thought my father was gonna make us walk
I flew to the Rose Bowl after the 2001 season. Many Husker fans drove their diesel pickup trucks
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96 was last great poll era season and of the best in my lifetime.
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Wow, we couldn't wait a few days, huh guys?
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Very cool, medina.
I recall watching Florida lose @ FSU and being so full of nervous energy and anger - I immediately went out in the garage and started bench-pressing until I was exhausted and couldn't get the weight off my chest. I had to clumsily tilt it to one side and let the weights fall off, then have it flip to the other side. I was too embarrassed to yell for help. I was 16, lol.
So after that debacle, I go straight to my room and back then I was a sports nut, I mean NUT. I knew every player on every team in every major sport. So without needing any TV talking heads or anything, I wrote down the 4 things that needed to happen for Florida to still win the NC.
1. Texas had to beat Nebraska
2. Florida had to beat Alabama
3. Ohio State had to beat ASU
4. Florida had to beat FSU.
At the time I guess I just figured Florida was too good not to win it all. It wasn't even "want to", it was more "okay, they're going to win the NC, so how can it still happen, because it's going to happen". It probably had something to do with the Fiesta Bowl with Nebraska and getting back there again, I don't know.
And it all happened. Texas beating Nebraska was, by far, the least likely, so once that happened, it was on. Wuerffel passed for 6 TDs on Bama, who had only allowed 5 passing TD all season. Germaine to Boston sent Jake the Snake packing, and by the time the Sugar Bowl rolled around, I'm not sure FSU had much of a chance. The Noles were sort of like the Cardinals after the Red Sox came back from 0-3 to beat the Yankees to reverse the curse...after all that magic, they were standing in the way of the storybook ending.
And THAT'S the game Spurrier finally relented, changed/updated his blocking scheme to join the 20th century, and used a lot of shotgun. Imagine if he'd allow his great offense to be pantsed in the NCG again!?! He had to change and thankfully did. The defense didn't let Warrick Dunn beat them again, and we got our first natty. Still my favorite team of all-time.
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Wow, we couldn't wait a few days, huh guys?
I could have waited
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The '96 Huskers wouldn't have beaten FSU in that matchup IMO. Our most dynamic player on defense (Terrell Farley) had been booted off the team and our top 2 IBs (Ahman Green and DeAngelo Evans) had chronic injuries. Evans season was actually done after the CGG.
Still good enough to put away #10 Virginny Tech by 20 in the Orange Bowl, but FSU was a different animal.
Agree.. UNL was not at FSU's level in '96.
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Wow, we couldn't wait a few days, huh guys?
Medina does some really nice work here, as usual, and no, we couldn't wait.
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So after that debacle, I go straight to my room and back then I was a sports nut, I mean NUT. I knew every player on every team in every major sport. So without needing any TV talking heads or anything, I wrote down the 4 things that needed to happen for Florida to still win the NC.
1. Texas had to beat Nebraska
2. Florida had to beat Alabama
3. Ohio State had to beat ASU
4. Florida had to beat FSU.
I pretty much made the same list right after Ohio State's loss to Michigan. My list was:
- #2 Florida State loses to Florida.
- #1 Florida loses to Alabama.
- The Colorado/Nebraska winner loses to Texas.
- Ohio State beats #3 ASU in the Rose Bowl.
Like I said earlier, on the drive home from the RoseBowl we were rooting for Florida but we wanted a really close win in a really sloppy game. Even with that, we knew it wasn't going to happen because #3 wasn't realistically going to beat #1 and end up behind #4.
After Florida lost to Florida State I figured I needed this:
- Florida loses to Alabama.
- Nebraska loses to Texas.
- Florida State loses to their bowl opponent (maybe Colorado?)
- Ohio State beats ASU.
I'm pretty sure that would have done it. If both Florida and Nebraska had lost their CG's I'm not sure who FSU's bowl opponent would have been. The top-3 after the CG's would have been:
- 11-0 Florida State
- 11-0 Arizona State
- 10-1 Ohio State
After that it gets really difficult to guess:
- previous #3 Nebraska would have been 10-2 coming off of a loss to nr Texas
- previous #4 Florida would have been 10-2 coming off of a loss to #11 Alabama
- previous #6 BYU would have been 13-1 coming off of a win over Wyoming (I think).
- previous #7 Colorado would have been 10-2
- previous #8 Penn State would have been 10-2
- previous #9 Tennessee would have been 9-2
- previous #10 Northwestern would have been 9-2
- previous #11 Bama would have been 10-2 coming off of a win over #4 Florida
There are a few things I don't remember now. One is I don't know if BYU was a party to the BCA agreement. I'm not sure that it matters but it might. It is possible that Bama's win over Florida would have leap-frogged them all the way up to #4. That might have made sense because UNL/UF/Colo/PSU/TN were not conference champions. If so then the BCA CG (Orange Bowl) would have been between #1 FSU and #4 Bama while the Rose Bowl was between #2 ASU and #3 Ohio State.
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Medina does some really nice work here, as usual, and no, we couldn't wait.
Thanks. I just think it was a really interesting season. I don't think there are a whole lot of seasons (particularly back then when you had less CG's and no CFP) where the top-6 teams all lost games after mid-November.
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I predict that Fro's 96 thread won't be as good as this one.
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It will be if he just posts a poll and links to this thread.
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So long as he doesn't have to post a pic....O0
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Thanks. I just think it was a really interesting season. I don't think there are a whole lot of seasons (particularly back then when you had less CG's and no CFP) where the top-6 teams all lost games after mid-November.
2007?
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I predict that Fro's 96 thread won't be as good as this one.
Who needs enemies with fellow posters like you guys
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After Florida lost to Florida State I figured I needed this:
- Florida loses to Alabama.
- Nebraska loses to Texas.
Which of these did you deem more likely?
After rewatching Florida-Bama, that wasn't a good Alabama team. I mean they had a ton of things go their way in that game, and still got handled. I'll never know how they scored 30 points with that QB. The game (45-30) was closer than the quality of the teams, imo.
To me, Texas had no shot vs Nebraska. I wonder, if to someone outside the SEC, was Alabama that unlikely to pull the upset or no?
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To me, Texas had no shot vs Nebraska.
no one knew about the curse at that point
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Which of these did you deem more likely?
As an outsider to both the SEC and the B12, at the time I thought that Bama>UF was much more likely than TX>UNL.
Part of that was simply rankings. The Gators and Cornhuskers were about the same but Bama was pretty highly ranked while Texas was unranked. Another part of it was that I really had no recollection of Texas being a national contender whereas Alabama had recently won an NC. The final reason was that Nebraska just seemed like an invincible machine. I thought of Florida as a good team, but I had watched the 1996 Fiesta Bowl (95 season) and just thought there was a considerable gap between the Cornhuskers and the Gators.
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Isn't that interesting though, and we all do it, how a team gets that benefit of the doubt, season-to-season? The '96 Huskers ran for over 100 yards less per game than in '95. Moreover, they averaged nearly 2 yards less PER CARRY in '96. That's enormous. So while the defense remained great, the offense was a far cry from the year prior.
Meanwhile, Florida tightened things up on defense in '96 and the offense was still great.
This reminds me of a study I want to do on peaks within programs. Not by season record, but by pass/run offense and pass/run defense. Like how long does it take opponents to find a way to combat a part of the game you've learned to dominate and/or do the players leaving or coming in dictate success in a particular portion of the game? Does either situation occur more often than the other? Is there an average number of seasons a peak lasts?
And connected to that, possibly, is how certain "great" players may hinder team success. When the HC caters to his top player - just because you have a stud RB, should you give him a ton of carries when you otherwise wouldn't? If you have a great WR, do you pass too often because of him? Things like that.
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Loved the the finish to the ‘96 season. Other than Nebraska I don’t believe anyone would’ve had a chance to beat the Gators on the night they ran over the Seminoles 52-20.
Edit: And I never considered medina’s comment: “Also, IIRC, this was the most recent year in which the AP National Champion had never previously won an AP NC. “
Always forget about that early 80s Clemson title. Makes you wonder if someone were to win their first NC, who might it reasonably be?
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Wisconsin?
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List of NCAA recognized National Champions.
https://www.ncaa.com/news/football/article/college-football-national-championship-history
Big Ten
Michigan: 9/4 outright
Ohio State: 8/4 outright
Minnesota 6/5 outright
Nebraska: 5/3 outright
Penn State: 4/2 outright
Michigan State: 3/1 outright
Illinois: 3/0 outright
Chicago: 1 outright
Maryland: 1 outright
Iowa: 1/0 outright
Rutgers: 1/0 outright
Wisconsin, Purdue, Indiana and Northwestern: Zilch, zero, nada and goose egg.
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Even when a bad team plays a top team, they have "a chance". It might be 1%, or less, but massive upsets obviously happen.
The outcome of one game doesn't mean the winner was the better team of course. We can only speculate as to which team was more likely to prevail, or which would have won 6 times out of 10, or 7. I think folks forget often that a decent team can beat a powerhouse 2-3 times in 10.
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List of NCAA recognized National Champions.
https://www.ncaa.com/news/football/article/college-football-national-championship-history
Big Ten
Michigan: 9/4 outright
Ohio State: 8/4 outright
Minnesota 6/5 outright
Nebraska: 5/3 outright
Penn State: 4/2 outright
Michigan State: 3/1 outright
Illinois: 3/0 outright
Chicago: 1 outright
Maryland: 1 outright
Iowa: 1/0 outright
Rutgers: 1/0 outright
Wisconsin, Purdue, Indiana and Northwestern: Zilch, zero, nada and goose egg.
I'm 52 and I have to freaking clue what you are talking about.
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I'm 52 and I have to freaking clue what you are talking about.
:57:
Unfortunately for Minnesota, 52 is not nearly old enough to remember the Gophers' glory days.
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At least they had glory days.
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But yeah, I don't think anyone outside of the South is going to win one anytime soon.
Out on the Left Coast the youth participation is waning. The Pac 12 is toast.
Ohio State was the only team outside of the South that still even tried to play football at an elite level. I thought it was over when Tressel left. Now I'm really worried. If Penn St, Michigan, Notre Dame and Nebraska can all fall off of the National State, then Ohio State can too. And we may very well have just seen it happen.
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Which programs outside the South have a reasonable shot?
Notre Dame has made the dance a couple of times. I guess Oklahoma is in the "south"? What about USC? Gone? Ohio State is an obvious candidate. I think they actually won one fairly recently. I was walking through the airport in Portland when they were playing.
I guess a question whether any team not named Alabama or Clemson can win it.
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I'd say Texlahoma is "part of the South"
The Left Coast will probably have enough talent to keep USC afloat for a while. They "could" win it. But they are not very good right now, and don't have much promise on the immediate horizon.
Notre Dame still has a long way to go. They can make it to the playoffs by running the table as they have, but they will continue to get absolutely boat raced once they get there. Same with any other Northern team, for the most part. They still have the population up North, but they don't have that "win at all costs" mentality that makes the teams in the South so competitive. Instead they have "gentleman's agreements" and still have a willingness to work with the NCAA "self reporting" violations and whatnot.
The jury is still out on OSU, although they appear to be trending downward. They will probably stay on as a regional power, since they compete in a conference that has to live off of their table scraps. But the gap between them and the Bamas and Clemsons of the world just got a whole lot wider.
All of this is "imo" obviously.
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One thing about the South is that basketball is a distant second cousin for top athletes in most cases. Football is the focus. Now of course folks play football almost year round from the age of, well, it seems like 3 or 4. Kids in the 9th grade go to ING Academy because of weather. The HS football programs around me are astounding in terms of equipment and facilities.
This is one reason the state of Georgia has become such a recruiting hot bed, coupled with population growth. It's now larger than Michigan.
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Yeah, Kentucky loves basketball because they've been good at it forever.
I honestly couldn't tell you the 2nd-most rabid SEC basketball fanbase. Arkansas? Vandy? Miss State? Mizzou? Blindfold on, throw a dart.
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One thing about the South is that basketball is a distant second cousin for top athletes in most cases. Football is the focus. Now of course folks play football almost year round from the age of, well, it seems like 3 or 4. Kids in the 9th grade go to ING Academy because of weather. The HS football programs around me are astounding in terms of equipment and facilities.
This is one reason the state of Georgia has become such a recruiting hot bed, coupled with population growth. It's now larger than Michigan.
It may be bigger than Ohio, Illinois, and Pennsylvania in our lifetime too.
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Yeah, Kentucky loves basketball because they've been good at it forever.
I honestly couldn't tell you the 2nd-most rabid SEC basketball fanbase. Arkansas? Vandy? Miss State? Mizzou? Blindfold on, throw a dart.
I've always heard it's comfortably Arkansas, but I have no personal experience to speak to that. Granted that was also pre-Missouri.
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How UGA stays so bad at men's Bball is interesting to me. They have been to one final four, ever. They used to have more fans show up for gymnastic events than bball.
I'm going to say their academic requirements are too high, yeah.
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Which programs outside the South have a reasonable shot?
Not many. When Oklahoma and Ohio State are struggling to compete the rest of us face a steep climb.
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How many programs have a reasonable shot period?
Granted, we've only had five. If we ignore the first year as an anomaly (!), we've had two winners.
And, the #1 and #2 teams in the preseason rankings will be those two teams, again.
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I predict Clemson will fade after Saban retires.
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How UGA stays so bad at men's Bball is interesting to me. They have been to one final four, ever. They used to have more fans show up for gymnastic events than bball.
I'm going to say their academic requirements are too high, yeah.
Didn't a completely mediocre UGA win the SEC tournament a few years ago and make the field as a 14-seed?
And "only" one Final Four is still better than a lot of schools. Current #1 Tennessee has zero (and just one Elite Eight if memory serves)
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Yeah, UGA that year was 4-12 in SEC play. A tornado whipped through downtown ATL during the tournament stopping one game. UGA won four in a row at the tournament to make the NCAAs.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2008_SEC_Men%27s_Basketball_Tournament
During overtime of the Friday night quarterfinal between Mississippi State and Alabama, a tornado hit the Georgia Dome at 9:40 p.m.[4] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2008_SEC_Men%27s_Basketball_Tournament#cite_note-ajc_windstorm-4)The National Weather Service had issued a tornado warning at 9:26 p.m., because radar indicated a thunderstorm capable of producing a tornado.[5] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2008_SEC_Men%27s_Basketball_Tournament#cite_note-5) The storm tore open a panel on the north side of the dome; sheared bolts and insulation fell into the arena. After the storm passed, the teams returned to the court at 10:30 and completed the game.[4] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2008_SEC_Men%27s_Basketball_Tournament#cite_note-ajc_windstorm-4)
Georgia, which had a sub-.500 record going into the tournament and had to win the title to secure an NCAA Tournament bid, was forced to play and win three games in the space of 30 hours, including two games on Saturday — the original quarterfinal game against Kentucky that was postponed by the tornado and venue change, and the subsequent semifinal game.
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Is it odd that I find pride in Florida's apathy about basketball? We won back-to-back NCs in hoops and it's like: cool, how's the football team doing?
Having NCs in football, basketball, and baseball, all within 10 years is pretty cool, though.
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Is it odd that I find pride in Florida's apathy about basketball? We won back-to-back NCs in hoops and it's like: cool, how's the football team doing?
Having NCs in football, basketball, and baseball, all within 10 years is pretty cool, though.
I watched Florida win the football NC in Glendale, Arizona in January, 2007 then watched them win the BB NC a few months later in Atlanta, Georgia. As an Ohio State fan it was frustrating to lose both to the same school. If you think about it, it really shouldn't be. Ohio State's accomplishment of making the CG in both in the same year is a phenomenal achievement. AFAIK, only Ohio State, Florida, and Oklahoma have ever done that (I could be missing somebody). If Ohio State had lost the CFB CG to a football school that typically sucks at BB (say Bama) and lost the CBB CG to a BB school that typically sucks at FB (say Kansas) it would have felt a lot better, LoL.
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As fans, we can put the definition of "successful year" too high for those of us who are fans of upper level programs.
I try and think each year what kind of season would be a success and it's never included winning the whole thing (which would be a success obviously). A season is either a success or a disappointment, with a narrow line in between, which is where UGA ended up this past year in fact.
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Yes, and a lot of that depends when you were born, in comparison to how your school has done during your viewing lifetime.
I may be among the worst "mighty" Gators fans, because my viewing lifetime began the same year Spurrier started at Florida. My few college football memories pre-1990 weren't necessarily of Florida football.
So I've seen all of UF's NCs, 2 Heismans, all of the SEC titles, and a top 3 program overall, nationally. So that's my baseline as we inch forward. Yes, a 9-3 regular season being considered good or over-achieving feels odd.
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Heh. I became a Badger fan in the '80's, BKB (Before King Barry). I remember being able to get a sweatshirt outside of the stadium for $3. T-shirts were $2. If you stood outside the stadium before the game, it was very likely you could get a ticket for somewhere between $0 and $5, depending on the opponent.
If it was Iowa, they were higher, and there would be 25-30K Iowa fans inside.
Needless to say, the past 25+ years have been really fun.
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Didn't a completely mediocre UGA win the SEC tournament a few years ago and make the field as a 14-seed?
And "only" one Final Four is still better than a lot of schools. Current #1 Tennessee has zero (and just one Elite Eight if memory serves)
I wouldn't say better than a lot of schools. You are correct, Tennessee has never been. 2nd most NCAA Tourney appearances without a Final Four, behind only Missouri. Alabama, Boston College, Texas Tech, Vanderbilt, Arizona State, Texas A&M, Clemson, Miami and Virginia Tech are some other Power 5 schools with a decent-ish history to have never made one.
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Yes, and a lot of that depends when you were born, in comparison to how your school has done during your viewing lifetime.
I may be among the worst "mighty" Gators fans, because my viewing lifetime began the same year Spurrier started at Florida. My few college football memories pre-1990 weren't necessarily of Florida football.
So I've seen all of UF's NCs, 2 Heismans, all of the SEC titles, and a top 3 program overall, nationally. So that's my baseline as we inch forward. Yes, a 9-3 regular season being considered good or over-achieving feels odd.
Saw an MSU fan (prior to this 2 game mini-slide) saying he really needed a deep tourney run this year because it's "been a while." I think statements like that show when various MSU fans allegiance started. It's been a while? 4 years? 7 Final Fours in like 15 years really spoiled the hell out of that fan base. I think only 8 schools have been to as many EVER as MSU has been to since 1999, and they are all blue bloods (Duke, UNC, Kentucky, UCLA, Indiana, Kansas, etc...) MSU themselves had only been to 2 ever prior to that.
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Is it odd that I find pride in Florida's apathy about basketball? We won back-to-back NCs in hoops and it's like: cool, how's the football team doing?
Having NCs in football, basketball, and baseball, all within 10 years is pretty cool, though.
I find it infuriating, Lol. Florida clearly is a football school but has 5 Final Fours and two national titles in the last 25 years.
Michigan and Ohio St also have solid basketball traditions where football is king.
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I find it infuriating, Lol. Florida clearly is a football school but has 5 Final Fours and two national titles in the last 25 years.
Michigan and Ohio St also have solid basketball traditions where football is king.
It is a source of pride for this Buckeye fan that Ohio State has arguably the greatest combination of CFB and CBB success. The Buckeyes are generally considered a "football school" and football is definitely king but the Basketball Buckeyes have:
- 28 NCAA appearances (tied for 27th nationally)
- 14 Sweet16's (tied for third in the B1G and tied for 17th nationally)
- 10 Final four appearances (first in the B1G and sixth nationally behind only UNC, UK, UCLA, Dook, and KU)
- 1 NC
- 20 Conference titles (third behind Purdue and Indiana)
In football Ohio State is the definition of consistency but in basketball things have tended to be more feast-or-famine as evidenced by the fact that the Buckeyes are comparatively much better in Final Fours (both nationally and in conference) than in appearances with S16's falling in the middle. Further illustrating the feast-or-famine nature of Ohio State's basketball program is the fact that the Buckeyes trail only five absolute BB Bluebloods in final four appearances but note that each of those five have at least twice as many S16's and at least half-again as many tournament appearances as Ohio State. As noted, the Buckeyes are just 17th nationally in S16 appearances. In spite of that rather pedestrian showing in S16's, the Buckeyes are sixth in E8's because they are a perfect 14-0 in S16 games. Then they are an impressive 10-4 in E8 games.
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I find it infuriating, Lol. Florida clearly is a football school but has 5 Final Fours and two national titles in the last 25 years.
Michigan and Ohio St also have solid basketball traditions where football is king.
Ohio State is probably the most underrated basketball school in the nation, because it's a top 10 all time program, but it's still second fiddle on its own campus. Purdue might be right there too, because it's a postseason dominated sport, and Purdue's regular season history is fantastic...its postseason history, not so much.
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Heh. I became a Badger fan in the '80's, BKB (Before King Barry). I remember being able to get a sweatshirt outside of the stadium for $3. T-shirts were $2. If you stood outside the stadium before the game, it was very likely you could get a ticket for somewhere between $0 and $5, depending on the opponent.
If it was Iowa, they were higher, and there would be 25-30K Iowa fans inside.
Needless to say, the past 25+ years have been really fun.
Student tickets were $6/game in 1992 and 1993. After "we" won the Rose Bowl they *gasp* doubled the cost, to $12/game.
1993 was such a great time to be a student and football fan at Wisconsin.
I wasn't a Badger fan before I became interested in going there as a student in about 1990. At that point, the hockey team was the big athletic draw. But I had been a fan of plenty of consistently mediocre or bad sports teams, including Stanford football and basketball, the San Francisco Giants, the Golden State Warriors, and the Vancouver Canucks--all of whom had their moments of potential glory, but who couldn't seal the deal and weren't consistently good.
There was a stretch when my kids were just starting to pay attention to sports with me that I couldn't believe how spoiled they were. From 2010 to 2015, the Giants won three World Series, the Badgers played in three Rose Bowls, Notre Dame played for the national title, The Badgers men's basketball was in consecutive Final Fours, the local team, the 49ers, played in three straight conference championships and a Super Bowl, my NFL team, the Packers, won a Super Bowl, and the Golden State Warriors were clearly on an upward trend, which has subsequently resulted in three championships in four years.
It's hard to teach sports perspective to kids who get that. To this day they are disappointed that the Giants and the Badgers aren't routinely the best of the best (they are kind of used to Notre Dame not being quite where SFIrish wants them). :-)
Yeah, it's been a good 25 years to be a Badger.