CFB51 College Football Fan Community
The Power Five => Big Ten => Topic started by: OrangeAfroMan on January 29, 2019, 09:33:19 PM
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1995 "What if" College Football Playoff.
It's early December of 1995 - no bowls played, the regular season over.
Who do you predict wins the playoff?
1 Nebraska vs 4 Ohio St/Tennessee
2 Florida vs 3 Northwestern
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***This is a fun, unique situation - a literal tie for 4th place. Who would have been included? Excluded? Would either put up a fight vs the Huskers?
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#1 Nebraska, 11-0, Big 8 Champions
1st in scoring offense
4th in scoring defense
24th in strength of schedule
Fresh off their NC in 1994, Nebraska dominated their 11 game schedule, which included three top 10 opponents. The Huskers beat #8 KSU by 24, at #7 CU by 23, and at #10 KU by 38, all in a period of 4 weeks. The offense couldn't be stopped, scoring over 40 points nine times, and at least 35 scored in every contest.
QB Frazier orchestrated an option offense averaging 550+ ypg, including 400 on the ground. He was an efficient passer, with a great (for an option QB) 17/4 TD-INT ratio. I-back Green averaged 7.7 ypc, co-starter? Phillips averaged 7.7, backup Childs averaged 7.8. Frazier and FB Makovicka combined to average 6 ypc. No one stopped them. No one could.
Teams couldn't run on Nebraska and often didn't because they were behind most of the time. The Blackshirts D allowed 78 yards rushing per game. The pass D kept teams under 50% comp rate and picked off 20 passes.
Special teams were solid, with very good punt returning and accurate FG kicking being the strengths.
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#2 Florida, 12-0, SEC Champions
4th in scoring offense
31st in scoring defense
16th in strength of schedule
The Gators' offense was also record-breaking, helping Florida to double-digit wins over all five ranked opponents it faced. Spurrier and Co. hung 62 on #8 Tennessee and 49 at #7 Auburn. Wins at #21 LSU, #6 FSU, and #23 Arkansas in the SECCG propelled the Gators to their #2 ranking.
The Fun 'n Gun led by QB Wuerffel had most games won by halftime. His 178 pass rating was the best ever. The Gators averaged 360 yards passing and 4 TD per game. The running game was split by Jackson and Williams, both averaging over 6.4 ypc. Fred Taylor was 3rd string. Wuerffel threw to a pair of 1,000 yard WR in Hilliard and Doering - with 32 TDs among just those two.
The defense was strong vs the pass - allowing under 50% of passes to be completed. Safety Wright was a big-hitter and CB Weary a good cover CB. The run D wasn't great, but with Florida ahead so often, teams weren't able to expose it.
Special teams weren't a strength, despite good KR from Reidel Anthony. Florida hit only 50% of its FG and punting under 39 yards per.
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#3 Northwestern, 10-1, Big 10 Champions
46th in scoring offense
7th in scoring defense
5th in strength of schedule
The Cinderella story of them all, the Wildcats began the year unranked. A season-opening win at #9 ND changed that for a week, before they fell to Miami of Ohio at home. N'Western faced 3 more ranked foes the rest of the season, beating them all and winding up 8-0 in league play. Wins at #7 Michigan by 6, blowing out #24 Wisconsin, and beating #12 Penn State got the Wildcats to a #3 ranking.
N'Western's offense was...plain. Vanilla. Mediocre. But just good enough. QB Schnur didn't pass it very well, but got the ball into WR Bates' hands enough times on big plays. Workhorse RB Autry didn't sport great yards-per-carry numbers, but when the Wildcats needed a yard, he'd get two. In nearly 400 carries, he'd get nearly 1800 yards and 17 TDs as the focal point.
The defense wasn't exactly a shutdown unit, either, except for giving up points. The run defense was good/not grat, the pass defense wasn't anything to brag about, but LB Fitzgerald and crew would seem to step up in 3rd and short or pick off a key pass late to win games.
WR Musso was a great punt returner and K Sam Valenzisi only missed 1 FG all year before getting hurt, so a 50% kicker would play in the playoff.
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TIE
#4 Tennessee, 10-1
#4 Ohio State, 11-1
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#4 Tennessee
10th scoring offense
26th scoring defense
17th strength of schedule
The Vols played three ranked teams this year, losing at #4 Florida 62-37, but winning at #18 Arkansas by 18 and at #11 Alabama by 27. Oddly, the Vols closed out the regular season with very close wins over lowly Kentucky and Vanderbilt.
Tennessee boasts a prolific offense, capable of both running and passing the ball. QB Manning had a strong year, with 22 TD to only 4 INT. RB Graham had 1400+ yards and 12 TD. Manning's main threat was WR Kent, with over 1,000 yards receiving.
The defense was good, but not overwhelming vs the run or pass.
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#4 Ohio State
7th scoring offense
10th scoring defense
8th strength of schedule
The Buckeyes beat the first six ranked opponents they faced - #22 BC, #18 Washington, #15 ND, at #12 Penn State, at #21 Wisconsin, and #25 Iowa. Only one of those was by one score. But in the season finale, OSU lost to rival #18 Michigan in Ann Arbor.
This OSU offense could pass and run the ball well. QB Hoying had over 3200 yds and 29 TD with a great rating. Heisman-winner RB George carried the ball for 1900+ yards and 24 TD. WR Glenn's 1400 yards and 17 TD led all receiving threats. TE Dudley also caused matchup problems.
The defense picked off 24 passes and was strong overall. The rush defense, however, was the weakness of the team, allowing nearly 150 yards per game.
The special teams weren't especially strong, aside from the kick returning of CB Springs.
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So who would/should be the 4 seed? Would Nebraska drill either? Would N'Western keep pace with the Gators? Who wins it all???
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Yes, Nebraska would defeat a medley of Vols and Bucks.
I got to attend 10 of the 12 Nebraska games that season. It was quite a spectacle. I'd say the only stress during that regular season is when Mackovicka fumbled on the opening drive inside the Wazzu 20. Some guy with a long name then ripped off a long td run. The only moment that regular season when Nebraska trailed. Ryan Leaf made a special teams tackle I recall.
No team entered the 4th quarter within 20 points of Nebraska. Wazzu managed to get an onside and cut the final to 35 -21. Games were over at half. 2 first snap TDs. Several 28+ pt quarters. Absurd I-back depth. Zero sacks allowed. If I were to rank their worst overall game it was the 41-3 road win over top 10 Kansas. I believe they were 10-2 ATS.
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Same title game, same result. I think this is the first time I've said that.
As for #4, I think they would take Tennessee, better loss and whatnot . S&P+ prefers OSU by about 3 points over the Vols.
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I remember that OSU team as being really, really good, then blowing it against Michigan.
And they still weren't likely to beat Nebraska--though they might have pushed the Huskers a little for a couple of quarters.
Florida doesn't have much trouble with Northwestern, who were just happy to be there.
Nebraska unless something crazy happened (which often seems to, but probably not here).
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OSU over Northwestern in the game that never was.
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I would note that PR defense was also a strength, with 5 returns for 12 yards allowed on the season. That was an NCAA record for a while, but probably broken by Alabama since. (Nebraska had 552 PR yards for the season)
0 sacks allowed...on a whopping 228 attempts. :shrug:
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Nebraska destroys OSU
Florida destroys NU
Nebraska destroys Florida
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Jesse Kosch was the punter. He was a storm chaser and weather enthusiast. Jesse and his Dad, a DB in the early 70s, they have 5 mnc rings. I think he runs a Nebraska merch.store in Colorado now.
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The Tennessee/Ohio State argument is a fun one. Tennessee's loss was in September and OSU's was in the finale. OSU's loss was close, Tennessee got lambasted.
They played in the Citrus Bowl on a wet day, and UT beat OSU 20-14. But that didn't happen in this exercise. Would have been fun as a play-in game or something.
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Uh oh, another playoff idea.....the top 5 get in, technically, but 4 plays 5 as a play-in game, sort of like MLB. Makes the 4 over 1 upset even less likely.
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The Tennessee/Ohio State argument is a fun one. Tennessee's loss was in September and OSU's was in the finale. OSU's loss was close, Tennessee got lambasted.
They played in the Citrus Bowl on a wet day, and UT beat OSU 20-14. But that didn't happen in this exercise. Would have been fun as a play-in game or something.
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Uh oh, another playoff idea.....the top 5 get in, technically, but 4 plays 5 as a play-in game, sort of like MLB. Makes the 4 over 1 upset even less likely.
Does it?
Or does it help ensure that #1 is actually playing the better possible team. Say a year like this, where Oklahoma has the best resume argument, but perhaps Georgia or Ohio State was "better". It may lead to #1 having to face a better team, rather than a team with a better resume.
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Nebraska destroys OSU
Florida destroys NU
Nebraska destroys Florida
Probably this.
Although, probability-wise, if OSU is the 4th best team and if Florida really is the 2nd-best team, I doubt Nebraska curb-stomps both of them.
If Florida played N'Western, it would get ugly.
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If Biakabutuka went for 300+ vs OSU, what would the Huskers do?
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I need to correct myself from the '94 playoff post about Spurrier's pass protection. He was more stubborn than I realized - he didn't change it after the Nebraska debacle, and didn't even change it after losing @ FSU in '96 like I said before. I just re-watched the 1996 SECCG and despite gouging their defense for 45 points, Alabama had 5-6 instant sacks on Wuerffel. And I recalled a quote from LT Zach Pillar, specifying they change their pass pro more in the leadup to the rematch with FSU in the Sugar Bowl that year than in his 4 years previous.
So it took Nebaska's beatdown, FSU's limiting the offense and winning, and Alabama getting a half-dozen freebee sacks before he was willing to change things.
That, above the running up the score stuff or ruthless barb quotes, showed his arrogance.
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Does it?
Or does it help ensure that #1 is actually playing the better possible team. Say a year like this, where Oklahoma has the best resume argument, but perhaps Georgia or Ohio State was "better". It may lead to #1 having to face a better team, rather than a team with a better resume.
That "better" team just played an elimination game the week before. I'd rather be rested and have more recent game film on my opponent.
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That "better" team just played an elimination game the week before. I'd rather be rested and have more recent game film on my opponent.
You also never said when it would be. I don't think they are playing that game on Christmas. I assumed it would be the week after the CCG, so you still have 2 weeks in between.
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Someone didn't vote for UNL in 1995....????
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Tenn had a 2 score lead in that Florida game too . Then the sky crashed on them in the swamp.
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Someone didn't vote for UNL in 1995....????
They didn't fare to well once teams were required to earn it on the field instead of just whooping up on their little sisters.
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Tenn had a 2 score lead in that Florida game too . Then the sky crashed on them in the swamp.
Vols up 30-14 late in the 2nd quarter....then Florida goes on a 48-0 run. Bad ass.
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They didn't fare to well once teams were required to earn it on the field instead of just whooping up on their little sisters.
Yeah, your input is really valuable.
You'd be the only jackass not voting Rivera into the HOF.
Just because.
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Name-calling aside, why have a poll if there is only one right answer?
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1 - I didn't call you a name.
2 - contrarian - noun - a person who opposes or rejects popular opinion
JUST BECAUSE
you provided no rationale behind it
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Well at least I learned what my stance was on Geraldo getting into the HoF.
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They didn't fare to well once teams were required to earn it on the field instead of just whooping up on their little sisters.
....can anybody else make sense of this?
I wasn't AT the Fiesta Bowl, but I know alot of people who were and they're pretty sure that an actual football game took place on the field. But maybe not...?
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Vols up 30-14 late in the 2nd quarter....then Florida goes on a 48-0 run. Bad ass.
Was that the year of the rainstorm?
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....can anybody else make sense of this?
I wasn't AT the Fiesta Bowl, but I know alot of people who were and they're pretty sure that an actual football game took place on the field. But maybe not...?
oh.. I thought he was talking about OSU and the BIG10....
:::grabs popcorn:::
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Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar. Beating 4 top 10 teams 49-18 on avg. There's not much to discuss here.
Big 8 finished w 4 in top 10 and handled their bowl opp. I know this isn't considerate of bowl games but the Big 8 was no joke.
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1995 Nebraska was an All Time Great Team. We can't know who WOULD have won, but it's obvious who SHOULD have won.
This year is open and shut, even though 3-4 other teams were also very good and could have won in some other year.
I don't think there was as dominant a season at Nebraska had that year over the past 50 years.
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That UT v UF game was fascinating. Not often a season ends and the final #2 and #3 teams have allowed 62 points in a game.
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....can anybody else make sense of this?
I wasn't AT the Fiesta Bowl, but I know alot of people who were and they're pretty sure that an actual football game took place on the field. But maybe not...?
Oh. For this exercise voters are asked to ignore the Bowl games. Thus your data point is not relevant.
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Riiiiiight.
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Someone didn't vote for UNL in 1995....????
I smell Brutus
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***This is a fun, unique situation - a literal tie for 4th place. Who would have been included? Excluded? Would either put up a fight vs the Huskers?
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So who would/should be the 4 seed? Would Nebraska drill either? Would N'Western keep pace with the Gators? Who wins it all???
Tennessee should have been in over the Bucks - because John Cooper Neither would put up a fight vs the Huskers
Northwestern wouldn't keep pace with the Gators
Huskers win it all. Drilling both opponents.
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Jesse Kosch was the punter. He was a storm chaser and weather enthusiast. Jesse and his Dad, a DB in the early 70s, they have 5 mnc rings. I think he runs a Nebraska merch.store in Colorado now.
Kosch does own a Big RED store in Colorado. My brother stopped there and bought a shirt for me.
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The most overlooked aspect of that squad, IMO, was its near-perfect design from the philosophical POV. The synergy between the offensive and defensive schemes, and the personnel that executed them, was superb. The special teams ensured that, even if an opponent found some crease of success, they were almost always facing a long field…or Nebraska was facing a short one. Turnovers and penalties were few and far between, which did not provide opponents with much opportunity for cheap points, yardage or first downs.
That team applied pressure in every aspect of the game, and just didn’t let opponents breathe.
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Was that the year of the rainstorm?
Nope, that was the following year @ Knoxville. 35-0 Florida, with 9:00 remaining in the 2nd quarter, lol.
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Oh. For this exercise voters are asked to ignore the Bowl games. Thus your data point is not relevant.
...and so Florida was thought to be Nebraska's equal and you have them losing to Northwestern as well.
Contrarian - silly internet person going the opposite way for no damn reason. Blah blah, grrrrr, yawn. Rinse. Repeat.
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The most overlooked aspect of that squad, IMO, was its near-perfect design from the philosophical POV. The synergy between the offensive and defensive schemes, and the personnel that executed them, was superb. The special teams ensured that, even if an opponent found some crease of success, they were almost always facing a long field…or Nebraska was facing a short one. Turnovers and penalties were few and far between, which did not provide opponents with much opportunity for cheap points, yardage or first downs.
That team applied pressure in every aspect of the game, and just didn’t let opponents breathe.
That's all well and good, but you don't have to dig that deep. If you average 7 yards per carry for an entire season, you aren't going to lose.
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Someone didn't vote for UNL in 1995....????
apparently we did need this exercise
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oh.. I thought he was talking about OSU and the BIG10....
:::grabs popcorn:::
Dude,
It was Northwestern and the Big 10....
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If Biakabutuka went for 300+ vs OSU, what would the Huskers do?
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hah, if Frazier didn't win the Hypesman, it should have been the best back in the Big Ten, Timmy
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He was hurt that day, too. Some kind of leg injury. Pffft, go out and bust 300 yards out on the rival and ruin their season. No biggie.
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It wouldn't have been the Wolverines.
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...and so Florida was thought to be Nebraska's equal and you have them losing to Northwestern as well.
Contrarian - silly internet person going the opposite way for no damn reason. Blah blah, grrrrr, yawn. Rinse. Repeat.
Prove me wrong?
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That's all well and good, but you don't have to dig that deep. If you average 7 yards per carry for an entire season, you aren't going to lose.
The point was about dominance. The wnning part isnt an issue.
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Only after 1996 and 1993, this was Cooper's third most frustrating loss to Michigan*. 1996 was worse for two reasons:
- Given the RB win, a win over Michigan would have meant an NC in 1996 ahead of UF and FSU who each lost a game (to each other).
- The 1996 game was at home.
That said, this was just a difficult and painful loss that still bothers me. Ohio State was clearly a superior team. The Buckeyes and Wolverines played six common opponents that year and the Buckeyes did better both offensively and defensively against five of the six (the lone exception was a Minnesota team that both tOSU and M blew out).
That said, I think the 1995 Huskers were one of the best, if not the best cfb team of all time so I really wouldn't have mattered in terms of the NC either at the time or in this hypothetical exercise. If the Buckeyes had finished the regular season 12-0 they would have gone to the Citrus Bowl anyway because Northwestern had the "longest loser" tiebreaker in their favor. The 12-0 Buckeyes would have played Tennessee in the Citrus Bowl and even if they had won the Huskers would have won the NC anyway.
If the CFP had existed AND Ohio State had defeated Michigan then the Buckeyes would have been either #2 or #3. The only difference between #2 and #3 is what color jerseys the team wears. Either way it would have been tOSU/UF playing for the right to get slaughtered by #1 Nebraska.
For @OrangeAfroMan (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=58) 's benefit, I do think that part of the reason for Ohio State's loss to Tennessee was that the Buckeyes had a devastating loss to their rival in the last game before the bowl while Tennessee's devastating loss to their rival was much earlier.
The debate between Ohio State and Tennessee would have been interesting. Both lost on the road to their rival. Tennessee's loss was by 25 to #2 Florida while Ohio State's was by 8 to #14 Michigan. Those losses seem pretty equal but you can argue it either way. Ohio State's SoS was better with more wins over ranked teams and neither was a conference Champion.
Cooper's 10 losses to Michigan ranked by frustration level*:
- 13-9 at home in 1996: Cost the Buckeyes a NC and tOSU was a clearly superior team.
- 28-0 on the road in 1993: Probably cost the Buckeyes a NC and tOSU was a clearly superior team.
- 31-23 on the road in 1995: Ohio State was clearly a superior team.
- 38-26 at home in 2000: Two reasons. First, this was a winnable game. Michigan couldn't defend spread teams (gave up 54 to NU) and if the Buckeyes had spread them out they could have scored enough to win. That was apparent when Ohio State got way down (by playing conservative) then rallied once they went pass-happy (only because they HAD to), then the rally died when Ohio State got close enough that they didn't need to stay pass-happy for time purposes. Second, I can't remember the specifics but there was a point during the rally when Ohio State scored a TD and should have gone for two but didn't. I'll never forget the postgame presser. Cooper was asked about it and in that stupid-sounding Tennessee drawl of his he answered that "that was what the card said to do." That flat out infuriated me. If it had been a mistake made in the heat of the moment I would understand but it wasn't. The card was wrong. You make the card in your office on a slow day. How do you screw up the card? I don't know that Cooper could do simple math.
- 31-3 on the road in 1991: It wasn't the loss that is bothersome about this one so much as the margin. In Cooper's three previous games against the Wolverines the Buckeyes had been reasonably competitive with superior Michigan teams. In 1991 Michigan still had a superior team but they weren't 31-3 superior. The Buckeyes should have at least been competitive.
- 20-14 on the road in 1997: It was on the road and Michigan won a share of the NC. You can't really complain about losing on the road to a NC team, but it sure would have been nice to repay them for 1993 and 1996!
- 24-17 on the road in 1999: Michigan was a vastly better team and the loss was on the road by only a TD, can't really complain about that.
- 28-18 on the road in 1989: Michigan was clearly a superior team and it was on the road.
- 16-13 at home in 1990: Michigan was clearly a superior team. It would have been nice to upset them but it would have been a big upset.
- 34-31 at home in 1988: Cooper's first year and only lost by a FG to a vastly superior Michigan team. Losses always suck but you really can't complain about that.
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A question might be which team since 1970 would stand a good chance against 95 Huskers.
If there was a team with a very very good ground game that played lights out defense, mebbe.
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Beating the rest of Team Husker to it...1971 Nebraska. ;)
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That could describe every good Alabama team, ever.
I'll take a look at it when I get home, but I believe Nebraska has benefitted from playing good teams with great PASS defenses in the years they won the NC.
Off the top of my head, a team like '99 VA Tech would have a good shot. Vick would have been hell for those blitzing LBs to corral. They ran the ball a ton. They were 1st in total O and D that year. Stellar run D. They lost to FSU because they weren't as talented overall and the Noles had Peter Warrick. I don't think '95 Nebraska was oozing with talent as much as system, coaching, and 'roids. VT's defense was more quick than big, so they wouldn't try to man up with UNL's OL in vain.
I'll look at it more later.
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http://www.espn.com/page2/s/list/colfootball/teams/best.html
FWIW, 1971 Huskers at the top followed by 1972 USC and 1995 UNL.
Two teams from 1947 made the top ten.
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Still befuddles me how a 3-8 Wazzu was able to keep the final score respectable against arguably the most dominant team in CFB history. The 'skers should have been able to name their score but took it easy on the Coogs.
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My GUESS is if you put that 1995 Nebraska team on the field with this year's Clemson team, Clemson would win handily.
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Still befuddles me how a 3-8 Wazzu was able to keep the final score respectable against arguably the most dominant team in CFB history. The 'skers should have been able to name their score but took it easy on the Coogs.
Lost a couple fumbles in scoring position that day. Frazier was a little banged up, missed some of the game...bursitis in the throwing elbow iirc.
Wazzu had a pretty good defensive front...one of the better teams in the country against the run in 1994. They came to play (I was there) but NU ran all over them. Not the best day, but still won by 2 TDs and had the ball at the end.
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My GUESS is if you put that 1995 Nebraska team on the field with this year's Clemson team, Clemson would win handily.
Maybe. Clemson was spooky-good.
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this year's Bama team was as good as Clemson
I think if they payed 10 times they would go 4-6, 5-5, or 6-4
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Beating the rest of Team Husker to it...1971 Nebraska. ;)
Huskers 83 offense with the 84 defense
the 94 Husker team would have hung tough with the 95 team
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I rewatched the OSU-UGA bowl game from the mid 1990s. The announcers commented on how HUGE the OSU OL was, averaging over 260 pounds. I think the Dawgs were around 245.
My GUESS is the weights of the OL and DL for Clemson would be 30-40 pounds heavier than that of Nebraska in 1995. And they might well be just as fast and stronger. The Game has changed in 25 years, a lot. I'd bet the LBs and safeties would be 10-20 pounds heavier also.
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The Nebraska OL was heavier than I expected, closer to averaging perhaps 290.
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95 Husker roster shows one 300 lb OT
bunch of trench ponies on each side in the 285-295 range, but I'm certain the Clemson and Bama lines are well over 300lbs
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I think the Dawgs' OL averaged 325 or so this past year, but Pittman likes the heavies.
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My GUESS is if you put that 1995 Nebraska team on the field with this year's Clemson team, Clemson would win handily.
I agree, but.....
95 Huskers would have stuck with the run and not thrown 2 picks like Tua.
18 Tigers defense may have had some trouble with the Husker offense - it was executed at a high level and since it's quite different than 2018 offenses
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My thinking is that athleticism overall at every position has improved over 25 years with better nutrition, strength development, and programs they experience before they get to college.
I can recall freshman teams because kids coming out of HS were not remotely ready to play CFB (this is of course 1970ish). Usually, a player sat as a sophomore and then perhaps played some as a junior and so on, even the good ones. A sophomore starting in 1970 was a definite rarity, at least as I recollect.
Now we see freshman arriving at major programs and starting at QB for four years (unless they leave early).
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In February of 1991, Nebraska announced it would discontinue its freshman-junior varsity program, in anticipation of an NCAA reduction in the number of allowable football assistants, a cost-cutting measure that went into effect for the 1992 season. Soon after, the Big Eight Conference passed a rule prohibiting freshman-junior varsity teams, also to cut costs.
Nebraska would play one more junior varsity game in 1993, against the Air Force Academy. Tom Osborne scheduled the game as a favor to Air Force coach Fisher DeBerry.
It was played on a Friday afternoon in early October at Memorial Stadium, in front of an audience estimated at just over 500. Many Husker fans were on the road home from Stillwater, Okla., where, on Thursday night, Nebraska had defeated Oklahoma State 27-13, Osborne’s 200th victory.
Husker grad assistants Gerry Gdowski and Bill Busch coached the team, Gdowski the offense, Busch the defense. The players practiced only once together in preparation.
Redshirted freshman quarterback Matt Turman, a 5-foot-10, 165-pound walk-on from Wahoo, Neb., who had yet to earn the nickname “the Turmanator,” directed the 49-20 victory, completing 9-of-11 passes for 182 yards and three touchdowns. He also rushed for 73 yards.
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My GUESS is the weights of the OL and DL for Clemson would be 30-40 pounds heavier than that of Nebraska in 1995. And they might well be just as fast and stronger. The Game has changed in 25 years, a lot. I'd bet the LBs and safeties would be 10-20 pounds heavier also.
Not to mention the 1995 Huskers are in their mid 40s now.
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back in 95 the Huskers could have named their score, cause the Clemson kids weren't born yet
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Ha ha ha. It reminds me of the reporter who asked Ty Cobb how his batting average would be against modern pitching. Cobb responded "about .290".
The report commented that it seemed low and Cobb said "Well, of course I'm 75 now.".
Ba dum.
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Okay, hold on, let's take a quick timeout on this Clemson stuff.
Wuerffel > Lawrence
Etienne > Jackson/Williams, but not by as much as you'd think
Hilliard/Anthony both 1st round picks > Clemson's WRs
Florida OL was actually VERY good, it was the scheme that was the problem
So Clemson's real advantage would have been modern pass-blocking schemes.
The Clemson defense was better than '95 Florida's, but barely. The run D was better, but the pass D's were about even.
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'95 Florida gets dismissed because of that Fiesta Bowl, but going into the game, it was a toss-up. Florida's regular season was better in '95 than the NC team's '96 was.
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Agree. UF was worthy of its tout, and of course navigated way back to the title the next season.
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Okay, I've got the best teams of each season back to '71 sorted out by run and pass D. I'll take the strongest run defenses and see how their offenses were, preferably run-based, to find some worth adversaries for '95 Nebraska.
2016 Alabama - Hurts-led Tide team had an epic run defense. Hurts wasn't a great passer, but the offense ran it a ton - all 3 main RBs averaging 6.5 ypc or better (Harris, Scarborough, Jacobs). They had very balanced receiving threats, with 2 WRs getting equal yards and a real threat at TE. This team lost to Clemson and Watson in the NCG on that rub play.
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2006 Michigan - an even better run D than '16 Bama's, but the offense concerns me. Henne wasn't really a go-out-and-win-it type of QB, although he did have 3 legit threats catching the ball (Arrington, Breaston, Manningham). I guess I just don't see Mike Hart gutting out those tough yards vs '95 Nebraska.
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2003 USC - an offense A LOT like Florida's, so it might not be the best choice. Way better defense, though, especially vs the run. Leinart throwing to two 1,000 yard WRs (Williams, Colbert) and a RB-by-committee. This was before Bush getting a lot of carries. But again, as long as they didn't have a stubborn, simple blocking scheme to take advantage of, they'd be a worthy opponent for the Huskers.
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2002 Kansas St - fits the statistical cutoffs, but probably lacked the overall team talent to realistically pull it off. But you never know, a legit overall defense + Darren Sproles....stranger things may have happened.
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1996/1997 FSU - both of these squads were one win vs Florida away from a NC. Neither gave up any rushing yards (~53 per game), but were limited by QB play. The '96 version had a worse Busby at QB, but Warrick Dunn might've been able to give '95 Nebraska fits. The '97 version didn't have Dunn, but a better Busby, and Peter Warrick, not Tommie Frazier, might've been the best player on the field. Overall talent-wise, these FSU teams were stacked everywhere. They might have passed the ball too much for their own good, though.
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1991 Washington - just an all-around great team that also stuffed the run. Could pass and run on offense. Had studs at all 3 levels on the defense. Wouldn't have been intimidated or out-manned.
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1989 Miami - super run-stuffing defense, but vs the pass as well. Strength of the team was the DL, which would cause problems for Nebraska. This team is A LOT like '97 FSU in that it's full of talent everywhere, but the QB play was very average. RB by committee, plenty of great pass targets, but too many INTs thrown. I'd give this team the best chance at stacking up the Frazier/Phillips/Green run game, though. I could see these Canes kicking a lot of field goals and having a close, ugly game go to the wire.
That's all I got, from a statistical POV. Personally, I wish I could see the '95 Huskers play the '93 Arizona Wildcats' desert storm defense. UNL would win because U of A wouldn't cross the 50 on offense, but that quirky defense that shut the earth down running the ball would have been like football porn.
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Agree. UF was worthy of its tout, and of course navigated way back to the title the next season.
This is one reason I'm being a stickler on the "ignore the bowl outcomes" thing for these threads. These 12-0 world-beater teams happened to lose in the last game of the season, and that's what sticks in our minds. '95 Florida, '06 Ohio State, etc. were legit and should be in better standing than our memories give them credit for. These are teams that got blown out, but in all honestly, if the game were played again in a parallel universe, they probably don't get blown out.
1995 Florida
2006 Ohio State
2018 Alabama
2012 ND (not really...I put them in with '93 WV or '09 Cincinnati to be honest)
1999 Virginia Tech
2004 Oklahoma
2011 LSU
2009 Texas (just bad luck, really)
1988 WV (same bad luck)
1992 Miami
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Okay, hold on, let's take a quick timeout on this Clemson stuff.
Wuerffel > Lawrence
Etienne > Jackson/Williams, but not by as much as you'd think
Hilliard/Anthony both 1st round picks > Clemson's WRs
Florida OL was actually VERY good, it was the scheme that was the problem
So Clemson's real advantage would have been modern pass-blocking schemes.
The Clemson defense was better than '95 Florida's, but barely. The run D was better, but the pass D's were about even.
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'95 Florida gets dismissed because of that Fiesta Bowl, but going into the game, it was a toss-up. Florida's regular season was better in '95 than the NC team's '96 was.
A few things. Anthony was the No 4 we that year. It was Doering, Hilliard, Green. I also think you’re understating the quality of Lawrence and his WRs. I might take the Clemson WRs, and Lawrence is clearly a better pure thrower, granted he’s less in tune with the offense/CFB.
But the main difference is a more refined offense. It’s been a while since I watched the film, but the quick screen game wasn’t so advanced back then. Neb just blitzed and blitzed, and the deep drop offense gave up a lot.
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Okay, I've got the best teams of each season back to '71 sorted out by run and pass D. I'll take the strongest run defenses and see how their offenses were, preferably run-based, to find some worth adversaries for '95 Nebraska.
2016 Alabama
2006 Michigan
2003 USC
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2002 Kansas St
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1996/1997 FSU -
1991 Washington -
1989 Miami -
That's all I got, from a statistical POV. Personally, I wish I could see the '95 Huskers play the '93 Arizona Wildcats' desert storm defense. UNL would win because U of A wouldn't cross the 50 on offense, but that quirky defense that shut the earth down running the ball would have been like football porn.
I'd like to see the 95 Skers go against all these teams. The players and coaches would have also loved the challenge.
the list of teams undoubtedly had great run defenses, but they didn't play many teams that avg 400 yards on the ground
Spurrier's gators had a great team and a solid defense. They were simply outcoached and could not stand up physically.
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I'm not pushing 2018 Clemson so much as pushing any championship team 25 years later than the earlier team.
My GUESS is the level of play has simply improved over that period by a lot, coupled with better nutrition, strength training, coaching, and better experience at the HS and earlier levels.
I might be wrong obviously, and perhaps 25 years isn't long enough to make a difference. My thought is the players on both sides of the ball today are heavier, faster, and better than they were 25 years ago.
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A few things. Anthony was the No 4 we that year. It was Doering, Hilliard, Green.
I know that, but I was appealing to everyone's sense of talent level. It seems to be all anyone cares about here, as evidenced by your next point about Lawrence...
I also think you’re understating the quality of Lawrence and his WRs. I might take the Clemson WRs, and Lawrence is clearly a better pure thrower, granted he’s less in tune with the offense/CFB.
"Better pure thrower"...I'll never concede this point, ever. Manning was a better pure thrower than Wuerffel, but what does it matter if he didn't play better? Arm talent is irrelevant if it doesn't yield better production. Wuerffel's 1995 season yielded a high-volume, most efficient passing season EVER, up to that point.
But the main difference is a more refined offense. It’s been a while since I watched the film, but the quick screen game wasn’t so advanced back then. Neb just blitzed and blitzed, and the deep drop offense gave up a lot.
This is true, but Florida had plenty of 3-step drops, but if the first guy isn't open on those, you're toast if there's an unblocked rusher.
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I'm not pushing 2018 Clemson so much as pushing any championship team 25 years later than the earlier team.
My GUESS is the level of play has simply improved over that period by a lot, coupled with better nutrition, strength training, coaching, and better experience at the HS and earlier levels.
I might be wrong obviously, and perhaps 25 years isn't long enough to make a difference. My thought is the players on both sides of the ball today are heavier, faster, and better than they were 25 years ago.
Yes, there'a timeline adjustment to all sports, even the less physical ones, like baseball. The men's 100m dash time will always progress to a quicker time, etc. But since we don't know the rate of that adjustment, aren't we really to just compare teams to their peers? Or take each team and have them meet in the middle, timeline-wise?
1995 Nebraska vs 2018 Clemson in 2007, something like that?
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I'd like to see the 95 Skers go against all these teams. The players and coaches would have also loved the challenge.
the list of teams undoubtedly had great run defenses, but they didn't play many teams that avg 400 yards on the ground
Yeah, but who did?
Spurrier's gators had a great team and a solid defense. They were simply outcoached and could not stand up physically.
I don't deem it a physicality issue if defenders are running free.
Defensively, Florida wasn't strong against the run, statistically, AND was almost always way ahead, so teams weren't running the ball to win on them.
And physically, to be frank and maybe a little conspiracy theorist, does anybody think the blood work from those Husker OL and DL players would come back clean that night?
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And physically, to be frank and maybe a little conspiracy theorist, does anybody think the blood work from those Husker OL and DL players would come back clean that night?
Weak sauce.
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I don't deem it a physicality issue if defenders are running free.
Defensively, Florida wasn't strong against the run, statistically, AND was almost always way ahead, so teams weren't running the ball to win on them.
And physically, to be frank and maybe a little conspiracy theorist, does anybody think the blood work from those Husker OL and DL players would come back clean that night?
the 400 yards per game? that's my point the teams with great run defense stats might slow them down, maybe not
the biggest mismatch of physicality was the Husker offense running thru the gator defense
as far as roids and cheating.......... it was Spurrier and the SEC. If they weren't cheating, shame on them.
besides, creatine is a legal substance
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lol @ creatine
I was thinking more along the lines of farm animal stuff - the kind of crap the West Germans were always doing. But I'm probably wrong.
The veil over the mid-90s Huskers mimics the "how were we supposed to know?" of MLB juicers in the McGwire/Sosa season where all-time records went to die.
I'm sure it was just farmer strength and dedication and Saint Dr. Tom and all that. You're right.
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the Nebraskans know a few things about growing bigger and faster and stronger farm animals
not much support for all organic food back in the 90s
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Sometimes getting your ass whooped doesn't mean the other fella is doing anything wrong...he's just doing everything alot better than you. This was like that.
Tim Tebow's physique OTOH....more of a West German tinge.
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steroids.... LMAO. Thank you. I needed that after this week.
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Sometimes getting your ass whooped doesn't mean the other fella is doing anything wrong...he's just doing everything alot better than you. This was like that.
Tim Tebow's physique OTOH....more of a West German tinge.
You're right, no one whispered about it. No smoke. No fire. Just a bitter old fan here.....:67:
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so the roids peaked in 95
didn't work in 92, 93 or 96 or 98
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Well we could joke around or have a real conversation. You left out '94.
Maybe it's just sour grapes. Sure. Could be.
But if, IF, steroids were a thing on a team for a time...
you'd have coaches either clueless or turning their backs or endorsing them
you'd have some players hesitant and dip their toe in, some avoid them, and others dive in and have a program and feel like they need them (think that LB in "The Program")
you'd have team leaders one year that weren't about it, and team leaders other years that questioned your love of the team if you didn't partake
All of those are the strains of possibilities if steroids were a thing. There'd be an ebb and flow. Maybe it did peak in '94 and '95, maybe not. Maybe there's a reason Warren Sapp was gasping for air in the 4th quarter and Zack Wiegert wasn't.
But if it's silly to suggest steroids were a thing without solid evidence, it'd be just as silly to suggest those linemen had clean piss. Would you bet a dollar on it? $10,000?
But I'm probably wrong. And it's not just a UNL OL thing. Tony Mandarich. Steve Emtman. Genetic freaks who were dedicated enough to take in chemicals which enabled them to be even more dedicated. What I hate about the steroids discussion is the immediate dark cloud that hangs over it. With this, with Bonds, with whoever. Hey, if you love your team and you're dying to be the best you can be for your team and your body only allows you to work out 3 hours per day, but you find something that allows you to workout 5 hours per day, for your team, for you to contribute, and you do it...are you bad? Wrong? If a shot in your butt lets 4th quarters feel like 1st quarters or game 150 feel like game 15 and your success helps your team...your dedication almost compels you to do it.
So I'm not calling into question anyone's determination or dedication or loyalty here. No one's work ethic is up in the air.
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OAM, for reasons I don't understand, I can't quote your quote of my post. Sufficed to say, that's fair.
I'm probably projecting a little too much with Ross, Higgins and Lawrence. Granted, they're all good as hell. I still think the more modern offense would cause some issues with that base 4-3, but as you said, UF was more modern than most at the time, and Neb did its damage just the same.
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after a quick search my memory was refreshed that the NCAA and the NFL banned roids around 1987
I know Husker players were roiding heavily in the early 80s when I was in school. My feeling is that once roids were banned by the NCAA the athletes at UNL cut WAY down. Just my feeling, but I suppose there were those that thought they could beat the drug test or thought the risk was worth it, but with the Husker's success of the renowned strength & conditioning program there was a huge bullseye on the program. I'm sure they were tested as much as any program and Osborne certainly didn't want a slew of failed tests and a black eye,
the other thing that came up in the quick search is that roid/PED use is still very active today.
One interesting story is about a Florida QB, not a lineman.
https://sports.vice.com/en_us/article/78y5zx/college-football-is-probably-juiced-but-does-anyone-really-care (https://sports.vice.com/en_us/article/78y5zx/college-football-is-probably-juiced-but-does-anyone-really-care)
It was one those cute bloggy space-fillers we tend to skim and then forget about altogether, passed along from one site to the next with a series of jokes about peanut-butter sandwiches and the freshman 15: a University of Florida quarterback named Will Grier had bulked up from 172 pounds to 215 pounds in the course of the offseason. Only in retrospect did it become suspicious; only after Grier tested positive for some sort of banned substance this week, precipitating a one-year suspension, did we all look back and wonder what the hell had just happened.
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as for the mid-90s Husker teams....... I'm certain they were pushing the boundaries of legal PEDs. Using everything and anything that was NOT banned
not sure about illegal roids, but obviously it's very possible Christian Peter was using something illegal. We may never know. Or perhaps Christian has since fessed up, but I just don't remember it from his interviews.
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I have been going to a fantasy baseball camp for a few years (missed last year for a family emergency thing). The 'roid discussion often comes up.
The pros there are folks like Sid Bream, Steve Avery, Marvin Freeman, and some special guests like Andruw Jones this year and Dale Murphy a couple years back. None of them say they partook, and they all said one of the main advantages was healing faster. A discussion this year was about how wearing a 162 game season was on even young bodies. I was surprised to hear them say that by May they were all dinged up, bruised, sore, the starting pitchers less so.
The "cream" or whatever would enable some to heal up faster, aside from any strength building aspect.
The players at the camp range from 25 to 74, I was second oldest at mid60s, and after 3 days of playing, we were nearly all limping or bruised or whatever, after 3 days. Some of these guys appear to have been in good shape otherwise, one of the guys on our team was a 43 year old who played in the NFL (WR) for quite a few years (nice guy). He was banged up too, on our team and two lockers down from me so we chatted quite a bit. He said he had stayed in good shape but was really feeling it after 2-3 days.
I trained pretty hard this year and was barely able to run by Day 5, but I'm at an age where recovery is going to be slow, and I had a slight pull in a quad on Day 2 I was trying to save. I'm still a bit sore 2 weeks later.
In football of course, the bodily damage is going to be greater, and the desire to build effective muscularity greater still. UGA has been running a two back system for several years now and the comments by the running backs tell me they appreciate that even if it means they don't put up gaudy numbers. Of course it helps when you take out a Chubb and put in a Michel.
I know these guys are 20 and in incredible shape, but the pounding they take is incredible also.
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the dudes in the 60s and 70s were some tough hard nosed players
and the earlier guys played both ways
w/o modern medicine and procedures
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Well we could joke around or have a real conversation.
A real conversation would require evidence, of which you have none..besides the degree of ass-whooping your team took.
This is a good point to stop digging the hole you're in and just go with the "I'm probably wrong/sour grapes" approach.
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as for the mid-90s Husker teams....... I'm certain they were pushing the boundaries of legal PEDs. Using everything and anything that was NOT banned
not sure about illegal roids, but obviously it's very possible Christian Peter was using something illegal. We may never know. Or perhaps Christian has since fessed up, but I just don't remember it from his interviews.
They were the spiritual fathers of 2018 Clemson
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Players in each era were tough kids. Imagine playing with no face guard.
My story is about Georgia facing Nebraska in the 1969 Sun Bowl, I think it was. Nebraska lost late in the year and had a national championship caliber team fall to a minor bowl. Dooley commented that he got an object lesson in the need for organized weight training. Before that, weight lifting was a kind of casual voluntary thing at UGA.
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I'm probably projecting a little too much with Ross, Higgins and Lawrence. Granted, they're all good as hell. I still think the more modern offense would cause some issues with that base 4-3, but as you said, UF was more modern than most at the time, and Neb did its damage just the same.
This is one of those situations where personnel comes into play. Nebraska ran a 43 with a WILL, MIKE and SAM backer, but the OLBs were more like SSs so we had six defenders on the field with Man-coverage skills. The MIKE backer typically didn't draw coverage responsibilities; he was an A gap filler or Robber. Everybody else in the backfield would man-up in some coverage scheme, although the FS spent the majority of his snaps playing centerfield in C1 and its variations.
We had some bigger fellas to bring in at OLB for short yardage scenarios, but over time we just kept the more athletic Base dudes in for most every scenario.
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A real conversation would require evidence, of which you have none..besides the degree of ass-whooping your team took.
This is a good point to stop digging the hole you're in and just go with the "I'm probably wrong/sour grapes" approach.
You're getting snippy. It's 24 years later. Chill.
I'll ask again - would you bet $1 or $10,000 the UNL linemen would pass an independent drug test that night?
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Players in each era were tough kids. Imagine playing with no face guard.
My story is about Georgia facing Nebraska in the 1969 Sun Bowl, I think it was. Nebraska lost late in the year and had a national championship caliber team fall to a minor bowl. Dooley commented that he got an object lesson in the need for organized weight training. Before that, weight lifting was a kind of casual voluntary thing at UGA.
Right, and steroids aren't a replacement for weight training, then enable you to do more of it.
It's funny, I think the masses treat roids as a replacement to hard work - a short cut. Except they're the opposite of that - they let you go hard, beyond your natural ability. But you have to be willing to put in the work.
Yet whenever they're brought up, the accused get pissy and offended.
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I wouldn't bet $1,000 in 1995 or 2018 that any lineman at any big time football program would pass a drug test that was ahead of the curve, that they didn't know was coming.
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Good point ELA friend of mine's son played H.S. & some small college ball before knee problems.He was gym rat and they all were heavy on supplements from which I gathered at the time were the building blocks for PEDs.This kid wasn't a drug user either and was put together real good.
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With the contact in football today generated by the momentum of very fast, very heavy players, I don't see how many skill players survive long.
A linebacker in say 1970 in college average what, maybe 220? 215? 200?
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200
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You're getting snippy. It's 24 years later. Chill.
:::Yawn:::
24 years have passed and the '95 Huskers are still churning out rushing yards inside your head. I know it was a bad experience, but jeez man, its happens to all of us eventually. Might be time to explore therapy, and move on with your life.
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I find it interesting that the 1995 question is clear cut, for me anyway, while the 1996 question is anything but.
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:::Yawn:::
24 years have passed and the '95 Huskers are still churning out rushing yards inside your head. I know it was a bad experience, but jeez man, its happens to all of us eventually. Might be time to explore therapy, and move on with your life.
This is me waiting for you to grow up.
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I wouldn't bet $1,000 in 1995 or 2018 that any lineman at any big time football program would pass a drug test that was ahead of the curve, that they didn't know was coming.
this... It's a silly point and doesn't add to the debate.
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This is me waiting for you to grow up.
Says the guy unable to to handle the emotional damage of a football game from 1995. :72:
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this... It's a silly point and doesn't add to the debate.
...because its not a point of debate. Its a coping mechanism.
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I wouldn't bet $1,000 in 1995 or 2018 that any lineman at any big time football program would pass a drug test that was ahead of the curve, that they didn't know was coming.
Thank you - this, I buy.
You could say mid-90s Nebraska were the Bonds/Clemens of that era - they happened to be the best ones doing it. That's believable. But it took ELA and took this long to go there.
Hoss, you might have a point, except that Florida won it all the very next year. So it's irrelevant. We got ours. You're looking like a troll.