CFB51 College Football Fan Community
The Power Five => Big Ten => Topic started by: ELA on December 02, 2018, 03:34:07 PM
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Because nobody has UM-UF fatigue.
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Ick. Though maybe (maaaaaybe) LSU got it worse. I wanted to play UCF even less. Too bad that LSU-Michigan was impossible. Also too bad that we can't put all non-playoff NY6 games on NYD (and remove all non-NYG games from NYD).
That day doesn't have prestige anymore, but it was nice when it did and feels so easy to return it.
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Disgraceful that college football has ceded NYD to the NHL and other events. This is an area where having a commissioner would be useful.
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Ick. Though maybe (maaaaaybe) LSU got it worse. I wanted to play UCF even less. Too bad that LSU-Michigan was impossible. Also too bad that we can't put all non-playoff NY6 games on NYD (and remove all non-NYG games from NYD).
That day doesn't have prestige anymore, but it was nice when it did and feels so easy to return it.
Citrus and Outback have been there forever, so that's fine. I agree that in years the CFP is off NYD, all four other NY6 games should be on there. It's close this year, just move the Peach and we are done.
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Can Florida avenge last year's loss to the Maize and Blue?
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Can Florida avenge last year's loss to the Maize and Blue?
They have four consecutive losses to avenge. An Outback Bowl ('03), two Citrus Bowls ('08 and '16), plus last year. Hence the matchup fatigue.
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Can Florida avenge last year's loss to the Maize and Blue?
You mean avenge the all-time series? 2003 (Zook), 2008 (Meyer), 2016 (McE), 2017 (McE). We've seen this one a lot. Michigan's 4-0. Neither side wants to play again before 2030.
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They have four consecutive losses to avenge. An Outback Bowl ('03), two Citrus Bowls ('08 and '16), plus last year. Hence the matchup fatigue.
Yeah. It's almost to the point that I'd have preferred UCF. Instead, we get the third of these in four years.
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Yuck. I think Michigan has played Florida in recent years more often than some Big Tem teams.
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Yuck. I think Michigan has played Florida in recent years more often than some Big Tem teams.
More than Minnesota, Iowa and Wisconsin? Yeah, maybe.
(https://mgoblog.com/sites/default/files/users/user995/jimdelanymasturbator_large.jpg)
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Once it was clear that the Rose Bowl wasn't going to happen, I was really hoping for LSU, since them and Clemson are the last top programs Michigan has never faced. Michigan has obviously played and beaten Florida more than any other major program outside the BigTen and Notre Dame over the past 15-20 years.
As for the matchup itself, I like Michigan's chances if they're motivated. Franks didn't do well against Michigan's defense a year ago, and while he's improved since then, he hasn't had good games against any good defenses. Similarly, it looks like their RBs are decent but not great.
Similar to Michigan's defense, their own defense hasn't faced many good offenses this year, and they struggled against the best ones (Missouri, Georgia.... even Kentucky, Vanderbilt, and South Carolina). Hopefully, Michigan will finally open up the offense in this game like they did 3 years ago in a blowout win.
I can see this being a blowout win or a close loss, but based on what I know I think something like a 33-23 win is a reasonable prediction.
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I think Michigan will be ready on both sides, and definitely on defense.
People are suddenly starting to doubt Don Brown. And I think that's the wrong response to last week's beat down. He's still finishing with three Top 5 overall defenses in three years, after all.
My explanation for last week?
He's historically a great in-game adapter. Very consistently gifted at that. What 2017 PSU and 2018 OSU taught us though is that he's human and his knack for these adaptations have limits. (And in one sense, I think these limitations in those two games might come down to pride or overconfidence.) That when his base defense needs nuanced tweaks to squash an opponent, he's as good as any DC in the country at finding/timing those in real-time. BUT if he enters a game faaaaaaar miscalculating the weaknesses of his defense and needs to entirely revamp his front or coverage (switching from all-man to all-zone is particularly extreme case for Don) to win, he's too overcome with shock to make those changes in time.
I guess that makes him the ideal DC to have in the offseason and still perhaps the nation's best in *allllmost* every game, but in 0-1 games per year, that ego gets to him.
Well at least I'm calling it ego. And happy to forgive him for that if I'm right. I could be wrong. It could just be boilerplate shock. And I'll forgive him for that too. If you've proven you're the nation's runaway #1 defense through 11 games, it's reasonable to expect you can run your business without revamping who you are before the next game.
Having said that, Rutgers in Game 10 was the first offense to sort of consistently test this defense. They did it with crossing routes. Mixed with Michigan not getting a sack. IU in Game 11 took it slightly further with the same poor pressure from M. But neither were objectively bad games on D for Michigan. They just weren't the sub-200-total-yard smashings we'd been treated to prior. Fans explained it away citing injuries and looking ahead to OSU. We even mentioned that we'd played some QBs on off days and should maybe dial back expectations by 20% anyway. That was all reasonable but only educated guesses. And it seems Don Brown treated them with the same probability as fans.
And in the OSU game when the DL couldn't get pressure (even when they NEEDED to) and Michigan's man coverage proved Watson's great season was built on smarts not speed, Don got caught flat-footed. But whereas fans could afford the shock, he couldn't. Should have changed the front into something blitz heavy early. Should have switched to zone by drive #2 or 3.
But again, those are seismic changes for the runaway #1 national defense through 11 games. I'll forgive him for messing it up. But he did. And that's his limitation. He can build a great defense and tweak it masterfully in-game. But when asked to break it all down and start over to stop the bleeding, he can't try.
It's not the worst weakness in the world. And his strengths helped him masterfully outscheme OSU in 2016 and (maybe) win a closer chess match in 2017. But 2017 PSU and 2018 OSU are the real painful consequences when that one weakness comes out.
As for UF:
If I'm right, then they're double-doomed. For one, now Don Brown knows this weakness way in advance. For two, their offense is nothing like 2017 PSU or 2018 OSU.
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so, the gators are Michigan's bitch!
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Disgraceful that college football has ceded NYD to the NHL and other events. This is an area where having a commissioner would be useful.
(https://mgoblog.com/sites/default/files/users/user995/jimdelanymasturbator_large.jpg)
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On offense?
I think Michigan is still rising on this side of the ball. The difference between 2017 and 2018 remains a massive improvement. That we're now a Top 25 S&P+ defense is hard to believe. And it's happened where it had to. At OL, WR and QB. You can thank Warriner, McElwain and Patterson for that.
Especially at OL, despite the gains, there's still room to grow. And I bet they leap again under Warinner with these practices.
My main question for this Another Florida game (and for the future since they return almost everyone on offense) is about identity and stubbornness.
My theory is that, when Harbaugh arrived, we passed (and did so creatively) out of necessity despite that not being the long term plan, and eventually the coaches picked to favor the long term "Push Their Face In" plan.
Of course, we all prefer the old plan. Because it seemed more well suited to punching above one's weight class. And that (Michigan's offense is not in the Heavyweight class) is essential in big games.
Never was this more obvious than versus OSU this year. That defense's back half is very flawed and TCU, UNL, Indiana, Purdue, and UMd all put as much on film. But Harbaugh clearly planned to win with identity rather than by exploiting any of those flaws. So we forced it against the strength of their defense.
We scored plenty. Enough that you'd predict (with a normal D showing) we'd have won in Columbus. But it was still weak, underwhelming. Because had Harbaugh chose to ignore his offense's identity and instead match up versus OSU's weaknesses, Michigan had enough talent and OSU enough holes for another 3 TDs. But M never tested that idea. The approach wasn't to even try those pressure points.
Of course - With that showing from Don Brown, it'd have likely still come in a loss. But one closer to that 59-56 travesty of a game between OU/WVU.
What does this mean against Florida? I honestly don't know their defense enough to have a worthwhile opinion. But I don't expect Michigan to exceed 40 as they did after 2015, with the creative passing attack.
What does it mean for the future? That it's time for Harbaugh to stop play calling if he won't embrace more of his 2015-offense. If that is in the works, we'll know because Peo Hamilton will move on.
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Gary not playing
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More than Minnesota, Iowa and Wisconsin? Yeah, maybe.
Probably not more than Wisconsin, seeing as they are your fixed crossover for this six-year cycle.
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Probably not more than Wisconsin, seeing as they are your fixed crossover for this six-year cycle.
It was an embellishment, but being precise about it is also crazy:
After this one, Michigan will have played UF 4 times since 2008 and UW only 6.
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Gary not playing
I still haven't come to terms with this.
The brains of the matter is that this is a violent game and participating in any non-CFP bowl is probably a terrible decision for a rising draft choice. We all saw that happen to Jake Butt. Tragic. And yet the heart of the matter is that being on a team involves (not on paper but in spirit) a full commitment season by season. And this fails that.
In other words, I'm on his side, don't blame him but also don't like it.
Then again, I wrote that for a generic case. This one, I might feel even more on his side, since he's been playing all year with that serious shoulder injury.
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Michigan should win easily.
But you never know how the NFLers-to-be will play. Gary is even sitting it out? Hmmph.
I'm not exactly pumped about this.
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Between bowl selection and merit venturing ever farther apart aside the NY6, guys sitting out, and the new redshirting rule meaning we will see a bunch of random freshmen, it's getting harder and harder to care.
I used to love bowl games, and always defended them, but it's getting harder. The freshman rule is good...for your team. If MSU gives true freshman QB Theo Day a series, I'll be interested. If Oregon throws a freshman QB in there, I'll care as much as a Lions preseason game.
Confidence pools used to help hold interest, but it's hard to pick games when you don't know who is playing anymore, or now, how the coaches will play it. Will they play to win, or play to get some freshmen some experience going into next year
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Gary not playing
Shocking. Not.
Don’t know if he played all season. Seriously. Kid mailed it in all damn year. Announced he was going pro 15 mins after the OSU beatdown. A game in which he never showed up to play. Chase Winovich was banged up and still tried to give it his all. Can’t remember a #1 overall recruit disappointing so much. Said it before. I wouldn’t touch Gary with a 1st round pick if I was an NFL team. He’s talented but his heart/motor isn’t there. Not sure he loves football. He just happened to be freakishly big and athletic.
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Don't be surprised to see FR Emory Jones at QB a lot. Getting him reps against a real, live defense. He may be the guy next year.
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Shocking. Not.
Don’t know if he played all season. Can’t remember a #1 overall recruit disappointing so much.
Eh, he certainly didn't live up to the hype, but the #1 recruit the year before, Trenton Thompson just went undrafted last year.
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Don't be surprised to see FR Emory Jones at QB a lot. Getting him reps against a real, live defense. He may be the guy next year.
So excited for the college version of the NFL Preseason.
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More than the opponent, I was hoping UF would play in the Fiesta. I live like 3 miles from that stadium. Oh well. No interest in LSU vs UCF...there will be plenty of tickets available.
Didn't Wisconsin and Miami play in a bowl last year or the year before? FFS
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Eh, he certainly didn't live up to the hype, but the #1 recruit the year before, Trenton Thompson just went undrafted last year.
Trenton Thompson wasn’t as talented as Rashan or as highly coveted.
Rashan won The Opening MVP DL award as a sophomore in high school. To this day I think he’s still the only kid that was invited there 3 years in a row. He also won the Under Armour Bowl game MVP and lot of guys who covered it said he’s the best DL they’d ever seen. 247 ranks recruits all-time. Rashan is tied with Clowney for #1 in their rating system. Rashan is also the first and only recruit to be a unanimous #1 overall on all 4 of the internet ranking services- Rivals, 247, Scout, and ESPN.
He didn’t come close to living to the hype. Part of it was he was a rotational player on a loaded defensive line as a true freshman. He had a very solid sophomore season and looked prime for a breakout junior season. But his season this year was just flat out bad.
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In other words, I'm on his side, don't blame him but also don't like it.
The Networks/corporate advertising/sport media created this monster and keeps extending the season.With this many teams/games and why risk it.IMO CFB will be brought to heel by 2 things players sitting it out and fans not filling the stands.Too many of the Network wonks and media rubes getting comped admission,travel expenses,room accomodations.Yet they expect fans to pay exorbitant amounts week after week following the team into an extended season.Newsflash it's not hoops where you can squeeze 3-4 games into a week if need be.Didn't Jake Butt insure himself before the Bowl game he got hurt in?
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Jaylen Smith was the one who shifted all of this.
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It was pretty much out there before that even but his situation pretty much magnified it.Based on that pasting he laid on that saints player he appears recovered
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It was pretty much out there before that even but his situation pretty much magnified it.Based on that pasting he laid on that saints player he appears recovered
I don't recall guys sitting out bowl games prior to that.
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Our nickel is leaving early. We have a DE that is very likely to leave. Then the RT, a LB, and a RB that might. I'm always wary of how hard those guys will play in a non-playoff bowl.
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Shocking. Not.
Don’t know if he played all season. Seriously. Kid mailed it in all damn year. Announced he was going pro 15 mins after the OSU beatdown. A game in which he never showed up to play. Chase Winovich was banged up and still tried to give it his all. Can’t remember a #1 overall recruit disappointing so much. Said it before. I wouldn’t touch Gary with a 1st round pick if I was an NFL team. He’s talented but his heart/motor isn’t there. Not sure he loves football. He just happened to be freakishly big and athletic.
Ha, such negativity, such hate. He was a very consistently excellent run defender in each season. Maybe my expectations were too "low" (or maybe just right), because I've been happy about him the whole time. I'd say I'm not alone on that but you'll just say he was 2x 1st team All-Big Ten for no reason. I guess you think his Top 10 draft projection is a hundred spots off, too?
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My guess is Michigan will be a 7-10 point favorite, don't know if any lines are out yet.
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My guess is Michigan will be a 7-10 point favorite, don't know if any lines are out yet.
They are. UM -7.5
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http://www.espn.com/chalk/story/_/id/25435852/full-list-spreads-every-2018-19-college-football-bowl-game
Odds for all bowl games.
I generally think the underdogs do better in bowl games than in regular games.
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I would assume so. The more variables you introduce the more friendly to the underdog.
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If course, if I'm right, the lines would shift to compensate.
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I don't recall guys sitting out bowl games prior to that.
Shit i forget if it was Roby or Shazier who were supposedly injured insiders were saying other wise.I can't recall there were some other studs on teams that dodged the last game in the last 5-6 seasons
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Ha, such negativity, such hate. He was a very consistently excellent run defender in each season. Maybe my expectations were too "low" (or maybe just right), because I've been happy about him the whole time. I'd say I'm not alone on that but you'll just say he was 2x 1st team All-Big Ten for no reason. I guess you think his Top 10 draft projection is a hundred spots off, too?
Not negativity or hate. Just calling it how I see it. He was a solid rotational player as a true frosh. Didn't make a huge impact because he didn't get the minutes and he was playing on a loaded line behind a bunch of guys that are now in the NFL. His sophomore season was really good, not quite elite but close to it. His junior season? Catastrophe. Very little impact first 4 weeks while he was dealing with a shoulder injury, aggravated the shoulder injury and made it even worse, missed 4 games, then after he came back he basically mailed it in. He never had the best motor- add to that him trying to protect the shoulder from injury and secure his draft stock and that is why he had such a disappointing junior year. When he came back he was basically non-existent.
He's got the talent to be 1st round. But I wouldn't take him. He's not a sure thing by any stretch of the imagination.
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Jaylen Smith was the one who shifted all of this.
can't say I blame any kid for sitting after what happened to him. It's amazing he's even playing football in the NFL let alone looking like an up and coming star LB. His injury was one of the more gruesome I've ever seen. He went from being a top 5 pick to 2nd round. That's a huge difference in up front, guaranteed money.
I'd advise any one to sit that's a sure fire NFL draft pick unless they were playing in the CFB playoff.
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Congrats to the Maize and Blue for finally making it to the Peach Bowl after all these years. So that monkey along with beating a ranked team on the road hath been removed from off thy back.
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If course, if I'm right, the lines would shift to compensate.
Unless, for example with new coaches, the Vegas models do a poor job of accounting for the asymmetry of how much better they get during bowl practices than the more entrenched coaches.
I'm adding extra theories to your theory, so YMMV, but it at least sounds realistic.
And UF/M is one such new/entrenched coaching match up.
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The Peach for many years was SEC-v-ACC only, a system which worked for attendance.
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I think the betting public tends to think there is a larger difference between #6 and #12 than there actually may be in terms of points.
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We're not a very good 10th-ranked team. Michigan should win by 2+ scores.
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Michigan beat Florida what 41-3 in that bowl game in 2015 season?
Beat Florida again 33-17 in the regular season opener in 2017. Probably would’ve beaten them 33-3 had that bum Speight not thrown back to back pick 6s.
Kinda hard to get pumped playing them again. Was hoping to play LSU or Georgia.
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can't say I blame any kid for sitting after what happened to him. It's amazing he's even playing football in the NFL let alone looking like an up and coming star LB. His injury was one of the more gruesome I've ever seen. He went from being a top 5 pick to 2nd round. That's a huge difference in up front, guaranteed money.
I'd advise any one to sit that's a sure fire NFL draft pick unless they were playing in the CFB playoff.
Yeah, I think you can totally understand it, and still hate it as a fan.
I still wonder why there is an imaginary line between the regular season and the bowls. What was MSU playing for against Rutgers in the finale that they aren't against Oregon? They were 6-5, they were going to a meh bowl either way. If you are going to sit out Oregon, why not sit out the Rutgers game too?
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For me, the most interesting developmental windows of the game for Michigan:
Defense
- The future at DE: how do Paye, Uche and Hutchinson finish their first years of playing time? Will Luiji Vilain ever be healthy?
- The brightest present and only future at NT: after a season of injury-riddled non-existence, will Aubrey Solomon play?
- Will Don Brown keep splitting Josh Ross and Devin Gil 50/50 at OLB or finally acknowledge that Ross deserves 95+% of those snaps?
- In 2019: How will Ambry fit in, and will we see that in the Peach or more of Brandon Watson. Given BWat's final game, I'm guessing we wait, which is imperfect but a lot better than OK against anyone except OSU (and I assume Bama or OU).
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Offense
- Really like the personnel here (finally). Especially on OL. The main question is approach. At what point if ever do we return to a more dynamic passing attack. I don't mean Mike Leach. I mean 2015 Michigan when Harbaugh first arrived. That's a far spikier offense. (Schemes itself to punch above its weight class)
- As for the future: With 4/5 OL returning, plus every receiver, TE, and the QB ... I don't really have any nonschematic questions. The future at RB, I guess. But unless Chris Evans starts figuring more into the passing game, the real future is probably still in high school in California.
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Yeah, I think you can totally understand it, and still hate it as a fan.
I still wonder why there is an imaginary line between the regular season and the bowls. What was MSU playing for against Rutgers in the finale that they aren't against Oregon? They were 6-5, they were going to a meh bowl either way. If you are going to sit out Oregon, why not sit out the Rutgers game too?
I think the bowl practices (for the teams) can be worth a helmet's weight in your precious metal of choice without the non-CFP (+/- NY6) bowl games (for fans) being worth it in toilet paper.
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With the Michigan defense as it is (sans one game), I don't see much of a shot for the Gators here. They are challenged on offense anyway. Turnovers of course can change that, somewhat. They might slow Michigan down and keep the score lowish.
Maybe.
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My main concern is Michigan waking into a shock because Mullen got his players to leap ahead with their bowl practices.
That's the thing about first year coaches. They've only had two camps to develop their players. Most of the rest is staying afloat with what ya got.
Put another way: In predicting this game, increasing UF's Mullen Camps count by 50% ups the variance.
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My main concern is Michigan waking into a shock because Mullen got his players to leap ahead with their bowl practices.
That's the thing about first year coaches. They've only had two camps to develop their players. Most of the rest is staying afloat with what ya got.
Put another way: In predicting this game, increasing UF's Mullen Camps count by 50% ups the variance.
It's a great chance for Mullen to display his coaching excellence. Taking on a team that handed Florida their scaly behind last year.
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O'Maury Samuels dismissed following being charged with domestic violence
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O'Maury Samuels dismissed following being charged with domestic violence
What a waste of insane genetics and god given athletic ability. It really kind of surprises me that he and Kareem Walker both busted out and did absolutely nothing. Walker fell from his 5* pedestal with a very disappointing senior season but he was still a talented back. Samuels was an athletic freak who came out of nowhere to destroy all those NIKE opening camp records with his insane testing #’s and his ripped physique. Kid was 195 in high school built like a tank with muscles on top of muscles. Looked like he weighted 230 he was so jacked.
Neither one of them did squat. You can’t have that if you’re Michigan. You need your most talented backs to develop and pan out. Not fizzle out. Samuels was by far the best athlete they recruited at the position in like a decade. Sad.
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Apparently I work with Bizarro ELA. The guy is a Michigan fan. But today he showed up in a Michigan State shirt. And it was nice. Brand new. looked like he spent a pretty penny on it. So I kind of looked at him a little sideways. He ignored me. So I upped the cartoonish nature of my sideways glance just a hair. Finally he cracked. "I like 'em as long as they're not playing Michigan!"
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Sounds like Hill, Long, and Bush sitting out too. That’s 4 of your staters on defense sitting out. Wonder if Chase sits as well.
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Sounds like Hill, Long, and Bush sitting out too. That’s 4 of your staters on defense sitting out. Wonder if Chase sits as well.
Aren't they all underclassmen? I would guess they'd declare before making a decision there, so I'm calling BS
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Over/Under on the number of defensive starters UM has to sit before Florida can score 30 on them? I put it at 6.
It seems like FR QB Emory Jones will play, though I don't know how much. He's more of a runner than a passer, but he's a capable passer in limited time thus far. We have 2 bangers at RB. OSU transfer Trevon Grimes had his first 100 yard game vs FSU, I'm sure he's looking forward to having another big game vs Michigan. Our RT is looking like he'll leave early, probable 1st-rounder (Jawaan Taylor).
All I heard the middle of the season about UM was how their OTs sucked....well we have 3 pretty good pash-rushers who should expose them if that's the case. It's funny, but if you break it down position group-by-position group, Florida isn't really weak anywhere. The QB play could be better. We could be deeper at CB. But there are no glaring weaknesses.
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so, take the points?
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My general advice is to bet the dog in bowl games and take the points.
Florida will be one of the best teams Michigan has played (and vice versa). Just a few breaks could tilt it to the Gators, maybe more than a few. Michigan SHOULD win if turnovers etc. are about even.
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If the number of UM players rumored to be sitting out truly are, I'll probably flip my pick.
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Devin Bush declares for NFL draft. Skipping the bowl game.
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Just from a "mood" or "Vibe" standpoint, I feel like these are some hungry Gators and Michigan is not stoked (or fully-manned) to be there.
Oh wait, that would never happen. That's an invention of mine. We all know all teams go 100% every game.
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I would expect the players who go to play hard, and the ones who have mentally moved on to not play. That seems to be how it's trending.
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I'd agree that Florida had a better end of season than Michigan. I don't know how well players "get over" stuff like the OSU (or SEC CG) games. Some outcomes are crushing, worse than just losing badly to somebody.
I could feel the SEC CG slipping sliding away.
My sense is the Dawgs want to play well in the SB though, the Fields thing might be a distraction.
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Just from a "mood" or "Vibe" standpoint, I feel like these are some hungry Gators and Michigan is not stoked (or fully-manned) to be there.
Oh wait, that would never happen. That's an invention of mine. We all know all teams go 100% every game.
The kids that are playing will be going 100 percent.
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I think a good bit of this "motivation" factor is before the game is played, game prep, watching film, practicing hard or easing off, etc.
Teams might be jazzed when the whistle blows, fine, but if they got a bit fat and didn't pay attention, they are likely to get smacked. The opponent is probably better than all but 1 or 2 teams they played all year.
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Sounds like Higdon skipping the game too
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I think a good bit of this "motivation" factor is before the game is played, game prep, watching film, practicing hard or easing off, etc.
Teams might be jazzed when the whistle blows, fine, but if they got a bit fat and didn't pay attention, they are likely to get smacked. The opponent is probably better than all but 1 or 2 teams they played all year.
the truth
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Devin Bush declares for NFL draft. Skipping the bowl game.
One of the solid points on stretching the season out.Sux but i can't blame any of them specially if they are projected 1st round.Which Bush will land no later than the early 2nd.What's he get if the same thing befalls him that happened to Jake Butt/Jalyn Smith?He gets an atta boy and shafted out of few million
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One of the solid points on stretching the season out.Sux but i can't blame any of them specially if they are projected 1st round.Which Bush will land no later than the early 2nd.What's he get if the same thing befalls him that happened to Jake Butt/Jalyn Smith?He gets an atta boy and shafted out of few million
Ya Bush should absolutely sit out. He’s 1st or 2nd round. I’d be shocked if he wasn’t. Playing makes no sense for him or Gary. Or even a guy like Winovich who is likely 1st or 2nd rd.
Higdon skipping the game is kind of a head scratcher to me. He’s not a big time NFL prospect. The only thing he could do with a big game vs Florida would be to boost his draft stock. I’d be shocked if he was anything but a 5th or 6th rounder. MAYBE with a huge bowl game and really good performances in the senior bowl and combine he could jump up to the 4th, maybe 3rd round. Just doesn’t make sense to skip for a guy like him.
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So the Peach Bowl is basically a scrimmage? Mkay, got it.
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So the Peach Bowl is basically a scrimmage? Mkay, got it.
I think from now on they are all gonna be scrimmages except for the playoff games and maybe the Rose Bowl. I know that there is a playoff game now, but the Rose Bowl is still the grand daddy of them all.
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Keep telling yourself that. The one game you hold near and dear just happens to be the exception. Yaaaay!
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Ya Bush should absolutely sit out. He’s 1st or 2nd round. I’d be shocked if he wasn’t. Playing makes no sense for him or Gary. Or even a guy like Winovich who is likely 1st or 2nd rd.
Higdon skipping the game is kind of a head scratcher to me. He’s not a big time NFL prospect. The only thing he could do with a big game vs Florida would be to boost his draft stock. I’d be shocked if he was anything but a 5th or 6th rounder. MAYBE with a huge bowl game and really good performances in the senior bowl and combine he could jump up to the 4th, maybe 3rd round. Just doesn’t make sense to skip for a guy like him.
Was actually listening to the argument that it's guys like Higdon with the most to lose. Bush will get drafted either way, and the way rookie contracts are now, it matters less than it used to. It's all about that second contract anyway. But a guy like Higdon? An injury now may be the difference between getting drafted and not. That those guys need to be healthy and be 100% at the combine more than a Bush or Gary.
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Michigan LB Bush had yet to be cleared by medical staff to play after his injury in the Ohio State game. Bush was more irreplaceable, if any player truely is, than Gary and Higdon. So, the game will be closer than if everyone was playing.
I would guess that Michigan OT JBB will be back so that’ll be a big help. Evans and Wilson are more than capable at RB. Michigan’s offense should give Florida some grief and score enough points to win.
Florida 24
Michigan 31
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Starting RT Juwann Bushell Beatty to sit out the bowl game.
I’m all for legit high NFL draft guys like Gary or Bush or Peppers sitting out. Protect yourself, get your money.
But when guys that clearly aren’t legit NFL prospects like Higdon and Bushell Beatty are sitting out- it’s just getting ridiculous.
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Starting RT Juwann Bushell Beatty to sit out the bowl game.
I’m all for legit high NFL draft guys like Gary or Bush or Peppers sitting out. Protect yourself, get your money.
But when guys that clearly aren’t legit NFL prospects like Higdon and Bushell Beatty are sitting out- it’s just getting ridiculous.
Was listening to a couple guys on ESPN say the exact opposite. That guys like Bush and Gary will be fine. Under this CBA you make your money on your second contract, and someone will draft them fairly high no matter what, and they'll get to prove themselves. It's the borderline guys where the NFL may decide there are a million guys to take in the 6th round who likely won't pan out, so they'll at least take their chance on the guy who didn't miss the combine with an injury.
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next man up!
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I'm starting to get confident over here.
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So without their 2? top defenders and their starting RB, Michigan and Florida are basically even. Cool. Glad this bowl illustrated it.
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Michigan to get blown out again?
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Maybe, but it's just become a depth thing. Perfectly even game in the first half. This kids-siting-out thing is so lame.
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So... Jim Hairball is this generation's John Cooper? Ridiculous amounts of talent, can't beat rival, or win abowl game.
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Florida caught a few breaks here. CJB is going to hear a bit of noise. Mullen will not.
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*This is the only bowl game played by two teams in the top 10 and both top 10 public universities.
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Florida caught a few breaks here. CJB is going to hear a bit of noise. Mullen will not.
The only break they caught is playing a team who never even lets mediocre to bad teams stay close, let alone win, but has been completely unable to beat good teams under Harbaugh.
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So... Jim Hairball is this generation's John Cooper? Ridiculous amounts of talent, can't beat rival, or win abowl game.
Makes me wonder how in the world he owned USC. The Stanford teams he coached weren't half as talented as this Michigan team.
And I also think this is partly an indictment of how utterly mediocre the PAC is.
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Props to Florida. They showed up and Michigan didn't.
My one hope is that in the aftermath of this game, they'll make some changes on offense to be more aggressive and pass-oriented next year. Jake Rudock had over 3000 yards at Michigan so I don't see why that couldn't happen.
I don't understand what happened with the defense, especially the secondary, today. Florida wasn't doing anything that Michigan had struggled with this year. Being without Bush, Gary, and Gil & Paye getting injured isn't an excuse.
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Props to Florida. They showed up and Michigan didn't.
My one hope is that in the aftermath of this game, they'll make some changes on offense to be more aggressive and pass-oriented next year. Jake Rudock had over 3000 yards at Michigan so I don't see why that couldn't happen.
I don't understand what happened with the defense, especially the secondary, today. Florida wasn't doing anything that Michigan had struggled with this year. Being without Bush, Gary, and Gil & Paye getting injured isn't an excuse.
That is 100 percent on the head coach.
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Makes me wonder how in the world he owned USC. The Stanford teams he coached weren't half as talented as this Michigan team.
And I also think this is partly an indictment of how utterly mediocre the PAC is.
Be careful with that one, some SECers might cite Urban Meyer's record and make the same argument for the B10.
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Being without Bush, Gary, and Gil & Paye getting injured isn't an excuse.
That's a tough call as team mates could get dejected and that could have a ripple effect on morale.And a lot of times momentum rears it's ugly head also.Not sure how many starters FLA had out,just saw the score didn't watch as the alternator on my Toyota quit and my Water heater is giving me problems
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Some entertaining shares on twitter....
-Since OSU hired Tressel, UM is 6-27 vs OSU and in bowl games.
-This is UM's worst blowout since its loss to Tennessee during the early signing period last week.
-UM's early NFL kids sit out, UF's play and pick off passes and score and pose and win.
-Florida was the only team to rush for 200+ yards on UM this year.
-Apparently Florida is winning the NC next year?
-Also apparently, in a game called "basketball", Florida got up 21-0 vs Butler
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Confetti angels are more fun to make than snow angels.
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Also apparently, in a game called "basketball", Florida got up 21-0 vs Butler
Glad they found a lower tier Big East team more their speed.
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We've played MSU in hoops nearly every year, I believe. At least it feels that way. Seem to fall short every time, but alas, that's just basketball.
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We've played MSU in hoops nearly every year, I believe. At least it feels that way. Seem to fall short every time, but alas, that's just basketball.
I believe theyve played twice in the regular season, one home and home. I think yes MSU won both, plus obviously in a national title game. MSU also beat them once in a Citrus Bowl when Spurrier was there. Maybe Florida won once in baseball or some other sport the best players don't play at all in. Big win today over Michigans backups to finally end an indefinite losing streak against the state.
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Clemson may be rolling now.
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Funny stuff OrangutanMan.
Those players sitting out definitely hurt the continuity of the defense.
Can't stand how these guys are during bowl season anymore. Being a fan of all CFB, when you COMMIT to a team, you should COMMIT for it all.
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Clemson is no longer "rolling now", they have done rolled.
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I believe theyve played twice in the regular season, one home and home. I think yes MSU won both, plus obviously in a national title game. MSU also beat them once in a Citrus Bowl when Spurrier was there. Maybe Florida won once in baseball or some other sport the best players don't play at all in. Big win today over Michigans backups to finally end an indefinite losing streak against the state.
I was at that Citrus Bowl, I'll never forget it.
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Pathetic showing in a bowl game after a loss to OSU. Again.
Harbaugh is on the hot seat imo. If the same old same old happens in 2019, he’s done. I really can’t see him surviving into 2020 if it’s just more of the same old bullshit.
He needs to fire Pep Hamilton and overhaul the entire coaching staff and give up control of the offense. IF he doesn’t, he’s just signing his own death warrant.
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Makes me wonder how in the world he owned USC. The Stanford teams he coached weren't half as talented as this Michigan team.
And I also think this is partly an indictment of how utterly mediocre the PAC is.
That was a long time ago. Nearly a decade ago.
The college game has changed drastically, evolved to something different.
You either adapt and thrive or you stay stuck in your ways, be a stubborn asshole and fall to the wayside and slip into mediocrity. Look at Saban, he adapted drastically and just kept winning championships. Great example of adapting and thriving. Now look at Jim. Great example of the other one.
Jim needs to go back to the NFL. The college game has passed him by. He’s not innovative enough for it. He needs to go to the league where everyone runs the same shit and all the players are professionals who only focus on football and don’t have things like school that get in the way.
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He also needs to create a culture in which the kids he has on his team WANT TO PLAY FOOTBALL FOR THEIR TEAM and not sit out FOR THEMSELVES.
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He also needs to create a culture in which the kids he has on his team WANT TO PLAY FOOTBALL FOR THEIR TEAM and not sit out FOR THEMSELVES.
I don’t think you get blown out like that because 4 or 5 staters sit out.
You get blown out because the coaching sucks and the players weren’t ready or up for the game and when the going gets tough the players just say f it and quit.
If Jim wouldn’t have shit the bed so epically vs Ohio State and actually won the OSU game his team was likely in the playoff and not one kid would’ve sat that out.
Notice how no NFL draft prospects from the playoff teams sat out?
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Michigan has ended the year on a 2+ game losing streak in 9 of the past 15 seasons.
#johncooper
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Michigan has ended the year on a 2+ game losing streak in 9 of the past 15 seasons.
#johncooper
Jim Cooper.
Or
John Harbaugh.
He’s definitely trending in that direction. Hopefully we get our Tressell to reverse the trend after Jim is gone and then after the next guy gets fired for a scandal we can hopefully fall assbackwards into one of the greatest college coaches ever to replace the fired disgraced coach.
Ohio State got lucky as shit with those two hires back to back man.
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You guys are harsh about the players sitting out not mattering. They were starters for a reason. #1 DL, #1 LB, and #1 RB is the same as tying a hand behind your back for a boxing match. Yes, the next man up should fill the void, but backups are backups for a reason.
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Jim Cooper.
Or
John Harbaugh.
He’s definitely trending in that direction. Hopefully we get our Tressell to reverse the trend after Jim is gone and then after the next guy gets fired for a scandal we can hopefully fall assbackwards into one of the greatest college coaches ever to replace the fired disgraced coach.
Ohio State got lucky as shit with those two hires back to back man.
Hell, OSU has a streak of coaching home runs going back decades. Their worst hire still had a crazy good record and would have still made the CFP with a legit shot to win a national title in a couple 10-1 years that ended with an upset loss to UM
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You guys are harsh about the players sitting out not mattering. They were starters for a reason. #1 DL, #1 LB, and #1 RB is the same as tying a hand behind your back for a boxing match. Yes, the next man up should fill the void, but backups are backups for a reason.
...to say nothing of a starting OL when playing against that defensive line.
I was very, very surprised to hear of the four guys sitting out. That kind of thing is what you'd expect from SC or Texas A&M, not Michigan. It raises an eyebrow about the goings-on behind the scenes in Ann Arbor.
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Harbaugh is on the hot seat imo. If the same old same old happens in 2019, he’s done. I really can’t see him surviving into 2020 if it’s just more of the same old bullshit.
Everybody is on the same page regarding Harbaugh’s stubbornness with the offense but can I make the case why his seat isn’t so hot? Especially given the big picture?
Michigan put so much effort into bringing him home, so much they pay him $7 mil year not to mention the mammoth buyout.
I also think all parties are still spooked by the RichRod, Hoke, and Dave Brandon era(s) that one reason for not letting go of a ten win/yr coach will be the real risk of returning to a 6 win/yr coach.
And in the even bigger picture, I think the parties in charge are level headed enough to look around the conference and take a breath of relief that the fan’s biggest complaint is a 10-3 season in wake of the recent, and COSTLY, scandals lingering in Columbus and especially East Lansing.
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Everybody is on the same page regarding Harbaugh’s stubbornness with the offense but can I make the case why his seat isn’t so hot? Especially given the big picture?
Michigan put so much effort into bringing him home, so much they pay him $7 mil year not to mention the mammoth buyout.
I also think all parties are still spooked by the RichRod, Hoke, and Dave Brandon era(s) that one reason for not letting go of a ten win/yr coach will be the real risk of returning to a 6 win/yr coach.
And in the even bigger picture, I think the parties in charge are level headed enough to look around the conference and take a breath of relief that the fan’s biggest complaint is a 10-3 season in wake of the recent, and COSTLY, scandals lingering in Columbus and especially East Lansing.
Haha. “ costly and lingering”. Incorrect on both counts. The sound of losing when your supposed to win.
Michigan has substantially more talent than Florida. Do you think it makes UM fans feel better that an assistant at OSU was accused of domestic abuse, and it overflowed on to the head coach there? Just ask them. Kicking the hell out of Harbaugh as underdogs erase any of that, which is why it was not costly or lingering.
The real questions are, why can’t Michigan win big games, beat rivals, win bowl games, or finish strong, when they clearly have the players to do it and the head coach who was brought in to do all of those things?
Saying the answer is in Columbus or East Lansing is excuse making and deflecting. The answer is in that locker room somewhere....
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Florida's recruiting classes were ranked higher than UM's in 2014 and 15. So while Michigan's overall roster is more talented (they skew young bc of attrition), the veterans on Florida aren't any worse.
Anyway, UM was handicapped roster-wise and Florida wasn't, and that's probably the difference between an even game at half turning into a blowout.
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Maybe going forward we will see 10-3 as a great season for Michigan.
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Harbaugh keeps winning 10 and he will stay in Ann Arbor
blow out losses in big games at the end of the season magnify things, but the question would be: Who's going to do better than Harbaugh?
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I would think any major program that is limited to 10-3 while losing consistently to the major rival would get unhappy.
We're talking Mark Richt here, fired after two 10 win seasons and two conference titles.
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I agree, but the fear is that 10 win seasons could easily go to 5 win seasons
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Florida was my pick for most under ranked team, and I think I nailed that one. I had Miami for the reverse and am pretty close there as well.
I don't think Florida is by any means a great team, but they beat most of the teams they should have, and upset LSU and UM, which compensates for losses to UK and Mizzou. They lost the turnover margin 3-0 versus UGA and that had some bearing on the outcome, but they didn't move the ball very consistently either.
Give them a good QB and they would be a tough out.
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Hell, OSU has a streak of coaching home runs going back decades. Their worst hire still had a crazy good record and would have still made the CFP with a legit shot to win a national title in a couple 10-1 years that ended with an upset loss to UM
Yeah, lost in all this is that John Cooper had a hall of fame coaching career. Not the worst guy to be compared to.
While he does have some Cooper-esque qualities, 1-3 in Bowl games, .500 vs Sparty, O-fer OSU and ND, he pretty much handles everyone else that they play with ease. He won't be on any type of hot seat winning ten games per year, imo. (Particularly now that they have one of those elusive Big Ten divisional co-championship banners to hang)
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Haha. “ costly and lingering”. Incorrect on both counts. The sound of losing when your supposed to win.
Saying the answer is in Columbus or East Lansing is excuse making and deflecting. The answer is in that locker room somewhere....
What about my other points? Mainly does Michigan want to:
A) get rid of a guy they spent so much effort courting?
B) is paying $7/8 annually, not to mention the buyout should Harbaugh be forced out
C) and go on a hire search that might net no better than a coach along the likes of 6/7 win RichRod and Hoke?
In aggregate Harbaugh really isn’t a serious candidate for layoff.
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He's not going to be fired any time soon for those reasons, but I can see fans chaffing a bit, and it could get worse if he doesn't manage a win over OSU soon. Better they go 9-4 and beat OSU than 11-2 and lose.