CFB51 College Football Fan Community
The Power Five => Big XII => Topic started by: TexasFan on August 11, 2018, 06:40:13 PM
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Was Tom Herman the one who blew the whistle on Urban Myer and Zack Smith?
https://www.sbnation.com/college-football/2018/8/11/17679126/tom-herman-urban-meyer-zach-smith (https://www.sbnation.com/college-football/2018/8/11/17679126/tom-herman-urban-meyer-zach-smith)
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Weird how Snook would so overblow the coup of Urban Meyer beating Tom Herman for 1 particular recruit that he would claim it as Herman’s alleged motivation for throwing Urban under the bus.
Coaches lose recruits all the time. I can’t imagine it’s that big a deal.
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So I’ve been avoiding much more than a cursory interest in this Zach Smith - Courtney Smith situation but now that it is impeding into the preseason commentary of my team I’m having to read opinions on the topic.
Only the priciple actors know the facts but it doesn’t stop apologists with no firsthand information from weaving defenses and accusations.
Stunning and appalling but not surprising. Who’d ever thought we’d live in a world where Baptists defend rape and... well I’ll withhold citing any political ironies.
So to keep from being an apologist myself, I’m not about to defend Tom Herman. I have no idea what he did or didn’t do or whatever kind of motives he may have had for doing or not doing anything.
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Hey remember that time when Urban Meyer made fun of Tom Herman for spreading fairy dust or some such?
Well this is clearly Tom Herman's revenge.
Word to the wise-- stay out of Tom Herman's way, MFer.
(is that what we're supposed to say or something?)
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I mean, really, who other than an Ohio State fan or a Florida fan would care if that's exactly what Herman did? He was a POS at BG, he was a POS at Florida, he's a POS at Ohio State no matter what his culpability in this newest matter turns out to be. The dude is a good coach, but I can't say he wouldn't deserve it if people threw him under the bus.
In much, much more interesting news, this time next year we'll be talking about the last few weeks of practices leading up to kickoff between LSU and Texas. Herman year 3 vs. whoever LSU's new coach is going to be :)
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Man drama. It's worse than Golden Girls reruns.
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Man drama. It's worse than Golden Girls reruns.
This ^^^
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Oklahoma State Football Coach Mike Gundy Upset - YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoMmbUmKN0E)
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Oklahoma State Football Coach Mike Gundy Upset - YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoMmbUmKN0E)
I'd love to see a throw down like that in the White House Press room.
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you might get your wish
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Well, first you need to a get a real MAN back in the WH ...
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Politics board is over there ------->
But if you insist on talking about it, then I'll just say we haven't had a real MAN in the Oval Office since January, 1989.
How 'bout THEM apples?
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Politics board is over there ------->
But if you insist on talking about it, then I'll just say we haven't had a real MAN in the Oval Office since January, 1989.
How 'bout THEM apples?
I'll see you, and raise you with even more apples. Bushels of them.
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Apples? More like baloney. An actor. You gotta be kidding me. I’ll take an engineer on a nuclear sub. Or a PT boat commander in WW2. Or a pilot who flew in WW2. Or the five star general who led the Allies to victory Europe in WW2.
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Jeez.... by that logic there hasn't been A REAL MAN in office since George Washington lead the colonies through the Revolutionary War.
This is ridiculous.
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Well of course it is. This is the internet.
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did someone say ridiculous?
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Here’s a crazy thought:
Instead of contributing to polarization, how about we tap the brakes on demonizing hyperboles.
How about we start standing up to such nonsense instead of contributing to it.
Each president was an imperfect human being with good qualities and bad, sound ideas and flawed.
We each may have very valid, eloquent reasons for our ideollogic beliefs.
It doesn’t enhance our position to mock the opposition or extrapolate their positions to erroneous assumptions.
We live in an ugly country because that’s what we do.
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This is good thread for this board, and a good group of people to have it in front of. It stabs at what I feel is the heart of the problem.
We're college football fans. We blindly and passionately support our programs through thick and thin. We're allowed to see argument through whatever subjective prism suits us.
The problem is, this isn't real. It's a hallucination. When it's over, our lives just haven't been materially altered based on the actions of 18-22 year olds.
Conflate that against elected officials. They're public servants installed to present solutions to actual, real-world problems. These problems are almost never binary, and almost never have an obvious perfect answer. As such, our system gives them time in office to demonstrate that their efforts are beneficial in the aggregate - rather than demanding immediate gratification.
I propose that we're currently using our "sports fan" model in our political life. We're assigning labels (good and bad) and choosing which facts we like. We support "our team" and revel in the cheers while encouraging the venom spewed toward the "opponent". We never stop to consider the credentials or likelihood of problem solving ability in the choices provided.
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Politics board is over there ------->
utee makes a good point. We don't want to go sour with political arguments.
But what do y'all call a "real" man? Dang guys, I could have 4-5 job offers in less than a week right now. But I like my job so...
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Game recognize game. A "real man" feels no pressure nor inclination to change his extrinsic stylings in order to convey "manliness" to another.
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Well I don't know ALL of the criteria, but Mike Gundy seemed to think that being 40 was at least one of them.
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It's the plumbing.
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Gundy was standing up for his kids against unfair judgment from the press. I imagine that whatever political side we're on, we feel that the press is unfair to our side. We'll all be able to give examples, and I think we'd all be right. This is not an invitation to go there, but a neutral statement saying, let's don't.
Much more importantly, apart from that, I like the standing up for his peeps part. I like the idea of taking the responsibility for what happens to his team, and shifting it away from his kids. Not all coaches or presidents or, in my world, dept chairs or deans, are MAN (or WOMAN) enough to do that. But it's what makes a good leader in my book. Are you responsible for your own team and accept the blame when things don't go well OR do you blame your subordinates (or players or those who work for you) for problems that come up, simply because you can dump on them?
For me this is why Gundy's rant was really admirable. He told the press to come after him, and leave his kids alone. Damn straight. I like that guy, despite the fact that he's coach of the Pokes.
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And, of course, there's always leadership training principles, such as I was taught when I became a non-commissioned officer in the USMC (https://originleadership.com/jjdidtiebuckle-usmc-leadership-traits/), which when it comes right down to it, are not that different from rules we all probably learned back in Sunday School or Kindergarten.
If you're a guy and live up to those 14 principles, I'd say you're doing pretty good in the MAN department.
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Hopefully I’m not the kind of guy that would grope to defend folks on my favorite team, regardless of facts, but gee whiz.
You hate to see a dirty laundry meltdown on Twitter like Zach Smith is having.
Wow.
Such salaciousness is kind of like tromping across the sopping wet floor of a public bathroom. Makes you feel dirty and repulsed.
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You hate to see a dirty laundry meltdown on Twitter like Zach Smith is having.
Herman better win lots of games. Lots.
I'm sure Del Conte understands what is and isn't "Texas standard". We don't want no man drama around here.
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assuming UT wins 9 or 10 games this season I think TH is right on schedule
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I think that's what happens when you:
1) Make $700,000 a year for a decade
2) Get fired.
3) Run out of Netflix
4) Are bat-crap crazy.
The phrase "coke fueled Twitter rant" gets thrown around too casually these days, however...
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assuming UT wins 9 or 10 games this season I think TH is right on schedule
I think winning 9 is outstanding.
Except, well, man drama. Not good.
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The phrase "coke fueled Twitter rant" gets thrown around too casually these days, however...
The problem is, he could aim his Twitter rants in many different directions. For whatever reason, he's coming at Herman. But a reason exists.
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I think winning 9 is outstanding.
Except, well, man drama. Not good.
then there are some who thrive on it
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The problem is, he could aim his Twitter rants in many different directions. For whatever reason, he's coming at Herman. But a reason exists.
Zach Smith is a sociopath and a criminal, and you should not give him any attention.
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I think that's what happens when you:
1) Make $700,000 a year for a decade
2) Get fired.
3) Run out of Netflix
4) Are bat-crap crazy.
The phrase "coke fueled Twitter rant" gets thrown around too casually these days, however...
1 through 3 are nice, but all it really takes is #4
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You hate to see a dirty laundry meltdown on Twitter like Zach Smith is having.
Yep, the only thing I've concluded from all of this so far is that Zach Smith is a douche.
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I've concluded that the primary purpose of twitter is for really stupid people to out themselves.
Mission accomplished.
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I'm all for anything that makes the horn program and its coaches look like fools.
But Smith is clearly bipolar or a sociopath. I don't see how you can take anything he says seriously. As much as I'd like for there to be truth to his twitter rants, he's so far out in left field you can't believe him. And even if some of what he's saying is true, he's such a nutcase that his own unstable behavior will overshadow anything of truth he puts out there.
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But Smith is clearly bipolar or a sociopath. I don't see how you can take anything he says seriously. As much as I'd like for there to be truth to his twitter rants, he's so far out in left field you can't believe him.
Even if the guy is a nutjob, there's a zillion people in the world for him to aim his sociopathic release. At the very least, we know he does not like Tom Herman, for whatever reason.
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Even if the guy is a nutjob, there's a zillion people in the world for him to aim his sociopathic release. At the very least, we know he does not like Tom Herman, for whatever reason.
He's already stated why, elsewhere. Michele Herman helped his ex-wife get away from his wife-beating ass. Psychopaths like this maniac don't think other people should interfere with their wife-beating ways, and they blame anyone else, everyone else, for taking away the object of their abuse. Pretty textbook example of a wife-beater lashing out at those that try to interfere.
That of course doesn't mean it didn't happen, and I personally prefer to believe that our coach and his attractive wife DID snort the nose candy off a peeler's rack. :)
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Well I think we can all agree with that.
I do like the visual of Herman's wife snorting coke off a stripper.
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But Smith is clearly bipolar or a sociopath. I don't see how you can take anything he says seriously.
goldurned parroting Aggie epigones.
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He's already stated why, elsewhere. Michele Herman helped his ex-wife get away from his wife-beating ass.
Ew. This gets deeper. Ok then, I'll butt out.
Whatever happened to conference realignment threads....
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That of course doesn't mean it didn't happen, and I personally prefer to believe that our coach and his attractive wife DID snort the nose candy off a peeler's rack. :)
Barry Switzer approves of this message. Sounds like Tom and Barry might get along just fine.
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Back in the '70s, Texas tried a quick kick against OU. A quick kick, of course, being a completely surprise punt out of a normal offensive formation on a non-punting down. Sounds crazy nowadays that anybody would willing turn the ball over on a 2nd or 3rd down but back when offenses moved slowly in small increments while aggressive defenses kicked butt, the idea of pinning your opponent back inside their ten was sound football strategy.
None the less, quick kicks were rare. You only pulled that rabbit out of your hat once every six or seven years.
So DKR and the Horns had a quick kick all planned and OU read it like they were expecting it. The play backfired spectacularly and Texas lost to OU.
Feeling like something wasn't quite right about that, DKR launched an investigation and determined that a OU assistant named Larry Lacewell had snuck into Texas Memorial Stadium, hid in a restroom, and spied on Texas' practices. DKR went public, Lacewell denied it and Switzer laughed it off.
Years later, both Lacewell and Switzer admitted it was true, but long before those of us who follow the Horns got to hear that news, we heard another story about Switzer and Lacewell.
We heard Switzer seduced Lacewell's wife, Lacewell's marriage ended, Switzer laughed it off and Lacwell remained loyal to Switzer.
There wasn't much joy down here to be gained from hearing such a nasty story. Just kind of weird feeling that folks up north in that belly of Oklahoma/Arkansas were kind of sick or stupid and Switzer was even lower than we thought.
Hate to stick that out there after Cousin Fred so graciously defended Herman. Guess I'm just saying there ain't nothing new under the sun.
Coaches are kind of alphas. Alphas are kind of jerks. Nothing really surprises me. I just kind of wish we could be spared the details sometimes.
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He was a self-described Bootlegger's Boy. Successful, but not admirable. Charismatic, but not a good role model.
Bob Stoops came along and showed that you can be both a winner and highly ethical at the same time. And, it appears Lincoln Riley is more like Stoops than Switzer. That's a good thing.
As for Tom Herman, I will reserve comment. Like BC, I'm not too much into "man drama." Soap operas are for daytime tv, which I don't watch, and supermarket tabloids, which I don't read.
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He was a self-described Bootlegger's Boy. Successful, but not admirable. Charismatic, but not a good role model.
Bob Stoops came along and showed that you can be both a winner and highly ethical at the same time. And, it appears Lincoln Riley is more like Stoops than Switzer. That's a good thing.
As for Tom Herman, I will reserve comment. Like BC, I'm not too much into "man drama." Soap operas are for daytime tv, which I don't watch, and supermarket tabloids, which I don't read.
True, true, true
And in hindsight my 50-some-odd year old self sees Switzer (and Lacewell) as distinctively more Arkie than Okie, much like the equally sketchy Jerry Jones and Jimmy Johnson. Not so much as an Okie like the laidback but colorful Mike Gundy or Troy Aikman. Course I couldn't see that distinction when I was 11.
Texas had its own lovable Okie too.
Incidentally my mom and all of her sisters were from Oklahoma. I have cousins from Arkansas.
My mom and aunts were fun, country, crazy and violatile but you always felt physically safe with them. They might rip you a new one, destroy your self-esteem and send you to years of therapy but you could feel certain you'd be alive to go to bed that night.
Not so with the Arkansas cousins. They were liable to accidentally shoot you, get you bit by a snake or in a brawl with some stranger but it was all in the name of good clean fun. No animus. Just danger.
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Not so with the Arkansas cousins. They were liable to accidentally shoot you, get you bit by a snake or in a brawl with some stranger but it was all in the name of good clean fun. No animus. Just danger.
This is correct. Would've also accepted Alabama, Tennessee and Georgia as correct answers.
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That's like... four of the same thing.
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Alabama is the dumpiest of all those for sure.
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What gives with Tom Herman and his wife? Let Zach Smith go and shut up.
https://sports.yahoo.com/texas-coach-tom-hermans-wife-trolls-zach-smith-ice-cold-t-shirt-011518950.html (https://sports.yahoo.com/texas-coach-tom-hermans-wife-trolls-zach-smith-ice-cold-t-shirt-011518950.html)
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What gives with Tom Herman and his wife? Let Zach Smith go and shut up.
https://sports.yahoo.com/texas-coach-tom-hermans-wife-trolls-zach-smith-ice-cold-t-shirt-011518950.html (https://sports.yahoo.com/texas-coach-tom-hermans-wife-trolls-zach-smith-ice-cold-t-shirt-011518950.html)
She's know for her strong Twitter game. It's very true that, when you're attached to the boss of a large public enterprise like Texas Football, Inc, that it's safer to maintain a low profile and just smile a lot, Courtney Herman has never hesitated to bring the offense.
She's a shade-throwing master ninja. Not usually one to wade into the muck and haphazardly sling poo, her responses are brilliantly subtle, on point, and cutting.
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When psychos hone in on me I’d much rather be the silent dog prepared to bite than the barking dog egging on the psycho but all of these football coaches and their wives are alphas much like politicians. They’re not normal people like us. All we can do is enjoy or lament the entertainment of their panache.
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She's also using it as a platform to raise money for charity, so there's that.
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I think sadly that we live in a time that to remain quiet in the face of accusations marks you as guilty
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That's a decent point, lh320
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She's a shade-throwing master ninja. Not usually one to wade into the muck and haphazardly sling poo, her responses are brilliantly subtle, on point, and cutting.
this maybe very true, but there's a saying about wrestling with pigs
and that saying is always true
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I wouldn't mind wrestling in the mud with Ms. Michelle.
Remember the movie "Stripes"?
The mud wrestling scene was my favorite part of that movie.
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those aren't Hogs, Hooky
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This type stuff will be the downfall of the Hermans. At least at Texas.
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A woman raising money for charity will be her downfall? What kind of heartless monster are you?
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If Tom wins a Big 12 championship this year (something Mack only did twice in 13 years), I wouldn't mind if Ms. Michelle mudwrestles with as many pigs as she wants to mudwrestle with.
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that would be my attitude
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I wouldn't mind wrestling in the mud with Ms. Michelle.
Remember the movie "Stripes"?
The mud wrestling scene was my favorite part of that movie.
Fair? Who said anything about fair? The world isn't fair! Truth isn't fair! Is it fair that you were born that way? No!
They're not expecting anything like you, Ox! They're expecting one of these other lunks, but you're different! You're weird! You're a mutant! A killer! You're LEAN, MEAN, FIGHTIN' MACHINE!
I wouldn't normally recommend it, but she knows her craft. She's just chippy enough to let the subject know he's been engaged without devolving into petty name calling and mud slinging. It requires a precise blend of catty, snark, and restraint. She's a master, and I salute her for it.
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If Tom wins a Big 12 championship this year (something Mack only did twice in 13 years), I wouldn't mind if Ms. Michelle mudwrestles with as many pigs as she wants to mudwrestle with.
It’s crazy to think about all the great Texas teams from the early to late 2000s and that they only won 2 conference championships. And then even when Texas managed to sneak by OU somebody like A&M or KSU was there to trip them up.
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Yeah we call that cockroaching. A&M and Kansas State did quite well playing their role of cockroaches. But the worst cockroaching was definitely Tech in 2008.
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“Cockroaching” is just Texas fan spin. The reality is they can’t take it when they get out-played and out-coached by “lesser” programs. It’s just Texas euphemism for “we suck”
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in the minds of Horn fans, every loss is a cockroaching
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Nah, no cockroach losses this past season.
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Do I have to remind everyone of the origin of the term?
In 1961 Texas was 8-0 and ranked #1 in mid to late November when the 2-4-1 TCU Horned Frogs came to Austin and upended the Horns 6-0. After the game, DKR said, “They’re like a bunch of cockroaches. It’s not what they eat and tote off, it’s what they fall into and mess up that hurts.”
Hence a cockroach is a team with no aspirations that upsets a team with national championship aspirations.
I wouldn’t say that Texas Tech cockroached Texas in 2008 anymore than I would say that Texas cockroached Nebraska in 1999 because the upsetters were good teams.
I would say Texas cockroached OU in 2015. I would say Iowa State cockroached Oklahoma State in 2011. I would say Baylor cockroached Kansas State in 2012. I would say Oklahoma State cockroached OU in 2001. I would say Kansas St cockroached Texas in 2006.
Cockroaching happens all the time. Teams that never compete for conference titles but routinely upset teams who do are recidivist cockroaches.
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“Recidivist cockroaches” - heh, love the image
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Tech was absolutely a cockroach in 2008. Just because they had a high ranking doesn't mean they were actually national championship contenders-- what happened to them in Norman, and then later in their bowl game, proved their unworthiness.
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I think Tech earned their ranking in 2008
at least at the time of the game
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I think Tech earned their ranking in 2008
at least at the time of the game
No doubt and they outplayed Texas most of that game too. Just look at the total yard or first down stats. Golden opportunity for Texas, and they whiffed.
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in the minds of Horn fans, every loss is a cockroaching
True. They drink that burnt orange colored kool-aid, sing about Gabriel blowing his um Horn (or is it corn), and believe they’re on a mission from God. It’s pretty simple really and it’s just plum astonishing that the rest of us don’t get it. Frank we need to get with it, man!
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I know there's a lot of 'horn fans that lament that Mack only had 2 conference champions during his pretty otherwise amazing run but can you imagine that Texas Tech has still NEVER won a sole conference championship? They shared the SWC a time or two and shared the XII South with OU/Tex in '08 but never played in the CCG.
It must suck knowing that your best period of football didn't result in any hardware. They just fired Kliff today, wonder what direction they'll go next. Leach really had them dialed in for awhile, I'm still not sure how or why they ran him off and I'm not buying that Adam James bullshit.
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really no need to bring Tech into this
they aren't worthy
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really no need to bring Tech into this
they aren't worthy
Precisely. Hence the cockroach accusation.
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Precisely. Hence the cockroach accusation.
Translated: hence the “Texas underperformed once again and we suck” accusation