CFB51 College Football Fan Community
The Power Five => Big Ten => Topic started by: medinabuckeye1 on June 20, 2018, 10:18:30 AM
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This came up in the first week thread in reference to ND.
I'll go East->West starting with the B1G-E:
Rutgers:
- 56 games, Princeton
- 45 games, Lafayette
- 44 games, Columbia
- 40 games, Syracuse
- tie 40 games, Lehigh
- 39 games, Colgate
- tie 39 games, West Virginia
- 36 games, Temple
- tie 36 games, Army
- 31 games, Connecticut
Maryland:
- 78 games, Virginia
- 70 games, North Carolina
- 69 games, North Carolina State
- 62 games, Wake Forest
- tie 62 games, Clemson
- 52 games, West Virginia
- 50 games, Duke
- 36 games, Syracuse
- 31 games, Virginia Tech
- 28 games, South Carolina
Penn State:
- 97 games, Pittsburgh
- 71 games, Syracuse
- 59 games, West Virginia
- 45 games, Temple
- 43 games, Pennsylvania
- 37 games, Navy
- 32 games, Bucknell
- 26 games, Army
- tie 26 games, Gettysburg
- 24 games, Boston College
Ohio State:
- 25 games, Pittsburgh
- 24 games, USC
- 15 games, Ohio Wesleyan
- 12 games, Missouri
- 11 games, Washington
- 9 games, Oregon
- tie 9 games, Southern Methodist
- tie 9 games, UCLA
- 8 games, Washington State
- tie 8 games, Oberlin
- tie 8 games, California
Michigan:
- 39 games, Notre Dame
- 27 games, Case
- 21 games, Pennsylvania
- 18 games, Navy
- 14 games, Cornell
- 12 games, Washington
- tie 12 games, Syracuse
- 11 games, Vanderbilt
- tie 11 games, UCLA
- 10 games, Stanford
- tie 10 games, EMU
- tie 10 games, USC
Michigan State:
- 65 games, Notre Dame
- 21 games, Marquette
- 12 games, Syracuse
- 11 games, WMU
- 10 games, Temple
- tie 10 games, CMU
- 9 games, Detroit Mercy
- tie 9 games, Wayne State
- 8 games, Missouri
- tie 8 games, Washington State
- tie 8 games, Oregon State
- tie 8 games, USC
Indiana:
- 35 games, Kentucky
- 28 games, Notre Dame
- 21 games, DePauw
- 13 games, Miami, OH
- tie 13 games, Wabash
- 12 games, Missouri
- 11 games, Cincinnati
- 9 games, Pittsburgh
- 8 games, Ball State
- 7 games, Syracuse
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Still going E->W, now the B1G-W:
Purdue:
- 86 games, Notre Dame
- 26 games, Wabash
- 24 games, DePauw
- 13 games, Miami, OH
- 10 games, Washington
- 9 games, Missouri
- 8 games, Fordham
- tie 8 games, Butler
- tie 8 games, Ohio
- tie 8 games, Ball State
Northwestern:
- 47 games, Notre Dame
- 19 games, Duke
- 17 games, Beloit
- tie 17 games, Lake Forest (Note that Lake Forest was almost a conference rival and these games were all played in that era)
- 11 games, Syracuse
- 9 games, Miami, OH
- tie 9 games, Missouri
- 8 games, Northern Illinois
- tie 8 games, Iowa State
- 7 games, Rice
- tie 7 games, Stanford
- tie 7 games, Pittsburgh
Illinois:
- 24 games, Missouri
- 13 games, USC
- 12 games, Notre Dame
- tie 12 games, Syracuse
- tie 12 games, UCLA
- 11 games, Washington
- 10 games, Stanford
- tie 10 games, California
- 9 games, Washington, MO
- tie 9 games, Butler
Wisconsin:
- 36 games, Marquette
- 18 games, Lawrence
- 16 games, Notre Dame
- 15 games, Beloit
- 13 games, Northern Illinois
- 11 games, UCLA
- 10 games, UNLV
- 9 games, SoDakSt
- 7 games, Hawaii
- tie 7 games, Iowa State
- tie 7 games, USC
Iowa:
- 60 games, Iowa State
- 24 games, Notre Dame
- 16 games, Northern Iowa
- 13 games, Arizona
- 12 games, Cornell, IA
- tie 12 games, Oregon State
- 9 games, Northern Illinois
- tie 9 games, USC
- tie 9 games, UCLA
- tie 9 games, Drake
Minnesota:
- 26 games, Iowa State
- 20 games, North Dakota
- 17 games, Washington
- 13 games, Grinnell
- 12 games, Pittsburgh
- 11 games, Ohio
- tie 11 games, South Dakota
- 9 games, Missouri
- tie 9 games, Carleton
- 8 games, NoDakSt
- tie 8 games, USC
Nebraska:
- 109 games, Kansas
- 101 games, Iowa State
- 96 games, Missouri
- 95 games, Kansas State
- 86 games, Oklahoma
- 68 games, Colorado
- 43 games, Oklahoma State
- 24 games, Pittsburgh
- 16 games, Notre Dame
- tie 16 games, South Dakota
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You are counting bowl games too I assume. Would kind of be interested to see scheduled games.
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You are counting bowl games too I assume. Would kind of be interested to see scheduled games.
It would be interesting but it would also be a lot harder to compile. I just used Stassen's "all opponent" list sorted by total number of games. It isn't perfect but it is reasonably close. Actually I was thinking that doing one for post-WWII would be interesting because it would eliminate "rivals" from a century ago that nobody cares about anymore.
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It would be interesting but it would also be a lot harder to compile. I just used Stassen's "all opponent" list sorted by total number of games. It isn't perfect but it is reasonably close. Actually I was thinking that doing one for post-WWII would be interesting because it would eliminate "rivals" from a century ago that nobody cares about anymore.
Yeah, another good point. MSU's second most common opponent is Marquette, with 21 games, but none since 1955. Their 21 meetings did all come between 1933-1955 with a 2 year was break in 1943 and 1944. So that was a legitimate annual rival...but they haven't played in 60+ years now, with Marquette dropping football in 1960 due to sadness over not playing MSU (MSC) anymore.
Marquette did play in a Cotton Bowl in the 30s.
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Yeah, another good point. MSU's second most common opponent is Marquette, with 21 games, but none since 1955. Their 21 meetings did all come between 1933-1955 with a 2 year was break in 1943 and 1944. So that was a legitimate annual rival...but they haven't played in 60+ years now, with Marquette dropping football in 1960 due to sadness over not playing MSU (MSC) anymore.
Marquette did play in a Cotton Bowl in the 30s.
What are your thoughts on my proposed cut-off of 1946? My thinking is twofold:
- WWII was a major traumatic event and a lot of things changed because of the war and it's aftermath.
- 72 years almost completely encompasses "living memory". Ie, if a school had a "major" rival more than 72 years ago almost nobody alive remembers it.
My concern is that almost any cut-off would be at least somewhat arbitrary and anyone could look at it and criticize it on that basis.
Looking at two examples:
Ohio State:
Using 1946 as the start date eliminates Ohio Wesleyan and Oberlin. Ohio State last played Wesleyan in 1932 and last played Oberlin in 1922. Both were very important rivals in the early, pre-conference era of Ohio State football but since the Buckeyes started competing in the Western Conference in 1913 these rivalries have been largely irrelevant. Also, 1922 was 96 years ago and even 1932 was 86 years ago it is unlikely that more than a handful of people have any recollection of Ohio State games against those teams.
Michigan State:
Using 1946 as the start date eliminates Detroit Mercy and Wayne State. Detroit Mercy was an annual rival from 1927-1934 during which time the Spartans went only 2-5-1 against them then there was one more game in 1960 which MSU won. MSU played Wayne State almost every year from 1936-1946 (all but 40 and 43) and went 9-0 against them.
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This came up in the first week thread in reference to ND.
Ohio State:
- 25 games, Pittsburgh
- 24 games, USC
- 15 games, Ohio Wesleyan
- 12 games, Missouri
- 11 games, Washington
- 9 games, Oregon
- tie 9 games, Southern Methodist
- tie 9 games, UCLA
- 8 games, Washington State
- tie 8 games, Oberlin
- tie 8 games, California
These numbers are very wrong.
http://grfx.cstv.com/schools/osu/graphics/pdf/m-footbl/17guide/2017FBMediaGuide_240-281_All-TimeResults.pdf
They've played Ohio Wesleyan 29 times and Oberlin 26 times.
If we are counting D3, then they've played Kenyon 23 times, Otterbein 18 times, Denison 17 times, Case Tech 23 times, Western Reserve 11 times (combined 34 for Case Western), Wittenberg 15 times, Wooster and Marietta 8 times each...
They've also played D1 Cincinnati 16 times. I think your source must only keep track of OSU's opponents after joining the Big Ten, which doesn't seem to be the case for the other noobs.
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Notre Dame is on the list 9 times. Syracuse and Missouri both show up on 8 of these lists.
Should frequency of conference play be consideration for acquisition?
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Stassen only counts games where both teams are upper-division, I believe.
Secondly, Nebraska's "OOC" games against Kansas really weren't OOC. Same goes for Maryland/Virginia, etc.
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Notre Dame is on the list 9 times. Syracuse and Missouri both show up on 8 of these lists.
Should frequency of conference play be consideration for acquisition?
I don't want any of those teams, so by reverse reasoning from my preferred conclusion...
...no.
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I can just picture Rutgers vs Princeton as being the only game of football for 56 years, lol.
Was Oho St vs Pitt ever a thing? Seems like it could be.
Case???
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I can just picture Rutgers vs Princeton as being the only game of football for 56 years, lol.
Was Oho St vs Pitt ever a thing? Seems like it could be.
Case???
I recall OSU and Pitt playing a couple times in maybe the late 90s. They were not good games.
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OSU is 19-5-1 vs Pitt. They played every year but one from 1940-54, and most recently played a four game series from 1993-96.
The OSU-WV series is probably a little higher than the OP indicates, as they played a few times during the omitted portion of OSU's history. Kentucky too.
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I'm surprised OSU and WVU haven't played more.
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I'm surprised OSU and WVU haven't played more.
I can't think of a game that would be the absolute disaster that Ohio State travelling to Morgantown would be
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It'd be fun to watch.
Not sure about the game though.
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Stassen only counts games where both teams are upper-division, I believe.
Secondly, Nebraska's "OOC" games against Kansas really weren't OOC. Same goes for Maryland/Virginia, etc.
It is a little bit more complicated than that. Stassen counts games were the team queried was upper division (by their definition which is a bit ambiguous). Thus, for example, if you look at Ohio State's opponents you find:
- 102 games, Illinois, 69-30-3
- 101 games, Michigan, 50-47-4
But when you instead query Illinois and Michigan then look at games against Ohio State you get:
Illinois, vs Ohio State:
Michigan, vs Ohio State:
So Ohio State had a tie against Illinois when Ohio State was not "upper division". Similarly, Ohio State had 11 losses and two ties with against Michigan when Ohio State was not "upper division".
The real oddity of it is that according to Stassen Ohio State has a winning record against Michigan (50-47-4 in 101 games) and Michigan has a winning record against Ohio State (58-50-6 in 114 games).
Obviously Nebraska's "OOC" games against Kansas were not OOC when played but I was looking at not currently in conference.
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Really wish ftbobs would have come through for us. We gave him everything he wanted and needed, except for the ultimate desire on his end, I guess.
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It'd be fun to watch on TV.
Not sure about the game though.
Fixed it for you
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Was Oho St vs Pitt ever a thing? Seems like it could be.
Case???
RE tOSU vs Pitt: It seems like either the two teams were not good at the same time very often or they didn't play when they were.
In the first four games Pitt led 2-1-1 which is pretty competitive. Those were spread out over eight years from 1929-1936.
After that they played every year for 13 years from 1940-1952 then skipped a year and played again in 1954. In those 14 games Ohio State went 12-2.
Then they didn't play for 30 years.
Then Ohio State beat Pitt in the 1984 (1983 season) Fiesta Bowl.
Since then they have played six games (three at each school's home field). In those six Ohio State is 5-1. The loss and four of the five wins were blowouts with only Ohio State's win in 1985 being close.
Case is a school in the Cleveland area. In the VERY early days of college football they were a powerful team at least in Ohio.
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Nebraska's can be found here, easily
https://www.huskermax.com/allthegames.html (https://www.huskermax.com/allthegames.html)
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These numbers are very wrong.
http://grfx.cstv.com/schools/osu/graphics/pdf/m-footbl/17guide/2017FBMediaGuide_240-281_All-TimeResults.pdf
They've played Ohio Wesleyan 29 times and Oberlin 26 times.
If we are counting D3, then they've played Kenyon 23 times, Otterbein 18 times, Denison 17 times, Case Tech 23 times, Western Reserve 11 times (combined 34 for Case Western), Wittenberg 15 times, Wooster and Marietta 8 times each...
They've also played D1 Cincinnati 16 times. I think your source must only keep track of OSU's opponents after joining the Big Ten, which doesn't seem to be the case for the other noobs.
I knew when I posted and I guess I should have clarified that the source, Stassen omits portions of history when the queried team was not "upper division". With ftbobs site no longer available I don't know where to go to get numbers like what you listed other than to look at each school's ancient history individually and I'm just not going to spend that much time on it.
Aside from that, Ohio State's number of pre-leather-helmet games against schools that no longer exist, have merged with others, are no longer playing football, or are no longer playing D1 football is largely irrelevant, IMHO. Still, I should have clarified the limitations in the OP.
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Fixed it for you
I'd like to be there, at a safe distance.
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Aside from that, Ohio State's number of pre-leather-helmet games....
I have a book about OSU FB in the Nineteenth Century, and they had a player that was concerned that he'd cut his hair too short, and it wouldn't provide enough padding!
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Here's the last OSU @ WV game.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-JbznViil3I
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aRDmZbX1oOM