CFB51 College Football Fan Community
The Power Five => Big Ten => Topic started by: OrangeAfroMan on June 19, 2018, 07:17:37 PM
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View results after voting.
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must be a Big Ten Board...
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I went with Timmy.
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I was a homer..
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The first college football player I loved was Desmond. The next was Tommie.
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must be a Big Ten Board...
I'm sure everyone is being objective and could support their choice if pressed. :57:
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I'm sure everyone is being objective and could support their choice if pressed. :57:
I'm not being objective, as I'm obviously a Purdue homer... But I can still defend the choice.
Tebow and Frazier had great supporting casts around them. Great offensive lines, great running backs, great defenses, great receivers, etc. Brees had none of that, and he still terrorized opposing teams like no other. He made the entire team around him better.
Now, I will grant that he had a pretty great OL in front of him. But his receiving talent was marginal, the RB talent was marginal, he was forced to win games coming from behind because the defense put him there.
You put Tim Tebow or Tommy Frazier on those Purdue teams, I don't know if they can perform like he did without all that supporting talent around them. We know Brees was capable, because he did it.
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agreed
Brees production was enhanced by a poor defense and coming from behind
Tommie often sat out the 4th quarter or more - Tommie's receiver talent was not good, but they could block. Tommie had RB talent in spdes and they took away from his touches and numbers
Dropping Tommie in the Brees offense would have been about as bad as dropping Brees in Tommie's offense - not easy to compare
both great college QBs and both better than Timmy - hah
that was for OrangeAfro
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both great college QBs and both better than Timmy - hah
Don't sell Timmy short!
Best fullback to ever wear #15, IMHO.
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How many fullbacks had the 4th-highest career passing efficiency of all-time?
Tommie fails in Drew's offense.
Drew fails in Tommie's offense.
Which QB could excel in both? :67:
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I'm not being objective, as I'm obviously a Purdue homer... But I can still defend the choice.
Tebow and Frazier had great supporting casts around them.
I get your point - it's similar to the Elway point on the other thread. But by that thinking, the Heisman winner should never come from an elite team....which is the exact opposite of who actually wins the thing.
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How many fullbacks had the 4th-highest career passing efficiency of all-time?
Tommie fails in Drew's offense.
Drew fails in Tommie's offense.
Which QB could excel in both? :67:
Chris Leak?
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Mike Vick?
Randall Cunningham?
Steve Young?
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Which of the above 3 choices......???
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all 3 could do very well
I'd take Steve Young.
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Bastage :96:
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I went Tebow. Beyond all the hype, his production/efficiency was just bonkers.
Three good options with long resumes.
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How many fullbacks had the 4th-highest career passing efficiency of all-time?
Tommie fails in Drew's offense.
Drew fails in Tommie's offense.
Which QB could excel in both? :67:
Turner Gill...
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Turner Gill...
Tim Tebow.
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Which QB could excel in both?
Troy Smith. :)
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Robert Griffin III
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Troy Smith. :)
He wore #10.
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Robert Griffin III
He wore #10.
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Turner Gill...
He wore #12.
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yes... I know. I will color within the lines from now on... ;)
btw.. marcus mariota could have also ran both systems.... :88:
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I would have thought you'd have learned to color between the lines at UChicago. :57:
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:96::57::).... I actually laughed out loud. Nicely done
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Hey man, I didn't have to go to grad school for that shit. That was junior year in Madison.
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was that the 4th time you took your junior year or 5th? =)
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10 years total. You tell me. I always thought I was a senior for 7 years.
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all joking aside.. I had a classmate who lived across the hall from me my first year at Chicago.... he was a "4th Year" but had attended school for 6 years (he was there for his 7th). Not the cheapest University to attend for 7 years. He had switched his major 4 times which caused the "delays". I know he graduated and at that time he told me he was taking a few years off to travel and discover himself. He was extremely smart and a wiz with computers and programming... but literally was a zero on the motivation scale.
btw... Charlie Ward could have run both offenses.
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I have a niece who just graduated from U Washington with a degree in art history. She lives in the PHX area and could have gone to ASU or whatever for an art history degree. Or even stayed home and read a bunch of books.
But no.
My brother in law enabled that shit. No F'in way on my watch. But hey, she's got a degree.
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I'm not sure what I'm going to do when my kids get to that age.... I have mixed emotions about quality of education and value for the price.
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I'd make them work a shit job for shit money and tell them if they don't like working a shit job for shit money, they need to get a degree in something that will allow them to gain a great job for great money.
I'm paying engineer interns, right out of school (two this year), $75K/year plus 1.5 OT.
You ain't getting that with a BA in art history.
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I don't disagree about the degree and where you attend school. If you want to be a HS teacher (and nothing wrong with that), going to Harvard would be a waste of money, imo.
I was thinking of more general terms.... Are you better off attending Harvard or Rutgers? Does it matter? There is prestige involved, but at what point do the costs make Harvard a bad choice (regardless of degree)? Do a large extent, college is what you make of it.. so is the debt worth it?
I would say for me it was worth it. Doors were opened that would have been closed at UNL. But that was 20+ yrs ago. And prices continue to climb at rates well beyond inflation. Maybe the current answer is... it depends upon your major. But 10 years from now?
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btw... Charlie Ward could have run both offenses.
I could understand a UChicago grad making this post, but not one that grew up a Husker fan as well. Inexplicable, explainable, horrible.
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I don't disagree about the degree and where you attend school. If you want to be a HS teacher (and nothing wrong with that), going to Harvard would be a waste of money, imo.
I was thinking of more general terms.... Are you better off attending Harvard or Rutgers? Does it matter? There is prestige involved, but at what point do the costs make Harvard a bad choice (regardless of degree)? Do a large extent, college is what you make of it.. so is the debt worth it?
I would say for me it was worth it. Doors were opened that would have been closed at UNL. But that was 20+ yrs ago. And prices continue to climb at rates well beyond inflation. Maybe the current answer is... it depends upon your major. But 10 years from now?
That's the issue. It's been too expensive for a generation now, but for some, if you did it right, was still worth it, because it opened doors. Now, you still need it to open those doors, but even at that, it puts you in such a hole, that's it's no longer worth it. Absent a bunch of scholarships or parents rich neough to pay it, I don't get it. But still without it, you'll almost certainly work a shit job. The days of being able to prove yourself and work your way up if willing to put in the time are over. My brother in law didn't go to college, has worked for years as a bank teller. Is trusted, leaned upon, and reliable. But has been told there is zero room for growth unless he goes back to school. Even to get to middle management, no shot without a degree. But he's 33, so now he's stuck. He can't really support a family being a bank teller, but to even be the manager of a single bank branch he needs to go back to school...and take on tens of thousands of dollars in debt, to what? Maybe be considered for one level of promotion. He's stuck.
I don't know what the right thing to do is.
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I was thinking of more general terms.... Are you better off attending Harvard or Rutgers? Does it matter? There is prestige involved, but at what point do the costs make Harvard a bad choice (regardless of degree)? Do a large extent, college is what you make of it.. so is the debt worth it?
I remember a study I read years ago where they were trying to correlate future economic success with choice of college.
What they actually found was that the correlation was with where you APPLIED to college. Didn't matter whether you were even accepted, or where you attended. It was all about where you applied.
I.e. if you thought you were good enough to get into Harvard and applied there as well as Rutgers, it didn't matter if you went to Harvard or Rutgers. If you went to Rutgers you'd end up just as successful as the guy who attended Harvard but applied to Rutgers merely as his fallback.
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In my community college district, there are 8000 manufacturing jobs open and they can't be filled due to a lack of trained people. These are $50-60K/year jobs.
Guess where one could obtain the training and gain a 1 year certificate or AAS degree for $5K to $10K tops?
If you guessed "at the community college" you would be correct.
Much better than fighting for $15/hr to flip burgers, no?
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In my community college district, there are 8000 manufacturing jobs open and they can't be filled due to a lack of trained people. These are $50-60K/year jobs.
Guess where one could obtain the training and gain a 1 year certificate or AAS degree for $5K to $10K tops?
If you guessed "at the community college" you would be correct.
Much better than fighting for $15/hr to flip burgers, no?
Closer to half that
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Closer to half that
Not here in Illinois and other silly places like it (read into that what you will). The $15/hour mandate is going to be real, and soon, as it already is in some places.
Of course, leadership doesn't have the foresight to understand that paying Micky D's employees $15/hr is gonna make the Big Mac cost $10/each, thereby making it still unaffordable for those making $15/hr. Furthermore, they are oblivious to the fact that all of these places are testing out self-ordering kiosks and stuff... eliminating those jobs with a preemptive strike...
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In industries that have trouble finding someone, does the school even matter? Moreover, do people really even have a clear hierarchy of schools that aren't in the immediate area? We all know Harvard, Princeton, etc....but would someone hiring me in Arizona know the difference between the University of Florida vs South Florida vs Southern New Hampshire.com?
Get the magical piece of paper as cheaply as possible.
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yes... I know. I will color within the lines from now on... ;)
btw.. marcus mariota could have also ran both systems.... :88:
This reminded me of someone else who would be decent in both systems and is sort of in-the-news-adjacent: Jeremiah Masoli. I believe he left Oregon as a grad transfer to Ole Miss.....or it could be the other way around. Anyway, he's the starter for the CFL team Johnny Manziel is on now. He was pretty good.
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yes... I know. I will color within the lines from now on... ;)
btw.. marcus mariota could have also ran both systems.... :88:
and Cam Newton
the money taking cheater
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Tebow's backup!
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I do so enjoy when we fall into this tangent. We all kind of agree, but still have a lot of room for interesting discussion.
I was discussing a similar point on another board. Basically that after WWII, college boomed in part becuase of a bloom in white collar work, which also has the advantage of being better on the body than a lot of blue collar jobs. But we swung so far that way, that blue collar trades have become under supplied and now highly valued (even as a lot of skilled blue collar factory work has disappeared). I still think college provides a lot of prep for general white collar work, but it’s not as direct.
The example I use is a friend who got a kind of esoteric degree and a year or two of grad school. He fell into the non-profit world, got assigned to a department where he learned an in-demand piece of software and could now get a six-figure job. I think a lot of the skills that allowed him so succeed were learned at school (maybe not grad school), but the cost-benefit could certainly be debated.
We have colleges themselves being treated primarily as vocational, even when they’re designed to also have an academic mission, which I think can be good, but people who work there often delve WAY too much into.
On the Memorial Day thread, I talked about this a little, but I think the shift from military to college is an interesting social one. I think college has the benefit that you get four years where minor missteps don’t hurt as much and people learn to adult with some structure. Basically, I think most 18-22 year olds are idiots and college is a nice bridge while you get your stuff together. In the past, the military provided that structure for many, at least men. But we’ve shifted from that world being a paying job (admittedly with a lot of risks), to something we pay for.