CFB51 College Football Fan Community
The Power Five => Big Ten => Topic started by: Kris60 on March 27, 2024, 07:01:07 AM
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I’m wondering where the balance is in that attitude and making youth sports more important they are. My daughter is now playing HS softball. A couple nights ago we lost 1-0 in a game where we only got one hit and struck out as a team 16 times.
What struck me was how many times after those strikeouts our girls would run back to the dugout smiling and start joking with their teammates. I don’t want them running back to the dugout bawling but I didn’t love the look of them smiling and laughing after strikeouts either.
Our last at bat we had a runner on first and two out. The kid at bat flailed wildly at a pitch at her eyes and turned around with a smile on her face and said to her teammates, “Oops. That wasn’t good.” This prompted one dad (not her dad) to say “Keep smiling, Anna!” The next pitch she struck out to end the game which garnered another smile, a shrug of the shoulders, and saying, “I just can’t hit today.”
I’ll be honest. I wanted to strangle her. I want a high school softball game to have its proper place but I need more of a competitive spirit than that. Not sure my daughter’s team is finding that middle ground right now.
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One thing I learned about "Fantasy Camp", which basically is "baseball for old folks who shouldn't be playing baseball", is the level of competition and intensity. It's somehow spot on target, for me. We're all trying to do our best, none of us would smile after a K, we get after it. But we also appreciate a great play by an opponent.
This past year I was pitching and the first batter swatter one hard down the line in LF for a triple. I was backing up third, and told him "Nice hit". I wasn't smiling, I didn't high five him, and I understand some of these 30 year olds are simply a LOT better than I am (duh). I somehow magically stranded him at third.
I used to coach a lot of rec level sports, and I think I "overdid" it some on the intensity side at times. But none of my players then would be smiling after a screw up. It was "Get'em next time.".
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When I played sports, it was not fun unless we were winning.
"Fun is winning, and winning is fun."
- Ozzie Guillen
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What struck me was how many times after those strikeouts our girls would run back to the dugout smiling and start joking with their teammates. I don’t want them running back to the dugout bawling but I didn’t love the look of them smiling and laughing after strikeouts either.
I’ll be honest. I wanted to strangle her. I want a high school softball game to have its proper place but I need more of a competitive spirit than that. Not sure my daughter’s team is finding that middle ground right now.
IMO that social mind set was creeping in for a while - "the participation trophy" if you will. Since it is a game and amateur one at that especially in female school TEAM sports where evidently they smile at success and failure. Perhaps it's a gentle,juvenile psycholgical weapon to reason away personal failure as to not damage a delicate ego(I'm not being sarcastic). In male sports or at least the coaches I grew up with would have a that guy smiling on the bench - and there were plenty of replacements.
I wonder if you see that attitude in non team sports with that same person where personal accountability would stand out? Like tennis,golf I wouldn't advise fencing for her. She'll have devise a different mental approach if she plans on being successful later on in business or in Health care for instance. Where an "oopsie" with a patient could get one dead and herself sued
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it's a tough balance for girl's sports
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I’m interested in what you were feeling when you wanted to “strangle” a kid that it doesn’t sound like is your daughter. I know that was said for effect, but it might say something about how you’re taking this in.
I guess I would say this, it’s on the coach to provide that seriousness. It’s on the parent to provide reasonable support (a difficult middle ground in its own right). If it becomes a theme, maybe see if others are bothered by it. If it turns out this program is just lackadaisical, I guess it depends how your daughter feels about it. As much as sports can impart life lessons, there’s also a chance for kids to play a game and hang out with their friends. The depth and intensity depends so much on the people and frankly the team quality.
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K60 is a competitive guy. He expects more. It's OK to expect more.
In my days, second/third place trophies went in the trash, or I simply wouldn't accept them.
I'd make an exception for a state runner up trophy, but never had that chance.
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I am recalling my daughter's HS softball team back in the day. The opposing pitching was remarkably good, usually, and we'd often be "no hit". My daughter was a very good athlete but couldn't hit most of the pitching (nor could I). They probably finished the year something like 2-14 or so, I don't recall anyone being cheerful about losing or playing poorly. They realized they were over matched, but played as best they could.
She still has a good arm, I throw with her when we're together.
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K60 is a competitive guy. He expects more. It's OK to expect more.
In my days, second/third place trophies went in the trash, or I simply wouldn't accept them.
I don't know I'd throw out runner up trophies even though we would have won 1st prize at a county fair demolition derby. But got eliminated for having cement in the doors of an old Coup De Ville
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I’m interested in what you were feeling when you wanted to “strangle” a kid that it doesn’t sound like is your daughter. I know that was said for effect, but it might say something about how you’re taking this in.
I guess I would say this, it’s on the coach to provide that seriousness. It’s on the parent to provide reasonable support (a difficult middle ground in its own right). If it becomes a theme, maybe see if others are bothered by it. If it turns out this program is just lackadaisical, I guess it depends how your daughter feels about it. As much as sports can impart life lessons, there’s also a chance for kids to play a game and hang out with their friends. The depth and intensity depends so much on the people and frankly the team quality.
Well, yeah, “strangle” was definitely meant for effect. I think for me it was a culmination of seeing a lot of kids having that attitude and then ending the game with a strikeout and seemingly not caring. I want my kids to have fun playing a sport, but I also want them to win. I want them to have teammates who want to win. It was weird. They have played 5 games now with varying success (2-3) but that’s the first time I’ve seen a lot of smiles after strikeouts.
I also wonder if that’s a defense mechanism. Maybe she had to laugh so she wouldn’t cry. No one wants to strike out to end a game that you could have possibly been the hero of. Idk.
I asked my daughter after the game what the coach said and she said she got on them pretty good. Not for smiling or laughing necessarily but just not being locked in. She was constantly telling them to lay off high pitches, but they continued to swing at them. Then they would just watch strikes go by. Not always understanding the count, either. Had a couple instances where kids were taking borderline pitches with two strikes and then swinging at crap when they were ahead in the count.
Just wanted to hear my some different perspectives. I know this is the counter to the parents screaming at their kids and umpires, and players fighting each other, but there should be a middle ground there.
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it's a tough balance for girl's sports
even tougher for girls sports now that men with dicks can put on a wig call themselves Lia and dominate women in sports
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I had two daughters that both played multiple sports in HS. Both were state champion power lifters, played volleyball and ran track. The oldest was an all state sprinter her junior and senior year. She was also the kind of person that wanted to kick your ass if it was a competition weather it be sprinting or playing checkers.
My youngest daughter was actually stronger than her older sister, but only won the state power lifting title once compared to my oldest that won all four years (different weight classes). The youngest was also a better volleyball player than the older but did not have the same success in track. My youngest was more even keeled playing sports. While she desperately wanted to win, when the game was over, she was right back to the same, kind hearted girl as she was prior to the game. She was more likely to strike up conversation with the other team in an attempt to make friends were my older would just have to walk away to keep from fighting.
My oldest also got into trouble with her volleyball coach her junior year as she was getting on other players for being out of position and not hustling during play. The VB coach seemed that she just wanted the girls to be pretty and nice and playing VB was secondary. It caused my oldest to not want to play her senior year until the school hired a new coach.
As a parent, it was hard watching this unfold. I wanted to stick up for my daughter to the coach, but didn't want to be "that guy" that was the one yelling and making a fool of themselves as I was also a member of the School Board. So I mostly sat in silence during the games. I did approach the AD about the coaches attitude, but I think it mostly fell on deaf ears.
Both girls also played JO VB which meant that they were playing on teams full of girls that were very good and played to win. They had the most fun there.
From all of this I came the conclusion that in school sports, and especially at small schools such as the ones my kids attended, girls took a different attitude towards games than the boys did. A lot of girls just wanted to be part of the team, wear the uniform and hang with the other girls. Winning was secondary to that. It's been 15 years since my oldest graduated HS and I see some of her former teammates from time to time. Most of them are very well adjusted, successful and appear to be happily married. So in the end, did their attitudes toward sports really matter? I don't think so.
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I actually think the level of sports at my oldest's age (about to turn 11) is WAY higher on the girls side. I think it's because parents just keep signing their sons up for sports, but they are old enough that there isn't that stigma for girls, so the ones who still play, take it very seriously. For our in house basketball season, there were just 3 girls teams, but 7 boys teams, and half of those boys were uncoordinated and looked like they didn't want to be there. The girls in house teams were so much better, because the 24 girls that filled out those rosters were all athletic, and loved it.
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When I played sports, it was not fun unless we were winning.
"Fun is winning, and winning is fun."
- Ozzie Guillen
In applying this to the smiling strikeout victim, you have to be good at a sport in order to have the expectation of success, which upsets you when it's not met.
That girl simply didn't think she'd succeed. And she was right.
Athletes get pissy when they expect to win, based on being talented, and fail to do so.
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Throw 'em a little chin music.
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Well, yeah, “strangle” was definitely meant for effect. I think for me it was a culmination of seeing a lot of kids having that attitude and then ending the game with a strikeout and seemingly not caring. I want my kids to have fun playing a sport, but I also want them to win. I want them to have teammates who want to win. It was weird. They have played 5 games now with varying success (2-3) but that’s the first time I’ve seen a lot of smiles after strikeouts.
I also wonder if that’s a defense mechanism. Maybe she had to laugh so she wouldn’t cry. No one wants to strike out to end a game that you could have possibly been the hero of. Idk.
I asked my daughter after the game what the coach said and she said she got on them pretty good. Not for smiling or laughing necessarily but just not being locked in. She was constantly telling them to lay off high pitches, but they continued to swing at them. Then they would just watch strikes go by. Not always understanding the count, either. Had a couple instances where kids were taking borderline pitches with two strikes and then swinging at crap when they were ahead in the count.
Just wanted to hear my some different perspectives. I know this is the counter to the parents screaming at their kids and umpires, and players fighting each other, but there should be a middle ground there.
That makes sense.
I used to have a job that had me around sports. My general rule of thumb, I hope is.
The coach is there to coach
Parents are there to encourage/guide their kid (so if your kid isn't trying or focused, fine to get on them, but also good to avoid being a wannabe coach)
And when it comes to someone else's kid, often that annoyance has to be sort of pressed down. It's on the coach to fix that.
(Now I also don't know a bunch of dynamics with the team/history/opponent. Like how many serious travel players there are and such. That probably effects things)
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K60 is a competitive guy. He expects more. It's OK to expect more.
In my days, second/third place trophies went in the trash, or I simply wouldn't accept them.
I'd make an exception for a state runner up trophy, but never had that chance.
As I kind of said, for better or worse, when you go down the road of expecting things from someone else's kid, you likely get in trouble. It's on a coach to straighten it out. And while a parent may feel competitive, a parent is not competing. They're observing and rooting for a team and parenting their own.
It's funny about the trophies because in the end, trophies are mostly about adults and not kids. Adults control the flow of them and such. Some adults aren't adult enough to set boundaries (like the situation when a sibling is given a gift on a birthday so they don't feel left out). Then again, a lot of real competitors don't care much for their actual trophies. One of UW's finest products was part of arguably the greatest sports moment in American history. You know where his medal is? Some box in the garage.
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Throw 'em a little chin music.
Mudcat Grant use to say that when he called the Indians games in the '70s with Harry Jones it was like watching a game with buddies nobody gave a crap how accurate announcers were because the Indians were so bad for so long no one really paid attention as they were too busy reaching for another beer - good times.
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(https://i.imgur.com/WL6ieOZ.png)
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As I kind of said, for better or worse, when you go down the road of expecting things from someone else's kid, you likely get in trouble. It's on a coach to straighten it out. And while a parent may feel competitive, a parent is not competing. They're observing and rooting for a team and parenting their own.
It's funny about the trophies because in the end, trophies are mostly about adults and not kids. Adults control the flow of them and such. Some adults aren't adult enough to set boundaries (like the situation when a sibling is given a gift on a birthday so they don't feel left out). Then again, a lot of real competitors don't care much for their actual trophies. One of UW's finest products was part of arguably the greatest sports moment in American history. You know where his medal is? Some box in the garage.
Miracle on Ice?
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THOUGHT OF THE DAY:
"Winning isn’t everything, but wanting to win is." - Vince Lombardi
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Miracle on Ice?
Well it certainly wasn't Chelios' 1998 captaincy
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That was not a good roster, nor a good head coach.
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THOUGHT OF THE DAY:
"Winning isn’t everything, but wanting to win is." - Vince Lombardi
hating to lose > wanting to win
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I think we'd all agree there is a balance, and it's often parents who overdo it, not the kids. I overdid it too often back in the day, not to some dramatic extent, but more than I'd do now.
If a kid strikes out, it's easy enough to look at least neutral, not giddy though.