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The Power Five => SEC => Topic started by: Cincydawg on October 29, 2023, 10:27:28 AM

Title: Week 10 Games as the season enters the home stretch
Post by: Cincydawg on October 29, 2023, 10:27:28 AM

Saturday, November 4, 2023

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Notes

Title: Re: Week 10 Games as the season enters the home stretch
Post by: Cincydawg on October 29, 2023, 10:30:27 AM

The headliner is LSU-Bama of course but Mizzou at UGA takes on more import than expected.  Florida is in a basic must win situation, and probably will.

Ole Miss needs to keep their hopes alive vs A&M before their visit to UGA.

Though Bama continues to look mortal, I still favor them in the West.  UGA faces their stretch run now with the two home games before the visit to Knoxville.  The good news for them, so far, is that the offense didn't obviously miss Bowers in that one game.

Title: Re: Week 10 Games as the season enters the home stretch
Post by: gymvol on October 29, 2023, 05:12:35 PM

We will see how Missouri does against Georgia to find out if TN has a chance at Mizzou. 

If the TN secondary isn't any better against either of them than they were at KY expect two loses. I don't think Georgia has any worry about TN the secondary is the weak spot and they'll pick it apar unless drastic changes are made.   Willie Martinez needs to go the TN secondary is terrible and hasn't improved under him. They are lucky to get out of Lexington with a win and only have two loses

Ole Miss will put another nail in Jimbo's coffin and we'll see at the end of this season if A&M can find wiggle room to get out of his contract. 

LSU will find out like everyone else you can't go to Tuscaloosa and win a ball game it just isn't permitted. 

Title: Re: Week 10 Games as the season enters the home stretch
Post by: MikeDeTiger on October 29, 2023, 06:32:05 PM

I think if UGA shuts down Mizzou at 2:30 then LSU should just forfeit.  I'll probably watch something else.  World Series might still be going.  

Title: Re: Week 10 Games as the season enters the home stretch
Post by: MikeDeTiger on October 30, 2023, 11:34:52 AM

Wonder if we'll get an rtf4 sighting this week.

Title: Re: Week 10 Games as the season enters the home stretch
Post by: MikeDeTiger on October 30, 2023, 01:19:41 PM

Mizzou @ UGA -- tickets starting at $173.16

LSU @ Bama -- tickets starting at $160.00

Winning a couple of NCs has made the Dawgs a little bit uppity.  

Title: Re: Week 10 Games as the season enters the home stretch
Post by: Cincydawg on October 30, 2023, 01:28:17 PM

I feel pretty uppity these days myself, could probably use a come downer, but wouldn't be prudent.  Mizzou common opponents and results with UGA:

@Vandy  Mizzou won 38-21   UGA won 37-20
USCe   Mizzou won 34-12  UGA won 24-14
@UK    Mizzou won 38-21  UGA won 51-13 (at home)

We all know syllogism doesn't work, but it does rhyme.  Pretty similar performances though, but UGA is a 16.5 point favorite.  UGA doesn't have any wins over ranked opponents.  Folks may be thinking the Florida outcome is meaningful and perhaps it really isn't that much.

Title: Re: Week 10 Games as the season enters the home stretch
Post by: MikeDeTiger on October 30, 2023, 01:55:26 PM

Much like UK/UT last week, I don't have a good read on LSU/Bama.  Don't know who will win, but here's my thoughts so far. 

It's strength on strength and weakness on weakness.  LSU's offense has been very good, so has Alabama's defense.  Alabama's offense has been poor, so has LSU's defense.  Whichever one of those things winds up being the bigger disparity probably decides who wins, and unfortunately I suspect the Tiger defense is worse than Alabama's offense, moreso than the discrepancy between the Tiger's offense and Alabama's defense.  IMO, the Tide are rightly favored.

That said, I think LSU can win the game, but the offense would have to have everything go well.  First key will be standing up to Alabama's pass rush.  That includes the OL not being overwhelmed and Daniels correctly diagnosing the blitzes and coverages most of the time.  No matter how good an offense is, the sure-fire way to put the brakes on it is to dominate the OL.  It will be interesting to see if Alabama can do that since LSU's OL has probably been the best in the league thus far.  Alabama has done it before to LSU.  otoh, if LSU's OL holds up most of the time, it will be nearly impossible to stop LSU from moving the ball.  Alabama has the DBs to redirect LSU WRs off the line some and try to jam up the timing, but on the whole, if there's any time to operate and Daniels doesn't have the yips, I'm not sure you can stop this offense.  Question is, can LSU hit 40 on a defense like this?  However good they've been, that's a tough ask.  But they probably need to in order to have any chance of winning. 

Because on the other side is LSU's defense.  Whatever problems Alabama has had on offense are about to look like they got fixed overnight, almost as if by magic.  We're down our best DT and there's not a single cornerback left for this game that we snagged from the portal to fill the leaky roster O left us with...they've all been injured or suspended.  That leaves us trotting out the true freshman from this past recruiting cycle.  The sad thing is I'm not sure it even matters.  The guys we had earlier in the season were getting Moss'd by Grambling's WRs in game 2.  I mean, think about that.  Burton is going to have a field day against this crew, but I don't think it would've been any better without the attrition.  Losing the DT may be a problem, but again, this defense has been so bad that it's hard to say it really matters.  I don't think LSU can stop Burton on the long balls, I don't think they can stop McClellan on the ground, and I don't think they can stop Bama from putting up 40 at home. 

QB health is paramount also, and Alabama has an edge here as well.  Alabama can still win if something happens to Milroe.  LSU has zero chance if something happens to Daniels. 

Special teams favors Bama.  We're on par in most phases, but Bama definitely has the better FG kicker (btw, congrats to Will Reichard for becoming the SEC's all-time leading scorer a few weeks ago).

My guess is Bama wins and covers easily.  LSU's OL has to grind all game, Daniels has to be on fire, the WRs can't have any drops, and nobody can have any TOs, and that's just for LSU to have a chance.  A great defense at home can probably stop the Tigers more than the Tigers will be able to stop Bama.  Despite the fact this LSU offense is on par with 2019's offense through 8 games, the 2019 offense was historic because they rolled right through Alabama and Clemson, and other stout defenses.  This team faltered in the second half against FSU, the last DL they saw with comparable talent to Alabama's front.  Too much has to go right for LSU to score enough points to have a chance.  otoh, Bama needs to show up and not fumble to score on just about every drive. 

Bama 41
LSU 24

Title: Re: Week 10 Games as the season enters the home stretch
Post by: MikeDeTiger on October 30, 2023, 02:06:09 PM

lolz, jk

Alabama is going to hit at least 45, probably 50-something. 

They score 30.6 per game, LSU's defense is good for 20 pt. bump in the average.  

Title: Re: Week 10 Games as the season enters the home stretch
Post by: rolltidefan on October 30, 2023, 02:09:09 PM

Quote from: MikeDeTiger on October 30, 2023, 11:34:52 AM

Wonder if we'll get an rtf4 sighting this week.

probably not

Title: Re: Week 10 Games as the season enters the home stretch
Post by: rolltidefan on October 30, 2023, 02:17:12 PM

Quote from: MikeDeTiger on October 30, 2023, 01:19:41 PM

Mizzou @ UGA -- tickets starting at $173.16

LSU @ Bama -- tickets starting at $160.00

Winning a couple of NCs has made the Dawgs a little bit uppity. 

speaking of uppity, one of my clients offered me tickets in a skybox for the lsu game. i get to pretend i'm worth something for a few hrs.

as for the game itself, bama is a team of 2 halves. guessing we'll both own 1. i'll feel more comfortable making a comeback than holding on for dear life. but i have no real read on this team.

Title: Re: Week 10 Games as the season enters the home stretch
Post by: Cincydawg on October 30, 2023, 02:26:48 PM

RTF!!!

Title: Re: Week 10 Games as the season enters the home stretch
Post by: MikeDeTiger on October 30, 2023, 03:23:24 PM

I had been pretty excited for the Mizzou @ UGA game, but the point spread makes me think this probably won't be as interesting as I was hoping. 

Still will be interested to see what LB3 can do against the Bulldog defense, tho. 

Title: Re: Week 10 Games as the season enters the home stretch
Post by: MikeDeTiger on October 30, 2023, 03:25:41 PM

I'm pretty confident Florida is going to get their bowl eligibility win vs. Arkansas. 

Looking at the rest of their schedule--@LSU, @Mizzou, FSU--they could fall off a cliff after that. 

Most likely win there might be against an LSU team demoralized after a Bama loss.  But even that doesn't seem exactly likely.  

Title: Re: Week 10 Games as the season enters the home stretch
Post by: Cincydawg on October 30, 2023, 03:43:49 PM

Quote from: MikeDeTiger on October 30, 2023, 03:23:24 PM

I had been pretty excited for the Mizzou @ UGA game, but the point spread makes me think this probably won't be as interesting as I was hoping. 

Still will be interested to see what LB3 can do against the Bulldog defense, tho. 

The Dawg D is not as stout as in the past couple of years of course.  The back end is pretty solid, the LBs are decent, I think the DL misses a nose  tackle able to soak up blocks.  The gave up 20 to Florida of all folks.

Title: Re: Week 10 Games as the season enters the home stretch
Post by: MikeDeTiger on October 30, 2023, 04:08:30 PM

Eh....they gave up 7 until they stopped caring, imo.  But yeah, this isn't the same UGA defense as the last two years.  Still a good one.  Florida can do some damage when they don't shoot themselves in the foot.  

Title: Re: Week 10 Games as the season enters the home stretch
Post by: MikeDeTiger on October 30, 2023, 04:13:48 PM

I gave Mrs. DeTiger the TV rights for the season, and fortunately Texas plays early in the morning and doesn't interfere with our game.  I wonder if it extends to MLB tho....she's a Rangers fan and they could be playing game 7, possibly. 

Ah well, s'probably better than watching us lose to Bama again anyway.  

Title: Re: Week 10 Games as the season enters the home stretch
Post by: Cincydawg on November 01, 2023, 10:07:52 AM

Arky at Florida - Must win for Gators, also very probable win, at home.  Arky has not "matured" into a 8-9 win program as I thought they might back when.  Florida - 38  Arky - 17

LSU at Bama - Seems like a lot of points might get put up by both, to me, which maybe means 17-16 outcome, but I think not.  Bama 41  LSU 38 in semi-classic.

Mizzou at UGA - Maybe this sort weird UGA is really rounding into form, at least on offense, I see a bit of a shootout, UGA 45 Mizzou 31.

A&M at Ole Miss - A tricky one, critical for both, I'll go with the home team, Ole Miss 38  Aggies 27.

Auburn at Vandy - Meh,  Tigers 31  Vandy 17

UK at Miss State - UK has fallen hard (again), MSU  27  UK 17

Title: Re: Week 10 Games as the season enters the home stretch
Post by: MikeDeTiger on November 01, 2023, 10:30:45 AM

I can get on board with all those except MSU/UK, since I don't think MSU can score 27 against a kindergarten flag football squad. 

Title: Re: Week 10 Games as the season enters the home stretch
Post by: MikeDeTiger on November 01, 2023, 11:13:41 AM

Since 2011's "Game of the Century," Alabama is 10-0 against LSU when holding the Tigers to 17 pts or fewer.  0-2 when allowing more than 17.  Could we see that meaningless, yet true fact come to an end this weekend?  Stay tuned.  

Title: Re: Week 10 Games as the season enters the home stretch
Post by: Cincydawg on November 01, 2023, 11:29:49 AM

Quote from: MikeDeTiger on November 01, 2023, 10:30:45 AM

I can get on board with all those except MSU/UK, since I don't think MSU can score 27 against a kindergarten flag football squad. 

They put up 37 on USCe and 27 on Auburn.  And 7 on Arky.

Title: Re: Week 10 Games as the season enters the home stretch
Post by: Cincydawg on November 01, 2023, 12:11:42 PM

College football predictions: SportsLine projects final score for SEC Week 10 games (247sports.com) (https://247sports.com/college/georgia/longformarticle/college-football-predictions-sportsline-projects-final-score-for-sec-week-10-games-219264539/#2287144)

Title: Re: Week 10 Games as the season enters the home stretch
Post by: MikeDeTiger on November 01, 2023, 12:25:45 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on November 01, 2023, 11:29:49 AM

They put up 37 on USCe and 27 on Auburn.  And 7 on Arky.

They scored 13 on Auburn.

I did forget the 37 on USC, however in their other 4 conference games so far, they've scored 14, 17, 7 and 13.  One of those was against the most hapless, wretched LSU defense since Curly Hallman roamed the sidelines.  Needless to say, my confidence in the western Bulldogs is not high. 

Interestingly, the 14 scored against LSU is less than the 17 scored against Alabama, whose defense is far, far superior to the Tigers.  Could've been junk time scores, I don't remember.  

Title: Re: Week 10 Games as the season enters the home stretch
Post by: Cincydawg on November 01, 2023, 12:52:20 PM

I musta reversed the scores, thanks.  Yeah, they seem Iowaesque.

Title: Re: Week 10 Games as the season enters the home stretch
Post by: Cincydawg on November 02, 2023, 06:50:04 PM

In the 1960 Orange Bowl—the first time UGA and Missouri faced off—Georgia’s Fran Tarkenton passed for two TDs, and Durward Pennington kicked two PATs, in the Bulldogs’ 14-0 win over the Tigers.

It would be another 53 seasons before the schools played a second time.

Title: Re: Week 10 Games as the season enters the home stretch
Post by: EastAthens on November 03, 2023, 07:16:09 AM

There  are some great games this week which I find impossible to pick with any confidence. However the Dawgs-Mizzou is not one of them. I can't see Missouri or Ole Miss next week making it to the 4th quarter against this team in front of a geeked up Sanford.

UGA 41-Mizzou 20 after a late garbage td against the 3s like the Gators got last week.

Alabama-LSU is one of those impossible games to pick. Does Daniels win the Heisman this week or does the Tide d beat him into the turf like they did to Dart? I am reluctantly picking the home defense on a last second fg. Tide 27-LSU 24

A&M-Ole Miss is also intriguing this week, especially with Kiffen shit-talking Jimbo before the game. I don't think shit-talking matters much but it is fun to watch.  Aggies in a small upset 34-31.

In the Hot Seat Bowl, UF-21-20 which I hate- Pittman is one of my favorites.

The SEC is so much fun!

In other games, the Big 10 once again offers no compelling matchups.

I like Texas over KSU 20-10 based on a superior oline which beats the Wildcats down late.

My upset of the week is USC 45-Washibgton 42 in a game in which the defenses may as well stay on the busses.

Visions of 3peats dancing in their heads!

Title: Re: Week 10 Games as the season enters the home stretch
Post by: MikeDeTiger on November 03, 2023, 10:22:04 AM

You couldn't engineer a better demise for a secondary.  All four cornerbacks LSU brought in from the portal to shore up the position are out for this game, and longer.  Zy Alexander got injured on the final play of the first half against Army.  JK Johnson suffered a season-ending injury at the end of preseason practice.  Denver Harris and Duce Chestnut...well, nobody knows...they're still on the roster and supposedly "in good standing with the program, but are not actively working with the team," and haven't traveled to any of the away games for a few weeks.  That leaves Sage Ryan at one corner spot, who is a guy you don't exactly want representing a school that called itself DBU fairly recently, and a mix of true freshman at the other spot and nickel. 

Then there's safety Greg Brooks, by far the most experienced and best member of the secondary, who's out with brain cancer since week 3, definitely for the season, probably a career-ender and we just hope not a life-ender. 

And just for good measure, 2022 AA DT Mekhi Wingo had to have surgery during the bye week and is effectively out for the season.  Six weeks recovery time, so they say.....could be back for a bowl, maybe.  Wingo played every single snap against UGA in the SECCG last year out of necessity and gave the Dawg OL hell until he flat wore out in the 4th quarter and they got the better of him.  Would be nice to have a guy like that in T-town. 

Welp....cheer up, you bunch'a true freshman....after your annihilation and humiliation this week, your careers can only go up from there.  Can't wait to see what these kids look like trying to cover Burton and Bond on their own field. 

LSU    24
Bama  one billion

Title: Re: Week 10 Games as the season enters the home stretch
Post by: Cincydawg on November 05, 2023, 06:24:38 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on November 01, 2023, 10:07:52 AM

Arky at Florida - Must win for Gators, also very probable win, at home.  Arky has not "matured" into a 8-9 win program as I thought they might back when.  Florida - 38  Arky - 17

LSU at Bama - Seems like a lot of points might get put up by both, to me, which maybe means 17-16 outcome, but I think not.  Bama 41  LSU 38 in semi-classic.

Mizzou at UGA - Maybe this sort weird UGA is really rounding into form, at least on offense, I see a bit of a shootout, UGA 45 Mizzou 31.

A&M at Ole Miss - A tricky one, critical for both, I'll go with the home team, Ole Miss 38  Aggies 27.

Auburn at Vandy - Meh,  Tigers 31  Vandy 17

UK at Miss State - UK has fallen hard (again), MSU  27  UK 17

Another weel with misses, but I got a few right.

Florida losing a home is a shocker and Arky scoring 38 to beat them is a shocker.

MDT was right about MSU's scoring, or lack thereof.  UK rolls.

The home team won the others where I was right, except Auburn over Vandy, meh.

Title: Re: Week 10 Games as the season enters the home stretch
Post by: MikeDeTiger on November 05, 2023, 08:56:25 AM

Quote from: Cincydawg on November 05, 2023, 06:24:38 AM

MDT was right about MSU's scoring, or lack thereof.  UK rolls.

I was right about a lot, unfortunately.  That stupid LSU score was almost exactly what I predicted, and played out exactly like I thought.  Everything had to go right for the offense and that's asking too much.  The defense forced ONE PUNT the entire game.  ONE.  Not that I'm surprised by it, but it's still mega-frustrating to sit through.  

What a waste from Kelly for all the fans.  I don't see any signs that Kelly is going to do anything here other than be "okay."  All of his portal pickups are busts.  The defense has gotten worse (by a lot).  The defensive coaches can't recruit and they apparently can't coach either, so his hires there are busts.  The worst waste is for Daniels himself, who still had an excellent game but got no help, and fittingly was knocked out.

Now we wait to see if he has a concussion, and if so, we get to watch us lose to a pitiful Florida team next week.  Can't wait to see the Gator offense look like the Kansas City Chiefs next weekend either way.  

Last word....if I'm not mistaken, Dallas Turner is the same kid who knocked Ewers out of the Texas game last year.  How in the world that wasn't targeting boggles my mind, but the refereeing all over the SEC is--and certainly was yesterday--beyond incompetent.  Turner launched, lowered his head, and had forcible contact to Daniels' head and neck area.  If that's not targeting I don't know what is.  The darkest part of me hopes Turner has an injury and never plays a down of football again.  Once is a bad turn of events, twice is a trend.  

I've been rooting against UGA this year because they're the current Death Star and I have no interest in seeing them win 3 NCs in a row.  However, for the SECCG, for the first time in a game not featuring us I will have a definite rooting interest, and I hope UGA drills these Gumps so hard Saban retires and every blue chip they have transfers.  

Title: Re: Week 10 Games as the season enters the home stretch
Post by: Cincydawg on November 05, 2023, 09:04:00 AM

I went to bed, didn't see the hit on the QB.  I saw a still that looked like targeting.+

Was that targeting on Jayden Daniels? Judge for yourself | LSU | nola.com (https://www.nola.com/sports/lsu/should-dallas-turner-have-been-called-for-targeting-on-his-hit-to-jayden-daniels-see/article_18e62d8a-7b83-11ee-b470-53dee5529471.html)

Title: Re: Week 10 Games as the season enters the home stretch
Post by: MikeDeTiger on November 05, 2023, 01:52:21 PM

I don't think it was "dirty" or that he meant injury, but by the rules and by what's commonly called, it absolutely was targeting.  He absolutely means to get a cheap shot on the qb and he continues that kind of play because getting refs to enforce judgment call fouls on Bama requires divine intervention.  

I can recap the game for you easily.  Offense did exactly what you want them to, turned the first half deferral into first points (thanks to the ONE opening defensive stop we got) , scored in the last minute of the half and then scored again coming out of the half.  The only blemish was a missed FG and a failed 4th and 1 that I didn't love the call, but I understood it.  Daniels clearly was looking at narrower windows than he's used to and/or was having a harder time reading coverages because he reverted a bit to last year's habits of holding the ball too long.  When the camera angles allowed, I could see our guys were getting separation but not wide open....I guess that threw him.  Nevertheless, the line balled out and gave awesome protection, he used his legs when he couldn't comfortably throw it, and despite it all his passing numbers were quite good for the first half. 

Second half opened with more of the same, except by then the defense was way done stopping anything.  I can't remember which drive was which, but on the second and third drives a ball got batted at the line and it fell, of course, right into a Gump's arms.  That's a good play by the defense and not a knock on Daniels, imo.  We had a batted ball or two but they fell harmlessly where no Tigers were.  The other drive effectively ended on 2nd and 17 when Taylor dropped a ball by the sticks that hit him square in the numbers.  Bama was up by 7 at that point and I told my wife it was over, we'll punt, they'll score and be up by 14 and we can't tie them anymore as they continue to score.  That drop was absolutely brutal and I was absolutely right.  Only gained 5-6 yards on 3rd down and punted.  Kid deserved better than a tight end butterfingering his pass.  Btw, we were in 2nd and long because of stupid self-inflicted penalties.  I've rarely ever seen a center false start.  I've never seen one do it three times in a game and kill his team. 

Anyway, what I didn't count on was them knocking Daniels out of the game on the next drive to start the 4th quarter and our scoring to stop altogether.  It didn't matter except to make the final score uglier.  You have to have a stop to catch a two score lead, and that was never gonna happen.  

People can say what they want about Penix, Nix, McCarthy, etc.  Penix puts up video game numbers on a trash SC defense, Milroe put up numbers on an even worse LSU defense.  What Daniels did was against the best ranked pass defense, without much help from a traditional running game.  He's the best in the country, I said what I said.  

Somewhere in there the refs missed a horse collar tackle on Daniels, but whatever.  Game wasn't lost on bad calls, and the incompetent refs made bad calls against Bama too.  It was lost because we have--literally--no defense, and the offense couldn't be perfect against a top notch defense. 

I hate wasting an offense like this but it's probably better than having nothing to waste, which is what's coming for the foreseeable future.  Kelly/LSU isn't going to come anywhere close to Bama/UGA and until Saban/Smart are done and LSU lucks into an other-worldy coach, we're playing for "nice seasons" and not conference titles or playoff spots. 

Title: Re: Week 10 Games as the season enters the home stretch
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on November 05, 2023, 08:32:09 PM

We suck.

A missed XP cost us the game.  Along with sucking.

Title: Re: Week 10 Games as the season enters the home stretch
Post by: MikeDeTiger on November 06, 2023, 10:32:16 AM

Just wait til this weekend when Mertz gets his Heisman campaign started.  

Title: Re: Week 10 Games as the season enters the home stretch
Post by: rolltidefan on November 06, 2023, 02:37:50 PM

Quote from: Cincydawg on November 05, 2023, 09:04:00 AM

I went to bed, didn't see the hit on the QB.  I saw a still that looked like targeting.+

Was that targeting on Jayden Daniels? Judge for yourself | LSU | nola.com (https://www.nola.com/sports/lsu/should-dallas-turner-have-been-called-for-targeting-on-his-hit-to-jayden-daniels-see/article_18e62d8a-7b83-11ee-b470-53dee5529471.html)

was at the game and didn't see the hit live (was ball watching) and they didn't show a replay on big screens due to injury (standard practice, don't show injury replays). so thi sis first i've seen of it.

having said that, it's a brutal hit, but i don't think it's targeting. and certainly not an intentional hit to hurt him.

i don't think it's targeting because, if i remember right, even though the rules don't specify, but i'm fairly sure one of the rules experts said as long as they wrap up, it won't be called. again, i don't think it's part of the rule technically, but i remember someone saying that when there was a big hubbub about the new rule, and i think it was one of the rules analysts/officials.

anyway, i don't like the targeting rule anyway and until they remove the disqualified part of it, i'll vote against any targeting call being good, for or against my team.

fwiw, i thought lsu was playing well enough and the game was going to come down to the wire until he got hurt. hate to see a player get hurt, especially one of that caliber. unfortunate for lsu.

Title: Re: Week 10 Games as the season enters the home stretch
Post by: MikeDeTiger on November 06, 2023, 03:37:13 PM

You only need one out of launch, lower the head, forcible contact to the head or neck area.  Turner met all 3.  I'm willing to entertain an argument that he didn't lower the head enough, but the other two are indisputable. 

Doesn't matter what we think about the rule.  Under the rule it was targeting.  We've been nailed for targeting with far less egregious hits, which is one reason it sits so poorly with some fans.  You know something's up when even Danielson and Gene Steritore are calling for targeting.  Didn't think I'd ever see that.  

I failed to add Jaxon Dart earlier....Turner also knocked him out last year, along with Ewers.  He's a great player.  He's also dirty.  It is what it is.  Many great players are dirty. 

Title: Re: Week 10 Games as the season enters the home stretch
Post by: rolltidefan on November 07, 2023, 10:04:56 AM

Quote from: MikeDeTiger on November 06, 2023, 03:37:13 PM

You only need one out of launch, lower the head, forcible contact to the head or neck area.  Turner met all 3.  I'm willing to entertain an argument that he didn't lower the head enough, but the other two are indisputable. 

Doesn't matter what we think about the rule.  Under the rule it was targeting.  We've been nailed for targeting with far less egregious hits, which is one reason it sits so poorly with some fans.  You know something's up when even Danielson and Gene Steritore are calling for targeting.  Didn't think I'd ever see that. 

I failed to add Jaxon Dart earlier....Turner also knocked him out last year, along with Ewers.  He's a great player.  He's also dirty.  It is what it is.  Many great players are dirty. 

he's not dirty, i will fight that all day.

also didn't launch. one foot was on ground when he makes contact, and the other was mid step and makes contact with ground after contact. that's not launching. not sure i agree with lowering the head either. it's facemask to facemask. contact with the head is indisputable, so that fits. but not sure how guys are supposed to hit each other head on without contact to the head or without ducking/lowing head. one has to happen.

100% on there being many many calls for much less than that hit. don't like them either.

i don't think i'd argue too much if it was called targeting, though i still don't think it should be. but i would hate it because it was NOT a dirty play and it's unfortunate daniels got injured. but i wouldn't hate it for the penalty, but for the disqualifying. there is nothing in that play to suggest he should be kick out of the game. no more than the horse collar tackle called later, or the blind side block.

it's a violent sport and we have to accept that sometime violent things happen that might cause injuries. maybe they deserve penalties, but it's also part of the nature of the game that things like that will happen. and just because they happen doesn't mean it was dirty and that the player needs to be disqualified. and for virtually everything else in the game, we do accept that. but for some reason, targeting is treated differently. and don't tell me it's more violent play either. i've seen plenty of injuries from horse collars, crack back blocks, chop blocks, facemask, roughing the passer/kicker, unnecessary roughness, late hits, hit out of bounds, spearing, clipping, and unsportsmanlike conduct. all of those are injury preventative rules. none require disqualification. some can rise to the level, but only in extremely severe, non-football circumstances (like fights are unsportsmanlike and can lead to disqualifying, but so is trash talk and it's not disqualifying). i don't understand why targeting is treated differently, and until that's changed, i'll be against targeting in general.

of course, i'm a hypocrite and will take the calls that benefit my team, but still...:)

Title: Re: Week 10 Games as the season enters the home stretch
Post by: MikeDeTiger on November 07, 2023, 11:05:03 AM

EDIT:  The videos below are supposed to be set to 4:15 for the first one and 24:00 for the second one, and even though I time-stamped them, it's not working.  Jump to those time stamps so as not to waste time watching the whole thing.  

He left his feet as he drove him to the ground.  Besides, forcible contact to the head/neck area is all that's required, particularly on a defenseless player, which a QB who has just released is considered to be. 

Not dirty?  I'll fight that all day.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YumrKCUw2Lw&t=4m15s

Sorry, when that is your history, you're dirty.  You don't repeatedly shove a QBs head in the ground like that and say it's not dirty.  Full stop.  I'm not listening to any defense of that.  And when you've taken multiple QBs out in your career, it's a a thing you do, not an "Oops, that's unfortunate, I feel bad for the guy." 

Now, if you want to take the following attitude about it, that's fair.  Nobody's calling him a bad guy, menace to society or anything like that. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PCGoo9N2tUc&t=24m0s

Title: Re: Week 10 Games as the season enters the home stretch
Post by: MikeDeTiger on November 07, 2023, 11:25:37 AM

I don't want to be misunderstood as saying something I don't mean.  I don't mean he should be banned from the game, he's a terrible person, or that he goes against the spirit of the game.  I'm saying he knows where the lines are, and he's good at crossing them just enough.  He's LaRon Landry.  He's Nick Fairley.  He's Brandon Spikes. 

What I am saying is repeated patterns are the opposite of random.  Notice how many stellar players Alabama has had that this stuff doesn't happen to.  Then notice it keeps happening with one guy.  From a sheer statistical standpoint I can confidently say that Turner knows how to throw some extra dirtiness in his game that is part of his greatness.  I don't hold any ill will toward Landry, Fairley, Spikes, and many others, just like I don't hold any toward Turner.

But I maintain it was targeting and if our guys are gonna get ejected for stuff like that, he should've been as well.  

Title: Re: Week 10 Games as the season enters the home stretch
Post by: rolltidefan on November 07, 2023, 12:05:16 PM

i guess we have different definitions of dirty. i think of dirty as a play with obvious intent to injure. i don't see that in the lsu hit.

i've heard/seen the plays laid out in that video. this ewers hit wasn't dirty, but probably a penalty. bang bang split second plays happen so fast, can cause penalties but not be dirty. the face mask, again, don't see it. yes, it's gruesome, but i don't think it was done with obvious intent to injure. yes, it's clearly a penalty. yes, can cause injuries, thus the penalty. but i've done my share of facemasks when i played, and i know i wasn't intending to hurt anyone.

only video i've seen that's even vaguely dirty is the one with ole miss qb sacked and he pushes his head down into ground well after the tackle. but that's not dirty in the sense of trying to injure, more of a cheap shot of poor sportsmanship.

there are dirty players that try to injure. poking eyes in the pile, twisting knees and ankles, etc. i don't see that with turner. hard hits is not synonymous with those.

playing to the whistle and hitting as hard as you can will never be dirty to me. i won't buy it and you'll never convince me. we'll just have to agree to disagree or come up with a better word/definition that we can agree on. dirty aint it.

Title: Re: Week 10 Games as the season enters the home stretch
Post by: rolltidefan on November 07, 2023, 12:07:15 PM

Quote from: MikeDeTiger on November 07, 2023, 11:25:37 AM

But I maintain it was targeting and if our guys are gonna get ejected for stuff like that, he should've been as well. 

targeting or not, i will, again, fight against any call that disqualifies a player just trying to make a football play. lsu players included. they should not be ejected and the rule itself is wrong. keep the penalty, fine. but remove the ejection part. until then, i'm not in favor of any call for targeting.

Title: Re: Week 10 Games as the season enters the home stretch
Post by: MikeDeTiger on November 07, 2023, 12:31:40 PM

Okay, come up with a word you like for a player who repeatedly injures QBs and shoves their heads in the ground when no other Alabama players for years do that or injure QBs, and I'll use that word. 

Title: Re: Week 10 Games as the season enters the home stretch
Post by: rolltidefan on November 07, 2023, 01:14:23 PM

ok, when that happens, i'll come up with one.