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The Power Five => Big Ten => Topic started by: Honestbuckeye on July 25, 2023, 07:01:00 AM

Title: K-12 Education
Post by: Honestbuckeye on July 25, 2023, 07:01:00 AM
https://apple.news/AzoPXw8IoS7OUrdbFk_SY4g


Fro Man- you have my respect and sympathy.   What a revealing read. So daunting, scary, and sad.  

So many teachers made a long lasting, powerful and positive impact on me in my youth- including inner city schools in Cleveland.    Sounds almost impossible now.  Not sure how to fix. 
Title: Re: K-12 Education
Post by: 847badgerfan on July 25, 2023, 08:31:12 AM
Wow.

Sad reality. 
Title: Re: K-12 Education
Post by: JerseyTerrapin on July 25, 2023, 08:38:36 AM
My wife is a high school chemistry teacher, and she sees all that.  She wants to quit.

Administrators just keep falling for all the latest trends and keep loading her up with new BS tasks, when all she wants to do is teach the kids (which she's very good at; she cares a lot about preparing them for college, and was district teacher of the year recently, got to throw out the first pitch at a Phillies game, ha ha).  They just started some goofy schedule which reduced teaching time by like 20%, and they're all so proud of themselves now for being "progressive" and implementing that.  Parents abuse her and the administrators never have her back.

And the kids just sit on their phones all day during class, then cheat on everything.  The parents insist that it's a safety issue and the kids need to have the phones "in case of an emergency."  Discipline is gone, because the kids know that ultimately they will skate.

Most of the kids are cool, but since everybody can do whatever they want, she is rather discouraged and ready to go back to finish her career as chemist, where she started before getting certified to teach...

Title: Re: K-12 Education
Post by: Honestbuckeye on July 25, 2023, 09:00:17 AM
My wife is a high school chemistry teacher, and she sees all that.  She wants to quit.

Administrators just keep falling for all the latest trends and keep loading her up with new BS tasks, when all she wants to do is teach the kids (which she's very good at; she cares a lot about preparing them for college, and was district teacher of the year recently, got to throw out the first pitch at a Phillies game, ha ha).  They just started some goofy schedule which reduced teaching time by like 20%, and they're all so proud of themselves now for being "progressive" and implementing that.  Parents abuse her and the administrators never have her back.

And the kids just sit on their phones all day during class, then cheat on everything.  The parents insist that it's a safety issue and the kids need to have the phones "in case of an emergency."  Discipline is gone, because the kids know that ultimately they will skate.

Most of the kids are cool, but since everybody can do whatever they want, she is rather discouraged and ready to go back to finish her career as chemist, where she started before getting certified to teach...


Wow.  So sad and discouraging.
Title: Re: K-12 Education
Post by: 847badgerfan on July 25, 2023, 09:16:21 AM
It seems to me that the admin side has gotten too bloated.

My HS had a principal, an assistant principal, and a dean - along with their support staff. The front office was small. My HS is closed (repurposed since 1986) but the school district exists. This is a couple of the schools still around.

Administration / Overview (d214.org) (https://www.d214.org/domain/493)

 That's 11 big wigs - plus their support staff.

Administration / Administration (d214.org) (https://www.d214.org/domain/481)

13.

Administration / Meet our Administrators (d214.org) (https://www.d214.org/domain/102)

16.

Administration / Meet Our Administrators (d214.org) (https://www.d214.org/domain/469)

12.
Title: Re: K-12 Education
Post by: Cincydawg on July 25, 2023, 09:27:14 AM
A complaint my kids' teachers had was the need to "teach to the test".  They knew the upper level kids would pass any state tests easily, the lower level kids would largely struggle, but those in the middle could be "coached" up to have decent passing grades, so they had to focus on that.  They explained it wasn't teaching.  The lower level kids were in classes mostly devoted to maintaining some semblance of order.

The plethora of newish rules and regulations and requirements to report on this and that status is why Admin has blown up, it was this way in the 2000s.
Title: Re: K-12 Education
Post by: JerseyTerrapin on July 25, 2023, 09:29:40 AM
It seems to me that the admin side has gotten too bloated.

My HS had a principal, an assistant principal, and a dean - along with their support staff. The front office was small. My HS is closed (repurposed since 1986) but the school district exists. This is a couple of the schools still around.

Administration / Overview (d214.org) (https://www.d214.org/domain/493)

 That's 11 big wigs - plus their support staff.

Administration / Administration (d214.org) (https://www.d214.org/domain/481)

13.

Administration / Meet our Administrators (d214.org) (https://www.d214.org/domain/102)

16.

Administration / Meet Our Administrators (d214.org) (https://www.d214.org/domain/469)

12.
 I think you are exactly right.  Plus, as was mentioned it that article, the army of administrators are completely out of touch with the classrooms.

If I could draw, I'd create a cartoon simulating the phone situation in terms of "back in the day."  Imagine if we had on our desks a movie projector, fax machine, television, radio, phone, and were allowed to run them all with impunity...
Title: Re: K-12 Education
Post by: 847badgerfan on July 25, 2023, 09:39:26 AM
I think you are exactly right.  Plus, as was mentioned it that article, the army of administrators are completely out of touch with the classrooms.

If I could draw, I'd create a cartoon simulating the phone situation in terms of "back in the day."  Imagine if we had on our desks a movie projector, fax machine, television, radio, phone, and were allowed to run them all with impunity...

This.

Students should have to "check" their phone at the door and turn them silent.

(My phone (Samsung something) cannot be turned off.)
Title: Re: K-12 Education
Post by: JerseyTerrapin on July 25, 2023, 11:11:33 AM
This.

Students should have to "check" their phone at the door and turn them silent.

(My phone (Samsung something) cannot be turned off.)
Last year, at a faculty meeting, the principal asked for anonymous questions and comments.  My wife asked if the administration was looking at problems in the classroom with cell phones.  This buffoon literally laughed at the question on the stage, and spent the next few minutes extolling the virtues of cell phones in society.  

He completely misses the point of the struggle that every teacher is going through every period of every day.  If you ask one of these kids to hand a cell phone over, because they won't put it away, it's like asking them to rip a kidney out.  Many get confrontational and even hysterical about it...


Title: Re: K-12 Education
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on July 25, 2023, 11:28:41 AM
There are so many issues with the education system that it is nearly impossible to unpack them all and keep them all straight but I want to tackle one of the issues here. 

First some backstory:
Some of you met my dad.  He, my brother, and I watched the Buckeyes play in all (then) 14 B1G stadiums and I'm so glad we took those trips together because he isn't around anymore.  Anyway, we met @FearlessF (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=10) in Lincoln, ran into @Roaddawg (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=68) on the USS New Jersey while on our Rutgers trip, and visited countless others on these various trips. 

My dad's mother owned a gift shop starting back in the 1940's when it was EXTREMELY rare for a woman to even work outside the home, let alone operate a very successful store.  After High School and a three-year stint in the Marines my dad came home and worked in the Gift Shop.  As a side job he drove a School Bus because they were looking for drivers and he had a Military Truck Driver's License that apparently transferred over (he had driven 2.5 and 5 ton ammunition trucks while in the Marines).  After a few years (this was roughly 1961-1965) he got too busy for the bus driver job so he quit to focus on other things. 

Unfortunately my grandmother (whom I never met) was or became an alcoholic so the situation at the Gift Shop became untenable for my dad.  He became a travelling salesman selling the giftware to gift shops like the one he had grown up in.  My dad always said that he was good at it because he could REALLY understand his customers since he had grown up in a store just like the ones they were operating. 

After I was born (1975) and in preparation for my brother's arrival (1980) my dad had a "Cat's in the Cradle" moment and decided that he didn't want to be a travelling salesman away from home when his two boys were growing up so he quit that and went back to patching an income together from driving a bus and managing rental property.  At first he mostly managed other people's rental property but over time he acquired more and more of his own until eventually he was exclusively managing his own rental property (like 40 years later). 

Anyway, I mentioned above that his first stint driving a school bus was roughly 1961-1965 right after he got out of the marines.  His second stint driving a bus was about 1980-1985. 

Sorry for the lengthy backstory but it was to get to this:
My dad many times complained about the degradation in discipline in the ~20 years between his first and second stints driving a school bus.  When my dad drove in the 1960's he literally had the authority to simply drop a kid off.  That sounds crazy today but I'm completely serious.  The usage of "literally" in the previous sentence is 100% accurate.  If a kid was causing problems on the bus my dad (and all bus drivers) in the 1960's had the authority to stop the bus, eject the kid (by force if necessary), and take the rest of the kids to school.  It was the troublemaker's problem to figure out how to get himself to school. 

When my dad was in his second stint driving a bus in the 1980's things had changed DRAMATICALLY.  Discipline in the 1980's was a lengthy process.  If my dad had a troublemaker on the bus he was supposed to file a report.  The report would pass up the Transportation Department chain of command eventually reaching the Transportation Supervisor.  Then it would get turned over to the Superintendent's office then get passed down the chain of command to the troublemaker's principal.  Eventually a meeting would be scheduled with the principal, the bus driver, the kid, and the kid's parents. 

All of these steps in the process at least partially explain the explosion in the number of administrators as noted above by @847badgerfan (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=5) . 

As my dad explained it, by the time the meeting was scheduled he didn't even remember what he was mad at the kid for and then when the meeting happened the parents invariably took the kids' side and the principal would ultimately just tell the kid not to do that anymore.  Part of the problem was that the administrators typically treated each report as a first-time incident because it was "new to them".  Realistically, however, most drivers were obviously telling a kid to stop, then giving a warning or three, then eventually filing a report so actual reported discipline issues were only a small fraction of the total discipline issues and they were almost all at least third offenses. 

In short, there was effectively no discipline on busses in the 1980's because the drivers were powerless.  A very few drivers (who the others referred to as OT-whores) would consistently file discipline reports because they'd get OT for attending the eventual meetings.  The rest of the drivers basically just ignored anything short of serious violence.  It simply wasn't worth their time and trouble to file reports on anything much short of murder. 

My dad once pointed out that while he found this frustrating it had to be much worse for the teachers.  At least in my dad's case he was simply a HS educated guy with a special driver's license so it made SOME sense that he maybe shouldn't be in charge of discipline for kids but teachers have at least a bachelors degree so it is insane to give them years of training in dealing with kids then effectively tell them that they can't do the thing that they are trained to do. 

On a fundamental level this all grew out of a 1975 SCOTUS (Supreme Court of the United States) case titled "Goss vs Lopez".  Prior to that schools were generally seen as what is referred to as "In Loco Parentis".  Parents are generally given wide latitude in handling their kids and "In Loco Parentis" translates (roughly, I don't speak Latin) as "Standing in place of the Parent(s)".  Thus, if my brother or I watch each other's kids, when we are doing that we generally have similar rights/responsibilities to the actual parent because we are simply standing in place of the parent.  Historically it was the same for a School District. 

Back when my dad was driving a bus in the early 1960's the School District as a whole and even down to the level of he as an individual driver were legally "standing in place of the parents" so they had more-or-less carte-blanche to handle discipline as they saw fit. 

Goss vs Lopez established that students in public schools have a right to due process.  Thus, they cannot be disciplined without a "due process hearing" and since they are nearly all minors their parents have a right to be there so discipline is massively delayed. 

One problem is that even if this system actually functioned as intended the delay introduced in between misbehavior and consequences severely diminishes the effectiveness of the discipline.  Kids learn from actions leading to consequences.  They don't learn well (or at all) when there is a weekslong delay between their actions and the consequences. 

Now I should say that I'm sure there were excesses the old way.  That said, I think we've swung WAY TOO FAR the other way and lost all concept of discipline in schools which a number of the teachers in the article linked in @Honestbuckeye (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=37) 's original post complained about. 

A second issue wrt discipline is that something changed in our society at large.  Years ago when my dad was driving a bus in the 1960's parents pretty much universally cooperated with the authorities (Teachers, Principals, and even Bus Drivers) and presented a united front to counter an unruly child.  Even as late as when I was in school (1980's) this was at least generally true (at least in my suburban schools) although even then there were some cracks in it.  Today it seems that parents have flipped 180 degrees and are pretty much universally opposed to the authorities in matters of discipline.  Today's unruly children are thus presented with two sides rather than a united front. 
Title: Re: K-12 Education
Post by: Honestbuckeye on July 25, 2023, 11:46:59 AM
Great post Medina.  
Title: Re: K-12 Education
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on July 25, 2023, 11:55:10 AM
Another SCOTUS case that contributed to the situation we find ourselves in today was Tinker vs Des Moines.  

The Tinker children and some friends wore black armbands to school in 1968 as a protest against the Vietnam War.  The School District had a policy prohibiting such political protests.  The district won at trial (Federal Court) and the appellate Court split so the Trial Court's ruling stood.  Tinker's appealed to SCOTUS and a 7-2 majority decided that "it can hardly be argued that either students or teachers shed their constitutional rights to freedom of speech or expression at the schoolhouse gate."  

Justice Hugo Black who was generally a Free Speech Absolutist dissented stating that "if the time has come when pupils of state-supported schools, kindergarten, can defy and flout orders of school officials to keep their minds on their own schoolwork, it is the beginning of a revolutionary era of permissiveness in this country fostered by the judiciary."  

Justice John Harlan dissented on the grounds that he found "nothing in this record which inpugns the good faith of the respondents in promulgating the armband regulation."  

Essentially, Justice Black saw it as a permissible restriction not on the speech or expression itself but on what is referred to as the "Time, Place, and Manner" of the speech or expression.  Ie, you have a right to protest the war in Vietnam but when you are at school you are there to learn not to engage in political debate.  

Justice Harlan looked more to the motives of the School Officials.  It sounds like he would have rejected the regulation if they had clearly been Pro-War and gone after anti-war expression in a way that was clearly not viewpoint neutral.  

Personally, I agree with Black or at least Harlan.  Making political statements is a protected activity but the time, place, and manner of those statements is not unlimited.  Teachers are at school to teach and students are there to learn.  IMHO, the district should prohibit them from distracting from the teaching and learning that they are there for with politics.  
Title: Re: K-12 Education
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on July 25, 2023, 12:03:33 PM
Great post Medina. 
Thank you.

Total aside:
I explained in my post that my use of "literally" was in fact correct because the term is so frequently misused today. That misuse annoys me.
Title: Re: K-12 Education
Post by: JerseyTerrapin on July 25, 2023, 12:17:24 PM
Thank you.

Total aside:
I explained in my post that my use of "literally" was in fact correct because the term is so frequently misused today. That misuse annoys me.
Ditto.  I fight the urge to explain it, such as above, where the principal "literally" laughed. 


My other pet peeve is "compare" instead of "equate."  

"Did you just compare Ohio State Football to Maryland Football?"  "Did you just compare Mother Teresa to Adolph Hitler?"  To make matters worse, usually I didn't equate them, either.  I simply used them in the same sentence...
Title: Re: K-12 Education
Post by: 847badgerfan on July 25, 2023, 02:23:49 PM
Another problem. It's dated and only for Illinois, but still.

Too Many School Districts In Illinois? What You Should Know About School Consolidation - Better Government Association (https://www.bettergov.org/2018/01/17/too-many-school-districts-in-illinois-what-you-should-know-about-school-consolidation/)
Title: Re: K-12 Education
Post by: Gigem on July 25, 2023, 05:15:53 PM
We’d get our asses beat at school in the 80’s and 90’s. Some kids never learned. Trouble makers got expelled eventually. 

Now schools are expected to put up with little Johnny no matter how much shit he stirs up. 
Title: Re: K-12 Education
Post by: bayareabadger on July 25, 2023, 05:17:30 PM
Another problem. It's dated and only for Illinois, but still.

Too Many School Districts In Illinois? What You Should Know About School Consolidation - Better Government Association (https://www.bettergov.org/2018/01/17/too-many-school-districts-in-illinois-what-you-should-know-about-school-consolidation/)
Oh school consolidation issues fascinate me to no end. 

They’re often a tough narrative sell, but they do matter 
Title: Re: K-12 Education
Post by: utee94 on July 25, 2023, 05:38:24 PM
Irregardless

Title: Re: K-12 Education
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on July 25, 2023, 07:47:49 PM
I was depressed in the spring of 2022.  Not clinically, I just didn't enjoy my day-to-day life. 
I had a student that dominated 99% of my attention and would literally scream at the top of his lungs when he got in a mood. 
That was fun.  It was the first year of my career my class did poorly on the standardized testing.  There wasn't anything for admin to do with him.  He wasn't violent towards others really, just psychotic.  He'd accidently drop a water bottle, start screaming.  He'd purposely drop it, start screaming.  And he was the highest kid in the class.
The parents were delusional.
The counselor's load was so high, she saw him for 30 min a week.
He did not change all year.
He was never absent.
.
There's my whining schpiel.
The reality of education is that it's bad and getting worse.  Everyone is quitting because it's not a good life.  I have younger students and I have to be "on" all day.  So when I get home, I do nothing for 2-3 hours.  Then I can go do things and be social and function.
There are no substitute teachers.  So if someone is out, we split their class and figure out seating for them.  If I'm out, the prep and knowing I'm stressing out my grade level team really sucks.  I pride myself on not taking a day off until April 1st (Opening Day for MLB) each year (~135 days into the school year).
.
I get that people want their own kids to go to the best school possible. 
BUT...while you're at your better school that's further away, the public neighborhood school you left is worse by you leaving.  It would be one thing if it was a random sample of 5 or 10% of the students, but it's 100% of the most involved parents.  Our best students.  Gone.  So what we have left are teachers trying their best without those students that are a pleasure to work with.  A higher % of the students are the behavior issues, low students, neglected and/or worse.  Every proponent of "school choice" is mathematically guaranteeing that the public schools worsen. 
.
Why not improve it?  Why not have more buy-in?  Why not build your fellow parents up rather than look down on them and run away? 
Rhetorical questions, I know.  It's not anyone's job to do that.  It's hard.  Etc.
.
I don't fault admins for how they behave.  They're watching their school population decrease in quality, let's say, while at the same time being told they must improve the school.  Do better with less.  Not less money, but the money is largely irrelevant.  It's the school community.  It's the stakeholders (students, teachers, parents, admin) not having cohesion. 
For admin, they're in a horse race with an ever-aging horse and a jockey who loves buffets.
.
I went to UF, a pretty good school.  I had good SATs, high IQ, two college grads as parents (accountant and civil engineer).  I CHOSE to teach.  It was an arrogant reason, but I didn't trust anyone to do it better. 
With good teachers, you were given more leeway because you have a track record and have earned trust.  For new or poor teachers, you were expected to stick to the script, so to speak ( and literally, often times).  But nowadays, they want everyone on that script.  It's not about trust, it's about not getting sued.  Not causing waves.  Just do what won't get us in trouble. 
.
I had a student with 92 absences last year.  Over half the school year, all haphazardly.  Didn't learn much of anything, was emotional many days, etc.  Not a great situation for her, obviously. 
But her test scores are factored into my "teacher effectiveness" just like the student there everyday with a healthy home life.  Good stuff.
I'm not going to quit.  Last year was a fantastic class, overall.  They were so good to each other and I kept them engaged.  We were a healthy, happy community in our little piece of the school. 
I hate the idea of quitting.  I'm not a quitter.  But to be honest, if I had a bunch of money in the bank, I probably would have caved into my depression and quit, hired an employee, and tried to greatly expand my side business.  Honestly, any job sounded better than my daily reality. 
.
It's stupid that I have a mindset that I'm going to out-tough whatever this occupation throws at me.  Kids.  Learning.  Shouldn't take any amount of toughness. 
Give me some kids and a tree providing shade, and I'll teach them anything you want me to.  Don't need all the other crap, good or bad.  It's all unnecessary crap.









Title: Re: K-12 Education
Post by: Honestbuckeye on July 25, 2023, 08:05:13 PM
Great post Fro.  Much respect to you for that refusal to quit- and that burning desire to help kids.  
Title: Re: K-12 Education
Post by: Gigem on July 25, 2023, 08:59:25 PM
I was depressed in the spring of 2022.  Not clinically, I just didn't enjoy my day-to-day life. 
I had a student that dominated 99% of my attention and would literally scream at the top of his lungs when he got in a mood. 
That was fun.  It was the first year of my career my class did poorly on the standardized testing.  There wasn't anything for admin to do with him.  He wasn't violent towards others really, just psychotic.  He'd accidently drop a water bottle, start screaming.  He'd purposely drop it, start screaming.  And he was the highest kid in the class.
The parents were delusional.
The counselor's load was so high, she saw him for 30 min a week.
He did not change all year.
He was never absent.
.
There's my whining schpiel.
The reality of education is that it's bad and getting worse.  Everyone is quitting because it's not a good life.  I have younger students and I have to be "on" all day.  So when I get home, I do nothing for 2-3 hours.  Then I can go do things and be social and function.
There are no substitute teachers.  So if someone is out, we split their class and figure out seating for them.  If I'm out, the prep and knowing I'm stressing out my grade level team really sucks.  I pride myself on not taking a day off until April 1st (Opening Day for MLB) each year (~135 days into the school year).
.
I get that people want their own kids to go to the best school possible. 
BUT...while you're at your better school that's further away, the public neighborhood school you left is worse by you leaving.  It would be one thing if it was a random sample of 5 or 10% of the students, but it's 100% of the most involved parents.  Our best students.  Gone.  So what we have left are teachers trying their best without those students that are a pleasure to work with.  A higher % of the students are the behavior issues, low students, neglected and/or worse.  Every proponent of "school choice" is mathematically guaranteeing that the public schools worsen. 
.
Why not improve it?  Why not have more buy-in?  Why not build your fellow parents up rather than look down on them and run away? 
Rhetorical questions, I know.  It's not anyone's job to do that.  It's hard.  Etc.
.
I don't fault admins for how they behave.  They're watching their school population decrease in quality, let's say, while at the same time being told they must improve the school.  Do better with less.  Not less money, but the money is largely irrelevant.  It's the school community.  It's the stakeholders (students, teachers, parents, admin) not having cohesion. 
For admin, they're in a horse race with an ever-aging horse and a jockey who loves buffets.
.
I went to UF, a pretty good school.  I had good SATs, high IQ, two college grads as parents (accountant and civil engineer).  I CHOSE to teach.  It was an arrogant reason, but I didn't trust anyone to do it better. 
With good teachers, you were given more leeway because you have a track record and have earned trust.  For new or poor teachers, you were expected to stick to the script, so to speak ( and literally, often times).  But nowadays, they want everyone on that script.  It's not about trust, it's about not getting sued.  Not causing waves.  Just do what won't get us in trouble. 
.
I had a student with 92 absences last year.  Over half the school year, all haphazardly.  Didn't learn much of anything, was emotional many days, etc.  Not a great situation for her, obviously. 
But her test scores are factored into my "teacher effectiveness" just like the student there everyday with a healthy home life.  Good stuff.
I'm not going to quit.  Last year was a fantastic class, overall.  They were so good to each other and I kept them engaged.  We were a healthy, happy community in our little piece of the school. 
I hate the idea of quitting.  I'm not a quitter.  But to be honest, if I had a bunch of money in the bank, I probably would have caved into my depression and quit, hired an employee, and tried to greatly expand my side business.  Honestly, any job sounded better than my daily reality. 
.
It's stupid that I have a mindset that I'm going to out-tough whatever this occupation throws at me.  Kids.  Learning.  Shouldn't take any amount of toughness. 
Give me some kids and a tree providing shade, and I'll teach them anything you want me to.  Don't need all the other crap, good or bad.  It's all unnecessary crap.
I very much respect this. Keep on going. Don’t let the bad outweigh the good. 
Title: Re: K-12 Education
Post by: 847badgerfan on July 26, 2023, 07:27:18 AM
That last part really made me smile.
Title: Re: K-12 Education
Post by: Cincydawg on July 26, 2023, 09:36:36 AM
Our family sponsors a $40 K a year college s-ship at the HS my kids attended.  It's meant for kids who do well at everything, but not quite well enough to get a ship for a something.  It has been pretty rewarding to learn something about the winners.  Some of them are from what we'd consider disadvantaged homes, at least economically.  One was the son of my mailman, I had no idea until the mailman saw me and mentioned it to me.  I'm on FB with several of them still.  I attended the wedding of one, his father broke down in tears when he saw me.  The guy was a truck driver, he said it changed his son's life.

Money can make a difference, but a committed capable teacher makes more difference, as no doubt a few have in all our lives.
Title: Re: K-12 Education
Post by: LetsGoPeay on July 26, 2023, 02:07:09 PM
I'm a high school principal. I like to think I'm in touch with the classroom and teachers. I view my job as being the shield to protect the teachers so they can do their jobs. That means I run interference for them as I take on the parents, handle the discipline, fight the cellphone battle, try to curb the vaping, ask for money for safety, go to kid's houses with our SRO to get them to come to school, substitute in classes, and try to focus on what's important: the kids.

I was named in three separate lawsuits last year. One, an alleged federal civil rights violation revolving around JV volleyball, is slated to go to trial. Another, in which I was accused of breaking a student's hand with an Ipad (he actually broke it on another kid's head a couple of weeks earlier) resulted in reports to DCS and the sheriff's department. The complaints were summarily dropped by both agencies and their lawyer told them "thanks but no thanks" but I had to explain to my kids why I was home for a week,  which was fun. I also got the privilege of being smeared on Facebook by the family and verbally berated and called "a child abuser" by the father while grocery shopping one Saturday. I now opt for grocery delivery. I filed a police report on that incident and make sure I always have my cell phone with me when I go out in public just in case.

Everything that's been stated is true. We struggle to fill any position we have. I was able to hire a chemistry/physics teacher this morning. I think he'll work out but he was our only applicant and may not last beyond a year. We can't compete with the local hardware store's pay when trying to hire hourly employees, especially since we can't allow them to work more than 29 hours a week or they'll have to be offered insurance. We have to get creative to find teachers now unless someone falls into our lap like the aforementioned chemistry/physics guy. That means we seek out people with degrees (doesn't necessarily have to be associated with the subject they teach) and any level of interest and train them to be teachers on the fly. Fortunately, some of our best hires lately have been these people. That's fortunate because teacher preparation programs at universities are graduating people at all-time low rates.

We are regarded as one of the better schools in our area which is great. Our enrollment has increased by 15% in the last two years. But now we have more students and our building is already at capacity. We don't have money to hire more teachers or assistants for even more students much less add classrooms.

It's a mess. It's not getting any better. I'm working on my doctorate with the intention of moving into the private sector and/or university teaching, preferably online. I just need three more years at my current pay or above to set my pension and then I'm out.
Title: Re: K-12 Education
Post by: Cincydawg on July 26, 2023, 02:12:49 PM
Wow, bless you Sir.
Title: Re: K-12 Education
Post by: 847badgerfan on July 26, 2023, 03:15:28 PM
Indeed. 
Title: Re: K-12 Education
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on July 26, 2023, 07:49:12 PM
That's why I don't blame admin for anything.  All the bad news they have to give teachers is dictated by the school board/superintendent or by a lack of monies.
Kind of a middle man, sidetracked by an avalanche of BS while at the same time tasked with perpetual improvements. Yet treated like a QB:  all the credit and all the blame.
No one's job in education is easy and it's getting worse.
Title: Re: K-12 Education
Post by: Cincydawg on July 27, 2023, 08:19:42 AM
I'd call this our worst, most critical national problem, and that's a long list of competition.
Title: Re: K-12 Education
Post by: FearlessF on July 27, 2023, 08:22:34 AM
I'd put mental illness on the top of that list and say that it contributes to the K-12 education issue and all other national issues
Title: Re: K-12 Education
Post by: JerseyTerrapin on July 27, 2023, 11:11:10 AM
That's why I don't blame admin for anything.  All the bad news they have to give teachers is dictated by the school board/superintendent or by a lack of monies.
Kind of a middle man, sidetracked by an avalanche of BS while at the same time tasked with perpetual improvements. Yet treated like a QB:  all the credit and all the blame.
No one's job in education is easy and it's getting worse.

Thank you.  I never thought of it that way.  But yeah, I guess the administrators aren't all coming up with this (we do have one knucklehead, not sure what his exact title is, who loves acronyms and cliches, and never met a "progressive" new layer of standards and rules he didn't like).  And they have to deal with the completely out of control parents just like the teachers do.

My wife would definitely love to have LetsGoPeay come as principal to Washington Township High School...
Title: Re: K-12 Education
Post by: LetsGoPeay on July 27, 2023, 11:51:43 AM
Thank you.  I never thought of it that way.  But yeah, I guess the administrators aren't all coming up with this (we do have one knucklehead, not sure what his exact title is, who loves acronyms and cliches, and never met a "progressive" new layer of standards and rules he didn't like).  And they have to deal with the completely out of control parents just like the teachers do.

My wife would definitely love to have LetsGoPeay come as principal to Washington Township High School...
I appreciate that. 

I abhor the acronyms and institutional lingo. I have a running list of the lingo that I update constantly. My girlfriend and I will pull it out every now and then and laugh about it. She works in construction management and is a project manager for a massive hospital project in Indy. She gets inundated with her fair share of management lingo as well.