CFB51 College Football Fan Community
The Power Five => Big Ten => Topic started by: Riffraft on March 13, 2023, 09:27:19 PM
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Interesting study on the size of college football fan bases
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1MiUOwx8X3H2bSkUOz8a1YhceyJWLLCoJ/view?usp=drivesdkhttps://drive.google.com/file/d/1MiUOwx8X3H2bSkUOz8a1YhceyJWLLCoJ/view?usp=drivesdk (https://drive.google.com/file/d/1MiUOwx8X3H2bSkUOz8a1YhceyJWLLCoJ/view?usp=drivesdk)
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no surprises here for me
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Interesting study on the size of college football fan bases
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1MiUOwx8X3H2bSkUOz8a1YhceyJWLLCoJ/view?usp=drivesdkhttps://drive.google.com/file/d/1MiUOwx8X3H2bSkUOz8a1YhceyJWLLCoJ/view?usp=drivesdk (https://drive.google.com/file/d/1MiUOwx8X3H2bSkUOz8a1YhceyJWLLCoJ/view?usp=drivesdk)
Interesting study. The most recent previous that I know of was by NYT probably 15 years ago.
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I see a strong correlation with number of alumni, with the one exception.
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I see a strong correlation with number of alumni, with the one exception.
ND?
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Yup. Some of the California schools may have large almuni bases and little football fan interest (Cal). Places like UVA and UNC aren't listed for obvious reasons and are substantial universities, and you have places like Georgia State which has over 36,000 students, I'm sure some other urban schools are similar.
The Biggest College Alumni Networks in the U.S - University Magazine (https://www.universitymagazine.ca/the-biggest-college-alumni-networks-in-the-u-s/#:~:text=The Biggest College Alumni Networks in the U.S,... 8 8. Rutgers University ... More items)
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I just looked up student populations in GA, zounds, GaTech is the largest followed by Kennesaw State.
Largest Georgia Colleges and Universities (univstats.com) (https://www.univstats.com/corestats/largest-student-population-in-georgia/#:~:text=University of Georgia has the most students of,of Technology-Main Campus follows them with 36%2C302 students.)
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U.S. college: largest on-campus populations, by undergraduate enrollment 2019 | Statista (https://www.statista.com/statistics/917179/us-college-largest-on-campus-populations-undergraduate-enrollment/#:~:text=As of fall 2019%2C the University of Central,the United States in 2019%2C by undergraduate enrollment)
Two of the three largest on campus pops are in Florida, neither is UF or FSU.
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Let me preface this by saying that I didn't take a deep dive and read their methodology carefully like I did with the previous NYT study (https://archive.nytimes.com/thequad.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/09/19/the-geography-of-college-football-fans-and-realignment-chaos/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed:+nyt/rss/Sports+(NYT+%3E+Sports)&seid=auto&smid=tw-nytimessports).
IIRC, the methodology for the aforementioned NYT study was to analyze clicks on internet pages.
Things that stood out to me:
- As an Ohio State fan I'd love to believe that tOSU has the largest fanbase and that it is nearly half-again as large as #2 Notre Dame and nearly double the size of #5 Michigan but frankly I find both of those propositions hard to believe.
- I also have a hard time believing that there are seven fanbases larger than Alabama's and that Alabama's fanbase is less than half the size of Ohio State's and smaller than Oregon's.
- No offense to Penn State but I've NEVER thought that their fanbase was equal to Michigan's. My anecdotal view was always that Ohio State was competing with Michigan for #1 in the league and that Penn State was a distant third until Nebraska joined. Once Nebraska joined, I assumed that they and Penn State were competing for third.
I'm also not sure how one would go about separating temporary bandwagon fans from more permanent die hard fans. We have guys on here like @rolltidefan (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=12) who I think is an alumnus of the University of Alabama. Even if he isn't, it seems a fair assumption that he'll still be a Bama fan in five or ten years even if Saban retires and their football program falls into a prolonged state of mediocrity. It is the same for me with Ohio State. I've lived in Ohio for 50 years. I'm an alumnus, and I've been a Buckeye fan since before I knew what fans, Buckeyes, or football were. If the Buckeyes suck for the next decade, I'll still be a fan in 2033. That is a different thing than some guy who picked up an Elephant/Brutus t-shirt because he sees the Tide/Buckeyes on TV a lot.
If you didn't click and/or can't read it, their main thrusts are:
- That 50% of CFB fans root for just 16 schools - 12% of teams
- That 75% of CFB fans root for 35 teams - 28% of teams
- That 90% of CFB fans root for 61 teams - 47% of teams (basically this is the P5 with a few exceptions either way)
Their top-16 (50% of CFB) fans are:
- 11.26M, Ohio State
- 8.21M, Notre Dame
- 7.82M, Texas
- 6.36M, Penn State
- 6.26M, Michigan
- 5.89M, Florida
- 5.54M, Oregon
- 5.34M Alabama
- 4.57M, Wisconsin
- 4.46M, USC
- 4.02M, Louisiana State
- 3.99M, Georgia
- 3.87M aTm
- 3.45M, Syracuse
- 3.27M, Auburn
- 3.27M Tennessee
They do not include the LA twins in the B1G but I have added them and here are the 16 B1G schools; after each B1G school I added the corresponding SEC school for comparison:
- 11.26 Ohio State; 7.8 Texas
- 6.36 Penn State; 5.9 Florida
- 6.26 Michigan; 5.3 Bama
- 4.57 Wisconsin; 4.0 LSU
- 4.46 USC; 4.0 UGA
- 3.07 Michigan State; 3.9 aTm
- 2.55 Nebraska; 3.3 Auburn
- 2.36 Iowa; 3.3 Tennessee
- 2.35 UCLA; 3.2 Oklahoma
- 1.91 Maryland; 2.7 USCe
- 1.36 Illinois; 2.6 Mizzou
- 1.26 Minnesota; 2.2 Arkansas
- 1.18 Rutgers; 2.1 UK
- 0.99 Purdue; 1.7 Ole Miss
- 0.82 Northwestern; 1.3 MissSt
- 0.61 Indiana; 0.8 Vandy
I compared to the SEC because none of the others are even remotely close to what is now the "BIG TWO". I found it interesting that according to these guys the B1G's biggest fanbases are bigger. The top-5 B1G schools have larger fanbases than their corresponding SEC schools but after that the drop-off is much less severe in the SEC. From #6-#16 the SEC fanbases are considerably larger.
I would guess that makes the SEC comparatively easier to manage. Since their fanbases are more equal (at least according to this), in theory at least, they should have more similar motivations. Examples (all per this study):
- The top-4 fanbases in the B1G make up more than half of the B1G's fans (55.4%) for the SEC it takes six to get to half.
- The biggest B1G fanbase is bigger than the smallest eight. In the SEC the biggest is bigger than the smallest four.
Their table also makes it VERY clear why the ACC is willing to bend over backwards to please the Irish. Per this study the ACC's average fanbase size is third behind the big two but a humongous chuck of the ACC's fans are Notre Dame fans. They have ND at 8.21M then Syracuse at 3.45M then four schools between 2-3M (Miami, FSU, UNC, Clem), two more over 1M (GT, Pitt) and the other six schools have Indiana/Vanderbilt sized fanbases of <1M.
Finally since we are forever talking about expansion around here, here are some much discussed expansion possibilities:
- 8.21 Notre Dame
- 5.54 Oregon
- 3.45 Syracuse
- 2.74 UNC
- 2.46 Washington
- 2.27 VaTech
- 1.84 WVU
- 1.28 GaTech
- 1.07 Pitt
- 0.89 Stanford
- 0.86 Virginia
- 0.81 Iowa State - there used to be an Iowa fan with a screenname something like itsthehawkeyestate, he was right.
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As for Bama, don't forget that they split the state with Auburn. And Texas with aTm, etc. UM/MSU.
OSU doesn't have that. Wisconsin doesn't have that.
Alabama has 5+ Million people. Ohio has almost 12 Million. Wisconsin 5.9.
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Yup. I think GA is not very split today with Tech/UGA with 11 million residents. I'm guessing they only include adults. Four million "fans" sounds about right for UGA.
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As for Bama, don't forget that they split the state with Auburn. And Texas with aTm, etc. UM/MSU.
OSU doesn't have that. Wisconsin doesn't have that.
Alabama has 5+ Million people. Ohio has almost 12 Million. Wisconsin 5.9.
Another advantage that I think the B1G has (although it has a shelf life) is that given population and migration patterns, I think we have a large, for lack of a better term, diaspora.
The B1G States held a MUCH larger percentage of the nation's population 25, 50, and 75 years ago so there are a LOT of people no longer living here who either graduated from a B1G school or at least grew up rooting for a B1G school. Then there are second and third generation versions of this whose parent or grandparent went to or rooted for a B1G school. Some of these people are still fans of the B1G school.
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I don't understand Oregon being there. At all.
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Yeah, Oregon seems oddly high. Syracuse too. I guess people in NY have to follow somebody though. Idk.
But it’s hard to see Tennessee pack in over 100,000 fans and Syracuse barely get 40k at home games and believe SU has more fans.
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I don't understand Oregon being there. At all.
they have good ganja,good beer,good looking cheerleaders,stoners voted twice
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they have good ganja,good beer,good looking cheerleaders,stoners voted twice
Well the stoners didn't deliberately vote twice to skew the results.
They just forgot they'd voted the first time...
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they have good ganja,good beer,good looking cheerleaders,stoners voted twice
They also have good money, and decent success on the field.
If only using this study. I think the B1G should boot Indiana, Purdue, Northwestern and Rutgers. And invite Notre Dame (The real Chicago University...) Oregon (next largest fan base), Syracuse (replace Rutgers) and Washington (travel partner for Oregon.)
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They also have good money, and decent success on the field.
If only using this study. I think the B1G should boot Indiana, Purdue, Northwestern and Rutgers. And invite Notre Dame (The real Chicago University...) Oregon (next largest fan base), Syracuse (replace Rutgers) and Washington (travel partner for Oregon.)
Florida State, Miami and Virginia.
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It may be true, but I find it hard to believe that Alabama has 2 fanbases larger than Tennessee.
Tenn - pop 7 million
Bama - pop 5 million
The Tide sure....they reach beyond the state for obvious reasons. But Auburn? They seem very, very regional, as in southern Alabama only, in a state 1/3 smaller than TN.
Tennessee isn't splitting fans by any appreciable measure, and have the state to themselves.
Like I said, maybe it's true, but seems odd.
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We don't know how they arrived at the figures, so they could be mostly fabrications. I agree Auburn's fan base probably is closer to that of South Carolina or Ole Miss than Tennessee. UGA at 4 million sounds plausible to me.
It would be fun to see how the figures have evolved over time.
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We don't know how they arrived at the figures, so they could be mostly fabrications. I agree Auburn's fan base probably is closer to that of South Carolina or Ole Miss than Tennessee. UGA at 4 million sounds plausible to me.
It would be fun to see how the figures have evolved over time.
if I were doing it Id take the average graduation class number over the past 40 years and multiplay it by average years graduates live after graduating
plus maybe increasing that number by some multiple to be eaual to family size
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As for this slide (below), do you guys agree with what’s said about Michigan? Perhaps there’s a growing divide according to differing priorities between UM Admins – academics, politics, recruiting a larger international presence within the student body – and the devoted, lifelong Wolverine fans across the Midwest? Maybe there’s a disconnect, but there’s no way Michigan admins disregard just how much their football brand can elevate University. Michigan football might be the most prevalent sports brand across the state, to include the pro sports teams. And if you’re in a city like Phoenix, heavy with transplants from the Great Lakes states and the Rust Belt, the Michigan “M” is more visible than any other sports brand seen from Michigan. When I went to a Diamondbacks interleague baseball game Vs the Tigers last summer, just as many of the visiting team’s fans turning out across the Valley to root for their hometown Tigers were wearing Michigan Wolverines gear. Michigan’s admins know their sports are worth maintaining.
BTW, everything this slide says about Stanford or Cal can also be said about UCLA, though to a lesser extent. The “changing population base” that “has never been engaged by the school” is in reference to the ever increasing Asian population throughout the student body. One point never openly discussed is how the changed demographics of the UCLA student body might be translating to lack of interest in UCLA sports. At UCLA there's little undergrad interest in attending the football games. The population is not just Asian(-American) heavy, but also boasts large foreign Asian numbers (China mostly) who culturally never grew up with football. I don’t expect the Cal Bears to ever be good at football again, or its football program to last another dozen years.
(https://i.imgur.com/YHGbyaY.png)
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I spent about 5 min on UCLA's campus last year, and it was like an Asian hottie conference or something.
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Another fan base that is disappearing is that of Georgia Tech. It's the largest university in the state by student population, and many of them are Chinese/Asian with no affinity for football. Tech once was on a par with UGA in football, arguably ahead of back in the day. They'd have more fans with some success of course, but they have nearly the worst possible situation.
I think GT didn't make the list above because folks forget they exist.
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Michigan being on that list is just stupid. They're not going to take their THOUSAND wins and go pretend they're the University of Chicago or something. UM is an institution in football. A deaf person sees their helmets and knows they're Michigan. A blind person hears their fight song and knows they're Michigan. It's probably the #1 football+academics school in the country.
At-risk my dick.
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yup, Michigan in question is redickerous
Nebraska way down the list is strange at best
Perhaps Fauci put this together with science
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yup, Michigan in question is redickerous
Nebraska way down the list is strange at best
Perhaps Fauci put this together with science
Ha!
(https://i.imgur.com/d1K4Zd3.png)
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yup, Michigan in question is redickerous
But . . . why?
FWIW, as an Ohio State fan I'd love for Michigan to just fall off a cliff in terms of football fanbase and performance (not unrelated) but that isn't why I'm asking. I'm asking more as a general issue. What causes some to fall off an others to stay strong?
In this regard, Michigan has demonstrated the best staying power in the sport. If you thawed out a frozen college football fan from 120 years ago and showed them the 2022 CFP teams I think they'd say:
- Georgia? Really, that is surprising.
- Ohio State? Really, that is surprising too.
- TCU? What does that stand for?
- Michigan, yep, I recognize that name.
My go-to comparison here is always Minnesota.
When the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V8lT1o0sDwI) the Wolverines already had 15 league titles and Minnesota won their 16th a few weeks prior to the attack. The Gophers' 1941 League title was their 16th overall, second consecutive, fourth in five years, and seventh in nine years.
During the war Michigan caught back up to Minnesota, winning their 16th in 1943. Then, in the immediate post-war period Michigan pulled ahead for good with four straight league titles from 1947-1950. Three were outright with the 1949 title shared with the upstart (and they were very much upstarts back then) Buckeyes. The last of those (1950) was won in a blizzard in Columbus in a game ever-after known as the Snow Bowl.
Then for the bulk of the 1950's and 1960's BOTH programs faded to near-irrelevance. In the 18 years from 1951-1968 Michigan won only one league title (1964 outright) while Minnesota won two (1960, 1967 both shared). For comparison, league titles from 1951-1968:
- 5 Ohio State
- 3 Illinois
- 3 Wisconsin
- 3 Iowa
- 3 Michigan State
- 2 Purdue
- 2 Minnesota
- 1 Michigan
When the Gophers won their 18th league title in 1967 (split with IU and PU) they were second in the league behind only Michigan (21) and note that they they only trailed #1 Michigan by three titles while leading #3 (tOSU and IL with 12 each) by six titles. In the 55 seasons since Minnesota, Indiana, and Purdue split the title in 1967:
- 27 Ohio State
- 23 Michigan
- 6 Wisconsin
- 6 Michigan State
- 5 Iowa
- 4 Penn State
- 3 Illinois
- 3 Northwestern
- 1 Purdue
- 0 Indiana, Minnesota, Nebraska, Maryland, Rutgers
Michigan faded into mediocrity in the 1950's and 1960's, hired Bo Schembehler, and came back. Minnesota faded into mediocrity in the 1940's and they are still there. Why?
To make the comparison even more glaring, Michigan now appears to have returned from the brink twice. Big Ten Football started in 1896 so there have been 127 seasons of it. Michigan has won 44 league titles which works out to a little better than one every three years. That is impressive. However, it is even more impressive when you back out the years that they won no titles surrounding their temporary exit from the league (no titles in the 11 years from 1907-1917) and their two major dips (1 title in 18 years from 1951-1968 and no titles in 16 years from 2005-2020) you are left with 43 titles in 82 years, a blistering pace of roughly one title every other year.
Imagine a Minnesota fan born in 1929. The year that he turned 12 his Gophers won their 7th title of his lifetime. He is now 94 and he's only seen two more titles both of which occurred when he was in his 30's.
Michigan has endured not one but two nearly 20-year long periods of mediocrity just in the postwar era and returned to winning titles after both. What caused Michigan to get back to winning and/or what prevented Minnesota from doing the same?
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The answer is usually a difference in commitment of resources to the program. But I don't know anything specifically about Minnesota wrt Michigan, of course.
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I wonder how many bandwagon fans there are
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I wonder how many bandwagon fans there are
Lots, I'm sure.
ND didn't get its enormous fan base from graduates and their families. Every Catholic sports fan I know, roots for Notre Dame, regardless of where they went to college.
And I'm not sure if it's exactly true but I read somewhere that Austin metro is the largest population center without a pro sports franchise in any of the major US sports, and I'd believe that. Which has resulted in UT serving as the de facto local rooting interest for many of the transplants that move here.
Then there's people that just like a winner-- Ohio State has done that more consistently and longer than any other school out there, and Alabama has been nearly unstoppable for the past decade and a half, which has helped both of those schools build large national followings outside their state borders.
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Lots, I'm sure.
ND didn't get its enormous fan base from graduates and their families. Every Catholic sports fan I know, roots for Notre Dame, regardless of where they went to college.
And I'm not sure if it's exactly true but I read somewhere that Austin metro is the largest population center without a pro sports franchise in any of the major US sports, and I'd believe that. Which has resulted in UT serving as the de facto local rooting interest for many of the transplants that move here.
Then there's people that just like a winner-- Ohio State has done that more consistently and longer than any other school out there, and Alabama has been nearly unstoppable for the past decade and a half, which has helped both of those schools build large national followings outside their state borders.
Yep. Just as anyone who is Irish roots for them too. Although of course there's a lot of overlap there with Irish + Catholic lol... But I always found it odd how many ND fans lived on the South Side of Chicago, had never been to college (much less at ND), and probably had never been to South Bend and couldn't find South Bend on a map despite living <100 mi from campus.
It might be strange but I take a bit of pride in not being a team with bandwagon fans. Pretty much every Purdue fan is either an alum or family to an alum.
In the state of IN, literally nobody roots for Purdue except for those categories. The ones who don't go to college root for Notre Dame for football, and/or Indiana for basketball. And again, often both--the ones we call the "reversible jacket" fans. ND for football season, IU for basketball season. MAYBE you have a few Lafayette townies who are Purdue fans. But I don't think it's a high number.
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I wish 538 or somebody did a deep dive on fandom.
I think bandwagon fandom would be easy to quantify, because most of them aren't fans of anyone until they're a fan of the team of the moment.
I doubt there are many that hop from one program to another (anti-portal, if you will).
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My personal fandom started young and never wavered, even when my state didn't have a pro team in a certain sport, the teams sucked, or when an expansion team was born in the city I was living in.
I never liked the idea of cheering for the most popular, 'cool' team.
I guess it would have been okay, if I stuck with that team for the next 30+ years, though. Idk.
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Anecdotally, my experiences are mixed.
Personally, I'm a fan of a team for life. I became a Longhorns fan because both of my parents graduated from UT, I was born and raised in Austin, and they took me to UT sporting events all the time. I went to UT because they gave me a full ride and because it was excellent in my chosen field of study, so I sometimes wonder what would have happened to my fandom, if I'd gone to school somewhere else? I came fairly close to going to the Air Force Academy, and I got wait-listed at Stanford. But I suspect I would still root for Texas, since neither of those schools are direct rivals and just about never play Texas in most sports.
And I'll also always be a Dallas Cowboys fan-- it helps that they were actually good during my youth, but we also always used to meet our cousins from Fort Worth at my grandparents' house in Temple on Sunday afternoons, and watch the Cowboys with the whole family. Those are some strong memories for me, comforting memories, so I'll always have a place in my heart for Dallas, no matter how bad they get.
But I know people that are definitely bandwagoners. My nephew who is about 20 years younger, was raised as an Aggie. But he then went to Tech and now hates the Aggies. His first pro football fandom was the Baltimore Ravens, simply because they won the first Superbowl he remembers. But he also roots for other random teams like the Rams and whoever else happened to be good at some point during his youth. In that sense he's a true bandwagoner.
And then some people switch allegiances based on where they live, after they move. I have a friend who grew up in Austin and was a Dallas Cowboys fan along with me and our friend group, but he moved to DC about 15 years ago and now he's a Washington Whatevers fan, and actively roots against the Cowboys.
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That's so odd to me.
It's more fun being a fan of a team that everyone around you isn't a fan of (aka for Florida in AZ).
Now, my friend's daughter is going to be attending Arizona this year, so that will sway me in the Arizona vs ASU thing, but nothing more.
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But to be a fan of a team only to cheer against them later in life.....HUH?
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That's so odd to me.
It's more fun being a fan of a team that everyone around you isn't a fan of (aka for Florida in AZ).
Now, my friend's daughter is going to be attending Arizona this year, so that will sway me in the Arizona vs ASU thing, but nothing more.
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But to be a fan of a team only to cheer against them later in life.....HUH?
Agree, it's super-weird to me, too.
I also don't understand people who claim to be a fan of a team, but then root against that team because of some stupid fantasy football matchup of the week. If you EVER root against your team, for any reason, then you're just not a fan. Don't call yourself that.
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Yeah, there's no point in being "loyal" to a professional franchise that can just pack up and move to another state overnight.
It's mindless entertainment, just follow the teams that are covered in your market.
People don't continue to follow a team after it moves out of their city. So why continue to follow a team when you move out of that city?
And yes of course, college is different. A lot different.
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Yeah, there's no point in being "loyal" to a professional franchise that can just pack up and move to another state overnight.
It's mindless entertainment, just follow the teams that are covered in your market.
People don't continue to follow a team after it moves out of their city. So why continue to follow a team when you move out of that city?
And yes of course, college is different. A lot different.
I'm trying to get the Badgers to move down here. They are thinking about it. Nice weather, lower taxes, easy bowl game travel.
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Fandom is just another form of tribalism. At its core, it doesn't really make any sense, to feel passionately about a game being played by people you don't know and will never know.
And yet here we are.
There aren't any rules, it's all about the way people feel. I don't understand a person that roots for one team for 30 years, and then switches to its archrival, just because they changed their own personal geography.
And there are people out there that don't understand why I care at all about ANY game being played by 17-23 year-olds. That makes no sense to them.
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I've found a lot of peace by giving up fandom.
Initially it was the Bears. I grew up in Chicago. I was 7 years old when they won the Super Bowl, used to watch a VHS tape my dad had bought all the time that was a season recap, and still have a soft spot in my heart for the Super Bowl Shuffle.
But then, after decades of ineptitude, it became hard. And then they finally gave me a reason to root for them (got Kyle Orton), but got rid of him for Jay Cutler, and I gave up. Now I watch NFL football for enjoyment, but I'm not truly a "fan" of any NFL team. I don't have to care either way--and per 94, now I can root for my fantasy players in peace without worrying whether a player going off against "my team" will give me a personally good outcome but "my team" lose.
You all know what happened to me with Purdue, of course. I took losses too hard. That might be okay if there was ever an opposite "payoff" in the end, but Purdue never gave it to me. It's not like I ever thought Purdue was likely in any given year to go to the Rose Bowl or make the CFP, but with conference expansion, a CCG, etc I tend to believe it's basically something they'll never see in my lifetime. They *should* make up for that on the hardcourt, but, again, we all know how that's turned out. I got all the pain of the losses, and all I ever felt in wins was relief, not joy. It was irrational not to get out of that abusive relationship.
So I gave up. Now I don't feel anything, and that's a hell of a lot easier.
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you're soft
;)
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I wish 538 or somebody did a deep dive on fandom.
I think bandwagon fandom would be easy to quantify, because most of them aren't fans of anyone until they're a fan of the team of the moment.
I doubt there are many that hop from one program to another (anti-portal, if you will).
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My personal fandom started young and never wavered, even when my state didn't have a pro team in a certain sport, the teams sucked, or when an expansion team was born in the city I was living in.
I never liked the idea of cheering for the most popular, 'cool' team.
I guess it would have been okay, if I stuck with that team for the next 30+ years, though. Idk.
I'm as unwavering as you and bandwagon fans generally annoy me. That said, in defense of bandwagon fans:
Some people become fans of the 'team of the moment' but end up sticking with them through thick and thin. I have a HS buddy who was like this. He became a Dallas Cowboys fan when they were really good but he is STILL a Cowboys fan and has been for 30+ years of both good and bad seasons.
I certainly wouldn't call him a bandwagon fan now, but initially he was. That would be REALLY tough to quantify.
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I guess I'd say "true" bandwagoners will switch allegiances along with the fortunes of the team. My nephew does this, he was a Ravens fan when they won a Superbowl, but when they started sucking he switched to the next good team, and the next. He justifies it by claiming he follows players more closely than teams, and he'll pick out a player or two that he really likes. But he doesn't ever seem to pick out a good player, on a bad team, and make his rooting decisions based on that... :)
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Yeah, there's no point in being "loyal" to a professional franchise that can just pack up and move to another state overnight.
I learned this the hard way, probably the same way you did.
The NFL lost me with that move and I never went back. I watch the SuperBowl but mostly for the ads and I typically have to look it up to even figure out which teams are playing. My SuperBowl rooting decision is typically made by looking up the former Buckeyes on the two teams and rooting for whichever team gets the most contribution from Buckeyes.
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Yeah I can see that. I suppose if the Cowboys ever left the state, I might feel similarly.
And my rooting interest in pro teams is only a small fraction compared to my rooting interest in my college team, but I still like to watch and follow when I have time.
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Yeah I can see that. I suppose if the Cowboys ever left the state, I might feel similarly.
And my rooting interest in pro teams is only a small fraction compared to my rooting interest in my college team, but I still like to watch and follow when I have time.
Prior to the Browns' move I was a pro sports fan at almost the level of my college football fandom, as a fan of all of Cleveland's franchises.
After the Browns' move I became a "fair weather" Cleveland sports fan. Some may not see it this way, but I see being a "fair weather" fan as being distinct from being a "bandwagon" fan. The distinction is that my fandom doesn't hop from team to team. However, I don't follow "my" pro teams unless they are winning. The way I see it is that they aren't loyal to me so I'll watch them when they give me something worth watching and when they don't, I'll do something else.
NFL:
I'm a fair weather Browns fan but for all intents and purposes that means I'm not a fan at all because the last fair weather was decades ago.
MLB:
I used to be a fair weather Indians fan but I can't find any recent information about the Indians so apparently I no longer have a team.
NBA:
I'm a fair weather Cavs fan but I don't expect to ever see fair weather in Cleveland again. Also, I only ever follow the Cavs in the second round of the playoffs and beyond. They literally send more than half of the NBA's teams to the playoffs. Thus, as I see it, if my team makes it to the second round of the playoffs, I'll pick it up from there. If they don't, the season sucked so I didn't miss anything.
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That's so odd to me.
It's more fun being a fan of a team that everyone around you isn't a fan of (aka for Florida in AZ).
Now, my friend's daughter is going to be attending Arizona this year, so that will sway me in the Arizona vs ASU thing, but nothing more.
I lived in a lot of places growing up, and my only fandom that stuck was for the Gators, which ended up waning anyway a decade ago during my student years at University of Arizona.
Grandpa would let us kids finish watching Saturday morning cartoons and then turn the TV to College Football for the day. Spent my very youngest years watching Spurrier’s Gators. I can still remember beating Tennessee over and over - won’t ever feel that hyped about sports again.
Discarded the Dolphins for the Cowboys when we moved to Oklahoma and Texas. Rooted for Oklahoma St Cowboys sports until moving to Texas where the Longhorns and Aggies owned the sports scene. My teachers through my middle school grades were a mix of Longhorns and Aggies fans.
Then following the Rams while living in St Louis. Hawaii football while stationed at Pearl Harbor. I could go on, but point is the teams I followed depended on where I happened to be living. Now as an Alum of Arizona I’ll always carry them around, and still go to their sporting events - basketball and football, as well as about one Arizona State football game a year.
My fandom is more of a social thing than an emotional state now. I am with the Purdue fan at this point. I don’t ever want to be as emotionally invested in sports, to the point that a loss can leave me upset for more than a day, but I watch sports as much as ever, and attend sporting events more than ever. Hoping to finally catch a Longhorns or Aggies home game this season.
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I have been loyal, in general, to the teams that I grew up with.
College - Being born and raised in Columbus with fanatical parents when it came to the Buckeyes, I had no choice. Ultimately did my undergrad degree at OSU, so tried, true, going nowhere.
NFL. I was 4yos when the Browns last won the NFL, I have seen them thru all the ups and downs for all that time. While Fandom is not as strong as the Buckeyes, I still wear Browns hats and T-shirts and generally don't miss a game. Actually flew into Ohio last year to watch a game live, though I probably wouldn't have done that if I hadn't gone to the OSU-UM game the day before.
MLB-This is the one place where I changed fandom. I was 9yos when the Mets won the world Series and I became a fan of Tom Seaver. Stayed a Mets fan until they trade Tom to the Reds and I switched to the Reds. Stayed a Reds fan after Tom left to go to the White Sox, probably because they were a relatively local team for me. Not an over the top baseball fan with Reds doing so poorly and no signs of getting better.
NBA-I became a Celtics fan when I was a kid because they were winning, but also because Havelicek went to Ohio State. Stayed a fan until I stopped watching the NBA about the time that Byrd and Johnson retired.
Being in the Phoenix area, there are quite a few people who have become fans of the local teams in spite of not being from here (almost nobody is from here). Personally I can't understand changing who you are a fan of because you moved away from the team you are a fan of.
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I lived in a lot of places growing up, and my only fandom that stuck was for the Gators, which ended up waning anyway a decade ago during my student years at University of Arizona.
Grandpa would let us kids finish watching Saturday morning cartoons and then turn the TV to College Football for the day. Spent my very youngest years watching Spurrier’s Gators. I can still remember beating Tennessee over and over - won’t ever feel that hyped about sports again.
Discarded the Dolphins for the Cowboys when we moved to Oklahoma and Texas. Rooted for Oklahoma St Cowboys sports until moving to Texas where the Longhorns and Aggies owned the sports scene. My teachers through my middle school grades were a mix of Longhorns and Aggies fans.
Then following the Rams while living in St Louis. Hawaii football while stationed at Pearl Harbor. I could go on, but point is the teams I followed depended on where I happened to be living. Now as an Alum of Arizona I’ll always carry them around, and still go to their sporting events - basketball and football, as well as about one Arizona State football game a year.
My fandom is more of a social thing than an emotional state now. I am with the Purdue fan at this point. I don’t ever want to be as emotionally invested in sports, to the point that a loss can leave me upset for more than a day, but I watch sports as much as ever, and attend sporting events more than ever. Hoping to finally catch a Longhorns or Aggies home game this season.
If you end up in Austin let me know.
Also, you should try to get to the TX-OU game at the Cotton Bowl in Dallas, too. It's a spectacle of incredible proportions.
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Being in the Phoenix area, there are quite a few people who have become fans of the local teams in spite of not being from here (almost nobody is from here).
I mentioned upthread my theory that the Big Ten has something of a "disapora" of fans made up of former residents and decendents of former residents. Your comment about nobody being from Phoenix is representative of the massive scale of the population migration over the past 80 years or so.
In the 1940 census Arizona was the 43rd most populous state with less than half a million people. All of the following cities in the (current, not then) B1G footprint had more people in 1940 than the entire state of Arizona:
- 3.4M, Chicago
- 1.9M, Philly
- 1.6M, Detroit
- 0.9M, Cleveland
- 0.9M, Baltimore
- 0.7M, Pittsburgh
- 0.6M, Milwaukee
Additionally, Minneapolis, Cincinnati, and Newark each had a population in excess of 400k so nearly as great as the entire state of Arizona.
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The fan bases that are interesting to me are the SoCal schools, USC and UCLA. You'd think that in a megalopolis of almost 13M people (basically LA County and Orange County) and potentially up to 18.5M people (adding Ventura, Riverside, and San Bernardino counties), you'd have MASSIVE fan bases around here. But you don't.
There are some similar aspects that you find to Arizona (lots of transplants), but also a lot of other aspects involved.
Some of the things that I think are involved:
- A huge portion of people here are transplants, either domestic or internationally. The domestic transplants come with their own rooting interests already established.
- Very large immigrant population here, with no real connection to college sports.
- Very large Latino population, many who are more interested in futbol than football.
- Significant pro sports footprint, although there was obviously a long period where the NFL was not represented. The Lakers and the Dodgers are huge.
- Big ones--although UCLA and USC are premier schools in the state of California, their enrollment numbers are miniscule in relation to population size. So most locals end up at different UC campuses, or Cal State schools, Cal Poly, private universities not named USC, etc. So although they may have an affinity for one of the two football schools, it's not remotely as "personal" as having attended or being the child of someone who attended. This is a lot different than a low-population Midwest or Southern school where you have a flagship or co-flagship universities that everyone aspires to attend. It's diluted here.
- A billion other things to do here that aren't sports, whether college OR pro, so it's not like sports is the only attraction for peoples' time.
The end result is a bunch of fair-weather fans (rather than bandwagon). They will get excited when the schools have long stretches of good play (like USC in the 2000s), but beyond that they don't actually care enough to show up when the teams aren't good. Because it's not PERSONAL to any of them.
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- Very large immigrant population here, with no real connection to college sports.
- Very large Latino population, many who are more interested in futbol than football.
I think that this is a huge and typically vastly underappreciated factor.
Looking at the 2020 census, Ohio remains almost exclusively White (80%) and Black (14%). There are only a handful of Hispanics, Asians, and others. By contrast in California Blacks and Whites make up less than half of the population combined.
I'm sure there are Asian and Hispanic CFB fans (I've known a few) but my guess is that CFB fandom is substantially less prevalent among Hispanics and Asians than it is among Blacks and Whites. I would also guess that the vast majority of Hispanic and Asian CFB fans are alums who picked up their fandom in school. It is a lot different for Blacks and Whites many of whom grew up rooting for a CFB team.
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Texas is 40% hispanic/latino and no problem with them becoming football fans. They love them some Vaqueros! :)
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The Vegas Hispanics are ALL IN on their NHL team, which is kind of interesting. Every last one of them is decked out from head to toe in Golden Knights gear at all times. Maybe they just like the logo, I dunno, but if that's it then they must REALLY like the logo.
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I got rid of letting a loss affect my mood after the game.......buuuut it's probably best I watch the game alone, lol.
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The crowd here at soccer games is 80+% Hispanic, they get into it. And they do pretty well on attendance.
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I got rid of letting a loss affect my mood after the game.......buuuut it's probably best I watch the game alone, lol.
my rabid emotional fanatical tie to wins and losses started to wane around 2000
First of all I was getting close to 40 years old, but more importantly, the Huskers had enjoyed their MNC run in the 90s and I decided I could die a happy man if they never won anything else.
I remember a Badger fan being a bit surprised when I was up for a few post game drinks after a night game in Madison where the Huskers were embarrassed. He assumed I'd hole up in my hotel room and sulk.
He looked at me and said, "You're a good sport".
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I think over time, most learn how to accept a loss, even a bad loss, with some philosophy.
The Dawgs have experienced some really bad losses over the past decade, often to Alabama.
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I got rid of letting a loss affect my mood after the game.......buuuut it's probably best I watch the game alone, lol.
I resemble this remark
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First of all I was getting close to 40 years old, but more importantly, the Huskers had enjoyed their MNC run in the 90s and I decided I could die a happy man if they never won anything else.
Well at least your team has actually won, well, ANYTHING, in your lifetime.
My biggest "win" as a fan was getting to attend a Rose Bowl, where we lost.
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If winning an NC in football is your only definition of success, well, life could be tough. A fair number of B1G teams have some shot at going to a Rose Bowl every two decades or so. That's a great year for many of them.
Michigan fans are having a tough go of it though they beat their 1° rival twice, which is great, but expectations ....
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(https://i.imgur.com/tWt7nRy.png)
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Well at least your team has actually won, well, ANYTHING, in your lifetime.
My biggest "win" as a fan was getting to attend a Rose Bowl, where we lost.
my trip to the Rose Bowl to watch the Huskers was fine.
I expected to lose to that Miami squad. I went for the experience
Glad I did, I thought then and it may come to pass as my only opportunity.
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my rabid emotional fanatical tie to wins and losses started to wane around 2000
First of all I was getting close to 40 years old, but more importantly, the Huskers had enjoyed their MNC run in the 90s and I decided I could die a happy man if they never won anything else.
I remember a Badger fan being a bit surprised when I was up for a few post game drinks after a night game in Madison where the Huskers were embarrassed. He assumed I'd hole up in my hotel room and sulk.
He looked at me and said, "You're a good sport".
Yeah, it was in my 30s where I unplugged the game outcome from my emotions when the game was over. I just think, "welp, they weren't good enough to win," and move on about my life.
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And I can also say I witnessed the peak of my program at a great age (16-28) and the Gators will probably never repeat that in my lifetime. But I still focus on every play of every game, even when things are going sideways. Most of my extended family are UGA fans, so we have some ribbing back and forth after the WLOCP or any NCs.
Fun Fact: Florida is the last team to beat UGA in the regular season (2020).