CFB51 College Football Fan Community
The Power Five => Big Ten => Topic started by: Big Beef Tacosupreme on August 23, 2017, 01:46:46 PM
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So enough of the "haven't played a single game yet" optimism. I figured I'd start a thread for the "glass is half empty" crowd.
For Penn State: Linebacker depth is still a huge concern. Penn State played 3 games when down a significant number of starting linebackers. Pitt (42 points allowed), Michigan (49 points), and USC (52 points).
Cabinda is back, and should be solid. Manny Bowen is average. Koa Farmer was a safety playing linebacker last year, and has now bulked up to be a linebacker full time. Brandon Smith (walk on) played admirably last year filling in for injured players. Beyond these 4 players (which is a below average B1G LB unit, IMO), is pool of true freshman and walk on players.
For Ohio State: I had the opportunity to download and watch some OSU games. It was absolutely stunning to see how much of the offense went through Curtis Samuel. Now he's gone.
The offensive line looked average, and the wide receivers (outside of Samuel) weren't exactly great. JT Barrett is amazing at extending the play and getting yards with his feet, but he really struggled to find open guys. Weber is OK, but there's probably 5 better backs in the league.
For all of the recruiting stars Ohio State has, I'm actually shocked at how average their offense really looks. Granted, maybe a lot of their problems will be fixed with the new offensive coordinator.
Let's hear some of yours. I've got more I'll add later.
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Michigan - for sure a young secondary on defense and young WR corps on offense. Those are the two biggest concerns to me.
After that it's probably proven, viable DL depth. Starting 4 should be excellent, there is young talent there but it's untested. Need Lawrence Marshall to really step up this year as a JR and provide a spark off the bench. And also OL. That Grant Newsome knee injury really put a wrench in this seasons OL. Newsome was looking like a guy that was on the verge of being a star LT. Now he probably won't be back until next year and if he does comeback he might never be the same. OL is kinda shaky.
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Nebraska: WR depth. UNL has lost basically 4 kids due to quitting, injury or dad pulling them off campus... That leaves 4 scholarship WR's for the 2017 season. OL youth is also a concern. Appears the depth is better than years past and UNL won't be starting a center that is the size of most TE (only much shorter), but they'll be young too. How will they hold up and how long will it take for them to grow up?
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Depth is terrible across the board except at RB. Pass rush (both DE and LB) looks to be as bad as last year. I also worry greatly about the athleticism of our safeties. I think they are experienced and sound enough, but that doesn't get you too far if you get matched up on a slot WR.
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agree with Entropy
I will add the D-Line as well. Not suited for the 3-4 defense. No true nose. Also young and little depth.
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Michigan's "weaknesses" are better than the starters for most Big Ten teams.
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Michigan's "weaknesses" are better than the starters for most Big Ten teams.
c'mon now, let's not go there, shall we?
There is a TON of talent on Michigan's roster. But it's young. It's going to take time to develop.
The saving grace is the schedule. Most of the games are at home and the OOC schedule is pretty light.
DL depth is definitely a real weakness. Lawrence Marshall is a JR who hasn't done squat and the rest of the guys are highly rated but they are all first or second year players. Takes a couple years for DL's to really develop.
CB and WR is LOADED with young talent, but those guys haven't played. They aren't going to come out of the gate playing like stars. It's going to take all of them time to adapt.
And OL is definitely a concern. The only saving grace there in my eyes is they have not one but TWO really good OL coaches in Frey and Drevno. Offensive tackle is a huge concern. They had to move Mason Cole to LT because of the injury to Newsome. With Newsome, the OL is probably a different story. Mason Cole can get by at LT, he's a startable LT, but he's not a future NFL player at LT. Newsome was looking like he was on that track to be the next one since Lewan to get serious NFL attention. OL is definitely a concern.
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Michigan's "weaknesses" are better than the starters for most Big Ten teams.
Is this like saying "I care too much," in an interview where they ask you your biggest weakness.
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Purdue:
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Yes
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Mostly depth concerns for UW, except the WR position really, which has one proven player and a lot of question marks. The TE's will probably cover for a lot of catches this season.
Depth concerns include QB (critical), OL* (serious on the outside, fair in the middle), CB (fair) and S (fair).
All the other position are pretty stacked.
*There are some new kids in the OL room that are really good. Whether or not 'shirts need to get torched remains to be seen. If the starters stay healthy, lots of 'shirts will be saved.
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Purdue:
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Yes
LOL...
Purdue:
OL - I said earlier that Brohm calling them "average" excited me
WR - Lost everyone, relying on transfers, career backups, and frosh
DB - who knows?
DL - not sure the starters are B1G-level, and there's no depth
LB depth - starters are one of our strongest position groups - nobody behind them
If Brohm can get to 6 wins, he'd better win B1G COY. Maybe even national COY. That'd be a damn miracle.
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For Ohio State: I had the opportunity to download and watch some OSU games. It was absolutely stunning to see how much of the offense went through Curtis Samuel. Now he's gone.
The offensive line looked average, and the wide receivers (outside of Samuel) weren't exactly great. JT Barrett is amazing at extending the play and getting yards with his feet, but he really struggled to find open guys. Weber is OK, but there's probably 5 better backs in the league.
For all of the recruiting stars Ohio State has, I'm actually shocked at how average their offense really looks. Granted, maybe a lot of their problems will be fixed with the new offensive coordinator.
Good observations and I agree.JTB will run into trouble with a stout defense that will force him to throw the long ball.Coaches will have to get creative with the QB depth.I certainly see PSU & M attempting to take away the short stuff.Barret will look good vs over matched opponents because he could tuck it and run.Last half vs PSU then games vs M & Clemson exposed it.Samuel & the defense dug OSU out in tight spots.The defense still can but if the offense can't stretch the field it'll finish like last season IMO
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LOL...
Purdue:
OL - I said earlier that Brohm calling them "average" excited me
WR - Lost everyone, relying on transfers, career backups, and frosh
DB - who knows?
DL - not sure the starters are B1G-level, and there's no depth
LB depth - starters are one of our strongest position groups - nobody behind them
If Brohm can get to 6 wins, he'd better win B1G COY. Maybe even national COY. That'd be a damn miracle.
Agree with all this. After reading about camp, I'd be happy if we win more than 1 game. Roster is completely destroyed.
Great 1st team LBs, nobody behind. One injury throws this postion from strength to weakness
QB - maybe a strength, but can the OL protect them? Can OL block for run game? Can WR get open and catch?
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For NU, depth is always a problem
If we lose starters to injury or fatigue, our backups are often inexperienced, wide-eyed young'uns
I do like our running back situation (there are some studs-in-waiting behind Justin Jackson) but the QBs backing up Clayton Thorson are meh at best
BTN peeps keep talking about our suspect O-Line ... hopefully that's improved 'cuz I believe Thorson was often either sacked or running for his life the last 2 years.
And given that our starting DBs have historically been burned on the long ball, I can't imagine how exposed that position will be if backups have to be inserted.
Finally (and this is probably true of most CFB teams), we tend to play up as well as down to the opponent
- unfortunately, this can and does lead to WTF losses to the Illinois States of the world :41:
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Iowa:
Wide Receiver: Iowa had huge problems at this position a year ago. Matt Vandeberg was sidelined in the 3rd game last year with an injury. Starter Jerminic Smith left the program for academic reasons.
Matt Vandeberg, Iowa's leading receiver 2-years ago, is back for his 6th year of eligibility. He did not participate fully in the Kids Game open practice a few weeks ago. He is not doing a full load of practice, yet. He broke the same bone in his foot 2x in a year. We'll see.
Ron Nash returns -- a walk-on -- the only WR to actually receive a pass in his Iowa career, other than Vandeberg. He caught two.
Iowa got a graduate transfer WR from New Mexico in Matt Quarels. He had 13 catches in 2-years there. New Mexico ran the triple option. Quarrels was a 3* receiver out of high school. We will see.
Iowa also got a junior college transfer Nick Easley. He was a junior college All American -- we'll see if he can transition to FBS.
Quarterback: This position is an open competition. It appears Nathan Stanley, last year's backup has the upper hand on the strength of 5 of 14 passes for 24 yards in the spring game - sheesh. Tyler Wiegers was 10-of-30 for 80 yards with 3-interceptions.
Defensive Back: Brandon Snyder starter at FS is out for the season with a torn ACL. Iowa is replacing both corners (Desmond King and Greg Mabin). Manny Rugamba is suspended from corner back for the first game against Wyoming. Wyoming's QB is supposedly favored to be the top pick in the NFL draft. Phil Parker is a great defensive coordinator, and coached DBs. I think Iowa will be alright at DB, after the Wyoming game.
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c'mon now, let's not go there, shall we?
There is a TON of talent on Michigan's roster. But it's young. It's going to take time to develop.
The saving grace is the schedule. Most of the games are at home and the OOC schedule is pretty light.
DL depth is definitely a real weakness. Lawrence Marshall is a JR who hasn't done squat and the rest of the guys are highly rated but they are all first or second year players. Takes a couple years for DL's to really develop.
CB and WR is LOADED with young talent, but those guys haven't played. They aren't going to come out of the gate playing like stars. It's going to take all of them time to adapt.
And OL is definitely a concern. The only saving grace there in my eyes is they have not one but TWO really good OL coaches in Frey and Drevno. Offensive tackle is a huge concern. They had to move Mason Cole to LT because of the injury to Newsome. With Newsome, the OL is probably a different story. Mason Cole can get by at LT, he's a startable LT, but he's not a future NFL player at LT. Newsome was looking like he was on that track to be the next one since Lewan to get serious NFL attention. OL is definitely a concern.
Pick who you think will be the starters for Michigan at OL, CB, WR, and the two deep at DL. Now what equivalent units at which B1G schools would you swap them for?
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Buckeyes were one dimensional on offense last year, though they still led the conference in total offense. Losing Samuel doesn't help, but they have guys who can make plays. The real issue is whether Kevin Wilson can bring the passing offense up to be efficient.
Secondary is a question mark for OSU. Don't expect them to be bad, but losing three first rounders doesn't help. Also, punting could be an issue. Cam Johnston was pretty reliable, not sure what we have there now.
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Agree with all this. After reading about camp, I'd be happy if we win more than 1 game. Roster is completely destroyed.
I'm still putting the o/u at about 3 games.
I think we beat Ohio.
Rutgers may be trending up, but they should still be bad. Illinois is IMHO a mess and I have no trust in Lovie. Indiana is breaking in a new coach that is defensive-minded, so the high-flying Wilson offense may be gone. Mizzou is a complete unknown. With the exception of Mizzou, all of those games come in the 2nd half of the schedule when hopefully Purdue is starting to come together.
Could we get 2 games out of those 4? Could we have some shocking upset game where it all magically comes together and beat someone not in the above list?
We're not going to be good, but I think with Brohm's offense, there's upside that we didn't have with Hazell, even if our talent and depth aren't where we want them to be. If nothing else, I expect us to be a lot more exciting in our losses...
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Pick who you think will be the starters for Michigan at OL, CB, WR, and the two deep at DL. Now what equivalent units at which B1G schools would you swap them for?
I think you're missing the point of this thread.
Also, that's just crazy talk.
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So I think we've covered most of the contenders. Maybe Minnesota?
So I didn't watch too much MN football last year. Although they return a lot of starters, they lost their QB. Leidner wasn't that good last year (11th in the conference in QB rating, 10th in completion %, 3rd in interceptions), which tells me the second string guy was probably a worse option. If so, I don't see MN getting over the hump this year, even though they return a fair amount of starters.
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I think you're missing the point of this thread.
Also, that's just crazy talk.
WR and CB? Long term? Sure. This year? At least half the conference for both.
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So enough of the "haven't played a single game yet" optimism. I figured I'd start a thread for the "glass is half empty" crowd.
For Penn State: Linebacker depth is still a huge concern. Penn State played 3 games when down a significant number of starting linebackers. Pitt (42 points allowed), Michigan (49 points), and USC (52 points).
Cabinda is back, and should be solid. Manny Bowen is average. Koa Farmer was a safety playing linebacker last year, and has now bulked up to be a linebacker full time. Brandon Smith (walk on) played admirably last year filling in for injured players. Beyond these 4 players (which is a below average B1G LB unit, IMO), is pool of true freshman and walk on players.
For Ohio State: I had the opportunity to download and watch some OSU games. It was absolutely stunning to see how much of the offense went through Curtis Samuel. Now he's gone.
The offensive line looked average, and the wide receivers (outside of Samuel) weren't exactly great. JT Barrett is amazing at extending the play and getting yards with his feet, but he really struggled to find open guys. Weber is OK, but there's probably 5 better backs in the league.
For all of the recruiting stars Ohio State has, I'm actually shocked at how average their offense really looks. Granted, maybe a lot of their problems will be fixed with the new offensive coordinator.
Let's hear some of yours. I've got more I'll add later.
OSU had as good a run blocking line as their was. Their issue was one weak link in pass blocking on the right side. That player is going to be key this year...allegedly back and much better technically and confidence wise. We shall see, because JT was 75% completion rate when kept clean. WRs look much better when the timing works.
I also like their RB tandem a lot more than you do, and even more if McCall gets carries and doesn't just play the H spot.
Inexperience in the secondary and WR is their two clear areas to watch. Tons of big recruits but not much game production in a couple of the spots, besides Ward and Webb on corner and Safety.
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So I think we've covered most of the contenders. Maybe Minnesota?
So I didn't watch too much MN football last year. Although they return a lot of starters, they lost their QB. Leidner wasn't that good last year (11th in the conference in QB rating, 10th in completion %, 3rd in interceptions), which tells me the second string guy was probably a worse option. If so, I don't see MN getting over
MN' s biggest weakness is its strength PJ fleck we don't know if he will try to rebuild the whole team or coach them to their potential
QB is an unknown but it was last year too. Leidner sucked so any improvement will be welcomed there are a couple sot razor thin in depth. OL and DB and of course qb but QB is a total unknown so it is what it is
if things fall into place they could win 8-9 games but if not then 4-6 games
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WR and CB? Long term? Sure. This year? At least half the conference for both.
agreed. I think the young guys take their lumps this year. Going forward though, they could be extremely dynamic with lots of depth.
WR corps is just astounding to me thanks to that 2017 class. Eddie McDoom, Dylan Crawford (6'1+), DPJ (6'2+), Tarik Black (6'3+), Nico Collins (6'4+), and Oliver Martin (6'0+). Holy moly that's some raw talent. And size. The little guy in that group is McDoom and he's 5'11, 180. And all of them can run- McDoom, Crawford, and DPJ can fly. 2018 and 2019 this WR corps will be something to see. This year they'll take their lumps as they develop.
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Half of the Big Ten’s 14 teams, including Nebraska and Iowa, have already lost a starter for the season to a major knee injury.
Here’s a list of those who are sidelined, in chronological order of when injured:
» Brandon Snyder, Iowa, free safety: The senior led the Hawkeyes last year in forced fumbles (three), tied for the team lead in interceptions (three) and was third in tackles (85). Snyder was injured in spring practice.
» John Reid, cornerback, Penn State: The junior started three games as a true freshman and 14 as a sophomore while earning honorable mention All-Big Ten. Last year, he led the Nittany Lions in pass breakups and was third in the Big Ten in punt return average at 7.5 yards. Reid was injured in spring practice.
» Solomon Vault, receiver/returner, Northwestern: The senior has four career kickoff returns for touchdowns and was third in the Big Ten last season at 24.3 yards, including a 95-yarder against Michigan State. He was third-team All-Big Ten as a returner for the second straight season. Vault underwent surgery in late May to repair cumulative knee damage.
» Chris Jones, cornerback, Nebraska: The senior played some as a true freshman and evolved through his career into the Huskers’ top cover corner and strong pro prospect. Last season, he earned honorable mention All-Big Ten while intercepting three passes, including returning one for a touchdown against Indiana. Jones was injured in July in summer conditioning.
(The Huskers also lost true freshman wide receiver Jaevon McQuitty to a torn ACL in fall camp. Though he wasn’t expected to start, McQuitty was in the mix for playing time.)
» Tyreek Maddox-Williams, linebacker, Rutgers: The sophomore started six games as a true freshman and was picked on ESPN.com’s Big Ten all-freshman team, finishing with 47 tackles and a blocked punt. Maddox-Williams was injured in fall camp.
» Jack Cichy, linebacker, Wisconsin: The fifth-year senior was a candidate for Big Ten defensive player of the year and a preseason All-American. Last year, despite playing half the season because of a chest injury, Cichy earned honorable mention All-Big Ten with 60 tackles. He was injured in fall camp.
» Jake Hansen, linebacker, Illinois: The sophomore played in all 12 games as a freshman and started one. He emerged in spring practice and the fall as an impact player. Hansen was injured in fall camp.
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Inexperience in the secondary and WR is their two clear areas to watch. Tons of big recruits but not much game production in a couple of the spots, besides Ward and Webb on corner and Safety.
Big holes to fill with the departure of Hooker/Lattimore/Conley.You've mentioned Webb & Ward(4.3 guy).Off the top of my head there's Arnette/Sheffield/Fuller and Fr Okudah & Wade to fill out.I could be missing some one.Last year i felt the DL was a year away & the LB's will again be stout.This year the OSU may have the best line in CFB.With Booker/Baker and Worley backing them up this should give the DB's time to learn on the fly
Not sure why KJ Hill was moved to H back.He seemed to me the most consistent hands on the roster.Wide outs collectively need to step up their game.
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Big holes to fill with the departure of Hooker/Lattimore/Conley.You've mentioned Webb & Ward(4.3 guy).Off the top of my head there's Arnette/Sheffield/Fuller and Fr Okudah & Wade to fill out.I could be missing some one.Last year i felt the DL was a year away & the LB's will again be stout.This year the OSU may have the best line in CFB.With Booker/Baker and Worley backing them up this should give the DB's time to learn on the fly
Not sure why KJ Hill was moved to H back.He seemed to me the most consistent hands on the roster.Wide outs collectively need to step up their game.
KJ Hill will not be at H.....that will be mostly Paris Cambell, Demario McCall and Eric Glover Willliams, 3 dudes that should be starting on someone's team in the big ten.
The WRs as a group will look a lot better if the timing is not disrupted by poor pass blocking and by more creative play calling. Separation was only an issue on obvious pass plays or vanilla play calls, generally speaking.
The big " IF" on the o- line is Isiah Prince at RT. A HIGHLY physical and talented recruit who excels at run blocking but who sort of lost his confidence in technique and started bending at the hips last year. Once a guy starts defaulting to that its curtains. Teams started game planning around it very effectively and it actually started to work against OSU in both run and pass game late in the year. They say that has been completely fixed so we will See, because as you say, that and another year of experience for the freshmen Jordan and this could be a monster offensive line.
Barrett, when allowed to throw in rhythm, can actually be incredibly accurate...it is when it breaks down that it gets inconsistent.
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KJ Hill will not be at H.....that will be mostly Paris Cambell, Demario McCall and Eric Glover Willliams, 3 dudes that should be starting on someone's team in the big ten.
The WRs as a group will look a lot better if the timing is not disrupted by poor pass blocking and by more creative play calling. Separation was only an issue on obvious pass plays or vanilla play calls, generally speaking.
Hope you are right a few weeks back on Buckeye Boards the talk was KJ to H-Back.Campbell's dripping with talent but doesn't always hang on to well thrown balls.Hope he remedied that
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Curious as to how they rotate guy. McCall always seemed like a big hitter and I wonder if his move to H-back is to get him on the field the most. Otherwise why not keep him at running back with Weber nursing injury? Also sounds like Austin Mack is starting, which is mildly surprising.
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I was surprised also,appears he's having a good fall camp.Bummed that Burrow broke his right hand would've like to see him get more snaps.McCall(Run DMC) is on the light side for every down type back
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Curious as to how they rotate guy. McCall always seemed like a big hitter and I wonder if his move to H-back is to get him on the field the most. Otherwise why not keep him at running back with Weber nursing injury? Also sounds like Austin Mack is starting, which is mildly surprising.
I think that's the idea, plus he can do both, plus....they are quietly really pumped about this kid jk Dobbins that backs up Weber.
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For Michigan, Their most experienced returning wide receiver caught less than 200 yards. They do have a lot of recruiting stars, but I think the consensus is right. Michigan's receivers may be good someday, but perhaps not this year.
As for quoting the heights of receivers, Rutgers has 8 wide receivers taller than 6'0. Penn State has 9. I'm not sure that's a good indicator of talent. Heck, I'm not even sure recruiting stars are a good indicator of talent. However, given that Michigan has recruited 9 wide receivers over the last 2 years, I do believe they will find some quality young players.
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"For Michigan, Their most experienced returning wide receiver caught less than 200 yards. They do have a lot of recruiting stars, but I think the consensus is right. Michigan's receivers may be good someday, but perhaps not this year."
Perhaps. Quite excited and happy that the Michigan youngsters get to experience a white out in Beaver Stadium playing the reigning Big Ten champ....and team so loaded with talent.
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The quote thing isn't working...but:
Penn State has talent on offense. I am really worried about their defense. They have an excellent secondary, but the rest of the defense is suspect. Not like down-7-linebackers bad, but not great, either.
Michigan won't need great wide receivers to beat Penn State. Just a good offensive line.
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Iowa's secondary is better, even without the starting cornerback, than expected.
Iowa's QB can pass well, but his overall performance was a weakness.
The receivers seemed to be in better position than they have been in past years.
As for Big Beef Tacosupreme's issues with Penn State -- I didn't see any weaknesses today.