CFB51 College Football Fan Community
The Power Five => Big Ten => Topic started by: medinabuckeye1 on December 05, 2022, 10:51:16 AM
-
Here is the 247 2022 CFB Talent Composite (https://247sports.com/Season/2022-Football/CollegeTeamTalentComposite/). Basically this is a list of the most talented teams in CFB this year based on the last few years' recruiting rankings. I am comparing here to the current CFP Rankings and for unranked teams to their records:
- Bama, #5
- Georgia, #1
- Ohio State, #4
- aTm, 5-7/2-6
- Clemson, #7
- Texas, #20
- Oregon, #15
- LSU, #17
- Oklahoma, 6-6/3-6 (to be fair they are in an unplanned coaching transition)
- Notre Dame, #21 (also in an unplanned coaching transition)
- USC, #10
- Miami, 5-7/3-5
- Michigan, #2
- Florida, 6-6/3-5
- Penn State, #11
- UNC, 9-4/6-2 (did make their CG)
- Florida State, #13
- Auburn, 5-7/2-6
- Tennessee, #6
- Washington, #12
- USCe, #19
- Ole Miss, 8-4/4-4
- Stanford, 3-9/1-8
- Nebraska, 4-8/3-6
- Arkansas, 6-6/3-5
So the top-25 from the talent composite makes up 15 of the CFP top-25. The ten missing from the talent top-25 in the CFP top-25 are:
- #3 TCU is #32
- #8 Utah is #33
- #9 KSU is #70
- #14 OrSU is #54
- #18 UCLA is #27
- #22 MissSt is #29
- #23 NCST is #37
- #24 Troy is #98
- #25 UTSA is #78
Yes, there are a few teams that over-perform. The most striking example is TCU which is #32 in talent and has a Playoff berth.
Also, there are a few teams that under-perform. The most glaring example is aTm which has playoff caliber talent and is sub .500.
Some people might question Bama because they are #1 in talent and missed the CFP but I think that is silly because it isn't like they suck, they are the first team out.
CCG's:
ACC:
Clemson was the #1 and UNC was the #3 most talented team in the ACC. Clemson beat UNC in the CG.
B12:
TCU was the #3 and KSU was the #9 most talented team in the B12. KSU beat TCU in the CG. I'll also point out that #1 Texas has underachieved for well over a decade and #2 Oklahoma was in coaching transition this year.
B1G:
Michigan was the #2 and Purdue was the #12 most talented team in the B1G. Michigan beat Purdue in the CG. Purdue is the real outlier here as they were only #6 even in the B1G-W so kudos to them.
P12:
USC was the #2 and Utah was the #6 most talented team in the P12. Utah beat USC in the CG. USC got there outright, Utah won a three way-tie with #1 Oregon and #3 Washington.
SEC:
UGA was the #2 and LSU was the #4 most talented team in the SEC. UGA beat LSU in the CG. Interestingly, UGA was the most talented team in their division but LSU was only third in theirs behind #1 Bama and #3 aTm.
-
jmo, but the record/ranking, or whatever measurement you want to use also needs to be an over time measurement like the rankings.
for any spot year, you're going to have some pretty wild anomalies. whether due to injuries, transfers, bad coaching, bad luck, or just a plain old down year, or the reciprocal of any/all those.
i could be wrong, but i'd wager a small amount that over time, most would slot in somewhere near their recruiting rank. be curious to see it anyway, but i ain't got time to run the numbers.
-
And at times, schedule can be your friend (or enemy). But there is a clear correlation here.
-
#9 KSU is #70
bang for your buck here
do these numbers reflect transfers such as Adrian Martinez and Cade Warner from Nebraska to the Little Apple?
-
oh it definitely matters. JJ was a massive upgrade over Cade....JJ was a 5*. Donovan Edwards is the best player on their offense all due respect to Courm. DE was a 5*. True frosh CB Will Johnson made two huge INTs vs Purdue in the B1G CCG that helped swing the game and let Michigan pull away. Will was a 5*. True frosh TE Colston Loveland who made couple huge plays back to back weeks was a high 4* and is the highest rated TE recruit on the team.
'Crootin' definitely matters.
-
I see that 6 of the top 10 "most talented" rank well outside the top 10 for on-field results.
That tells me something else matters...
-
I see that 6 of the top 10 "most talented" rank well outside the top 10 for on-field results.
That tells me something else matters...
yup. coaching and development will always be paramount. but you need the 5*'s and 4*'s sprinkled in their as well to be reaaaaallly good.
-
coaching and developing 4's and 5's REALLY helps
-
I see that 6 of the top 10 "most talented" rank well outside the top 10 for on-field results.
That tells me something else matters...
Yes there are obviously other things that matter but I wouldn't say that six rank "well outside" the top-10. Oregon (#15), LSU (#17), your Longhorns (#20), and Notre Dame (#21) aren't THAT far off and:
- One of Oregon's losses was to #2 in talent UGA and another was to #20 Washington.
- LSU's losses were to teams ranked #2, #4, #17, and #19 in talent
- One of Texas' losses was to #1 in talent Bama
- One of Notre Dame's losses was to #3 in talent tOSU.
-
- One of Texas' losses was to #1 in talent Bama
- One of Notre Dame's losses was to #3 in talent tOSU.
explain the other losses
-
explain the other losses
Eh, $h!t happens. We all know the best team doesn't always win. In the B1G-W Purdue beat Illinois who beat both Iowa and Wisconsin and yet the Hawkeyes and Badgers both beat Purdue.
-
Yes there are obviously other things that matter but I wouldn't say that six rank "well outside" the top-10. Oregon (#15), LSU (#17), your Longhorns (#20), and Notre Dame (#21) aren't THAT far off and:
- One of Oregon's losses was to #2 in talent UGA and another was to #20 Washington.
- LSU's losses were to teams ranked #2, #4, #17, and #19 in talent
- One of Texas' losses was to #1 in talent Bama
- One of Notre Dame's losses was to #3 in talent tOSU.
Oregon's 8 spots below their "talent." LSU is 7 spots below. Texas is 14 spots below. Those are significant. Over half the top 10 in "talent" is achieving on-field results that are at least 7 spots below their "talent level."
Over half the top 10.
Like I said, these stats are proof to me, that something else matters, more than talent.
Are you going to get elite results without elite talent? It's highly doubtful.
But given similar levels of elite talent, there's another factor that comes in as being much more important. Seeing as my school is one of the perennial under-achievers, I know first-hand, and I don't have to guess what that other factor is.
-
explain the other losses
explain all of A&M's losses too lol
-
explain all of A&M's losses too lol
when this passes as "tradition", well...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qxpV3PFRuHQ
-
Necessary but not sufficient.
-
when this passes as "tradition", well...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qxpV3PFRuHQ
No offense to our good friend Gigem, but I find it amusing that the rest of the world is just now finding out how weird and cult-like the ags are. For decades, outsiders always told me "you just say that because they're a rival."
But the reality is:
(https://i.imgur.com/agTjzLK.png)
-
No offense to our good friend Gigem, but I find it amusing that the rest of the world is just now finding out how weird and cult-like the ags are. For decades, outsiders always told me "you just say that because they're a rival."
But the reality is:
(https://i.imgur.com/agTjzLK.png)
they really are a strange bunch
-
utee would know better than most
-
Oregon's 8 spots below their "talent." LSU is 7 spots below. Texas is 14 spots below. Those are significant. Over half the top 10 in "talent" is achieving on-field results that are at least 7 spots below their "talent level."
Over half the top 10.
Like I said, these stats are proof to me, that something else matters, more than talent.
Are you going to get elite results without elite talent? It's highly doubtful.
But given similar levels of elite talent, there's another factor that comes in as being much more important. Seeing as my school is one of the perennial under-achievers, I know first-hand, and I don't have to guess what that other factor is.
For Oregon, LSU, Texas, and Notre Dame you are talking about a difference of one or two games.
I'm not disagreeing with you to the extent that development and coaching matter but underestimate talent at your own peril. Oklahoma (unplanned coaching change) and aTm were the only top-10 talent teams who ended up more than a couple games below where talent would suggest.
-
Necessary but not sufficient.
Exactly.
Years ago I used to race sailboats. Some people got overly obsessed with the latest and greatest (and most expensive) gear. A wise old guy said that you didn't need the fastest boat on the Lake to win but you weren't going to win with the slowest.
Same applies here. You don't need Alabama's #1 talent to win the NC but it is HIGHLY unlikely that TCU's talent will be enough. Georgia is the most talented team standing and they have the best chance to win but Ohio State and Michigan have enough talent to win.
-
Years ago I used to race sailboats. Some people got overly obsessed with the latest and greatest (and most expensive) gear. A wise old guy said that you didn't need the fastest boat on the Lake to win...
So, coaching matters a lot. Got it. :)
-
So, coaching matters a lot. Got it. :)
Nobody said it didn't but talent is:
Necessary but not sufficient.
-
utee would know better than most
Man, y'all don't know the half of it. Those goofy stand-up routines they do at their yell practices are the most normal of any of their rituals... err, I mean, traditions.
-
Man, y'all don't know the half of it. Those goofy stand-up routines they do at their yell practices are the most normal of any of their rituals... err, I mean, traditions.
One tradition the aggies have is kissing your date every time they score
I always liked that one
-
One tradition the aggies have is kissing your date every time they score
I always liked that one
Agree 100%. Tthat's a good one that I insist on honoring, with my i s c & a aggie wife.
-
I've had my fair share of experiencing Aggieland traditions, three visits to Kyle and a variety of other exposure via wedding, friends and colleagues and even road game Yell Practices. They have no peer. I say that all while saying Kyle Field is the best stadium in college football.
-
There's always that one coach that winds up with all the five star busts. It used to be Brady Hoke, and it appears to be Jimbo Fisher now.
-
Is he getting trolled by 24/7,Rivals,Scout,Max Preps?
-
The only people who don't think 5* players are important don't have any.
-
The only people who don't think 5* players aren't important don't have any.
A triple negative? Wow! Impressive.
Impressively stupid, but impressive nonetheless.
-
Man, y'all don't know the half of it. Those goofy stand-up routines they do at their yell practices are the most normal of any of their rituals... err, I mean, traditions.
i, for one, am mostly blaming you and other longhorns. you were supposed to keep them in their little corner. instead, you let them out into the sec and the rest of the world. it's your fault.
-
Yes,yes it is
-
No offense to our good friend Gigem, but I find it amusing that the rest of the world is just now finding out how weird and cult-like the ags are. For decades, outsiders always told me "you just say that because they're a rival."
Oh no, I saw it right away at my first game there. 2004, A&M vs. OU, a freshman Adrian Peterson was running buck-wild on them, and they're all busy sawing the horns off.
I looked at one guy near me flashing the horns-down and I thought to myself "If the team is anything like the fans, they might find more success if they'd focus less on UT and more on the team currently whipping that ass on the field right now."
They've horns-downed us every time we've played since joining the conference. I bet they did it in the old ooc-rivalry days too and I just didn't know it.
I'm like "How the hell do you saw the horns off a tiger?" I either suck at tigrine anatomy or aggies are just dumb.
-
I've had my fair share of experiencing Aggieland traditions, three visits to Kyle and a variety of other exposure via wedding, friends and colleagues and even road game Yell Practices. They have no peer. I say that all while saying Kyle Field is the best stadium in college football.
Pffft.
-
I either suck at tigrine anatomy or aggies are just dumb.
Well one married utee so watch it buster, I guess there are exceptions
-
One tradition the aggies have is kissing your date every time they score
I always liked that one
Cults do have their uses.
I worked in College Station for just over a year and came to believe that the men must've been moxie-deficient because every time I paid a little attention to a cute girl they acted starved for actual testosterone. Like, I'm talking about girls who were generally way out of my league.
25 4 Heisman once said he used to participate in some kind of soccer league or something that traveled to College Station for games and had basically the same experience.
If the cult neuters its men and makes its girls desperate and dumb, well....it wasn't always a bad thing.
-
Well one married utee so watch it buster, I guess there are exceptions
I've met her.
See the other post.
She's out of his league too.
Like I said, cults have their bright spots.
-
MDT, you wife LOOKS out of your league, just sayin' ...
-
The only people who don't think 5* players aren't important don't have any.
I'm sure TCU and K0state wish they had a few
-
MDT, you wife LOOKS out of your league, just sayin' ...
Definitely.
Texas girls always let me punch above my weight class, and she is a Texas girl. One of those mysteries of life. Louisiana girls were not very enamored with me, neither were the Georgia girls when I lived in Macon a couple of years as a teenager. I assume it's the same for all 49 states NOT named Texas.
-
I'm sure TCU and K0state wish they had a few
Considering who they're about to play, I agree.
-
Definitely.
Texas girls always let me punch above my weight class, and she is a Texas girl. One of those mysteries of life. Louisiana girls were not very enamored with me, neither were the Georgia girls when I lived in Macon a couple of years as a teenager. I assume it's the same for all 49 states NOT named Texas.
We got so many good lookin' girls in this state, there's plenty to go around.
But don't move here.
Thank You For Your Support
-
Yeah, I won’t argue that I abhor the whole horns down when we’re not playing UT. I was hoping that with the separation that it would wane some. I am always about being Pro-A&M, and not anti-UT. I think a lot of them do it for the camera, like they’re just trying to be over the top. Can’t say that I have paid that much attention when I’m at games, but I don’t really recall people just giving a horns down all the time. I’ve seen other teams do it, like OU, when they’re not playing UT.
-
Vandy fans do it a lot...
-
The hullabaloo about trash talking at a yell practice is really puzzling to me. Every yell practice Ive ever been too is the same sophomoric jokes about the other school. I didn’t fully watch this video but I think they said that App state is a bunch of hillbillies and rednecks and such. I’m sure there was a reference about Rock the Good Ag. It’s the same old recycled crap, mostly harmless.
If you really want to dig up trash talking I’m pretty sure Dan Campbell, current Lions HC, said a bunch of homophobic crap about UT at Bonfire in 1998. Very non-PC, even in the day.
There have been a lot of traditions that have come out of A&M over the years, so I take the good with the not so good. It’s disputed, but legend has it the name Bevo was born from A&M branding the steer with the score 13-0.
13-0 got rebranded to BEVO. Or it was a beer in Austin. Take your pic.
We saw off the horns, because it’s in the fight song. Yes, it’s over the top, but it’s been that way a long time. UT, coincidentally, mentions A&M in their fight song.
We invented the hand signals that were popularized in the SWC. Gig em was intended for TCU horned frogs, as is the thumbs up. Horns up etc were popularized along with the rest later. Bonfire was pretty awesome, until it wasn’t. That one still stings.
-
Yeah, I won’t argue that I abhor the whole horns down when we’re not playing UT. I was hoping that with the separation that it would wane some. I am always about being Pro-A&M, and not anti-UT. I think a lot of them do it for the camera, like they’re just trying to be over the top. Can’t say that I have paid that much attention when I’m at games, but I don’t really recall people just giving a horns down all the time. I’ve seen other teams do it, like OU, when they’re not playing UT.
WVU fans do it a little bit now. When we played them in 2018 David Sills scored a TD and threw a horns down sign at the crowd and got an unsportsmanlike. It wasn’t some overt display either. Just something he did for a second and boom, flag. Then later in the game Grier scored the GW 2 point conversion, went through the corner of the end zone, and gave em the horns down out of bounds. Another flag. That one could have been big because there were still 16 seconds left and it was enforced on the KO.
Ever since then it isn’t unusual to see WVU fans give a horns down on camera even we aren’t playing Texas.
-
It's a complement to a program if every fan base tries to dis it with some symbol.
I've seen some Dawg fans and players do the Gator thing when the Dawgs score, but only in a game against UF.
-
Yeah, such a compliment that they went crying to the Big 12 in order to get a special rule just for them.
-
I think everyone here basically agrees with the importance of recruiting, and that some exceptions exist, and that coaching is also critical. A team is not likely to win an NC without elite recruiting/players, and at least competent coaching.
I admire the coaches who seem able to do a lot with not much, Wisconsin comes to mind usually, TCU this year, Cincinnati of late, and find the reverse of this also happens.
-
I think everyone here basically agrees with the importance of recruiting, and that some exceptions exist, and that coaching is also critical. A team is not likely to win an NC without elite recruiting/players, and at least competent coaching.
I admire the coaches who seem able to do a lot with not much, Wisconsin comes to mind usually, TCU this year, Cincinnati of late, and find the reverse of this also happens.
yup. 'crootin' matters. the REAL difference in 'crootin where it matters isn't even the skill talent imo- it's the lines of scrimmage. Bama used to have to freaks on the DL and OL every season without fail. They just are not the same up front anymore on either side of the ball. Ohio State was beating Michigan's ass in under Meyer when they had ALIENS on the DL like Chase Young, Nick Bosa, and Joey Bosa. OSU doesn't have dudes like that anymore. UGA has become like the new Bama with the monsters they have been pumping out on OL/DL last few years. Jalen Carter is a freak show. No team in this playoff have a guy like him inside. Mazi Smith for Michigan is really damn good- but Carter is like Mazi Smith on 'roids- he's just a notch above- got another gear Mazi ain't got. Kind of like last year when no one in the playoff could deal with Jordan Davis. Saw him first hand just destroy Michigan's interior OL over and over again. They looked like high schoolers playing against him.
-
We got so many good lookin' girls in this state, there's plenty to go around.
But don't move here.
Thank You For Your Support
We already live in Texas, doofus.
-
We already live in Texas, doofus.
That was for everyone else. You married into the state so you're allowed.
-
Did I ever mention what I'd do if I owned Hell and Texas?
-
Did I ever mention what I'd do if I owned Hell and Texas?
Yup. You'd eat cinnamon flavored spaghetti sauce with beans and chopped onions on top.
-
Does Michael Dell know you're on line
-
Probably. He knows everything.
-
That was for everyone else. You married into the state so you're allowed.
Lolz, I never gave up my TX driver's license in the first place.
True story.
Also, when I left Austin I printed the message from the old board where you said I could stay, then I made up a title for you under your name and stamped it with something official-looking, so I'm pretty sure it counts as legally binding if I ever decide to move back there.
Which.....Mrs. DeTiger may be pushing for, shortly. *le sigh*
-
relates to 'crootin... this is why Bama is no longer...BAMA
https://twitter.com/SportSourceA/status/1600356032999436288?s=20&t=Nu_gAaqF6WTZ9ogdWfh-gA
-
relates to 'crootin... this is why Bama is no longer...BAMA
https://twitter.com/SportSourceA/status/1600356032999436288?s=20&t=Nu_gAaqF6WTZ9ogdWfh-gA
So who wants their kids who are transferring out for PT?