CFB51 College Football Fan Community
The Power Five => Big Ten => Topic started by: LittlePig on November 27, 2022, 04:36:42 AM
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This is based on these assumptions.
CFP rankings - 1.Ga, 2.Mich, 3.TCU, 4.USC, 5.OSU, 6.Bama, 7.Tenn, 8.PSU
Big Ten picking order by school - 1.Mich, 2.OSU, 3.PSU, 4.Purdue, 5.ILL, 6.Iowa, 7.Minn, 8.MD, 9.Wisc
Michigan - CFP- Fiesta Bowl vs TCU
Alternative scenarios- CFP Peach Bowl or NY6 Orange Bowl
OSU - Rose Bowl vs PAC
Alternative Scenerios - CFP Peach vs Georgia
PSU - NY6 Cotton Bowl vs Tulane, Alternative- Rose, Orange or Citrus
Purdue - Citrus Bowl vs SEC, Alternative - Rose or Reliaquest
Illinois - Reliaquest Bowl vs SEC, Alternative - Citrus or Duke's Mayo
Iowa - Duke's Mayo vs. ACC, Alternative - Reliaquest or Music
Minn - Pinstripe vs. ACC, Alternative - Music or Duke's Mayo
MD - Music City Bowl vs SEC, Alternative - Guaranteed Rate or Duke's Mayo
Wisc - Guarunteed Rate vs Big 12, Alternative - Quick Lane or Music
No Big Ten School - Quick Lane vs MAC
MSU, Rut, ind, Neb, NW - No Bowl
Unfortunately Minn gets bumped down to the Pinstripe because it's never been there and MD went in 2021, Wisc in 2018, Iowa in 2017. That means MD gets bumped up to the Music City Bowl or maybe the Duke's Mayo Bowl
There are still a couple of crazy scenerois that could play out like Purdue beating Mich or LSU beating Georgia. Mich and Ga would still most likely make the playoffs but this means giving the Rose to Purdue or the Sugar to LSU whereas if Purdue or LSU lose, they are not getting a NY6 bowl. There is also a slight chance Mich could get bumped to the Orange if it loses. And it's still not clear who would jump into the CFP #4 spot if USC or TCU lose. Would it be OSU or Bama jumping into the playoffs?
One thing is certain. Michigan is not going to the Rose Bowl. If Mich beats Purdue, they will be at least #2 in the playoffs. If Mich loses to Purdue, then Purdue goes to the Rose Bowl.
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Minnesota has the same Big Ten record as Iowa, but is 8-4 overall compared to 7-5. I'd be shocked if Minnesota wasn't above them in the bowl pecking order. Especially since last year with an 8-4 (6-3) record, the Gophers were sent to the Guaranteed Rate Bowl which is at the bottom in favor of a 7-5 PSU team and two teams (Wisconsin and Purdue) with the exact same records both in total and in conference that the Gophers beat head to head.
Anything less than the Mayo or Music City Bowl would be a shafting, imo.
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maybe those guys don't like PJ?
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Minnesota has the same Big Ten record as Iowa, but is 8-4 overall compared to 7-5. I'd be shocked if Minnesota wasn't above them in the bowl pecking order. Especially since last year with an 8-4 (6-3) record, the Gophers were sent to the Guaranteed Rate Bowl which is at the bottom in favor of a 7-5 PSU team and two teams (Wisconsin and Purdue) with the exact same records both in total and in conference that the Gophers beat head to head.
Anything less than the Mayo or Music City Bowl would be a shafting, imo.
I don't have a good answer for what happened last year but this year Minn finished in a 3-way tie with ILL and Iowa at 5-4 and Minn lost to both of them. So when picking the Big Ten's sacrificial lamb to go to the Pinstripe, who do you send? Everybody west of the Appalachians hates the Pinstripe Bowl with a passion. MD went last year.
One thing I am not clear on is what is the rule for the Pinstripe for repeat teams. I know the original contract from 2014-2021 was an 8-year contract that said that the Big Ten had to pick 8 different teams in 8 years. When that original contract was extended to 2025, did that imply the Big Ten was supposed to take 12 different teams in 12 years? If not, then Wisc might be a candidate for the Pinstripe. Send Minn to the Music or Duke's Mayo and MD to the guarunteed Rate Bowl instead. Not sure how Wisc would feel about that, but Wisc is definitely at the bottom of the pecking order this year with a 4-5 conference record and 6-6 overall record.
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I don't have a good answer for what happened last year but this year Minn finished in a 3-way tie with ILL and Iowa at 5-4 and Minn lost to both of them. So when picking the Big Ten's sacrificial lamb to go to the Pinstripe, who do you send? Everybody west of the Appalachians hates the Pinstripe Bowl with a passion. MD went last year.
One thing I am not clear on is what is the rule for the Pinstripe for repeat teams. I know the original contract from 2014-2021 was an 8-year contract that said that the Big Ten had to pick 8 different teams in 8 years. When that original contract was extended to 2025, did that imply the Big Ten was supposed to take 12 different teams in 12 years? If not, then Wisc might be a candidate for the Pinstripe. Send Minn to the Music or Duke's Mayo and MD to the guarunteed Rate Bowl instead. Not sure how Wisc would feel about that, but Wisc is definitely at the bottom of the pecking order this year with a 4-5 conference record and 6-6 overall record.
My point is that head to head didn't matter one lick last year. Not only that, but they boosted a PSU team ahead of all three with a worse record. Minnesota was the "sacrificial lamb" last year. Fleck played it cool and exuded graciousness for the opportunity to play in the Guaranteed Rate Bowl as an 8-4 (6-3) team. But I have little doubt that there was consternation behind closed doors....and with the selection process.
I just cannot imagine the Big Ten giving the Gophers the short stick for a second year in a row. Iowa has a 7-5 overall record, so I think they'd be the obvious choice to go to the Pinstripe.
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if they gave the Gophers the short stick last year, why do you think they wouldn't do it again?
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My point is that head to head didn't matter one lick last year. Not only that, but they boosted a PSU team ahead of all three with a worse record. Minnesota was the "sacrificial lamb" last year. Fleck played it cool and exuded graciousness for the opportunity to play in the Guaranteed Rate Bowl as an 8-4 (6-3) team. But I have little doubt that there was consternation behind closed doors....and with the selection process.
I just cannot imagine the Big Ten giving the Gophers the short stick for a second year in a row. Iowa has a 7-5 overall record, so I think they'd be the obvious choice to go to the Pinstripe.
Fair enough. I did not know this had upset Minnesota fans so much. I guess I have a different definition of the short stick after you get past the Reliaquest in the bowl picking order. After that it is more about location than anything. I consider New York and Detroit awful locations for a winter bowl game but Arizona, Nashville and Charlotte are good locations. So it's not that big a deal if you get sent to Arizona or Nashvillle or Charlotte as long as you did not go to the same one recently.
But you are right. PSU should have got a much worse bowl last year and Minn deserved better So there is a history of schools getting screwed in the bowl pecking order that's hard to predict.
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if they gave the Gophers the short stick last year, why do you think they wouldn't do it again?
The Big Ten never gives an explanation for their selection process. Especially since the bowls themselves have a big say....and with multiple teams finishing with similar records....there's always going to be some splitting of hairs. So we don't exactly know what all played into PSU getting the Outback (now Reliaquest) Bowl last year. Or why Purdue and Wisconsin, despite the same record, got better destinations/games than the Gophers who beat both head to head. Sometimes a team is going to get the short stick. It happens.
But I truly have to believe the people making the selections have to have some semblance of equity. At 8-4, the Gophers got a 6-6 West Virginia team last year in their bowl. Sending them to the Pinstripe, would give them another matchup against a team with a worse record, in a bowl that is a tier below what the other BT teams with similar records get. I'd be very surprised if that didn't factor into the decision this year. And as I said....same Big Ten record....but Iowa had a worse overall record....so I'm not even sure why they'd be higher in the pecking order to begin.
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Fair enough. I did not know this had upset Minnesota fans so much. I guess I have a different definition of the short stick after you get past the Reliaquest in the bowl picking order. After that it is more about location than anything. I consider New York and Detroit awful locations for a winter bowl game but Arizona, Nashville and Charlotte are good locations. So it's not that big a deal if you get sent to Arizona or Nashvillle or Charlotte as long as you did not go to the same one recently.
But you are right. PSU should have got a much worse bowl last year and Minn deserved better So there is a history of schools getting screwed in the bowl pecking order that's hard to predict.
I think it's less about location....and more about game/matchup. But I'm sure that plays a factor too seeing as how....while never verified....it sounds like the Gophers....when it was determined that they weren't getting the Music City or LV Bowls....opted for Arizona rather than NYC because of weather/fan base in the area.
But bowl games are a good chance to showoff the team to potential recruits. The Guaranteed Rate Bowl against a 6-6 West Virginia team is a giant who gives a rats ass. Playing a 7-5, 8-4, or even 9-3 team from the SEC or ACC is a much more exciting matchup and viewership numbers of the games back that up. From a fan standpoint....I'd like to see a game against the best possible opponent.
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The Big Ten never gives an explanation for their selection process. Especially since the bowls themselves have a big say....
I think it's MUCH more about this.....
the bowls are trying to turn a profit or not lose too much money
they like teams that travel well and spend money in the city
hell, we all know it's ALL about the $$$
Iowa fans are known for traveling well and drinking all the Busch lite
Huskers haven't been to a bowl in a long time and have a history of traveling. When they get to a bowl, they will get picked above others more deserving.
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I think it's less about location....and more about game/matchup.
Unfortunately, it's more about butts in seats / eyeballs on TV.
Penn state had no business jumping Purdue, Wisconsin, and Minnesota, but they bring the viewership more than those three schools. At the end of the day, the bowls care about money more than anything.
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I think it's MUCH more about this.....
the bowls are trying to turn a profit or not lose too much money
they like teams that travel well and spend money in the city
hell, we all know it's ALL about the $$$
Iowa fans are known for traveling well and drinking all the Busch lite
Huskers haven't been to a bowl in a long time and have a history of traveling. When they get to a bowl, they will get picked above others more deserving.
I get that. But the last decent bowl game that the Gophers were invited to was the Outback Bowl in 2019. They sold out their ticket allotment....and attendance when compared with the Arkansas/PSU game last year was less than 1k difference (45k vs 46k). So I get that bowls may prefer a helmet school when choosing....but the conference brass gets input too. And I'd like to think that they'd try to balance these things out as much as possible.
Some advantages in college football are inherent. The conference should be advocating for all their teams equally. Not exacerbating those advantages by adding on.
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attendance is really important cause the bowl officials are usually working with locals that want the hotels and bars and restaurants full
but, the TV network honks also have a voice and try to get the matchups that give the best TV ratings
PSU might do better in that area
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There are still a couple of crazy scenerois that could play out like Purdue beating Mich or LSU beating Georgia. Mich and Ga would still most likely make the playoffs but this means giving the Rose to Purdue or the Sugar to LSU whereas if Purdue or LSU lose, they are not getting a NY6 bowl. There is also a slight chance Mich could get bumped to the Orange if it loses. And it's still not clear who would jump into the CFP #4 spot if USC or TCU lose. Would it be OSU or Bama jumping into the playoffs?
One thing is certain. Michigan is not going to the Rose Bowl. If Mich beats Purdue, they will be at least #2 in the playoffs. If Mich loses to Purdue, then Purdue goes to the Rose Bowl.
I am not sure Purdue goes to Rose Bowl if it defeats Michigan. The Rose Bowl gets to select its replacement Big Ten team if a Big Ten team goes to the CFP, so the Rose Bowl could select Ohio State, or Penn State.
The following is from the Rose Bowl site 109th Rose Bowl Game Selection Procedures - Tournament of Roses - Rose Bowl Game (https://rosebowlgame.com/news/2022/11/3/general-109th-rose-bowl-game-selection-procedures.aspx):
Should a team from the Big Ten or Pac-12 be selected to go to the College Football Playoff, the Tournament of Roses will traditionally select the next-highest CFP-ranked team from that conference. There is, however, a caveat to that clause in the contract.
If the next-highest ranked team is in a 'cluster' of teams, meaning there is another team or teams from the same conference ranked within several spots of each other, the Tournament of Roses will select the team from that cluster that will result in the best possible matchup for the Rose Bowl Game.
In a cluster situation, the Tournament of Roses will take into account factors, in no particular order, such as: the last time a team played in the Rose Bowl Game, head-to-head results, regular season schedule, overall record, opponents played, past playoff or bowl appearances and performance, and historical matchups.
It should be noted that it is the strong preference of the Tournament of Roses, Pac-12 and Big Ten Conferences, that the highest-ranked available team in each conference be selected as the replacement team.
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I am not sure Purdue goes to Rose Bowl if it defeats Michigan. The Rose Bowl gets to select its replacement Big Ten team if a Big Ten team goes to the CFP, so the Rose Bowl could select Ohio State, or Penn State.
The following is from the Rose Bowl site 109th Rose Bowl Game Selection Procedures - Tournament of Roses - Rose Bowl Game (https://rosebowlgame.com/news/2022/11/3/general-109th-rose-bowl-game-selection-procedures.aspx):
Should a team from the Big Ten or Pac-12 be selected to go to the College Football Playoff, the Tournament of Roses will traditionally select the next-highest CFP-ranked team from that conference. There is, however, a caveat to that clause in the contract.
If the next-highest ranked team is in a 'cluster' of teams, meaning there is another team or teams from the same conference ranked within several spots of each other, the Tournament of Roses will select the team from that cluster that will result in the best possible matchup for the Rose Bowl Game.
In a cluster situation, the Tournament of Roses will take into account factors, in no particular order, such as: the last time a team played in the Rose Bowl Game, head-to-head results, regular season schedule, overall record, opponents played, past playoff or bowl appearances and performance, and historical matchups.
It should be noted that it is the strong preference of the Tournament of Roses, Pac-12 and Big Ten Conferences, that the highest-ranked available team in each conference be selected as the replacement team.
That's all very interesting but if you read a little earlier in the same article it says
In what is known as a "traditional" Rose Bowl Game year, the 2023 Rose Bowl Game is contractually obligated to feature the Pac-12 Conference Champion and the Big Ten Conference Champion.
It then goes on to state what would happen if the Big Ten champion is selected to play in the CFP, in which case the champion is released from its obligation to play in the Rose Bowl and the Rose Bowl is free to pick another team of its own choosing from the Big Ten as a replacement.
BUT that's only if the Big Ten champion goes to the CFP. In this case the Big Ten champion is Purdue, so the Rose Bowl has to take Purdue.
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(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FjEfk0lWIAE3uqY?format=jpg&name=small)
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I guess to do new projections now would be almost pointless because we will know soon enough who is going where. We can make certain assumptions.
Mich and OSU are both probably in the playoffs. Mich will be #2 seed and play in Fiesta Bowl. OSU will be either #3 or #4 seed. If they are #3 they will play Mich in a rematch in the Fiesta Bowl. If they are #4, they will play #1 Georgia in the Peach Bowl.
This means PSU will go to the Rose Bowl and play PAC champion Utah.
Purdue will probably go to the Citrus
I am guessing Illinois will go to the Reliaquest.
Minnesota will probably go to the Pinstripe. Sorry Minnesota fans.
Iowa to Duke's Mayo and MD to Music City, or maybe it will be the other way around.
That leaves Wisc for the guarunteed Rate Bowl.
The Quick Lane Bowl will once again go unfilled by the Big Ten.
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pinstripe = low fans as who wants to go to NY and sit so far away from the field and freeze?
dont care who goes there is not going to be fans clammering to go there
did Texas and Florida run out of stadiums to play football games in?
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I pulled some strings! We'll get to see LSU vs Purdue!
LSU -5.5 pts
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pinstripe = low fans as who wants to go to NY and sit so far away from the field and freeze?
dont care who goes there is not going to be fans clammering to go there
did Texas and Florida run out of stadiums to play football games in?
The only good thing I can say about the Pinstripe Bowl is that no Big Ten school has been forced to go twice since the Big Ten's contract started in 2014. Counting Minn in 2022, It has now been 8 different teams in 9 years with nobody going in 2020. Rutgers has never gone as a Big Ten team but last went to the Pinstripe in 2013 as a member of the AAC.
The down side is that eventually everybody gets a turn, and must play at least one time in the Pinstripe, and unfortunately for Minnesota it was Minnesota's turn. If Rutgers ever gets bowl elligible again with a record anywhere from 6-6 to 8-4, I can almost guaruntee they will go to the Pinstripe.
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NYC is actually a really popular holiday destination.
I'm not sure why, it doesn't make a lick of sense to me. But it is.
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Restaurants, plays, city life, etc., it's not my bag, but it is for some.
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I'm not visiting New York, not for a football game
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And not in winter, though I have done that once, and the weather was incredibly nice in February.
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Restaurants, plays, city life, etc., it's not my bag, but it is for some.
Huh? ya right :dance:
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Restaurants, plays, city life, etc., it's not my bag, but it is for some.
Long lines, overly expensive hotels and entertainment, crowds everywhere....
It's like the old Yogi Berra line. Nobody goes to that restaurant anymore, it's too crowded.
Ok, I have to admit I have a particular dislike for NYC. I avoid it like the plague. I don't even book connecting flights through New York anymore.
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Been there once went up to the WTC observation deck.Had Chili Dog,potato waiffers and Molsen and it was like 3x the price of what it would fetch back home.Much prefered my Canadian Vacations
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I’ve been to NYC twice. Went once in my early 20’s and liked it. Then I lived in Singapore for a couple years and ended back in NYC after. I realized big city life like that should only happen in nice, warm weather near the equator. Have had no desire to go back, but constantly dream of walking the Singapore and Thailand Streets again.
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I’ve been to NYC twice. Went once in my early 20’s and liked it. Then I lived in Singapore for a couple years and ended back in NYC after. I realized big city life like that should only happen in nice, warm weather near the equator. Have had no desire to go back, but constantly dream of walking the Singapore and Thailand Streets again.
Isn't Bangkok dangerous - supposedly?
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Isn't Bangkok dangerous - supposedly?
I was in my late 20’s and all over SE Asia so quite possibly could have been blind to true dangers. Thailand to me was incredible. I had a couple nights there that were like a movie, one where I ended up in a warehouse off a dirt road and upon going inside it was a Thai Boxing matches until 4 am, which then lead to me going to the dance clubs with a group of English guys sitting next to me at the boxing. I woke up in a random hotel and caught a ride on the back of a random guy riding a motorcycle back to my hotel. That lead to a massive fight with my girl, who her and her friends went to bed early. Tough to explain to her that story.
I would say Indonesia felt less safe to me than Bangkok. Probably parts of Vietnam as well. Thailand was amazing. Cambodia also up there but poverty levels in Cambodia were sad and also very weird massage parlors in Cambodia.
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I've visited New York City a couple of times, both in the spring/summer. Mrs. GR wants to go to the Thanksgiving parade there one year. Neat place to visit but wouldn't live there.
Summer In The City was written about NYC.
https://youtu.be/U7ofnHmxE-I