CFB51 College Football Fan Community
The Power Five => Big Ten => Topic started by: OrangeAfroMan on November 15, 2022, 10:18:57 PM
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Post any and all teams you feel got slighted.
I don't feel an undefeated G5 being passed over for a 1-loss P5 qualifies, sorry.
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Some examples:
2004 Auburn (undefeated, but behind USC and OU)
2011 Oklahoma State (1-loss, passed over for 1-loss Alabama's rematch with LSU)
2007 Kansas (1-loss, ranked behind six different 2-loss teams, in the season of crazy)
2008 Texas (ranked behind OU, despite having h2h, in 3-way tie for XII South)
2003 USC (ranked #1 by AP, left out of BCSCG)
2000 Miami (ranked behind FSU, despite having won h2h)
1994 Penn St (undefeated season, no split NC)
1993 West Virginia (2004 Auburn situation)
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A lot of teams that were on probation could have a gripe (12 OSU, 93 Auburn, 84 Florida, etc), but since they were on probation, the voters punished them and ho-hum. That's how it goes.
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1992 Texas A&M (undefeated regular season, ignored)
1987 Syracuse (same as 92 A&M)
1983 Auburn (ranked 3rd going into bowls, 1 & 2 lost, but didn't win the NC)
1982 SMU (left out due to a tie, fell behind teams with a loss)
1977 Alabama (see 83 Auburn)
1976 Maryland (undefeated regular season, ranked behind two 1-loss teams, no chance at NC)
1966 Alabama (won previous 2 NCs, ranked 3rd despite going undefeated)
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I'm sure there's more, but which ones did I miss??
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Those early 90’s A&M teams are somewhat of a mystery for me.
I don’t know much about CFB from that era except that the SWC was considered weak at the time. We had an undefeated season, and as I recall lost a close game to FSU in the cotton bowl on a cold day. By a score of like 10-2. There is some woebegone stories of maybe an int or some such where they inexplicably fumbled just before crossing the goal line, which would have given us the win.
We played some really good ball from the mid 80’s thru about the mid 90’s. And really haven’t done shit since, sadly.
1994 we were undefeated but were on probation for basically the same thing Rhett Bomar did at OU but whatever.
(https://i.imgur.com/QPbK0uA.png)
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Didn’t 2003 USC get a split title?
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Didn’t 2003 USC get a split title?
Yes, but if you're ranked #1 by one poll and not in the top 2 of the other, you don't even get a shot at the full NC.
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1944 OSU went undefeated the same year as Army, during the height of WWII patriotism.
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1944 OSU went undefeated the same year as Army, during the height of WWII patriotism.
Did they beat teams 56-4?
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Post any and all teams you feel got slighted.
I don't feel an undefeated G5 being passed over for a 1-loss P5 qualifies, sorry.
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Some examples:
2008 Texas (ranked behind OU, despite having h2h, in 3-way tie for XII South)
2000 Miami (ranked behind FSU, despite having won h2h)
Using h2h as a criteria is a funny thing in college football.
If you are going to list 2008 10-1 Texas, then you also have to list 2008 10-1 Texas Tech, ranked behind Texas despite have beat Texas h2h in a 3-way tie for first in the Big 12 south.
If you are going to list 2000 11-1 Miami, you have to also list 2000 11-1 Washington, who beat Miami h2h. I have always found it bizarre that so many people argue that Miami was screwed out of a national championship in 2000 because they won h2h against FSU while blatantly ignoring the fact that Miami lost h2h to 11-1 Washington.
But the classic h2h slight has to be 1993 11-1 Notre Dame, who finished behind 1993 11-1 FSU, despite beating FSU h2h. The funny thing is in 1989, when 11-1 Miami was voted ahead of 11-1 Notre Dame, the primary reason given was Miami's h2h victory over Notre Dame. Needless to say Lou Holtz was very confused in 1993.
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Speaking of h2h, there are also famous controversies when the 2 teams tied.
In 1966, Notre Dame and Michigan State tied, but Notre Dame was voted nation Champion over MSU.
In 1973, Michigan and Ohio State tied and both teams finished the regular season tied for first in the Big Ten at 10-0-1. At the time there was a rule that only 1 Big Ten team would go to a bowl each year, the Rose Bowl. Also there was a guideline that when 2 teams tied for the Big Ten title, the last team to play in the Rose Bowl gets to go. So by rule, Michigan should have gone to the Rose Bowl since OSU went the year before. But instead the Big Ten decided to have each university vote on it, and OSU won the vote and got to go to the Rose Bowl for the 2nd year in a row, and Michigan stayed home.
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Did they beat teams 56-4?
Did anyone on your list meet this unusual requirement?
Literally the first team that you mentioned went undefeated, but didn't have the style points of the other two undefeated teams, with 2004 Auburn.
Troll thread.
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1946 UGA, 11-0 but ranked behind two teams with a tie at 9-0-1.
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great off-seaon topic
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In 1973, Michigan and Ohio State tied and both teams finished the regular season tied for first in the Big Ten at 10-0-1. At the time there was a rule that only 1 Big Ten team would go to a bowl each year, the Rose Bowl. Also there was a guideline that when 2 teams tied for the Big Ten title, the last team to play in the Rose Bowl gets to go. So by rule, Michigan should have gone to the Rose Bowl since OSU went the year before. But instead the Big Ten decided to have each university vote on it, and OSU won the vote and got to go to the Rose Bowl for the 2nd year in a row, and Michigan stayed home.
becasue *ichigan still sucks.
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Did they beat teams 56-4?
the OSU beat 4 ranked teams(UW,Great Lakes Navy,Indiana,Michigan) not two (Notre Dame,Navy).But most teams had their rosters gutted because the WWII
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Speaking of h2h, there are also famous controversies when the 2 teams tied.
In 1966, Notre Dame and Michigan State tied, but Notre Dame was voted nation Champion over MSU.
In 1973, Michigan and Ohio State tied and both teams finished the regular season tied for first in the Big Ten at 10-0-1. At the time there was a rule that only 1 Big Ten team would go to a bowl each year, the Rose Bowl. Also there was a guideline that when 2 teams tied for the Big Ten title, the last team to play in the Rose Bowl gets to go. So by rule, Michigan should have gone to the Rose Bowl since OSU went the year before. But instead the Big Ten decided to have each university vote on it, and OSU won the vote and got to go to the Rose Bowl for the 2nd year in a row, and Michigan stayed home.
The rule about back to back Rose Bowls had already been changed before the season started.
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apparently, Bo didn't know politics
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Not sure if this is the type of thing you're looking for, but just in case....
The 1908 LSU Tigers team posted a perfect 10-0, outscoring opponents 442-11 on the season. Near as most accounts can recover (and it's not easy to find articles within the time-frame, as opposed to historical pieces after the fact), LSU would've been selected by most of the various polling organizations of the time as a national champion, although it appears that wasn't nearly as much of a thing as conference champions at that time. However, Auburn sportswriter Grantland Rice accused LSU of paying QB Doc Fenton and some other players and then convinced Tulane to join in the accusations, and due to the shroud of controversy the SIAA sportswriters picked Auburn as the 1908 SIAA (forerunner to the SEC) champion and left off all LSU players from all-conference selections.
The SIAA conducted an investigation, eventually clearing LSU of any wrongdoing, but the votes were already cast prior to the investigation's conclusion. The various governing bodies, including the NCAA, retroactively recognize LSU as national champions, although the school itself does not claim 1908. I wish they would.
So I don't know how "screwed" you can say a team is that was later recognized by external governing entities as a national champion, but their season at the time was certainly for naught. If nothing else, it proves that Auburn has always been Auburn, since the dawn of time.
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The rule about back to back Rose Bowls had already been changed before the season started.
I thought that happened in the 80's.
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Speaking of h2h, there are also famous controversies when the 2 teams tied.
In 1966, Notre Dame and Michigan State tied, but Notre Dame was voted nation Champion over MSU.
not only that, but bama was preseason #1 that year, went undefeated and won bowl game. only time in cfb history a team has been preseason #1, gone undefeated, won bowl, and not won the title.
i've seen some argue nd and/or msu played tougher schedules, and perhaps that's true. but it isn't materially different. bama played 3 teams ranked at end of season in coaches poll (only ranked 20 at this time), and 1 in ap (only 10 ranked at this time). all away from home (2 away, 1 bowl). bama went 3-0. nd played 3 in coaches and 2 in ap, 1 home, 2 away (1 h, 1a for ap), went 2-0-1 (1-0-1 ap). msu played 2 in coaches and ap, both at home, went 1-0-1.
bama was also back to back defending national champs (ap). though, similar to these arguments, it can be argued that bama shouldn't have won in '64 (lost bowl).
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I thought that happened in the 80's.
me too
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The operative term I think is "voted", like picking your homecoming queen or something.
The other one is "mythical" ...
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not only that, but bama was preseason #1 that year, went undefeated and won bowl game. only time in cfb history a team has been preseason #1, gone undefeated, won bowl, and not won the title.
i've seen some argue nd and/or msu played tougher schedules, and perhaps that's true. but it isn't materially different. bama played 3 teams ranked at end of season in coaches poll (only ranked 20 at this time), and 1 in ap (only 10 ranked at this time). all away from home (2 away, 1 bowl). bama went 3-0. nd played 3 in coaches and 2 in ap, 1 home, 2 away (1 h, 1a for ap), went 2-0-1 (1-0-1 ap). msu played 2 in coaches and ap, both at home, went 1-0-1.
bama was also back to back defending national champs (ap). though, similar to these arguments, it can be argued that bama shouldn't have won in '64 (lost bowl).
I'd scoff at this, but by this logic I can claim a screwing for a team in 2011 that went 13-1 against one of the most difficult schedules in history, winning their conference and drilling two other conference champions in the process, while a 12-1 non-conference winner with an empirically weaker schedule who went 1-1 against the first team won a NC.
So I'm gonna let it slide.
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I thought that happened in the 80's.
1972
osu playe din 4 straight, from 73-76.
in 1975 the b1g allowed more than 1 team to go bowling.
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I'd scoff at this, but by this logic I can claim a screwing for a team in 2011 that went 13-1 against one of the most difficult schedules in history, winning their conference and drilling two other conference champions in the process, while a 12-1 non-conference winner with an empirically weaker schedule who went 1-1 against the first team won a NC.
So I'm gonna let it slide.
you can scoff. i just wrote facts.
i've long held that the 2011 lsu team should be considered among the best in history for those very reasons you said. had ok st not faltered and let bama back in, they'd have beat 3 other conf champs along with bama. and convincingly, too.
aside from bama. :)
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Facts don't care about my feelings.
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1972
osu playe din 4 straight, from 73-76.
in 1975 the b1g allowed more than 1 team to go bowling.
so, it didn't happen in 72?
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I seriously don't understand, especially after reading this thread, why so many are opposed to playoff expansion. All of these teams seems like they were just randomly screwed out of something akin to a beauty pagent process. Everybody votes their favorite.
I really had no idea of all these old time controversies, only the ones from the last 25 or so years.
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I don't like a 12 team playoff, and having it doesn't mean a team can't get slighted. I could abide a six team playoff, I just view 12 as WAY too many.
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The rule about back to back Rose Bowls had already been changed before the season started.
True, but that would have been a better tiebreaker than what they came up with. The conference vote was all about alliances and had nothing to do with their on-field performance. They should have just defaulted to their old philosophy of giving it to the team that had gone the longest without going to the Rose Bowl.
This must have become the official 3rd tiebreaker rule again at some point. Because Iowa went to the 1982 Rose Bowl following the 1981 season after they tied OSU with a 6-2 conference record. First tiebreaker was h2h but Iowa and OSU did not play. 2nd was overall record but both were 8-3 overall. 3rd tiebreaker was which team had gone the longest without a Rose Bowl, which was Iowa.
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I don't like a 12 team playoff, and having it doesn't mean a team can't get slighted. I could abide a six team playoff, I just view 12 as WAY too many.
eight team playoff with p5 conference champs plus 3 at large
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eight team playoff with p5 conference champs plus 3 at large
It's not gonna be P5 much longer. The SEC and B1G are going to crush the others.
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Big 12 and PAC are doomed
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Big 12 and PAC are doomed
ACC too, when the SEC and B1G get done with it.
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so, it didn't happen in 72?
the b1g had few different rules.
1st - a team could not go to the rose bowl 2 times in a row. this ended for the 1972 season (1973 rose bowl). that's how osu played in 4 consecutive from the '73-'76 rose bowls (72-75 seasons).
2nd - only 1 team could go bowling. and with the rose bowl tie-in, meant they could only go to the rose. this ended in 1975, mainly because mich had been screwed from the prior rule change above. they had great seasons all 4 years after that rule change, but couldn't go bowling cause osu got rose bid and only 1 could go bowling. they went 10-1, 10-0-1, 10-1, and 10-1 from 1972-1974, but couldn't go bowling.
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mich had been screwed from the prior rule change above. they had great seasons all 4 years after that rule change, but couldn't go bowling cause osu got rose bid and only 1 could go bowling. they went 10-1, 10-0-1, 10-1, and 10-1 from 1972-1974, but couldn't go bowling.
(https://i.imgur.com/825IFed.png)
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(https://i.imgur.com/825IFed.png)
(https://media.tenor.com/nwoJ4BS0XHYAAAAC/oh-no-anyway.gif)
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so, it didn't happen in 72?
In 1972 Big Ten allowed a team to go to the Rose Bowl in consecutive years
In 1975 Big Ten allowed other teams to go to other bowl games.
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Using h2h as a criteria is a funny thing in college football.
If you are going to list 2008 10-1 Texas, then you also have to list 2008 10-1 Texas Tech, ranked behind Texas despite have beat Texas h2h in a 3-way tie for first in the Big 12 south.
If you are going to list 2000 11-1 Miami, you have to also list 2000 11-1 Washington, who beat Miami h2h. I have always found it bizarre that so many people argue that Miami was screwed out of a national championship in 2000 because they won h2h against FSU while blatantly ignoring the fact that Miami lost h2h to 11-1 Washington.
But the classic h2h slight has to be 1993 11-1 Notre Dame, who finished behind 1993 11-1 FSU, despite beating FSU h2h. The funny thing is in 1989, when 11-1 Miami was voted ahead of 11-1 Notre Dame, the primary reason given was Miami's h2h victory over Notre Dame. Needless to say Lou Holtz was very confused in 1993.
I totally agree.
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the OSU beat 4 ranked teams(UW,Great Lakes Navy,Indiana,Michigan) not two (Notre Dame,Navy).But most teams had their rosters gutted because the WWII
Yeah, wartime sports is wonky.
Army was already a powerhouse and during WWII, they added the best players from a few other schools to boot. So while OSU or any other number of teams had great seasons in '44 and '45, they couldn't measure up to Army.
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I seriously don't understand, especially after reading this thread, why so many are opposed to playoff expansion. All of these teams seems like they were just randomly screwed out of something akin to a beauty pagent process. Everybody votes their favorite.
I really had no idea of all these old time controversies, only the ones from the last 25 or so years.
The most egregious one is probably '66 Alabama, as it was likely a "southern racism" thing. I'm not sure how much strength of schedule matters when you allow 4 points per game, lol. They shut out 6 teams and only 2 scored more than 7 points, of which #6 Nebraska wasn't one (Sugar Bowl).
The ND-MSU game is still so famous as a "Game of the Century" 1 v 2 matchup that most people don't realize MSU's vaunted defense was much better in 1965. ND actually had the killer D in '66.
Looking at the week-by-week rankings will just make you think all the voters were stupid and random (some things never change). Alabama fell from #1 to #3 before playing a game, and MSU bypassed them with an unremarkable win over an unremarkable team.
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Personally, I'm sympathetic to 83 Auburn. #1 loses bowl, #2 loses bowl, Auburn's 3rd and win their bowl over #8. Remain 3rd.
What the fuk?
Not only that, but here's their exact schedule to close out the regular season, while themselves are ranked 4th, then 3rd:
W vs #5 Florida
W vs #7 Maryland
W @ #4 Georgia
W v #19 Alabama
Then the bowl win over #8 Michigan.
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Final ranking: 3rd.
If I was the HC of that team, I would have quit football altogether.
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Facts don't care about my feelings.
Idk man.....at least cross the 50, right? I mean shit.