CFB51 College Football Fan Community
The Power Five => Big Ten => Topic started by: nuwildcat on August 21, 2017, 03:58:42 PM
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For me, I'll go with the 4 teams I associated with greatness wayyyyyy before I was even remotely interested in college football (my love for the sport and the 'Cats unsurprisingly started in '95):
Michigan
Nebraska
Ohio State
Penn State
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I'm hard pressed to disagree with those four.
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Michigan and Ohio State are the marquee helmets for sure.
But I think most college football fans would consider Nebraska and Penn State to be in their top 10/11.
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Michigan
Nebraska
Ohio State
Penn State
cut and dried in my mind
Michigan State would be next with Wisconsin following, they have a chance to move into "helmet" with a couple decades of sustained success and a few national titles
not easy
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Those are the four.
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Is it unfair for what I'd describe as Nebraska's bleak future to come into play? OSU & Michigan would be my answer. PSU and UNL....I don't know. We'll see if PSU still matters in 2018. The Huskers? I have a hard time seeing how they get back up the mountain.
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The thread title should be changed to "Are Nebraska and PSU helmets?"
2 schools clearly are, 10 schools clearly aren't.
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Ohio State, Michigan, and Penn State.
Nebraska has been a "helmet school." The future for Nebraska is somewhere between Iowa and Michigan State. Above average.
If Nebraska were to recruit a top coach, they could be Wisconsin good. It's hard to win national championships when there are 6 - 7 teams in the conference that are competitive.
Most years in the Big 8 there were two competitive teams. Occasionally, but not usually, Mizzou, or Colorado would be competitive. Is it possible recruiting was better for Nebraska in the Big 8 / Big 12, than being on the western periphery of the Big 10?
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Ohio State - about as good as a program can get
Michigan - some time in the wilderness lately possibly on an upswing
Penn State - again, some down time, but apparently on an upswing
Nebraska - has been one of those 8-9-10 win programs lately that is "OK" but tarnishing
Wisconsin - does the most with the least, can be very good unexpectedly
Iowa - some rich history but great seasons are sporadic
Minnesota - some almost ancient history trying to get back to decent
Northwestern - Not much history but also with occasionally tough teams
Michigan State - sporadic history and some recent success
Illinois - a sleeping program
The rest are struggling to get on the list above which is obviously pretty generous.
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I agree with the OP. However, just from a design and appearance perspective, I would pick Maryland, Michigan State, Michigan, and Iowa.
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Michigan State - sporadic history and some recent success
I think I've posted this before, but MSU is rarely what their aggregate profile says they are. I think in terms of winning percentage and all-time AP poll, they slot in right around #20. But they are almost never that. They are either top 5-10 or really bad, and then just wind up falling in the middle. In the 50s and 60s, they were right there with any program in the nation. Then were awful for about 15 years. Then Perles had them back from the mid-80s through the early 90s. Then about another 15 years of nothing til Dantonio got them back.
So maybe it's time for a lull?
Really only the late Perles through Saban years (like 91-98) was their longest stretch of just being decent, nothing more, nothing less.
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Ohio State - about as good as a program can get
Michigan - some time in the wilderness lately possibly on an upswing
Penn State - again, some down time, but apparently on an upswing
Nebraska - has been one of those 8-9-10 win programs lately that is "OK" but tarnishing
Wisconsin - does the most with the least, can be very good unexpectedly
Iowa - some rich history but great seasons are sporadic
Minnesota - some almost ancient history trying to get back to decent
Northwestern - Not much history but also with occasionally tough teams
Michigan State - sporadic history and some recent success
Illinois - a sleeping program
The rest are struggling to get on the list above which is obviously pretty generous.
I would go with that except that I'd have MSU somewhere between Nebraska and Iowa. Interchange UW and MSU between those two and I won't argue, because you have UNL and Iowa ranked where I would have them, with UW and MSU in between.
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I wasn't exactly ranking them, just offering comments from an outsider in effect.
There are three basic groups I think.
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Nebraska is in better shape than Michigan.
I) They have been elite more recently
II) They have higher expectations
-Nebraska fires coaches that can't win more than ten games per season, win Conference Titles, or who lose in a NC game.
-Michigan acts like they are back on top of the mountain, after posting back to back ten win seasons/third place B1G East finishes.
III) Nebraska has the best coach of the modern era.
-Tom Osborne: Three NCs; winning Bowl record
-Bo Schembechler: Zer0 NCs; abysmal Bowl record
A fella would have to drastically over hype the era between the Civil War and WWII in order to make a sound argument that Michigan is the better program historically.
A fella would have to be drinking the Maize and Blue kool aid in order to believe that Michigan has a better program than Nebraska, going forward.
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osu
mich
neb
psu is on edge, but i'd say in
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Nebraska is in better shape than Michigan.
I) They have been elite more recently
II) They have higher expectations
-Nebraska fires coaches that can't win more than ten games per season, win Conference Titles, or who lose in a NC game.
-Michigan acts like they are back on top of the mountain, after posting back to back ten win seasons/third place B1G East finishes.
III) Nebraska has the best coach of the modern era.
-Tom Osborne: Three NCs; winning Bowl record
-Bo Schembechler: Zer0 NCs; abysmal Bowl record
A fella would have to drastically over hype the era between the Civil War and WWII in order to make a sound argument that Michigan is the better program historically.
A fella would have to be drinking the Maize and Blue kool aid in order to believe that Michigan has a better program than Nebraska, going forward.
LOL wow! I'm a disinterested observer, as a Purdue fan, since we barely field a football team. But that seems like so much sour buckeye nuts...
Michigan was in the weeds for a few years, but I'd argue that the shine's been knocked off Nebraska. Given demographic changes and population centers, Nebraska is fighting an uphill battle to keep their helmet status while Michigan's is solid.
Michigan is 4th in 2017 recruiting ranking and two-year (16-17) recruiting ranking, and while they're 19th in 5-year recruiting rank, they're obviously trending up under Harbaugh. Nebraska is 22nd in 2017 and in two-year rank, and 26th in 5-year rank. (Source. (https://www.sbnation.com/college-football-recruiting/2017/2/2/14483388/college-football-recruiting-rankings-2017-multiple-years)) Michigan is 5th in revenue, Nebraska is again 22nd, so there's a money gap too. (Source. (http://sports.usatoday.com/ncaa/finances/))
If all this is happening just at the point when Michigan is coming out of a decade-long nadir while Nebraska has the excitement of a new conference, I find it difficult to see how Nebraska will keep up if Michigan truly is "back".
I find it hard to take an argument seriously that Nebraska is in better shape than Michigan.
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I really like Mike Riley (as a person especially) but what UNL needs is for Scott Frost to light it up at UCF and then come back to UNL to be the head coach.
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LOL wow! I'm a disinterested observer, as a Purdue fan, since we barely field a football team. But that seems like so much sour buckeye nuts...
Michigan was in the weeds for a few years, but I'd argue that the shine's been knocked off Nebraska. Given demographic changes and population centers, Nebraska is fighting an uphill battle to keep their helmet status while Michigan's is solid.
Michigan is 4th in 2017 recruiting ranking and two-year (16-17) recruiting ranking, and while they're 19th in 5-year recruiting rank, they're obviously trending up under Harbaugh. Nebraska is 22nd in 2017 and in two-year rank, and 26th in 5-year rank. (Source. (https://www.sbnation.com/college-football-recruiting/2017/2/2/14483388/college-football-recruiting-rankings-2017-multiple-years)) Michigan is 5th in revenue, Nebraska is again 22nd, so there's a money gap too. (Source. (http://sports.usatoday.com/ncaa/finances/))
If all this is happening just at the point when Michigan is coming out of a decade-long nadir while Nebraska has the excitement of a new conference, I find it difficult to see how Nebraska will keep up if Michigan truly is "back".
I find it hard to take an argument seriously that Nebraska is in better shape than Michigan.
yeah. gonna have to agree with bwar.
One school has Jim Harbaugh sucking up all the national headlines and going into places like Georgia and Cali and Florida landing 5*'s and 4*'s, the other has Mike Riley. Harbaugh's first real class was 2016- it was ranked #8 overall in the 247Composite Team Rankings. His 2017 class was ranked 5th. Nebraska's in those two seasons? 23rd and 26th respectively. Harbaugh's 2018 class is off to a slow start by his standards as it's only ranked 15th currently- but it's still pretty early and he's bound to have an ace or two up his recruiting sleeve. Nebraska meanwhile is ranked 21 spots lower at 36th on the 2018 list. And Harbaugh is already off to a white hot 2019 start- he's only got 4 commits but two of those commits are DL's rated 5*'s and the other two are rated 4*'s.
So not only is Harbaugh the better coach, he's getting more talent to coach up.
CFB is all about the coach. Michigan has the better coach. By a country mile. And big advantages in recruiting. The state of Michigan doesn't produce a ton of top talent- but it produces far more talent than the state of Nebraska.
I think the helmets are clearly Ohio State and then Michigan, and with Nebraska fading away and Penn State re-emerging.
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I really like Mike Riley (as a person especially) but what UNL needs is for Scott Frost to light it up at UCF and then come back to UNL to be the head coach.
Pretty big IF. Not a believer in Frost. At all. There is way too much assclown and not enough great football coach in him to put up with the insane amounts of assclown.
Nebraska has the money. If the AD had half a freaking brain he'd fire Mike Riley's old mediocre ass today and back up the Brinks truck to a guy working at ESPN named Chip. Instant credibility. Instant home-run. Instant winning. Culture fit- he's got a Tom Osbourne style offense but for the 21st century. Swing for the fences. Go big or go home Big Red.
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Madison is home to Big Red.
Your statement is therefore confusing to me.
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Michigan is only 7 spots ahead of Nebraska in five year recruiting, and that's supposed to be a feather in their cap? They are in a much better region for recruiting than Nebraska, and Hoke/Harbaugh had supposedly been killin' it on the recruiting trail.
Nebraska fires a coach that won 9 games and finished third in the B1G West, but Michigan is "back" because they hired a guy who twice won ten games and finished third in the B1G East?
Population shifts? Have you taken a peek at what is going on in Detroit?
CFB has undergone a lot of changes since the 90s and none of them are good for Nebraska, but Michigan hasn't been elite since the 40s.
Harbaugh is Pelini-esque in his Michigan tenure so far.
Bo Schembechler was Earl Bruce: Zero NCs, putrid bowl record, barely over .500 in THE GAME.
Lloyd Carr was okay, I guess. Splitting a NC...
...with Nebraska.
Both programs are in about the same place right now. Nebraska strives to be better. Michigan thinks they are already great.
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Nebraska is in better shape than Michigan.
This is all the wrongs.
Nebraska has won nothing since abandoning their identity (the option). It's nowhere near any special recruiting grounds. It lacks the special coaching required to matter, given the talent it brings in. The outlook is bleak.
Not trying to offend anyone at all. I just don't see it. Florida's been down, I know. But there's hope. There's talent all around. There's a rep. There's something.
Are UNL fans optimistic about the next 10 years?
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I don't fault Michigan's enthusiasm, but riddle me this.
Where would they be right now if Harbaugh had taken an NFL job instead?
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I don't fault Michigan's enthusiasm, but riddle me this.
Where would they be right now if Harbaugh had taken an NFL job instead?
They'd have just as many titles so far as they do with him.
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They'd have just as many titles so far as they do with him.
they sure wouldn't be 20-6 the past two years with most of those L's being by a razor thin margin. Aside from the blowout OSU loss in 2015, the other 5 losses were...
@Utah at night by 7 in his first game ever as the coach with a QB that Kirk Ferentz didn't want and was OK with letting transfer in-conference.
MSU in Ann Arbor with 8 seconds left in the friggin' game off a fluke play.
@Iowa at night by 1 point after Speight got his shoulder broken half.
@Ohio State by 3 in Double OT in a thriller of a game.
FSU in the bowl game by 1 point after the best CB they've had in like a decade and who had been friggin dominant all season long gives up a TD pass with seconds left in the game.
I mean those 5 losses were by RAZOR thin margins. Losing sucks. But how you lose matters. Especially when you consider before him Michigan was getting clowned on the field by just about anybody with a pulse. I expected him to turn the ship around for sure. Didn't expect him to turn it around so freaking quickly. Especially when he wasn't left with a whole lot at QB.
I think 2017 the schedule sets up very nicely and by 2018 he should have this program firing on all cylinders going forward and at the point where he doesn't have to replace because all he'll do is just reload like the BAMA and OSU's of the world.
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Michigan is only 7 spots ahead of Nebraska in five year recruiting, and that's supposed to be a feather in their cap? They are in a much better region for recruiting than Nebraska, and Hoke/Harbaugh had supposedly been killin' it on the recruiting trail.
Yes, only 7 spots ahead in 5-year recruiting. Which is why it's important to look at what's being done now given that both teams have added new coaches during that span. Michigan's new coach has put together great recruiting classes. Nebraska's has put together decent recruiting classes. That's why the 2017 and the 2-year rankings have diverged so much.
Nebraska fires a coach that won 9 games and finished third in the B1G West, but Michigan is "back" because they hired a guy who twice won ten games and finished third in the B1G East?
I love this. It's the quintessential sports fan logic. Nebraska somehow gets credit for high expectations, despite the fact that Riley hasn't shown in 2 years that he can best Pelini. Of course it's only two years, but Pelini never won fewer than 9, and Riley's best season in 2 years is 9 wins. Michigan won 10 games both years. Nebraska won 6 and then 9, and that was in the weaker B1G West. Cross-division, Nebraska faced MSU in 2015 and OSU in 2016, but never faced Michigan or Penn State. Michigan has to play all three of those teams each year.
Harbaugh is Pelini-esque in his Michigan tenure so far.
Harbaugh is recruiting like a helmet.
And Riley can't even be called Pelini-esque yet. Squeaking into a bowl as a 5-7 team wasn't something Pelini did in year 1. He won 9 games.
Both programs are in about the same place right now. Nebraska strives to be better. Michigan thinks they are already great.
Nebraska "strives to be better" by firing a very good coach who never won fewer than 9 games and picking up a guy whose best season in the PAC-12 was a 7-2 conference record, and 3 of his last 5 seasons at OrSU were losing seasons. Michigan picked up a guy who rebuilt Stanford--STANFORD, for chrissakes!--into a conference powerhouse before being a successful but prickly coach at the sport's highest level, then came right into Michigan and railed off 2 consecutive 10-win seasons.
Oh, and from another post on the B1G board about "blue chip ratio" (https://www.sbnation.com/a/cfb-preview-2017/blue-chip-ratio), guess which one has 61% of their roster made up of 4*/5* recruits (even after losing all those players to the NFL) and which one has 19% of their roster made up of 4*/5* recruits? Yep, Michigan.
So tell me again how both programs are in the same place right now?
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Man, you guys are acting as though I said that Michigan State or Purdue were in better shape than the Wolverines, going forward. This is Nebraska. One of the most storied programs in CFB history. Both are undisputed helmets in my opinion.
Michigan recruits only slightly better right now, with excessive advantages in regional recruiting and two coaches who were supposedly recruiting at a much higher clip than they were accustomed.
Michigan THINKS they hired an elite coach. The jury is still out on that one. Right now, he's Bo Pelini, only with a worse record in rivalry games.
Had they not landed Hairball, they'd be in MUCH worse shape than Nebraska. They would have crawled on their hands and knees across broken glass from Ann Arbor to Baton Rouge in hopes of enthusiastically lapping up LSU's table scraps. Or worse, they would have wound up with a Mike Riley of their own, or another Brady Hoke/Rich Rod type.
Even with their dream coach they are 1-1 in Bowl Games, 0-2 vs OSU and 1-1 vs Sparty. Two third place B1G East finishes, and a couple of recruiting classes that may or may not turn out to be as good as Hoke's "amazing" recruiting classes.
I do agree that the Mike Riley hire was a bit of a head scratcher though.
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I'm just saying that to an outside observer (like me as a Purdue fan or OAM as a Florida fan), it looks like this is an ax to grind as an OSU fan against Michigan.
Michigan in 2 years has better recruiting, better W-L record in a tougher division, and [although I hate to acknowledge the degree to which this is important] about $50M more in annual revenue. You claim they haven't been elite since the 1940's, but given their recruiting, I think their ceiling is the national championship. Not saying Harbaugh will or won't win one, but they have the talent and recruiting to do it.
Although Nebraska was consistently a 9-10 win team under Pelini, that seemed like their ceiling. They were the "kings" of the B12 North, the weak division, and now they're in the B1G West, the weak division, where they're 1-3 against the top team in that league, Wisconsin. They seemed to think that replacing the coach would break through that ceiling, but recruiting is dropping under Riley and it's hard for a team like Nebraska to remain relevant going forward. And... They lost to Purdue under Darrell Hazell! :o
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they sure wouldn't be 20-6 the past two years with most of those L's being by a razor thin margin. Aside from the blowout OSU loss in 2015, the other 5 losses were...
@Utah at night by 7 in his first game ever as the coach with a QB that Kirk Ferentz didn't want and was OK with letting transfer in-conference.
MSU in Ann Arbor with 8 seconds left in the friggin' game off a fluke play.
@Iowa at night by 1 point after Speight got his shoulder broken half.
@Ohio State by 3 in Double OT in a thriller of a game.
FSU in the bowl game by 1 point after the best CB they've had in like a decade and who had been friggin dominant all season long gives up a TD pass with seconds left in the game.
I mean those 5 losses were by RAZOR thin margins. Losing sucks. But how you lose matters. Especially when you consider before him Michigan was getting clowned on the field by just about anybody with a pulse. I expected him to turn the ship around for sure. Didn't expect him to turn it around so freaking quickly. Especially when he wasn't left with a whole lot at QB.
I think 2017 the schedule sets up very nicely and by 2018 he should have this program firing on all cylinders going forward and at the point where he doesn't have to replace because all he'll do is just reload like the BAMA and OSU's of the world.
It was too easy to pass up though
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I'm just saying that to an outside observer (like me as a Purdue fan or OAM as a Florida fan), it looks like this is an ax to grind as an OSU fan against Michigan.
Michigan in 2 years has better recruiting, better W-L record in a tougher division, and [although I hate to acknowledge the degree to which this is important] about $50M more in annual revenue. You claim they haven't been elite since the 1940's, but given their recruiting, I think their ceiling is the national championship. Not saying Harbaugh will or won't win one, but they have the talent and recruiting to do it.
Although Nebraska was consistently a 9-10 win team under Pelini, that seemed like their ceiling. They were the "kings" of the B12 North, the weak division, and now they're in the B1G West, the weak division, where they're 1-3 against the top team in that league, Wisconsin. They seemed to think that replacing the coach would break through that ceiling, but recruiting is dropping under Riley and it's hard for a team like Nebraska to remain relevant going forward. And... They lost to Purdue under Darrell Hazell! :o
Nebraska could turn that tide literally instantly if they axed Mike Riley and threw the money it takes to land Chip Kelly. Football revenues would go up pretty quickly too.
Before Harbaugh the tickets to a Michigan game were stupid cheap. Hell they were running a promotion where you'd get a ticket for buying a bottle of coke. Tickets were still easy to come by and pretty cheap. People were just sick and tired of the losing. You could get tickets to the stinker games like UNLV, Oregon State, BYU for $30 or less on re-sale sites like StubHub and SeatGeek. After fees. Try getting tickets now on those re-sale sites to games like Cincinnati or Air Force. $100+ for the same quality of seat that two years ago were $30 for games of that caliber. Forget about the MSU/OSU games. He's brought so much excitement, enthusiasm, and MONEY to the program. Not a coincidence that Michigan football revenues have gone up since they hired Harbaugh. If he ever wins a National Title- revenues will just continue to explode.
Alabama was in the same position before Saban. Say what you want about how much they pay Saban- but the money he's brought them has DWARFED what they've paid him.
Chip could compete for titles at Nebraska. No doubt about it in my mind. Not saying he'd win a Title, but he'd have Nebraska knocking on the door. B1GCCG and Playoff berths would happen. He'd cost a lot, but he'd also bring in a heck of a lot more than he'd cost.
Takes money to make money.
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Do the higher ticket prices benefit the athletic department or the folks selling tickets on stubhub?
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Michigan recruits only slightly better right now, with excessive advantages in regional recruiting and two coaches who were supposedly recruiting at a much higher clip than they were accustomed.
Michigan THINKS they hired an elite coach. The jury is still out on that one. Right now, he's Bo Pelini, only with a worse record in rivalry games.
Ummmm, what planet do you live on dude?
Harbaugh is eviscerating Riley on the recruiting trail. Just look at their respective 2016 and 2017 classes, the current 2018 class and the future 2019 classes.
Jim Harbaugh is Bo Peilini? Lol. I think I've read it all now.
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Do the higher ticket prices benefit the athletic department or the folks selling tickets on stubhub?
just the people selling tickets on StubHub. But there is far greater demand for tickets which is why the re-sale sites are getting that kind of money now and which is also why the AD has raised the price for single game tickets by almost $4 a ticket and they've raised PSD's by 5% for 2017 and 2018. They don't do that and still sell out if they are losing and Hoke is the coach. I'll tell you that much right now.
Stadium holds over 109,000 and they have 8 home games a year basically. Even a small ticket increase is an extra couple million of dollars a year in revenue.
Also can't discount the increase big money donations winning generates from rich boosters with too much money and time on their hands nor the increased revenue from increase in merchandise sales. That's 100000% Harbaugh.
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Nebraska could turn that tide literally instantly if they axed Mike Riley and threw the money it takes to land Chip Kelly. Football revenues would go up pretty quickly too.
Chip could compete for titles at Nebraska. No doubt about it in my mind. Not saying he'd win a Title, but he'd have Nebraska knocking on the door. B1GCCG and Playoff berths would happen. He'd cost a lot, but he'd also bring in a heck of a lot more than he'd cost.
Takes money to make money.
Well, that might or might not be true. He managed to take Oregon to heights they'd never seen before, but he also had the benefit of Phil Knight's money. And while he was somewhat revolutionary with his schemes at the time, it's not like what he was doing is not much more well understood now by other coaches. Could he truly recruit at the level necessary? Lincoln is a LONG way from anywhere.
I think he'd be better than Mike Riley, though.
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I'm just saying that to an outside observer (like me as a Purdue fan or OAM as a Florida fan), it looks like this is an ax to grind as an OSU fan against Michigan.
If I had an ax to grind, it would be against Nebraska. They have a much better win percentage vs OSU so far this millennium.
Of course so does Purdue, so....
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love the discussion... really and truly
but the jury is still out on Harbaugh and Riley
for the past 68 seasons Michigan and Nebraska have nearly the same winning percentage
for the past 6 seasons the winning percentage is nearly the same
for the seasons between the past 68 and the past 6 the Huskers have the better winning percentage
History, tradition, trophies, awards, wins and losses the two programs are nearly equal.
obviously past performance is no indicator of future success, but a couple recruiting classes is also no indicator
My guess is that both programs will remain very strong and retain the helmet status
neither program is willing to squander the effort it took to gain this status, It's worth WAY too much filthy money!
which program will have a better run over the next 5 or 10 or 20 seasons? Hard to tell. I feel it comes down to coaching. Is Harbaugh that much better than Riley? Could Harbaugh out recruit Riley if he was in Lincoln, NE? Could Riley recruit better in Ann Arbor?
IS it all about recruiting? I think so, but you need the type of recruits for your program. And you need some luck to get those recruits to pan out and become all-conference and all-american caliber.
It appears to some that Harbaugh has the upper hand after two seasons.
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Pretty big IF. Not a believer in Frost. At all. There is way too much assclown and not enough great football coach in him to put up with the insane amounts of assclown.
Nebraska has the money. If the AD had half a freaking brain he'd fire Mike Riley's old mediocre ass today and back up the Brinks truck to a guy working at ESPN named Chip. Instant credibility. Instant home-run. Instant winning. Culture fit- he's got a Tom Osbourne style offense but for the 21st century. Swing for the fences. Go big or go home Big Red.
this from a fan of the biggest assclown in college football?
and you know as well as anyone, if Riley doesn't pan out, the AD will swing a little bigger next time
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this from a fan of the biggest assclown in college football?
and you know as well as anyone, if Riley doesn't pan out, the AD will swing a little bigger next time
Lol. I don't dispute Harbaugh's level of assclown. At the end of the day though he's a HELL of a football coach. He really truly is. There is just no denying it. He is a HELL of a football coach. Scott Frost ain't. Neither is Mike Riley.
If I'm Nebraska, why wait? Chip is there for the taking. So go get him. Make it happen. Do what it takes. Go get the best. Spare no expense. You already know what you have in Mike Riley. It ain't much. I thought there was no way Urban was going to Ohio State after the Tressel scandal. Thought there was no way Harbaugh was skipping out on NFL jobs to go to Michigan. Both happened. Why? The AD's had balls of steel and did whatever the F it took to get the best guy period. The best guy period out there right now for Nebraska is Chip Kelly. Nebraska needs to do whatever it takes to make it happen.
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Michigan wasn't really shelling out the big bucks until Urban came into the picture.
Riley had a far better resume than Brady Hoke.
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I'd rather Chip was hired three years ago than Riley, but Riley is the coach and I'll support him until he proves he can't win the Big Ten.
Hopefully his team improves in it's 3rd season with a QB that can throw the ball and a real defensive coordinator
2018 is the make or break season for Riley in my opinion. If Riley can't win 10 or 11 games and the West tile in 2018 I'll think he's no better than Pelini and it will be time to find a better coach.
Riley does seem to be recruiting better than Bo. We shall see if that helps him be successful.
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I don't fault Michigan's enthusiasm, but riddle me this.
Where would they be right now if Harbaugh had taken an NFL job instead?
Where will they be when Harbaugh goes back to the NFL?
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Well, that might or might not be true. He managed to take Oregon to heights they'd never seen before, but he also had the benefit of Phil Knight's money. And while he was somewhat revolutionary with his schemes at the time, it's not like what he was doing is not much more well understood now by other coaches. Could he truly recruit at the level necessary? Lincoln is a LONG way from anywhere.
I think he'd be better than Mike Riley, though.
Chip did have Knight's money, but he didn't have Big Ten money. And it's not like Eugene is a cultural mecca. 165K people live there. Lincoln as 275K.
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I could almost, almost buy the Nebraska is sitting better than M*ch, but they are not.
Adding the always loved transitive property:
M*ch's 2 3rd place finishes have come against elite helmet OSU performing at helmet level, and the B1G Champion.
Nebraska has lost to non-helmets in the west and the B1G West Representatives who then go on to lose the title. The title lose makes the west making them seem a step lower, making Nebraska seem a step lower.
Also Firing a guy who gets 9 wins with a guy who gets 6 wins doesn't scream of striving for excellence. It says we got rid of a loud mouth with a nice guy.
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The B1G is better without BoPeep on the sidelines.
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Nebraska has produced a lot of really good coaches for Ohio's mid-major programs.
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Some coaches around the country are looking at this year to define (further) whether they are great coaches or good coaches or just mediocre coaches. One is at Tennessee, which lost a lot of personnel. Another is at Michigan, which still has some horses obviously, but is facing an almost do or die situation in terms of winning a tough Big Ten division and conference.
What if Michigan indeed has a fine team but ends up 10-3 with a Citrus Bowl win over a 9-4 Auburn?
That could happen, obviously. I doubt Harbaugh is fired of course, but some grumbling might be heard. You can only show recruiting success for a few years if you don't win some hardware.
UGA fired a coach that whose last two seasons included 10 wins each and recruited well.
Expectations of course can lead to disappointment.
I wonder how Arky fans think of Bielma these days if they have a 7-6 kind of season.
USC is another team supposed to be there and might not be. And then Notre Dame is facing a year that is almost a "must win" kind of deal coming off a 4-8 campaign and a tough slate. What if they end up 8-5 or even 9-4?
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I've broached that topic with Michigan fans on here before.
I asked if Harbaugh never beats OSU, how many seasons of that would it take before he found himself on the hot seat?
The consensus is that they don't care if he never beats OSU. They are simply content to be a 9 or 10 win team that recruits well.
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Nebraska has produced a lot of really good coaches for Ohio's mid-major programs.
There might be another one coming. Who knows.
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What if Michigan ends up say 9-4 this year with a bowl loss and a loss to OSU?
Would that start some tarnish around the edges?
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What if Michigan indeed has a fine team but ends up 10-3 with a Citrus Bowl win over a 9-4 Auburn?
That could happen, obviously. I doubt Harbaugh is fired of course, but some grumbling might be heard. You can only show recruiting success for a few years if you don't win some hardware.
IMHO the crucial year for Harbaugh is 2018, not 2017. He came in to a relatively veteran team and he got them to play like veterans. Then they lost damn near EVERYONE after 2016. Everyone's discounting Michigan this year because it's such a young team. No matter how talented they are, they're not seasoned vets. And Michigan hasn't had enough time of "elite" recruiting that you'd immediately call them a "reload, not rebuild" team.
So if Michigan rolls off another 10 wins this year, people are going to be lauding Harbaugh. But if they only go 8-4 in the regular season, I don't think he's on a hot seat just yet.
2018 it all needs to come together and be in the hunt for CFP. Anything less given Harbaugh's salary, reputation, and recruiting success.
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This is especially true of helmets and near-helmets who have their toughest game at the end of the season each year. UM will never have a September loss to OSU to blame for being out of the hunt early in a season. With one of your (OSU in the same boat) potential losses being game 12, you should be "in it" deeper into the season.
Just a little thing to keep in mind.
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Chip did have Knight's money, but he didn't have Big Ten money. And it's not like Eugene is a cultural mecca. 165K people live there. Lincoln as 275K.
not sure Chip could do it. but maybe... really not sure Chip will ever get the chance
I am sure that someone can do it. Just needs to be the right guy. It's not impossible.
and I am sure that the program will keep looking for that "right" coach until they have him in Lincoln
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Where will they be when Harbaugh goes back to the NFL?
where would any program be when they lose an amazing coach? Not in a good spot. Take a look at USC once they lost Pete Carroll. DUH. Ohio State has lucked out replacing a legend in Tressel with an even better coach in Urban Meyer. That does NOT happen. Like ever. In this sport- it's all about the coach. Period.
I have my doubts Harbaugh is going back to the NFL any time soon. He's got it made in Ann Arbor. He's very comfortable. It's home. Also, I think the experience with the 49ers left a bitter taste in his mouth. He's only going back if he's given complete control and gets one of the highest paying contracts in the sport and he'll only go work for an owner that is hands off and knows what they are doing. Which immediately crosses everyone's wet dream of him going to Indianapolis off the list. He ain't going to go work for that Jerry Jones wannabe drug addict Jim Irsay.
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I'd rather Chip was hired three years ago than Riley, but Riley is the coach and I'll support him until he proves he can't win the Big Ten.
Hopefully his team improves in it's 3rd season with a QB that can throw the ball and a real defensive coordinator
2018 is the make or break season for Riley in my opinion. If Riley can't win 10 or 11 games and the West tile in 2018 I'll think he's no better than Pelini and it will be time to find a better coach.
Riley does seem to be recruiting better than Bo. We shall see if that helps him be successful.
Chip won't be available after 2018. Someone is going to land him. Tennessee or Auburn or LSU would be my guess. I don't see the Butch Jones experiment lasting past next season in Tennessee, the Gus Bus hype seems to be flaming out at Auburn, and Coach O- yeah LSU might as well have a hired Bobby Boucher to coach them- that's not lasting very long if you ask me. That's why if I'm Nebraska, I'm moving on Chip Kelly right now.
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Chip Kelly at an LSU would be sick. Him at any school with crazy default talent wouldn't be fair.
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Some coaches around the country are looking at this year to define (further) whether they are great coaches or good coaches or just mediocre coaches. One is at Tennessee, which lost a lot of personnel. Another is at Michigan, which still has some horses obviously, but is facing an almost do or die situation in terms of winning a tough Big Ten division and conference.
What if Michigan indeed has a fine team but ends up 10-3 with a Citrus Bowl win over a 9-4 Auburn?
That could happen, obviously. I doubt Harbaugh is fired of course, but some grumbling might be heard. You can only show recruiting success for a few years if you don't win some hardware.
UGA fired a coach that whose last two seasons included 10 wins each and recruited well.
Expectations of course can lead to disappointment.
I wonder how Arky fans think of Bielma these days if they have a 7-6 kind of season.
USC is another team supposed to be there and might not be. And then Notre Dame is facing a year that is almost a "must win" kind of deal coming off a 4-8 campaign and a tough slate. What if they end up 8-5 or even 9-4?
yeah, no. don't see it.
UGA fired Richt because he was there for FIFTEEN years and never broke through. Harbaugh is only going on year 3. He took over a program that was in the wilderness for a decade and literally had no QB. He had to get a Kirk Ferentz reject to be his QB year 1 and he had to work minor miracles with Wilton Speight in year 2. It's not like Meyer who stepped right into a situation where the perfect guy for his system- Braxton Miller was there waiting for him- and so was Cardale Jones- the QB who eventually won that National Title.
2017 was never "the year" for Michigan. It was always about 2018 and beyond.
The schedule sets up nicely for them to go about 10-3, maybe even 11-2 if they catch some breaks. There is literally no pressure there. The guy is still playing with house money.
This Michigan team is very young, but it's extremely talented. There is more talent on this roster than they have had in like a decade. The frosh WR's Oliver Martin, Tarik Black, Nico Collins, and Donovan Peoples-Jones have all been making noise in camp. They have more explosive athletes on offense than they have had in a long time. Eddie McDoom, Chris Evans, Kekoa Crawford- those were guys who got some time last year and showed flashes. They are explosive athletes. Been a long time since Michigan has had a roster full of guys like that on offense. This is a very young team- but they are oozing with talent.
2018 was always going to be his put up or shut up year. He won't feel any pressure going forward until then. 2018 sets up very nicely. Most of the defense will be back and have experience under Don Brown, QB Speight will be a Senior, and all the WR's and young OL will have a year or two of experience. If anything he's only far exceeded expectations thus far.
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Chip Kelly at an LSU would be sick. Him at any school with crazy default talent wouldn't be fair.
You really think he's that good? sorry, I really don't.
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Chip Kelly at an LSU would be sick. Him at any school with crazy default talent wouldn't be fair.
he'd have to keep Dave Arranda around, but yeah I really think him at LSU would be something crazy to see. He'd give Saban fits with the kind of talent that LSU always has at the skill positions. LSU's achilles heel has been QB play. You know that will be A+ with Chip Kelly. Imagine a guy like Fournette in a run first offense with a legit real life QB. Would have been video game type numbers. Hell Guice is going to replace Fournette and he was a 5* RB and is an absolute STUD. He'll probably be a 1st round pick when he comes out too. Imagine had the two of them been together in a Chip Kelly offense. Would have been absolutely nutty. Very few teams ever have two RB's that good playing together at the same time.
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The advantages Michigan has today over Nebraska have always been the advantages Michigan has had over Nebraska. Nothing has changed in the last 15 years except for coaching staffs.
Is it tougher to win in Lincoln than AA, yes. Does Mich have more money than Nebraska? yes. That has always been true... The reality is if UNL finds a great coach and gets over this idea that it has to be a TO guy or it has to be opposite of a TO guy and just finds the best coach available (and now with the full BIG money, UNL has the cash to do much more..), then they will be fine. Hire a mid major coach and you get mid major results.
UNL invests a lot into football and so do it's fans. Maybe too much. I worry about this cycle never ending (due to the fans) and that is why UNL won't be a helmet school. But it won't be due to "new" changes in the CF landscape. They are not new.
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You really think he's that good? sorry, I really don't.
College? Absolutely. Pros? He's a terrible fit. Way too old school disciplinarian. Way too tied to his system. NFL it's all about the players. More specifically the QB. College it's all about the coach.
46-7. At Oregon. He that good.
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You really think he's that good? sorry, I really don't.
What makes LSU good today is not what Chip does..
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Chip would not win in Lincoln like he did at Oregon. Take a 500 mile radius around Lincoln and does that area raise kids who fit into chips scheme?
Ironically, Riley's system fits the kids better than Bo's... Bo didn't leverage a FB and his OC said the TE position was out dated. Riley actually likes the FB, TE's who can block and H-Backs. The "blue collar roles" fit a lot of kids in that region. And the move to the 3-4 also fits the kids. Way more 3 techs than 1 or 2 techs in rural America.
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The advantages Michigan has today over Nebraska have always been the advantages Michigan has had over Nebraska. Nothing has changed in the last 15 years except for coaching staffs.
Is it tougher to win in Lincoln than AA, yes. Does Mich have more money than Nebraska? yes. That has always been true... The reality is if UNL finds a great coach and gets over this idea that it has to be a TO guy or it has to be opposite of a TO guy and just finds the best coach available (and now with the full BIG money, UNL has the cash to do much more..), then they will be fine. Hire a mid major coach and you get mid major results.
UNL invests a lot into football and so do it's fans. Maybe too much. I worry about this cycle never ending (due to the fans) and that is why UNL won't be a helmet school. But it won't be due to "new" changes in the CF landscape. They are not new.
well said.
Michigan went through this hell for a decade after Lloyd Carr retired.
They thought they had to go "21st century" and the complete opposite of Lloyd Carr's conservative style so they hired the originator of the spread option- RichRod. Ended in disaster.
Then they thought oh we have to go get a "Michigan Man" someone who understands Michigan. So they hired Brady Hoke. Ended in disaster.
This last go round- they just went out and got the best guy available period. And so far it's been working out pretty good.
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Chip would not win in Lincoln like he did at Oregon. Take a 500 mile radius around Lincoln and does that area raise kids who fit into chips scheme?
Ironically, Riley's system fits the kids better than Bo's... Bo didn't leverage a FB and his OC said the TE position was out dated. Riley actually likes the FB, TE's who can block and H-Backs. The "blue collar roles" fit a lot of kids in that region. And the move to the 3-4 also fits the kids. Way more 3 techs than 1 or 2 techs in rural America.
Yeah, I don't buy that. How about a 500 mile radius from Eugene, Oregon? Not sure there's really a ton of talent up that neck of the woods either. Definitely more than Lincoln, NE, but c'mon. Even when Nebraska was NEBRASKA under Osbourne- they recruited nationally. Lots of kids from California, Florida, Texas, all over. Nebraska is always going to have to recruit nationally to compete. Chip is one of the few coaches who can go into any home anywhere in America and have a shot at landing a kid. Especially if he plays QB, RB, or WR. Because he can tell that kid I can make you star and put you in the NFL and they know it's true.
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College? Absolutely. Pros? He's a terrible fit. Way too old school disciplinarian. Way too tied to his system. NFL it's all about the players. More specifically the QB. College it's all about the coach.
46-7. At Oregon. He that good.
His only real competition in the conference while he was there was Stanford. Every other team was down (except USC for one year, which he lost). Things would be different now.
At least his "show cause" penalty is expired now. So there's that.
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Riley's last 2 off-seasons tell me he didn't appreciate the pressure to win in Lincoln. That first year they refused to go after a JUCO QB, OT, DT, or any position to speed up the transition. While commendable that he wanted to work with the guys on the team, it also suggest a belief that he had time to transform. He didn't. Firing good friends speaks to an urgency. He has a young team this year and if they falter, it will be tough for him in Lincoln. If they do reasonably well, he will be ok.
I'm of the opinion Riley was brought to Lincoln to win a NC.. he was brought to fix a program. I could be wrong, but he's spent a lot of time and energy fixing recruiting, changing the image and setting up back office roles/departments that were missing/under funded under Bo. Heck, Bo wouldn't even use Huddle and the UNL alumni were giving it to him for free.
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Yeah, I don't buy that. How about a 500 mile radius from Eugene, Oregon? Not sure there's really a ton of talent up that neck of the woods either. Definitely more than Lincoln, NE, but c'mon. Even when Nebraska was NEBRASKA under Osbourne- they recruited nationally. Lots of kids from California, Florida, Texas, all over. Nebraska is always going to have to recruit nationally to compete. Chip is one of the few coaches who can go into any home anywhere in America and have a shot at landing a kid. Especially if he plays QB, RB, or WR. Because he can tell that kid I can make you star and put you in the NFL and they know it's true.
when has UNL not recruited nationally? In fact, UNL has always recruited California, Florida, and Texas as long as I can remember. But you still have a regional bias to your roster. That won't change.
Oregon grabbed a lot of undersized kids from California. Maybe it was 600 miles away, but they were still west coast and they had the speed for his offense.
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not to mention, if a large portion of UNL fans think Riley's offense is soft, they'd lose it over chips. Want to piss off a UNL fan: Fail on a 3rd and 1 running the ball.
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not to mention, if a large portion of UNL fans think Riley's offense is soft, they'd lose it over chips. Want to piss off a UNL fan: Fail on a 3rd and 1 running the ball.
Boy Howdy, that even riled them when Osborne's run call failed in that situation
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Riley's last 2 off-seasons tell me he didn't appreciate the pressure to win in Lincoln. That first year they refused to go after a JUCO QB, OT, DT, or any position to speed up the transition. While commendable that he wanted to work with the guys on the team, it also suggest a belief that he had time to transform. He didn't. Firing good friends speaks to an urgency. He has a young team this year and if they falter, it will be tough for him in Lincoln. If they do reasonably well, he will be ok.
I'm not sure how this was lost on Eichorst and/or Riley
Osborne obviously understood and hired Bo to fix the defense immediately and get to 9 wins that season.
Eichorst and Riley know it today and are very motivated. I hope it shows in wins and losses this season. Diaco needs to fix the defense. The offense needs to be fixed by the improved QB play. We shall see.
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I think with the perception of the "greatness of Nebraska fans" comes an assumption they don't eat their own.. that is not true at all. Unless you've been part of UNL football, I don't think you understand that
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Riley's last 2 off-seasons tell me he didn't appreciate the pressure to win in Lincoln. That first year they refused to go after a JUCO QB, OT, DT, or any position to speed up the transition. While commendable that he wanted to work with the guys on the team, it also suggest a belief that he had time to transform. He didn't. Firing good friends speaks to an urgency. He has a young team this year and if they falter, it will be tough for him in Lincoln. If they do reasonably well, he will be ok.
To be honest, this is something that Jeff Brohm at Purdue understands immediately and I like it but I also feel a bit bad about it... We're seeing roster turnover, transfers, etc that I've never seen at Purdue. It's one thing to say that these guys departing the program are doing it of their own volition, but I'm not sure I buy that. I think Brohm has basically said to some of them "we have no use for you and you're not going to see the field; it's better if you transfer." And right now we're projected 3 scholarships over the limit next year, so there are probably more coming.
I don't like that. I don't like seeing players basically kicked to the curb. I know it's probably necessary to get results. But I don't like it.
Maybe Riley is just "too nice" for that...
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I think with the perception of the "greatness of Nebraska fans" comes an assumption they don't eat their own.. that is not true at all. Unless you've been part of UNL football, I don't think you understand that
Indeed. The ultimate fish bowl team in any sport. I've witnessed few markets that show similar characteristics.
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I could almost, almost buy the Nebraska is sitting better than M*ch, but they are not.
Adding the always loved transitive property:
M*ch's 2 3rd place finishes have come against elite helmet OSU performing at helmet level, and the B1G Champion.
Nebraska has lost to non-helmets in the west and the B1G West Representatives who then go on to lose the title. The title lose makes the west making them seem a step lower, making Nebraska seem a step lower.
Also Firing a guy who gets 9 wins with a guy who gets 6 wins doesn't scream of striving for excellence. It says we got rid of a loud mouth with a nice guy.
You could also argue that Nebraska being in the easier division increases their chances of surpassing Michigan. They have an easier path to the Big Ten Ccg.
It doesn't help that OSU is their fixed crossover, but Wisconsin has Michigan and Iowa has Penn St. So that's not a huge disadvantage within their division.
All they have to do is out-Wisconsin Wisconsin, while Michigan has to beat out OSU, Penn St and Sparty in throw out the records games.
If Nebraska can get to the point where they routinely claw their way to the top of the West, then anything can happen in the Big Ten Championship Game.
Win a few of those bad boys and badda bing, badda boom. They're ahead of Michigan.
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It doesn't help that OSU is their fixed crossover, but Wisconsin has Michigan and Iowa has Penn St. So that's not a huge disadvantage within their division.
Apologies for my ignorance. What is a fixed crossover?
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It started last season and gores for a total of 6 years.
UW has Michigan 5 more years.
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Apologies for my ignorance. What is a fixed crossover?
Yes, with the new 9 game schedule every team has a fixed crossover game. Which means that there is one team in the opposite division that they play every year, while they rotate the other six teams; playing each once at home and once on the road over a six year cycle.
The fixed crossovers are
Indiana-Purdue
OSU-Nebraska
Michigan-Wisconsin
Penn St-Iowa
Michigan St-Illinois
Maryland-Minnesota
Rutgers-Northwestern
I believe they said that they would reevaluate it after every six year cycle.
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They were kinda forced to lock Wisconsin and Michigan. The two hadn't played since 2010 before last season, and this season will mark the first since 2009 that Michigan will visit Madison.
King Barry even approached the UM brass about considering a "non-conference" series before this 9 game schedule and lock happened. There were talks.
'Bout damn time.
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Basically it's an unnecessary mechanism that exists solely to protect the Bucket game.
I suppose it also makes scheduling take about 2 seconds rather than having to put any work into it.
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It also gives OSU the recruiting advantage of being the only team in the Big Ten that gets to play every single one of the Conference's helmet teams every year.
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OSU's recruiting advantage is Urban Meyer.
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Here I thought it was the whole dotting the 'i' thing.
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There are a plethora of recruiting advantages.
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OSU is the only P5 school in a sizeable state with very good HS football emphasis.
When the Catholic HSs here stopped feeding ND their top players, OSU benefited. Obviously, Urban can recruit nationally as well.
OSU had an insane class last season and this year looks to be perhaps better.
Folks talk about how UGA needs to lock down the state, but FSU and Clemson and Auburn are right around the corner and have good arguments for top players.
OSU has Indiana, Kentucky, Marshall, Pitt, Louisville, and Michigan State next door.
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There are a plethora of recruiting advantages.
Seems like a lot of those "advantages" have been cleaned up these days.
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Yes, with the new 9 game schedule every team has a fixed crossover game. Which means that there is one team in the opposite division that they play every year, while they rotate the other six teams; playing each once at home and once on the road over a six year cycle.
The fixed crossovers are
Indiana-Purdue
OSU-Nebraska
Michigan-Wisconsin
Penn St-Iowa
Michigan St-Illinois
Maryland-Minnesota
Rutgers-Northwestern
I believe they said that they would reevaluate it after every six year cycle.
this is an area the BIG messed up... PSU and UNL should be the crossovers due to their history.
But then again, I'd move MSU to the west and create a crossover weekend in Sept where MSU/Mich play, OSU/Wisky and UNL/PSU... not sure of the rest as I'm a little ignorant to any historical significance of potential matchup's..
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Basically it's an unnecessary mechanism that exists solely to protect the Bucket game.
Which I never understood... Granted, I absolutely wanted to protect the bucket game. But it was really the only East/West natural rivalry after they created the divisions.
And neither team is ever going to be "expected" to be challenging for their division. While perhaps they didn't want to have a carve-out ONLY for 2 specific teams, it's not like it would have impacted the conference championship race in any appreciable manner to let the little kids have exclusive access to the little kids' table...
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Indeed. The ultimate fish bowl team in any sport. I've witnessed few markets that show similar characteristics.
agree. I have yet to see or experience it either. Michigan actually has many similarities in the fact that many of their fan base believed a Michigan coach had to be part of the Bo legacy or coaching family. If JH stayed in the NFL, I think you'd find a much more divided fanbase.
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OSU is the only P5 school in a sizeable state with very good HS football emphasis.
When the Catholic HSs here stopped feeding ND their top players, OSU benefited. Obviously, Urban can recruit nationally as well.
OSU had an insane class last season and this year looks to be perhaps better.
Folks talk about how UGA needs to lock down the state, but FSU and Clemson and Auburn are right around the corner and have good arguments for top players.
OSU has Indiana, Kentucky, Marshall, Pitt, Louisville, and Michigan State next door.
That's sort of convenient cherry-picking by ignoring Michigan, ND, PSU and WVU
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Which I never understood... Granted, I absolutely wanted to protect the bucket game. But it was really the only East/West natural rivalry after they created the divisions.
And neither team is ever going to be "expected" to be challenging for their division. While perhaps they didn't want to have a carve-out ONLY for 2 specific teams, it's not like it would have impacted the conference championship race in any appreciable manner to let the little kids have exclusive access to the little kids' table...
I think it would mess up scheduling balance. At least this way they can say you play every crossover team twice (H-A) every six years, except for your permanent crossover rival. Then, the only gripe is in the inbalance in crossover rivals. Otherwise they'd open themselves up to accusations of schedule imbalance because it's tough to get a rotation down otherwise.
Basically, any game they wanted to "protect" should have been put in the same division. The problem is how to do that. The obvious solution would have been to put Rutgers or Maryland in the West and move Purdue to the East as far as game protection goes, because sorry "Maryland-Rutgers" isn't a thing in the Big Ten, but simply from a distance standpoint it doesn't work because those are the two easternmost teams.
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The fixed crossovers are
Indiana-Purdue
OSU-Nebraska
Michigan-Wisconsin
Penn St-Iowa
Michigan St-Illinois
Maryland-Minnesota
Rutgers-Northwestern
I believe they said that they would reevaluate it after every six year cycle.
Query, how these cross-overs were decided. I cannot see a natural or traditional rivalry in any of these games.
You could argue Iowa-PSU on grounds that Iowa's forever coach was raised in part in Pennsylvania. And, Iowa developed a series of games with PSU prior to PSU joining the Big Ten, and who knows, but Paterno may have had his eye on joining the Big Ten back in the 1970s when PSU was scheduling Big Ten teams. But Iowa-PSU is probably more a rivalry for Iowa's coach than it is for the fan bases. I would elevate the Iowa-Michigan, and Iowa Michigan St series, over the Iowa-PSU series in terms of meaningfulness at least to Iowa fans.
I know of no argument to consider the other fixed cross-overs as rivals. I would guess the average Illinois fan would regard Ohio State to be more of a rival than Michigan St.
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after removing the Indiana teams, they appear to have ranked the remaining teams in each division by helmitiness.
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The Wisconsin AD (and Michigan AD) "forced" the lock with Wisconsin/Michigan because it had been so long since the two (charter members) played. The rest kinda fell into place, by helmet, it would appear.
Wisconsin got screwed (took one for the team) in the last alignment by going East and losing its annual game with Iowa. King Barry knew Big Jim owed him one.
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I'm fine with it but it's still kind of surprising given Michigan's trophy game with the Gophers.
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They'd have to build an entire division around the Gopher trophy games, in order to keep all of those bad boys on the annual.
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I hear they have a really nice trophy case in Minnie.
I don't think they ever show it to recruits though. :)
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Did I see where PJ put in the cup of a carpenter in a trophy case this summer?
See you boys in a couple weeks. Going fishing in Canada. No internets.
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That's sort of convenient cherry-picking by ignoring Michigan, ND, PSU and WVU
under Tressel and Meyer for like 20 years- how many kids has Michigan/ND/PSU gotten from Ohio that Ohio State really wanted? Not very many. It's been a whole lot of slim pickens lately.
I feel like while the state of Georgia produces A TON of talent, the kids there don't necessarily grow up die hard Georgia fans like 90% of the kids in Ohio grow up die hard Buckeyes. The top Georgia kids go anywhere. The top Ohio kids? 99% of the time they are going to Ohio State if Ohio State wants them.
That's the big difference between the two programs. If Georgia could lock down the state the way Ohio State does- Georgia would be a juggernaut. They can't though. And I don't think they ever will be able too. It's just a different dynamic. The pressure for kids to stay home just isn't as great. I remember Chris Spielman saying he was about to commit to Bo Schembechler and Michigan and his father called him a traitor and told him nah uh buddy- you're going to Ohio State. I think Buckeye is bred into these kids at a young age in a way that really isn't in any other state.
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Have a great trip MH. Feel free to stop by on your way to Indy and unload some walleye!!
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I think with the perception of the "greatness of Nebraska fans" comes an assumption they don't eat their own.. that is not true at all. Unless you've been part of UNL football, I don't think you understand that
Bob Stoops didn't understand it when he visited for the coach's clinic a few years ago
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See you boys in a couple weeks. Going fishing in Canada. No internets.
Atta boy MH