CFB51 College Football Fan Community

The Power Five => Big Ten => Topic started by: OrangeAfroMan on April 17, 2022, 10:18:40 AM

Title: Top 100 RBs of the past 60 years!
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on April 17, 2022, 10:18:40 AM
ESPN strikes again!  Odd title, isn't it?  They should have called it "We don't know where to rank Jim Brown."
.
So we all know ESPN is silly and dumb, but I just wanted to share this - their #1 college RB of all-time and their #20 choice.
Which is which?
RB A:  4,900 yds, 7.8 ypc, 49 TDs
RB B:  3.500 yds, 6.8 ypc, 49 TDs
Both had a 2500+ yd season.
.
Then consider their #11 RB:
RB C:  6,100 yds, 6.7 ypc, 55 TDs
.
They rank RBs by career, but have a one-season wonder a the top of their list.  If you create a list based on who was "best" or whatever, great, do that.  But then don't have Cedric Benson 15 spots ahead of Adrian Peterson, lol.  I know it's not a surprise, but a shitty ranking by some guy at ESPN.  Fun stuff.
Title: Re: Top 100 RBs of the past 60 years!
Post by: FearlessF on April 17, 2022, 10:39:11 AM
sorry, can't simply rank players by the numbers

cause, there are lies, damn lies, and statistics
Title: Re: Top 100 RBs of the past 60 years!
Post by: Cincydawg on April 17, 2022, 10:43:56 AM
cause, there are lies, damn lies, and statistics
Do you know who said this?  Trick question.

As for list, my oh my.  Some folks will really get into an argument over opinions like this.  Obviously a list of top yardage gained is quantitative, and while true is also misleading.  My own list is which player would I like to have in my backfield for an NC game against an elite defense, and my choice would be Barry.

But career?  Not Barry.
Title: Re: Top 100 RBs of the past 60 years!
Post by: FearlessF on April 17, 2022, 10:50:54 AM
career if Barry started 4 seasons???
Title: Re: Top 100 RBs of the past 60 years!
Post by: FearlessF on April 17, 2022, 10:53:47 AM
Not Mark Twain?
Title: Re: Top 100 RBs of the past 60 years!
Post by: Cincydawg on April 17, 2022, 10:54:25 AM
Not Mark Twain?
He wrote it, quoting another person, who may have coined the phrase.  Or not.

The saying 'There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies, and statistics' - meaning and origin. (phrases.org.uk) (https://www.phrases.org.uk/meanings/lies-damned-lies-and-statistics.html)
Title: Re: Top 100 RBs of the past 60 years!
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on April 17, 2022, 11:15:01 AM
sorry, can't simply rank players by the numbers

cause, there are lies, damn lies, and statistics
I'm not advocating that.
I just advocate for consistency.  But it is what it is, lol.
Title: Re: Top 100 RBs of the past 60 years!
Post by: longhorn320 on April 17, 2022, 11:27:02 AM
my number 1 is Jim Brown

my number 2 is Earl Campbell

both of these RBs had remarkable yac stats 

they were not as fast as other top RBs but they got the job done in style

Title: Re: Top 100 RBs of the past 60 years!
Post by: Cincydawg on April 17, 2022, 11:30:39 AM
I do agree that looking at some ESPN ranking can be "interesting" and even perhaps thought provoking.  I think posters here view it for what it's worth, which often is obviously pretty silly.  I didn't click on the link, the overall import of another Internet ranking of "Best College Towns" or "Best BBQ" doesn't help me any.

I glanced over some "Best Places to Retire" lists way back when, maybe a few stuck in memory to check out, mostly the criteria they used were not relevant to me.

I don't think much of Consumer Reports either.
Title: Re: Top 100 RBs of the past 60 years!
Post by: FearlessF on April 17, 2022, 11:42:43 AM
I'm not advocating that.
I just advocate for consistency.  But it is what it is, lol.
consistency in what?  stats?
there's just not going to be much "consistency" in a personal opinion ranking of things

if you rank with pure stats or a computer formula there will be consistency, but then it's only consistent with those few factors.

doesn't take into account for offensive system, offensive line, defensive opponent strength, injuries, offensive playcalling, competition within the same team.  such as playing behind Thurman Thomas
Title: Re: Top 100 RBs of the past 60 years!
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on April 17, 2022, 11:44:59 AM
Yeah, the more I learn through researching for Whoa Nellie, the more I see so many articles/click bait as just lazy.

You can create a great "best of" list for RBs in 3 very easy, distinct ways:
1 - go by the stats, do the work - a kind of informative list, of careers
2 - go by the stats, do the work - a list of peaks (single season)
3 - go by ability level - obviously very subjective, but fun to argue about and no real 'right' answers
.
Everyone seems to want to smash all 3 of these together, and I don't know why.  Each idea is tricky enough in itself.....a sliding scale of volume vs per-carry.....even considering awards, offense styles, etc.  
People trying to combine 1 and 2 above bother me just as much as combining 1 and 2 with 3.  Obviously, I don't give a shit about running style or NFL productivity, but both seem to strongly influence these lists and many people's opinions.  I just find them utterly irrelevant.  
.
None of it matters.
Title: Re: Top 100 RBs of the past 60 years!
Post by: Cincydawg on April 17, 2022, 11:50:42 AM
It can be an off season topic of discussion.  More of interest to me would be "forgotten players who were really good".  We all pretty much know who the top RBs were, with rankings that would vary.  Your ranking would differ from mine, neither are right, neither are wrong.

If I had an important game an one Dawg RB, I think I would favor Nick Chubb.
Title: Re: Top 100 RBs of the past 60 years!
Post by: bayareabadger on April 17, 2022, 11:50:49 AM
ESPN strikes again!  Odd title, isn't it?  They should have called it "We don't know where to rank Jim Brown."
.
So we all know ESPN is silly and dumb, but I just wanted to share this - their #1 college RB of all-time and their #20 choice.
Which is which?
RB A:  4,900 yds, 7.8 ypc, 49 TDs
RB B:  3.500 yds, 6.8 ypc, 49 TDs
Both had a 2500+ yd season.
.
Then consider their #11 RB:
RB C:  6,100 yds, 6.7 ypc, 55 TDs
.
They rank RBs by career, but have a one-season wonder a the top of their list.  If you create a list based on who was "best" or whatever, great, do that.  But then don't have Cedric Benson 15 spots ahead of Adrian Peterson, lol.  I know it's not a surprise, but a shitty ranking by some guy at ESPN.  Fun stuff.

Both A and B were 1-year starters, fun fact.

It’s funny, because this article is giving you exactly what you want. You want very much to be annoyed by ESPN and annoyed by rankings. And this content essentially provides it.

It was written by one of ESPN’s most thoughtful college football guys. He freely admits it was a frivolity. But serious people have this deep thirst to treat this like it MATTERS, and in that sense, his diversion is serving you, the reader.
Title: Re: Top 100 RBs of the past 60 years!
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on April 17, 2022, 11:53:25 AM
consistency in what?  stats?
there's just not going to be much "consistency" in a personal opinion ranking of things

Well like I said, the guy is ranking them, citing their careers, and has Barry Sanders #1.  That in itself is inconsistent.
Why bother posting their career stats if that's not much of an influence on your rankings? lol
He can have Sanders #1, but then don't have Cedric Benson - Mr. Pedestrian, ranked 15 spots higher than Adrian Peterson.  Don't have Archie Griffin 2nd.  Don't have Jonathan Taylor 11th, lol.  
Again, none of it matters, but if I sat the writer down to defend ranking Willis MdGehee over Warrick Dunn, he couldn't.  The sole argument would be peak season (singular), but then he has 2,000 yard single-season rushers ranked down in the 70s and 60s.  
It's silly, that's all.  
.
Even when something doesn't ultimately matter, like these rankings/lists/clickbait, there can stiill be a consistent methodology.
Title: Re: Top 100 RBs of the past 60 years!
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on April 17, 2022, 11:53:52 AM
It can be an off season topic of discussion.  More of interest to me would be "forgotten players who were really good".  We all pretty much know who the top RBs were, with rankings that would vary.  Your ranking would differ from mine, neither are right, neither are wrong.

I love this idea.
Title: Re: Top 100 RBs of the past 60 years!
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on April 17, 2022, 11:57:27 AM
Both A and B were 1-year starters, fun fact.

It’s funny, because this article is giving you exactly what you want. You want very much to be annoyed by ESPN and annoyed by rankings. And this content essentially provides it.

It was written by one of ESPN’s most thoughtful college football guys. He freely admits it was a frivolity. But serious people have this deep thirst to treat this like it MATTERS, and in that sense, his diversion is serving you, the reader.
I've repeatedly said it doesn't matter.  
.
I bet many here would advocate for doing the right thing, even when no one is looking.
So why doesn't that align with this task - you're given a fluff piece job of ranking RBs....shouldn't you still do a good job?  lol
.
Tbh, I'd like more football talk here......there tends to be less unsettling posts when football is the topic.  
Title: Re: Top 100 RBs of the past 60 years!
Post by: bayareabadger on April 17, 2022, 12:08:15 PM
I've repeatedly said it doesn't matter. 
.
I bet many here would advocate for doing the right thing, even when no one is looking.
So why doesn't that align with this task - you're given a fluff piece job of ranking RBs....shouldn't you still do a good job?  lol
.
Tbh, I'd like more football talk here......there tends to be less unsettling posts when football is the topic. 
If you’re repeatedly saying it, it seems to matter to you, in some way. 
Title: Re: Top 100 RBs of the past 60 years!
Post by: FearlessF on April 17, 2022, 12:19:35 PM
Husker's Top 10 Single Season Rushing Leaders

I prefer single season to career when ranking

9. Rex Burkhead (2011)

1,357 yards

(https://cornhuskerswire.usatoday.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/112/2022/04/USATSI_6779046-1.jpg?w=1000)

8. Jammal Lord (2002) QB

1,412 yards

(https://cornhuskerswire.usatoday.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/112/2022/04/39a7d41d9be5da11af9f0014c2589dfb-1.jpg?w=1000)

7. Ken Clark (1988)

1,497 yards

(https://cornhuskerswire.usatoday.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/112/2022/04/USATSI_6770172-1.jpg?w=1000)

6. Ameer Abdullah (2014)

1,611 yards

5. Ameer Abdullah (2013)

1,690 yards

(https://cornhuskerswire.usatoday.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/112/2022/04/cf9744f13acb49b5aed3a461b5cb621d-1.jpg?w=1000)

4. Mike Rozier (1982)

1,807 yards

(https://cornhuskerswire.usatoday.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/112/2022/04/32b795a06d0d4b1c9506bf7b08f670ad-1.jpg?w=1000)

3. Lawrence Phillips (1994)

1,826 yards
(https://cornhuskerswire.usatoday.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/112/2022/04/USATSI_9322905-1.jpg?w=1000)

2. Ahman Green (1997)

2,083 yards

(https://cornhuskerswire.usatoday.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/112/2022/04/USATSI_4659028-1.jpg?w=1000)

1. Mike Rozier (1983)

2,295 yards

(https://cornhuskerswire.usatoday.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/112/2022/03/USATSI_4035398.jpg?w=692)
Title: Re: Top 100 RBs of the past 60 years!
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on April 17, 2022, 02:09:03 PM
If you’re repeatedly saying it, it seems to matter to you, in some way.
Just putting off some work to do, lol.
Title: Re: Top 100 RBs of the past 60 years!
Post by: Cincydawg on April 17, 2022, 02:31:41 PM
Most Rushing Yards – Season

Title: Re: Top 100 RBs of the past 60 years!
Post by: Cincydawg on April 17, 2022, 02:35:17 PM
The most impressive single season stat of mine is 35, the AVERAGE number of carries HW had per game in 1981.  We probably won't ever see that again.

Most Rushes – Game

Title: Re: Top 100 RBs of the past 60 years!
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on April 17, 2022, 02:44:03 PM
The most impressive single season stat of mine is 35, the AVERAGE number of carries HW had per game in 1981.  We probably won't ever see that again.

Now, the HC would be fired for child abuse.
Title: Re: Top 100 RBs of the past 60 years!
Post by: Cincydawg on April 17, 2022, 02:47:43 PM
Rush attempted per season
 

[th]Rk[/th]
[th]Player[/th]
[th]Att[/th]
[th]Year[/th]
[th]School[/th]
[th]1[/th]
Kevin Smith (https://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/players/kevin-smith-1.html)*4502007 (https://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/years/2007.html)UCF (https://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/schools/central-florida/2007.html)
[th]2[/th]
Marcus Allen (https://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/players/marcus-allen-3.html)*4331981 (https://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/years/1981.html)USC (https://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/schools/southern-california/1981.html)
[th]3[/th]
Lorenzo White (https://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/players/lorenzo-white-1.html)*4191985 (https://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/years/1985.html)Michigan State (https://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/schools/michigan-state/1985.html)
[th]4[/th]
Troy Davis (https://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/players/troy-davis-4.html)4021996 (https://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/years/1996.html)Iowa State (https://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/schools/iowa-state/1996.html)
[th]5[/th]
Derrick Henry (https://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/players/derrick-henry-2.html)*3952015 (https://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/years/2015.html)Alabama (https://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/schools/alabama/2015.html)
[th]6[/th]
Shawn Faulkner (https://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/players/shawn-faulkner-1.html)3941983 (https://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/years/1983.html)Western Michigan (https://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/schools/western-michigan/1983.html)
[th]7[/th]
Javon Ringer (https://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/players/javon-ringer-1.html)*3902008 (https://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/years/2008.html)Michigan State (https://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/schools/michigan-state/2008.html)
[th]8[/th]
Darnell Autry (https://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/players/darnell-autry-1.html)*3871995 (https://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/years/1995.html)Northwestern (https://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/schools/northwestern/1995.html)
[th][/th]
Craig Heyward (https://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/players/craig-heyward-2.html)*3871987 (https://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/years/1987.html)Pitt (https://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/schools/pittsburgh/1987.html)
[th]10[/th]
Herschel Walker (https://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/players/herschel-walker-1.html)3851981 (https://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/years/1981.html)Georgia (https://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/schools/georgia/1981.html)

I know they played more game in 2007, but 450?  Zounds.  Credit to Marcus Allen as well.



Title: Re: Top 100 RBs of the past 60 years!
Post by: FearlessF on April 17, 2022, 02:54:52 PM
385 rushes and didn't break 2,000 yards

Husker I-backs in the 70's, 80's, 90's didn't get many carries, usually done by halftime
Title: Re: Top 100 RBs of the past 60 years!
Post by: Cincydawg on April 17, 2022, 03:00:06 PM
I thought 35 per games was incredible but that same year, Allen had more.  And in 2007 the record was set.  Since then we see more committee RB tandems.
Title: Re: Top 100 RBs of the past 60 years!
Post by: FearlessF on April 17, 2022, 03:30:28 PM
most rushing attempts in a season at Nebraska

286 Lawrence Phillips - 1722 yards - 12 games

most rushing attempt in a game

38 Sexy Rexy Burkhead - 160 yards

most rushing attempts career

813 - Ameer Abdullah

Title: Re: Top 100 RBs of the past 60 years!
Post by: FearlessF on April 17, 2022, 04:15:46 PM
Two Nebraska Cornhuskers were recently named to ESPN’s “Top 100 Running Backs of the Last 60 Years” list. ESPN author Bill Connelly took on the almost impossible task of trying to rank a position that has evolved as much as any over the last six decades. Just look at the impact of the position over that period of time. A running back won the Heisman Trophy every year from 1973 to 1983, and since the year 2000, only three running backs have won the award. It’s a stark reminder of just how much offenses have changed over that period of time.

The first Husker on the list is Ahman Green (No. 55). The running back, or I-back as Nebraska used to call them, played from 1995-97 and ran for 3,880 yards and 42 touchdowns in 33 games for Nebraska. However, his best season was in 1997, when Green ran for 1,877 yards and 22 touchdowns en route to the Cornhusker’s third national championship in four years. He was second in rushing that season behind Ricky Williams (No. 4).


The second Husker on the list is Mike Rozier (No. 7). The New Jersey native played from 1981-83, running for 4,780 yards and 49 touchdowns. His best season was in 1983, when he ran for 2,148 yards and 29 touchdowns en route to the Heisman Trophy.
Title: Re: Top 100 RBs of the past 60 years!
Post by: Cincydawg on April 17, 2022, 07:10:24 PM
I decided a while back to quit trying to rank whatevers, and just celebrate them for their greatness without trying to enumerate.  Was Jim Brown a great football back?  Duh.  I leave it at that.  Barry Sanders was pretty much out there his final year, and in the NFL as well.  Nick Chubb may be my personal favorite.  

Is Fox Bros my favorite BBQ in town so far?  Yup.  Is Far Niente pretty good wine?  Yup, a bit pricey.  Is Dominus 1997 the best wine I think I have ever tasted?  I think so.

I THINK Zamir White, if he's not injured, will do better in the NFL than expected.  He may be a 3rd rounder.

Who from your program is underappreciated?

Title: Re: Top 100 RBs of the past 60 years!
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on April 17, 2022, 09:40:14 PM
I remember Abdullah taking a short little pass and basically refusing to let Nebraska lose to some 1-AA team.  It was tied or they were losing and he breaks like 6 tackles to take it like 60 yards in the final seconds of the game.

Title: Re: Top 100 RBs of the past 60 years!
Post by: MrNubbz on April 17, 2022, 09:59:51 PM
 Nick Chubb may be my personal favorite. 
My favorite he'd be shooting the gaps no faffing around in linear line formations for him
Title: Re: Top 100 RBs of the past 60 years!
Post by: FearlessF on April 17, 2022, 11:20:09 PM
I remember Abdullah taking a short little pass and basically refusing to let Nebraska lose to some 1-AA team.  It was tied or they were losing and he breaks like 6 tackles to take it like 60 yards in the final seconds of the game.


I was at that game
Huskers were beaten, until..........


Ameer to the rescue: Ameer Adbullah turned a short pass from Tommy Armstrong Jr. into a 58-yard touchdown with 20 seconds left to send No. 19 Nebraska to a 31-24 win over McNeese State.

The Huskers were facing a 3rd-and-6 with the game tied. Armstrong hit Abdullah in the flat short of the first-down marker and gave the senior All-America candidate a chance to make a play. And what a play he made.


https://youtu.be/WnGsskkJP28
Title: Re: Top 100 RBs of the past 60 years!
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on April 18, 2022, 01:03:00 AM
Just play like that all game long  :57:
Title: Re: Top 100 RBs of the past 60 years!
Post by: Cincydawg on April 18, 2022, 09:39:52 AM
I would guess the defense for McNeese had been on the field much of the day and was tired.  Obviously, this is a big reason top programs usually beat lesser programs, just depth, aside from a talent gap that usually exists.  This is one reason that Appy State win was so incredible.

That Samford - UF game last year probably started to seal the deal for their coach.
Title: Re: Top 100 RBs of the past 60 years!
Post by: FearlessF on April 18, 2022, 11:57:09 AM
well, that and the fact that Abdullah was pretty good
Title: Re: Top 100 RBs of the past 60 years!
Post by: Cincydawg on April 18, 2022, 01:34:58 PM
well, that and the fact that Abdullah was pretty good
He was indeed, I was reflecting on why he might not have done the pinball thing the entire game.
Title: Re: Top 100 RBs of the past 60 years!
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on April 18, 2022, 02:08:57 PM
Okay, so the Abdullah thing got me thinking.....
.
The big, fat Bill James Historical Abstract book that is pretty well-known all started when James and a friend were debating whether ho-hum Royals catcher Mike MacFarlane was one of the top 100 catchers of all time.
The initial thought was "no way," but when they sat down and actually did the legwork.....there weren't that many good offensive catchers in baseball history.
There's probably 15 or so everyone could name off the top of their heads, maybe 15-20 near as good and just less well-known....and then there's just......meh.  
.
It turned out that despite being unremarkable, MacFarlane was something like the 75th-best catcher of all time.
.
So let's build in some parameters here......P5 programs only, since WWII......do you think Ameer Abdullah was one of the 100 best RBs?  
You could do single-season or career, I don't think it hurts or harms him, either way.
.
Initially, I'm thinking that I doubt it.  
But could I find 100 better RBs?  Maybe P5 progams is too many.....so we say top 200 RBs (P5 programs is around double that of MLB teams).
Ohh, now I'm not so sure.  There's probably 40-50 that are comfortably better off the top of my head, but then....hmmm.......
Title: Re: Top 100 RBs of the past 60 years!
Post by: Cincydawg on April 18, 2022, 02:17:31 PM
Would you go by yards, YAC, carries, some composite, or the eyeball test?

Some RBs have some highlight reel runs but were fairly ordinary much of the rest of the time.
Title: Re: Top 100 RBs of the past 60 years!
Post by: FearlessF on April 18, 2022, 02:31:46 PM
top 100?  no

top 200? maybe
Title: Re: Top 100 RBs of the past 60 years!
Post by: FearlessF on April 18, 2022, 03:13:18 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v7oZnPDqtSw
Title: Re: Top 100 RBs of the past 60 years!
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on April 18, 2022, 03:56:47 PM
Would you go by yards, YAC, carries, some composite, or the eyeball test?

Some RBs have some highlight reel runs but were fairly ordinary much of the rest of the time.
Many RBs are this way.  Known for being a HR-hitter in the football sense, but only average 4-5 ypc overall.  
Believe it or not, OJ Simpson was like that at USC.  
Led the nation in carries both years, led in yards, but nowhere near the top 10 in yards per carry.  And I know it's harder to do that the more carries you have (despite some ODD dissention from some of you, but it's a statistical fact), but still.  All you ever hear about is how fast he was and his long TD runs....career 5.1 ypc average is pretty meh.  
.
Herschel Walker could be in this category.
Darren McFadden (especially considering what Felix Jones did behind him).
.
You look at Michael Hart or Cedric Benson and understand why their ypc averages are pedestrian...they weren't fast or elusive, but they got the tough yards.  But if you sit there and look at it, how is Darren McFadden behind pudgy little Shonn Greene of Iowa in ypc?  
.
Oregon's LaMichael James and Bama's Trent Richardson basically had identical seasons in consecutive years as Doak Walker winners...but could they have looked or ran more different?  
.
Given football's 10 yards for  first down, you can keep your breakaway guys with the mediocre averages, because they aren't moving the chains.  They're not helping with time of possession, either.  They get the highlight, but as long as football is a 10-yard fight, I'll take the slow guy who keeps the punter on the sideline.
Title: Re: Top 100 RBs of the past 60 years!
Post by: FearlessF on April 18, 2022, 05:01:39 PM
but, the breakaway guy gets in the endzone
Title: Re: Top 100 RBs of the past 60 years!
Post by: Cincydawg on April 18, 2022, 05:52:56 PM
but, the breakaway guy gets in the endzone
Usually, and often on Sports Center.  This is one reason I'd take Nick Chubb over Herschel in a "Big Game".  Some of Nick's best runs were for 5 yards, I know many backs are like that.  If Herschel got past this LBs, he was gone, usually.  The speed was impressive.

The Dawgs have three pretty good RBs coming up this year, one of them might be a breakout player, Daijun Edwards, but he won't be the every down back.

I lean to RBs who make the defense wish they were somewhere else in quarter four.
Title: Re: Top 100 RBs of the past 60 years!
Post by: FearlessF on April 18, 2022, 10:10:48 PM
Earl Campbell made them wish that in the first quarter
Title: Re: Top 100 RBs of the past 60 years!
Post by: MrNubbz on April 19, 2022, 07:10:44 AM
Saw Earl play live at the Old Stadium in C-Town,when he was with the Oilers - he could move a pile,then slip to the outside and open it up
Title: Re: Top 100 RBs of the past 60 years!
Post by: MrNubbz on April 19, 2022, 07:24:34 AM
Michigan had some good backs back in the day that were impressive,Tyrone Wheatley had over 4,000yds rushing.Butch Woolfolk gets overlooked,I believe he was one of the fastes guys in the nation coming out of H.S in '78.He took UM to Bo's 1st 2 bowl wins (i think) he had over 4,000 yds rushing/receiving
Title: Re: Top 100 RBs of the past 60 years!
Post by: Cincydawg on April 19, 2022, 08:28:14 AM
Earl was a fantastic player, no doubt, which is why I prefer just to enjoy them for their performances than trying to rank them using unknown or subjective criteria.  I sometimes quasi-rank RBs who played for UGA because there my biases are somewhat limited.  
Title: Re: Top 100 RBs of the past 60 years!
Post by: 847badgerfan on April 19, 2022, 08:29:58 AM
Melvin Gordon, Montee Ball and James White were in the UW running back room at the same time.

That is an embarrassment of riches right there.
Title: Re: Top 100 RBs of the past 60 years!
Post by: Cincydawg on April 19, 2022, 09:09:43 AM
I think you need that sort of room today, or at least it's very useful to have a 1a and 1b.

Less so for these quick passing offenses obviously, like Miss State and Tenn.  Those fast-paced offenses seem not to make the playoff much.



Title: Re: Top 100 RBs of the past 60 years!
Post by: 847badgerfan on April 19, 2022, 09:12:14 AM
If those three guys were in the room today, I'm guessing at least one of them would transfer.
Title: Re: Top 100 RBs of the past 60 years!
Post by: Cincydawg on April 19, 2022, 09:22:02 AM
It depends on their age, I think, obviously an FR would be more content to stay and wait.  Another factor is longevity, I think, if a back is NFL caliber.  Fewer carries in college could be a good thing if they made the most of their carries.  An elite FR might well stay and get some carries, get more as a soph, and be the guy as a junior and come out with better NFL stock as a result.
Title: Re: Top 100 RBs of the past 60 years!
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on April 19, 2022, 09:14:31 PM
It depends on their age, I think, obviously an FR would be more content to stay and wait.  
Uhhh, you haven't been keeping up with things.  
Title: Re: Top 100 RBs of the past 60 years!
Post by: Mdot21 on April 20, 2022, 11:50:22 PM
have to separate college and pro. 

we talking college career, it's Herschel Walker imo. we talking best single season in college, it's Barry imo. we talking most talented, it's Barry imo. 

we talking pro career, it's Emmitt imo- he's got the chips and all the records. we talking best single season in pros, it's OJ imo. 2,000+ in a 14 game season is unmatched. we talking most talented, it's Barry imo.
Title: Re: Top 100 RBs of the past 60 years!
Post by: Cincydawg on April 21, 2022, 08:47:50 AM
Uhhh, you haven't been keeping up with things. 
A freshman would be MORE content to stay and wait than a sophomore, or junior.  I think that is axiomatic.
Title: Re: Top 100 RBs of the past 60 years!
Post by: Cincydawg on April 21, 2022, 10:57:00 AM
I do wonder which RBs never got a real chance in college, but could have been elite.  One who comes to mind is Terell Davis.  He was somewhat hampered by injuries, and a lot hampered by Coach Ray Goff who didn't like him apparently.

Sixth round draft pick.

Title: Re: Top 100 RBs of the past 60 years!
Post by: MrNubbz on April 21, 2022, 01:44:59 PM
Damn in'92 with the Dawgs he had 388 yds but a 7.3 ypc.Dunno what happened after that,Injury or Dawghouse?
Title: Re: Top 100 RBs of the past 60 years!
Post by: Cincydawg on April 21, 2022, 03:54:21 PM
Both of those, Ray Goff was the coach and apparently didn't like him.  I remember thinking he looked really good at the time.

And Garrison Hearst was on that team, Eric Zier was QB.  They lost by 3 to Florida and 2 to Tennessee.  That was a good team.


[th]Player[/th]
[th]Pos[/th]
[th]Summary[/th]
Garrison Hearst*RB256 Att, 1710 Yds, 6.7 Avg
Mack Strong*RB68 Att, 372 Yds, 5.5 Avg
Terrell DavisRB60 Att, 430 Yds, 7.2 Avg
Frank HarveyRB50 Att, 317 Yds, 6.3 Avg



Title: Re: Top 100 RBs of the past 60 years!
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on April 21, 2022, 07:12:53 PM
Those yards per carry averages say "good OL" to me.  
Title: Re: Top 100 RBs of the past 60 years!
Post by: FearlessF on April 21, 2022, 07:57:00 PM
Garrison Hearst* was no slouch

probably a bit quicker and faster than Terrell

OAM would tell you that Terrell's average would have suffered if given the 250 carries
Title: Re: Top 100 RBs of the past 60 years!
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on April 21, 2022, 11:09:11 PM
So would every statistician on the planet...
Title: Re: Top 100 RBs of the past 60 years!
Post by: MrNubbz on April 22, 2022, 07:39:47 AM
And every teamate would tell you & your statistician friends you're gamers.So he'd suck at 6.3 or 5.3 or 4.3 YPC ? Were those numbers misleading once in the Sunday League?He never broke a tackle?never juked a DB? Never followed a block to perfection?(something Nick Chubb does phenomenally)
His 1st 3 seasons in The League
4.7 YPC - 1117 yds
4.6 YPC - 1538 yds
4.7 YPC - 1750 yds
Season 4
5.1 YPC - 2008 yds
Pro Bowl every year except as a rookie.......then the knees
Title: Re: Top 100 RBs of the past 60 years!
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on April 24, 2022, 08:36:49 PM
And every teamate would tell you & your statistician friends you're gamers.So he'd suck at 6.3 or 5.3 or 4.3 YPC ? Were those numbers misleading once in the Sunday League?He never broke a tackle?never juked a DB? Never followed a block to perfection?(something Nick Chubb does phenomenally)
His 1st 3 seasons in The League
4.7 YPC - 1117 yds
4.6 YPC - 1538 yds
4.7 YPC - 1750 yds
Season 4
5.1 YPC - 2008 yds
Pro Bowl every year except as a rookie.......then the knees

You should find the space bar.
.
Why aren't you listing the changes in personnel each year?  In coaches?  
What you're doing here is sharing something unrelated to the initial point.
I suggested that IF YOU REPLAYED THE SEASON, and gave Davis more carries, his yards per carry average would suffer.  A simple idea with virtually infinite data backing it that involves workload limits, regression to the mean, and others.  I don't think it's on purpose, but several here want to refute it probably because I'm the one posting it.  
Anyway, listing Davis' stats on a different team in a different league over different seasons doesn't absolutely nothing to refute anything I've suggested at all.  It's so unrelated that I'm not even sure there's a fallacy name for it.  
Title: Re: Top 100 RBs of the past 60 years!
Post by: MrNubbz on April 24, 2022, 09:06:23 PM
It's on you - your the one caterwauling to the contrary prove he sucks slappie.....some peoples kids sheesh.Led the Broncos to 2 Super Bowls and all pro 3 of his 4 seasons and he should apologise to a gamer like you

              (https://media1.tenor.com/images/49f1f37a9eae1705b6ced1b14c2b4928/tenor.gif?itemid=4827080)
Title: Re: Top 100 RBs of the past 60 years!
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on April 24, 2022, 09:18:14 PM
Your word use shows that you can't even wrap your head around this.

It's not about anyone sucking.
The high YPC in fewer attempts is only half of it.
I don't believe explaining it out will yield you gaining knowledge, just ignoring it.
Title: Re: Top 100 RBs of the past 60 years!
Post by: MrNubbz on April 24, 2022, 11:06:16 PM
No you had to make your absolute statement that everyone agrees with you,can't give anyone credit. 2 super bowls 3 Allpro seasons in 4 yrs.Better at playing than you at posting.But that's nothing of note just an obvious observation
Title: Re: Top 100 RBs of the past 60 years!
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on April 25, 2022, 03:08:49 AM
You've gotten really weird, really fast.  Why is this suddenly an issue of me not crediting a player for what he did?  WTF?  Take your meds.
Title: Re: Top 100 RBs of the past 60 years!
Post by: MrNubbz on April 25, 2022, 07:26:45 AM
You've gotten really weird, really fast.  Why is this suddenly an issue of me not crediting a player for what he did?  WTF?  Take your meds.
Every statistician would agree with YOU,sure they would - of course.Every....single....one. And we know this is the truth because you have told us so. That doesn't even pass the say it out test - look in the mirror and repeat it.You simply can't help yourself before plunging into your usual lack of tact and today I'm your object of derision . I've shown many of your demented rants to a counselor friend of mine specializing in Personality Disorders.He suspects you may have High Functioning Aspergers Syndrome coupled with wisps of Tourette's, and probable use of Peyote Buttons
Title: Re: Top 100 RBs of the past 60 years!
Post by: Cincydawg on April 25, 2022, 07:44:21 AM
I just thought he was an example of an overlooked very good RB in college.

Maybe this, maybe that.
Title: Re: Top 100 RBs of the past 60 years!
Post by: Kris60 on April 25, 2022, 08:40:56 AM
This thread prompted me to look at some YPC for prominent college backs.  For a guy generally considered among the 5 best ever Herschel’s is sort of pedestrian.
Title: Re: Top 100 RBs of the past 60 years!
Post by: Cincydawg on April 25, 2022, 08:49:17 AM
It is, he had a lot of runs for little yardage, in part because everyone knew he would get the ball 35+ times a game.  Defenses would stack the line and on occasion that led to a breakout.  He's a good example of a back with some spectacular runs mixed in with some/many where not much happened.

He was not great at spotting slim openings, I think, and would at times hesitate in the backfield looking for something, and he who hesitates ...

What he had was unusual power to run over safeties and the like coupled with great speed, and the willingness to carry the ball repeatedly in games.  

Title: Re: Top 100 RBs of the past 60 years!
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on April 25, 2022, 04:33:19 PM
This thread prompted me to look at some YPC for prominent college backs.  For a guy generally considered among the 5 best ever Herschel’s is sort of pedestrian.
Very true.

Next, look at his volume (ie - carries) per season or per game and try to find comps.  There aren't many.  He did the workload of more than 1 normal RB.  Not quite 2, but more than 1.
.
Walker is 18th in career carries.....everyone above him did it in 4 seasons, he in 3.  The next 20 spots below him also did theirs in 4 seasons.
You have to go down to 38th to find the next 3-year guy - Heisman winner Steve Owens, from OU.  He of the 4.3 ypc average for his career.  Walker's is a full yard higher.  
.