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The Power Five => Big XII => Topic started by: Thumper on November 21, 2021, 11:10:05 PM

Title: Week 13
Post by: Thumper on November 21, 2021, 11:10:05 PM
Texas (-2.5) v KSU.  I've picked Texas and been wrong the last 6 times.  I'm going with the road dog KSU.  Last Longhorn game this season.
ISU (-14.5) v TCU.  I'll go with the BiaBs again.
Baylor (-14) v TT.  I'd love to see TT win this but Bears win.
KU v WVU (-14).  No one seems to cover the spread against KU.  This game ends the Hawks season with another loss. WVU goes bowling.
OSU (-3.5) vs OU.  First time in a looong time OU has been the underdog.  OSU is in the CCG, OU needs a win to clinch the other spot.  BOOMER! I'm picking the Sooners to put a good game together.

Title: Re: Week 13
Post by: CWSooner on November 22, 2021, 12:25:44 AM
Kitties
Birds
Bears
'Eers
Sooners
Title: Re: Week 13
Post by: utee94 on November 23, 2021, 11:07:07 AM
oSu doesn't beat OU very often.  This year's no different.

Texas will lose, again.

It's tough to care anymore honestly.  See y'all next year.
Title: Re: Week 13
Post by: Cincydawg on November 24, 2021, 01:36:44 PM
I'd like to see oSu in the CFP, I think, someone different at least.

1.  UGA
2.  OSU or UM
3.  oSu
4.  ND
Title: Re: Week 13
Post by: CWSooner on November 24, 2021, 04:36:01 PM
I'd like to see oSu in the CFP, I think, someone different at least.

1.  UGA
2.  OSU or UM
3.  oSu
4.  ND
Most of the bowl projections I've seen have it this way.
1. UGA
2. TOSU
3. Cincinnati
4. 2-loss Bama
I don't understand the infatuation with a 2-loss Bama.
I have seen one projection that put oSu in the CFP.
Title: Re: Week 13
Post by: Cincydawg on November 24, 2021, 06:13:08 PM
2 loss Bama should be OUT OUT OUT.

Meh.  They have looked pretty mediocre all year.
Title: Re: Week 13
Post by: CWSooner on November 24, 2021, 06:50:29 PM
2 loss Bama should be OUT OUT OUT.

Meh.  They have looked pretty mediocre all year.
Mediocre by Bama standards, anyway.  Great by most other standards.
But not 2-loss CFP-great.
I think that the Committee has been off the beam from the start, with its self-assigned mission to pick the "4 best teams."  That has led those members to minimize early season losses, losses when a key player was out, losses in bad weather, losses to fired-up rivals, losses by acts of God, etc.
Title: Re: Week 13
Post by: Cincydawg on November 25, 2021, 09:03:36 AM
The language is "four best teams FOR THE PLAYOFFS" which I view as different from four best teams.
Title: Re: Week 13
Post by: utee94 on November 25, 2021, 10:47:33 AM
I don't think the language really matters, I don't believe it informs the way the committee makes their decisions.

They change their stated criteria as the wind blows.  What matters one week or year, doesn't matter the next. 
Title: Re: Week 13
Post by: longhorn320 on November 25, 2021, 10:53:19 AM
I actually think the committee does a decent job considering the playoff can only have 4 teams currently

we really need to go to an 8 team playoff and take the pressure off the committee
Title: Re: Week 13
Post by: CWSooner on November 25, 2021, 11:20:09 AM
I'd rather go back to 2 than "progress" to 8.

I was against going to 4 from the start because I knew that it was just a stand-in for going to 8.  Then 12.  Then 16.

People who like playoffs, there's a league for you--the NFL!

Go back to the BCS.  Better yet, go back to bowls and polls.
Title: Re: Week 13
Post by: Cincydawg on November 25, 2021, 01:03:57 PM
If you try and choose the four best teams, period, there should be zero extra emphasis on winning your conference.  It should not be a factor beyond that you beat an ostensibly good opponent.  A team that looks mediocre early perhaps due to injuries and looks like 1995 Nebraska the rest of the season should be considered strongly even if they are 9-3.  Best team should need no qualification.

The committe changes up fairly often in personnel, so it's not surprising they collectively weight different factors differently.  I think they do a decent job, that fourth slot will always be contentious.
Title: Re: Week 13
Post by: CWSooner on November 25, 2021, 05:24:13 PM
If you try and choose the four best teams, period, there should be zero extra emphasis on winning your conference.  It should not be a factor beyond that you beat an ostensibly good opponent.  A team that looks mediocre early perhaps due to injuries and looks like 1995 Nebraska the rest of the season should be considered strongly even if they are 9-3.  Best team should need no qualification.

The committe changes up fairly often in personnel, so it's not surprising they collectively weight different factors differently.  I think they do a decent job, that fourth slot will always be contentious.
What you say is why I don't like what the Committee does.  By subjectively selecting "the four best teams," it devalues something that ought not to be devalued--winning the conference.
If I were king, yet had to live with a 4-team playoff and a committee selecting the participants, I'd rule that only conference champions can be considered.
Title: Re: Week 13
Post by: longhorn320 on November 25, 2021, 06:26:31 PM
What you say is why I don't like what the Committee does.  By subjectively selecting "the four best teams," it devalues something that ought not to be devalued--winning the conference.
If I were king, yet had to live with a 4-team playoff and a committee selecting the participants, I'd rule that only conference champions can be considered.
I would rule that any head to head play of the four teams the loser cant be selected as one of the four
Title: Re: Week 13
Post by: Cincydawg on November 26, 2021, 10:49:26 AM
I think the CGs are in effect round one of the playoffs, in my mind at least, and any loser should be out from there, perhaps there could be an exception infrequently.

Winning your conference, to me, is not inherently a sign of a good team, by that I mean their performance is, but not specifically winning a conference.  I'd take a 12-1 team at times that did not win the conference over a 12-1 team that did (P5).  I'd go with which I thought was the better team.
Title: Re: Week 13
Post by: longhorn320 on November 26, 2021, 11:34:48 AM
I think the CGs are in effect round one of the playoffs, in my mind at least, and any loser should be out from there, perhaps there could be an exception infrequently.

Winning your conference, to me, is not inherently a sign of a good team, by that I mean their performance is, but not specifically winning a conference.  I'd take a 12-1 team at times that did not win the conference over a 12-1 team that did (P5).  I'd go with which I thought was the better team.
except if these two teams in your example met during the season and if they did only the winner should be considered whether or not they won the conference
Title: Re: Week 13
Post by: Cincydawg on November 26, 2021, 12:18:39 PM
Yup, to me, winning your conference is effectively unimportant as compared with everything else.  I wouldn't give bonus points for it personally.

Now, you probably merit consideration if you are 12-1 in a P5 conference that you won, but I'd say the same if you are 12-1 and didn't.

The exception is if you lose your CG.  Imagine UGA had lost to Clemson and then ran the table in fine style to be 12-1.  Likely should be included, just as Ohio State will be included.  Should a conference title mean anything different?

Or imagine Michigan beat MSU and loses to Ohio State but finishes 11-1 with a strong season, I'd consider them as well.  The conference champ gets a bonus simply for winning a tough last game.
Title: Re: Week 13
Post by: CWSooner on November 26, 2021, 12:49:05 PM
Ever-closer to the NFL model.  The playoffs are everything.
Obviously, millions of people love the NFL model.
But I'm not interested in the NFL or its model.
The Rose Bowl featuring the champions of the Pac-12 and the B1G is great theater.
The Rose Bowl hosting a CFP semifinal game (when OU is not in the CFP) is something less than that.
JMO, obviously.
Title: Re: Week 13
Post by: longhorn320 on November 26, 2021, 03:42:02 PM
Ever-closer to the NFL model.  The playoffs are everything.
Obviously, millions of people love the NFL model.
But I'm not interested in the NFL or its model.
The Rose Bowl featuring the champions of the Pac-12 and the B1G is great theater.
The Rose Bowl hosting a CFP semifinal game (when OU is not in the CFP) is something less than that.
JMO, obviously.
CW every other college sport has a playoff (I think) so why not football

If having a playoff means it copies the NFL so be it

lets decide it on the field not in fans minds
Title: Re: Week 13
Post by: CWSooner on November 26, 2021, 06:49:15 PM
CW every other college sport has a playoff (I think) so why not football

If having a playoff means it copies the NFL so be it

lets decide it on the field not in fans minds
No other college sport is like Div 1 FBS football.  And no other college sport gets the attention that Div 1 FBS football does.  So, to your initial question, my answer is, "So what?  If every other college sport were self-destructing would it be essential that FBS CFB follow suit?"
About settling it on the field, in many cases, it's already been decided on the field.  But then it has to be decided again in a rematch.  And you have even mentioned this as something to be avoided at practically all costs.
And how is selecting the playoff participants by a committee voting in secret better than the way that the BCS did it, or the way the polls and bowls worked?
Let's look at this year.  Does anyone really think that Cincinnati is one of the 4 best teams in all the land?  I ask that because "the four best" is supposedly the goal the Committee is trying to reach.
Cincinnati doesn't measure up, and I don't think anybody really thinks that they do.  They're just the nice Cinderella story this year.
Whether their resume (after their CCG) warrants being ranked in the top 4 is a different issue.  The Committee only uses resume to explain their decisions when it is convenient to do so.
I do not see the Committee as being objectively superior to either the BCS system or the Bowls and Polls system.
And, as I have said before, I say that as a fan of a team that has gotten the benefit of the doubt from the Committee in previous years.
Title: Re: Week 13
Post by: CWSooner on November 26, 2021, 06:54:40 PM
Man--Nebraska finds a way to lose every dadgum week!  Got outscored 19-0 by Iowa in the 4th quarter to lose by 7.  A punt-block returned for a TD and an intentional grounding from the end zone--resulting in a safety--were part of the story.

Did the Texas win today save Sark's job?  Or was it not in jeopardy?  How much does it help the Horns going into 2022?
Title: Re: Week 13
Post by: longhorn320 on November 26, 2021, 08:34:47 PM
No other college sport is like Div 1 FBS football.  And no other college sport gets the attention that Div 1 FBS football does.  So, to your initial question, my answer is, "So what?  If every other college sport were self-destructing would it be essential that FBS CFB follow suit?"
About settling it on the field, in many cases, it's already been decided on the field.  But then it has to be decided again in a rematch.  And you have even mentioned this as something to be avoided at practically all costs.
And how is selecting the playoff participants by a committee voting in secret better than the way that the BCS did it, or the way the polls and bowls worked?
Let's look at this year.  Does anyone really think that Cincinnati is one of the 4 best teams in all the land?  I ask that because "the four best" is supposedly the goal the Committee is trying to reach.
Cincinnati doesn't measure up, and I don't think anybody really thinks that they do.  They're just the nice Cinderella story this year.
Whether their resume (after their CCG) warrants being ranked in the top 4 is a different issue.  The Committee only uses resume to explain their decisions when it is convenient to do so.
I do not see the Committee as being objectively superior to either the BCS system or the Bowls and Polls system.
And, as I have said before, I say that as a fan of a team that has gotten the benefit of the doubt from the Committee in previous years.
you seem to be venting against the way the playoff happens (having a committee) Im not for a committee but its better then nothing

I thought your whole point was having a playoff of any kind is bad am I wrong

If you are just bothered by having a committee instead of a prearranged system for a playoff then say so

In short football is like any other college sport and determining a national champion is in every college football fans nature

this isnt just a car show to show how pretty your car is and brag about it
its a race around a track to decide it once and for all

Title: Re: Week 13
Post by: longhorn320 on November 26, 2021, 08:38:25 PM
Man--Nebraska finds a way to lose every dadgum week!  Got outscored 19-0 by Iowa in the 4th quarter to lose by 7.  A punt-block returned for a TD and an intentional grounding from the end zone--resulting in a safety--were part of the story.

Did the Texas win today save Sark's job?  Or was it not in jeopardy?  How much does it help the Horns going into 2022?
I dont think the win today had any affect of Sark's future

whatever was going to happen at seasons end will still happen

I really dont see him being fired unless there are things we dont know about
He gets another year in my opinion
Title: Re: Week 13
Post by: CWSooner on November 26, 2021, 09:21:13 PM
you seem to be venting against the way the playoff happens (having a committee) Im not for a committee but its better then nothing

I thought your whole point was having a playoff of any kind is bad am I wrong

If you are just bothered by having a committee instead of a prearranged system for a playoff then say so

In short football is like any other college sport and determining a national champion is in every college football fans nature

this isnt just a car show to show how pretty your car is and brag about it
its a race around a track to decide it once and for all
I don't like a playoff in general, because it devalues the regular season.  (Same reason I'm against CCGs on principle.)  I especially don't like the playoff we have with the Committee secretly voting on who gets to participate.  I'd dislike it less if we used the early BCS formula where the computers were allowed to know the score instead of the Committee.
The Committee members hear what the media pundits are saying and what fans on the call-in shows are demanding.  They get caught up in the cool story of the moment, like plucky little Cincinnati (with its tiny enrollment of 46,000 students).
Title: Re: Week 13
Post by: utee94 on November 27, 2021, 01:02:07 AM
I don't think Sarkisian's job was in jeopardy in year 1.

Glad the seniors got to go out with a win.


Title: Re: Week 13
Post by: Cincydawg on November 27, 2021, 08:36:37 AM
I'm OK with whatever they do playoffwise, I'll enjoy it either way.  I don't know what would be perfect, or near perfect, everything has deficiencies.  I just sit back and enjoy, mostly enjoy.  And I know my voice doesn't matter of course.

Someone proposed a playoff involving a variable number of teams depending on the season, I found that entertaining.  Maybe this year we'd have only UGA and OSU if both win out.

Title: Re: Week 13
Post by: CWSooner on November 27, 2021, 11:44:18 AM
So, is nobody going to stick up for poor little Cincinnati?  To tell me that I'm full of it, and that the Bearcats are certainly one of the best four teams in all the land?

Hooky had a scheme for a variable number of teams in a playoff.
Title: Re: Week 13
Post by: longhorn320 on November 27, 2021, 12:02:59 PM
So, is nobody going to stick up for poor little Cincinnati?  To tell me that I'm full of it, and that the Bearcats are certainly one of the best four teams in all the land?

Hooky had a scheme for a variable number of teams in a playoff.
we wouldnt have to stick up for anybody if we did away with the committee and had an eight team playoff
Title: Re: Week 13
Post by: longhorn320 on November 27, 2021, 12:05:44 PM
Houston is going to beat Cinn so its not a concern

and why is Baylor ranked at 8 whats up with that
Title: Re: Week 13
Post by: utee94 on November 27, 2021, 12:53:04 PM
Shiner had a variable playoff scheme as well.

But we all know there's no way it would work in real life, because it would make less money in the years when the number of entrants was limited, and making less money is not acceptable to TPTB.
Title: Re: Week 13
Post by: CWSooner on November 27, 2021, 01:09:47 PM
Shiner had a variable playoff scheme as well.

But we all know there's no way it would work in real life, because it would make less money in the years when the number of entrants was limited, and making less money is not acceptable to TPTB.
And money is the reason for continuing to expand the field.
Title: Re: Week 13
Post by: CWSooner on November 27, 2021, 01:17:01 PM
Houston is going to beat Cinn so its not a concern

and why is Baylor ranked at 8 whats up with that
I hope Houston wins, and I do not like Houston.

But that's not a defense of the Committee having Cincinnati at #4.

I doubt that anyone really thinks that Baylor is among the 8-best teams either.

By its own stated criteria, the Committee doesn't get it right.

This is shaping up as the perfect season for a 2-team system.  Georgia vs. the TOSU-Michigan winner.
Title: Re: Week 13
Post by: utee94 on November 27, 2021, 01:31:25 PM
I hope Houston wins, and I do not like Houston.

But that's not a defense of the Committee having Cincinnati at #4.

I doubt that anyone really thinks that Baylor is among the 8-best teams either.

By its own stated criteria, the Committee doesn't get it right.

This is shaping up as the perfect season for a 2-team system.  Georgia vs. the TOSU-Michigan winner.

tOSU/Michigan have already lost games.  Why do you think they'd deserve it and not a 1-loss OU or oSu?  I don't.  Outside of Georgia, I just see a whole lot of decent but flawed teams.  
Title: Re: Week 13
Post by: CWSooner on November 27, 2021, 11:49:23 PM
If Big Matt were here, I'd offer congratulations for his Pokes' win over OU in Stillwater tonight.

Weird game.  OU's offense scored 0.0 points in the 2nd half.  Pretty disappointing performance from our offensive genius HC/OC/QB coach.

I'm about ready to believe conspiracy theories about the officiating.

Oh, well.  On to the Cheez-It Bowl.
Title: Re: Week 13
Post by: CWSooner on November 27, 2021, 11:50:23 PM
tOSU/Michigan have already lost games.  Why do you think they'd deserve it and not a 1-loss OU or oSu?  I don't.  Outside of Georgia, I just see a whole lot of decent but flawed teams.
I subjectively think that they are a notch better than those others you named.  You don't, and that's OK with me.
Title: Re: Week 13
Post by: utee94 on November 28, 2021, 12:07:42 AM
Condolences to the Sooners around here, and congrats to Mateo Grande.  I really didn't think the pokes would win it.

So it's Baylor vs. oSu.  You know the B12 administrative offices have got to be happy with the way this turned out.
Title: Re: Week 13
Post by: Cincydawg on November 28, 2021, 07:35:35 AM
Michigan has a solid resume now, the lone blemish to a rival in a game they should have won.  Oklahoma State has one as well, I think, one close loss.

This of course presumes they win the CG.  We will always have one loss teams in a four teamer.  Nearly.
Title: Re: Week 13
Post by: utee94 on November 28, 2021, 09:36:03 AM
Don't know what the committee will do, they often manage to surprise.

Right now I'd personally lean heavily toward Georgia, Michigan, and Oklahoma State.  Not sure who I'd put in that 4th spot, probably Cincy.

But as I've stated elsewhere, I wouldn't be at all surprised to see the committee select a 1-loss Notre Dame ahead of a 1-loss conference champ Oklahoma State. 
Title: Re: Week 13
Post by: longhorn320 on November 28, 2021, 09:45:06 AM
There is still too many opportunities for leading teams to lose to really know what the final 4 will be
Title: Re: Week 13
Post by: utee94 on November 28, 2021, 10:10:17 AM
There is still too many opportunities for leading teams to lose to really know what the final 4 will be
For sure.  I'm just speculating based on who I think will win those games.

I think Georgia and Michigan will both win pretty handily.

OkState-Baylor will probably be pretty close but I think the Pokes will ultimately win it.

Notre Dame is done and Cincy only has Houston left, which I expect the Bearcats to win.

So given all that, I'd put Georgia, Michigan, and Oklahoma State in.  I would not put in a 2-loss non-champ Alabama, and it would be tough for me to put in Notre Dame over a Cincy team that beat them.


Title: Re: Week 13
Post by: Thumper on November 28, 2021, 10:19:40 AM
Congrats to Texas, TCU, Baylor, WVU, and OSU.

I said earlier I saw no evidence of biased calls against OU this year.  In the 4th quarter with OU leading, it was obvious the officials were not going to let the Sooners get to the CCG. Still, the Sooners played their best game of the year IMO.

No way detracting from OSU, they played well and have had a great season.
Title: Re: Week 13
Post by: longhorn320 on November 28, 2021, 10:22:42 AM
Congrats to Texas, TCU, Baylor, WVU, and OSU.

I said earlier I saw no evidence of biased calls against OU this year.  In the 4th quarter with OU leading, it was obvious the officials were not going to let the Sooners get to the CCG. Still, the Sooners played their best game of the year IMO.

No way detracting from OSU, they played well and have had a great season.
I didnt see the final qtr but I taped it and will look at it to see what you are talking about
Title: Re: Week 13
Post by: longhorn320 on November 28, 2021, 10:35:29 AM
For sure.  I'm just speculating based on who I think will win those games.

I think Georgia and Michigan will both win pretty handily.

OkState-Baylor will probably be pretty close but I think the Pokes will ultimately win it.

Notre Dame is done and Cincy only has Houston left, which I expect the Bearcats to win.

So given all that, I'd put Georgia, Michigan, and Oklahoma State in.  I would not put in a 2-loss non-champ Alabama, and it would be tough for me to put in Notre Dame over a Cincy team that beat them.



Houston is a much better team then many realize and will give Cincy a game

Everyone assumes Alabama will lose to Georgia but thats why they play the game

Same thing about Baylor and OSU Im not sure the Baylor passing game wont jump up and bite OSU in the butt

I dont see any way Iowa beats Michigan so they probably will

In short the only way ND gets in is if either Cincy or Michigan lose

If Alabama wins it will be interesting to see if a 1 loss Georgia team doesnt get in ahead of ND
Title: Re: Week 13
Post by: Cincydawg on November 28, 2021, 10:48:24 AM
I think UGA is "in" win or lose, maybe a blowout loss changes that.

at Auburn  24-22          34-10
Arky          42-35          37-0
Tenn        42-24            41-17
Florida      31-29            34-7

Scores against common opponents, offefnsive output is similar.
Title: Re: Week 13
Post by: Gigem on November 28, 2021, 11:09:01 AM
Congrats to Texas, TCU, Baylor, WVU, and OSU.

I said earlier I saw no evidence of biased calls against OU this year.  In the 4th quarter with OU leading, it was obvious the officials were not going to let the Sooners get to the CCG. Still, the Sooners played their best game of the year IMO.

No way detracting from OSU, they played well and have had a great season.
So wait, what you really mean is now you know how the rest of the league feels about OU and UT after all these years? 
Title: Re: Week 13
Post by: longhorn320 on November 28, 2021, 11:29:28 AM
I think UGA is "in" win or lose, maybe a blowout loss changes that.


I hope not

If Georgia wants in then they need to win the damn game
Title: Re: Week 13
Post by: FearlessF on November 28, 2021, 11:37:54 AM
not many one loss teams left - Georgia would be one

especially if Baylor and Iowa win
Title: Re: Week 13
Post by: Thumper on November 28, 2021, 01:21:54 PM
So wait, what you really mean is now you know how the rest of the league feels about OU and UT after all these years?
Nope, don't care how the league feels.  Just noting the lopsided officiating in the 4th Q.  OU had plenty of self inflicted problems with a muffed punt at the 2 yard line, et al.  IMO, the season, not this game, showed OU didn't deserve the championship.  I'm looking forward to the bowl game and hope that next season they play better.
Title: Re: Week 13
Post by: FearlessF on November 28, 2021, 02:12:05 PM
I watched the entire game with an eye on officiating favoring OSU

I didn't see it

some poor/questionable calls like always, but nothing to affirm my suspicions of the league torpedoing the Sooners  
Title: Re: Week 13
Post by: Cincydawg on November 28, 2021, 02:31:28 PM
I hope not

If Georgia wants in then they need to win the damn game
I lean to thinking the same way, but the pundits think otherwise.  And pundits can never be wrong.