CFB51 College Football Fan Community
The Power Five => Big XII => Topic started by: CWSooner on October 31, 2021, 08:19:25 PM
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Gary Patterson is out at TCU.
TCU coach Gary Patterson out after 21 seasons; Jerry Kill named interim coach
By Sam Khan Jr. and Bruce Feldman, The Athletic
TCU and coach Gary Patterson have parted ways effective immediately, the school said Sunday. Jerry Kill will serve as interim coach. Patterson informed the team earlier today, according to a source.
Patterson was fired, sources say. This week, athletic director Jeremiah Donati wanted to see what changes Patterson was going to make in the offseason, but didn’t like Patterson's solutions, and the situation went downhill. Donati wanted Patterson to stay on the rest of the season, per sources, but Patterson said he was done now.
Patterson, in his 21st season as Horned Frogs head coach, was the second-longest tenured head coach in FBS. In a statement, Donati said he and chancellor Victor Boschini met with Patterson on Sunday and asked him to coach the remainder of the season and take on a different role in 2022, but Patterson believed it was "in the team and TCU's best interests" to transition out of the position immediately.
The 61-year-old was 181-79 at TCU and 3-5 in 2021. The Horned Frogs have lost three consecutive games by double digits, including a 31-12 loss to Kansas State on Saturday.
TCU won double-digit games 11 times under Patterson, including a 13-0 season in 2010 that ended with a Rose Bowl win and No. 2 ranking in the final AP poll. The Horned Frogs nearly made the College Football Playoff in its first season in 2014, going 12-1 but finishing fifth in the final ranking.
The team reached the Big 12 championship game in 2017, losing to Oklahoma, but hasn’t finished better than fifth in the conference over the past three seasons. TCU hasn’t been ranked in the AP poll since September 2019.
Patterson coached the Horned Frogs in four different conferences: the WAC (for one game as an interim coach in 2000), Conference USA (2001-04), the Mountain West (2005-11) and the Big 12 (2012-present).
TCU unveiled a statue of Patterson outside Amon G. Carter Stadium in 2016.
"The story of Gary Patterson and the rise in the fortunes of the TCU football program over the last 20 years is clearly one of the most remarkable in the history of college football," Donati said in a statement. "We are grateful to Gary and Kelsey Patterson and appreciate everything they have meant to TCU and the Fort Worth community. Under his leadership, TCU has become a nationally recognized brand name in football and in collegiate athletics."
What is Patterson’s legacy at TCU?
Sam Khan Jr., senior college football writer: Football success under Patterson forever changed TCU. The school was left out of the initial formation of the Big 12 following the Southwest Conference’s dissolution in 1995 and in danger of being forever relegated to the college football wilderness. But Patterson turned TCU into a consistent winner and a financial commitment to football followed.
TCU won 10-plus games eight times in Patterson's first 11 years, including a Rose Bowl victory, that paved the way for a Big 12 invitation in 2012. Amon G. Carter Stadium and the team’s football complex are pristine, renovations largely resulting from Patterson’s football success.
How good of a job is TCU?
Khan: Even in a weakened Big 12 minus Oklahoma and Texas, this is a good job. Fort Worth is a great location, it’s in a prime recruiting footprint (the Dallas-Fort Worth Metroplex is one of the most fertile recruiting grounds in the country, plus it’s not terribly far from talent-rich East Texas) and TCU has plenty of financial resources. They paid Patterson handsomely and have deep-pocketed donors who have footed the bill for numerous upgrades.
It might be the most attractive job in the new Big 12.
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Really a shock to me. It looks like it is time for Patterson to move on but I thought he would announce it as his decision. It will be interesting with the Texas Tech job open as well
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It will be interesting to see if Patterson will try to get another HFC gig.
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Maybe Lincoln could beat Saban to the punch and hire him as an analyst.
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This surprises me, I figured he's stay there as long as he wanted.
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Something seems really off. The game at KSU looked like they were just going through the motions. When they asked GP to finish the season and accept another position in the university, he wanted to leave right then. Really looks like something went sour.
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Yeah, perhaps he had a clash with the AD/President about something, or the Big Donors if they have some wanted him gone.
Maybe he was just tired of it all, 21 years of sucking up to high school kids? I couldn't do it.
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I'm guessing politics of some sort
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I’ve heard that he’s a giant douche bag. A Grade asshole is the words I remember. But when you’re winning, all is forgiven.
TCU is a joke anyways. They were let into the Big 12 based on ~10 years of overachieving in No mans land. In the 10 years since they have failed to win at least 9 games 7 out of ten years. The other three years they have done good, winning 11 games twice and 12 games once, the infamous One True Champion year.
The other two 11 win seasons they got beat like a drum bu OU, twice in the last case.
They’re about to find out what it means to wander the desert, they’re only successful because Patterson put them there against weaker competition. The only difference between them and the other G5 schools is that all the other successful G5 schools lost their coach after 2 successful years. It’s happened to UH and SMU multiple times with Sumlin, Herman, etc.
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This will get you fired at any SEC/ACC/B1G name school.
(https://i.imgur.com/eY3M8FD.png)
Which season is the fluke ?
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Vandy would be very happy with those numbers. Very.
He's around .500 with one outlying year to the good.
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This will get you fired at any SEC/ACC/B1G name school.
(https://i.imgur.com/eY3M8FD.png)
Which season is the fluke ?
But TCU's not a "name school" which is why some folks are surprised. And the recent trend looks bad, but for obvious reasons, you omitted his full B12 resume:
(https://i.imgur.com/Dx3MI4i.png)
This more complete data set shows that the program has recent troubles, but that the 11-3 season isn't some one-year anomaly. It's the three 11+ win seasons in 4 years, that are why people still thought he had the potential to do it again. That may or may not have been true, but he'd built up plenty of goodwill with the TCU alums, over the decade.
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No, I did in fact mention those 11 and 12 year wins in my post. I only included the last 5 years because at any other name school that’s all that counts.
It’s been 10 years in the “New and Worse” Big 12 and TCU either has a losing record or right at .500 overall. With no Nebraska or Colorado or A&M and UT during their worst ~ 10 year stretch of the last half century or more.
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Vandy would be very happy with those numbers. Very.
He's around .500 with one outlying year to the good.
Honestly. Vandy could probably do close to that if they played in the Big 12 and could keep any decent HC for more than two seasons.
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so, cut the man before Texas and OU leave so his record doesn't get better and he stays too long???
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No, I did in fact mention those 11 and 12 year wins in my post. I only included the last 5 years because at any other name school that’s all that counts.
It’s been 10 years in the “New and Worse” Big 12 and TCU either has a losing record or right at .500 overall. With no Nebraska or Colorado or A&M and UT during their worst ~ 10 year stretch of the last half century or more.
Why do you keep suggesting TCU should act like a "name school?"
They aren't one.
Which is precisely why folks are surprised.
Who will they get, that will do better?
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the hot shot in San Antone?
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Why do you keep suggesting TCU should act like a "name school?"
They aren't one.
Which is precisely why folks are surprised.
Who will they get, that will do better?
I guess I’m not arguing this point. I’m arguing that TCU was and still is an imposter. They were perceived to be, by some, an up and coming “helmety” program due to their string of success after the SWC and until their B12 debut.
I mean honestly as a program all you can do is win the games you play, and they did. And winning the Rose Bowl is certainly a big deal but they did not have to go through an entire tough season to get there. They only needed to beat the Fresno States and SMU’s of the world and watch everybody else lose to each other.
Look at their record pre and post Big 12. 11+ win seasons left and right, and then after the Big 12 a couple of successful seasons followed by 4-7 win seasons. They’re an imposter, but Patterson got them that far. Now they’re about to find out how tough it really is to be a successful program who struggles to fill a 30,000 seat stadium even when they’re winning.
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You don't like TCU. We get it. Even the cows get it, at this point. :)
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Actually I have a healthy respect for them like the little program that could. I just never thought they deserved their ranking or all the hype generated for going 11-12 wins in the WAC/CUSA space.
Word is several big name programs tried to get Patterson but either TCU paid him a hefty salary or he just really liked it there.
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At one point, either after firing Mack or firing Strong, it was rumored that he he was offered by, and turned down, Texas. I heard that one on the internet, not from any of my actual insiders, but it's certainly possible.
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It will be interesting to see what programs, if any, come after Patterson.
There will probably be a bunch of HFC openings after this season, or sooner than that in some cases.
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Tech is looking. Maybe they hire Patterson and turn around and kick TCU's butt for several years. That would be funny.
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Tech is looking. Maybe they hire Patterson and turn around and kick TCU's butt for several years. That would be funny.
How bout LSU
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How bout LSU
One of the guys on OKC sports radio said yesterday that a contact in Baton Rouge told him that LSU is preparing to offer Lincoln Riley $13 million a year to come coach the Tigers.
Sounds outlandish to me, but these are outlandish times.
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How much does more money motivate these guys in general? If LR is making say a measely $6 million now, would double that change his outlook? Mebbe. Incidentally, I am available and would be much cheaper.
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if Lincoln thinks he can recruit better talent at LSU, he may as well go. Gonna have to compete in the SEC anyway, might as well get the best recruits possible
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Is the ceiling for recruiting at LSU higher than at OU? I don't really think so, but I suppose I could be wrong about that.
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I THINK one can recruit easier and better at LSU versus OU. I don't know if the data are relevant to that question.
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Is the ceiling for recruiting at LSU higher than at OU? I don't really think so, but I suppose I could be wrong about that.
I think so, therefore, you are wrong ;)
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I THINK one can recruit easier and better at LSU versus OU. I don't know if the data are relevant to that question.
Why? OU is a blue blood that gets its pick of Texas talent and can also recruit nationally.
LSU is not a blue blood, and though they have pretty good in-state talent, they also have to fight off the other regional SEC powers for that talent.
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2021 College Football Team Talent Composite (247sports.com) (https://247sports.com/Season/2021-Football/CollegeTeamTalentComposite/)
They are 6 and 5 right now for talent on the team. LSU has the state to itself.
Here are the top nine states for picks in the 2021 NFL Draft (population ranking in the United States in parentheses):
- Florida (3rd), 37
- Texas (2nd), 33
- Georgia (8th), 21
- California (1st), 19
- Louisiana (25th), 13
- North Carolina (9th), 10
- Ohio (7th), 9
- Michigan (10th) and Pennsylvania (5th), 8
2021 NFL Draft: State-by-state look at where all draftees played high school football - MaxPreps (https://www.maxpreps.com/news/aRTzP8IJRUKRz2dCP2swIg/2021-nfl-draft--state-by-state-look-at-where-all-draftees-played-high-school-football.htm)
Oklahoma had three, versus 13.
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LSU doesn't have Lousiana all to itself. Texas regularly cherry picks in that state. There are 5 Louisiana kids on our current 85 man roster. Tons of other schools do as well.
And OU should be viewed more as a Texas school, for the purposes of recruiting. They recruit just as easily in the state as UT or A&M.
As the composite shows, they're only off by one spot. Pretty much proves to me that recruiting to OU is roughly the same as recruiting to LSU. It's certainly not a slam-dunk to be easier.
Also, if you want to talk about draftees, you have to use more than one year. A 5-year average would be far more representative.
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I think it's easier to recruit for LSU than for OU.
LSU is the only P5 school in the state. And the state produces a lot of talent.
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I think it's easier to recruit for LSU than for OU.
LSU is the only P5 school in the state. And the state produces a lot of talent.
Like I said, all kinds of schools play in that sandbox. 6% of UT's roster is from the state of Louisiana.
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FWIW, OU has kids from the following states listed on its current roster.
AZ: 2
CA: 4
CO: 1
DC: 3
FL: 7
GA: 2
IL: 4
KS: 1
MD: 2
MO: 2
NC: 4
NV: 1
OH: 3
OK: 27
OR: 1
TN: 5
TX: 48
VA: 2
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high school recruits in states doesn't matter
state boundaries are crossed - LSU is closer to Mississippi, Alabama, Georgia, and Florida. LSU also borders Texas as does Oklahoma
rivals 2021 ranking - LSU #4, OU #13
rivals 2020 ranking - LSU #4, OU #16
rivals 2019 ranking - LSU #3, OU #5
rivals 2018 ranking - LSU #14, OU #8
rivals 2017 ranking - LSU #8, OU #8
rivals 2016 ranking - LSU #5, OU #16
rivals 2015 ranking - LSU #8, OU #14
rivals 2014 ranking - LSU #2, OU #15
rivals 2013 ranking - LSU #6, OU #15
rivals 2012 ranking - LSU #18, OU #11
rivals 2011 ranking - LSU #6, OU #14
rivals 2010 ranking - LSU #6, OU #7
rivals 2009 ranking - LSU #2, OU #13
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I don't really have a dog in the disagreement.
It has been my general impression that LSU has a more highly ranked recruiting class than OU does in most years.
We've chalked it up to LSU bagmen having bigger bags than ours do! ;)
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well, yer gonna have to upgrade your bagman game
might want to bring Switzer back as a consultant ;)
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I idly wonder how attractive OU might become, over today, being in the SEC, for national recruits. It could enhance their appeal? Get them on the short list?
Dunno.
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well, the downside will be, fewer conference championships and fewer 4-team playoff appearances
not sure how that will affect recruiting
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The SEC won't be the same of course, neccessarily, by then. Folks muse about Saban's retirement and what that might do to Alabama, they could drop to more of a 10-2 team, maybe. Florida might get back, maybe, I don't think Tenn will really get back. Auburn is capable of having good teams every so often, built on the back of one or two prime players in general. LSU might get back, or fade (duh).
UGA will likely continue to have elite recruiting because of location. Arkansas? I saw signs of hope earlier, but maybe they are currently too thin. Other programs face recruiting challenges without shennanigans. Maybe OU replaces Alabama as the power in the west, or Texas.
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UGA will likely continue to have elite recruiting because of location. Arkansas? I saw signs of hope earlier, but maybe they are currently too thin. Other programs face recruiting challenges without shennanigans. Maybe OU replaces Alabama as the power in the west, or Texas.
very likely but, that's what was said about Miami, FSU, and Florida back in the late 80s and 90s when all tree programs were thriving with the glut of talent in Florida
heck, there was a time when Nebraska was on such a roll that folks thought they might perhaps drop back to a couple losses a season after Osborne retired - similar to Saban today
nothing lasts forever
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Florida recruits get split between three major schools in state, and others nearby of course. UGA doesn't have that, with about half the population as FL. It's an advantage in recruiting. Ohio State has the same kind of advantage. But, yes, any program can slip, we see how USC has done of late. Texas is still recruiting well.
The most stable program in my view is Ohio State, I can't see how they are likely at all to slide very far. And they have never been bad for long.
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Ohio State really needs a couple strong rivals to give them the business
like Purdue and hopefully Nebraska this Saturday!
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Ohio State has been so crazily consistent with coaching changes that haven't resulted in much downturn in production.
Even Cooper's teams did well, except against Michigan.
Not sure if it's something intrinsic, or just good fortune. It's pretty remarkable, honestly.
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witchcraft
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witchcraft
I'd say they made a pact with the devil, but they never seem to have to pay up.
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ed zachery, gotta be witchcraft
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Only program of note in a large state with good football. The Catholics used to go to ND, that appeal has lessened. They are a Blue Blood and I imagine every player in Ohio nearly wants to play for them. And they do well and have rabid fans. They have no recruiting weaknesses except perhaps being less prominent in the SE.
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been a while since LSU was a 28 point dog
and a top Ten team (wake) a dog to an unranked team (Mack Brown's UNC)
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Grinch is interviewing for the TT HC job. If he goes, I wouldn't mind GP for OU DC.
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That would be interesting. His defensive wizardry hasn't been much on display the last 2-3 years.
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If TCU can recruit elite players, they can be relevant, and vice versa.
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it will help the horned frogs when UT and OU are gone
they seemed to have decent success against the Horns, but not vs the Sooners
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been a while since LSU was a 28 point dog
and a top Ten team (wake) a dog to an unranked team (Mack Brown's UNC)
This indeed is interesting to note. I imagine we all believe Wake is a mirage. LSU will likely get thumped. It's been a while since UGA was a 37 point favorite in a conference game.
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some interesting games Saturday, at least for me
huskers game at 11am, but I'll be checking WF @ UNC, Liberty @ Ole Miss, and Illinois @ Minnesoota
I'll be on the golf course at 2:30, but I think Purdue with their run defense has a chance to upset Michigan St.
Auburn @ A&M, Can Arkansas at home upset Mississippi St? NC St @ FSU
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If TCU can recruit elite players, they can be relevant, and vice versa.
I’ll admit I don’t really follow the rankings that closely but have they ever really recruited elite? Their mojo seems to be take 3* athletes no matter their position and mold them into their system at whatever position they can get the most production out of. Also they seemed to get a lot of transfers. I know we’ve lost several to them over the years.
I think a lot of schools make the mistake of trying to run the same systems vs the big boys with inferior talent. Mike Leach at Tech really showed the path on how to do this. Run a different system the other team doesn’t see very often, tailor it to find players you can actually recruit. All the coaches since Leach have done the traditional offense with piss poor showing. A&M made the same mistake with our last three coaches. We constantly whiffed on the best 4* players and the best of the 3* guys went to tcu and tech and ok state.
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Leach had a high risk, high reward system at Tech. His teams could beat the "big boys" in the conference, but would also lose to the directional OOC schools. His fan base didn't mind the losses as long as they could crow about the wins. He was never going to win meaningful hardware with that scheme.
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It’s Tech. They’ve literally never won a conference championship in their entire history. They hardly ever recruit well. Their star players were accidents who panned out.
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like the Patrick Mahomes accident?
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Tenn at Kentucky is interesting. Tenn is looking better and UK may be fading. UK could still end up 10-2 if they can hold serve in this one. They may still be somewhat depressed over the UGA outcome. Tenn can score.
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Tenn at Kentucky is interesting. Tenn is looking better and UK may be fading. UK could still end up 10-2 if they can hold serve in this one. They may still be somewhat depressed over the UGA outcome. Tenn can score.
That's an interesting game for me. UK's HFC is the "other" Stoops brother and Tennessee's head guy is OU's last NC QB, Josh Heupel. I think I'll find myself rooting for Tennessee.
In the early '00s, it looked there was potential for Heupel to end up as the HFC at OU at some point and for former Texas QB Major Applewhite to end up doing the same at his alma mater.
It was interesting to think about, but doesn't look like it's ever going to happen.
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former great QBs at their alma mater don't always work out
See Michigan and Nebraska
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like the Patrick Mahomes accident?
I don’t particularly remember him being highly recruited. Neither was Baker.
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nope, both 3 stars
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JFF was three stars, and Tannehill was either a 2 or 3 star player. Tannehill still starts in the NFL, going on 10 years.
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former great QBs at their alma mater don't always work out
See Michigan and Nebraska
Ray Goff is another example, not great in college, but very very good, all conference I think.
UGA is honoring Marc Richt at Half time Saturday.