CFB51 College Football Fan Community
The Power Five => Big Ten => Topic started by: 847badgerfan on September 10, 2021, 04:45:07 PM
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Another one.
Big 12 adds UCF, BYU, Cincy and Houston.
Now they are talking about Memphis and Boise.
Interesting, for sure.
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That's twice now since 2000 that Cincinnati has joined a big boy league without OSU keeping them down.
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The map is interesting.
(https://i.imgur.com/kiDekOz.jpg)
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That's twice now since 2000 that Cincinnati has joined a big boy league without OSU keeping them down.
Check your premises, BB...
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The geography is tailor made for the pod system.
- South: Texas Tech, TCU, Baylor, Houston
- North: OSU2, Kansas, KSU, ISU
- East: W Virginia, Cincinnati, UCF, Memphis
- West: BYU, Boise, SDSU?, UNLV?
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Getting into Cali would be beneficial for them.
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Fresno?
San Jose?
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That's twice now since 2000 that Cincinnati has joined a big boy league without OSU keeping them down.
The question becomes... will they get Pluto'd again?
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I love it.
It's good for Ohio CFB. It's good for CFB in the MTZ.
As a Bearcat fan I followed the revamped Big East pretty closely, and this conference is way better than that. To drive this point home look no further than WV. They were the team to beat in the revamped Big East. The undisputed centerpiece. Now, they just blend right into the pack.
In the revamped Big East Rutgers with Ray Rice was the only other old guard to make any noise. Pitt and Syracuse were both horrible. It was the noobs that really kept it afloat beyond WV. Louisville, Cincinnati, USF and even UConn were all playing about the best FB that they'd ever played.
This is going to be a fun league. Coast to coast. Recruiting tentacles in Florida, Ohio, and all throughout Texas. It will be fun to see which teams emerge as the teams to beat. Don't count out the Big 12 just yet.
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The map is interesting.
(https://i.imgur.com/kiDekOz.jpg)
That Provo dot is way off, btw.
Provo is on I-15 up near Salt Lake.
That dot is on I-70.
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I think the the hope might be by the time they come divisional rules are deregulated. Seems to be some push for that and I doubt we make it to the an expanded CFP without it (conferences will want their 2 best teams in championship to maximize chance one of them gets bye). Not sure it will happen before then though even if it happens.
I think those teams set-up best for a kind of PAC-12ish set-up. Divide the Texas schools, but have them play each other annually locked (like California schools in PAC-12). Then divide up by older and newer. It preserves most rivalries and every much play game that I can see.
Division 1:
Iowa State
Kansas State
Kansas
Oklahoma State
Baylor
Texas Tech
Division 2:
BYU
Cincinnati
UCF
West Virginia
Houston
TCU
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There is also some reporting that there is at least some wanting to go up a bit more once Texas and Oklahoma leave. I think the money might work better with 12 than 14, but if 14 does work better, my guess would be Memphis and Boise with some consideration to South Florida and Colorado State.
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I think the the hope might be by the time they come divisional rules are deregulated. Seems to be some push for that and I doubt we make it to the an expanded CFP without it (conferences will want their 2 best teams in championship to maximize chance one of them gets bye). Not sure it will happen before then though even if it happens.
I think those teams set-up best for a kind of PAC-12ish set-up. Divide the Texas schools, but have them play each other annually locked (like California schools in PAC-12). Then divide up by older and newer. It preserves most rivalries and every much play game that I can see.
Division 1:
Iowa State
Kansas State
Kansas
Oklahoma State
Baylor
Texas Tech
Division 2:
BYU
Cincinnati
UCF
West Virginia
Houston
TCU
The Noobs and The Rubes?
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They could add whoever they want, but it doesn't matter. They're 2nd-tier. Yawn.
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The map is interesting.
(https://i.imgur.com/kiDekOz.jpg)
There's an error on the map.
Baylor is located in Waco, between Austin and Dallas on I-35, not between San Antonio and Matagorda Bay.
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His WV dot is on Marshall's campus.
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My thoughts are that the Big 8 added four schools that add a lot of value to the existing conference.
- UCF has an enrollment of 70,000. Is there another school this large in the USA? UCF will bring a lot of eyeballs to television sets now, and even more in the future.
- Houston has a history of doing well in football and basketball. Remember Elgin Baylor? The city is the 3rd or 4th largest in the USA. Enrollment is 46,000.
- BYU is little Notre Dame (because it has a built-in national following), but with 2-3x the enrollment (enrollment 33,000). It won a national championship within most of our memories.
- Cincinnati has had good basketball since the Big O, and damned good football for being a Group of 5 school. Enrollment is 46,000.
After the three-conference alliance was formed, it was important for the Big 8 to reformulate quickly, and Bob Bowlsby did a good job in doing so.
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Are you their PR director? Sheesh.
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Are you their PR director? Sheesh.
These schools had no where to go. If you were the Big 8 conference commissioner (who I really do not care for), after Texas and Oklahoma announce their departure, and the Pac-12 and Big Ten announce they are forming an alliance, and were not adding members, what would you do?
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The intent of my map was to show the states that now make up the Big 12. If I knew where a school was located, I was able to pinpoint.
For the others.. don't care.
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Probably not as many ripple effects as usual.
The AAC is down to 8 teams after losing these three teams and UConn. Since they no longer need 12 teams in order to hold a CCG, I predict that they only add two and stand pat at 10.
If both teams come from CUSA, then they will be down to 12 from 14, and that's probably just fine with them.
Worst case scenario, they take one from CUSA and one from the Sunbelt. CUSA would probably stand pat at 13, like the Mac did for a long time. The Sunbelt might add one to get back to ten, and they have plenty of options. They could bring back NMSU for example, or they could add Liberty, or some overachieving FCS team from the Southeast.
That's about as crazy as it will get, unless something really unexpected happens. Like the American adding 8 teams to get to 16, or some such.
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Do you know the difference between the AAC and Conf USA?
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Time.
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CUSA has always been a feeder conference for the AAC.
Do you know the difference between the AAC and Conf USA?
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Time.
Yes, very observant.
CUSA has indeed always been a feeder conference for the AAC/Big East.
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/timeline/e28c974921b394172d65eae103638234.png)
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So the AAC is going to raid the Hell out of CUSA it would appear.
https://twitter.com/Brett_McMurphy/status/1450476502739456001?s=20
Normally CUSA would respond by raiding the Sunbelt, but it would appear that the shoe is now on the other foot. It is being reported that S Miss and Marshall are instead going to the Sunbelt.
If so, then CUSA is down to:
- FIU
- LA Tech
- M Tennessee
- Old Dominion
- W Kentucky
- UTEP
M Tennessee, FIU and W Kentucky of course came from the Sunbelt.
I find it odd that Marshall would go to the Sunbelt instead of back to the MAC.
I doubt they would have left the MAC directly for the Sunbelt, and the Sunbelt today is a lot weaker than it was back then. So why go there now?
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Breaking News: Conf USA is changing its name to "Crap Salad."
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Breaking News: Conf USA is changing its name to "Crap Salad."
The Group of Five needs to reorganize into one collective, with 4 geographic "divisions".
They need to quit poaching from each other til the low one on the totem pole dissolves. Otherwise, eventually, each one will be the low man.
Granted somehow the MAC just keeps on keeping on. Very relatively unchanged for decades.
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The MAC is the only G5 in the North, and the MWC is the only G5 out West. So they will be fine.
AAC, CUSA and the Sunbelt are all in the Southeast.
I'm not sure I'm buying Marshall and S Miss to the Sunbelt because the pecking order has always been that CUSA raids the Sunbelt after the AAC raids them. In fact three of the remaining schools in CUSA used to be in the Sunbelt in W Kentucky, M Tennessee and FIU, but the Sunbelt doesn't want any of them back?
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Cincy should've joined the B1G. Think it's absolute horseshit that Ohio State can have Ohio all to itself in the B1G- meanwhile Michigan has to share the state of Michigan with Sparty- a state that has 2 million less people than Ohio and probably not even half of the P5 high school football talent.
Michigan would be a hell of a lot better if Sparty wasn't around. They are sharing a state that has little to no real football talent with another major program. I say make it tougher on Ohio State and get Cincy in the B1G and let them be a pain in Ohio State's ass like Sparty is a pain in Michigan's.
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I enjoy disorganized mayhem over nice tidy conferences.
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The geography is tailor made for the pod system.
- South: Texas Tech, TCU, Baylor, Houston
- North: OSU2, Kansas, KSU, ISU
- East: W Virginia, Cincinnati, UCF, Memphis
- West: BYU, Boise, SDSU?, UNLV?
IMHO, this would make a LOT of sense because it would build up geographic rivalries and minimize travel costs.
For Cincinnati, their schedule would then be (assuming nine game league schedule):
- 3: The three other teams in their division: WVU ~300mi, Memphis ~500 mi, UCF ~900 mi. Those aren't as close as most conference travel but LOTS closer than the B12's very distant teams.
- 4: All four teams from one of the other divisions on a rotating basis. When this was the North (OkSU, KU, KSU, ISU) it would be close, when it was the South (TxTech, TCU, Baylor, Houston) it wouldn't be too bad, when it was the West (BYU, Boise, SDSU?, UNLV?) it would be FAR.
- 2: One team each from the other two divisions probably selected based on performance to maximize quality match-ups.
That would be a pretty good set-up for the Bearcats. They'd probably want to keep their OOC match-ups close to home but that leaves them with PLENTY of options including a lot of historic rivals (like Miami, OH) and teams that they were previously in conferences with (like Pitt, Louisville, etc).
This potential league does not have the ratings draw to keep up with the B1G but I think they could keep themselves comfortably ahead of the MAC/SBelt/AAC/CUSA.
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They could add whoever they want, but it doesn't matter. They're 2nd-tier. Yawn.
Honestly third. The SEC's addition of OU and Texas puts them substantially ahead of the rest of the old P5 and puts the B12 substantially behind. Maybe not even third but fourth. New "tiers":
- SEC
- B1G
- ACC, PAC: I dropped them below the B1G because they haven't kept up in revenue or on-field performance with the exception of Clemson. Clemson has been great in the ACC but who is their 2nd best team? Clemson's performance has exceeded #1 in the B1G, tOSU's but I would guess the second best performing ACC school would be about 5th in the B1G.
- B12 remnants plus whatever they add.
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The Group of Five needs to reorganize into one collective, with 4 geographic "divisions".
They need to quit poaching from each other til the low one on the totem pole dissolves. Otherwise, eventually, each one will be the low man.
Granted somehow the MAC just keeps on keeping on. Very relatively unchanged for decades.
The MAC is the only G5 in the North, and the MWC is the only G5 out West. So they will be fine.
AAC, CUSA and the Sunbelt are all in the Southeast.
I'm not sure I'm buying Marshall and S Miss to the Sunbelt because the pecking order has always been that CUSA raids the Sunbelt after the AAC raids them. In fact three of the remaining schools in CUSA used to be in the Sunbelt in W Kentucky, M Tennessee and FIU, but the Sunbelt doesn't want any of them back?
I think @ELA (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=55) and @Brutus Buckeye (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=31) both have good points here. There are, IMHO, two problems with the raiding game:
- As ELA pointed out eventually each one ends up getting gutted, and
- It creates these geographically unwieldy TV conferences to maximize football revenue but that also increases costs for other sports. Ie, when you add say Fresno St to a Midwestern or SE league because they are pretty good at football and in recruiting-rich California that makes sense (and dollars) in football but it also means that now you have to ship the women's volleyball team across the country for a conference match and that costs a lot for literally zero financial benefit.
I think the smarter play for them would be to create a non-poaching agreement tied to a scheduling alliance. The scheduling alliance could be managed to maximize high profile television games that will bring revenue to the leagues. Ie, right now the non-P5 ranked teams are:
- #2 Cincy, AAC
- #14 CCU, SBelt
- #21 SMU, AAC
- #22 SDSU, MWC
- #24 UTSA, CUSA
You might even leave the "scheduling alliance" games undetermined until mid-season. That way you would KNOW you were getting high-end games to bring the revenue in. Example:
- #2 Cincy could host #14 CCU and travel to #22 SDSU
- #14 CCU could host #21 SMU and travel to #2 Cincy
- #21 SMU could host #24 UTSA and travel to #14 CCU
- #22 SDSU could host #2 Cincy and travel to #24 UTSA
- #24 UTSA could host #22 SDSU and travel to #21 SMU
That gets you five ranked vs ranked games that will generate significant TV revenue and by being flexible you'd basically get that (or close to it) every year because it doesn't matter which teams are ranked it just matters that some teams are ranked and you'll have them play each other. The rest of the games could be scheduled based on two factors:
- Equivalent match-ups: mediocre vs mediocre, bad vs bad
- Travel costs
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Cincy should've joined the B1G. Think it's absolute horseshit that Ohio State can have Ohio all to itself in the B1G- meanwhile Michigan has to share the state of Michigan with Sparty- a state that has 2 million less people than Ohio and probably not even half of the P5 high school football talent.
Michigan would be a hell of a lot better if Sparty wasn't around. They are sharing a state that has little to no real football talent with another major program. I say make it tougher on Ohio State and get Cincy in the B1G and let them be a pain in Ohio State's ass like Sparty is a pain in Michigan's.
I would never advocate kicking out schools that ARE in the B1G but, in retrospect, it was a mistake to add MSU in the first place. The B1G would be better off today if we had only one school each in Michigan, Indiana, and Illinois and used the extra slots thus created to add one school each in three new states.
Michigan State was added in 1949 and their first year of BigTen Football was the 1953 season (they won the league and the RoseBowl that season).
In the 1950 census Michigan's population was 6.4 million where today it is up to 10.1 million but the more relevant issue is population relative to the country as a whole.
In 1950 Michigan's population of 6.4 M was #7 in the nation behind:
- NY 14.8 M
- CA 10.6 M
- PA 10.5 M
- IL 8.7 M
- OH 7.9 M
- TX 7.7 M
They were still ahead of FL (#20 with 2.8 M), GA (#13 with 3.4 M), and NC (#10 with 4.1 M).
In 2020 Michigan's population of 10.1 M was #10 in the nation behind
- CA 39.5 M
- TX 29.1 M
- FL 21.5 M
- NY 20.2 M
- PA 13.0 M
- IL 12.8 M
- OH 11.8 M
- GA 10.7 M
- NC 10.4 M
Looked at another way:
- 4.23%: In 1950 Michigan's population of about 6.4 M was about 4.23% of the US population of 151.3 M
- 3.27%: In 2020 Michigan's population of about 10.1 M was about 3.27% of the US population of 308.7 M
I do NOT think that the solution to this conundrum is to kick out MSU, IU, and one of the IL schools but I also do NOT think the solution is to make the same stupid mistake AGAIN by adding Cincy, ISU, Pitt, or any other school in an existing B1G state.
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I guess we need Marquette to step up and re-ad football.
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and U of Chicago
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UC still has a program. It's D3. They play at Stagg Field. Probably need to make it bigger, like the old days.
(https://i.imgur.com/mzsK9Xl.jpg)
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(https://i.imgur.com/5Q0ZcYS.png)
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yup, add the seating back and go D1
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Does the new "stadium" even have seating?
Can't tell from the picture.
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Yes, but less than most high schools in Chicago. In some cases, much less.
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I'm not sure I've ever seen a smaller CFB stadium than that.
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I do NOT think that the solution to this conundrum is to kick out MSU, IU, and one of the IL schools but I also do NOT think the solution is to make the same stupid mistake AGAIN by adding Cincy, ISU, Pitt, or any other school in an existing B1G state.
Exactly. I don't see that those schools add anything to the conference except numbers, but by giving them the cache of B1G status it dilutes the ability of the existing schools in those states to dominate recruiting.
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Often, standing pat is the right choice. Panic breeds overly hasty actions regretted in time.
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https://twitter.com/Brett_McMurphy/status/1451668085572788231?s=20
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I think Southern Miss peaked as a B-level independent in the 80s/90s.
Anywho, that's where Jimmy Buffett went, so it's a pretty big deal.
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Brett Favre played there, no?
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He did! And he never had a passer rating over 130. He had a good soph season and coasted until getting drafted.
Ray Guy went to SoMiss. So did Sammy Winder. Louis Lipps. Patrick Surtain Sr.
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I idly wonder if at some point the SEC becomes a de facto two conferences, akin to two current conferences with some agreements to play each other.
Whatever became of that ACC/B1G/Pac "agreement"? Words on paper meaning nothing?
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I’m blown away that in 70 years the population of Michigan went up by 4 million while Texas went up by 20 million. I mean I knew we gained a lot of people but I had no idea the disparity was that much.
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If most of the people moving to Texas and California are from a place where "football" means soccer, then what difference does it make with regards to CFB?
Besides, Cali has four P5s, and Texas will soon be back up to six.
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Whatever became of that ACC/B1G/Pac "agreement"? Words on paper meaning nothing?
Too early to tell. It will probably be a year until we know. Don't be impatient :57:
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I idly wonder if at some point the SEC becomes a de facto two conferences, akin to two current conferences with some agreements to play each other.
Whatever became of that ACC/B1G/Pac "agreement"? Words on paper meaning nothing?
What kind of balls would it take for the SEC to ditch East and West and label the divisions NFC and AFC? lol
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What can CUSA even do?
They could load up on FBS Independents, but Liberty already turned them down, and Army supposedly turned down the AAC.
So that leaves what? UConn, UMass and New Mexico State? Toss in an FCS school or three?
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If most of the people moving to Texas and California are from a place where "football" means soccer, then what difference does it make with regards to CFB?
Besides, Cali has four P5s, and Texas will soon be back up to six.
B cause, those people buy the "sports" package on their TV lineup and add revenue
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B cause, those people buy the "sports" package on their TV lineup and add revenue
Sure, but I thought that we were talking about the ability to field multiple teams based on a large population.
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the large population turns on TV sets, therefore providing revenue needed to field multiple teams
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Okay, so Texas fields 5 (soon to be 6) P5 teams, and none of them are good.
Cali fields 4 P5 teams and none of them are good.
Well played.
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https://twitter.com/ChrisVannini/status/1453895883804786690?s=20
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More purgatory crap salad. Fun.
$$$$$ > any hope of a NC
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Well what did you expect them to do? Raid the SEC?
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Well what did you expect them to do? Raid the SEC?
That would be epic, lol. Just leak it to provide the earth with a hearty laugh.
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Wouldn't be the worst idea for Vandy. Just retain their baseball membership
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https://twitter.com/SportingMads/status/1456638494907027468?s=20
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I hope JMU explains to the current players that they're forfeiting competing for championships and volunteering for purgatory so that the school can make more money.
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We were just discussing how relatively unchanged the MAC has been, but it sounds like they are adding WKU and MTSU for zero reason
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That would suck, but if true then I hope that they both wind up in the West division so that Toledo can be released into the East division.
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Damn it, the WAC relaunch is getting tore up before it even starts.
https://twitter.com/ConferenceUSA/status/1456697933492113409?s=20
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https://twitter.com/Brett_McMurphy/status/1458464370757881866?s=20
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This is the domino that everyone's been waiting on. Now the floodgates will open.
https://twitter.com/JonRothstein/status/1460715117767708677?s=20
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basketball?
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Once upon a time the WAC added UTSA in a desperate attempt to save WAC Football.
Fast forward to today, and it's UTSA's little brother Incarnate Word out of San Antonio TX.
https://twitter.com/UIWAthletics/status/1459189933273493505?s=20
"But Brutus, that only brings them up to seven!" you howl.
Worry not, current WAC member Rio Grande will be adding Football in 2025.
https://twitter.com/rgv_com/status/1459180174356975632?s=20
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I still think the B1G should add ND in the West and wait for it....Miami-FL in the East.
Add a huge national brand like ND and add a great academic school like Miami in the East and it gives B1G Network access to South FL tv market (one of the 5 or 6 biggest in US) and access to all them South Florida recruits.
Miami would probably join in a hot-minute. They'd be making so much more money in the B1G than they ever could in a weak and dying ACC.
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I still think the B1G should add ND in the West and wait for it....Miami-FL in the East.
Add a huge national brand like ND and add a great academic school like Miami in the East and it gives B1G Network access to South FL tv market (one of the 5 or 6 biggest in US) and access to all them South Florida recruits.
Miami would probably join in a hot-minute. They'd be making so much more money in the B1G than they ever could in a weak and dying ACC.
It's too early in the day to be drinking this heavily, Mdot... Please tell me you're on vacation this week :57:
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Ya teams getting use to 20-30 deg temps going to Coral Gables in November.Not sure the Canes would want to play in Madison/Ann Arbor/E.Lansing/Mnpls in November
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It's too early in the day to be drinking this heavily, Mdot... Please tell me you're on vacation this week :57:
Not drunk at all. They’d be the only team out there that I’d even want to add in the East.
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I still think the B1G should add ND in the West and wait for it....Miami-FL in the East.
Add a huge national brand like ND and add a great academic school like Miami in the East and it gives B1G Network access to South FL tv market (one of the 5 or 6 biggest in US) and access to all them South Florida recruits.
Miami would probably join in a hot-minute. They'd be making so much more money in the B1G than they ever could in a weak and dying ACC.
For football only Miami in the B1G might actually work.
It's all the other sports that are the problem. Sports that play way more than 4 or 5 away games and oftentimes on weekdays just wouldn't work out, at all, which makes it a non-starter.
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Ya teams getting use to 20-30 deg temps going to Coral Gables in November.Not sure the Canes would want to play in Madison/Ann Arbor/E.Lansing/Mnpls in November
Miami Dolphins play in a division with all cold weather teams- Boston, NYC, & Buffalo.
Miami-FL makes a lot of sense in the B1G E when you really think about it.
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For football only Miami in the B1G might actually work.
It's all the other sports that are the problem. Sports that play way more than 4 or 5 away games and oftentimes on weekdays just wouldn't work out, at all, which makes it a non-starter.
The only sport that matters and the only sport there even is in my opinion is football.
Joining B1G E in football only would help them make a lot more money to fund all those other sports that no one gives a shit about and lose money.
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why take the Canes when you could have the Noles?
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The only sport that matters and the only sport there even is in my opinion is football.
Joining B1G E in football only would help them make a lot more money to fund all those other sports that no one gives a shit about and lose money.
No major team is going to join a conference football-only, unless/until ALL schools decouple
Where's Miami going to park their non-revenue sports? The ACC won't allow them to decouple football because, as you say, football is the only sport that matters. Miami's football is the only sport that potentially generates any revenue for the ACC, and having the conference support their other sports without their football program, again, is a non-starter.
We've speculated a lot about what could be possible if ALL of the major schools decoupled football from the non-revenue sports, but until that happens for EVERYONE, a school like Miami wouldn't be able to go it alone.
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To me, I just don't get the Miami idea. I just don't get the sense that they "fit" in any way, shape, or form.
You don't have a pairing for them either. UT/OU would have been a bit of a difficult fit in a few ways (geography/culture), but at least they fit as large, public, research schools, flagships universities of their respective states, and with rich tradition in football. Miami would be a weird outlier shoehorned into the conference for what, access to S.Fla recruits? How many of those recruits really want to spend a winter in Madison WI anyway? If you could add them as a pair, say FSU/daU, maybe they'll feel a little less stranded, but FSU doesn't feel like a program we'd want to add either.
Miami had no real football history prior to Schnellenberger, and their program has tremendously fallen off after their 20-year run of relevance. They don't have much fan support. They don't even have a stadium of their own. It seems like on top of all the cultural/other reasons they don't fit, adding Miami would be like trying to catch a falling star long after its rise.
They don't belong in the B1G.
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To me, I just don't get the Miami idea. I just don't get the sense that they "fit" in any way, shape, or form.
You don't have a pairing for them either. UT/OU would have been a bit of a difficult fit in a few ways (geography/culture), but at least they fit as large, public, research schools, flagships universities of their respective states, and with rich tradition in football. Miami would be a weird outlier shoehorned into the conference for what, access to S.Fla recruits? How many of those recruits really want to spend a winter in Madison WI anyway? If you could add them as a pair, say FSU/daU, maybe they'll feel a little less stranded, but FSU doesn't feel like a program we'd want to add either.
Miami had no real football history prior to Schnellenberger, and their program has tremendously fallen off after their 20-year run of relevance. They don't have much fan support. They don't even have a stadium of their own. It seems like on top of all the cultural/other reasons they don't fit, adding Miami would be like trying to catch a falling star long after its rise.
They don't belong in the B1G.
Dump Rutgers and Maryland, and add FSU/Miami.
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Dump Rutgers and Maryland, and add FSU/Miami.
Dump Rutgers, we all agree that has been a horrible experiment.
Maryland, beat Texas twice. They are not a football helmet, but they are a decent add. The worse thing Maryland has for it is they were added with Rutgers.
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lulz
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Dump Rutgers, we all agree that has been a horrible experiment.
Maryland, beat Texas twice. They are not a football helmet, but they are a decent add. The worse thing Maryland has for it is they were added with Rutgers.
Rutgers beat the Wolverines once.
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Dump Rutgers and Maryland, and add FSU/Miami.
Two different ideas.
You don't have to dump 2 to add 2. As the SEC has just shown, going to 16 is certainly possible [and other conferences might follow].
If you dump Rutgers and Maryland, it still doesn't make FSU/Miami good additions. That said, you can also dump Rutgers and Maryland without adding anyone. Going from 14 back to 12 is certainly possible too. The PAC is likely to stay at 12 and I don't see it changing because of a lack of good teams to add, and a lack of geographic cohesion for any team to want to leave. The B1G would be strong enough at 12.
That said, I don't think the first half of the statement will ever happen. I don't see the B1G tossing members, even recent additions, absent some sort of major off-field scandal or the school in question doing something like no longer choosing to field a football team.
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Two different ideas.
You don't have to dump 2 to add 2. As the SEC has just shown, going to 16 is certainly possible [and other conferences might follow].
If you dump Rutgers and Maryland, it still doesn't make FSU/Miami good additions. That said, you can also dump Rutgers and Maryland without adding anyone. Going from 14 back to 12 is certainly possible too. The PAC is likely to stay at 12 and I don't see it changing because of a lack of good teams to add, and a lack of geographic cohesion for any team to want to leave. The B1G would be strong enough at 12.
That said, I don't think the first half of the statement will ever happen. I don't see the B1G tossing members, even recent additions, absent some sort of major off-field scandal or the school in question doing something like no longer choosing to field a football team.
When the SEC added Texas and Oklahoma, you insisted that the Big Ten had no choice but to add two more in order to keep up. Now you are suggesting contraction?
That's one helluva change of perspective in just a few short months.
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When the SEC added Texas and Oklahoma, you insisted that the Big Ten had no choice but to add two more in order to keep up. Now you are suggesting contraction?
That's one helluva change of perspective in just a few short months.
No, I don't think I ever said that. In fact, I flat out argued against any schools such as Iowa State as "add ISU just because we know they'll say yes and need to add."
My argument then, and now, is that if there is a compelling addition that makes sense [more likely two, obviously], the B1G should do it. But we shouldn't be adding schools that don't bring more to us than they dilute from our existing brand. Kansas could be a positive addition [due to basketball]. Notre Dame [ugh!] could as well. Iowa State, KSU, OkSU, etc, who may be more than willing to say yes as the B12 implodes, do NOT bring more than they dilute.
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No major team is going to join a conference football-only, unless/until ALL schools decouple
Where's Miami going to park their non-revenue sports? The ACC won't allow them to decouple football because, as you say, football is the only sport that matters. Miami's football is the only sport that potentially generates any revenue for the ACC, and having the conference support their other sports without their football program, again, is a non-starter.
We've speculated a lot about what could be possible if ALL of the major schools decoupled football from the non-revenue sports, but until that happens for EVERYONE, a school like Miami wouldn't be able to go it alone.
Notre Dame is not a football member.
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When Miami was in the Big East, they were the only team south of Virginia Tech. Maybe they play better in cold weather.
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Notre Dame is not a football member.
Miami ain't Notre Dame. And, they play 5/8 football games in the ACC nowadays anyway, so they basically ARE a football member.
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ND has a strange relationship with the ACC they could not have with any other conference.
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Once upon a time the WAC added UTSA in a desperate attempt to save WAC Football.
Fast forward to today, and it's UTSA's little brother Incarnate Word out of San Antonio TX.
I just checked and Incarnate Word's FB stadium is only 6k. :o
(https://dbukjj6eu5tsf.cloudfront.net/sidearm.sites/cardinalathletics.com/images/2018/7/24/New_Turf_Full_Size.jpg)
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ND has a strange relationship with the ACC they could not have with any other conference.
It's weird that they didn't just keep their Olympic sports in the Big East like they were before.
In fact it would make even more sense today now that the Big East doesn't sponsor football, and is nearly all Catholic.
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When the SEC added Texas and Oklahoma, you insisted that the Big Ten had no choice but to add two more in order to keep up. Now you are suggesting contraction?
That's one helluva change of perspective in just a few short months.
I should add that I was somewhat bullish on the idea of a B1G/PAC mega-merger idea, dropping the chaff and getting the best half or so of the conference (Colorado/Utah/Wash/Ore/Stan/USC, give or take based on who you say is "best"). I also was arguing for Colorado if we could entice them out of the PAC and needed someone to pair with a Kansas because I thought (and still feel) that it fits somewhat with the nature of the B1G and would create a true "west" group in NE/KS/CO that would be similar and a home much like PSU/UMD/RU do now.
But again it was about "what will add to our conference?" more than "we have no choice but to add now!" I'm a fan of standing pat if the right situation isn't there.
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I should add that I was somewhat bullish on the idea of a B1G/PAC mega-merger idea, dropping the chaff and getting the best half or so of the conference (Colorado/Utah/Wash/Ore/Stan/USC, give or take based on who you say is "best"). I also was arguing for Colorado if we could entice them out of the PAC and needed someone to pair with a Kansas because I thought (and still feel) that it fits somewhat with the nature of the B1G and would create a true "west" group in NE/KS/CO that would be similar and a home much like PSU/UMD/RU do now.
But again it was about "what will add to our conference?" more than "we have no choice but to add now!" I'm a fan of standing pat if the right situation isn't there.
Yeah my bad, I must have mixed you up with someone else. :-[
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What's the news if any on the Pac/B1G/ACC thing? It sounded to me like a large nothing.
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What's the news if any on the Pac/B1G/ACC thing? It sounded to me like a large nothing.
Every year the three commissioners are going to get together and draw teams out of a hat, and then that will be the conferences for that year.
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Every year the three commissioners are going to get together and draw teams out of a hat, and then that will be the conferences for that year.
I like it, very creative and unusual.
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Every year the three commissioners are going to get together and draw teams out of a hat, and then that will be the conferences for that year.
This would actually be extremely interesting.
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Scheduling nightmare,playing different teams every year have to be a 2 yr agreement to ensure home on home
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Miami makes sense to me, FSU does not.
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Miami makes sense to me, FSU does not.
You just want to be able to go to Big Ten games in south Florida. :13:
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You just want to be able to go to Big Ten games in south Florida. :13:
Not only that- but they can get the B1G Network on basic/expanded basic packages in the 3rd most populous state, maybe the fastest growing state in the country, and have a team in one of the largest tv markets - which means more $$$$$ - and again...you have more access and more of a sales pitch to recruits in South Florida.
Miami is a really good school and I'm sure they'd love all the new free money.
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What's the news if any on the Pac/B1G/ACC thing? It sounded to me like a large nothing.
Well, the B1G already announced conference schedules through 2025 back in 2018. Not sure how far out the ACC or PAC have their conference schedules in ink...
In order to make annual games against PAC and ACC teams viable, the conference would pretty much have to go back to an 8-game conference schedule, but I'm sure trying to determine who gets dropped to have 6 division games and 2 crossovers is difficult, especially if you maintain 4 home, 4 away games. Especially if you're trying to align it with teams to have open dates across two additional conferences, AND want to ensure that each B1G team gets one home and one away across those two conferences each year. Oh, and the PAC just happens to have two less teams than either the B1G or ACC, so you need to figure out which B1G/ACC teams will get one less cross-conference matchup that year.
Then, several teams may already have OOC lined up through then as well. Some of this might align; i.e. if a team has a H&H with an ACC or PAC team already, then great! Job done! But if not, you have to look at the extent to which teams are willing and able to break those contracts.
My guess is they're looking at the viability of when they could actually start going to 8-game conference schedules and locking down two OOC B1G/PAC/ACC matchups per year. It's possible that they're doing this all in the background and can announce that it'll commence before 2025, but it's possible that the teams themselves want to hold off until then.
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You just want to be able to go to Big Ten games in south Florida. :13:
That's my argument for USC or UCLA. Hell, I'd even drive up for a game at Stanford.
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That's my argument for USC or UCLA. Hell, I'd even drive up for a game at Stanford.
There'd have to be two eastern teams as well, or else it would force Purdue into the B1G East, and you wouldn't get to see them every year.
How about Notre Dame and Miami? :098:
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That's my argument for USC or UCLA. Hell, I'd even drive up for a game at Stanford.
USC/UCLA wayyyyyy too far. Plus we don't want to be moving towards dying shit hole California- we're looking for new, exciting growth- move to Florida- like everyone god damn else- so many people here right now traffic is like twice as bad as it used to be.
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I just checked and Incarnate Word's FB stadium is only 6k. :o
(https://dbukjj6eu5tsf.cloudfront.net/sidearm.sites/cardinalathletics.com/images/2018/7/24/New_Turf_Full_Size.jpg)
I'm gonna need to sit in on a biology class at that "school."
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According to wiki there are 18 fcs stadiums that are even smaller than that.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_NCAA_Division_I_FCS_football_stadiums
3 of the smallest 4 are in PA of all places.
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Duquesne is the smallest at 2.2k. In Pittsburgh.
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/b8/RooneyField1.jpg)
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nothing to be proud of
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nothing to be proud of
That's AFTER it was "expanded" in 2011 too.
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It has a decent view overlooking the river, but that's about it. Never been there for a game, I always say I'm going to.
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It has a decent view overlooking the river, but that's about it. Never been there for a game, I always say I'm going to.
All three of the ultra tiny PA FCS stadiums are in the Pittsburgh area. There's Robert Morris at 3k
(https://images.squarespace-cdn.com/content/v1/5b3513ba5417fce5c520ea09/1557761398900-WHM537WBG8E59YOC1MQS/JoeWaltonStadium3.jpg?format=1000w)
...and St Francis at 3.5k
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/6/61/DeGol_Field.jpg/800px-DeGol_Field.jpg)
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All three of the ultra tiny PA FCS stadiums are in the Pittsburgh area. There's Robert Morris at 3k
(https://images.squarespace-cdn.com/content/v1/5b3513ba5417fce5c520ea09/1557761398900-WHM537WBG8E59YOC1MQS/JoeWaltonStadium3.jpg?format=1000w)
does to opponent's side of the field actually drop off down a fairly step hill as it looks in this pic?
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Yeah, sorta.
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/proxy/eediizDSQYNKiY3tFXpl6fWZOzNPhEauUKgEoCeacvir2ts6rbPV8bn-_B1e_2lg9dspQxYUgYcW0wFLAXk6rcpzdrvXnZzsI8M4sb4Z2Xbpu_RQN82p)
Kind of cool how they used the hillside as the stands. Cuts down on construction costs.
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(https://i.imgur.com/eQJk95u.png)
Sanford Stadium was built in a gulch also, a creek runs under it. The original stands are at "ground level" so to speak.
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https://twitter.com/ChrisVannini/status/1493682791250288650?s=20&t=5Bozu0ECmQ3MUHWEukS5fQ