CFB51 College Football Fan Community
The Power Five => Big XII => Topic started by: Thumper on September 07, 2021, 12:16:29 PM
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The 2nd week has a couple of very interesting games.
Texas is a 6.5 pt favorite over Arkansas in Fayettenam. Great to see an old rivalry resumed. Relatives in Fayetteville and Ft Smith are saying the Hog fans are going crazy. Should be fun.
Iowa St is a 3.5 pt favorite over Iowa. Is Matt Campbell going to get his first win over the Hawkeyes?
TCU is a 9.5 pt favorite over Cal..
OSU is a 12.5 pt favorite over Tulsa.
KU is a 27.5 pt dog against Coastal.
OU has Western Carolina on a PPV game.
TT is playing SFA, going for win #2.
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OU has Western Carolina on a PPV game.
well, I hope they got the kickoff time they wanted
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Yeah I'll bet the hog fans are going crazy. They love to hate them some Texas.
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hog fans are ALWAYS crazy
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I've been to Fayettenam wearing burnt orange on a football gameday. It's like... well... nothing else in the world.
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Horns move up to #15, Sooners drop to #4, ISU drops to #9 in AP poll. OSU and TCU are just outside the top 25.
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OU has Western Carolina on a PPV game.
well, I hope they got the kickoff time they wanted
:86:
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I don’t have a good feeling about this CU game. I know they have not had a great team lately but we’ve lost some big games in Colorado through the years.
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It was close, Gigem, but it was a win.
UT looked very bad against the Razorbacks, especially on the offensive side of the ball.
ISU didn't look much better in their loss to Iowa. Turnovers were their problem.
Sooners romped against a completely outmatched WCU as they should. Can't really tell much except they were sharper on execution this time. Baylor and WVU both had easy victories as well.
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It was close, Gigem, but it was a win.
UT looked very bad against the Razorbacks, especially on the offensive side of the ball.
ISU didn't look much better in their loss to Iowa. Turnovers were their problem.
Sooners romped against a completely outmatched WCU as they should. Can't really tell much except they were sharper on execution this time. Baylor and WVU both had easy victories as well.
WVU had a real challenge. Not in beating the LIU-Post Sharks, but in figuring out who they were.
I wish that the Big 12 would adopt a policy banning games with FCS schools.
I wish the same for the SEC. Save us from ourselves.
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We’ve played better and lost. Fr QBs, inexperience in the OL. Looked like our defense was falling apart at first but they tightened up.
Not surprised at the Ark/ Tex game. They will be a tough out for us in two weeks.
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FCS teams are not different in my mind from lower G5 teams, any truly good P5 team will trounce either. I watched most of UGA-UAB yesterday, it was an unequal contest obviously, and had UAB been FCS, no difference really. It's interesting how often a highly ranked team can struggle with some lower G5 team.
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It was close, Gigem, but it was a win.
UT looked very bad against the Razorbacks, especially on the offensive side of the ball.
ISU didn't look much better in their loss to Iowa. Turnovers were their problem.
Sooners romped against a completely outmatched WCU as they should. Can't really tell much except they were sharper on execution this time. Baylor and WVU both had easy victories as well.
It was hard to tell which sucked worse, offense or defense. Sucking sucks.
Gonna be a long season for Texas. Gonna be a long 4 years until we fire this guy and hire the next poser.
Is it basketball season yet?
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I was trying to catch the UT/Arky game between breaks in the OU game so I didn't get a complete picture. It looked like Arky was just overrunning the Texas OL. Every time I saw a shot of Sarkisian, he was squatting on the sideline, not talking to coaches or players. Was he that way the whole game?
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I was trying to catch the UT/Arky game between breaks in the OU game so I didn't get a complete picture. It looked like Arky was just overrunning the Texas OL. Every time I saw a shot of Sarkisian, he was squatting on the sideline, not talking to coaches or players. Was he that way the whole game?
I don't know. I guess.
If all you saw was the pig DL overrunning the Texas OL, then you apparently missed the pig OL blowing the Texas DL off the ball by 7-8 yards on nearly every play. I mean, they got over 300 yards rushing I think.
This game was worse than any game in the Tom Herman era.
I think I'm done talking about it. I'm probably done talking about Texas football at all.
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The hogs did exactly what I said Id do if I played Texas
They put 8 in the box and shut down our rushing game and the Horns had no answer for it in the air
once again for the 2nd week in a row The Horns rushed almost twice as much as they passed
If we cant come up with a decent passing game we will see this result week after week
we need to be proactive with our passing attack not reactive
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It was a bad position to be in. New coach, new QB’s. New system. Playing at an old rival thirsty for success.
There have been lots of Saban assistants flame-outs in a lot of places. I think the mistake a lot of them make is they get used to working with supremely talented and disciplined players. Alabama right now is a well oiled machine and these coordinators are kinda plug and play.
The good news is that he’s been a hc previously and was successful. Sometimes a team just needs its butt kicked before it comes together.
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It was a bad position to be in. New coach, new QB’s. New system. Playing at an old rival thirsty for success.
There have been lots of Saban assistants flame-outs in a lot of places. I think the mistake a lot of them make is they get used to working with supremely talented and disciplined players. Alabama right now is a well oiled machine and these coordinators are kinda plug and play.
The good news is that he’s been a hc previously and was successful. Sometimes a team just needs its butt kicked before it comes together.
I agree
but as I previously said our play selection did not reflect the reality of the situation
why we chose to abandon our passing attack is beyond me
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I wish that the Big 12 would adopt a policy banning games with FCS schools.
I wish the same for the SEC. Save us from ourselves.
Bite your tongue, that might be the only win we get this season.
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It was hard to tell which sucked worse, offense or defense. Sucking sucks.
Gonna be a long season for Texas. Gonna be a long 4 years until we fire this guy and hire the next poser.
Is it basketball season yet?
This seems a bit premature.
I thought he had a nice tenure at UW and was a bit disappointed with his stint at USC, but overall I've felt bullish on his capacity as a HC. UT certainly has the resources and talent to maximize whatever he is. It's year 1, it could easily get better.
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Bite your tongue, that might be the only win we get this season.
Meanwhile Appalachian St took Miami to the wire and Toledo almost beat Norte Dame.
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Both UTs are struggling.
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FCS teams are not different in my mind from lower G5 teams, any truly good P5 team will trounce either. I watched most of UGA-UAB yesterday, it was an unequal contest obviously, and had UAB been FCS, no difference really. It's interesting how often a highly ranked team can struggle with some lower G5 team.
I sort of disagree.
Even a supposedly mediocre-or-worse G5 team, say, Tulane, can throw a scare into a supposedly great P5 team, say, #2-ranked Oklahoma.
Tulane came up a foot and a half short on a 4th and 13 from being in great position to beat OU late in the 4th quarter last week. Every OU fan I know concedes that they would not have bet on OU to hang on and win had Tulane converted on that play.
Few if any FCS teams are that much of a threat.
More examples--the service academy teams--even in down years--often throw scares into good P5 teams, and sometimes beat them.
Then there's Western Carolina vs. OU. That's a game that never should have been scheduled, IMO.
I don't think that a game with an FCS opponent should be considered on a P5 team's record. Just consider it a forfeit.
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Re the Arkansas' fans noted and virulent hatred for Texas, I saw this on a private OU board, from a guy who lives just north of OKC and whose daughter goes to OU.
My daughter was at the UT/Ark game. She finds the Ark fan base delusional. Said the crowd was fairly tame. And her parting comment was "former rival or not, this was no OU/TX atmosphere."
. . .
Daughter said the lack of "horns down" going on was appalling. She refused to wear a Hawg shirt so got one that said "beat Texas" instead.
Did Horn fans come back from that game with any similar comments?
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That's certainly not the impression I got watching it on TV. That place sounded loud, and Fayettenam can get raucous.
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I don't know. I guess.
If all you saw was the pig DL overrunning the Texas OL, then you apparently missed the pig OL blowing the Texas DL off the ball by 7-8 yards on nearly every play. I mean, they got over 300 yards rushing I think.
This game was worse than any game in the Tom Herman era.
I think I'm done talking about it. I'm probably done talking about Texas football at all.
Sorry you are so down about it, Utee. I expect the Horns will be 4-1 when the RRS rolls around.
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Both UTs are struggling.
I didn't think that Tennessee's hire of Josh Heupel was a very good move. Josh hadn't really proved himself as an HFC, and didn't think he'd fit into Knoxville culture very well either.
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Sorry you are so down about it, Utee. I expect the Horns will be 4-1 when the RRS rolls around.
There's the saying: You're not as good as you looked in your best game and you're not as bad as you looked in your worst game.
I too think the Horns will be 4-1 going into Dallas.
I hope that they are 4-2 leaving it.
In a previous life, my esposita had the occasion to live in Little Rock. In the early '80s it was.
She found it bizarre to see restaurants and stores filled with people wearing those red plastic pig hats.
It should be hilarious to be in the SEC with them.
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Regarding the FCS/FBS note earlier in the thread...
I was busy with tractor work most of the weekend (spread 10+ loads of dirt for a new barn build) so I didn't see this until this morning but FCS Jacksonville State knocked off FSU (yes, Florida State) on a "hail mary". I don't consider it a hail mary, thus the quotes, because it was more like a regular pass. FSU just blew the coverage and got lazy on the tackle/pursuit.
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The Texas defense held on as long as they could. 5 three-and-out drives by the Texas offense (out of 7 in the first half) left them gasping. Arky played heavy run, and that's a load to contain.
It'd be nice to have that miracle where all of a sudden last season's OL problems disappeared under a new OL coach, but the truth is OLs only get better when they face a defense that doesn't care if the star players get hurt. Practice just doesn't simulate the game.
Arky dared Hudson Card to beat them. He has the skills, but he lacked the guts. Not surprising, but he played tight when he needed to play fast. He was a first year QB making his first road start against a fanatical adversary, and it showed. Again, you can't simulate it. You just have to live through it.
One game doesn't make a trend either way, no matter how frustrating. Texas now sees its weaknesses. Rice won't tell us if they're fixed, but right now, they're a good opponent to continue the experiment.
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It should be hilarious to be in the SEC with them.
"Hilarious" is one word for it.
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The Texas defense held on as long as they could. 5 three-and-out drives by the Texas offense (out of 7 in the first half) left them gasping. Arky played heavy run, and that's a load to contain.
It'd be nice to have that miracle where all of a sudden last season's OL problems disappeared under a new OL coach, but the truth is OLs only get better when they face a defense that doesn't care if the star players get hurt. Practice just doesn't simulate the game.
Arky dared Hudson Card to beat them. He has the skills, but he lacked the guts. Not surprising, but he played tight when he needed to play fast. He was a first year QB making his first road start against a fanatical adversary, and it showed. Again, you can't simulate it. You just have to live through it.
One game doesn't make a trend either way, no matter how frustrating. Texas now sees its weaknesses. Rice won't tell us if they're fixed, but right now, they're a good opponent to continue the experiment.
actually its been two games and there is a trend
the trend is to run the ball even with 8 men in the box
I dont blame the QB but I do blame the play selection from the coaches
There was no real threat from the pass
is there anything wrong with passing on first down every now and then
Card is a much better passer then hes being given a chance to show
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protecting a young QB isn't the worst thing in football
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Forget Card. The question is why were UT's lines getting pushed around on both sides of the ball. Seems Texas recruits plenty well enough that Arkansas shouldn't be treating them that way. Something with the coaching is not yet clicking there, it will probably have to be the first thing to get right, no matter what Hudson is or isn't.
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Your OL problems can't be fixed in practice. The defense is friendly, and you've seen their tendencies. Only when facing an angry defense who don't care if your star players get hurt can you know where your OL is. Texas has had OL problems forever. They're improving, but still subpar.
Card just freaked. He's a 19 year old kid facing his first road game full of hostile fans. I understand why, but he freaked. Every play called has either a run or a pass component to it, depending on defensive alignments. He consistently misread the alignment, went to the wrong play, and gave the ball to the RB when a clear "keep" read was indicated.
He missed underneath route receivers constantly, leading to panic and sacks. Towards the end of his time, he flat out bricked three wide open TD receivers in a row.
I'm not condemning him at all. His position demands strong mental fortitude. Unlike the physical part (he has that nailed), the only way to earn mental toughness is to be placed in tough situations. Texas lost a football game because Card panicked. It happens. We've lost games before, often for less understandable reasons. However, he needs to internalize that experience and grow. Otherwise it just keeps happening.
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I'm not sure exactly how far you're going with your assertion. I don't buy that OL's can't become great prior to game time experience. I've seen way too many lines who come roaring out of the gate. And most teams tend to know what they have in their OL. It's more rare than not for a staff or even fanbase to say "Hmm, I really thought we would be better/worse than this." Again, I don't know if that's your assertion or not.
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The Texas defense held on as long as they could. 5 three-and-out drives by the Texas offense (out of 7 in the first half) left them gasping. Arky played heavy run, and that's a load to contain.
It'd be nice to have that miracle where all of a sudden last season's OL problems disappeared under a new OL coach, but the truth is OLs only get better when they face a defense that doesn't care if the star players get hurt. Practice just doesn't simulate the game.
Arky dared Hudson Card to beat them. He has the skills, but he lacked the guts. Not surprising, but he played tight when he needed to play fast. He was a first year QB making his first road start against a fanatical adversary, and it showed. Again, you can't simulate it. You just have to live through it.
One game doesn't make a trend either way, no matter how frustrating. Texas now sees its weaknesses. Rice won't tell us if they're fixed, but right now, they're a good opponent to continue the experiment.
I was just looking in on the "USC Fires Helton" thread on the Big Ten board. CincyDawg took the thread into a discussion of blue-blood programs that are "down" and the likelihood that they will come back.
One of the programs was Texas. The consensus of comments on Texas was that Texas still recruits at a high level, which should mean that it's just a matter of getting a good coach. Which reminded me of something I heard on the radio today.
Something interesting and hard to believe was put out on sports radio today by a blowhard named Jim Traber. He played QB (maybe just his freshman year) and 1B (for the whole time he was there) at Oklahoma State. He went on to play a few years with the Baltimore Orioles as Eddie Murray's backup, then finished his baseball career embarrassing himself and America in Japan. Since then, he has been in broadcasting.
His assertion: Texas has had three offensive linemen drafted since 2008, while Vanderbilt has had six offensive linemen drafted since 2008.
Can that be true? Surely it can't be true, can it? The Texas part, that is.
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looks right to me
https://247sports.com/Team/Texas-Longhorns-Football-43/DraftPicks/?year=alltime
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Thanks, 320.
That's really surprising. Surely that is related to the Horns' offensive struggles that began in the latter part of the Mack Brown era.
But is it a cause-effect relationship? And if it is, which is the cause and which is the effect?
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how many O-line coaches in that time, because the recruiting stars have been there
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how many O-line coaches in that time, because the recruiting stars have been there
3 different head coaches*
Maybe double that many different OCs.
And even more than that different o-line coaches.
But are you sure the "stars have been there" for o-line recruits? Overall Texas recruiting has still been decent, but has it been specifically at the o-line position? I'm asking because I have no idea, I don't follow that stuff. But I DO know we've had had some recent, major, widely publicized recruiting misses on legacy o-line talent that should have been a shoe-in for Texas, so I'm not so sure this is a correct statement regarding o-line stars.
Anyway, the stat doesn't surprise me. The last REALLY good o-line we had was 2006. Since then, it has ranged from below-average, to downright awful.
*(not counting Sark yet because he hasn't had a draft cycle of o-line he actually coached).
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I have to keep going back to the way the Mack era ended.
For all the good Mack did (and it was a ton of good), he and his staff ran out of gas several seasons before he left. Colt's brilliance papered over a lot, but the work ethic both from the coaches and consequently the players dropped several notches. I believe that, when TPTB nudged Mack out the door, they really though Nick Saban was on his way over. Not only was that not happening, but DeLoss Dodd rode off as well. For as annoying as the big boss can be, he really presided over the transformation of the Texas Athletic Department from a department at a University into a global brand.
I'm not sure how Steve Patterson ended up as the AD, but this was a pivotally poor decision. His specialty is cheap. He can theoretically help a cash strapped pro team survive lean years. This is NOT the Texas Athletics Department. You pay for experience, and Steve wasn't paying for anything. I'm a believer in Charlie Strong, and believe he was getting educated in how to be a head coach. His pedigree was defense, he didn't know offense, and Texas was buying him an education by losing football games.
I don't believe Herman was ever going to learn because he thought Urban Meyer taught him all he'd ever need to know. Like a poor dog trainer, he thought that if he just beat the animal harder, eventually it'd do things the right way. Kids already mad at losing Charlie Strong weren't playing that game.
After we lost Colt, Mack thought we should have Alabama's offense. Strong took it and thought we should have no offense. Herman wanted tOSU's offense.
I believe Texas has the perfect staff for its mission right now. I think what we saw last Saturday was largely on-field panic when things weren't working. Card was indecisive as only a 19 year old making his second start on the road against a historic rival could be. When things got ugly, the OL abandoned their drilling and reverted to 4 years of muscle memory - which was regrettably poor form and no real direction. They lack a field sergeant to grab their facemask and re-focus everyone's brain. One must emerge if Texas is to escape similar situations (and they'll come up).
No substitute for experience. Texas has good players and a fantastic staff. For the first time in a decade, everyone is pulling the same direction. You can't skip steps though.
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I looked back. It looks like A&M had 9 drafted during that time, and a couple of first rounders. Overall I'd say we've had some elite OL talent come through here over the last 10-12 years. We've also had some very good DL players in that time, including Von Miller and Myles Garret, who was the #1 pick.
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OL is evidently hard to evaluate. The Sooners have had numerous OLinemen drafted and quite a few were not rated at all because they didn't come to college as OLinement. A fairly recent example was Lane Johnson, currently the highest paid OT in the pros. He played QB(!) and TE in juco and came to OU as a TE. He couldn't make it there so they switched him to DL and then to OT. After a year playing RT and a year playing LT he became the fourth player selected in the NFL draft.
On the flip side they have had some 5* busts as well.
Sooner fans have learned to trust Bedenbaugh's evaluation far more than the recruiting sites.
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In any high school recruiting class, there will be 5 or so obviously ready OL players. Everyone can see them, everyone recruits them, and most of them just sign with Alabama and get on with it.
The rest of us have to learn to evaluate teenage male bodies (stop being creepy!). We're going to need to see 16-17 year olds and decide which ones have the height and frame to support a developing musculature. Nature hasn't imbued most of them with their adult muscle fibers yet, and the ones who have probably maxed themselves out at the gym. Those are the 300lb inflexible guys who will never get any bigger.
So yeah. We're needing to see who can put on "good weight" and not get slow. Who has the flexibility in the hips? Who has the motor? Trying to predict these things while wondering how nature will turn a 17 year old boy into a 22 year old man is the deep voodoo.
Everyone's a tackle, until they aren't.
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In any high school recruiting class, there will be 5 or so obviously ready OL players. Everyone can see them, everyone recruits them, and most of them just sign with Alabama and get on with it.
The rest of us have to learn to evaluate teenage male bodies (stop being creepy!). We're going to need to see 16-17 year olds and decide which ones have the height and frame to support a developing musculature. Nature hasn't imbued most of them with their adult muscle fibers yet, and the ones who have probably maxed themselves out at the gym. Those are the 300lb inflexible guys who will never get any bigger.
So yeah. We're needing to see who can put on "good weight" and not get slow. Who has the flexibility in the hips? Who has the motor? Trying to predict these things while wondering how nature will turn a 17 year old boy into a 22 year old man is the deep voodoo.
Everyone's a tackle, until they aren't.
Sure but this is true of all teams out there. And Texas does it consistently poorly, spanning over too many head coaches, OCs, and o-line coaches, to even name.
Other than "we're cursed" or Slick's infamous "Austin Malaise" is there any reason why Texas can't EVER have a good o-line? We've had a handful of good o-linemen over the past 15 years, but not one single good o-line.
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if you look at the details of our 2021 recruiting class which is ranked 15th
out of 23 recruits only 2 are OL
so maybe our recruiting emphasis is wrong
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I really don't feel like Texas has missed that badly on their OL evaluations. I think they come to Texas as highly regarded talented high school seniors, and they leave as highly talented high school seniors. The lack of growth, skills-wise, almost seems deliberate.
I feel like Strong and Herman sort of talked reluctant OL coaches into coming. Neither was able to communicate a cohesive plan for their offense. Ti be fair, Herman wanted tOSU's offense, but didn't have the pieces.
I think Flood and Sark are on the same page. I'm guessing the Arky game showed them that page was a little less filled in than they'd hoped. If Sark is the guy I think he is, we'll get closer to aligning skill sets with Casey Thompson.
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I looked at Alabama and out of 26 recruits they only have 2 OL as well
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I still think the big factor in the ark game was our lack of a passing attack
if you let me continually play 8 men in the box I can shut down any team in the country
our def was gassed which translated into massive rushing for ark
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Our OL is very much in flux. Not a solid unit yet, very inconsistent.
I’m very concerned for next week. Ark looks solid on both lines, oline and dline. Our Dline has played good so far. The talent is there, they are still growing into their positions.
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Our OL is very much in flux. Not a solid unit yet, very inconsistent.
I’m very concerned for next week. Ark looks solid on both lines, oline and dline. Our Dline has played good so far. The talent is there, they are still growing into their positions.
you guys better be able to pass the ball