CFB51 College Football Fan Community
The Power Five => Big Ten => Topic started by: 847badgerfan on August 14, 2021, 09:50:07 AM
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This could get interesting.
Big Ten, ACC, Pac-12 actively discussing alliance to counter SEC's growing power, per report - CBSSports.com (https://www.cbssports.com/college-football/news/big-ten-acc-pac-12-actively-discussing-alliance-to-counter-secs-growing-power-per-report/)
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A CFB topic? 😂
This could get VERY interesting. I feel like standing pat is not a good choice for these conferences. Looking forward to watching this play out.
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no Big 12?
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f-y1DCY1Akk
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From what I've read (you know, only radically-slanted leftist rubbish), it would just be a general scheduling thing.
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So I'm guessing it would have the goal of making sure each conference has full schedules and that the top programs always have a "big-boy" OOC team scheduled, for good optics. If they were smart about it, they'd mostly halt the ebb and flow of sometimes strong-sometimes weak schedules and make them more consistent.
Also, if they were really smart about it, they'd agree to schedule-share their underling teams as cannon-fodder for the other conference's power programs so that those teams get as many wins as possible.
I'd put teams into one of two pools: pool A (Clemson, OSU, Oregon, etc) who have 1 team from pool A scheduled every year and have 2 from pool B (the others) to maximize wins.
But this whole coalition could be something more. I'm just thinking out loud here.
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Seems like a relegation/promotion situation for scheduling purposes could work here
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We already have promotion and relegation. Teams move up from FCS after winning enough titles (Boise, Marshal, etc), teams move down from FBS if their situation gets untenable (Idaho), Conference realignment leaves certain teams in the dust (Rice) while promoting others that bring more to the table (Louisville). Entire conferences have been relegated (Ivy, WAC), others have moved up to D1 in unison (Big West).
Temple got "promoted" when the Big East was formed, then they got "relegated" when they were kicked out, and UConn was "promoted" to take their spot. Then the Owls got "promoted" again when the Big East was hemorrhaging members, then they got "relegated" again when the Big East lost their BCS status and became the American.
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I had thought this would be SEC and ACC, and then B1G and PAC, more alignment than consolidation.
It sounds like a P5 league really, two of them.
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Could the purpose be to "not schedule SEC teams," thus having the most interesting nonconference intersectional matchups while excluding the SEC from such matchups?
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Could the purpose be to "not schedule SEC teams," thus having the most interesting nonconference intersectional matchups while excluding the SEC from such matchups?
That's what I was thinking...
If we can just get the FCS to stop accepting SEC paycheck games, they'll have nobody left to play OOC except the B12... I'm sure Texas and Oklahoma will be happy about that :57:
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The ACC is going to want Rose Bowl access, while the Big Ten and PAC 12 are going to want to get in on the guaranteed games vs Notre Dame... Right?
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The ACC is going to want Rose Bowl access, while the Big Ten and PAC 12 are going to want to get in on the guaranteed games vs Notre Dame... Right?
Wouldn't that be great? Ohio State would be guaranteed it could play Notre Dame once every 29-years. I appreciate your sense of humor. I have no idea how bowls will work with a 12-team playoff. Personally, I am opposed to the 12-team playoff; that said I see it coming.
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Oops, my math was wrong. Each member of the alliance would be guaranteed one game against Notre Dame every 40-years.
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Oops, my math was wrong. Each member of the alliance would be guaranteed one game against Notre Dame every 40-years.
Not necessarily. They don't really have much history with the SEC, and most of the teams that they play a lot are in these other three Conferences. So it makes sense for them to be part of this alliance in some capacity, since they could do so without having to join a conference. So you'd work out some deal where they play nine games against teams from the Big Ten, Pac 12 and ACC, and zero games against teams from the SEC, which is basically what they do anyway. They'd have their "annuals" like USC, Stanford, Michigan, etc and they'd probably want to play teams like Clemson, Florida St, Miami, Michigan St, etc a lot.
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I think the in state rivalries would persist in any realignment, USCe-Clemson, FSU-UF, UK-Laville, etc. I'm not sure shutting someone else out is practicable or desirable.
Creating a strong product for media revenue would be the goal.
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I think the in state rivalries would persist in any realignment, USCe-Clemson, FSU-UF, UK-Laville, etc. I'm not sure shutting someone else out is practicable or desirable.
Creating a strong product for media revenue would be the goal.
I seem to remember that Kentucky has had to be practically forced to play L'ville. UK sees it as a lose-lose proposition. And someone on these boards opines that there's no particularly compelling reason for Georgia to play Georgia Tech.
If Oklahoma never plays Oklahoma State in football again, Sooner fans will not lament the loss. OU has won 81% of the 115 games played in that series, and the margin has only increased since Bob Stoops arrived in Norman. And FoSu--petty, small-minded, jealous--is not a good host. That school does everything possible to keep OU fans from attending the games in Stillwater. They would rather have 50,000 seats filled with no Sooner fans present, than their full-capacity 60,000 seats full with only the bare required minimum of visiting fans.
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Yeah, I don't want to play Tech any more, but I'm a minority. I think these games would persist, or most of them.
The ACC might eventually see a more natural "alliance" with the SEC as I first was musing. Maybe the SEC ends up with four 8 team "divisions" at the end of it, not really something I'm advocating, just a possibility.
It's all about the Benjies.
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Iowa / Iowa State is protected
for the Benjamins
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Iowa / Iowa State is protected
for the Benjamins
That would be, "too bad."
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Texas-Texas A&M just got pissy and quit.
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It could well be those three conferences are having conversations about options, which would be understandable, and the final "solution" will be something different, or perhaps they decide nothing is needed. The KStates of the world are the ones who should be scrambling.
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the 3 conferences band together to protect one or two of them being left out if the SEC keeps expanding
say the SEC and B1G go together to create a super league and the ACC gets left out only for Clemson, FSU, and the Irish to join the super league
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If you ponder what would happen if every P5 team left their conference and started over ....
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Texas-Texas A&M just got pissy and quit.
Well now it'll be back. Hopefully every year, but at worst, a couple of times every 4-5 years.
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If you ponder what would happen if every P5 team left their conference and started over ....
every P5 program could negotiate their own contract for media rights with the networks or content providers
set their own schedule to create suitable content
like Notre Dame
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I think conferences would reform, just based on geography and common interests. No WVU in the B12.
But it's hypothetical obviously. I sort of like the concept of two super"conferences" each with 4 8 team divisions.
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Nine: Combined Big Ten, ACC and Pac-12 teams — including Notre Dame, which caucuses with the ACC — ranked in the Associated Press Top 25 at the end of last season. And that was in a year when Group of Five programs, choosing not to wring their hands the way the Big Ten and Pac-12 did, enjoyed good years in the polls.
If The Athletic’s report about an alliance between the ACC, Pac-12 and Big Ten turns out to be something, then that’s quite a powerful scheduling setup.
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https://twitter.com/Andy_Staples/status/1427236338470985734?s=20
Granted some amount of this is a self-fulfilling prophesy, because the biggest fan bases also tend to get the better slots. So it's a chicken-egg thing. It's not surprise USC doesn't draw those kind of numbers, when half of their games are played at 10 PM on the east coast.
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https://twitter.com/Andy_Staples/status/1427236338470985734?s=20
Granted some amount of this is a self-fulfilling prophesy, because the biggest fan bases also tend to get the better slots. So it's a chicken-egg thing. It's not surprise USC doesn't draw those kind of numbers, when half of their games are played at 10 PM on the east coast.
Very revealing data.
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Missing from the list is Texas, who is apparently behind aTm, Michigan St, etc.
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Missing from the list is Texas, who is apparently behind aTm, Michigan St, etc.
I dont think we are too worried bout that
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comes from playing K-State, KU, TTech, Baylor, ISU
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Maybe that's the reason that they deleted the tweet.
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Very revealing data.
Very revealing, in that it's completely vanished? :)
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Very revealing, in that it's completely vanished? :)
utee fess up you did it didnt you
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utee fess up you did it didnt you
Ha!
If I had the power to delete the tweets of others, then twitter wouldn't exist at all.
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comes from playing K-State, KU, TTech, Baylor, ISU
now dont get me started Mr pot stirrer cause I dont want to have to post all the crap teams the huskers play
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like Ohio St, Michigan, michigan st?
you know... teams on the list
;)
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like Ohio St, Michigan, michigan st?
you know... teams on the list
;)
What list?
All I see is an Error 404: File Not Found
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like Ohio St, Michigan, michigan st?
you know... teams on the list
;)
nice try but I dont feel like working today
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Column: Why would the ACC. Big Ten, Pac-12 form an alliance?
https://apnews.com/article/sports-college-football-entertainment-alliance-college-sports-3de76274520065a5fb814ba311923295 (https://apnews.com/article/sports-college-football-entertainment-alliance-college-sports-3de76274520065a5fb814ba311923295)
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LhgGzzwXvMI
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This guy says that the B1G, Pac, ACC "Alliance" is about stopping the 12-team playoff.
If he's right, good! Let's go back to bowls and polls!
https://youtu.be/XnB77utgpMw (https://youtu.be/XnB77utgpMw)
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Amen brutha.
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There it is.
ACC, BIG TEN AND PAC-12 ANNOUNCE HISTORIC ALLIANCE - Big Ten Conference (https://bigten.org/news/2021/8/24/general-acc-big-ten-and-pac-12-announce-historic-alliance.aspx)
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It's a bit of an academic slam on the new SEC, justifiable generally.
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There it is.
ACC, BIG TEN AND PAC-12 ANNOUNCE HISTORIC ALLIANCE - Big Ten Conference (https://bigten.org/news/2021/8/24/general-acc-big-ten-and-pac-12-announce-historic-alliance.aspx)
They made an announcement.
Did they say anything? Didn't really look like it...
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Dave Wannstedt says he has heard of this discussion about realignment at Fox meetings:
(https://twitter.com/intent/tweet?ref_src=twsrc^tfw|twcamp^tweetembed|twterm^1430184732369772548|twgr^|twcon^s1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fthespun.com%2Fbig-12%2Fdave-wannstedt-shares-more-big-12-realignment-rumors&in_reply_to=1430184732369772548)(19) Dillon Davis on Twitter: "Fox Sports analyst and former Pitt football coach Dave Wannstedt went on @670TheScore in Chicago this morning and said he heard the following Big 12 news at the Fox meetings last week in Phoenix: - OSU and KSU to the Pac-12 - WVU to the ACC - KU and Iowa State to the Big Ten" / Twitter (https://twitter.com/dillondavis3/status/1430184732369772548?ref_src=twsrc^tfw|twcamp^tweetembed|twterm^1430184732369772548|twgr^|twcon^s1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fthespun.com%2Fbig-12%2Fdave-wannstedt-shares-more-big-12-realignment-rumors)
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So, if all that happens, the Big 12 dissolves. Then OU and UT don't have to pay anything. Correct?
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Why would the Pac 12 take KSU over Texas Tech?
I'm calling BS on that one.
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I am a total SEC homer but I try to be a rational SEC homer and I must say, this whole Alliance idea seems to be folks cutting off their noses to spite their faces. If this is about television eyeballs, why in the world would the Big 10 cut off the SEC for these other two? Maybe I am nuts but I think FOX would rather have OSU- Bama, UGA/ UT/ OU/ LSU/UF than almost any other matchup available, especially with how many tvs get turned on in the Southeast. But perhaps SEC teams cannot appear on FOX for some reason. I do not remember an SEC-Big 10 matchup on FOX. Anyhow, this will be interesting to see how this plays out.
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Hopefully it is a classic case of brawn vs brain where the SEC is playing Checkers while the "Alliance" is playing Chess.
While the SEC flexes and admires itself in the mirror, the brainiacs are devising some elaborate scheme to completely turn the tables on them.
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Hopefully it is a classic case of brawn vs brain where the SEC is playing Checkers while the "Alliance" is playing Chess.
While the SEC flexes and admires itself in the mirror, the brainiacs are devising some elaborate scheme to completely turn the tables on them.
Yeah, that's all fun and games until the wedgies start.
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I would not be at all certain that talk at Fox will consummate with a deal on realignment. That said, to some degree the networks seem to be in charge of realignment while the presidents and chancellors hold veto power over realignment teams.
ISU and KU being AAU members makes a difference to Big Ten presidents and chancellors.
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Yeah, that's all fun and games until the wedgies start.
While the brawn will win some battles, the brain typically wins the war.
The SEC just flexed and picked up something heavy in order to show off and look tough and everyone is impressed in the moment, but in the long run they are still a big dumb tough guy who is going to be completely out of his element once tactical strategies come into play.
They might find themselves as a glorified NFL Minor League, completely cut off from the CFB Universe.
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So, if all that happens, the Big 12 dissolves. Then OU and UT don't have to pay anything. Correct?
Yes, that's true. But I don't see all those moves happening. Maybe none of those moves, realistically.
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I read that twice and don't see anything of note.
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I read that twice and don't see anything of note.
It's a statement that "we" are a group of good people committed to all good causes.
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It's a statement that "we" are a group of good people committed to all good causes.
I submit the same about the posters here.
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I submit the same about the posters here.
Yes, but the subject is the ACC-B1G-Pac-12 Alliance, not the posters here.
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Understandable defensive move to undermine the power imbalance created by SEC/ESPN. While others may criticize this alliance as doing too little, I applaud the lack of panic (we don’t want to weaken the B1G brand with hasty decisions). A scheduling alliance is enough for now, and if it turns into something more positive, then great.
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So, if all that happens, the Big 12 dissolves. Then OU and UT don't have to pay anything. Correct?
I think the Alliance will string the B12 along just long enough to milk all they can from the 2 new SEC Teets.
Then cannibalize any parts wort salvaging.
I also think the Alliance will come up with Rules that will intentionally disqualify SEC teams from playing in their now; "we the good guys, who do all things for the betterment of the student, and are ambassadors for the purity of the game championship."
I'm sorry Alabama you signed 104 kids to scholarship over the last 4 years, where our rules clearly state you can only have 85. You are disqualified.
I'm sorry LSU you only played 8 conference games where our rules clearly say you must play 9. You are disqualified.
I'm sorry Auburn you played a division 2 team, our rules say you can't play any. You are disqualified.
I'm sorry Oklahoma, you're Oklahoma. You are disqualified.
Seven of the Top Ten teams in revenue reside in one conference, this is not good for the sport.
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I think the Alliance will string the B12 along just long enough to milk all they can from the 2 new SEC Teets.
Then cannibalize any parts wort salvaging.
I'm not sure what this means? The Alliance won't get anything from Texas or OU. The B12 will, but the B12 has been told with no uncertainty that it is not part of the Alliance.
Regardless, if the B12 doesn't dissolve, then OU and Texas will negotiate a buyout that's likely around 40% of the stated contractual penalty, same as every other team that's left one conference for another over the past 11 years, including 3 teams that departed their prior conferences to join the B1G during that time period.
Seven of the Top Ten teams in revenue reside in one conference, this is not good for the sport.
This I completely agree with. I wish things were different. But here we are.
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While the brawn will win some battles, the brain typically wins the war.
The SEC just flexed and picked up something heavy in order to show off and look tough and everyone is impressed in the moment, but in the long run they are still a big dumb tough guy who is going to be completely out of his element once tactical strategies come into play.
They might find themselves as a glorified NFL Minor League, completely cut off from the CFB Universe.
Jesus F-ing Christ
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Yes, that's true. But I don't see all those moves happening. Maybe none of those moves, realistically.
There is no incentive to dissolve the Big 8 before a cash settlement is made.
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Jesus F-ing Christ
Exhibit A
Thank you for proving my point.
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You're just laying it on a lil thick. This is about
1 - money
and
2 - football
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The end.
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There is no incentive to dissolve the Big 8 before a cash settlement is made.
If any of the remaining 8 were hot enough commodities to be dueled over by the B1G, PAC, or ACC, then they'd be poached immediately, before any settlement is finalized. The PAC is in the weakest position, they really could use a footprint that expanded into the Central time zone, and there are two or three B12 schools that draw better television numbers than every school in the PAC not named USC or Oregon.
Even so, I don't see it happening. It still likely wouldn't cause the PAC's media partners to increase the per-school payout, at most they'd break even with the additions, and the added logistical headaches would make it a net negative.
Texas and OU are prepared to pay the buyouts, otherwise they'd never have announced the change in conference affiliation. But honestly, when Texas and OU negotiate it down to maybe $40M each, that's $80M total, which is only $10M per remaining B12 school. That's really not a whole lot, $10M represents around 10% of ONE year of athletic budget for most of those remaining 8.
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Public entities put a lot of effort into PR, this to me looks like it's 99.9% PR.
There could be the "warm and fuzzy" Alliance of sorts, and the Real Man Football conference.
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Pete Thamel on Finebaum yesterday had a great quote. I am paraphrasing but he said this was the Seinfeld Alliance; an alliance about nothing. In the same show Finebaum quoted McBeth; "full of sound and fury, signifying nothing."
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Pete Thamel on Finebaum yesterday had a great quote. I am paraphrasing but he said this was the Seinfeld Alliance; an alliance about nothing. In the same show Finebaum quoted McBeth; "full of sound and fury, signifying nothing."
They may prove to be correct. I have no idea how this will play out.
The one little nugget I took from this is the specific part they spoke about putting a little halt on the proposed 12 team playoff because so many of the members of the alliance were not at the table for that conversation.
I am just spit bawling here and this may never happen, but if the alliance has influence over the playoff and actually has the power to stop it, then this will be a lot more than “nothing”
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I hope The Alliance stops the expansion, that would be awesome.
Maybe they can limit any future expansion to 8 teams only, with zero stupid byes.
It'd even better if they kill the playoff entirely and take us back to the era of Bowls 'n' Polls.
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That’s just it…. If they do separate on the playoff, all you would have left following it is the SEC.
Not sure how that would go….
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That’s just it…. If they do separate on the playoff, all you would have left following it is the SEC.
Not sure how that would go….
Fanboi message board talk isn't the same as real life. I'd be pretty surprised if the SEC "withdrew" from the current playoff, even if it's held up and limited to four teams.
Unless of course the SEC ultimately managed to poach the valuable properties from the ACC and PAC as well.
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Maybe they are planning to kill the B12 and make the playoff 4 teams, conference champs only...
That'll get the P12 on board since they can't seem to consistently field a worthy team otherwise...
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Maybe they are planning to kill the B12 and make the playoff 4 teams, conference champs only...
That'll get the P12 on board since they can't seem to consistently field a worthy team otherwise...
I think this would be a tough sell for the G5 since they were already being promised access to the expanded playoff. The anti-collusion anti-trust talks would fire up again. At that point, I think the only scenario left, would be an NCAA breakaway for the P4 conferences, in football at least.
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I think this would be a tough sell for the G5 since they were already being promised access to the expanded playoff. The anti-collusion anti-trust talks would fire up again. At that point, I think the only scenario left, would be an NCAA breakaway for the P4 conferences, in football at least.
The groundwork for this is already being laid. It's only a matter of time now.
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Maybe the SEC will form a counter alliance with the Big12. Snicker.
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I think this is more about a getting something of a consensus in the post-NIL era where the NCAA passes most rules & enforcement to the conferences. Per ESPN on July 15, 2021 "NCAA President Mark Emmert said Thursday the time is right to consider a decentralized and deregulated version of college sports, shifting power to conferences and campuses and reconsidering how schools are aligned.".
With the upcoming NCAA constitutional convention in November, this is a good time to start getting ideas in order.
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Pete Thamel on Finebaum yesterday had a great quote. I am paraphrasing but he said this was the Seinfeld Alliance; an alliance about nothing. In the same show Finebaum quoted McBeth; "full of sound and fury, signifying nothing."
There's also the possibility that they are keeping their cards close to the vest, instead of laying them out on the table.
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I think this would be a tough sell for the G5 since they were already being promised access to the expanded playoff. The anti-collusion anti-trust talks would fire up again. At that point, I think the only scenario left, would be an NCAA breakaway for the P4 conferences, in football at least.
They could potentially weasel out by making it the top ranked conference champions. That way if some obviously inferior conference champ (say a 3-loss winner of a weak P4 division who scores an upset in the CCG) is ranked lower than some undefeated G6 team, the G6 still has a potential entry point.
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If the SEC was playing Chess instead of Checkers, they'd respond to this by promptly poaching a pod from the ACC; Clemson, Florida St, UNC and Miami.
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https://twitter.com/apthirteen/status/1430229988700299267?s=19
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https://twitter.com/apthirteen/status/1430229988700299267?s=19
Classic!!!
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Maybe they are planning to kill the B12 and make the playoff 4 teams, conference champs only...
That'll get the P12 on board since they can't seem to consistently field a worthy team otherwise...
the SEC wouldn't go for it
only one team in a playoff?
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the SEC wouldn't go for it
only one team in a playoff?
Democracy is three sheep and a wolf voting on whether or not the wolf eats meat for dinner...
...or something like that.
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I think we just have to wait and see if this alliance is some paper doodling or something real when it comes to football.
If most of those Presidents are against the 12 team scheme, it wouldn't pass anyway.
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I'm not sure what this means? The Alliance won't get anything from Texas or OU. The B12 will, but the B12 has been told with no uncertainty that it is not part of the Alliance.
I responded to your comment that the Alliance would pick up pieces of the remaining B12, so Texas and OU wouldn't have to pay.
I was trying to say the Alliance would allow the B12 to remain intact until the settlement was made, and then pick up the pieces. So, correct the Alliance wouldn't directly get the money but those schools who are joining would get a check.
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if the B1G and/or the PAC don't find value in the remaining Big 12 programs, why would the alliance give them a hand?
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I responded to your comment that the Alliance would pick up pieces of the remaining B12, so Texas and OU wouldn't have to pay.
I was trying to say the Alliance would allow the B12 to remain intact until the settlement was made, and then pick up the pieces. So, correct the Alliance wouldn't directly get the money but those schools who are joining would get a check.
Gotcha.
I'm not sure why that would matter to the Alliance conferences, whether or not the remaining B12 schools picked up an extra $10M or so?
I think if the Alliance conferences see any value in any of the remaining B12 schools, then they'll be snatched up sooner rather than later. If not, then I don't see it happening two years from now, just so some schools can grab some exit money.
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not worth the effort to simply stick it to Texas and Oklahoma for a few bucks
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One day after the Alliance announcement:
https://www.espn.com/college-football/story/_/id/32090629/lsu-usc-open-2024-football-season-las-vegas
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not worth the effort to simply stick it to Texas and Oklahoma for a few bucks
I don't realistically see the PAC, ACC, or B1G picking up any of the remaining B12 teams. So the B12 will remain intact, probably adding some teams from G5, and Texas and OU will negotiate their buyouts down considerably, just like every other school that's left a conference in the past 11 years. And the Horns and the Sooners will be playing football in the SEC in the fall of 2022.
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2022?
So then 2021 is going to be Oklahoma's last chance to make the playoffs and Texas's last chance to finish bowl eligible for quite some time.
Do they do it?
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Texas does just fine against SEC teams, it's TCU and Maryland that the Horns struggle with.
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Texas does just fine against SEC teams, it's TCU and Maryland that the Horns struggle with.
A&M's already on the phone trying to convince the others how beneficial the Frogs n Terps would be....
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2022?
So then 2021 is going to be Oklahoma's last chance to make the playoffs and Texas's last chance to finish bowl eligible for quite some time.
Do they do it?
not Texas
we will stink up the joint for another year
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I tend to doubt he has inside info.
FOX Sports analyst Dave Wannstedt says several Big 12 teams on the verge of finding new conferences (saturdaydownsouth.com) (https://www.saturdaydownsouth.com/college-football/fox-sports-analyst-dave-wannstedt-says-several-big-12-teams-on-the-verge-of-finding-new-conferences/?fbclid=IwAR2m8PxJ2Ptv0FgzWiy2tZjRZdz5ywF6P4OeXMMkNBUOVChUeJlXipdFKyA)
several Big 12 schools are already making plans to join other conferences in the future. He said Oklahoma State and Kansas State will join the Pac-12, West Virginia will join the ACC and Kansas and Iowa State will join the Big Ten.