CFB51 College Football Fan Community
The Power Five => Big Ten => Topic started by: ELA on December 29, 2017, 12:49:50 AM
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Starting it off with the news that LJ Scott is returning for his senior year.
A bit surprised, and I always think RBs should go. Probably means MSU drops out of that group of like 5 schools to have a player chosen every year of the common draft, unless someone takes a late flier on Allen.
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Starting it off with the news that LJ Scott is returning for his senior year.
A bit surprised, and I always think RBs should go. Probably means MSU drops out of that group of like 5 schools to have a player chosen every year of the common draft, unless someone takes a late flier on Allen.
huge for MSU. Agree with you though, probably a mistake. He's got the proto-type size/speed combo for an NFL back. He'd have been a 2nd or 3rd. RBs in that boat should always go IMO. Risk of injury at that position is so high and there are only so many carries in a RBs body.
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Agreed. They'll take a slightly less talented guy with less wear and tear over a guy with an extra year of carries on his legs. Where it really hurts him is on that 2nd contract. I think he is a guy that has clear areas, like ball security and catching the ball where he can improve his draft stock, but hwne it comes to tailbacks, if you are a draft lock, even a mid round guy, I think you should go every time.
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If MSU has the season they are capable of next year, Coach D will pass Duffy for most MSU wins of all time. Insane. MSU fans are so lucky to be able to watch MD and Izzo at the same time.
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If MSU has the season they are capable of next year, Coach D will pass Duffy for most MSU wins of all time. Insane. MSU fans are so lucky to be able to watch MD and Izzo at the same time.
I think I saw he passed both Bo and Woody in bowl wins yesterday, and tied Carr.
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Messiah deWeaver announces he's transferring. Not really surprising the way QBs do this now. With Lewerke only one class ahead of him and winning the job as a sophomore, deWeaver wasn't going to become a starter until his RS senior season at best.
Does mean Lewerke better stay healthy next year because the 2014 kid flipped late, and now we lost our 2016 kid, so it's Lewerke, a RS freshman (Lombardi) and a true freshman (Day)
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Co-DC Harlan Barnett taking the DC job at FSU. Certainly a loss, but I think we'll be in good shape. I assume Tressel will be promo'd to full DC and we'll hire a DB coach.
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Co-DC Harlan Barnett taking the DC job at FSU. Certainly a loss, but I think we'll be in good shape. I assume Tressel will be promo'd to full DC and we'll hire a DB coach.
Yeah, mentioned it in the coaching changes thread. A pair of MSU alums make some sense, Renaldo Hill at Pitt, and Demetrice Martin, who wasn't retained at UCLA. Both are apparently great recruiters, less so on the Xs and OS side, but with Dantonio there, I worry about that part a lot less with a pure DB coach.
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Archie Collins name also coming to the forefront.
Makes a lot of sense. Played at MSU, was a grad assistant from 2010-12, coaching DBs under Barnett.
Has been coaching DBs at CMU, and was twice named top recruiter in the MAC by 247
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LOL, Hunter Rison transferring because, per his dad Andre Rison "he's too talented to be wasted as the #4 option"
So true freshman, no redshirt, solid playing time, #4 WR = wasting away on the bench
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Wow old man isn't helping the situation or his kids prospects.So now he sits a year which always bode's well for his chances at improvement.Yup Andre really showed them up,eh
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LOL, Hunter Rison transferring because, per his dad Andre Rison "he's too talented to be wasted as the #4 option"
So true freshman, no redshirt, solid playing time, #4 WR = wasting away on the bench
absolute lunacy and great example for poor parenting.
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LOL, Hunter Rison transferring because, per his dad Andre Rison "he's too talented to be wasted as the #4 option"
So true freshman, no redshirt, solid playing time, #4 WR = wasting away on the bench
Read the recap of Sr's interview and said to myself, "well, buh bye".
We don't need that nonsense.
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Going into next year I would say he would have been MSUs third beat WR behind Davis and White as a true sophomore. Not sure where he's going to find a better spot, considering he has to sit out a year.
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Sounds like Barnett may be bringing DE/ST coach Mark SNyder with him to Tallahassee as DL coach.
My thought? Please do!
There was some speculation it was DL coach Ron Burton who was possibly going, which I would very much not want to happen.
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Sounds like Barnett may be bringing DE/ST coach Mark SNyder with him to Tallahassee as DL coach.
My thought? Please do!
There was some speculation it was DL coach Ron Burton who was possibly going, which I would very much not want to happen.
Seriously? AWESOME. I'm very happy about this news.
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Trishton Jackson transferring too for PT, that one was assumed though. Barely played second half of the season, after exiting spring ball as the presumed top WR.
Still this increasing trend of guys bailing for PT reasons after one or two years has to make it hard to manage a roster.
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Damn Sparty getting eviscerated with transfers/dismissals the last two off seasons.Even if you have 1st string talent not enough left in the well for injuries
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Rison was unexpected and hurt. This kid wasn't seeing the field, had been passed by underclassmen, and had a bad case of the drops. I don't blame him or deWeaver. I'd like program kids to stick around too, but I can't fault them for wanting to play, and neither deWeaver or Jackson were going to play at MSU. I wouldn't be surprised to hear a couple more.
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True freshman DE Lashawn Paulino-Bell transferring.
Weird. Was an nearly unrecruited find, who blew up. There was some concern he'd flip to Nebraska, but didn't. Then injured himself jet skiing last summer. Asked MSU fans to contribute to his GoFundMe page to pay his medical bills, which the NCAA cleared as being ok. Wasn't medically cleared to travel to Michigan for the start of fall practice, although eventually joined. Was never going to be able to play this year after the injuries, so he redshirted. Then got in some sort of internal trouble, and wasn't allowed to travel to the bowl game. Now leaving. A lot of news for a one year MSU career where he never saw the field.
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Some good news, MSU has hired fired Kent State head coach Paul Haynes to replace Harlon Barnett as DB coach. He was Tressell's DB coach from 2005-2010, and then became DC in 2011 when Fickell became HC. He left after the year, and was DC at Arkansas for 2012 before getting the head coaching job at Kent State.
Still two positions to fill, being Snyder's vacancy when he followed Barnett to FSU, and the new 10th position.
Sounds like the most likely scenario involves the return of Don Treadwell, and the hiring of CMU assistant Archie Collins.
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The also confirmed Mike Tressel is the sole DC now
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This Larry Nassar thing is really crazy. I hadn't realized the full terrible impact he had, but they have over a hundred girls now talking about what he did to them. Off topic, except that some blowback is hitting MSU and there are calls for the president to resign. I have not not followed this story that closely, so I'm not sure what is appropriate, but it is a story.
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This Larry Nassar thing is really crazy. I hadn't realized the full terrible impact he had, but they have over a hundred girls now talking about what he did to them. Off topic, except that some blowback is hitting MSU and there are calls for the president to resign. I have not not followed this story that closely, so I'm not sure what is appropriate, but it is a story.
She needs to go, and the Board of Trustees should all be voted out for supporting her.
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LOL, Hunter Rison transferring because, per his dad Andre Rison "he's too talented to be wasted as the #4 option"
So true freshman, no redshirt, solid playing time, #4 WR = wasting away on the bench
Transferring to Kansas State. Does any P5 school except Georgia Tech throw the ball less? He might get more targets as the 4th option at MSU than the #1 option at KSU.
Oh well, good luck to the kid. Hope he rises above his dad.
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(https://cdn.vox-cdn.com/uploads/chorus_asset/file/8260661/Screen_Shot_2017_03_31_at_2.07.45_PM.png)
Outside of the road game @ Penn St, this actually shapes up to be a pretty favorable schedule for the Spartans.
Other than the whole no Notre Dame thing.
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Transferring to Kansas State. Does any P5 school except Georgia Tech throw the ball less? He might get more targets as the 4th option at MSU than the #1 option at KSU.
Oh well, good luck to the kid. Hope he rises above his dad.
GT, Georgia, Minnesota, Arizona, Oregon, Wisconsin, Miss State.
Granted, that's raw throwing, not adjusted for situation. On non-passing downs, they are eighth in run rate, so in the cluster of run spreads outside the five true option schools (Military schools, GT, NM State). They're 46th in how often they throw in passing spots
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GT, Georgia, Minnesota, Arizona, Oregon, Wisconsin, Miss State.
Granted, that's raw throwing, not adjusted for situation. On non-passing downs, they are eighth in run rate, so in the cluster of run spreads outside the five true option schools (Military schools, GT, NM State). They're 46th in how often they throw in passing spots
That is actually more than I would have thought anecdotally. I guess perhaps adjusted for expected Big XII pass rate it feels lower.
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That is actually more than I would have thought anecdotally. I guess perhaps adjusted for expected Big XII pass rate it feels lower.
Shoot, that should be how often they run in throwing spots. I was surprised too. I think its because even when they throw, it feels like it's a tailback doing it after faking a run.
Some of their top receivers have solid target numbers, but it tends to be clustered on one or two. Being the No. 3 wideout there doesn't get you much work.
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Some good news, MSU has hired fired Kent State head coach Paul Haynes to replace Harlon Barnett as DB coach. He was Tressell's DB coach from 2005-2010, and then became DC in 2011 when Fickell became HC. He left after the year, and was DC at Arkansas for 2012 before getting the head coaching job at Kent State.
Still two positions to fill, being Snyder's vacancy when he followed Barnett to FSU, and the new 10th position.
Sounds like the most likely scenario involves the return of Don Treadwell, and the hiring of CMU assistant Archie Collins.
Treadwell confirmed. Sounds like he's the 10th coach. Will handle ST, and also be the "freshman" coach, in charge of helping the new kids acclimate to the team.
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Ugh, and Chuck Bullough to round out the staff?
He's certainly qualified to simply be a DE coach, he's been DC at both UCLA and Syracuse, and a ton of time as an NFL position coach, but I liked the talk of some fresher blood, like Archie Collins from CMU. Treadwell OR Bullough? Sure. Both? No thanks
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Very disappointed Collins didn't get a spot. Maybe he will when Duzzi is coach.
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Hmmm, per reports, both OL coach Mark Staten and QB coach Brad Salem were offered jobs at other schools, and declined to stay at MSU.
So we are at 4 of 9 assistants offered jobs elsewhere this season (2 left, 2 stayed), while last year MSU fans were outraged that Dantonio kept his entire staff.
Funny how that works.
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I'll post this here instead...
I wonder how long we have now on Dantonio or Izzo. Both are in their 60s, both are now facing the prospects of a new boss. Obviously neither was going to be replaceable, but I thought both had elevated the attractiveness of the job far above where they were when they were hired. With Hollis leading the search I trusted that it would probably go ok. Not even slightly sure anymore. You'll have a new face in charge, and you have a lot of negative stigma. A lot depends on how much either wants to keep going. 4-5 years from now, this could be old news as far as MSU's rep. If this hire is a year from now? Yikes. Don't forget the absolute train wreck MSU athletics was for basically 20 years before Hollis came in 2007. The only thing they got right was promoting Izzo from within, and that was more luck than anything. How many high major programs promote from within anymore? Particularly the late 80s/early 90s was an absolute power grab cluster.
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RS frosh OLB Darien Clemons transferring
Was the first defensive player to commit to the 2017 class, but never had any other interest from non-MAC teams. He tore his ACL his senior year, and it's unclear how well he bounced back from that. But he missed 2016 with an ACL injury, 2017 redshirting. My guess is he goes FCS, otherwise he's sitting out 2018 too, and I can't imagine much FBS interest anyway.
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Woo hoo, got some football news. Position changes, but I'll take it.
Emmanuel Flowers moved from CB to WR and Austin Andrews from CB to RB.
Both redshirted as freshmen last year, RB depth is woefully thin, so all bodies needed there. CB has quickly become the deepest position on the team with probably my favorite group of CBs (at the time of commitment) that Dantonio has ever brought in coming in in the fall.
Mufi Hill-Hunt, coming off his second bad knee injury is up over 300 lbs and is going to move inside. That's not so much a move of need, as I'm wondering how much of that weight gain is desired, and now you have a big kid, coming off two knee surgeries, carrying a lot of extra weight. I'd be surprised if he really gets much PT going forward, he seems more likely to retire than to contribute.
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Jalen Watts-Jackson confirms that he is seeking a grad transfer. Oddly, the play that he will always be famous for, ended with him fracturing his hip, missing a year, and never really able to become a contributor again. He'll never have to buy a drink in East Lansing for as long as he lives though.
(https://www.cfb51.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.dailymail.co.uk%2Fi%2Fpix%2F2015%2F10%2F18%2F01%2F2D83FCEB00000578-0-image-a-26_1445128826609.jpg&hash=a948d933ae680c99aafef1eaaa72b1bc)
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Justice Alexander, who I thought was the most underrated recruit MSU signed that class, but hasn't really emerged, seems to be having himself a big spring. Finally.
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So a Spring Game in below freezing temps, should be well attended.
But for good measure, the main route into EL from SE MI, I-96, is completely closed indefinitely due to an accident.
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My Sparty spring game take aways:
Returning 19/22 starters.
LeWerke looked mid-season form
Will contend for Big Ten championship.
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Depth is still a major issue. They had terrible injury luck in 2015 and 2016. Last year they were about as fortunate as it gets when it comes to injuries. They stay healthy, they should be contending. But if injuries creep in, as those things tend to even out, they could unravel quickly.
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Seems to me MSU will be a great team if it can stay healthy.
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just beat Harbaugh, Again!
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Seems to me MSU will be a great team if it can stay healthy.
I agree. Obviously every team is worse with injuries, but MSUs depth due to attrition makes it's two deep nowhere near the other Big Ten title hopefuls.
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Wow, sounds like Jon Reschke might be returning? Hmm, not sure how I feel about that one.
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Keonta Stallworth transferring. Was a big OL recruit who moved to DT, and only played in 7 games in 3 years. He still wasn't in the two deep this year, but at some point all of these depth hits are going to hurt. They better avoid the injury bug again.
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(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DgqkvceV4AAl9MU.jpg)
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Ok?
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Jalen Watts-Jackson confirms that he is seeking a grad transfer. Oddly, the play that he will always be famous for, ended with him fracturing his hip, missing a year, and never really able to become a contributor again. He'll never have to buy a drink in East Lansing for as long as he lives though.
(https://www.cfb51.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.dailymail.co.uk%2Fi%2Fpix%2F2015%2F10%2F18%2F01%2F2D83FCEB00000578-0-image-a-26_1445128826609.jpg&hash=a948d933ae680c99aafef1eaaa72b1bc)
Injury was so bad he actually wound up deciding not to seek a grad transfer, but did graduate, and is retiring from football.
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MSU promotes Beekman from interim to permanent AD. No prior experience in athletics.
I'm guessing they know no candidate they actually want will touch the job right now, so go with the safe internal pick of a guy who wasn't actually in the athletic department. Try and navigate the mess of the next couple years, which really isn't a "sports" issue, as much as an administrative issue. Then try and make your real hire in a couple years.
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This hire tells me that the MSU brass feels that neither Dantonio or Izzo are going anywhere for a few years.
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This hire tells me that the MSU brass feels that neither Dantonio or Izzo are going anywhere for a few years.
Dantonio seems fine, I think he'll go on his own terms. But I think he's got at least 3 years in him. Izzo? I wouldn't be so sure
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This hire tells me that the MSU brass feels that neither Dantonio or Izzo are going anywhere for a few years.
This hire tells me that MSU is still handling things in-house because it won't tolerate an outsider to have administrative say while they continue their multiyear navigation away from these scandals.
He may well be a good guy (this one, I hadn't heard of, so I don't have much to say about him specifically), but "business-as-usual" - even symbolically - remains a worst-case strategy for healing a broken an untrusting community. Hire someone who is unbeholden fercrissakes.
Having said that, I do have to acknowledge that the "great candidate" pool must be shallow. This comment is therefore less about this specific hire than about this consistent pattern since the scandal broke, higher-ups started losing their jobs and empty administrative positions needed filling. I mean ... zero outsiders of import (perhaps zero outsiders, absolutely) have been hired throughout. That's terrible stewardship.
And I expect the BOT will feel it in November.
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And I expect the BOT will feel it in November.
I certainly hope so. The method of electing these people in Michigan makes no sense, making it part of the general election. MSU alums (until now) only barely cared, and that goes for all state institutions. Non-alums cared even less. So simply being a familiar name was usually enough. I think that is going to go in the complete opposite direction this time.
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It's too bad that only two of eight can be replaced (and neither is running...and neither is Ferguson). Still, I do believe there'll be a shake-up of minds. Is Amanda Thomashow still considering running? She'd probably get one of my votes.
Honestly, despite the fact it would have been unprecedented, I kind of expected the Governor to step in and force a house cleaning. For however unprecedented, it'd have been fully deserved.
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It's too bad that only two of eight can be replaced (and neither is running...and neither is Ferguson). Still, I do believe there'll be a shake-up of minds. Is Amanda Thomashow still considering running? She'd probably get one of my votes.
Honestly, despite the fact it would have been unprecedented, I kind of expected the Governor to step in and force a house cleaning. For however unprecedented, it'd have been fully deserved.
With how totally Snyder butchered the Flint water crisis, I'm guessing he doesn't want to step into anything else on his way out the door.
The AG who appointed the special prosecutor is running for governor though, so there is a tangled web there, even though he is not running the investigation himself.
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Apparently Reschke is back on the roster but will not be on scholarship. He also suffered an off the field injury (rumored to be an ACL tear) during the offseason, so who knows if he'll even play.
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Also RS Freshman WR Julian Major left school in the middle of the spring semester because he was homesick. He's trying to rejoin now, but he may not academically qualify due to going home.
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All of the 2018 signees are cleared and admitted.
Also learned they added a transfer, TE Jonathan Brys from New Mexico, who is from Michigan, went to New Mexico, was all-academic team, but they were attempting to convert him into an OL, but seems like he's walking on to play TE at MSU.
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Apparently Reschke is back on the roster but will not be on scholarship. He also suffered an off the field injury (rumored to be an ACL tear) during the offseason, so who knows if he'll even play.
What's the upside?
I don't even recall Reschke denying the story that got him booted during that one year when the team in-fighting ran deep.
Why risk a second helping of that recipe for a guy who may not be in playing shape or medically cleared?
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What's the upside?
I don't even recall Reschke denying the story that got him booted during that one year when the team in-fighting ran deep.
Why risk a second helping of that recipe for a guy who may not be in playing shape or medically cleared?
The players themselves wanted him back. It went to a team vote and it was 100% unanimous. I agree there is not much upside but I also dont think there is much downside either. Id bet its gonna be more of a story then have any effect on the football field either way.
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Teams aren't democracies. They tend to vote the way they think their coach wants.
I do agree it's unlikely to matter. My larger point was that if your casino installs a high downside/low upside game, you probably shouldn't waste your dollar.
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Teams aren't democracies. They tend to vote the way they think their coach wants.
I do agree it's unlikely to matter. My larger point was that if your casino installs a high downside/low upside game, you probably shouldn't waste your dollar.
I'm the exact opposite on this comparison. If I felt like he was going to help, I'd be more nervous about it, a coach making an excuse for an elite player. As is, he likely won't, so why risk it? Unless you don't believe there is a risk. I'll take the players at their word. The black players who said they continued to hang out with him after he left the team and that it was out of character, and he was caught in the heat of the moment.
But alas, such was the state of 2016 MSU football where the "good guys" were simply the guys who slept with their teammates' girlfriends. On the whole, it makes me nervous, but I'm not going to pretend to know more than the players who hang out with him, and the fact that he's likely a non-factor on the field aids me in that belief.
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And also lete re-emphasize the difference between what I would do vs. whether I have an issue with the decision they made.
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FWIW, I don't have a problem with the decision, either. I wasn't trying to be moralistic. I'm just surprised, figured it wasn't worth it.
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CB Tyson Smith (who came back from a stroke during the 2016 season to play last season) had a medical setback, and is not going to play this year. If you are 20 and have had a stroke, with lasting impacts two years later, I think it might be time to move onto the non-football chapter of your life. Just my 2 cents.
He was certainly in the two deep, and figured to see the field plenty, so while not a starter, it's a depth ding for sure.
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CB Tyson Smith (who came back from a stroke during the 2016 season to play last season) had a medical setback, and is not going to play this year. If you are 20 and have had a stroke, with lasting impacts two years later, I think it might be time to move onto the non-football chapter of your life. Just my 2 cents.
He was certainly in the two deep, and figured to see the field plenty, so while not a starter, it's a depth ding for sure.
yeah he should probably retire. You see more and more guys retiring young bc of injury and that's a good thing imo. The LB'er from Seattle just retired at 24 because he had his 6th concussion in the last few years. Smart kid. That game takes a huge toll on the body. Football lasts for a few years if you're lucky, then they have the rest of their lives to live. Who wants to be in a wheelchair at 55 because they can barely walk and/or have severe CTE?
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CB Tyson Smith (who came back from a stroke during the 2016 season to play last season) had a medical setback, and is not going to play this year. If you are 20 and have had a stroke, with lasting impacts two years later, I think it might be time to move onto the non-football chapter of your life. Just my 2 cents.
He was certainly in the two deep, and figured to see the field plenty, so while not a starter, it's a depth ding for sure.
Released a Twitter statement that he is done playing football, and will remain with the team as a student assistant while finishing his degree.
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Sophomore CB Josiah Scott, MSU's best CB, and 2nd team preseason All-Big Ten in a few mags, with an injury in practice, out at least two months.
I said all offseason that a major part of MSU's surprise 2017 was how healthy they stayed, and how poorly equipped they were to deal with injuries than most teams ranked like they are. Secondary taking major blows now without the #1 and #4 CBs already for an extended period of time (one career ending)
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Dillon Alexander, in the two deep at defensive end, also down with a serious injury.
Please just end fall camp now?
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That absolutely sucks about Scott, and that injury especially doesn't bode well for Sparty's matchup in Tempe as by far the best player on ASU is WR N'Keal Harry, he may in fact be the best WR MSU sees all season.
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That absolutely sucks about Scott, and that injury especially doesn't bode well for Sparty's matchup in Tempe as by far the best player on ASU is WR N'Keal Harry, he may in fact be the best WR MSU sees all season.
Already hated that game, really really nervous now
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Oof - That's a tough week. The news about Scott is the biggest as he's the most talented corner (by far?) and the unit is still shallow. He would be a big loss for any games, but I still wouldn't expect them to lose to Arizona State, IU, or Northwestern. Two of those are away games, though (@ASU, @IU) and the Big Ten has a bad history of PAC games played on the west coast, so I may be underestimating.
Still, I think they'll come out unscathed. To me, the bigger concern is whether 2 months is enough recovery time for JS to return at or above his playing level from 2017.
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I'm surprised this didn't make more noise when the Reschke reinstatement happened. That's a former Maryland linebacker going out of his way to allege MSU's offensive line was infamous for using the same epithet.
Oof.
https://mobile.twitter.com/jerma1necarter/status/1021850405964316672
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Generally unverifiable accusations don't. When Taylor Lewan was accused of the same, even with his reputation, it got zero traction also.
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The outrage against Lewan kept landing and this accusation definitely added to our embarrassment. My point was that this accusation from Carter, even if not falsifiable, is still credible and raises a fair question of culture ("would fit a pattern"). And yet it never landed.
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The outrage against Lewan kept landing and this accusation definitely added to our embarrassment. My point was that this accusation from Carter, even if not falsifiable, is still credible and raises a fair question of culture ("would fit a pattern"). And yet it never landed.
Probably because not one other player, teammate or otherwise, supported his take. Ask Brandon Phillips how that goes.
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I didn't see the article where reporters asked other Maryland players and they all said "The MSU OL(?), oh no, definitely not."
My understanding was that this received neither shock nor follow-up.
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I didn't see the article where reporters asked other Maryland players and they all said "The MSU OL(?), oh no, definitely not."
My understanding was that this received neither shock nor follow-up.
They all follow each other, and not a single teammate or fellow MSU opponent touched it.
And you don't know who asked who what. It was very known when he did it. If you ask around, and nobody else is willing to corroborate, what's the story? Are you simply mad that some journalists didn't just decide to regurgitate the same tweet to a wider audience?
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(1) Only one guy volunteered it. I never avoided the possibility that he's incorrect. But I'm unaware of any bad blood with Carter to infer an ulterior motive. Likelier: he either misheard or is correct. The comment is credible.
(2) Mad? A potential for an ugly cultural pattern at a P5 school arises in the middle of multiple scandals across multiple sports and isn't pushed. There's no need for an attitude about that. It's "flatly surprising," full stop.
(3) You can't say "Dave, you don't know who asked who what..." and then two sentences later imply that after they asked around, there was no story. We don't know whether *anyone* bothered to ask around. Not all stories become published as stories.
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(1) Only one guy volunteered it. I never avoided the possibility that he's incorrect. But I'm unaware of any bad blood with Carter to infer an ulterior motive. Likelier: he either misheard or is correct. The comment is credible.
(2) Mad? A potential for an ugly cultural pattern at a P5 school arises in the middle of multiple scandals across multiple sports and isn't pushed. There's no need for an attitude about that. It's "flatly surprising," full stop.
(3) You can't say "Dave, you don't know who asked who what..." and then two sentences later imply that after they asked around, there was no story. We don't know whether *anyone* bothered to ask around. Not all stories become published as stories.
I'm not saying he did or didn't hear it. I'm saying one guy making an accusation, and exactly zero of the hundreds of others who would have heard the same if they were "famous" for something corroborating it is generally not a story. These things become stories, absent actual evidence, when you have multiple reports. The fact that anyone would want otherwise is terrifying to me.
Amd no, I don't know if there was follow up. I do know that it was a known Tweet at the time. I do know that ESPN is posted up in East Lansing enough to break their own internal "journalism" rules to identify a walk on accused, and ultimately not charged, with grabbing a girl's butt, and yet they just decided to do nothing with this? That would shock me.
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I'm saying maybe. Because the reasonable interpretation you miss is that perhaps only one guy (Carter) was willing to volunteer this detail but others may have joined if either (1) asked directly [willing to answer by name but not volunteer] or (2) offered anonymity [willing to corroborate but neither volunteer nor publish their name].
And we don't know in any event if anyone was asked by a diligent reporter.
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I'm saying maybe. Because the reasonable interpretation you miss is that perhaps only one guy (Carter) was willing to volunteer this detail but others may have joined if either (1) asked directly [willing to answer by name but not volunteer] or (2) offered anonymity [willing to corroborate but neither volunteer nor publish their name].
And we don't know in any event if anyone was asked by a diligent reporter.
No, I don't know. But like I said, ESPN is entrenched, and already proven to violate their own rules to keep their story alive, and the Tweet was known. Based on their behavior it would be more surprising for them not to follow up.
I would find it equally surprising that not one single other player, out of the hundreds that would have been on the receving end if they were famous for it, would put their name on it. Not even to like his Tweet. Humorously, but not unsurprisingly, about 90% of the people that did like his Tweet, have UM fan in their Twitter bio.
We're you just as mad that nobody dug into Jabrill Peppers was running around giving everyone in Ann Arbor chlamydia? Or did you write that off as one uncorroborated, unprovable account?
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They discovered true freshman LB Chase Kline has been playing with a torn labrum for over a year and will have surgery and miss the season. He was going to redshirt anyway, but it sucks that it wasn't discovered until now and he won't get his practice reps.
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We're you just as mad that nobody dug into Jabrill Peppers was running around giving everyone in Ann Arbor chlamydia? Or did you write that off as one uncorroborated, unprovable account?
Even if verified - Why would any fan on either side care about those rumors? Apples to orangutans.
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Even if verified - Why would any fan on either side care about those rumors? Apples to orangutans.
I mean, it's a crime, but ok, who cares?
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If having a sexual partner get Chlamydia is a crime, then I'm a medical doctor who had no idea. Also it's whataboutism.
To me it is National Enquirer nothingness. The same as a president who has an extramarital affair. Even if he lies, I don't know why to care.
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If having a sexual partner get Chlamydia is a crime, then I'm a medical doctor who had no idea. Also it's whataboutism.
To me it is National Enquirer nothingness. The same as a president who has an extramarital affair. Even if he lies, I don't know why to care.
If you have chlamydia and dont disclose that to a parter, that is reckless endangerment, would could expose you to being charged with a felony. I can't speak to Michigan's laws, and I'm sure it's rare, but his accuser claimed that it was a felony in Michigan.
Again, my only point is that never even came up on these boards, because generally our level of discourse here is above rumor mongering of one uncorroborated accuser without proof, even when the accusation is an actual crime...generally.
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It came up on the boards. Mostly MSU boards but yes on the Michigan boards. But absent evidence of the happening and the knowledge, it's not worth caring about. What am I caring about? That maybe someone got Chlamydia but maybe not and maybe it was from the player but maybe not and maybe he knew but maybe not and ... feelings, man? It's so beneath us.
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It came up on the boards. Mostly MSU boards but yes on the Michigan boards. But absent evidence of the happening and the knowledge, it's not worth caring about. What am I caring about? That maybe someone got Chlamydia but maybe not and maybe it was from the player but maybe not and maybe he knew but maybe not and ... feelings, man? It's so beneath us.
That a player committed a crime is not relevant? ThYs your stance I guess, not mine.
I do think dabbling in uncorroborated rumor mongoring os below us, or at least used to be. Which is why it never came up here.
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It requires three to nine maybes to call it a crime. Does the public record have info to definitively get beyond even one of those maybes? If not, it's NatEnquirer-level nothing unless it further develops.
My main intent by calling it beneath us was that you had a better way to change the topic than "What about Peppers maybe having penis bacteria?"
By maintaining your disagreement about a potential N-word cultural pattern and simply waiting until the next news item, for example.
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It requires three to nine maybes to call it a crime. Do the public record have info to definitively get beyond even one of those maybes? If not, it's NatEnquirer-level nothing unless it further develops.
My main intent by calling it beneath us was that you had a better way to change the topic than "What about Peppers maybe having penis bacteria?"
By maintaining your disagreement about a potential N-word cultural pattern and simply waiting until the next news item, for example.
The point had nothing to do with what Peppers did or didn't have.
It was that we typically don't dive into rumor mongering. Peppers was accused of a crime. The nature of the accusation left a lot to be desired. The team boards went there. They live in rumor wasteland. We didn't, maybe you want this place to be a lot more like those. Seemingly yes. Here, we have a lone accuser. Again making an accusation in a manner that left a lot to be desired. The team boards went there, we hadn't. But, again, no teammates, no fellow MSU opponents openly corroborated. The nature of ESPN seeking out MSU Dort right now, that the Tweet would be out there without them following up would be a shocking revelation. So again, what do you want? Outrage? Go to the team boards where people like to thinly veil rooting interests under dogoodery. The fact that the majority of likes that Tweet got were from UM fans, and that it was a UM fan that tried to use it to stir the pot here is entirely unsurprising to me too.
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MSU and Oregon with another home and home. Set for 2029 and 2030
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Sounds like the two most pleasant surprises of camp are a pair of RS freshmen on defense, DE Jack Camper and CB Shakur Brown.
Camper was recruited by everyone as TE, but played his Junior year at IMG at DE, because the nation's #1 TE recruit was ahead of him. Moved back to TE, committed to MSU, practiced there last year, but got reps both ways. Moved to DE and is in the mix with Jacob Panasiuk to start opposite Willekes. TE is a position of need, so moving him away to DE alone is telling.
With Smith's retirement due to strokes, and Scott's injury, Brown has put himself neck and neck with Josh Butler, the presumed next man up, to start at corner opposite Layne.
The mystery of summer ball is the absence of presumed starting LB Antjuan Simmons, who hasn't even been seen in pads, but with no injury announcement. Tyriq Thompson, who has always been extremely underwhelming, has been getting all of his reps.
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Sigh. It's a small story but reminds us how openness and healing were never even on Engler's or the BoT's radar of interests.
https://www.freep.com/story/news/local/michigan/2018/08/15/msu-alumni-mag-focuses-positives/987621002/
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I think it's pretty well established that Engler was just brought in the deal with the State House, and to handle the legal issues.
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Established outside of the community? Of course. But inside the community, beginning with his initial address as president, the focus was about healing and transparency. I'm lamenting the extent to which that was just a ruse.
It's beating a dead horse, I guess. But that horse was an all-time ass and it feels too soon to move on.
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Nobody knew what the scope of the lawsuits was going to be, and certain state reps were talking defunding the university as a whole. You have to say the right things, but ultimately simply surviving as an institution was the only goal at that point. So you bring in a guy who has Lansing connections, and can quiet threats on that front, and can push through the lawsuits, then once you've ensured your own survival, you can begin the healing. I've said repeatedly how horribly they handled it, but I still think they needed someone like that to get them through this portion, I just wish he had handled aspects of it better.
They announced this morning the 19 member panel to select the full time President. That's the story now, and that's where we will see if they meant what they said. Engler was never here for that purpose, and that was why he was never a permanent candidate. I am obviously skeptical about how well any 19 person committee can work, but the purpose of it, is to fulfill their promise of inclusivity in the selection process, and I guess to include everyone, you somehow get to 19. I'd be better off without any BOT members on the committee, but that was obviously impossible. I just don't know how Ferguson, the worst of them all, made the cut. But the representation of faculty, students, and others in higher education from around the state seems to me that they are taking their promise of inclusiveness seriously. I just don't see how that ends in any sort of consensus, and as soon as you have people who don't think it's going in a direction they like (and with 19 people that's impossible to avoid) I imagine they'll be running to the press.
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I think that dramatically understates the damage done by Engler and the BoT since January at so many critical junctures. But in general I can agree with your spirit.
Hopefully elections shake up the BoT and it is the *new* trustees, with careful consideration of faculty input, who choose the next president.
For clear reason, nobody has faith in the current Board.
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I think that dramatically understates the damage done by Engler and the BoT since January at so many critical junctures. But in general I can agree with your spirit.
Hopefully elections shake up the BoT and it is the *new* trustees, with careful consideration of faculty input, who choose the next president.
For clear reason, nobody has faith in the current Board.
No, as I said, the committee was announced today. Only 2 BOT members are up for reelection this year anyway, Breslin, who I think already announced he isn't running; and Lyons, who is a Grade A asshat
1.) Former GVSU President
2.) Student body President
3.) Professor and Lab Director for Rare Isotope Beams
4 & 5.) BOT members Byrum and Foster, the two female BOT members
6 & 7.) BOT Ferguson, which makes no sense, he's the worst of the bunch and BOT Kelly
8.) President of MSU clerical Union
9-13.) 5 Professors (Criminal Justice, Hospitality, Business, Psychiatry, Food Science)
14-16.) 3 Deans (Grad School, LS&A, Engineering)
17.) Linda Hubbard, private CEO
18.) David Porteos, former BOT member
19.) Doctoral candidate student
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Ferguson is *absolutely* the worst of the bunch. For a time, I fully expected the governor to axe him (if not clear house). But Snyder clearly had his own issues. If Ferguson is on-board, and with his standard dose of influence, we shouldn't begin with much faith in that committee. In any event, there's never been more need for an outsider president for MSU than now (well, and January).
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Yeah, Snyder's own shortcomings, followed by his own tone deaf response to them, sidelined him
As for Ferguson, I saw unconfirmed that a certain minimum of the BOT needs to be involved. There are 8 total, and the two up for reelection in the middle of the search are obvious exclusions. Exclusing former head football coach George Perles also makes sense. Not sure why Brian Mossallam was the one left off. Maybe seniority? He has been the most vocal opponent, but a lot of it seems like shtick too, like he's just using this as a political springboard. Doing things like saying people who question the motivations of victims have to "go through him," and whatnot.
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Austin Andrews transferring. To be honest, I thought he had already announced it. Redshirted last year, and apparently had some grade issues, and I don't think he was even practicing.
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Austin Andrews transferring. To be honest, I thought he had already announced it. Redshirted last year, and apparently had some grade issues, and I don't think he was even practicing.
Scratch that, 2016 signee. Redshirted in 2016, played limited minutes in one game last year as a reserve CB. Switched to RB, and was seemingly breaking camp as the #5 RB.
That also means 9 of the top 20 rated recruits in the 2016 class are now gone. UM has had a ton of attrition from that class as well. Weird year considering I'm guessing a good deal of those kids were MI HS players.
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Some internet rumblings that the Chewins injury could be serious. No official word yet, but they sure didn't look good without their starting LT on Friday night. Luke Campbell moved from RT to LT, and Jordan Reid started at RT against Utah State.
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MSU put RS freshman OC/OG Blake Bueter on scholarship. He's played quite a bit in both games...which might be part of the problem.
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MSU punter Jake Hartbarger out 6-8 weeks with bone bruise and possible fracture.
I'm still confused as to how that wasn't a penalty. They blew the play dead for a penalty, but the punter still punted the ball and the ASU player still hit him without making contact with the punt. Maybe it's such a weird situation, the refs didn't think about it. Typically they aren't going to call a "late hit" on a blown dead play absent it being WELL after the play was blown dead, which it wasn't. But you are never allowed to hit the punter without getting the ball, so even if the play was live, it's a penalty. I think the refs were kind of caught in between because it wasn't late enough to be a late hit, but because the play was blown dead they didn't consider roughing. So a hit that would have been a penalty during a live ball play somehow became not a penalty during a dead ball.
The hit was on the plant leg (hence the break) which would have been 15 yards and a 1st down. Would have given MSU 1st and 10 at the ASU 40 yard line with 4:55 left in a 13-13 game.
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Your confidence about the secondary stands out, ELA. Is it because Scott will be back soon? Or is there something Layne et al. are doing that make the passing yards against misleading?
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Your confidence about the secondary stands out, ELA. Is it because Scott will be back soon? Or is there something Layne et al. are doing that make the passing yards against misleading?
There is absolutely no pass rush. I don't think its outstanding, but I think they've done fine considering how long they've had to cover guys, and the fact that they went up last week against the guy Kiper has as the #1 WR prospect in next year's draft. If they continue to get this little from their front seven in pass rush, it doesn't matter who you put back there.
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I'm still confused as to how that wasn't a penalty.
I'm not.
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Do you think Lombardi will keep the punter job? He didn't get many yards on his first try. On the other hand, I'm MD likes the sound of having a QB/punter for fakes.
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He's always liked having a QB back there as a second option. No clue why. Almost cost them the UM game in 2015 with a few terrible Tyler O'Conner punts.
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3rd down defense needs to get cleaned up. Looking at the conference stats, MSU is last in the conference, allowing opponents to convert 44.8% of their 3rd downs. Only Nebraska (who has played 1 game) is surrendering more 1st downs per game than MSU, meaning a lot of extended drives, which may play a part in the 4th quarter. Not only have they allowed 49 first downs through two games, a staggering 36 of those are through the air (8 on the ground, 5 via penalty). Only 5 other Big Ten teams have allowed even half of that (18) through the air, and none have allowed more than 24.
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I'm not.
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Damn Big Ten refs, not calling a penalty on a player who was pushed into the punter.
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Damn Big Ten refs, not calling a penalty on a player who was pushed into the punter.
Yes, Big Ten refs, it wasn't some screw job. But it also wasn't a pushed player who ran into him, it was the outside guy.
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It could have been the right call, though, right? Not for "football justice" and how the rules *should* be written but in terms of how the rule book is written. I feel like it couldn't have been a liveball foul. Which dead ball foul would apply? Not unnecessary roughness. And I think think the convention for late hits after early whistles is that there's a judgment call, and in this case, the hit came quickly enough after the whistle that it's in that gray area.
I will say this, though. If Hartbarger hadn't punted it away (had he just hugged the ball and stood tall), it might have reinforced the sound of the whistle and he'd likely have gone unhit ... and if he had been hit anyway, *that* almost certainly would have been whistled.
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Seems like more people are figuring out what seemingly only Pat Fitzgerald and MSU fans had. You can dink and dunk us to death.
https://www.freep.com/story/sports/college/michigan-state/spartans/2018/09/15/michigan-state-football-pass-defense/1306989002/
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Seems like more people are figuring out what seemingly only Pat Fitzgerald and MSU fans had. You can dink and dunk us to death.
https://www.freep.com/story/sports/college/michigan-state/spartans/2018/09/15/michigan-state-football-pass-defense/1306989002/
Ha, welcome to the last 20 years of my life!
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All three MSU opponents are averaging over 200 yards rushing per game, with Arizona State running for only 165 last night at Washington.
MSU has surrendered 98 rushing yards to those teams...TOTAL
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Run D is definitely the strength of the team.
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This probably seems cheeky as a follow-up, but I'm curious and you're probably the best go-to source out there for non-spreadsheet MSU details:
The OL injury situation, what's it at?
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No word on the two who went out last night. I missed it but Chewins came in for a play and went right back out. Second straight game he's tried one play and couldn't go. Sounds like it's a back injury, which can be tricky. I wonder if they just shut him down for the season soon.
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Team has lacked juice so far. Defense looks pretty good - very happy with front 7. Offensive line and running game has been bad.
I'm not sure we've have any truly great OLs under MD, but the ones that have been good to very good have taken awhile. So we'll see.
Disappointed a bit with Lewerke so far; don't see clear progression in accuracy and we've been hesitant to use his athleticism.
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Cody White broke his hand today.
We are in very rough shape.
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We exclusively have very good or very bad injury luck.
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Sounds like Josiah Scott MIGHT be good for the Michigan game. But that's iffy. If not there, you have 5 games, plus potentially the CCG and a bowl game. You have Nebraska and Rutgers mixed in those 3. If he can't go for Michigan, do you sit him for Nebraska and Rutgers, and just play him for Purdue, Maryland, Ohio State and the bowl game, and allow him to preserve his redshirt? Interesting change with that rule, that Scott could play in those games, and come back next year as a redshirt sophomore.
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Not too shabby for a former walk on
https://twitter.com/PFF_College/status/1047142413515612171/photo/1
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walk-ons are awesome!
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https://mobile.twitter.com/bartonsimmons/status/1046815779918942208
With Larkin out, NU will only get worse. But they've played a pretty decent slate of defenses so far (even Akron is 22nd in S&P+). MSU is down here without that explanation. Instead it's injuries. But, to be fair, that may make it more fixable.
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https://mobile.twitter.com/bartonsimmons/status/1046815779918942208
With Larkin out, NU will only get worse. But they've played a pretty decent slate of defenses so far (even Akron is 22nd in S&P+). MSU is down here without that explanation. Instead it's injuries. But, to be fair, that may make it more fixable.
PFF put Connor Heyward on their Week 5 All-Big Ten team with 15 carries for 48 yards (3.2 ypc), with a long of 7 yards, and 4 catches for 16 yards. I can't comprehend how terrible the OL play must have been for a guy with those numbers to have been one of the two best backs in the conference last week.
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PFF put Connor Heyward on their Week 5 All-Big Ten team with 15 carries for 48 yards (3.2 ypc), with a long of 7 yards, and 4 catches for 16 yards. I can't comprehend how terrible the OL play must have been for a guy with those numbers to have been one of the two best backs in the conference last week.
Matt Wenzel @mwenzel2
6m
PFF says MSU has been OK in pass blocking but "They have created just 1.8 yards before contact for their running backs, and a team run-blocking grade of 48.8 which ranks last in the conference."
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Ick, Darrell Stewart and Jalen Nailor both didn't practice today. That would be 4 of the top 5 injured when you add in White and Chambers. It's Felton David and a bunch of walk ons.
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I want to like PFF, I really do, but they are seemingly so far off on stuff so often, that anyone watching could tell you, that you just wonder how well any of these metrics actually translate to football
https://twitter.com/PFF_College/status/1047972888161210369
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Starting LG David Beedle out a month
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How's the O-Line depth?though losing a starter at this point is never good
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How's the O-Line depth?though losing a starter at this point is never good
They were down 3 starters for a chunk yesterday on the line. It's been the largest of several problems with offense. Combine that with your starting RB and 3 of your too 4 WRs, Lewerke regressing, and Dantonio being loyal to a fault to a substandard OC, and it's ugly.
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Jake Hartbarger officially done for the year
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How does this guy still have a license?
Michigan State football running back LJ Scott encountered more problems with his driving last month.
The senior was cited by Meridian Township Police on Sept. 29 for making an improper turn, operating a vehicle without a valid plate and driving without proof of insurance, according to 55th District Court records.
Scott paid $400 in court costs on Tuesday for the three infractions, according to court records.
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How does this guy still have a license?
Michigan State football running back LJ Scott encountered more problems with his driving last month.
The senior was cited by Meridian Township Police on Sept. 29 for making an improper turn, operating a vehicle without a valid plate and driving without proof of insurance, according to 55th District Court records.
Scott paid $400 in court costs on Tuesday for the three infractions, according to court records.
Jesus. How many driving infractions does this guy have on his record? Really talented kid who just never put it all together on the field and off it.
At what point does Dantonio just say no mas?
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Jesus. How many driving infractions does this guy have on his record? Really talented kid who just never put it all together on the field and off it.
At what point does Dantonio just say no mas?
I think like 8.
He was supposedly healthy last week, and then last minute didn't play. Dantonio gave some kind of weird answer about it, that in retrospect may have been a suspension.
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Reminds me of Josh Gordon and drug tests
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LJ Scott with a torn ligament. Done for the year. He never redshirted, and he said he might use this as his redshirt and come back next year. That would be stupid.
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That would be stupid.
Why? Will he have his degree by May? He has pro aspirations, right? Especially after a down-trending few years (his Frosh campaign was his best, I think) and this non-year, you'd think that his best, perhaps only, chance would be to return.
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Why? Will he have his degree by May? He has pro aspirations, right? Especially after a down-trending few years (his Frosh campaign was his best, I think) and this non-year, you'd think that his best, perhaps only, chance would be to return.
Running backs should always go. He should have gone last year.
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Running backs should always go. He should have gone last year.
But is he draftable? If not, then stay, right?
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Dantonio announced postgame LJ Scott is done for the year.
He's eligible to redshirt if he wants to return.
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https://twitter.com/RyanSchuiling/status/1061369861996208129?s=19
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https://twitter.com/RyanSchuiling/status/1061370375181885440?s=19
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This is some JLS level stuff
https://twitter.com/mattcharboneau/status/1061370295754412034?s=19
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So Brian Lewerke, Bollman and Lombardi all wanted Lombardi, but ... Dantonio wanted Lewerke who didn't want himself. Am I reading between the lines correctly?
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So Brian Lewerke, Bollman and Lombardi all wanted Lombardi, but ... Dantonio wanted Lewerke who didn't want himself. Am I reading between the lines correctly?
That's my take. Except Warner, not Bollman. Bollman is co-OC in title only.
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Ah, I misread the tweet. These things happen. But less often do they include the #1 QB asking that his back-up be the guy and that not happening.
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Warner sounds like a guy who knows he's on his way out
Co-offensive coordinator Dave Warner declined to address what went into the decision to start Lewerke for the second straight week despite his admission that he was playing through pain in his right shoulder on every throw.
“I’ll defer that to coach Dantonio,” Warner said. “We talk about it throughout the week, obviously. It's a staff decision, but it still comes down to the head coach.”
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I'm surprised that Dantonio would ever be on the verge of firing anyone. /thisisembellishedbutminimally
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Dan Roushar was likely encouraged to look around. I do wonder if Dantonio would have pulled the trigger if he hadn't landed an NFL RB coach job.
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MSU and Washington finalize a home and home for 2028 and 2031. I assume the game in Seattle will kick at 11:00 PM ET, and the return game won't be at noon.
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RS Junior OT Noah Listermann will graduate and not return for a 5th year.
He was a late riser in the recruiting rankings, choosing MSU over UW and a late OSU offer. He joined LJ Scott in that 2015 class as OH guys who chose MSU over OSU, and some thought they were the two best players in MSUs class.
Instead Listermann never once saw the field in four years. OL recruiting is such a crapshoot.
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I was watching some highlights from the 2015 Big Ten Championship today, and something dawned on me. Maybe the offensive problems go all the way to the top, nothing was ever fixed, and Connor Cook just covered up a lot of issues.
The 2012 MSU team was the 7-6 team that wasted a top 5 S&P+ defense with a garbage offense. 2013 started, and it looked like more of the same. I think MSU had more defensive scores than offensive through 3 games. They insert Cook, and after a shaky first start against Notre Dame, he finds his legs, and the offense starts rolling with that trip to Iowa City (with a couple bumps). Offense continues to be good through 2014 and 2015, until Cook gets knocked out of the Maryland game with an injury...
MSU struggles in that one to score 24, with 7 coming on a defensive score, and 7 prior to Cook's injury. They then pull off the nuts 17-14 win in Columbus without Cook, and largely without offense. Have one good game against Penn State with Cook back, then apparently he reinjured the shoulder in the Championship Game against Iowa. Can't throw the ball mroe than 10-15 yards per some reports. MSU wins, but by scoring 16 points. He tries to play through the injury again in the Cotton Bowl, and they get shut out by Bama. We all know the disaster that was 2016. While 2017 "seemed" to fix some things, really the only difference between 2017 and 2018 for MSU was that MSU won a bunch of low scoring games in 2017 that they lost in 2018. They won 4 games (Iowa, Michigan, Indiana and Maryland) where they score 17 points or less. Really this offense has been a compete mess since 2012 without a HEALTHY Connor Cook.
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Messiah deWeaver was the starting QB for the JUCO national champs. Probably would have gotten a ton of PT in East Lansing this year. Don't think the staff would have rolled out an injured Lewerke as much if he was the Plan B.
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Messiah deWeaver was the starting QB for the JUCO national champs. Probably would have gotten a ton of PT in East Lansing this year. Don't think the staff would have rolled out an injured Lewerke as much if he was the Plan B.
And for good measure, a former MSU commit who lost his scholarship offer when he got arrested and jailed as a HS senior was the starting QB for the D2 national champs today.