CFB51 College Football Fan Community
The Power Five => Big Ten => Topic started by: OrangeAfroMan on March 28, 2021, 07:01:46 PM
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Discuss.
1. Mayfield, OU
2. Newton, AU
3. Young, Tex
4. Tebow, Fla
5. Burrow, LSU
6. Watson, Clem
7. Murray, OU
8. Jackson, UL
9. Mariota, Ore
10. Griffin, Bay
11. Lawrence, Clem
12. McCoy, Tex
13. Manziel, A&M
14. Moore, BSU
15. Bradford, OU
16. Winston, FSU
17. Leinart, USC
18. Luck, Stan
19. Tagovailoa, Bama
20. Rivers, NCST
21. Palmer, USC
22. Keenum, Hou
23. Hurts, Bama/OU
24. Wilson, NCST/Wis
25. White, WV
26. Rethlisberger, Mia (OH)
27. Fields, OSU
28. Grossman, Fla
29. Kaepernick, Nev
30. White, OU
31. Smith, OSU
32. Harrell, TTU
33. Daniel, Miz
34. Dorsey, Mia (FL)
35. Jones, Bama
36. Jones, OU
37. Smith, Utah
38. Klein, KSU
39. Brennan, Haw
40. Murray, UGA
41. Leftwich, Marsh
42. Crouch, Neb
43. Quinn, ND
44. Manning, OM
45. Trask, Fla
46. Lynch, NIU
47. Robinson, UM
48. LeFevour, CMU
49. Carr, Fresno
50. Banks, Iowa
51. Reynolds, Navy
52. Harrington, Ore
53. Rudolph, OKST
54. Mahomes, TTU
55. Reesing, KU
56. Rodgers, Cal
57. Barkley, USC
58. Wilson, BYU
59. Dalton, TCU
60. Kolb, Hou
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Looks like they heavily weighed team success (NC vs non-NC), didn't weigh NFL success (thank Christ), and valued peak over volume. Personally, I couldn't do a list like this - meshing the 1-year wonders with the 3 and 4-year guys. I'd have separate lists, by volume of games started. But the worldwide leader can do whatever it wants.
What say you?
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Who were the bottom 60 starting QBs of the 2000s?
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If given a minimum number of pass attempts, we could find out.
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I'm glad they put Reynolds in.
Jason White and Harrington are way too low. Other than that nothing really to complain about.
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How can you justify putting Cam Newton over Joe Burrow?
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Seems like peak was rated over career, but then where is Joe Burrow?
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Seems like peak was rated over career, but then where is Joe Burrow?
Yeah - like Cam only really played one season, and it was great, but not as great as Burrow's best season. Though they both dragged bad head coaches to a national championship.
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Yeah - like Cam only really played one season, and it was great, but not as great as Burrow's best season. Though they both dragged bad head coaches to a national championship.
I assume it's voted on, so no real structural reason for why anyone is anywhere.
If one wanted to make the case, Joe had better support and Cam could carry you in the run game. We also saw mildly above average Joe, but not Camp.
Not that there's really any logic in such a ranking.
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Did any of them QB two National Championship teams? One that did is not on the list.
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If given a minimum number of pass attempts, we could find out.
I dunno. Could go ones that started at least half a season.
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Did any of them QB two National Championship teams? One that did is not on the list.
By this one-dimensional thinking, Trent Dilfer > Dan Marino
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How can you justify putting Cam Newton over Joe Burrow?
Newton had a great passing season (albeit lower volume) AND what Burrow's RB did, all by himself. Who was Newton's top WR? Who was his top RB?
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Newton was great enough to back up Tebow.
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Who were the bottom 60 starting QBs of the 2000s?
I can only find data with a minimum of 700 pass attempts (a lot for labeling a "worst" list, and excludes all of the 1-year wonders and most of the 2-year QBs, too, but that being said, I'm surprised at the worst:
Worst B1G QBs of the 2000s:
1. Trevor Siemian, NW
2. Zach Mills, PSU
3. Anthony Morelli, PSU
4. Clayton Thorson, NW
5. Brett Basanez, NW
6. Wes Lunt, ILL
7. James Vandenberg, Iowa
8. C.J. Bacher, NW
9. Brian Lewerke, MSU
10. Mitch Leidner, Minn
9. Brian Hoyer, MSU
10. Christian Hackenberg, PSU
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I moved Lewerke and Leidner down off the list because of their positive rushing exploits, which is what kept Juice Williams off the list, too.Most of these guys actually had a better than 1:1 TD to INT ratio, but all of them had crappy yards-per-attempt numbers. Like awful.
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To show how much the game has changed, Siemian's pass rating is virtually identical to Jeff George's. George threw for 35 TD and 35 INTs and somehow had like double the sack yardage lost compared to any other QB, going back decades. He was drafted solely on one attribute and maybe that's why his career transpired the way it did.
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I guess that's good that there are no Huskers in the past 10 seasons that sucked
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seems odd that a program like PSU that recruits well has that many stinkers
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The Huskers only have 4 QBs with enough attempts, and Tommy Armstrong is the worst of those.
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Tommy wasn't good
but, didn't make the list
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Hoyer went on to be an NFL starter, and is still bouncing around the league iirc.
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Hoyer was great as a junior in Dantonio's first year, and then really struggled as a senior.
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Well to get 700 pass attempts at a not-sucky B10 school, you have to be able to play at least a little bit.
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like Taylor Martinez?
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By this one-dimensional thinking, Trent Dilfer > Dan Marino
that's not the only thing to his name, though. aj isn't near the top, imo, but should probably be on the list, probably near the bottom.
i have no issue with newton being top 2. i'd have young, cam and tebow in top 3, pick any order you want. and burrow at 5 is fine, but if he's there, why is mac jones 30 spots behind when he broke half his records? not saying jones is better or should be ahead, but he should at least be close to him.
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The talent around Jones was other-worldly. Honest-to-god, Jones could have played left-handed and the Tide would have gone 11-2. Anyway, that's my guess.
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And the rest of the world can continue their Vince Young obsession based on one game....
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The talent around Jones was other-worldly. Honest-to-god, Jones could have played left-handed and the Tide would have gone 11-2. Anyway, that's my guess.
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And the rest of the world can continue their Vince Young obsession based on one game....
And Burrow didn't? Link says otherwise.
https://www.pro-football-reference.com/schools/lsu/drafted.htm
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It's too early to tell if you want to make that argument.
But I think LSU loses 4 games if Burrow is tossing left-handed, in case that's your focus. Bama only 2.
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The talent around Jones was other-worldly. Honest-to-god, Jones could have played left-handed and the Tide would have gone 11-2. Anyway, that's my guess.
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the talent around each was pretty damn comparable. only reason jones is hit is cause it's annual for bama vs cyclical for lsu. but that lsu team was stacked. bama was too, no doubt.
that lsu team had 6 players on offense drafted, not including burrow, 2 in the first round, and several more expected in this draft.
bama will surely look similar over next couple years, but that's the point, they're very similar.
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Who were the bottom 60 starting QBs of the 2000s?
Michigan has a couple of those on that list.
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Michigan has a couple of those on that list.
if we're talking any starting qb, bama has a guy that went 3-7, 12 yrds, 0 tds, 1 int. also added 3 rushed for -2 yards. brandon avalos, 2003 vs so miss. starter and backup qb's got injured, left 3rd string avalos who was either a true soph or rs frosh, to take reins. somehow bama won, lol.
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the talent around each was pretty damn comparable. only reason jones is hit is cause it's annual for bama vs cyclical for lsu. but that lsu team was stacked. bama was too, no doubt.
that lsu team had 6 players on offense drafted, not including burrow, 2 in the first round, and several more expected in this draft.
bama will surely look similar over next couple years, but that's the point, they're very similar.
I think the LSU roster was normal-great and I'm not sure about the lines. Bama, in the past 7-8 years, has had among the most talented rosters of all time.
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I think the LSU roster was normal-great and I'm not sure about the lines. Bama, in the past 7-8 years, has had among the most talented rosters of all time.
but we aren't talking full rosters, we're just talking players who played significantly. and in that case, lsu 2019 was comparable to 2020 bama.
excluding qb's and defense, here are the draft results and/or projections (for projections i'm going with optimistic projections for each, and these are actual results unless noted otherwise):
lsu:
3 1st-2nd round wr (1 drafter 1st, 1 projected top 5-10 and 1 projected late 1st-early 2nd in 2020)
1 1st round rb
2 3rd rd oline
1 4th rd oline
1 7th rd te
their oline won the joe moore award for best college oline in 2019.
and for the 2020 nfl season, every nfl eligible player (https://lsutigerswire.usatoday.com/2020/05/05/every-draft-eligible-player-from-lsus-2019-offense-is-now-on-an-nfl-roster/) from that 2019 team ended up on nfl rosters, even those undrafted, which includes another wr, te and 2 more oline.
awards for those players include the belitnikoff, unanimous aa wr, 2nd team aa oline, 3 first team all sec, 3 2nd team all sec.
bama (the are all projections for 2020):
2 1st rd wr (1 top 5-10, 1 top 15-20)
1 1st rd rb
2 2nd rd oline
1 3rd rd oline
1 5th rd oline
1 6th rd te
bama oline won same joe moore award in 2020.
future draft projections for players ineligible this draft include a top 3 rd wr, top 2 rd oline and draftable rb 4-7th (those are generous guesses if they were in this draft, could change with monster year in 2021).
awards for those players include the heisman, belitnikoff, maxwell, walter camp, hornung, ap poty, sporting news poty, sec off poty (all smith, most of these went to lsu's burrow in 2019), doak, outland, jacobs, remington, 4 unanimous aa (wr, rb, 2 oline), 4 first team all sec, 1 2nd team all sec oline.
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Don't forget Joe Brady!
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(https://scontent.ffod1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.6435-0/p526x296/167184816_3841019422652835_5579951513514572425_n.jpg?_nc_cat=1&ccb=1-3&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=66ZzWsKwwU0AX8zLYzd&_nc_ht=scontent.ffod1-1.fna&tp=6&oh=78a094c6710c9c027adcce9caea1a4ce&oe=608CE809)
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I wonder what Chase ran a year ago. Kind of nice to have over a year to prep for the combine/draft.
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I feel the NFL combine is more legit than some school's Pro Day
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I feel the NFL combine is more legit than some school's Pro Day
Pro Day #'s are inflated garbage. The testing isn't as real as the combine.
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I feel the NFL combine is more legit than some school's Pro Day
unless it's changed in recent years, pro days are almost always hand times. i haven't heard of anywhere that uses laser times for pro days.
that said, i've read most nfl scouts don't use the laser times at the combine either. they use their own hand times anyway, so for them it isn't really different.
but guys can have good/bad days running and working out, which can change a lot. 4-5 years back, there was a bama dline that was supposedly capable of beating he bench record. there was a video of him matching it in pre-combine workouts. but at combine he wasn't even top 5 that year, and nowhere near the record. had a bad day at the worst time.