CFB51 College Football Fan Community
The Power Five => Big Ten => Topic started by: medinabuckeye1 on January 05, 2021, 12:30:09 PM
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Half of the conference's teams have been to the B1GCG in the 10 years that it has been played. Two more (Michigan and Minnesota) have tied for a divisional championship but lost the tiebreaker. The seven that have appeared in the B1GCG are:
- Ohio State: Six appearances, five wins.
- Wisconsin: Six appearances, two wins.
- Michigan State: Three appearances, two wins.
- Penn State: One appearance, one win.
- Northwestern: Two appearances, no wins.
- Iowa: One appearance, no wins.
- Nebraska: One appearance, no wins.
Here is the closest each team that hasn't made it has been:
- Michigan: Tied tOSU in 2018, lost H2H tiebreaker.
- Minnesota: Tied UW in 2019, lost H2H tiebreaker.
- Indiana: Oneish game out in 2020: They lost H2H to tOSU and finished 1/2 game behind the Buckeyes and would have gone but for a last minute rule change. Their next closest finishes were four games out in both 2016 and 2019.
- Purdue: Two games out in 2011. The Boilermakers finished 4-4 behind UW and PSU (both 6-2). They lost to both the Badgers and the Lions so it was two games plus the tiebreakers.
- Illinois: Three games out in 2019. The Illini finished 4-5 behind UW and MN (both 7-2) and Iowa (6-3). They lost to the Hawkeyes and Gophers but did beat the Badgers.
- Maryland: Three games out in 2020. The Terps finished 2-3 behind tOSU (5-0), IU (6-1), and PSU (4-5). They lost to IU, beat PSU, and didn't play tOSU. Their next closest was four games out in 2014. They finished 4-4 behind tOSU (8-0) and MSU (7-1). They lost to both that year so it was four games plus the tiebreakers.
- Rutgers: Four games out in 2020. The Scarlet Knights finished 3-6 behind tOSU (5-0), IU (6-1), PSU (4-5), and UMD (2-3). They lost to the Buckeyes, Hoosiers, and Lions but did beat the Terps. Their next closest were finishing five games out in both 2014 and 2017.
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I voted Minnesota. I think it is close between the Gophers, Hoosiers, and Wolverines but right now I think that the Gophers have the advantage in that group because the Buckeyes don't stand in their way.
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I voted Minnesota. I think it is close between the Gophers, Hoosiers, and Wolverines but right now I think that the Gophers have the advantage in that group because the Buckeyes don't stand in their way.
outside of playing them the first game next season
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outside of playing them the first game next season
I understand that but I'm saying that unlike the Wolverines and Hoosiers, the Gophers don't compete with Ohio State in their division. They can lose to Ohio State and still control their own destiny to the B1GCG.
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It won't be the Wolverines....
...actually it probably will be, unfortunately.
While the B1G West is the easier path, every team with a puncher's chance of winning that division already has. Now if Northwestern can win it twice, then Minnesota, Purdue and Illinois could certainly win it once as they each have a "higher ceiling" than the Wildcats. But none of these teams are exactly "on the cusp" so to speak.
For Indiana, Maryland and Rutgers, they not only have to be good, but they have to be good during a year where OSU, PSU and M are all putrid. Indiana came close to achieving the magic recipe by being good on a year where both PSU and M were putrid, but the OSU card didn't fall in line.
Now there could always be another 2012 where the third place team gets in, but those are difficult to predict.
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Hoosiers
Coach Tom knows what he's doing with that gigantic chip on his shoulder
He was closer to Ohio St. this season than Michigan has been in a long time
and if he could get the Commish to stand by the rules that are set forth at the beginning of the season......
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None of the above?
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I went with TTUN, they have the most talent of the "haven't been there group."
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yup, just missing the coach
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Gophers.
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My order:
- Gophers: As annoying as they are, I think they're more stable in their roster and their results than the rest of the West. They started their rebuild from a better base.
- Michigan: Based purely on talent. No, I don't think OSU is going to stumble, and OSU is the giant boulder in their path. But if OSU has a down year, Michigan is best poised to take advantage of it--even if it's losing their only game to a 2-loss OSU and still managing to get into the CCG.
- Purdue: The talent has been getting upgraded across the roster in WLaf, but particularly on the OL (which takes years to develop). If they can put it together, they've got potentially the highest offensive ceiling of anyone in the conference, which might be the only way to beat Wisconsin.
- Illinois: Better recruiting ground than Purdue, probably better than Minnesota. But after Lovie, I suspect their rebuild will take several years to come to the point where they're able to challenge for the CCG, so I think Minnesota or Purdue might have better short-term odds of getting to the CCG.
- Maryland: More historic success than IU or Rutgers, generally IMHO better recruiting. Obviously you can see that other than Michigan (talent), I picked the three West teams before the three East teams, based PURELY on the strength of the OSU/UM/PSU triad relative to Wisconsin and... Ummm... Wisconsin.
- Indiana: They're on the right path. But, Indiana as a state is terrible recruiting ground given Purdue and Notre Dame in-state, and OSU and UM state-adjacent. I just don't think that they can amass enough talent to catch all of the OSU/UM/PSU triad on down years or get into the CCG on a crazy tiebreaker.
- Rutgers: Because Rutgers.
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Michigan
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Michigan
As long as Ohio State is doing this:
(https://i.imgur.com/1g3KhZ8.png)
And Michigan has this:
(https://i.imgur.com/AoSYAmP.png)
It ain't gonna happen.
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bunch of canoe paddlers in here
you think that pic of Jimmy looks goofy
pics of PJ aren't usually the best
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I voted Michigan too. Along with fellow Big 12-er Kris.
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Michigan - everyone has a down year once in a while, so Michigan will slide by Ohio St, Penn St, and Indiana someday soon, although maybe, or maybe not, next season. Iowa, pesky Northwestern, and Wisconsin stand in Minnesota's path.
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I understand that but I'm saying that unlike the Wolverines and Hoosiers, the Gophers don't compete with Ohio State in their division. They can lose to Ohio State and still control their own destiny to the B1GCG.
OK thought I 1st read NCG - ya I'd go Goophs then
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I think I need to amend my own answer:
I went with Minnesota primarily because tOSU is just a machine right now and I think this year's struggles for PSU were a blip. For any B1G-E team to get there they would have to beat out those two. I just don't see that as being very likely. Final standings for the seven years that the B1G-E has existed:
2020:
- 5-0 tOSU
- 6-1 IU: lost to tOSU
2019:
- 9-0 tOSU
- 7-2 PSU: lost to tOSU and MN
2018:
- 8-1 tOSU: lost to PU
- 8-1 M: lost to tOSU
- 6-3 PSU: lost to tOSU, MSU, and M
2017:
- 8-1 tOSU: lost to Iowa
- 7-2 MSU: lost to tOSU and NU
- 7-2 PSU: lost to tOSU and MSU
2016:
- 8-1 PSU: lost to M
- 8-1 tOSU: lost to PSU
2015:
- 7-1 MSU: lost to UNL
- 7-1 tOSU: lost to MSU
2014:
- 8-0 tOSU
- 7-1 MSU: lost to tOSU
I also think that Michigan is just a mess right now and in the East that only leaves IU, UMD, and RU. I just don't think any of them are going to get past tOSU/PSU anytime soon.
However, whether or not Michigan is a mess RIGHT NOW, they are still a school with great brand recognition, a humongous stadium, and the resources to spend whatever it takes. If we look beyond the near-term I think the answer here has to be Michigan.
Thus, if it happens within the next 3-5 years I would say my order is:
- Minnesota
- Purdue
- Illinois
- Michigan
- Indiana
- Maryland
- Rutgers
If it does NOT happen within the next 3-5 years then my order is:
- Michigan
- Minnesota
- Maryland
- Purdue
- Illinois
- Indiana
- Rutgers
Going beyond 3-5 years I moved Michigan and Maryland way up because I think that in the long-term they have a better chance than the teams I moved them past. I still left Minnesota ahead of Maryland but if they switched divisions I'd move Maryland ahead of Minnesota as well.
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so, yer saying HArbaugh won't be around longer than 3-5 years ;)
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Went MN and my 2nd would be Purdue. I am not confident anyone in the East will get by tOSU anytime soon.
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but, Indiana DID get by tOSU this season
Buckeyes needed help from the Commish
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No they didn't get past OSU this year. Indiana needed help from Covid.
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so, yer saying HArbaugh won't be around longer than 3-5 years ;)
If they don't make a B1GCG appearance, probably not*. In 3-5 years Harbaugh will either have them competing at a high level or be gone. Either way, long-term they are a threat to at least make the B1GCG.
*I could see Harbaugh keeping his job for another five years without a B1GCG appearance but only if he is really close and tOSU stays at their current level such that losing to them is excusable.
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Harbaugh is getting a pass because he is a Michigan guy. His seat is getting warmer each day and if it wasn't for a pandemic, he probably would not have been competitive in The Game this year either. I don't see him lasting 3-5 more beatdowns from tOSU, he will have to pull out a win soon or at least be competitive.
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Harbaugh is getting a pass because he is a Michigan guy. His seat is getting warmer each day and if it wasn't for a pandemic, he probably would not have been competitive in The Game this year either. I don't see him lasting 3-5 more beatdowns from tOSU, he will have to pull out a win soon or at least be competitive.
I think that largely depends on whether 2020 was a blip or Harbaugh's new norm. I realize that Michigan fans are NEVER going to be content with losing to Ohio State but the vast majority of Harbaugh's pre-2020 losses were to very good teams. A smart AD will understand that while being behind your main rival sucks, it is vastly better to be slightly behind your main rival than to be WAY behind your main rival. Here are all of the teams that have defeated Michigan in Harbaugh's tenure with their final record and final AP ranking:
- 2015 Utah, 10-3, #17
- 2015 MSU, 12-2, #6
- 2015 tOSU, 12-1, #4
- 2016 Iowa, 8-5, nr (but had votes)
- 2016 tOSU, 11-2, #6
- 2016 FSU, 10-3, #8
- 2017 MSU, 10-3, #15
- 2017 PSU, 11-2, #8
- 2017 UW, 13-1, #7
- 2017 tOSU, 12-2, #5
- 2017 USCe, 9-4, nr (but had votes)
- 2018 ND, 12-1, #5
- 2018 tOSU, 13-1, #3
- 2018 UF, 10-3, #7
- 2019 UW, 10-4, #11
- 2019 PSU, 11-2, #9
- 2019 tOSU, 13-1, #3
- 2019 Bama, 11-2, #8
Prior to 2019 Harbaugh only had two losses to teams that finished unranked and both of them were close to ranked (received votes). 13 of his 18 losses from 2015-2019 were to teams that finished in the top-10. Losing always sucks but the vast majority of teams (and coaches) aren't going to win very often against most of the teams on that list. In the seven years before Harbaugh got to Michigan they had three sub .500 seasons, one 8-5 season, and one season better than 8-5. In Harbaugh's first five years they had one 8-5 season and four better than that.
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4 and 5 loss seasons going forward with one of those a beatdown from the Bucks are going to cost his job
he really needs 2 and 3 loss seasons with a competitive game in "the game"
I don't see improvement coming
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- 2015 Utah, 10-3, #17 24-17
- 2015 MSU, 12-2, #6 27-23
- 2015 tOSU, 12-1, #4 42-13
- 2016 Iowa, 8-5, nr (but had votes) 14-13
- 2016 tOSU, 11-2, #6 30-27 (2OT)
- 2016 FSU, 10-3, #8 33-32
- 2017 MSU, 10-3, #15 14-10
- 2017 PSU, 11-2, #8 42-13
- 2017 UW, 13-1, #7 24-10
- 2017 tOSU, 12-2, #5 31-20
- 2017 USCe, 9-4, nr (but had votes) 26-19
- 2018 ND, 12-1, #5 24-10
- 2018 tOSU, 13-1, #3 62-39
- 2018 UF, 10-3, #7 41-15
- 2019 UW, 10-4, #11 35-14
- 2019 PSU, 11-2, #9 28-21
- 2019 tOSU, 13-1, #3 56-27
- 2019 Bama, 11-2, #8 35-16
I do agree that he has lost to some tough competition but it appears to me that the games are becoming less competitive. You probably know Michigan fan better than I do but I can't imagine they are content with this. Add the 2-4 weird 2020 (0-3 at home) I can't imagine that he is comfortable in his office now. I could be wrong but Michigan seems to expect more on a yearly basis.
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I do agree that he has lost to some tough competition but it appears to me that the games are becoming less competitive. You probably know Michigan fan better than I do but I can't imagine they are content with this. Add the 2-4 weird 2020 (0-3 at home) I can't imagine that he is comfortable in his office now. I could be wrong but Michigan seems to expect more on a yearly basis.
Well, of those 18, here are the losses that were by more than 14 points:
- 2015 tOSU by 29: The Buckeyes finished 12-1 and #4.
- 2017 PSU by 29: The Lions finished 11-2 and #8.
- 2018 tOSU by 23: The Buckeyes finished 13-1 and #3.
- 2018 UF by 26: The Gators finished 10-3 and #7.
- 2019 UW by 21: The Badgers finished 10-4 and #11.
- 2019 tOSU by 29: The Buckeyes finished 13-1 and #3.
- 2019 Bama by 19: The Tide finished 11-2 and #8.
There are some blowouts and they do seem to be increasing in frequency (one in 2015, none in 2016, one in 2017, two in 2018, three in 2019) but these are to teams that finished:
- #3 twice (2018 and 2019 Buckeyes)
- #4 (2015 Buckeyes)
- #7 (2018 Gators)
- #8 twice (2017 PSU and 2019 Tide)
- #11 (2019 Badgers)
It sucks, but really good teams do that to almost everybody.
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they don't do it to Michigan's rival
has this happened to the "other" East helmet PSU?
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teams not receiving votes are doing it to the B1G-W's helmet.
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don't be too hard on the Badgers
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I'm hard pressed to think anyone else from the East will make it "soon", other than PSU perhaps. If NW can do it, so can Minny.
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Northwestern and Minnesota are inverses of each other, really.
Northwestern was putrid up until the nineteen dicketies, but today they are typically "above average" with the occasional "awful" season sprinkled in.
Minnesota was a powerhouse up until the nineteen dicketies, but today they are typically "awful" with the occasional "above average" season sprinkled in.
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We all know how the right coach can generate the right outcome.
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teams not receiving votes are doing it to the B1G-W's helmet.
I think it's more than that...
The top teams in the East are OSU / UM / PSU (#1 solid, but not necessarily in that order for 2/3 depending on year).
The top teams in the West are UW / IA / UNL (#1 solid, but not necessarily in that order for 2/3 depending on year).
However, if I had to rank those six teams, it would be:
- OSU
- Wisconsin
- UM or PSU
- PSU or UM
- Iowa or UNL
- UNL or Iowa
For someone in the East to get to the CCG, they need to finish higher than 3 of the top 4 teams in the B1G. For someone in the West to get into the CCG, they need to finish higher than the #2 team in the B1G and two teams that are slightly above median for strength in the whole conference.
OSU might have a down year... At some point. But the most likely beneficiaries of that down year are UM or PSU, because the gap between UM/PSU and the rest of the east is pretty stark. To have all of them have a down year on the same year is unlikely. Hence why I have UM just below MN in my ranking of the 7 teams who haven't made it, because if OSU has a down year they're likely to be the heir apparent that year.
Wisconsin can certainly have a down year--arguably this is one. Given the relative strength of next-up Iowa and UNL compared to the rest of the division, it's much more likely that one of the three teams that remains behind them on one of their "up" years can get in.
I vote that the West is easier not because Wisconsin is weaker than OSU, but that the triad of Wisconsin/Iowa/UNL is significantly weaker than the triad of OSU/UM/PSU.
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but, Indiana DID get by tOSU this season
Buckeyes needed help from the Commish
Old,bitter,drunken FF just a stirrin' up the pot
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Northwestern and Minnesota are inverses of each other, really.
Northwestern was putrid up until the nineteen dicketies, but today they are typically "above average" with the occasional "awful" season sprinkled in.
Minnesota was a powerhouse up until the nineteen dicketies, but today they are typically "awful" with the occasional "above average" season sprinkled in.
"dicketies" = "sixties"?
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Pretty sure Northwestern was hilariously bad at least through the 80s.
Yeah, I know they had their Otto Graham years in the early 40s, but from that point until Gary Barnett in the 90s, they were a doormat.
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Pretty sure Northwestern was hilariously bad at least through the 80s.
Yeah, I know they had their Otto Graham years in the early 40s, but from that point until Gary Barnett in the 90s, they were a doormat.
Graham played at Northwestern immediately before and in the first years of WWII. His three teams went 5-3, 1-9, and 6-2 in 1941-1943. His Wildcat teams went 2-1 against Ohio State teams coached by Paul Brown which is why Paul Brown drafted him to play for the Cleveland Browns after the war.
Postwar, the Wildcats had a really good season in 1948 with an 8-2 record and a Rose Bowl win. They didn't actually win the league, but Michigan repeated and the "no repeat rule" was in effect. See side note on Rose Bowl below.
After that Rose Bowl win on January 1, 1949 (1948 season) the Wildcats did not play in another bowl game until January 1, 1996 (1995 season) when they lost the Rose Bowl to USC. They didn't win another bowl game until January 1, 2013 when they beat MissSt in the Gator Bowl.
In between their Rose Bowl seasons in 1948 and 1995 the Wildcats were flat awful, the worst in all of College Football. For the 46 years from 1949-1994 Northwestern was 135-325-8 0.297. Doormat is an understatement, here is their record against each of the teams that were in the Big Ten for at least most of that time:
- .105 against tOSU, 4-34
- .147 against M, 5-29
- .176 against Iowa, 6-28
- .194 against MSU, 7-29
- .212 against PU, 7-26
- .293 against UW, 13-32-1
- .333 against MN, 13-27-2
- .391 against IL, 17-27-2
- .462 against IU, 18-21
Northwestern was #7 in the final AP Poll for 1949 and #8 in the final AP Poll for 1995 but they were not ranked in any final poll between those two. The Wildcats were ranked just 42 times out of 643 polls from 1949 through 1994. Their ranking history from 1949-1994:
- 1949: Ranked #13 and #20 in two polls, otherwise unranked.
- 1950: Ranked #9 and #20 in two polls, otherwise unranked.
- 1951: Ranked #13 and #18 in two polls, otherwise unranked.
- 1952: not ranked.
- 1953: Ranked #18 in one poll, otherwise unranked.
- 1954-1957: not ranked.
- 1958: Ranked six times between #4 and #20, otherwise unranked.
- 1959: Ranked 10 times between #2 and #10, otherwise unranked.
- 1960: Ranked three times between #6 and #14, otherwise unranked.
- 1961: not ranked.
- 1962: Ranked five times between #1 and #9, otherwise unranked.
- 1963: Ranked five times between #4 and #10, otherwise unranked.
- 1964-1969: not ranked.
- 1970: Ranked four times between #18 and #20, otherwise unranked.
- 1971: Ranked #18 and #20 in two polls, otherwise unranked.
- 1972-1994: not ranked. NU was ranked #19 in the December 6, 1971 poll then fell out in the final poll. They did not appear again until September 12, 1995 when they appeared at #25. They started 1995 by stunning #9 Notre Dame in South Bend. That actually didn't get them ranked but they had a week off the next week then got in at #25 before losing to Miami, OH and falling back out again. Then they climbed all the way to #3 before losing to USC in the Rose Bowl to finish #8.
Another way to look at it is their record against Ohio State:
- .365, 9-16-1 from their first game (1913, tOSU's first year in the league) through 1948. That isn't great, but it isn't all that bad either.
- .094, 5-48 from 1949 through 2020. The five wins were:
- 2004 in Evanston
- 1971 in Columbus
- 1963 in Columbus
- 1962 in Columbus
- 1958 in Evanston
The Wildcats lost 24 straight to the Buckeyes between their wins in 1971 and 2004 and since their win in 2004 they have lost nine straight.
Side note on the Rose Bowl:
The BigTen/Pac8/10 Rose Bowl agreement started immediately after the war, for the 1946 season. Prior to that the game was generally the Pac Champion against the best Eastern team they could get. Ie, the 1946 Rose Bowl (1945 season) was USC vs #2 Bama.
The BigTen dominated in the early years, winning six straight (1947-1952) and twelve of the first 13 (1947-1959). In those first 13 years of the agreement the BigTen teams were:
- 3-0 Ohio State
- 2-0 Iowa
- 2-0 Michigan State
- 2-0 Illinois
- 2-0 Michigan
- 1-0 Northwestern
- 0-1 Wisconsin
- Purdue, Minnesota, and Indiana did not appear.
For the next ten years the Rose Bowl was evenly matched with each conference winning five times. In those 10 years (1960-1969) the BigTen teams were:
- 1-0 Ohio State
- 1-0 Illinois
- 1-0 Purdue
- 1-0 Michigan
- 1-1 Minnesota
- 0-1 Michigan State
- 0-1 Indiana
- 0-2 Wisconsin
- Northwestern and Iowa did not appear.
For the next 18 years the Pac dominated, winning 16 of 18 from 1970-1987. In those 18 years the BigTen teams were:
- 1-6 Ohio State
- 1-7 Michigan
- 0-1 Illinois
- 0-2 Iowa
- Michigan State, Indiana, Purdue, Northwestern, Wisconsin, and Minnesota did not appear.
For the next 14 years the BigTen then Big11Ten did very well, going 9-5 before the BCS began to interfere with the historic matchup. In those 14 years (1988-2001) the BigTen and Big11Ten teams were:
- 3-0 Wisconsin
- 1-0 Ohio State
- 1-0 Michigan State
- 1-0 Penn State
- 3-2 Michigan
- 0-1 Northwestern
- 0-1 Iowa
- 0-1 Purdue
- Minnesota, Indiana, and Illinois did not appear.
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I definitely didn't know that Woody Hayes dropped four games vs the Wildcats, three of which were following NC seasons. Somewhere in there is a helluva trivia question.
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We all know how the right coach can generate the right outcome.
so, if we are talking about the next 3-5 years it's almost got to be a current coach or a new coach that would come in soon, such as 2021 or 2022
I would change my vote from Indiana to Michigan if Harbaugh was fired or hired away by the NFL within a month or two
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It's so incredible that the miracle '95 N'Western team lost to Miami of Ohio.
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I've thought Illinois was a potential near powerhouse program, and still do, with the right coach and facilities and investment. I could see a year where they put up a pretty solid team and Wisconsin/Iowa/et al. have down years, and UI draws pastries from the East for crossover. They might be 9-3 and hold the tie breakers. Minnesota could do the same thing, probably with greater probability. I thought Purdue was showing signs of life a couple years back.
Aside from the HC, happening upon a QB who was unheralded but fits the offense and matures into a good player, probably with good wheels, can make a diff.
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with the right coach and facilities and investment.
this could be said about most programs
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It's so incredible that the miracle '95 N'Western team lost to Miami of Ohio.
That was the next game after their season-opening win over #9 Notre Dame in South Bend. Hearing that, you would think it was just a "hangover" effect where they spent too much time celebrating the big win over ND but the weird thing is that Northwestern actually had a Saturday off in between. They beat Notre Dame in South Bend on Saturday, September 2, then took Saturday, September 9 off, THEN lost to Miami, OH at home on Saturday, September 16. The "hangover" shouldn't have lasted THAT long.
OTOH, I just posted details of how dreadful the Wildcats were from 1949-1994 so that probably explains why it lasted as long as it did. Also note that the previous year the Wildcats got blown out by ND (42-15 in Chicago) and finished 3-7-1. Heading into 1995 the Wildcats hadn't won more than three games since 1986 (4-7) and hadn't finished above .500 since 1971 (7-4) so for them to knock off #9 Notre Dame on the road was unbelievable. Here were Northwestern's conference finishes the ten years prior to winning the league in 1994:
- 1985: 1-7, tied for last.
- 1986: 2-6, tied for second to last.
- 1987: 2-6, second to last.
- 1988: 2-5-1, tied for third to last.
- 1989: 0-8, last.
- 1990: 1-7, tied for second to last.
- 1991: 2-6, tied for second to last.
- 1992: 3-5, second to last.
- 1993: 0-8, tied for last.
- 1994: 2-6, second to last.
In the ten years prior to 1995 the Wildcats only won 15 BigTen (and Big11Ten) games. Then in 1995 they went 8-0.
I'll always remember it because a girl I knew at the time was at Miami and kept trying to tell me that Miami, OH was better than Notre Dame and the entire Big11Ten.
To be fair, the 1995 Wildcats had a bit of help from the schedule gods. They missed second place Ohio State (finished 7-1) and fifth place MSU (finished 4-3-1). Things would have been a little tougher missing Minnesota (finished 1-7) and either Illinois or Wisconsin (both finished 3-4-1).
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Actually all three of Northwestern's modern titles occurred on years where they both ducked OSU, and defeated Michigan.
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a wildcat may suggest that on their best seasons, the Buckeyes ducked the Cats
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Graham played at Northwestern immediately before and in the first years of WWII. His three teams went 5-3, 1-9, and 6-2 in 1941-1943. His Wildcat teams went 2-1 against Ohio State teams coached by Paul Brown which is why Paul Brown drafted him to play for the Cleveland Browns after the war.
Postwar, the Wildcats had a really good season in 1948 with an 8-2 record and a Rose Bowl win. They didn't actually win the league, but Michigan repeated and the "no repeat rule" was in effect. See side note on Rose Bowl below.
After that Rose Bowl win on January 1, 1949 (1948 season) the Wildcats did not play in another bowl game until January 1, 1996 (1995 season) when they lost the Rose Bowl to USC. They didn't win another bowl game until January 1, 2013 when they beat MissSt in the Gator Bowl.
In between their Rose Bowl seasons in 1948 and 1995 the Wildcats were flat awful, the worst in all of College Football. For the 46 years from 1949-1994 Northwestern was 135-325-8 0.297. Doormat is an understatement, here is their record against each of the teams that were in the Big Ten for at least most of that time:
- .105 against tOSU, 4-34
- .147 against M, 5-29
- .176 against Iowa, 6-28
- .194 against MSU, 7-29
- .212 against PU, 7-26
- .293 against UW, 13-32-1
- .333 against MN, 13-27-2
- .391 against IL, 17-27-2
- .462 against IU, 18-21
Northwestern was #7 in the final AP Poll for 1949 and #8 in the final AP Poll for 1995 but they were not ranked in any final poll between those two. The Wildcats were ranked just 42 times out of 643 polls from 1949 through 1994. Their ranking history from 1949-1994:
- 1949: Ranked #13 and #20 in two polls, otherwise unranked.
- 1950: Ranked #9 and #20 in two polls, otherwise unranked.
- 1951: Ranked #13 and #18 in two polls, otherwise unranked.
- 1952: not ranked.
- 1953: Ranked #18 in one poll, otherwise unranked.
- 1954-1957: not ranked.
- 1958: Ranked six times between #4 and #20, otherwise unranked.
- 1959: Ranked 10 times between #2 and #10, otherwise unranked.
- 1960: Ranked three times between #6 and #14, otherwise unranked.
- 1961: not ranked.
- 1962: Ranked five times between #1 and #9, otherwise unranked.
- 1963: Ranked five times between #4 and #10, otherwise unranked.
- 1964-1969: not ranked.
- 1970: Ranked four times between #18 and #20, otherwise unranked.
- 1971: Ranked #18 and #20 in two polls, otherwise unranked.
- 1972-1994: not ranked. NU was ranked #19 in the December 6, 1971 poll then fell out in the final poll. They did not appear again until September 12, 1995 when they appeared at #25. They started 1995 by stunning #9 Notre Dame in South Bend. That actually didn't get them ranked but they had a week off the next week then got in at #25 before losing to Miami, OH and falling back out again. Then they climbed all the way to #3 before losing to USC in the Rose Bowl to finish #8.
Another way to look at it is their record against Ohio State:
- .365, 9-16-1 from their first game (1913, tOSU's first year in the league) through 1948. That isn't great, but it isn't all that bad either.
- .094, 5-48 from 1949 through 2020. The five wins were:
- 2004 in Evanston
- 1971 in Columbus
- 1963 in Columbus
- 1962 in Columbus
- 1958 in Evanston
The Wildcats lost 24 straight to the Buckeyes between their wins in 1971 and 2004 and since their win in 2004 they have lost nine straight.
Side note on the Rose Bowl:
The BigTen/Pac8/10 Rose Bowl agreement started immediately after the war, for the 1946 season. Prior to that the game was generally the Pac Champion against the best Eastern team they could get. Ie, the 1946 Rose Bowl (1945 season) was USC vs #2 Bama.
The BigTen dominated in the early years, winning six straight (1947-1952) and twelve of the first 13 (1947-1959). In those first 13 years of the agreement the BigTen teams were:
- 3-0 Ohio State
- 2-0 Iowa
- 2-0 Michigan State
- 2-0 Illinois
- 2-0 Michigan
- 1-0 Northwestern
- 0-1 Wisconsin
- Purdue, Minnesota, and Indiana did not appear.
For the next ten years the Rose Bowl was evenly matched with each conference winning five times. In those 10 years (1960-1969) the BigTen teams were:
- 1-0 Ohio State
- 1-0 Illinois
- 1-0 Purdue
- 1-0 Michigan
- 1-1 Minnesota
- 0-1 Michigan State
- 0-1 Indiana
- 0-2 Wisconsin
- Northwestern and Iowa did not appear.
For the next 18 years the Pac dominated, winning 16 of 18 from 1970-1987. In those 18 years the BigTen teams were:
- 1-6 Ohio State
- 1-7 Michigan
- 0-1 Illinois
- 0-2 Iowa
- Michigan State, Indiana, Purdue, Northwestern, Wisconsin, and Minnesota did not appear.
For the next 14 years the BigTen then Big11Ten did very well, going 9-5 before the BCS began to interfere with the historic matchup. In those 14 years (1988-2001) the BigTen and Big11Ten teams were:
- 3-0 Wisconsin
- 1-0 Ohio State
- 1-0 Michigan State
- 1-0 Penn State
- 3-2 Michigan
- 0-1 Northwestern
- 0-2 Iowa
- Minnesota, Purdue, Indiana, and Illinois did not appear.
This was a very interesting post with a lot of good information.
Just 1 minor thing. The only thing that confused me was showing Iowa was 0-2 in the Rose Bowl from 1988-2001. I am pretty sure Iowa only went once in that time frame, losing the game of course, to go 0-1
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. . .
Northwestern was #7 in the final AP Poll for 1949 and #8 in the final AP Poll for 1995 but they were not ranked in any final poll between those two. The Wildcats were ranked just 42 times out of 643 polls from 1949 through 1994. Their ranking history from 1949-1994:
- 1949: Ranked #13 and #20 in two polls, otherwise unranked.
- 1950: Ranked #9 and #20 in two polls, otherwise unranked.
- 1951: Ranked #13 and #18 in two polls, otherwise unranked.
- 1952: not ranked.
- 1953: Ranked #18 in one poll, otherwise unranked.
- 1954-1957: not ranked.
- 1958: Ranked six times between #4 and #20, otherwise unranked.
- 1959: Ranked 10 times between #2 and #10, otherwise unranked.
- 1960: Ranked three times between #6 and #14, otherwise unranked.
- 1961: not ranked.
- 1962: Ranked five times between #1 and #9, otherwise unranked.
- 1963: Ranked five times between #4 and #10, otherwise unranked.
- 1964-1969: not ranked.
- 1970: Ranked four times between #18 and #20, otherwise unranked.
- 1971: Ranked #18 and #20 in two polls, otherwise unranked.
- 1972-1994: not ranked. NU was ranked #19 in the December 6, 1971 poll then fell out in the final poll. They did not appear again until September 12, 1995 when they appeared at #25. They started 1995 by stunning #9 Notre Dame in South Bend. That actually didn't get them ranked but they had a week off the next week then got in at #25 before losing to Miami, OH and falling back out again. Then they climbed all the way to #3 before losing to USC in the Rose Bowl to finish #8. . . .
Bud Wilkinson's 3rd-worst and worst Sooner teams helped Northwestern get off to 1-0 starts in 1959 and 1960. Ara Parseghian was the Wildcats' HFC both years.
The '59 game is famous in OU lore for the whole team coming down sick in Evanston. As the "story" goes, the mob had bet big on NU, so some food poisoning was introduced into the meals served at the hotel where they stayed. The #10 ranked Wildcats won 45-13 over the #2 Sooners, who finished 7-3.
The '60 game was in Norman, with OU unranked, NU ranked #14. The Wildcats won 19-3. The Sooners went on to finish 3-6-1 for the season.
The two schools also played in 1997, the 2nd of John Blake's 3 miserable seasons in Norman. The game was in Chicago--Soldier Field, I assume--and the Wildcats won 24-0.
So OU has an all-time record of 1-3 vs. Northwestern. The only win was 23-0 in 1939, when neither team was ranked.
We need a rematch. I hereby throw down the gauntlet. Home-and-home, baby!
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(https://media.tenor.com/images/925ad334c2114310cf8cd3b947fa8a7f/tenor.gif)
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love the single vote for Rutgers
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This was a very interesting post with a lot of good information.
Just 1 minor thing. The only thing that confused me was showing Iowa was 0-2 in the Rose Bowl from 1988-2001. I am pretty sure Iowa only went once in that time frame, losing the game of course, to go 0-1
You are right. I somehow "credited" Purdue's loss to Iowa.
I'll fix it.