CFB51 College Football Fan Community
The Power Five => Big Ten => Topic started by: medinabuckeye1 on October 22, 2020, 01:56:33 AM
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If you have never experienced this disease within your family, consider yourself very fortunate.
They call it the long goodbye and it is. It is losing someone in slow motion. I've been watching my dad slip away for better than a decade. I know plenty of guys who have lost their dads and I'm not envious of them. @847badgerfan (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=5) talked about his experience with that a while back. I'm now in this bizarre in between where my dad is still physically with us but for all practical purposes, I've already lost him.
I've been watching Ohio State football games with my dad since the Michigan State game on September 13, 1975 when I was just a few months old (Ohio State won 21-0). He took me to my first Ohio State game. He and my brother and I watched the Buckeyes play in all 14 B1G stadiums plus the Rose Bowl. Some of you met him on some of those trips.
Saturday afternoon he and my brother and I are going to watch the Nebraska game together. My brother and I will talk about meeting @FearlessF (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=10) in Lincoln back in 2011 but dad won't remember that.
Unfortunately, Saturday will probably be the last time I get to watch an Ohio State game with my dad. His disease has progressed to the point where my mom can't handle it and she fired the home health aids that my brother and I arranged for (don't get me started on that mess) so dad is about to be moved into a memory care unit at an assisted living facility.
Even in pre-COVID times this is a big event but it is even bigger in this pandemic. We can't go there to watch games with him and if we "check him out" for a game he has to quarantine for 14 days.
I don't want this to be a thread of everyone feeling sorry for Medina, but I consider you my friends and I have some advice for anyone who finds themselves heading down this road with a family member.
First:
When you start to think that maybe they shouldn't be driving anymore, you probably should have taken their keys a long time ago.
I'm not going to sugar coat this, taking dad's license was a horrible experience. My dad was the kind of guy who swore maybe once a year. I heard him swear more when we took away his license than I did the whole time I was growing up and I deserved those.
With that said, the difficulty of taking his license away was nothing compared to how horrible I would have felt if he had run someone over after I knew he shouldn't have been driving. Don't put yourself in that position.
Second:
The person suffering from dementia/alzheimers just doesn't see their limitations. The best example I have is that not long after we took his license I took him to an appointment with his Cardiologist. While in the waiting room he was ranting and raving about not being allowed to drive. It was BAD. He had his coat in one hand and the hanger in the other and he literally could not figure out how to get the coat on the hanger. He interrupted himself in mid-sentence of raving about not being able to drive to hand me the coat and hanger and say "here, you do this" then kept on raving about not being able to drive.
I'm not laughing at my dad here, but the situation was hilarious. I just looked at him thinking " you can't operate a coat hanger and you think I should put you behind the wheel of an 8,500 gvwr truck that we plow snow with?" I didn't actually say that to him, obviously.
Third:
You have to learn to deflect and divert. This also, as a practical matter, involves lying to the patient. For years every time I visited dad would tell me that he needed me to help him get his John Deer garden tractor set up with the plow/mower and it took me a while to learn that the best way to handle it was to tell him that my brother and I would do it "next weekend". "Next weekend" never came because it wasn't safe for him to operate that machine.
Fourth:
Fake keys. I got this idea from my neighbor. If they obsess about wanting keys for house/car/whatever go get a handful of blanks and give them those.
Fifth:
Most important, enjoy every day that you have with them.
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Well written Medina. And accurate.
My Dad was my dude. That guy taught me how to fish, play golf, be successful in business, play football, baseball, basketball. He taught me how to Treat people with generosity and respect and dignity, especially women. He taught me how to run a business and the guy never took a nap in his life. If there was a crack in the driveway he poured the cement. If mom wanted a new deck built in the backyard he dug the holes, put in the posts and build the deck. And on and on.
His Parkinson’s, which brought on dementia, slowly took him away and killed him but by the end it was is if only his body was there anyway. It was extremely painful to watch.
I’m thankful every day for what he gave me and the 80 years he graced this place.
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Damn, that's rough. I feel for you Medina (and HB).
Honestly, I don't know what is worse. A long, slow death or a massive heart attack (my dad) going fast.
Not having a chance to say goodbye still sits with me, 8 years later. So I don't know.
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Damn, that's rough. I feel for you Medina (and HB).
Honestly, I don't know what is worse. A long, slow death or a massive heart attack (my dad) going fast.
Not having a chance to say goodbye still sits with me, 8 years later. So I don't know.
My mother unfortunately ended up in it's grips.And she was sharp as a tack,and a kind soul and a I shook my fist at the heavens many times for it.I'd rather exit quickly,good luck MB make sure there are no obstacles he could trip/fall on or from.The condition complicates that problem
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I had an Uncle that passed away from this about a month ago. His wife was my father's sister, so not a blood uncle but one by marriage.
His was pretty quick. About 5 years ago it was becoming noticeable. He'd ask you what you had to eat about five minutes after you just got done telling him about it. Fast forward a few years, and he doesn't even recognize his own children. My aunt also has an adult daughter that lives with her due to mental incompetency. So they made quite the trio. My 80 year old aunt would have to drive them both around and order their food at a restaurant. She had to do all of the thinking for all three of them.
There was a certain card game that he liked, he remembered how to play it all the way up until the bitter end, and he really had a great time playing it. He would start cracking jokes and interacting on a fairly normal level again. So I recommend trying this. Break out the Uno cards or whatever game they might like, and see if they can still play. If it works, you won't regret it.
My Aunt never put him into a care facility. She wouldn't hear of it. It was admirable, but might have led to an earlier demise as he eventually fell down the stairs a few months back and only lived about six weeks after that. But he got to die at home surrounded by loved ones. We just buried him last week.
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Very familiar scenario Medina w my Mom's Dad, especially the driving. He ended up, legally speaking, at least, stealing a car. I remember tracking him down, we knew it was him, going over curbs, etc. He threatened anybody who got in his way by getting in their faces.
My Mom tells us all the time, don't come see me if/ when she gets like this. Whats the point. Don't!
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Medina,
I really appreciate you meeting with me on your trip to Lincoln back then. Moments and memories like those are what life is all about.
I don't think there's a "better" way to lose someone, quickly or slowly. Maybe better for some people that deal with loss differently.
Hang in there!
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Very familiar scenario Medina w my Mom's Dad, especially the driving. He ended up, legally speaking, at least, stealing a car. I remember tracking him down, we knew it was him, going over curbs, etc. He threatened anybody who got in his way by getting in their faces.
My Mom tells us all the time, don't come see me if/ when she gets like this. Whats the point. Don't!
My mother does this too. I think she does it with a little gallows humor, but it's likely closer than we'd like to admit.
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Having lost both parents and missing them dearly, I advise to spend as much time as you can with them while they are here and able.
My buddy lost his dad recently to this same thing. The man was a shell of himself, but he was still kind. He was in the harbor every weekend until he couldn't, and even though he couldn't remember much, he always remembered his neighbors at the harbor (me and Mrs. 847 particularly, and some others).
When he no longer could, he was in memory care. He passed in March (not Covid). My buddy is a saint for giving his dad 3 really good years after the wife passed.
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I don't want this to be a thread of everyone feeling sorry for Medina, but I consider you my friends and I have some advice for anyone who finds themselves heading down this road with a family member.
I read this, and my heart damn near broke.
Many moons ago, I talked to a college professor about loss (a person I'd been very friendly with a few years earlier died at 22) wondering what a dope like me could write on a card to a family that just lost a kid. Her advice was that it didn't really matter what I wrote, it just mattered that you said something at all.
Saying sorry, offering prayers, all of that is just an imprecise way to emotionally buttress someone. I won't do it here, but just know, and I hope I speak for everyone here, when I say we want to, in whatever small ways we can, buttress you emotionally, spiritually and in other ways.
I watched the kind of thing your describing secondhand through 13-year-old eyes. My grandma had lived alone for probably a decade and a half after my grandfather died. She was fiercely independent and held a job helping out at a library. It had many of the same hallmarks. An intense battle over the car until the DMV revoked a licence because of bad vision (and there was an incident or two before the car was taken). That moment when family realized that behavior we'd written off as quirky personality change was a sign of something else.
She never ended up in a place. She was deteriorating, but change is so gradual than no one really thought it all the way through until right near the end or after. Her two kids burned through vacation days, got grandkids up early so a friend could take them to school, in an effort to be de facto live-in caregivers for the last 4-6 months. They didn't know it was the last six months at the time, but we all just trudged forward doing what needed to happen day by day.
In my limited experience, I've only been close to cases where the person in that spot is alone, which is a whole different dynamic. It seems like not being alone robs the whole situation of a certain clarity, and I can't begin to imagine that. I know this will probably be something I deal with. My parents tell me they've accepted the likelihood of ending up in a home, but I know when the day comes, the reason they have to go will rob them of that perspective. Anyway, may God keep you and yours through this.
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Great post BaB.
And yes, you speak for all of us.
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Thanks for posting (the OP) with the very useful advice. My mom faded but it was due to atherosclerosis, and she lived to 93. She was in a home for the last 3 years after my dad passed (at 93). I was not very close to my dad, especially later in life. I was probably less close to my mom than is typical. My parents were very reserved and unemotional about just about anything. I don't think they knew how to interact with someone else emotionally.
My wife greatly fears this happening to her. She wants out, she says, if she gets bad. And of course none of us want anything like this to happen to us, but something likely will. You can pass quickly or not, and the not can be bad.
I don't think about it much frankly. I try and be positive about life. I no longer have parents or uncles and aunts for whom this is a possible issue.
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I lost my grandmother to Alzheimer's. The hardest part for me was to see my family fight over how to manage her end of life and her meager possessions.
Condolences Medina.
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My grandfather (dad's side) had Alzheimers. It had started out as little things, but it started getting worse after about a year or two. He "retired" from engineering to become a farmer in NC (while I was living in California), but I spent a couple of months out there one summer helping work the farm. I remember that one day he had to go run an errand and there was a phone call at the house that I answered. The phone call was from a church member who was double checking as to whether my grandfather was ready to speak at the funeral that day. When my grandfather returned home, I forgot to tell him about the call for about 20 minutes, and he nearly screamed at me (which he had NEVER done before) for not telling him sooner. I was probably about 14 at the time, and I didn't realize till years later that he wasn't mad at me, he was mad at himself, because he had forgotten that his best friend of 10 years had died four days before.
Unfortunately, he suffered a stroke shortly after that. It was downhill quickly from there. I visited him in the hospital a few times, but he was just a shell of the man I remember. He could barely speak, and I don't think he ever recognized me (though he still knew my dad). What was interesting is that he could still sing. He still remembered the tunes and words for songs that he had sung with his shipmates from the Merchant Marines back in WW2. He also apparently remembered how to swear like a sailor too (which I had never heard him do before then).
The worst were his "good" days. Some days, he would have enough cognizance to realize where he was, and what he had lost. Those are the days that he would cry and be nearly inconsolable. His "bad" days were better because at least he was a little happy.
My grandmother was a registered nurse, so she would spend at least 5 hours a day at the memory care unit with him (and then still ran the farm). Sadly, about 6 months after my grandfather entered the facility, she had a massive coronary that killed her in her sleep. So I have seen both sides of the "is it better to go fast or slow" spectrum. If I had to give a preference, I think fast is better. It's more of a shock up front, but in the long run, it's easier to greave and move on. "Fortunately", my grandfather passed only a couple of months after that.
I know that my father shares my opinion on this. Going out like that is one of the things he fears more than anything. He has already specifically told me that if the options on the table are to live like my grandfather for a year or to pull the plug, I am to pull the plug.
I am very much hoping to never have to make that decision.
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Damn, that's rough. I feel for you Medina (and HB).
Honestly, I don't know what is worse. A long, slow death or a massive heart attack (my dad) going fast.
Not having a chance to say goodbye still sits with me, 8 years later. So I don't know.
Others have chimed in and honestly, I don't know. My dad has had several heart attacks and I'll be forever thankful for the modern medicine that has kept him alive these last 20 years since the first one. His dad died of a heart attack at age 60 in 1970. Back then they didn't have stents so the only option was open heart surgery and it was very risky. My dad has five stents and those surgeries were no big deal.
My dad always told me about his last conversation with his dad. My dad had gone to breakfast with his dad that morning and talked with his dad and then that afternoon his dad had a heart attack at work and died in the hospital that evening. I was thinking about this the other day and I realized that I really have no recollection of the last REAL conversation I had with my dad.
I saw my dad today. The Kiwanis Club that he has been a member of for 40 years meets for lunch on Thursdays and I took him to the parking lot as the meeting ended so that he could see people (and they could see him). On the way there Harry Chapin's "Cats in the Cradle" came on the radio and I just about lost it. Anyway, I obviously talked with him today, but it wasn't a REAL conversation with my dad. That is the weirdness of this disease. He is there. I saw him today. I helped him get dressed and in the car and I gave him a hug when I left, but that wasn't my dad.
In a way I wish I had that last conversation to hold on to but in another way I'm glad I've had this time to say goodbye slowly and come to grips with it. Bottom line, either way sucks.
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Well written Medina. And accurate.
My Dad was my dude. That guy taught me how to fish, play golf, be successful in business, play football, baseball, basketball. He taught me how to Treat people with generosity and respect and dignity, especially women. He taught me how to run a business and the guy never took a nap in his life. If there was a crack in the driveway he poured the cement. If mom wanted a new deck built in the backyard he dug the holes, put in the posts and build the deck. And on and on.
His Parkinson’s, which brought on dementia, slowly took him away and killed him but by the end it was is if only his body was there anyway. It was extremely painful to watch.
I’m thankful every day for what he gave me and the 80 years he graced this place.
Thanks HB. That sounds a lot like my dad. He taught me how to build decks, replace water heaters, wire houses, you name it. And it is extremely painful to watch. Now the guy who taught me how to balance circuits and wire a house can't operate a switch half the time.
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My mother unfortunately ended up in it's grips.And she was sharp as a tack,and a kind soul and a I shook my fist at the heavens many times for it.I'd rather exit quickly,good luck MB make sure there are no obstacles he could trip/fall on or from.The condition complicates that problem
Thanks Nubbz and that is good advice. People who haven't been through it don't realize that it isn't just memory and forgetting names, it impacts hand-eye coordination and motor skills in a MAJOR way as well. My dad is unsteady on his feet now just like my 19 month old, but my 19 month old obviously has a lot better ability to fall without hurting himself.
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I had an Uncle that passed away from this about a month ago. His wife was my father's sister, so not a blood uncle but one by marriage.
His was pretty quick. About 5 years ago it was becoming noticeable. He'd ask you what you had to eat about five minutes after you just got done telling him about it. Fast forward a few years, and he doesn't even recognize his own children. My aunt also has an adult daughter that lives with her due to mental incompetency. So they made quite the trio. My 80 year old aunt would have to drive them both around and order their food at a restaurant. She had to do all of the thinking for all three of them.
There was a certain card game that he liked, he remembered how to play it all the way up until the bitter end, and he really had a great time playing it. He would start cracking jokes and interacting on a fairly normal level again. So I recommend trying this. Break out the Uno cards or whatever game they might like, and see if they can still play. If it works, you won't regret it.
My Aunt never put him into a care facility. She wouldn't hear of it. It was admirable, but might have led to an earlier demise as he eventually fell down the stairs a few months back and only lived about six weeks after that. But he got to die at home surrounded by loved ones. We just buried him last week.
Sorry to hear that @Brutus Buckeye (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=31) . That is good advice about the card game but my dad never liked cards. I'll try to think of something similar.
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Very familiar scenario Medina w my Mom's Dad, especially the driving. He ended up, legally speaking, at least, stealing a car. I remember tracking him down, we knew it was him, going over curbs, etc. He threatened anybody who got in his way by getting in their faces.
My Mom tells us all the time, don't come see me if/ when she gets like this. Whats the point. Don't!
I get that sentiment. That is one of the major downsides about seeing someone go like this. When someone dies suddenly it is easier to remember them in their prime. Once my dad passes on I'll have to remind myself to remember him as the guy who taught me so many things and did so much not the feeble old invalid who couldn't remember my name or who I was.
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Medina,
I really appreciate you meeting with me on your trip to Lincoln back then. Moments and memories like those are what life is all about.
I don't think there's a "better" way to lose someone, quickly or slowly. Maybe better for some people that deal with loss differently.
Hang in there!
Thanks @FearlessF (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=10) . We really enjoyed that trip. We enjoyed all of trips to B1G stadiums but it was better meeting local fans and hanging out at a local tailgate. Thanks for being such a great host! My brother and I will see if dad remembers that during the game on Saturday.
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I read this, and my heart damn near broke.
Many moons ago, I talked to a college professor about loss (a person I'd been very friendly with a few years earlier died at 22) wondering what a dope like me could write on a card to a family that just lost a kid. Her advice was that it didn't really matter what I wrote, it just mattered that you said something at all.
Saying sorry, offering prayers, all of that is just an imprecise way to emotionally buttress someone. I won't do it here, but just know, and I hope I speak for everyone here, when I say we want to, in whatever small ways we can, buttress you emotionally, spiritually and in other ways.
I watched the kind of thing your describing secondhand through 13-year-old eyes. My grandma had lived alone for probably a decade and a half after my grandfather died. She was fiercely independent and held a job helping out at a library. It had many of the same hallmarks. An intense battle over the car until the DMV revoked a licence because of bad vision (and there was an incident or two before the car was taken). That moment when family realized that behavior we'd written off as quirky personality change was a sign of something else.
She never ended up in a place. She was deteriorating, but change is so gradual than no one really thought it all the way through until right near the end or after. Her two kids burned through vacation days, got grandkids up early so a friend could take them to school, in an effort to be de facto live-in caregivers for the last 4-6 months. They didn't know it was the last six months at the time, but we all just trudged forward doing what needed to happen day by day.
In my limited experience, I've only been close to cases where the person in that spot is alone, which is a whole different dynamic. It seems like not being alone robs the whole situation of a certain clarity, and I can't begin to imagine that. I know this will probably be something I deal with. My parents tell me they've accepted the likelihood of ending up in a home, but I know when the day comes, the reason they have to go will rob them of that perspective. Anyway, may God keep you and yours through this.
Thank you BaB.
The DMV here in Ohio didn't do us the favor of doing their freaking job and taking his license. I went with him for his last license renewal. He failed the vision test badly. The test administrator has a button they push that flashes a light on either the left or right to test peripheral vision. My dad had ZERO peripheral vision and didn't see the light so the DMV employee said "Do you see that light?". Then, when he said "no", they told him which side it was on. He then pulled his head out of the thing, turned to that side and said "Oh, I see that light." and they passed him!
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I lost my grandmother to Alzheimer's. The hardest part for me was to see my family fight over how to manage her end of life and her meager possessions.
Condolences Medina.
Yeah, that can be worse than the loss sometimes. I remember reading some of those cases in lawschool and it was heartbreaking because you just knew that the last thing the deceased would have wanted was for their kids to be at each other's throats in court over their stuff.
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MB perhaps I missed it where is he staying now with Family or Health care
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My grandfather (dad's side) had Alzheimers. It had started out as little things, but it started getting worse after about a year or two. He "retired" from engineering to become a farmer in NC (while I was living in California), but I spent a couple of months out there one summer helping work the farm. I remember that one day he had to go run an errand and there was a phone call at the house that I answered. The phone call was from a church member who was double checking as to whether my grandfather was ready to speak at the funeral that day. When my grandfather returned home, I forgot to tell him about the call for about 20 minutes, and he nearly screamed at me (which he had NEVER done before) for not telling him sooner. I was probably about 14 at the time, and I didn't realize till years later that he wasn't mad at me, he was mad at himself, because he had forgotten that his best friend of 10 years had died four days before.
This really touched home for me. My dad did things like that numerous times. He NEVER had a short temper before this (and believe me, as a kid I tested that) but then all of a sudden with Alzheimer's, he would scream and swear like a sailor.
The worst were his "good" days. Some days, he would have enough cognizance to realize where he was, and what he had lost. Those are the days that he would cry and be nearly inconsolable. His "bad" days were better because at least he was a little happy.
This is also oh-too-familiar. In a way it is better now that he is worse because, as you explained, he doesn't realize where he is and what he has lost.
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MB perhaps I missed it where is he staying now with Family or Health care
He is still at home with my mom right now but it is beyond her. We are working on getting him into a facility ASAP. That is why Saturday's game will likely be the last that my brother and I can watch with him. Once he is in the home we can't visit that long or check him out for a game due to COVID.
We might be able to do things with him once COVID passes (hopefully next summer) but we don't know if he'll hang on that long and with the way dementia/alzheimer's progresses even if he does he'll be that much less coherent.
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I lost my grandmother to Alzheimer's. The hardest part for me was to see my family fight over how to manage her end of life and her meager possessions.
Condolences Medina.
Of the 5 siblings my one brother from out of town thought she was just fine and even was in denial when she had a minor fender bender.A blessing in disguise as then we told mom the courts took her License but she had a shuttle where we moved her,so she got out just fine and made friends fast.Unfortunately she fell and broke her hip and that was a game changer then the condition declined by leaps/bounds.Had to prove to the one brother that she hit someone.Came close to dis owning him as he was in denial,fortunately no one argued over the estate much of it absorbed by health care
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My mother unfortunately ended up in it's grips.And she was sharp as a tack,and a kind soul and a I shook my fist at the heavens many times for it.I'd rather exit quickly,good luck MB make sure there are no obstacles he could trip/fall on or from.The condition complicates that problem
Yeah, that's what ended things for my last living grandparent. She had dementia for a couple of years and one day, getting out of the car, tripped and just bashed her head on the driveway. She died a few days later. I arrived a few hours before she passed.
My aunt had been caring for her in her home with 3 teenage daughters. She's a saint for doing that, because in a 2-day visit it was hard for me to experience my grandma being totally off like that.
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I consider myself lucky that I haven't been that close to it personally. I had a grandmother losing it at the end, to the point that the last time I saw her (my other grandma's funeral) she repeated the same story to me three times. But she knew who I was, at least.
My wife's best friend lost her mom to early onset Alzheimer's. That was obviously rough for all involved. My wife has such great stories about her, but by the time I met my wife she was already so far gone that that woman no longer existed. She was the one that taught my wife how to make meatloaf, "how much do I put in? Until it looks right!", and my wife paid it forward teaching my son Rachel's meatloaf "recipe". She eventually I think had a fall and ended up with a brain bleed, and she was just so far gone that surgery [even if it kept her alive] wouldn't really improve her life, so they had to put her on hospice and just let her go.
I'd say that in most cases it's probably better to have someone pass from a disease where you have some warning than to pass suddenly, but I think Alzheimer's is the exception. Because you can't really effectively say goodbye to someone who no longer inhabits the body that's breathing before you.
Medina, my thoughts are with you, brother. Good luck, and sorry you [or anyone] ever has to deal with this.
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I'd say that in most cases it's probably better to have someone pass from a disease where you have some warning than to pass suddenly, but I think Alzheimer's is the exception. Because you can't really effectively say goodbye to someone who no longer inhabits the body that's breathing before you.
I think it's to a degree case by case. If someone if in pain for a year, unable to do anything, that's one thing. If they can make it to a big life moment or travel, it's different. If it's sudden, it might be better for the person, worse for those around them.
In any case, it's almost always brutal all the way around.
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I feel for everyone who has watched a parent or loved one go through this. Truly heartbreaking
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Of the 5 siblings my one brother from out of town thought she was just fine and even was in denial when she had a minor fender bender.A blessing in disguise as then we told mom the courts took her License but she had a shuttle where we moved her,so she got out just fine and made friends fast.Unfortunately she fell and broke her hip and that was a game changer then the condition declined by leaps/bounds.Had to prove to the one brother that she hit someone.Came close to dis owning him as he was in denial,fortunately no one argued over the estate much of it absorbed by health care
That is part of the problem with my mom vis-a-vis Dad's care. She is right there, closer than any of us but for a long time she was just in denial. There is no other way to describe it. Dad didn't know where he was and she was still trying to get him to do chores and wondering why he couldn't get them done.
It is very hard to accept that this man who taught me so many things now literally can't operate a coat hanger. It is also weird having a year-and-a-half year old son who is literally learning the things that dad is forgetting. Dealing with the two of them has gotten eerily similar as my son grows and learns and my dad declines and forgets.
More advice:
In the beginning you are going to get frustrated with them. Try not to take it out on them but sometimes (especially early on) you'll forget that they have an incurable disease and get mad that they screwed up whatever it was. Don't beat yourself up too much for that, just learn from it and move on.
I remember early on my dad was installing a screen door. As home repairs go, this is reasonably easy. Dad taught me how many years ago and I've probably installed dozens of them over the years. Anyway, he called me and asked me to help. I stopped by thinking I would only be there a few minutes because the only part of that job that is really a two-man job is the actual installation after the door is ready to hang because you need one guy to hold the door in place while the other guy screws it to the door frame.
PRO TIP:
Screen doors ship set up to be either right-handed or left-handed and with the hardware needing to be attached. Typically you set up the door and attach the latch/closer/etc with the door on saw-horses in the front yard, then hang the door when you are all done. Your natural inclination will probably be to hold the door at the frame, then turn around and lay the door on the saw-horses to get it ready. DO NOT do it that way. When you do it that way the door is backwards from the opening so as you get it ready to install you have to keep mentally flipping the image of the door. Instead, set the door up in the front yard with the top of the door toward the house. That way the door is exactly as it will be when finally installed. You can see where everything goes much more easily because it is all straight forward and right in front of you instead of backwards and behind you.
Anyway, back to my story. I arrived and my dad (who taught me how to install screen doors) had screwed this door up six ways to Sunday. He had the closer mounted to the outside of the door, the inside latch was backwards, the outside latch was upside down, etc. I had to undo everything he had done, then redo it the right way. At the time I was frustrated (mostly because I had a date with my (now) wife that evening). I razzed dad about the screw up like we always razzed each other about things like that when he was younger but this was different. He hadn't just messed it up because he was in a hurry, he couldn't figure it out.
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I consider myself lucky that I haven't been that close to it personally. I had a grandmother losing it at the end, to the point that the last time I saw her (my other grandma's funeral) she repeated the same story to me three times. But she knew who I was, at least.
My wife's best friend lost her mom to early onset Alzheimer's. That was obviously rough for all involved. My wife has such great stories about her, but by the time I met my wife she was already so far gone that that woman no longer existed. She was the one that taught my wife how to make meatloaf, "how much do I put in? Until it looks right!", and my wife paid it forward teaching my son Rachel's meatloaf "recipe". She eventually I think had a fall and ended up with a brain bleed, and she was just so far gone that surgery [even if it kept her alive] wouldn't really improve her life, so they had to put her on hospice and just let her go.
I'd say that in most cases it's probably better to have someone pass from a disease where you have some warning than to pass suddenly, but I think Alzheimer's is the exception. Because you can't really effectively say goodbye to someone who no longer inhabits the body that's breathing before you.
Medina, my thoughts are with you, brother. Good luck, and sorry you [or anyone] ever has to deal with this.
That must have been horrible for your wife's best friend. My dad is 80 and this is bad enough but to see it with someone younger who would otherwise have plenty of life left would be even worse.
The part of your comment that I bolded is oh-so-true. Not only can you not effectively say goodbye to someone who no longer inhabits the body that's breathing before you, but it also doesn't even seem appropriate to the extent that you can. In a way my dad is long gone but physically he is still, to paraphrase you, inhabiting the body that's breathing before me. This disease also varies greatly from person to person. Many alzheimer's patients die of some other ailment perhaps only marginally related to the underlying alzheimer's like your wife's friend's mother. Others can continue to linger and decline for years. I've talked to people whose experience with it was short and I've talked to people who had a "technically living" relative who didn't know who they were for a decade or more.
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Don't know if Marysville is within the distance of assisted living that you are looking for, but my firm helped design Walnut Crossing which had a decent looking Memory Care wing.
https://www.walnutcrossingliving.com/living-options/memory-care/
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Don't know if Marysville is within the distance of assisted living that you are looking for, but my firm helped design Walnut Crossing which had a decent looking Memory Care wing.
https://www.walnutcrossingliving.com/living-options/memory-care/
Thank you, but too far for us.
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Bumping for an update:
We didn't end up moving dad to Assisted Living yet because with the pandemic there are risks involved and because if he goes in, his five grandchildren (my brother's three kids are 6, 4, and 2; my two are 21 months and 3 months) would probably never get to see him again.
My brother and I did watch most of Ohio State's games with him this season so that is good but unfortunately, he has no idea what is going on. He is happy to be with us watching a game but he can't follow it. Throughout the game he'll keep asking who is playing, who is winning, what is going on, etc.
We now have 24x7 home healthcare but dad has deteriorated. I had squad take him to the ER last month because his heart was acting up. He was in A-Fib and it took them almost a week of tweaking medications to get his heart rhythm back to right.
About 2-3 days after he was discharged from the Hospital, he came down with a fever, cough, shortness of breath, etc. We were worried that he had gotten COVID in the hospital. We went to the Doc and got a COVID test which was negative. They did a chest X-ray and found fluid in the lungs so they thought it was pneumonia and put him on a seven day course of antibiotics to kick the pneumonia. A week and a half later another chest X-Ray still showed fluid so the Doc gave him another 14 days of antibiotics still thinking it was pneumonia.
Earlier this week I spent a lot of time texting back and forth with the home health aids to get his vitals (blood oxygen, BP, pulse, etc) then calling those in to the Doc to get advice. Finally yesterday I took him back to the ER on the advice of the Doc because they couldn't figure out what was wrong without tests that he would need to be in the hospital for.
I never thought I'd make this statement, but unfortunately it is not pneumonia. The fluid in his lungs isn't due to some temporary infection that can be cured with a course of antibiotics (pneumonia), it is a byproduct of his congestive heart failure which the ICU Doc I just talked with now refers to as "end stage".
Years ago we talked about a DNR. It wasn't an emotional thing for me at all because we were in a lawyer's office and the whole thing was an intangible, hypothetical issue. Today I stood next to my dad's hospital bed while a Doctor stood across the bed from me and asked me if they should attempt to resuscitate him if his heart stops. Worse, the "if" in that question sounded more like a "when" because apparently his heart rhythm still isn't right and it is doing something that frequently results in cardiac arrest.
This is no longer an intangible hypothetical. That was all too real and hit me like a ton of bricks. The pandemic makes it immeasurably worse because my mom and brother are not in the hospital with me and can't even visit. Due to the COVID spike the hospital only allows one visitor (not just at a time, one for the duration of the stay) and I am the designated visitor.
Fourty-five years ago my dad drove me home from the hospital and that was my first car ride. Yesterday evening I drove him to that same hospital and right now it looks like that may well have been his last car ride. Life has an odd symmetry sometimes.
The progressing dementia and the ongoing congestive heart failure unfortunately exacerbate each other. The dementia is made worse by the limited blood flow and blood oxygenation and the CHF is made more difficult to treat by the fact that the patient is almost completely unable to articulate what he is feeling at the present time let alone to be able to talk about what he felt five minutes ago.
Enjoy every day.
My dad always used to say "Try to make the world a little better place for your having been here." Do that.
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My sympathy goes out to you, old friend.
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you have my sympathy as well. Tough duty for sure
Take a small solace in that I'm sure your Dad made the world a little better place
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Very tough set of circumstances MB,as previously stated my mom went thru this sans the threat of covid.Your dad is fortunate to have a tight family - he did a good job.Just know that even if you could have everyone there,every day he really wouldn't know it.Everything that was possible and with in reason has been done,best wishes
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He raised you right MB, the world is a better place for his efforts.
My condolences friend.
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Great OP, Medina, and great discussion.
I lost a friend of 16 years last spring. He had very mild Parkinson's when I met him. It got progressively worse, of course, and then came the associated Lewy body dementia. Today, cleaning out my car, I found the receipt for the last time I took Saturday lunch to him in memory care. It was from On the Border Mexican Grill and Cantina. A burrito dinner for me, an enchilada dinner for him. He loved Mexican food, barbecue, pizza, and hamburgers from small, family-owned burger joints. I can't drive anywhere in the Tulsa metro area without passing some little restaurant we hit once, twice, or 50 times.
My mother has been drifting into dementia for over five years and now she's really there and deteriorating rapidly. When we finally took the car keys from her about 3-1/2 years ago, it was past the time we should have done that. Fortunately, she hadn't hurt anybody. We're moving her at the end of the month from an apartment at a senior apartment complex to a much smaller one at a nice complex that accommodates a transition from independent living to assisted living to memory care. A couple of years ago, I though she could live for another 10 years. Now, I'm not sure if she'll last another 10 months.
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Feel horrible for you, but I'm glad you could be there for him.
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Been praying for you Medina.
My son passed Michigan week 2012. I know in the grand scheme of life Football is pretty insignificant, but during that game it was the first time I smiled. Death is hard, confusing, sad and frustrating all mixed together. Look for those things that can bring you and your family some comfort as you figure out the new normal.
For me it was Buckeye football. If you are up for it, keep giving us updates, and we, these semi-anonymous internet friends, will keep responding. Hope you can take some moments of solace Monday night.
Cheers, and Best Wishes.
Ty
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My mother has been drifting into dementia for over five years and now she's really there and deteriorating rapidly. When we finally took the car keys from her about 3-1/2 years ago, it was past the time we should have done that. Fortunately, she hadn't hurt anybody. We're moving her at the end of the month from an apartment at a senior apartment complex to a much smaller one at a nice complex that accommodates a transition from independent living to assisted living to memory care. A couple of years ago, I though she could live for another 10 years. Now, I'm not sure if she'll last another 10 months.
Best wishes CWS,as been mentioned perhaps only one person at a time will be aloud to see her.And because of the heinous nature of the illness even if you left her to use the rest room she may be surprised when you get back,Good Luck
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Been praying for you Medina.
My son passed Michigan week 2012. I know in the grand scheme of life Football is pretty insignificant, but during that game it was the first time I smiled. Death is hard, confusing, sad and frustrating all mixed together. Look for those things that can bring you and your family some comfort as you figure out the new normal.
For me it was Buckeye football. If you are up for it, keep giving us updates, and we, these semi-anonymous internet friends, will keep responding. Hope you can take some moments of solace Monday night.
Cheers, and Best Wishes.
Ty
Thank you @TyphonInc (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=8) .
Oh my, losing a child would be even worse. At least with my dad I can take some solace in the 80 years he had and the 45 years I had with him.
You make a great point. I'll try to enjoy the game Monday night if I am even able to watch it. That statement illustrates just how insignificant football is. My team, my alma mater is about to play the biggest game they've played in six years and I don't even know if I'll see it.
I do appreciate the responses from my semi-annonymous internet friends, thank you all.
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Great OP, Medina, and great discussion.
I lost a friend of 16 years last spring. He had very mild Parkinson's when I met him. It got progressively worse, of course, and then came the associated Lewy body dementia. Today, cleaning out my car, I found the receipt for the last time I took Saturday lunch to him in memory care. It was from On the Border Mexican Grill and Cantina. A burrito dinner for me, an enchilada dinner for him. He loved Mexican food, barbecue, pizza, and hamburgers from small, family-owned burger joints. I can't drive anywhere in the Tulsa metro area without passing some little restaurant we hit once, twice, or 50 times.
My mother has been drifting into dementia for over five years and now she's really there and deteriorating rapidly. When we finally took the car keys from her about 3-1/2 years ago, it was past the time we should have done that. Fortunately, she hadn't hurt anybody. We're moving her at the end of the month from an apartment at a senior apartment complex to a much smaller one at a nice complex that accommodates a transition from independent living to assisted living to memory care. A couple of years ago, I though she could live for another 10 years. Now, I'm not sure if she'll last another 10 months.
Good luck @CWSooner (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=1544) .
Much of what you said sounds all too familiar. Your comment about 10 years/10 months hits right home. Prior to his December hospitalization his dementia was slowly deteriorating and his heart issues hadn't caused any problems in years. Now we've moved from that to discussing a DNR as a very real and current issue. Suddenly, 10 months seems very unlikely.
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Now my mother is refusing to move and is saying she will shoot herself if we make her move. It's an empty threat, as she has no firearms, but it shows where her mind is.
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Most folks aren't afraid of death/pain it's loss of agency and self determination
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I’m late to this, but beyond sorry to hear that Medina. As you wrote, life does sometimes have that odd, difficult symmetry and things sometimes seem to pile up all at once.
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It's odd how the mind works. I mentioned upthread that my uncle could still play cards after he got it, and it would bring his personality out again.
Before he had dementia, he would always give my mother a hard time about dealing left handed. I also deal left handed, but he never said anything about it to me because I am left handed.
Once he got really bad, he had no idea who either of us were, let alone what hand we write with, but every time it was my mother's turn to deal he would call her out for dealing left handed like he was just noticing for the first time. But then when it was my turn, he didn't say a word about it. It was like there was just something in his brain that said "I am supposed to be busting this woman's chops about this."
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I was playing golf yesterday and as we were waiting on the 9th tee, we saw that one of the balls from the group behind us had gone up the cart path past the 8th green and come to rest beyond the green. We noticed a guy looking for the ball well short of the green where there's a little creek, and mentioned to one of his foursome that the ball was up where it was... He just responded "yeah, he's senile, he's gonna spend the next 5 minutes looking for it down there anyway..."
Took us a second to realize that he was serious.
It's a weird situation that his mind and body are good enough to play the game, but he's basically gotta have handlers because the rest of the process around it is just completely gone.
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Now my mother is refusing to move and is saying she will shoot herself if we make her move. It's an empty threat, as she has no firearms, but it shows where her mind is.
that's rough
hopefully she will come around
my Dad's mother was one of the sweetest ladies ever, but I saw a side of her I never thought she had when they moved her into the old folk's home.
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I was playing golf yesterday and as we were waiting on the 9th tee, we saw that one of the balls from the group behind us had gone up the cart path past the 8th green and come to rest beyond the green. We noticed a guy looking for the ball well short of the green where there's a little creek, and mentioned to one of his foursome that the ball was up where it was... He just responded "yeah, he's senile, he's gonna spend the next 5 minutes looking for it down there anyway..."
Took us a second to realize that he was serious.
It's a weird situation that his mind and body are good enough to play the game, but he's basically gotta have handlers because the rest of the process around it is just completely gone.
hah, some guys just "know" where their ball is. Just know it's in the creek. I have poor eyesight so I don't argue with them. I'm not often correct. I'll just go find their ball and then let them know. Helps speed up play. And speeding up play is always a good thing with my group.
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Now my mother is refusing to move and is saying she will shoot herself if we make her move. It's an empty threat, as she has no firearms, but it shows where her mind is.
That is rough. Good luck @CWSooner (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=1544) . We dealt with a similar issue when we took dad's driver's license away.
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I don't want to hijack this thread, so if my post fits somewhere else mods please move it.
Ty's family has had a tough week. We got the sweetest little puppy 6 days ago. 48 hours after getting her it became apparent she was really sick. Took her to the vet, and was told she had parvo, and she was put into an isolation unit for 4 days (and cause of covid even we couldn't visit.) Shortly after the Buckeyes got blasted, we received a call that she had passed.
My kids are crushed. I'm pissed, dropped over 2k to buy a puppy and vet care, only to have her for 2 days.
I know a dog is way less significant than a loved relative, but there's a hole aching in my heart right now.
Edit: oh and another sh!ty (pun intended) thing about Parvo, is it's spread though the dogs feces, and is a super hardy bug that can live for up to a year outside in the soil, so the vet highly recommends we don't introduce another dog into our home till next winter.
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I would have a long talk with the Breeder or an Attorney
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I would have a long talk with the Breeder or an Attorney
She was a rescue, that we got from the vet. I've got a lawyer on retainer, and have a call into him.
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I know you mentioned 2k.Obviously this ended bad for the pup and your family.Hopefully their intentions are/were honorable medically.Doesn't seem right you get a bill after all that - good luck
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A good man that I worked with 20+ years ago at my previous employer died of dementia this morning.
Had to be in his upper 80s
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A good man that I worked with 20+ years ago at my previous employer died of dementia this morning.
Had to be in his upper 80s
Condolences. Man Dementia/Alzheimer's is just nasty.
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A good man that I worked with 20+ years ago at my previous employer died of dementia this morning.
Had to be in his upper 80s
Sorry about your friend FF,seems the longer we live it'll be this,covid or cancer.RIP
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A good man that I worked with 20+ years ago at my previous employer died of dementia this morning.
Had to be in his upper 80s
Sorry to hear that, a horrible disease.
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A good man that I worked with 20+ years ago at my previous employer died of dementia this morning.
Had to be in his upper 80s
Sorry to hear this, FF.
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I have been reading everyone's posts and I find myself wishing I had seen some of the advice earlier. My paternal grandmother passed away from Alzheimer's back in the 90's and she had been living in the nursing home for about three years prior. She had shown no signs of the disease up until my dad (who spent 10 years or more driving down from Lincoln to Auburn - 80 miles at least 1-2 times a month after my grandfather passed) felt she was no longer physically capable of taking of herself due to other medical issues. Once she moved, she was ok for a year or so but then Alzheimer's kicked in and the last six months of her life she refused to eat and basically starved herself to death.
After that, my parents wrote detailed living wills outlining what their wishes were which saved much angst amongst us kids. Their funerals were planned, payed for, and in the last couple years before dad passed he had all of us kids come together and choose family heirlooms we particularly wanted. Mom was not in the best of health and my sister who lived with them was (and still is) in a similar boat. The assumption was that she would probably be the first to go. We were so wrong. Dad died in 2011 from acute leukemia (9 months after initial diagnosis), then mom went to assisted living and my sister now lives with me. Mom passed in Feb 2020 from "senile degeneration of the brain" and cerebral vascular disease. She also had the beginnings of Alzheimer's but it was not in the final stages, thank God, so she was still pretty aware, just had short term memory loss - mostly in the evenings.
So, while Dad's loss was fairly quick in comparison, it still offered the family time to come to grips a bit and prepare. My husband absolutely hates to talk about death, etc. but I am of the opinion that doing so offers families a chance to genuinely take the time to grieve after a death and not have to put it aside to make all those decisions at the last minute. By the time we were able to finally have the internment of mom's ashes it was seven months after her death and so the initial grief was not so fresh. Still was hard to attend the internment. My only solace is that she and dad are back together again.
Sorry about the rambling. Just some thoughts that came up after reading the posts above. To all those whose family members are suffering from Alzheimer's my thoughts and prayers are with you. Hang tough.
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Update:
My dad passed away on Saturday, May 15, 2021. That was one day after my birthday. We buried him on Saturday, May 21, 2021. He was 80 years old, having been born on September 5, 1940.
Alzheimer's is a horrible disease. Losing him was horrible but Alzheimer's creates this weird situation in which, in a lot of ways, his passing was a non-event. He will not be there for my 47th birthday next year but, as a practical matter, he wasn't there for my 46th the day before he died. What really changed?
I'm going to do a separate post about enjoying every day because in this post I said that my #1 piece of advice was about driving. That IS important but it isn't important as enjoying what you have every day.