CFB51 College Football Fan Community
The Power Five => Big Ten => Topic started by: 847badgerfan on November 30, 2017, 01:11:47 PM
-
Sounds like they are going to get their ruling tomorrow from the NCAA. On a Friday. On the day the CCG's start and into the weekend.
Something tells me they are going to get off easy, and that the NCAA hopes to slip this in before all the real stories of the weekend unfold.
That's what lots of pro and NCAA schools do. Release news on a Friday so nobody notices. Hmmm...
Any thoughts here?
-
Lol just posted something on this in the M offseason thread.
I tend to think they'll get hit harder than they should. They aren't a money maker for NCAA. They protect the money makers. They show their teeth only when dealing with nobodies.
-
that's good speculation in my opinion. I'll admit I'm very foggy at recalling what actually happened at OleMiss.
Bad news is leaked by every industry on Friday afternoon.
-
After the Miami and UNC rulings, Ole Miss is going to get nothing more than a slap on the wrist.
After PSU 5 years ago, the days of dropping the hammer are long over. Cheat at will.
-
that's good speculation in my opinion. I'll admit I'm very foggy at recalling what actually happened at OleMiss.
Bad news is leaked by every industry on Friday afternoon.
Much of the country would think of any good news for Ole Miss as being bad news. That's why I'm suspicious.
A coach was fired already. Lack of institutional control levied as a charge. 20-25 major violations. And now the ruling is supposedly coming out on a Friday? Before the conference championship weekend?
-
After the Miami and UNC rulings, Ole Miss is going to get nothing more than a slap on the wrist.
After PSU 5 years ago, the days of dropping the hammer are long over. Cheat at will.
Miami football and UNC basketball are kind of a big deal. NCAA weren't going to smash them. Ole Miss football? Ole Miss anything? No one cares.
NCAA over-stepped its bounds with Penn State. Not sure PSU broke any NCAA academic or recruiting or improper benefits laws. But in grand scheme of things PSU got off light. Federal govt should've went in there thrown Paterno in prison and shut that program down for eternity.
-
My GUESS is an added year bowl ban and further scholarship reductions, which in the scheme of things is not really much.
The UNC thing was rather fascinating to me, but obviously somewhat unique in more recent history.
I don't even know how Miami got penalized. Some folks were saying death penalty way back when. Nope.
-
The only sanctions the NCAA has handed down in recent years with any teeth, were then almost immediately done away with based on nothing other than the fear of a lawsuit.
I'll believe any more actual punishments are coming when I see it.
-
Lol just posted something on this in the M offseason thread.
I tend to think they'll get hit harder than they should. They aren't a money maker for NCAA. They protect the money makers. They show their teeth only when dealing with nobodies.
Heh!
There's an old joke that goes something like this:
NCAA OFFICIAL: What? (Helmet School) has been paying its recruits?! Add four more years to UNLV's probation!
-
NCAA over-stepped its bounds with Penn State. Not sure PSU broke any NCAA academic or recruiting or improper benefits laws. But in grand scheme of things PSU got off light. Federal govt should've went in there thrown Paterno in prison and shut that program down for eternity.
Fair enough to say that they should have thrown Paterno and anyone else involved in jail, but they probably couldn't really do anything to shut down the athletic program. You can't throw a football program in jail, only the people who broke laws.
Kinda like what you see with all this basketball stuff. They are investigating shoe companies, coaches, recruits, but the "crime" they are investigating is fraud against the universities, where the universities effectively the wronged party. The crime is fraud and various interstate commerce, money laundering, etc type things. They can't go after the parties for "recruiting violations" just as the NCAA can't throw anyone in jail for criminal activity.
-
Heh!
There's an old joke that goes something like this:
NCAA OFFICIAL: What? (Helmet School) has been paying its recruits?! Add four more years to UNLV's probation!
it's funny, and in this climate maybe accurate.
but old ncaa had no qualms about hitting the big boys. bama, usc, psu and osu can attest to that, and that's just last 15 years.
not saying some or all weren't deserved.
-
Heh!
There's an old joke that goes something like this:
NCAA OFFICIAL: What? (Helmet School) has been paying its recruits?! Add four more years to UNLV's probation!
The NCAA is so mad at Kentucky theyre going to give Cleveland State another year of probation. - Jerry Tarkanian
-
(https://www.cfb51.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fericthomasweber.org%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2015%2F07%2Fackbar-211x300.jpg&hash=1999ba3540fd1bf7ebd73542624bb2b4)
-
The NCAA is so mad at Kentucky theyre going to give Cleveland State another year of probation. - Jerry Tarkanian
That's it!
Thanks for the catch, Mr. Nubbz.
-
For reasons not understood by anyone as far as I can tell, Mississippi's new mascot is the landsharks. There was a good case for Admiral Ackbar, though, when they originally changed themselves to be bears.
-
NCAA over-stepped its bounds with Penn State. Not sure PSU broke any NCAA academic or recruiting or improper benefits laws. But in grand scheme of things PSU got off light. Federal govt should've went in there thrown Paterno in prison and shut that program down for eternity.
This: IMHO with any criminal case, NCAA should request the school to impose immediate self sanctions, and that they will make a ruling on if more are needed when the criminal case is resolved and all the facts can be addressed.
It bugged me to no end that PSU and Paterno were convicted/railroaded w/o due process. But after all we've seen come out I think PSU should have suffered larger penalties. Lots of people comments on how PSU has recovered from the sanctions, but almost no one mentions how the sanctions have been stepped down to almost nonexistence.
-
For reasons not understood by anyone as far as I can tell, Mississippi's new mascot is the landsharks. There was a good case for Admiral Ackbar, though, when they originally changed themselves to be bears.
I think their defense called themselves that the year they were looking for a mascot, so it won
-
For reasons not understood by anyone as far as I can tell, Mississippi's new mascot is the landsharks. There was a good case for Admiral Ackbar, though, when they originally changed themselves to be bears.
(https://www.cfb51.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2F3.bp.blogspot.com%2F_bi50yHPGzys%2FTLuwMEyI7zI%2FAAAAAAAADlM%2FdAjS1nh-xVI%2Fs1600%2F67224_10150291455680587_566675586_15232904_7243211_n.jpg&hash=807fc5204812773f8720f54c7c9bec32)
-
I think their defense called themselves that the year they were looking for a mascot, so it won
this, their d, and now whole team, has adopted it as their own mascot, and so the school has officially now as well.
also, rumors this morning that penalties will be:
1 more year bowl ban (2 counting this year)
13 scholarships
4 years probation
bunch of show cause
the scholarships seem light to me, but rest looks decent.
-
I wasn't even aware they changed it from Colonel Sanders. Seems like a pretty weak PC move to placate people. When you think of Mississippi, you definitely think of Sharks. Joking of course.
-
https://www.si.com/college-football/2017/12/01/ole-miss-ncaa-sanctions-penalties (https://www.si.com/college-football/2017/12/01/ole-miss-ncaa-sanctions-penalties)
two year bowl ban. they already self-imposed one year, so that's 3 years they'll be without a bowl.
four year probation
$179,000 fine
former assistant coach Dave Saunders with an 8-year show cause
13 scholarship reduction
-
I would have doubled the ban, the probation, the fine, and the ships
friggin cheaters caught red handed
-
wow I read that wrong. NCAA just added 1 year to the already self-imposed 1 year ban Ole Miss did for this year.
That means guys like QB Shea Patterson- who is a true sophomore can't transfer without sitting a year. Because the bowl ban is only an additional year- only guys that can transfer without having to sit a year are Jr's and RS Jr's. Everyone else- true frosh, RS frosh, true soph, RS soph....has to sit a year if they intend to transfer.
stupid bowl ban/eligibility rule IMO. If team gets hit by NCAA sanctions and player wasn't involved in putting that team on sanctions- he should be allowed to move without having to sit, no matter his eligibility and the length of a bowl ban.
-
Sounds like they got off kinda light, though the loss of 13 schollies is going to sting.
-
Sounds like they got off kinda light, though the loss of 13 schollies is going to sting.
they did get off pretty light. All they did was show the have-not schools- which Ole Miss is- that go ahead and cheat your way into a little bit of national prominence- then take the slap on the wrist- and rinse and repeat. They'll go right back to this after they get off sanctions.
-
26 schollies would sting a bit more
-
the probation, fine, and show cause mean nothing
adding a zero to the fine wouldn't bother them
-
26 schollies would sting a bit more
this. the rest look ok, but the schollies lost seems way low.
-
It's actually a little bit stricter than I assumed they'd get. I don't think it's that bad overall, considering what the trend had been recently.
-
A bowl ban for a team that ain't gonna make a bowl ain't a bowl ban. It's lipstick on a pig.
No offense to pigs meant.
And what about Hugh Freeze? What is his show-cause? Or did he already get that?
-
Apparently he did not get a show/cause but rather a 1 year suspension from head coaching. So he could be hired as a coordinator.
-
Apparently he did not get a show/cause but rather a 1 year suspension from head coaching. So he could be hired as a coordinator.
Considering the only thing he ever did at Ole Miss was cheat to add 5*s and make them pretty good, but not great, not sure who'd hire him
-
wow I read that wrong. NCAA just added 1 year to the already self-imposed 1 year ban Ole Miss did for this year.
That means guys like QB Shea Patterson- who is a true sophomore can't transfer without sitting a year. Because the bowl ban is only an additional year- only guys that can transfer without having to sit a year are Jr's and RS Jr's. Everyone else- true frosh, RS frosh, true soph, RS soph....has to sit a year if they intend to transfer.
stupid bowl ban/eligibility rule IMO. If team gets hit by NCAA sanctions and player wasn't involved in putting that team on sanctions- he should be allowed to move without having to sit, no matter his eligibility and the length of a bowl ban.
agree with that last part.
-
Considering the only thing he ever did at Ole Miss was cheat to add 5*s and make them pretty good, but not great, not sure who'd hire him
yeah, pretty sure he was a high school coach with no college coaching experience and they hired him solely to be a recruiter. I don't think any other college would want him for his coaching ability. Definitely not going to want him for his recruiting ability- seeing as how he just got Ole Miss on NCAA sanctions precisely because of his recruiting.
-
yup, the bowl ban is meaningless if enough schollies are taken that a bowl is unreachable
which is how it should be
-
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DP-z2qpWAAEiqDQ.jpg)
-
Fair enough to say that they should have thrown Paterno and anyone else involved in jail, but they probably couldn't really do anything to shut down the athletic program. You can't throw a football program in jail, only the people who broke laws.
Kinda like what you see with all this basketball stuff. They are investigating shoe companies, coaches, recruits, but the "crime" they are investigating is fraud against the universities, where the universities effectively the wronged party. The crime is fraud and various interstate commerce, money laundering, etc type things. They can't go after the parties for "recruiting violations" just as the NCAA can't throw anyone in jail for criminal activity.
The thing is, there is no evidence that Paterno broke any laws. He reported what he was told to his superiors. The law has been changed since then, but he did what he was legally bound to do. Yes, he should have done more.
-
The thing is, there is no evidence that Paterno broke any laws. He reported what he was told to his superiors. The law has been changed since then, but he did what he was legally bound to do. Yes, he should have done more.
He also fired the criminal from his staff after the 1999 season, and I always wondered why, until the shit hit the fan.
I still can't believe I broke bread with that guy. I even talked to him about how I always thought he'd be the next coach. Now I know why he shrugged his shoulders.
-
The thing is, there is no evidence that Paterno broke any laws. He reported what he was told to his superiors. The law has been changed since then, but he did what he was legally bound to do. Yes, he should have done more.
understatement of the century?
McQueary: "hey joe, this guy was molesting a child"
JoePa: "Ok, let me go tell my boss about it"
He was the most powerful guy at Penn State back then. He had "bosses" like Harbaugh has a "boss" right now. He should've reported it to the police himself right away, should've tried to find out who the kid was and met him and got the kid help, and he should've banned that sick bastard from ever setting foot on campus.
-
He also fired the criminal from his staff after the 1999 season, and I always wondered why, until the crap hit the fan.
I still can't believe I broke bread with that guy. I even talked to him about how I always thought he'd be the next coach. Now I know why he shrugged his shoulders.
not buying that he was even fired. Because if that was the case, then why'd he give him that cushy retirement package, almost $200,000 extra they didn't have to give him, and give him emeritus status and access to the use all the facilities and come and go if he pleases if he was fired for that?
-
Ole Miss chancellor holds a press conference. Says the NCAA bowl ban is unacceptable. Jesus. The balls on these people.
-
not buying that he was even fired. Because if that was the case, then why'd he give him that cushy retirement package, almost $200,000 extra they didn't have to give him, and give him emeritus status and access to the use all the facilities and come and go if he pleases if he was fired for that?
Probably the wrong word for this one. "Removed" would have been better. Fired is what should have happened.
-
Considering the only thing he ever did at Ole Miss was cheat to add 5*s and make them pretty good, but not great, not sure who'd hire him
I don't know if other sports do this as well, or if its just college football. But man is college football good at reducing things that aren't easy down to nothing and then asking, so what have you really done?
(Lord, I'm making a half-hearted defense of Hugh Freeze. The guy can probably coach a lick. Just adding four 5-stars don't beat bama a couple times. Not sure how many first-year five-stars got his lone Ark State team to 10-2 from 4-8. Dude was a pretty good offensive coach. I'm sure his skills working with some position could, in theory, be an asset to some program.
That being said, he shouldn't get another job. He's a flagrant cheater and he's a majestic self-righteous A-hole, outpacing a lot of colleagues in a profession where that's almost the norm. But it ain't the ONLY thing he did)
-
I don't know if other sports do this as well, or if its just college football. But man is college football good at reducing things that aren't easy down to nothing and then asking, so what have you really done?
(Lord, I'm making a half-hearted defense of Hugh Freeze. The guy can probably coach a lick. Just adding four 5-stars don't beat bama a couple times. Not sure how many first-year five-stars got his lone Ark State team to 10-2 from 4-8. Dude was a pretty good offensive coach. I'm sure his skills working with some position could, in theory, be an asset to some program.
That being said, he shouldn't get another job. He's a flagrant cheater and he's a majestic self-righteous A-hole, outpacing a lot of colleagues in a profession where that's almost the norm. But it ain't the ONLY thing he did)
yeah, he was also calling hookers on his company phone. Like really, how dumb can you be?
Not judging him for that at all. I could frankly care less if that's how he gets his rocks off. What I will judge him for is his absolute hypocrisy- he was always jesus this jesus that I'm such a good family man- I love my wife- I love jesus- I can't coach these extra hours I need time for my hooke...I mean children- awe shucks isn't jesus great! It's always the self-righteous preachy smug a-holes that you have to watch out for.
-
(https://www.cfb51.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2F4.bp.blogspot.com%2F-R0s6BJ7BwEE%2FUX4oARf1lMI%2FAAAAAAAAAH0%2FQeUUD9n6OZA%2Fs1600%2FHugh%2BFreeze%2BTweet.jpg&hash=275174eb4d35185fd7066ecce2654bce)
-
Sounds like they got off kinda light, though the loss of 13 schollies is going to sting.
i've seen conflicting reports that say the 13 scholarships include the 11 originally self imposed, and another report that says in addition to the 11 self imposed.
include: https://247sports.com/Article/NCAA-Releases-Penalties-On-Ole-Miss-Football-Program-111490207 (https://247sports.com/Article/NCAA-Releases-Penalties-On-Ole-Miss-Football-Program-111490207)
"Additional scholarship cuts bring the total to 13, which includes 11 already self-imposed by the program, according to sources."
in addition to: https://www.sbnation.com/college-football/2017/12/1/16512428/ole-miss-ncaa-sanctions-penalties-investigation (https://www.sbnation.com/college-football/2017/12/1/16512428/ole-miss-ncaa-sanctions-penalties-investigation)
"A total scholarship reduction of 13 over a period of years. That’s in addition to the 11 over four years that Ole Miss self-imposed, which already meant three or four fewer scholarship players per year"
-
"In addition to" is huge. Don't agree with the guys saying it's a slap on the wrist, if so. They'd be down a quarter of their team in schollys. G'luck with that, Ole Miss.
The NCAA is mind-numbingly insane on it's show-cause for coaches and assistants. Some of these assistants are getting 5-8 yrs of that, and Freeze only 1? And some here saying he doesn't even have a real show-cause for next year? Ridiculous.
-
ncaa release: https://www.ncaa.org/about/resources/media-center/news/ole-miss-lacked-institutional-control-football-program (https://www.ncaa.org/about/resources/media-center/news/ole-miss-lacked-institutional-control-football-program)
"Scholarship reductions through 2018-19, as detailed in the public report (self-imposed by the university)."
so it's not even 13, but only the original 11 apparently.and over 4 years, so 3 per year. not much of a penalty.
-
That is a joke.
-
yeah, he was also calling hookers on his company phone. Like really, how dumb can you be?
Not judging him for that at all. I could frankly care less if that's how he gets his rocks off. What I will judge him for is his absolute hypocrisy- he was always jesus this jesus that I'm such a good family man- I love my wife- I love jesus- I can't coach these extra hours I need time for my hooke...I mean children- awe shucks isn't jesus great! It's always the self-righteous preachy smug a-holes that you have to watch out for.
Hey Jesus hung out with hookers
-
**MrNubbz gets struck by lightning**
-
LMAO
-
Can't help it if you back sliders haven't read your Bible
-
and us back sliders can't help it if you get struck down by lightning
-
I'm sure Jesus is a Skers fan being an advocate of the downtrodden and all
-
Hey Jesus hung out with hookers
LMAO
-
**MrNubbz gets struck by lightning**
statistically speaking, Nubbz has a better chance winning the power ball. By the way Nubbz if you win it's $177,000,000. I want a cut. Please.
-
I'm buying a ticket in the morning
can't lose if ya don't play
-
statistically speaking, Nubbz has a better chance winning the power ball. By the way Nubbz if you win it's $177,000,000. I want a cut. Please.
What % of the lighting bolt do you want?
-
What sort of penalties do folks here think would have been proper?
I agree that a bowl ban for a bad team is a nothing. I don't know why Ole Miss bothers fighting that. I suppose players may leave.
Can players leave without sitting out a year? That would be a hit.
The thing about an Ole Miss is that not much really impacts them at this point. They could walk off scott free and still be a bad team unable to recruit very well.
-
What sort of penalties do folks here think would have been proper?
I agree that a bowl ban for a bad team is a nothing. I don't know why Ole Miss bothers fighting that. I suppose players may leave.
Can players leave without sitting out a year? That would be a hit.
The thing about an Ole Miss is that not much really impacts them at this point. They could walk off scott free and still be a bad team unable to recruit very well.
Burn down the stadium. Maybe close the school.
-
Sounds like they got off kinda light, though the loss of 13 schollies is going to sting.
Yeah, they'll go from the worst team in the SEC West to the .....worst team in the SEC West.
-
I had a great time with Ole Miss fans, so I want their team to remain extant.
-
Yeah, they'll go from the worst team in the SEC West to the .....worst team in the SEC West.
But not yet the worst team in the SEC.
-
I would have doubled the ban, the probation, the fine, and the ships
friggin cheaters caught red handed
Not only caught red-handed, but EVERYONE with half a brain knew IMMEDIATELY that they were cheating on that signing day. Programs like Ole Miss do get the occasional 5* kid - a rogue wave if you will. Mizzou got that WR who fizzled out. Houston has that DT, etc.
But for Ole Miss to get the #1 OT, #1 WR, and the #1 DT all in the same class was clearly unnatural. And the whole time, they denied, denied, denied. Ugh.
-
But not yet the worst team in the SEC.
Why do you think Ole Miss' cross-division "rival" is Vandy? So an intrigued nation can find out the worst team in the SEC is each year.
*in 2017, it's Tennessee, lol
-
I didn't follow every detail of the sordiness, but I could see easily a three year bowl ban, not that it would matter really coupled with allowing juniors and seniors to leave and cutting scholarships to some number, say 20 a year instead of whatever, for four years. I'd also take away every championship they won by cheating. Oops.
The penalty is not about Ole Miss, it's about how others perceive the downside of nefariousness.
That message is not being sent other than to say you can cheat and expect to skate even if caught for the most part.
-
the message sent is: it's probably worth it to cheat
-
Yup, and be more clever about it. I think the top level programs don't need to cheat (much) and the risk is too great.
I think clever dodges like having several starters not on scholarship is a better approach.
-
I think it's easier for the top programs to cheat. More money to pay better middle men for the misdeeds and no one bats an eye if a 5* kid signs with you, it's expected, by some measure.
What Ole Miss did was like making a million bucks on a scam and then showing up for work in a Ferrari the next day. Too obvious.
-
I think it's easier for the top programs to cheat. More money to pay better middle men for the misdeeds and no one bats an eye if a 5* kid signs with you, it's expected, by some measure.
What Ole Miss did was like making a million bucks on a scam and then showing up for work in a Ferrari the next day. Too obvious.
Yeah kinda agree lol.
They signed a 5* WR from Chicago in LaQuon Treadwell that was all but committed to Michigan.
Alabama doing that, Florida doing that. No one bats an eye. Ole Miss? People go...hmmmmmm.
-
**MrNubbz gets struck by lightning**
This was good.
-
Ah....here we go.
Hammering Ole Miss with sanctions. This is something I can really get behind.