CFB51 College Football Fan Community
The Power Five => SEC => Topic started by: OrangeAfroMan on July 04, 2020, 06:11:32 AM
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Since 1992:
Alabama over Tennessee (.649), 17-10-1
Arkansas over Carolina (.528), 13-10
Georgia over Auburn (.670), 17-11-1
Florida over LSU (.700), 16-12
Miss State over Kentucky (.429), 18-10
Ole Miss over Vanderbilt (.348), 18-10
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Since 2014:
*Missouri over Arkansas (.400), 5-1
*A&M over Carolina (.474), 6-0
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What's the point of this thread? Just showing how crappy it's been for 2 teams arbitrarily thrown together.
The matchups in bold are the 2 games holding the rest of the conference hostage. And good on them, those are the 2nd and 3rd-toughest cross-division opponents since division play began.
But Florida was randomly tasked with playing a school 3 states over, who's been the toughest opponent, when looking at it from those teams with the advantage thus far. Yeah, that stinks.
But let's look at it from the angle of those behind at the moment:
Alabama (.718) over Tennessee, 17-10-1
Arkansas (.515) over Carolina, 13-10
Georgia (.719) over Auburn, 17-11-1
Florida (.737) over LSU, 16-12
Miss State (.509) over Kentucky, 18-10
Ole Miss (.522) over Vanderbilt, 18-10
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Well damn, we see again - the precious matchups have the 2nd and 3rd-toughest programs to overcome. And LSU, minding its business, get saddled with playing the top program since '92. Because...why?
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Florida over LSU (.700), 16-12
I think that percentage is more like 57%, if it matters. Maybe the .700 pertains to something else?
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I think some of these obviously have historical meaning, and the rest just fell out however it happened.
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I wonder who would be more tenable opponents for Florida and LSU? Geographically the two nearest opponents for Florida would be Auburn and Alabama. If you are looking for a softer opponent I don't think that would solve be it. The only reasonably close opponent for LSU would be Vandy and I don't think LSU wants to play Vandy every year.
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Maybe his proposed solution is to do away with all pairings, or all but two pairings, don't know.
The six teams paired are the six teams usually winning the SEC, so there is that. Has any team outside those 6 won the CG since it started?
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Tennessee won it on 1997, I think.
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https://www.vegasinsider.com/college-football/history/championship/sec/ (https://www.vegasinsider.com/college-football/history/championship/sec/)
The vols won it twice. Only these six teams have ever won the CFB SEC CG.
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Prior to 1992 the schools, of course, made out their own schedules. With no guns to their head the ADs at LSU and UF scheduled each other, with the exception of 1968, 1969, and 1970, EVERY year from 1953 to 1991. So with them playing 36 of the previous 39 years and UF holding a slight 17-16-3 edge, whatever in Hell made the SEC think that was a rivalry?
http://football.stassen.com/cgi-bin/records/opp-opp.pl?start=1953&end=1991&team1=Florida&team2=LouisianaState (http://football.stassen.com/cgi-bin/records/opp-opp.pl?start=1953&end=1991&team1=Florida&team2=LouisianaState)
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Seems like a reasonable crossover to me, if we have them at all.
Tennessee gets the real shaft in this thing.
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Seems like a reasonable crossover to me, if we have them at all.
Tennessee gets the real shaft in this thing.
From 1992-2006, Tennessee was 10-4-1. Rest assured nobody was saying then that Bama was getting the shaft.
http://football.stassen.com/cgi-bin/records/opp-opp.pl?start=1992&end=2006&team1=Tennessee&team2=Alabama (http://football.stassen.com/cgi-bin/records/opp-opp.pl?start=1992&end=2006&team1=Tennessee&team2=Alabama)
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TSIO is 17-10-1 and DSOR is 16-11-1 in regular season games. Which is what the discussion is about. Is Auburn also getting the shaft?
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I think that percentage is more like 57%, if it matters. Maybe the .700 pertains to something else?
No, they have to play a .700 level team. The win% in the parenthesis are from their overall record from 1992-2019.
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TSIO is 17-10-1 and DSOR is 16-11-1 in regular season games. Which is what the discussion is about. Is Auburn also getting the shaft?
Auburn is not getting the shaft, as they're one of the culprits.
ALA, UGA, AUB, UTK hold the rest of the conference hostage.
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The point is that 4 teams held the other 8 hostage, and so Florida and LSU get thrown together, as the 4 I listed above weren't even options. Florida vs Auburn was a rivalry. Florida vs LSU was played often, but was nothing.
Florida played MSU more often than LSU. And the reason UF and MSU weren't a cross-division rivals are "just because." And it's turned out (so far) that they've both had to play the toughest opponent over these 28 years (in terms of advantage/disadvantage).
If those 4 wanted to play each other, they should've been placed in the same division.
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It could have been any number of combinations.
Alabama vs Georgia (bordering states, both big-boy programs)
Auburn vs Florida
LSU vs Tennessee
There's nothing wrong with these.
Here's SEC records from 1970-1991:
.798 Alabama
.688 Georgia
.607 Auburn
.581 Tennessee
.568 Florida
.559 LSU
.402 Ole Miss
.309 Miss State
.307 Kentucky
.169 Vandy
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So 1 just has to play 4, and 2 must play 3, or else they'll pitch a fit. The other matchups?
5 vs 6, 7 vs 10, 8 vs 9. Basically random.
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Auburn-UGA has more history than any other SEC matchup, so if there are to be pairs, that would be one. Alabama-Tenn has some history, you could do Bama-Florida, but that doesn't help Florida at all. And UF-LSU has some history as noted. There are the Big Boy teams in the SEC.
I wish "we" had stayed at 12, made more sense to me. You could have had some teams paired and the rest not.
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I don't think won-loss records had anything at all to do with this scheduling. It was based on history and geography. Florida does have a gripe in that they don't get to play Auburn which is geographically closest to them but the Georgia-Auburn history situation prevailed. I think the decision was made because Florida had played LSU for 22 consecutive years which was pointed out above.
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The W-L records might have been a non-factor, but it is interesting how the three pairings are THE powers in the SEC.
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The fact the four mentioned are the most successful has a great deal to do with establishing rivalries. If one team dominates you can't really have a rivalry.
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Do away with pairings all together?
Would anyone miss that?
I don't like playing only one other West team each year.
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I personally would be OK with leaving this to posterity. Play two cross division teams at random each year, or in a pattern. Fine with me.
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Heck, I would be fine with kicking out Mizzou and A&M. I realize that won't happen of course, so I don't pine for it.
That conference expansion panic didn't do many much good I think.
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I think A&M added value to the conference. I know they haven't won anything yet but they will. There is too much money and talent in Texas. We needed Arkansas to make it an even number. We probably should have taken Clemson and FSU instead of USC and Missouri. I like the bigger league.
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I think Arky and USCe were added at the same time, and then much later Mizzou and A&M came in as a pair.
But I could be wrong.
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I don't think won-loss records had anything at all to do with this scheduling. It was based on history and geography. Florida does have a gripe in that they don't get to play Auburn which is geographically closest to them but the Georgia-Auburn history situation prevailed. I think the decision was made because Florida had played LSU for 22 consecutive years which was pointed out above.
a - why did 12 teams need cross-division "rivals" when only 4 actually had them?
b - Florida had played Missisisppi State for more consecutive years than it had played LSU, and Starkville is closer to Gainesville.
And from LSU's point of view, LSU had played Kentucky more often the previous 30 years than it had Florida. This was a mish-mash, random pairing because of the selfishness of 4 teams.
The "other" 8 SEC schools were treated as puzzle pieces made to fit, and it was wrong.
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Four teams were selfish? Huh.
Maybe they were influential. Maybe the Florida AD was ineffectual. Maybe they drew lots. Maybe four teams were selfish.
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The unimpressive part of SEC scheduling is that you could create a setup with 16 teams who play each other far more often than the SEC's schedule with only 12 teams.
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If I understand the Gator Guy correctly, he is proposing doing away with the cross over games and adopting a system whereby everybody gets to play each other the same number of times. I think before doing this one needs to understand why we have cross over games to start with and also in state rivalries which would be affected by such a new arrangement. The reason we have the cross over games is because some of them are extremely popular among fans and the public and are very lucrative. You would have years when Bama would play Kentucky but not Tennessee and Georgia might play Arkansas but not Auburn. An executive would have to be crazy to make such a change.
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If I understand the Gator Guy correctly, he is proposing doing away with the cross over games and adopting a system whereby everybody gets to play each other the same number of times. I think before doing this one needs to understand why we have cross over games to start with and also in state rivalries which would be affected by such a new arrangement. The reason we have the cross over games is because some of them are extremely popular among fans and the public and are very lucrative.
2 of these games were popular, 2 out of 6. The few dictating things over the many.
Georgia-Auburn every year means other teams' opportunities to face those teams are lessened. Doesn't Florida want to play Auburn more than twice every decade plus? Yes. Doesn't LSU want to see UGA? Of course.
I'm not sure seeing Alabama curb stomp Tennessee yet again is exactly must-see.
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2 of these games were popular, 2 out of 6. The few dictating things over the many.
Georgia-Auburn every year means other teams' opportunities to face those teams are lessened. Doesn't Florida want to play Auburn more than twice every decade plus? Yes. Doesn't LSU want to see UGA? Of course.
I'm not sure seeing Alabama curb stomp Tennessee yet again is exactly must-see.
Things are cyclical.
And Bama would be curb stomping whichever team from the East they were paired with, so does it really matter?