CFB51 College Football Fan Community
The Power Five => Big Ten => Topic started by: CWSooner on June 24, 2020, 06:17:41 PM
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https://247sports.com/college/ohio-state/Article/Colin-Cowherd-Ohio-State-Buckeyes-one-of-college-footballs-four-big-dogs-148471521/ (https://247sports.com/college/ohio-state/Article/Colin-Cowherd-Ohio-State-Buckeyes-one-of-college-footballs-four-big-dogs-148471521/)
A graphic from the OU equivalent of Bucknuts.
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EbN4irdWkAQPGo3?format=jpg&name=small)
There are arguments to be made against some of Cowherd's points. In the OU-Texas comparison, Texas' Darrell Royal was something like 5-1 against OU's Bud Wilkinson. USC has had some long stretches of mediocrity. Bo Schembechler went 5-4-1 against Woody Hayes. I'm sure there are others.
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USC? Lmfao. Cowherd is a turd. I don’t know how he’s still on air. And he’s also a ridiculously over the top USC fanboy.
Clemson, Ohio State, Alabama are the clear top dawgs and by a nice margin. UGA and OU or right on their heels.
USC isn’t even in the discussion.
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Just curious--did you read the article?
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Just curious--did you read the article?
I did, and it's Broward County, not Brower. :96:
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I kind of like Cowherd, except that he does what Jim Rome did - he restates the same point over and over until he words it well and seems pleased with himself.
On a similar note, I was listening to some sports talk on AM radio when I happened to not have my phone with me in the car and DEAR GOD......it's unconscionable. You're already bombarded with ads and commercials about 60% of the time, but guuuhhhhh, the talking head is just filling time by talking circles around himself on the same point.
It's the worst.
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Just curious--did you read the article?
Yes, I read it. And it’s as stupid and poorly thought out as I thought it would be.
A great coach makes the program. If Saban had stayed at LSU and never left they would’ve been the powerhouse and Bama would probably still be hiring and firing coaches every other year.
If Urban Meyer went to Michigan or Penn State he’d have built them into the power of the B1G, not OSU.
He’s making dumb points. USC has been dogshit ever since it lost arguably its greatest coach in its history.
Urban would’ve built a dynasty like Saban at Florida had he recruited some more high character guys. Half his team were illiterate criminals and he got burnt out. He learned his lesson fast though and started recruiting more high character super talented guys at OSU. And he gave the bad apples way less leash. He was a lot quicker to kick guys out of the program than he ever was at UF.
Urban landed 5* STARZ from everywhere in the country at OSU. He’d have done the same thing at Michigan or Penn State if he was the coach. He’s arguably the best recruiter ever.
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He’s making dumb points. USC has been dogshit ever since it lost arguably its greatest coach in its history.
I find this kind of outlook amusing because it sort of reduces everything that's not right at the top to "dogshit." Like everything is either creme de la creme or trash.
USC is three years removed from an 11-win season. It's four years removed from a No. 3 finish. A replacement level coach can do that at USC, which might actually make a compelling case for the point.
But anyway. Once someone complies a list that ranks teams, it just leads to talking crap. It's something we can't seem to help ourselves about.
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I find this kind of outlook amusing because it sort of reduces everything that's not right at the top to "dogshit." Like everything is either creme de la creme or trash.
USC is three years removed from an 11-win season. It's four years removed from a No. 3 finish. A replacement level coach can do that at USC, which might actually make a compelling case for the point.
But anyway. Once someone complies a list that ranks teams, it just leads to talking crap. It's something we can't seem to help ourselves about.
Yeah and Brady Hoke had an 11 win season, top 10 finish and won a BCS Bowl. Even a blind squirrel finds a nut every once in awhile.
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Poor Tennessee and Nebraska.
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Poor Tennessee and Nebraska.
Do you think they’ll ever be able to get back to their former glory?
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Do you think they’ll ever be able to get back to their former glory?
No for Nebraska. I'd say probably not for UT, though they generate enough good recruiting every few years, maybe they could. Granted, their former glory was probably not that sustained. They had a very good 13-year or so run, and then kinda some OK stuff at the end.
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Yeah and Brady Hoke had an 11 win season, top 10 finish and won a BCS Bowl. Even a blind squirrel finds a nut every once in awhile.
Does that mean Michigan has also been dogshit int that timeframe? Interesting.
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Do you think they’ll ever be able to get back to their former glory?
Well "ever" is a pretty long time, so I wouldn't completely rule it out.
It's certainly not as far fetched as Army, Fordham or the Ivies, etc.
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Tennessee will be very cyclical going forward. Historically, they are a definitive #2 behind Alabama in the SEC. And while they've been down for awhile now, the right HC will get them back up - they can recruit regionally and get the talent necessary. But once that HC is gone, they'll fall back down to earth - and I say this because I'm not sure it's a destination job anymore.
I don't really see any reason for Nebraska to cycle back up. I can't help but blame their move to the B10. They went from being a big fish in a small pond to becoming a medium fish in an ocean, and there are a couple of sharks in there now. When I'm toiling around with football stuff and thinking of the B10, Nebraska is an, "oh yeah, and Nebraska" position now. A lot of that is a hesitation in remembering that they moved and a lot is their recent results. I just don't see any inherent reasons it's LIKELY that UNL climbs back up the ladder.
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Being in the West division, there is no reason to believe that they could not once again become a big fish in a small pond. All they really have to do is figure out a way to out-Wisconsin Wisconsin, and that would put them in the Big Ten CCG just about every year.
If they begin to play in the Big Ten CCG on a regular basis, then it stands to reason that they are going to win it periodically, even if they have to do it via upset more often than not.
Their path to the top of the conference has a lot less resistance than Michigan's, in my opinion. The Wolverines would have to be better than OSU and PSU, instead of Wisconsin and Iowa.
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So, some Talking Head organized programs according to his opinion to gin up discussion and threw in USC to do just that.
Got it.
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I am not a Clemson fan but the idea they are not in the top 4 as a program is puzzling. They have been in the playoffs five straight years with two NCs and there is no end in site. They are recruiting at a high level and there is nobody in their conference that is not a two touchdown underdog to them. Cowherd thinks FSU and Miami are the reasons Clemson doesn't deserve top 4 status. FSU will probably some day match Clemson but I don't see it in the near future. Miami, a small private college, will never again attain it's former heights as it can't even sign the guys from Miami anymore. And didn't Clemson blow out Oklahoma in 2014 and 2015.
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Neutral field, who would be favored? Among the top three the spread would be 3-4-5 points I expect. Bama/Clemson/Ohio State.
You probably then have UGA 5-6-7 point dog to each of them, and then OU, etc.
Doesn't really matter of course.
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why is Miami in the group?
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Cowherd is a moron. In that same blowhard show he said Dylan McCaffrey is the next Andrew Luck. He literally said that. I’m not even sure McCaffrey will start over Joe Milton. It’s very likely, but it’s not 100%.
Would the next Andrew Luck have sat on the bench behind Shea Patterson or have to battle a younger QB for a starting job? I tend to think not.
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why is Miami in the group?
Putting Miami in that group is yet another reason why he’s showing how stupid he is.
Miami is a small private school with not very many students and a small alumni base, hardly any of the people in South Florida are even fans of Miami, and it’s not even in the city of Miami, it’s in Coral Gables 10 miles away, and they play in an NFL stadium 25 miles away from its campus, and half the games are always empty.
And to top it off most of the top kids in SoFL are going everywhere but Miami. They are going to Clemson, Bama, LSU, Florida, FSU, Georgia, Ohio State, Michigan, Oklahoma, etc., etc..
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He got us talking about him didn't he?
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He got us talking about him didn't he?
Yup. Pays well to go on tv and say dumb or crazy shit and get people riled up.
Unfortunately news organizations and journalists figured this out.
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Being in the West division, there is no reason to believe that they could not once again become a big fish in a small pond. All they really have to do is figure out a way to out-Wisconsin Wisconsin, and that would put them in the Big Ten CCG just about every year.
If they begin to play in the Big Ten CCG on a regular basis, then it stands to reason that they are going to win it periodically, even if they have to do it via upset more often than not.
Their path to the top of the conference has a lot less resistance than Michigan's, in my opinion. The Wolverines would have to be better than OSU and PSU, instead of Wisconsin and Iowa.
and in my opinion if a few years the hurdles Nebraska will have will add in a Minnesota team that is actually at least 2 years a head of Nebraska on a rebuild to national attention
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There are two differences between Cowhurd and ELA:
1. ELA's name is not widely known, and
2. ELA doesn't publish obvious tripe to get people incensed and upset so they know his name.
Not many Talking Heads who write this sort of stuff are really very rational about it, but they are good at eliciting a reaction.
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So, some Talking Head organized programs according to his opinion to gin up discussion and threw in USC to do just that.
Got it.
Shrug. People want to get mad at things for no reason. He provided a thing one might get mad at if they felt over the top about something. People made the choice to get into it.
The argument isn't particularly unreasonable in a historical context given the sort of broad requirements. And at worst, it probably should be a moment of "ehh, a person I don't care for said a thing, and that is what it is."
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and in my opinion if a few years the hurdles Nebraska will have will add in a Minnesota team that is actually at least 2 years a head of Nebraska on a rebuild to national attention
That is certainly within the realm of possibility, but which team is more likely to retain their coach?
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Why is everyone wigging out about this? They're obviously historical peak rankings. If they were released 10 years ago, Clemson wouldn't even be on it.
The only way you can be outraged is if you don't understand that.
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I am truly outraged.
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Mdot has been outraged a lot lately. I hope everything is okay at home.
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I had a nice run (jog) (OK, slow jog) today. I took a couple days off after the Shingrix laid me out. I milked that one a bit.
I am pretty sure it's tough to be a CFB writer in June, especially this year.
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Why is everyone wigging out about this? They're obviously historical peak rankings. If they were released 10 years ago, Clemson wouldn't even be on it.
The only way you can be outraged is if you don't understand that.
This is AMERICA. How DARE you tell people what they can be outraged for! :96:
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That is certainly within the realm of possibility, but which team is more likely to retain their coach?
this is the key
if PJ rows the boat too fast, folks with much bigger boats will be calling
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this is the key
if PJ rows the boat too fast, folks with much bigger boats will be calling
Their only hope is that he realizes that Minnesota is the biggest program out there that will still allow him to put an oar on their helmet. Imagine if he tried to do that with the Wolverines?
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Their only hope is that he realizes that Minnesota is the biggest program out there that will still allow him to put an oar on their helmet. Imagine if he tried to do that with the Wolverines?
Ehhh, some program just might. Shoot, Washington and Tennessee could work in boats.
Michigan getting PJ would be like getting another Harbs in a lot of ways.
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I kind of like Cowherd, except that he does what Jim Rome did - he restates the same point over and over until he words it well and seems pleased with himself.
On a similar note, I was listening to some sports talk on AM radio when I happened to not have my phone with me in the car and DEAR GOD......it's unconscionable. You're already bombarded with ads and commercials about 60% of the time, but guuuhhhhh, the talking head is just filling time by talking circles around himself on the same point.
It's the worst.
I kinda like Cowherd too, but I think a lot of it has to do with just how much better he handles himself in a 'talk' industry that has become rigidly repetitive and topically un-diverse over the last 10 & 20 years. My big criticism of Cowherd as of late is spending his 3 hour show on only a few topics - NFL, Lebron/NBA, College football, ripping on Aaron Rodgers, and that's about it. However, within those constraints Cowherd is able to come across a lot more creative and fresh than his peers who are also stuck within those topical restrictions.
Sports talk radio didn't used to be so corporate. They would talk way more baseball, covered a lot more topics, hosted weekly gags, and were more so call-in shows.
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Why is everyone wigging out about this?
You appear to be the only one in here that is "wigging out" about this.
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Ehhh, some program just might. Shoot, Washington and Tennessee could work in boats.
Michigan getting PJ would be like getting another Harbs in a lot of ways.
I can't see Rocky Top being that desperate.
Imagine an oar across the Checkered End Zone?
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If a program throws Harbaugh type money at PJ, he will not require an oar on anything.
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Cowherd is a moron. In that same blowhard show he said Dylan McCaffrey is the next Andrew Luck.
Perhaps but he has a job doing what do here and gets paid a King's ransome to do it.Not bad work if you can get it
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There are two differences between Cowhurd and ELA:
1. ELA's name is not widely known, and
2. ELA doesn't publish obvious tripe to get people incensed and upset so they know his name.
Not many Talking Heads who write this sort of stuff are really very rational about it, but they are good at eliciting a reaction.
ela did have bama outside his top 10 this year. that's probably a bigger snub than leaving clemson out of top 4. just sayin... :)
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If a program throws Harbaugh type money at PJ, he will not require an oar on anything.
Well I didn't say that it was a lock. Just that it is their best hope.
Obviously they can keep him if they don't get over the hump, but under the scenario that we are discussing where he has Minnesota as the team to beat in the B1G West, he gone.
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There are two differences between Cowhurd and ELA:
Nice try but ELA isn't putting the Dawgs any higher on his countdown list
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Nice try but ELA isn't putting the Dawgs any higher on his countdown list
Heh. I think he has had them pretty high before, and then the season happens.
There are always surprises, if there is a season at all.
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Ehhh, some program just might. Shoot, Washington and Tennessee could work in boats.
Michigan getting PJ would be like getting another Harbs in a lot of ways.
Vol Navy awaits.
And U-Dub has Puget Sound for rowing practice.
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IMO CFB is going down that river w/o a paddle
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Vanderbilt could fit into the oar/paddle thing. They are after all the Commodores.
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Vanderbilt could fit into the oar/paddle thing. They are after all the Commodores.
Anchor Down and Row the Boat are in direct conflict
LIU merged its two campuses for athletics (I believe only LIU Brooklyn, formerly just Long Island, was D1), and re-branded as the Sharks. So they could change row the boat to You're Gonna Need a Bigger Boat
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Vanderbilt could fit into the oar/paddle thing. They are after all the Commodores.
Dood Lionel Ritchie is past his prime
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PJ might go to the Commodores if the Gophers fire him
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No, PJ's career will just go down the commode.
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I'm still incensed, outraged, livid, and ready to excoriate someone somehow.
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I'm still incensed, outraged, livid, and ready to excoriate someone somehow.
(https://i.imgur.com/mSqHD1M.png)
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Did he say that only those four teams could win the title?
I must have misunderstood.
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Did he say that only those four teams could win the title?
I must have misunderstood.
I was just teeing it up for you, dude... You sounded like you needed to rant.
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Cowherd went on to say that there are 12 other programs that, if they have the right head coach and quarterback, can win a national title. Those programs, according to Cowherd, are Clemson, Florida State, Miami, Auburn, Florida, Georgia, LSU, Michigan, Penn State, Texas, Notre Dame and Oregon. But if Cowherd's big four of Ohio State, Alabama, Oklahoma or USC have their top coach ever, he doesn't believe these 12 teams can win a title.
This is a circular argument. If any of the 12 win the NC, their coach automatically becomes one of their top coaches ever. Duh. The exceptions could be Michigan, Texas, ND, OU, and Penn State of course
If UGA wins an NC, one could argue Smart is their top coach ever, but not for those others mostly.
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He's just talking about each program at it's peak, it's not complicated. If you have every program chugging along, with its best HC, bringing in the best talent, those 4 historically great programs peak the highest.
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Cowherd went on to say that there are 12 other programs that, if they have the right head coach and quarterback, can win a national title. Those programs, according to Cowherd, are Clemson, Florida State, Miami, Auburn, Florida, Georgia, LSU, Michigan, Penn State, Texas, Notre Dame and Oregon. But if Cowherd's big four of Ohio State, Alabama, Oklahoma or USC have their top coach ever, he doesn't believe these 12 teams can win a title.
This is a circular argument. If any of the 12 win the NC, their coach automatically becomes one of their top coaches ever. Duh. The exceptions could be Michigan, Texas, ND, OU, and Penn State of course
If UGA wins an NC, one could argue Smart is their top coach ever, but not for those others mostly.
But he already screwed himself.
You can make an argument that both Saban and Meyer are their teams' best coaches ever or close enough, and Clemson beat OSU under Meyer and Alabama under Saban in consecutive games for its first title in the CFP era, and then beat Alabama again in the title game for its second.
Cowherd says that when those 4 programs have their best coaches, that none of the 12 can beat them--even if one of those 12 has the right HC and QB, as obviously Clemson had in both years.
Yet in two recent years Clemson has done it.
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I don't think he's referring to a literal 1-game shot. If so, he's an idiot.
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PJ might go to the Commodores if the Gophers fire him
As of now I am not sure PJ will get fired they may put a statue up of him if he continues to do what he did last year
its a small sample but he is got people fired up about the gophers even through COVID
I know Wisconsin fans like to talk trash about him because hey he has proven he can beat them in Madison. We will not be like the Brewster Gophers and that is why they talk crap
it should be a fun game each year going forward
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Minnesota beats the worst Wisconsin team in the past decade and it's cause for celebration, even 18 months later. Heh.
Just look at last season. The beatings will continue.
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I AM VERY ANGRY!!!
:)
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love the Big RED font!
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The Power Five college sports conferences had more than $2.9 billion in combined revenue for their 2019 fiscal years, the conferences’ new federal tax records show.
The Big Ten reported more than $780 million in revenue, the most of any conference, and its return credits recently retired commissioner Jim Delany with nearly $10.3 million in total compensation for the 2018 calendar year.
https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/college/2020/07/10/power-five-conference-revenue-fiscal-year-2019/5414405002/ (https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/college/2020/07/10/power-five-conference-revenue-fiscal-year-2019/5414405002/)
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It's a business obviously, based around football for revenue. I guess men's bball generates revenue also, but little else.
The Europeans may have rowing teams in college, but that's about it. Apparently their soccer players go directly from high school to some minor league.
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Minnesota beats the worst Wisconsin team in the past decade and it's cause for celebration, even 18 months later. Heh.
Just look at last season. The beatings will continue.
haters hate and you are a hater
the beatings will not be like the 20 years when we had the worst teams in the history of our program
keep thinking like you do and your pre Barry days are not too far from returning
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haters hate and you are a hater
the beatings will not be like the 20 years when we had the worst teams in the history of our program
keep thinking like you do and your pre Barry days are not too far from returning
If there's one thing I've learned through all this, it's the conversations of "just wait" rarely end with what's being waited for.
I think PJ is a pretty good coach, even if his style can be mockable. I kind of enjoy it. The proving he can beat them in Madison part, I don't know if there's much meaning to take from it. Minnesota had an OK team. Wisconsin had an OK team. One OK team won and got its bowl game. I think he'll make them better, and maybe if by pre-Barry days, the rivalry will be closer to even, perhaps that's the case.
Which 20 years are you referring to in that middle sentence?
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There is a lot to admire I think with Wisconsin and Minnesota (of late) and Indiana and even Iowa. They take poorly ranked kids and teach them to play football.
Maybe they won't ever play in an NC game, maybe that required elite talent, we'll see, but coaching up kids is not bad.
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Wisconsin and K-State should inspire all of the non-helmets across the country. You can go 12-1. You can matter. You can win.
Fleck has about another decade to go before he's on Alvarez or Snyder status, but yes, Minnesota starting 8-0 AND winning their first test against a big-boy team (PSU) is a big step towards their ultimate goal.
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FSU was another good story, just a few decades earlier
more respect for Bowden, cause he traveled to the helmets and beat them
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FSU was another good story, just a few decades earlier
more respect for Bowden, cause he traveled to the helmets and beat them
Had problems with the Canes
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Had problems with kickers.
Bowden, too, yes, but his situation was different in that FSU was independent and he was knee-deep in nearby talent.
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very different in how he gained respect as well
that also helped him recruit nearby talent
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Wisconsin and K-State should inspire all of the non-helmets across the country. You can go 12-1. You can matter. You can win.
Fleck has about another decade to go before he's on Alvarez or Snyder status, but yes, Minnesota starting 8-0 AND winning their first test against a big-boy team (PSU) is a big step towards their ultimate goal.
I'm not imagining Minnesota can't do it. But one year is just that, one year. IU fans thought they had a big step with Zook, Florida with Muschamp, Wisconsin in Year 1 with Bert before two years of disappointment. Maybe it is step one to becoming Wisconsin, but there have been a lot of false steps before.
And Wisconsin's continued success isn't guaranteed. Nothing is. But they have a good coach, and some talent, and I'll just hope that's enough.
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If there's one thing I've learned through all this, it's the conversations of "just wait" rarely end with what's being waited for.
I think PJ is a pretty good coach, even if his style can be mockable. I kind of enjoy it. The proving he can beat them in Madison part, I don't know if there's much meaning to take from it. Minnesota had an OK team. Wisconsin had an OK team. One OK team won and got its bowl game. I think he'll make them better, and maybe if by pre-Barry days, the rivalry will be closer to even, perhaps that's the case.
Which 20 years are you referring to in that middle sentence?
i guess its like 25 years from Whacker to mason and brewster and kill and claeys years
there's a problem when you change Head Coaches a lot and your admin goes on the cheap and doesn't support the football program, same as with any school
I think Fleck is here to stay and I hope I am right . He is not right for the NFL, not sure his motivation would work there. and yes other schools might come calling. the question will be if the Admin will continue to pay what they need to to keep a good coach or revert back to a Whacker or Kill type hire
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for many up & coming coaches, it's not about $$$
It's about landing a spot where the recruiting is good enough to play for conference and national titles and put you name in the national history books
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Had problems with the Canes
(https://scontent.ffod1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-0/p180x540/109314781_138443107897805_2011921218614704518_o.jpg?_nc_cat=105&_nc_sid=825194&_nc_ohc=3hdcDTn2tBgAX_YLxPB&_nc_ht=scontent.ffod1-1.fna&_nc_tp=6&oh=c7d26bb205913540f2b3db0a377c4ca6&oe=5F351872)
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haters hate and you are a hater
the beatings will not be like the 20 years when we had the worst teams in the history of our program
keep thinking like you do and your pre Barry days are not too far from returning
As if anything I think is gonna matter to the Wisconsin Football Program.
I laughed. Thanks.
The beatings will continue. Need another 14 year streak.
And yeah, which 20 years are you talking about? Because, I'm 53 and I've only been alive for one Minnesota championship. I was not quite 1 then, so I don't remember it.