It sounds like Moe Wagner keeps developing. Germany was middle of the pack in the FIBA U-20 European Championships, but Mo led the team in points (16.1 pts) and rebounds (5.3 rbs).
At what point do you realize your metric is garbage and go back to the lab?
Apparently OSU is in for a big season, and Purdue is going to be better without Swanigan
http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/20163677/surprise-experienced-wichita-state-shockers-top-summer-bpi-update
At what point do you realize your metric is garbage and go back to the lab?
Apparently OSU is in for a big season, and Purdue is going to be better without Swanigan
http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/20163677/surprise-experienced-wichita-state-shockers-top-summer-bpi-update
You know I love me some metrics, and while I don't have much love for BPI, I think this particular complaint is interesting and worth meditating on.It was really the OSU thing that jumped out at me. I don't want it to merely mirror back my preconceived notions. This has MSU lower than pretty much anywhere else, and there I do want to see why, more out of curiosity and whether expectations need to be tempered. But with the OSU thing, it jumped out as so oddly indefensible that I couldn't think of any sort of meaningful input that would result in OSU being vastly improved this year.
I'm assuming you're not earth-shatteringly mad at the Shockers (maybe you are), but I'll look at the Purdue and OSU things.
Purdue: They return just shy of 80 percent of their minutes. I think Biggie was damn good, but I also wouldn't be blown away if a super seasoned team could be that good or better. I saw UW get better without Alando Tucker. MSU took a slight step back when it lost Green, plus another two starters from his last team. It also stands to reason Purdue is over-ranked because BPI might not put enough emphasis on starz and too much on returning players (thus hurting one-and-done-reliant teams). Of course, fans might also put too much emphasis on the biggest names, but who knows?
OSU: This one seemed weird. OSU probably didn't move up in coach given their metric, lost a lot of the roster, isn't bringing in five-stars. But then I read closer, and they really should emphasize this: "One factor not considered in preseason BPI 1.0 is transfers." So that projection assumes OSU is returning seven rotation players and adding a pair of four-stars, losing only Thompson and Loving. If that was the case, a jump from the mid-60s to 30 is not all that illogical.
Now all this asks a larger question of metrics-based projections, what do we want from them? Do we want them to about reflect our preconceived narratives? Because if we do, why would we have them? I suppose they did their job, providing something different and making us salty they don't match what we think (granted we can't often agree about how we think things will go). In theory they're supposed to give a reasonable guess of what's to come, but even if it's a really good guess, chances are it will look different enough from the final product that you can nitpick if you so choose. Seasons are long and weird with so many moving pieces. What makes a preseason projection particularly meaningful and not garbage?
(I guess I look at a computer ranking and when something is weird, I don't say, "Ah-HA, wrong." I ask why. And the why usually ends up being at least interesting)
It was really the OSU thing that jumped out at me. I don't want it to merely mirror back my preconceived notions. This has MSU lower than pretty much anywhere else, and there I do want to see why, more out of curiosity and whether expectations need to be tempered. But with the OSU thing, it jumped out as so oddly indefensible that I couldn't think of any sort of meaningful input that would result in OSU being vastly improved this year.
Does it give any insight as to why transfers don't count? That seems like an odd and unnecessary thing to omit.
They say transfers don't count... What about early entrants to the NBA? If they're assuming Biggie couldn't have transferred away, are they also assuming he didn't leave for the NBA?
....and the single play schedules have come out for the coming year.Ditto MSU-UM.
....and yet AGAIN, Purdue and IU only play once (@IU).
....UN.....Bleeping.....Believable. :91:
Ditto MSU-UM.
Per Twitter, since Maryland and Rutgers joined the Big Ten, they've played MSU more than UM has
10/22/2017 | Red/White Scrimmage | Madison, WI | Details | |
11/5/2017 | UW-Stout | Madison, WI | Details (exhibition) | |
11/10/2017 | South Carolina State | Madison, WI | Details | |
11/12/2017 | Yale | Madison, WI | Details | |
11/16/2017 | Xavier | Madison, WI | Details | |
2017 Hall of Fame Classic (http://www.sprintcenter.com/events/detail/hall-of-fame-classic) | ||||
11/20/2017 | Baylor | Kansas City, KS | 8:30 PM | Details |
11/21/2017 | Creighton/UCLA | Kansas City, KS | TBD | Details |
11/24/2017 | Milwaukee | Madison, WI | Details | |
11/27/2017 | Virginia | Charlottesville, VA | Details | |
(conf games) | ||||
12/6/2017 | Temple | Philadelphia, PA | Details | |
12/9/2017 | Marquette | Madison, WI | Details | |
12/13/2017 | Western Kentucky | Madison, WI | Details | |
12/23/2017 | Green Bay | Madison, WI | Details | |
12/27/2017 | Chicago State | Madison, WI | Details | |
12/30/2017 | UMass Lowell | Madison, WI | Details |
Here's Michigan's full schedule:I can live with the Monday nights if they get rid of Friday night. Particularly the Friday-Sunday turnarounds.
http://www.umhoops.com/2017/08/16/big-ten-announces-2017-18-conference-schedule/
My early prediction is 21-10 (11-7).
Hopefully the Monday night conference games is a one-year thing to allow for a condensed schedule as a result of playing the tournament in NYC.
Big Ten programs are preparing for a 20-game league schedule in 2018-2019 season
https://www.fanragsports.com/news/rothstein-big-ten-programs-preparing-20-game-league-schedule/ (https://www.fanragsports.com/news/rothstein-big-ten-programs-preparing-20-game-league-schedule/)
Didn't we already hear this and discuss it on the old board?
Anyway, I'm in favor!
I just noticed this so I have to comment:
Over on ELA's football predictions thread (http://www.cfb51.com/index.php?topic=238.90) he has Ohio State and Wisconsin playing in the B1GCG in Indianapolis at 8pm on Saturday, December 2.
Now I just came here to see that the B1G has Ohio State playing a Basketball game against the Badgers in Madison on the same day. I can't see how this could possibly be a good thing. Even if my team isn't in the B1GCG, I'll still be more interested in the B1GCG on December 1 than in some early BB game. It just seems silly to me to effectively compete against yourself for ratings.
Well, they may play earlier in the day. I didn't see a time listed for the BB game. A lot of weekend games occur earlier. Especially if the seasons are working out such that it will be a likely conflict, the networks who get the BB game might deliberately avoid the conflict because they know the ratings would suck.I guess, at least in theory, that the BB game might actually get better ratings if you scheduled it as a lead-in. Ie, the B1GCG is scheduled for 8pm so if either Ohio State or Wisconsin is in it, they could set the BB game for 5 or 6 and I imagine that a lot of B1GCG game-watch parties would have it on as the pregame entertainment.
Looks like Purdue is @ Maryland on 12/1 and vs Northwestern on 12/3, so neither conflict with the CCGs... Looks like it'll be a good weekend for sports!Cool. You won't have to worry about missing a Purdue hoops game while you're in Indy watching Purdue Foo... Nevermind. :93:
Cool. You won't have to worry about missing a Purdue hoops game while you're in Indy watching Purdue Foo... Nevermind. :93:
Rank | Coach | School | Vote percentage |
1. | John Beilein | Michigan (https://www.cbssports.com/collegebasketball/teams/page/MICH/michigan-wolverines) | 26.6 percent |
2. | Mike Brey | Notre Dame (https://www.cbssports.com/collegebasketball/teams/page/ND/notre-dame-fighting-irish) | 10.5 percent |
T3. | Tony Bennett | Virginia (https://www.cbssports.com/collegebasketball/teams/page/UVA/virginia-cavaliers) | 7.6 percent |
T3. | Greg Gard | Wisconsin (https://www.cbssports.com/collegebasketball/teams/page/WISC/wisconsin-badgers) | 7.6 percent |
5. | Mark Few | Gonzaga (https://www.cbssports.com/collegebasketball/teams/page/GONZAG/gonzaga-bulldogs) | 5.7 percent |
T6. | Chris Holtmann | Ohio State (https://www.cbssports.com/collegebasketball/teams/page/OHIOST/ohio-st-buckeyes) | 4.6 percent |
T6. | Tom Izzo | Michigan State (https://www.cbssports.com/collegebasketball/teams/page/MICHST/michigan-st-spartans) | 4.8 percent |
T6. | Bruce Weber | Kansas State (https://www.cbssports.com/collegebasketball/teams/page/KSTATE/kansas-st-wildcats) | 4.8 percent |
Good to see the Big Ten represent on this list of coaches who do it the right way, as voted on by other coaches. From CBS:I think it's more or less a vote of which coaches consistently win big without getting comparable recruiting results. Obviously UM and UW don't have a ton of blue chippers. MSU has more, particularly very recently, but considering a lot would consider them a basketball "helmet" they rarely pull in at that level. I think until Miles Bridges they had 2 McD AAs in the previous 13 years since SHannon Brown in 2003. Kentucky, Duke, Louisville, Kansas, UNC, have at least that many every year. The few the do get are usually in state, or at least Indiana or Ohio. I can't think of the last major recruit they got from outside MI or any bordering state (WI, IN, OH). Chris Allen in like 2008?
Who is the high-major coach you genuinely believe does everything by the book and operates completely within the NCAA's rulebook?
Rank Coach School Vote percentage 1. John Beilein Michigan (https://www.cbssports.com/collegebasketball/teams/page/MICH/michigan-wolverines) 26.6 percent 2. Mike Brey Notre Dame (https://www.cbssports.com/collegebasketball/teams/page/ND/notre-dame-fighting-irish) 10.5 percent T3. Tony Bennett Virginia (https://www.cbssports.com/collegebasketball/teams/page/UVA/virginia-cavaliers) 7.6 percent T3. Greg Gard Wisconsin (https://www.cbssports.com/collegebasketball/teams/page/WISC/wisconsin-badgers) 7.6 percent 5. Mark Few Gonzaga (https://www.cbssports.com/collegebasketball/teams/page/GONZAG/gonzaga-bulldogs) 5.7 percent T6. Chris Holtmann Ohio State (https://www.cbssports.com/collegebasketball/teams/page/OHIOST/ohio-st-buckeyes) 4.6 percent T6. Tom Izzo Michigan State (https://www.cbssports.com/collegebasketball/teams/page/MICHST/michigan-st-spartans) 4.8 percent T6. Bruce Weber Kansas State (https://www.cbssports.com/collegebasketball/teams/page/KSTATE/kansas-st-wildcats) 4.8 percent
MSU seemingly rounds out their 2018 class with 3* SF Aaron Henry from Indiana.Also will be interesting to follow the career of Talen Horton-Tucker. Seems like MSU had one schollie left and it came down to these to similarish players as to who got the offer.
Chose MSU over Indiana, Xavier, UConn and OSU.
Pretty solid offer list for a kid ranked #154 in the composite rankings right now.
Very intrigued by MSU's 2018 class. Seems to be full of four year kids. It's currently ranked as the #3 class in the country, because it's 5 deep. But only one (#65 Marcus Bingham) is ranked in the composite top 100. PG Foster Loyer is the one most people who follow this sort of thing can't believe isn't higher.
The other upside is Thomas Kithier transferring to Clarkston means he'll spend his senior year playing with his future PG in Loyer.
Drake Harris is joining the basketball team. He was a top 100 recruit in high school and committed to Michigan State for both sports, originally. This makes sense because even if he doesn't end up making the rotation, he can still be a graduate transfer after this season. At worst, he's a useful practice player and provides more competition at the 2/3 guard spots behind Abdur-Rahkman, and if he does manage to break in the rotation and play well, he could end up being a starter next year (not that I expect this to happen, of course).Might as well get the full college experience and sit on as many benches in Ann Arbor as possible.
Might as well get the full college experience and sit on as many benches in Ann Arbor as possible.LOL
Also will be interesting to follow the career of Talen Horton-Tucker. Seems like MSU had one schollie left and it came down to these to similarish players as to who got the offer.And now it seems like Michigan may be his leader.
I'm of the view that this matter (or behavior) is not at all limited to those identified in the indictment. I would expect this activity to occur at a much broader scale.I don't think to the tune of $100,000 payments
I like the Balco analogy.Not a bad analogy, but you better hope the outcome is different. That was one of the few high-profile defeats for the Federales.
Please dear God let Pitino go down in flames. I also would mind Coach K being flung in there as well even though there doesn't seem to be any mention of him or Duke. Once upon a time I really like coach K, but he's turned into a toolbox over the last decade.I don't like K, but I don't think he's a cheater.
I don't think anyone would be wise to say this coach or that coach "does it clean"Even if Michigan is implicated I would need to see a lot more than they showed with Louisville to believe Beilein was involved. Pitino has burned any shred of belief he should get.
We have no idea how deep this goes.
Even if Michigan is implicated I would need to see a lot more than they showed with Louisville to believe Beilein was involved. Pitino has burned any shred of belief he should get.Exactly this.
Some rumors on twitter that Pitino will be fired todayAfter I read his statement (posted above) I was kinda thinking (hoping?) he would be done today.
Exactly this.I agree. I feel pretty darn good about the B1G. Heck most of the top coaches and programs in our conference have all but bailed on the Chicago market due to the AAU control and other ugly inner-workings.
I trust Beilein. I trust Izzo. I trust Gard. Those guys do it right.
In fact, I think the B1G is pretty darn clean overall, except that kid up in the Twin Cities. I don't like his life mentor.
Which are the Adidas schools in the Big Ten now?
Exactly this.Nebraska for sure. Although they released a statement saying they had heard nothing from the FBI or NCAA on the matter.
I trust Beilein. I trust Izzo. I trust Gard. Those guys do it right.
In fact, I think the B1G is pretty darn clean overall, except that kid up in the Twin Cities. I don't like his life mentor.
Which are the Adidas schools in the Big Ten now?
Louisville AD firedThere's that tail wagging the dog thing.
Pitino out as well, per sources. Not official yet, but realllllllllly likely.He better be out. Otherwise he's got pictured of someone doing something.
Exactly this.Completely agree with this. I'd be shocked if any major programs in the B1G were intimately involved in this.
I trust Beilein. I trust Izzo. I trust Gard. Those guys do it right.
In fact, I think the B1G is pretty darn clean overall, except that kid up in the Twin Cities. I don't like his life mentor.
Which are the Adidas schools in the Big Ten now?
Completely agree with this. I'd be shocked if any major programs in the B1G were intimately involved in this.I wouldn't, and I don't understand why anyone would assume that this activity only involves Adidas schools.
I wouldn't, and I don't understand why anyone would assume that this activity only involves Adidas schools.Agreed.
I wouldn't, and I don't understand why anyone would assume that this activity only involves Adidas schools.I do not think, for even a minute, that this activity only involves Adidas schools. The issue is that the NCAA doesn't have subpoena power and as far as we know so far, the FBI's investigation exclusively involves shady dealings by Adidas. Thus, the current scandal seems likely to involve Adidas schools exclusively. If it turns out that they also have an informant at Nike, UA, or Russell then that is a different story.
I do not think, for even a minute, that this activity only involves Adidas schools. The issue is that the NCAA doesn't have subpoena power and as far as we know so far, the FBI's investigation exclusively involves shady dealings by Adidas. Thus, the current scandal seems likely to involve Adidas schools exclusively. If it turns out that they also have an informant at Nike, UA, or Russell then that is a different story.Exactly. The informant is(was) an Adidas employee. Certainly someone could roll over and involve Nike & UA schools in a heartbeat. It's honestly too early to tell how far this goes.
Nike was mentioned in the report as well.Yes. The Adidas rep worked for Nike until recently. If you look at the schools implicated you have Under Armor, Nike, and Adidas schools all represented.
Completely agree with this. I'd be shocked if any major programs in the B1G were intimately involved in this.
I wouldn't, and I don't understand why anyone would assume that this activity only involves Adidas schools.
I do think the B1G has a well-deserved reputation for being somewhat clean, but I wouldn't be shocked to see that at least one program ends up tarnished in this. Recruiting is just too competitive for me to believe *everyone* in the conference is clean.One of the guys arrested was Underwood's too guy at Oklahoma State, so there's at least a tie.
Given how much we as Purdue fans complain about Painter's recruiting misses, I can only hope that the fact that we've lost recruits to some of these other programs is evidence that we were playing clean while others were playing dirty.
Not the worst weekend for the #1 recruit in the nation for 2019 to be visiting East Lansing on the heels of all of this.Who is it?
Particularly considering the school everyone assumed was leading (Miami) might be facing some heat.
Who is it?Vernon Carey.
Meanwhile Michigan is getting a visit from Colin Castleton this weekend, who appears to be very similar to Moe Wagner. Illinois is his other top offer, where he has already visited.Castleton was a top Purdue target, but we stopped recruiting after Duwouna (sp?) committed as they were basically the same position for us and we only had one spot. Duwouna committed because he knew Castleton was about to take an official visit, and didn't want to lose his spot.
Taylor Currie decommitted from Michigan. He originally committed as a 2019 recruit and then decided he would graduate in 2018.Currie visiting Wisconsin
Meanwhile Michigan is getting a visit from Colin Castleton this weekend, who appears to be very similar to Moe Wagner. Illinois is his other top offer, where he has already visited. It's hard to say if/how interrelated these updates are. I think Currie still has an offer for 2019 (he would have likely just redshirted in 2018 if he enrolled then, anyway). Time will tell how this works out....
I really wish Cal would go down with this shoe-gate episode as well. It doesn't feel right to see the Kentucky fans shooting off at Louisville, while trying to hold some moral high ground.
4* SG Tyler Herro from Milwaukee decommits from UW. Just committed a month ago. Weird. Except in crootin these days, it's really not.Actually 247 doesn't specify year in their timeline, and that was the last event, so I assumed it was just this year, but he committed in September 2016.
4* SG Tyler Herro from Milwaukee decommits from UW. Just committed a month ago. Weird. Except in crootin these days, it's really not.WTF?
My mood because I chose the right school. Feels good to be a part of a university that does things the right way?? pic.twitter.com/qedTFdyhkY (https://t.co/qedTFdyhkY)
— (https://247sports.com/Player/Tyler-Herro-85253)Tyler Herro (https://247sports.com/Player/Tyler-Herro-85253) (@raf_tyler) September 27, 2017 (https://twitter.com/raf_tyler/status/913100927153848321)
I like the 20 game schedule. Do any of the schools have more than 2 or 3 non-conference rivalries that they play every year?I don't think any have more than 1, and most have none.
I don't think any have more than 1, and most have none.That's what I suspected.
Illinois plays Missouri every yearThose were the only two I could think of.
I know Indiana and Kentucky stopped playing. Who else has a regular non-conf rival? I am having a hard time coming up with any of them
MSU opens at #2 in the coaches poll, Duke #1With Kansas and Kentucky to follow, barring a major upset in the opening weekend, the Champions Classic in Chicago will be #1 Duke vs. #2 MSU and #3 Kansas vs. #4 Kentucky. And nobody will care, because, tournament.
http://sportspolls.usatoday.com/ncaa/basketball-men/polls/coaches-poll/
YuckAgreed. It would be bad enough once every ten years but once every five is just silly. The only good thing is that I was actually concerned it was going to be more than once every five years.
@kylebaustin
Jim Delany said Big Ten hopes to have an 80/20 split between Big Ten tourneys in the midwest and in the east
Those were the only two I could think of.IU and Purdue have been doing the Crossroads Classic for many years now, usually with Butler and ND>
Actually, I doubt that. I think that was a cop-out that allowed them to protect Purdue/IU and UM/MSU without having to define protected rivalries for other teams. Since the only other in-state matchup is Illinois/NU, it was easy to add them, despite the fact that Illinois and NU are not really long-standing basketball rivals.
Obviously they want to protect all three of the in-state rivalries.
Do any of the newbs still play their old rivals? Maryland?Nebraska v Creighton is a fairly regular occurrence.
Ahem.I can't remember the last time UW and MU didn't play.
In addition to Marquette, UW often plays uwm and GB
Unrelated to the sort of post season scrimmages mentionedWhy isn't Illinois playing any exhibition games?
Illinois will scrimmage Indiana State on Sunday and Vanderbilt on the 29th since there are no exhibition games this year
I don't get why Michigan is so underrated. Walton was good, but Simmons should be all-BigTen caliber, as well as a grad-transfer where he was all-MAC at Ohio and Matthews (the transfer from Kentucky) should be better than Irvin. Donnal wasn't that great, either, so one of the young big men should adequately replace him behind Wagner. I don't discount the loss of DJ Wilson, but his production is still replaceable.Yeah, IMO it all comes down to Simmons. Beilein's teams have fared how their point guard has fared. If he is All-Big Ten caliber (I have no idea, although that seems a touch lofty) then Michigan is a no brainer top 20 team. If he struggles, they may struggle just to get into the tourney. I have to imagine they are going to get destroyed on the glass, but JB teams tend to do that, with little effect.
Fortunately the schedule will let them prove themselves pretty quickly with the Maui Tournament, and non-con games @Texas, UCLA, and @North Carolina.
Yeah, IMO it all comes down to Simmons. Beilein's teams have fared how their point guard has fared. If he is All-Big Ten caliber (I have no idea, although that seems a touch lofty) then Michigan is a no brainer top 20 team. If he struggles, they may struggle just to get into the tourney. I have to imagine they are going to get destroyed on the glass, but JB teams tend to do that, with little effect.Nailed it. And I would add to it that it shows itself even more towards the end of the season. Walton, Burke, and Morris all had good seasons on years Michigan made runs, but they really elevated come Feb/March. They carried teams on their back.
MSU opens at #2 in the coaches poll, Duke #1Same in the AP Poll released today, Duke #1, MSU #2. They play each other the 2nd game of the season.
http://sportspolls.usatoday.com/ncaa/basketball-men/polls/coaches-poll/
Minnesota at #15, Northwestern at #20 and Purdue at #21 are the other Big Ten teams.
Wisconsin, Maryland and Michigan all receiving votes
Bowen might be trying to pull a Cam Newton and wants eligibility reinstated because "my daddy's the one who took the money, I gots nut'tin to do with that." The FBI has already cleared him (ie, they will not prosecute him). Now it's up to the NCAA to see if they have a spine or not.I'm sure his teammates and the Louisville fans will embrace the kid who finally cost Pitino his job
Supposedly Purdue had a secret scrimmage against Wet Virginia yesterday and won by about 12 points.Yeah, I look more at player performance than team. You never really know how the coaches deal with player rotations, and groupings that you may never see again. That's why Langford is concerning to me. Having Ferris State hang around for 30 minutes isn't.
I don't read much either into these scrimmages, but that is still somewhat of a good sign considering WVU is a top 15 team.
Supposedly Purdue had a secret scrimmage against Wet Virginia yesterday and won by about 12 points.Allegedly OSU beat Xavier in a secret scrimmage.
I don't read much either into these scrimmages, but that is still somewhat of a good sign considering WVU is a top 15 team.
Nice to see someone of Knight's stature actually taking Wooden to task for what everyone knew was going onI wish more people would come out and say it. Alcindor made more at UCLA than he did in Milwaukee.
http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/21336574/bob-knight-criticizes-john-wooden-ucla-bruins-recruiting-practices
Indiana getting blown out at home by Indiana State:86:
Illinois hangs a 102 on Southern and beats them by nearly 50.The SWAC and MEAC have gotten exponentially worse in the last 15 years it seems like
Buckeyes win against Robert Morris by a bundle.RMU hasn't been quite the same the last couple years, but overall they've been a decent low major for a decade now. That margin was legitimately eye opening
Didn't see the Michigan - North Florida game since I was at Maryland and it wasn't televised, anyway, but from what I can tell from coverage from UMHoops, it appears that the defense is concerning, particularly against 3s, but the offense emerged late, while the team also dominated in terms of turnovers and to a lesser extent, defensive rebounding. Apparently, Teske even scored a 3, so I'll be watching out for that.I'm sure you enjoyed the game, but I hope you had a good experience as well.
Central Michigan is on Monday, which will be on the BTN. The Chippewas are probably still a mid-level MAC team, but we'll see.
Didn't see the Michigan - North Florida game since I was at Maryland and it wasn't televised, anyway, but from what I can tell from coverage from UMHoops, it appears that the defense is concerning, particularly against 3s, but the offense emerged late, while the team also dominated in terms of turnovers and to a lesser extent, defensive rebounding. Apparently, Teske even scored a 3, so I'll be watching out for that.A lot worse without Marcus Keene, who led D1 in scoring at over 30 ppg last year, and the inexplicably went pro, even though everyone knew he wasn't an NBA player. Went undrafted, now playing in Europe
Central Michigan is on Monday, which will be on the BTN. The Chippewas are probably still a mid-level MAC team, but we'll see.
2018 Tyler Herro has decomitted from WisconsinCalipari was at his school and offered. Sounds like UK is a done deal for the kid.
2017-18 Men's Basketball Roster * walk on | |||||||
No. | Image | Name | Pos. | Ht. | Wt. | Year | Hometown |
0 | (https://www.cfb51.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Ffile%3A%2F%2F%2FC%3A%2FUsers%2FJMeier%2FAppData%2FLocal%2FTemp%2Fmsohtmlclip1%2F01%2Fclip_image001.jpg&hash=b985eac5fa43ffb1f7d5c3921f884b29) | D'Mitrik Trice(https://www.cfb51.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Ffile%3A%2F%2F%2FC%3A%2FUsers%2FJMeier%2FAppData%2FLocal%2FTemp%2Fmsohtmlclip1%2F01%2Fclip_image002.png&hash=0d4881cf18c8ef09c6ef524a909c2b79) (http://www.uwbadgers.com/roster.aspx?rp_id=5153&path=mbball) | G | 6-0 | 177 | So. | Huber Heights, Ohio |
1 | (https://www.cfb51.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Ffile%3A%2F%2F%2FC%3A%2FUsers%2FJMeier%2FAppData%2FLocal%2FTemp%2Fmsohtmlclip1%2F01%2Fclip_image003.jpg&hash=725c37dfd12410f7df868f1e00a8161a) | Brevin Pritzl(https://www.cfb51.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Ffile%3A%2F%2F%2FC%3A%2FUsers%2FJMeier%2FAppData%2FLocal%2FTemp%2Fmsohtmlclip1%2F01%2Fclip_image002.png&hash=0d4881cf18c8ef09c6ef524a909c2b79) (http://www.uwbadgers.com/roster.aspx?rp_id=5150&path=mbball) | G | 6-3 | 197 | R-So. | De Pere, Wis. |
2 | (https://www.cfb51.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Ffile%3A%2F%2F%2FC%3A%2FUsers%2FJMeier%2FAppData%2FLocal%2FTemp%2Fmsohtmlclip1%2F01%2Fclip_image004.jpg&hash=d12ccfb52982292847dccdbb9f94c9f5) | Aleem Ford(https://www.cfb51.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Ffile%3A%2F%2F%2FC%3A%2FUsers%2FJMeier%2FAppData%2FLocal%2FTemp%2Fmsohtmlclip1%2F01%2Fclip_image002.png&hash=0d4881cf18c8ef09c6ef524a909c2b79) (http://www.uwbadgers.com/roster.aspx?rp_id=5145&path=mbball) | F | 6-8 | 215 | R-Fr. | Lawrenceville, Ga. |
3 * | (https://www.cfb51.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Ffile%3A%2F%2F%2FC%3A%2FUsers%2FJMeier%2FAppData%2FLocal%2FTemp%2Fmsohtmlclip1%2F01%2Fclip_image005.jpg&hash=4caa7c49c4f508f2645452f0f485b832) | Walt McGrory (http://www.uwbadgers.com/roster.aspx?rp_id=5194&path=mbball) | G | 6-3 | 210 | Fr. | Minneapolis, Minn. |
4 * | (https://www.cfb51.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Ffile%3A%2F%2F%2FC%3A%2FUsers%2FJMeier%2FAppData%2FLocal%2FTemp%2Fmsohtmlclip1%2F01%2Fclip_image006.jpg&hash=feaa17a6a4f54267c1888a57457f87ea) | Matt Ferris (http://www.uwbadgers.com/roster.aspx?rp_id=5144&path=mbball) | G | 6-6 | 205 | R-Jr. | Appleton, Wis. |
5 * | (https://www.cfb51.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Ffile%3A%2F%2F%2FC%3A%2FUsers%2FJMeier%2FAppData%2FLocal%2FTemp%2Fmsohtmlclip1%2F01%2Fclip_image007.jpg&hash=4656dbc43f4a4d48b42cb037fd21ea1b) | Aaron Moesch(https://www.cfb51.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Ffile%3A%2F%2F%2FC%3A%2FUsers%2FJMeier%2FAppData%2FLocal%2FTemp%2Fmsohtmlclip1%2F01%2Fclip_image002.png&hash=0d4881cf18c8ef09c6ef524a909c2b79) (http://www.uwbadgers.com/roster.aspx?rp_id=5149&path=mbball) | F | 6-8 | 220 | R-Sr. | Green Bay, Wis. |
11 | (https://www.cfb51.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Ffile%3A%2F%2F%2FC%3A%2FUsers%2FJMeier%2FAppData%2FLocal%2FTemp%2Fmsohtmlclip1%2F01%2Fclip_image008.jpg&hash=b55e7eaacf0adc25f5b32cdf6f38bec7) | Andy Van Vliet(https://www.cfb51.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Ffile%3A%2F%2F%2FC%3A%2FUsers%2FJMeier%2FAppData%2FLocal%2FTemp%2Fmsohtmlclip1%2F01%2Fclip_image002.png&hash=0d4881cf18c8ef09c6ef524a909c2b79) (http://www.uwbadgers.com/roster.aspx?rp_id=5154&path=mbball) | F | 7-0 | 228 | Jr. | Antwerp, Belgium |
12 * | (https://www.cfb51.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Ffile%3A%2F%2F%2FC%3A%2FUsers%2FJMeier%2FAppData%2FLocal%2FTemp%2Fmsohtmlclip1%2F01%2Fclip_image009.jpg&hash=fdcec96f68bd7131b4db6dc1e4a2de6b) | Trevor Anderson (http://www.uwbadgers.com/roster.aspx?rp_id=5193&path=mbball) | G | 6-2 | 196 | So. | Stevens Point, Wis. |
15 | (https://www.cfb51.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Ffile%3A%2F%2F%2FC%3A%2FUsers%2FJMeier%2FAppData%2FLocal%2FTemp%2Fmsohtmlclip1%2F01%2Fclip_image010.jpg&hash=694492f7ff35b534097ee16b59bff3c5) | Charles Thomas, IV (http://www.uwbadgers.com/roster.aspx?rp_id=5152&path=mbball) | F | 6-8 | 255 | Jr. | Highland, Md. |
20 * | (https://www.cfb51.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Ffile%3A%2F%2F%2FC%3A%2FUsers%2FJMeier%2FAppData%2FLocal%2FTemp%2Fmsohtmlclip1%2F01%2Fclip_image011.jpg&hash=e7d079621aa3085b69fe2cb13b9edd97) | T.J. Schlundt (http://www.uwbadgers.com/roster.aspx?rp_id=5151&path=mbball) | G | 6-5 | 197 | R-Jr. | Oconomowoc, Wis. |
21 | (https://www.cfb51.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Ffile%3A%2F%2F%2FC%3A%2FUsers%2FJMeier%2FAppData%2FLocal%2FTemp%2Fmsohtmlclip1%2F01%2Fclip_image012.jpg&hash=a036a8ced830942639652ab7b5a4f154) | Khalil Iverson (http://www.uwbadgers.com/roster.aspx?rp_id=5148&path=mbball) | G/F | 6-5 | 210 | Jr. | Delaware, Ohio |
22 | (https://www.cfb51.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Ffile%3A%2F%2F%2FC%3A%2FUsers%2FJMeier%2FAppData%2FLocal%2FTemp%2Fmsohtmlclip1%2F01%2Fclip_image013.jpg&hash=524b964f4679fc26d8896cb2ef6cd9ce) | Ethan Happ (http://www.uwbadgers.com/roster.aspx?rp_id=5146&path=mbball) | F | 6-10 | 235 | R-Jr. | Milan, Ill. |
23 | (https://www.cfb51.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Ffile%3A%2F%2F%2FC%3A%2FUsers%2FJMeier%2FAppData%2FLocal%2FTemp%2Fmsohtmlclip1%2F01%2Fclip_image014.jpg&hash=9c825995c155a68f085179009cc89ed7) | Kobe King (http://www.uwbadgers.com/roster.aspx?rp_id=5157&path=mbball) | G | 6-4 | 203 | Fr. | La Crosse, Wis. |
25 | (https://www.cfb51.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Ffile%3A%2F%2F%2FC%3A%2FUsers%2FJMeier%2FAppData%2FLocal%2FTemp%2Fmsohtmlclip1%2F01%2Fclip_image015.jpg&hash=565ed123b8d4f6a909fab02441f14865) | Alex Illikainen(https://www.cfb51.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Ffile%3A%2F%2F%2FC%3A%2FUsers%2FJMeier%2FAppData%2FLocal%2FTemp%2Fmsohtmlclip1%2F01%2Fclip_image002.png&hash=0d4881cf18c8ef09c6ef524a909c2b79) (http://www.uwbadgers.com/roster.aspx?rp_id=5147&path=mbball) | F | 6-9 | 231 | Jr. | Grand Rapids, Minn. |
31 * | (https://www.cfb51.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Ffile%3A%2F%2F%2FC%3A%2FUsers%2FJMeier%2FAppData%2FLocal%2FTemp%2Fmsohtmlclip1%2F01%2Fclip_image016.jpg&hash=68ded33890c041462051cc1df0480e51) | Michael Ballard (http://www.uwbadgers.com/roster.aspx?rp_id=5143&path=mbball) | G | 6-4 | 197 | R-Fr. | Oak Park, Ill. |
34 | (https://www.cfb51.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Ffile%3A%2F%2F%2FC%3A%2FUsers%2FJMeier%2FAppData%2FLocal%2FTemp%2Fmsohtmlclip1%2F01%2Fclip_image017.jpg&hash=687ca000c0f29a55b03a425a02f3ef92) | Brad Davison (http://www.uwbadgers.com/roster.aspx?rp_id=5155&path=mbball) | G | 6-3 | 205 | Fr. | Maple Grove, Minn. |
35 | (https://www.cfb51.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Ffile%3A%2F%2F%2FC%3A%2FUsers%2FJMeier%2FAppData%2FLocal%2FTemp%2Fmsohtmlclip1%2F01%2Fclip_image018.jpg&hash=a37ff44d1ae2e8e8b3bac7e1b44bff06) | Nate Reuvers (http://www.uwbadgers.com/roster.aspx?rp_id=5156&path=mbball) | F | 6-10 | 215 | Fr. | Lakeville, Minn. |
Battle of the floor slappers.Is the ACC pissed at Maryland that they never give us Maryland-Duke in the Challenge. The hate there is real.
Come on green.
Is the ACC pissed at Maryland that they never give us Maryland-Duke in the Challenge. The hate there is real.No, that would be coach rat face.
No, that would be coach rat face.Huh?
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/dc-sports-bog/wp/2013/09/12/coach-k-we-wont-schedule-maryland/?utm_term=.54c30cb4a144
You don't "know" as much as you think you "know", but everyone who watched that game knows this....
Players from both teams were slapping the floor.
Imitation is the greatest form of flattery I guess.
I guess I've just always been "anti-douche bag", so if that's hate, so be it.
Calipari was at his school and offered. Sounds like UK is a done deal for the kid.Done. Says his prayers let him to a blue blood. Praying to the devil, or what??
Does Maryland maintain any ACC rivalries?Many ACC programs are still angry about the departure and won't have anything to do with Maryland. Not sure how long that will last. North Carolina seems to be the least resistant. The two schools play each other in several sports now. That's partly because they are both pretty good at a lot of the same non-revenue sports. I think Virginia will be the next to mellow out. Both fan bases want that, I think.
Yeah, the schedule this year is a disaster. Everyone has problems. I think MSU has like 7 of first 9 at home, then 7 of last 9 on the road. Then a fun Friday night in Madison, followed by Sunday afternoon in College Park. Nothing like road games against two good teams, 36 hours apart. There is no more assured loss on the schedule than that game at Maryland on zero rest./Does not enjoy the prospect of losing a slugfest to MSU only to see the loss lose value two days later.
But yeah, it's the Friday and Monday games creating that problem, plus the moronic week early MSG to tourney. It's awful, across the board.
Many ACC programs are still angry about the departure and won't have anything to do with Maryland. Not sure how long that will last. North Carolina seems to be the least resistant. The two schools play each other in several sports now. That's partly because they are both pretty good at a lot of the same non-revenue sports. I think Virginia will be the next to mellow out. Both fan bases want that, I think.Huh. The two schools that a lot of B1G folks think might be on our radar for the next round of expansion...
At least you have back to back road games.LOL
/Does not enjoy the prospect of losing a slugfest to MSU only to see the loss lose value two days later.Yup, that's right, the finale is at Wisconsin.
Also, that game is in EL.
On the UW side, I'm excited for this Xavier game.Xavier is point to last year's tourney for a revenge point. But only Happ returns from that team as a starter so I don't know how much revenge there will be other than the name on the front of the jerseys.
I don't really thing UW will win, but I vividly remember Creighton last year, when it started to dawn on me, "Oh boy, this team won't be as good as we hoped." This year's team has less pressure on that front. Play well and it's good. Pull off a win and it's gravy, plus a nice chip going forward.
The other thing I want to see is the frontcourt rotation. UW's been able to go plenty deep in blowouts of small teams. This'll be different. It seems UW's No. 6 and 7 guys will be freshman guards, so I want to see if Aleem Ford continues to get eighth man work and how that balances with Charlie Thomas. Neither seems all that reliable, but I don't know if you just get 30 minutes from Happ and Andy Van Vliet, or if they can sneak Iverson at the 4. Should be fun to start learning that the next few games, even if some Ls might come.
how is minnesota going to be this year? bama faces them in a couple weeks and we might have a decent team finally.I dont want to throw too much hyperbole out there, but if this conference didn't have the loaded and powerful Sparty team I think we would be hearing even heavier talk of the gophers for Elite Eight / Final Four mentions. They have the makeup of what you need. Experienced guard play, a couple slashers, and a couple bruisers. Lot's of athleticism among the starting five too.
UW lost a tough one. Badgers watches a go-ahead layup roll off the rim with 2:11. Then theyMostly* overall, not bad.
- Gave up a 3 on some good offense. If bounced high off the rim and in.
- A freshman got overexcited and attacked, maybe drawing uncalled contact
- UW all but forced a turnover and ended up allowing a scramble 3
- Missed a jumper
So by that point, it was six points with under a minute left and Xavier ball, so in essence over.
I'm not really mad. UW stuck with a good team, fighting back from a lot of deficits. Badgers have Happ, last year's sixth man and one edge of the rotation guy back from last year, plus two guys outside the top 8. The fight they showed with that much youth, I'll take it.
Does anyone know where I can find a list of B1G teams that each B1G team plays:Nevermind, found it: https://www.btpowerhouse.com/2017/8/1/16074578/big-ten-basketball-releases-2017-18-conference-matchups-opponents-schedule-indiana-purdueThere are still 18 games and 13 teams for each to play so for each team there still should be:
- home and away
- home only
- away only
- Four home only
- Four away only
- Five home and away
Also, I noticed in looking at Ohio State's schedule that the Buckeyes have Minnesota in NYC at MSG. Are other teams doing this as well? Are they all or just a few?Yes, I think this is the third year of it. They do a basketball/hockey doubleheader as MSG. It would make some sense if it was the same schools for both games, but I guess that would leave the non-hockey schools out of ever *getting* to play a dumb basketball game in an empty arena?
Lowest Tier: IUI think you Purdue guys are enjoying that a little bit!
Things I don't like about the B1G BB schedule:They are rectifying the in-state situation going forward.I really don't get why they would fail to schedule instate (IU/PU, NU/ILL, and MSU/M) games once each. Similarly, PSU, RU, and UMD are our eastern group and MN/UW/Iowa/UNL are our western group and it would make sense to me for those groups to play each other twice every year.
- IU/PU only play once (at IU).
- UW only plays MN and Iowa once each.
- Maryland only plays Rutgers once.
- NU/ILL only play once (atNU).
- MSU/M only play once (atMSU).
- PSU/RU only play once (atPSU).
- Iowa/UNL only play once (atUNL).
They are rectifying the in-state situation going forward.Finally!
Quote from: medinabuckeye1 (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?topic=153.msg19789#msg19789) on Fri Nov 17 2017 10:45:12 GMT-0500 (Eastern Standard Time)Yes, I think this is the third year of it. They do a basketball/hockey doubleheader as MSG. It would make some sense if it was the same schools for both games, but I guess that would leave the non-hockey schools out of ever *getting* to play a dumb basketball game in an empty arena?My wife LOVES NYC so I actually briefly thought about going. When I first looked at the date I was thinking that she and I might be off work on that Monday for MLK but alas, MLK is a week earlier.
Someone in the local media pointed out that Chris Holtmann is the voice twin of Les Miles, and he's right.Crispin on BTN and that asshat media personality on ESPN who coached for a minute at IU are voice twins too.
You can't tell the difference.
Not looking good for Big Red tonight. Not seeing that signature defense we've all come to know and love (Badger fans, only, loved it).Not sure I would be worried yet. Frankly, most of the Big Ten hasn't looked that great so far. Sadly, this might end up being one of those years (again) where the Big Ten champ is going to get a 4 seed. :c002:
Like I said, there is a lot to learn, and what I'm learning so far is that they are finally in danger of not finishing in the top 4 of this conference.
So far, so ugly.
Not looking good for Big Red tonight. Not seeing that signature defense we've all come to know and love (Badger fans, only, loved it).Rallied back, lots of fight.
Like I said, there is a lot to learn, and what I'm learning so far is that they are finally in danger of not finishing in the top 4 of this conference.
So far, so ugly.
I liked that they didn't quit. That bodes well for the future. Something is wrong with Trice though. Not liking what I'm seeing there so far.Trice is having trouble transitioning to the guy at the end of the clock. His size doesn't help, but Gard seems to have the faith in him Bo often had in guys.
Davison is a tough SOB who needs to play more.
On to UCLA tonight now.
Iowa loses to UL Lafayette in the first round of their holiday tournamentAnd follows that with a loss to South Dakota State in the consolation bracket. Yikes
Michael Porter Jr. done for the year with back surgery. Was the #1 overall recruit until Bagley reclassified from 2018 to 2017.
Too bad for the kid. Have to imagine he enters the draft after this
Braggin' Rights game got a little easier for the Illini
I dunno if UW helps or hurts the conference and don't much care. Based on some of the early returns, this is not gonna be a banner year anyway. Iowa seems to flat out suck. Northwestern is already a disappointment. Rutgers, Nebraska and Penn State probably are what they have been lately.I don't care much about the conference other than how it impacts MSU, and the weaker the conference is perceived, the more it hurts MSU. I get UW fans wouldn't much care, but for fans of the other 13 schools, the worst case scenario is for a team to pick up a bunch of OOC losses, and then improve and be successful in conference play. It won't be looked at as UW improving, but as the conference being weak.
Minny has played mostly cupcakes, but that will change soon, so we'll see. Then there is Purdue and MSU to rely on. The rest are all huge questions.
First question: On the PK80 Bracket that I found online (http://pkinvitational.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/05/PK80-Printable-Brackets.pdf) MSU is supposed to open with Georgetown but on the Worldwide Leader's schedule for MSU, they are playing DePaul. What happened there?They were supposed to play Georgetown, but they dropped out, and released some weird statement that was basically like "we don't want to play a bunch of losable games." I recall reading some DC writer blasting them for it, that this is basically the marquee event for Nike's premier basketball schools, and nobody is going to remember who wins and loses. That there's far more value in confirming your place among the basketball elite, both from a perception standpoint, and as far as your relationship with Nike, than in ducking a couple good losses.
Each bracket will produce:Yup, same as all of these 8 team preseason tourneys. I think it can be kind of a wash as far as winning first but going 2-1 vs. losing first but going 1-2. Yes, you pick up an additional loss the 2nd way, but by being in the winners bracket, you are more likely to play RPI boosting opponents. That said, this field is beyond loaded aside from Portland/Portland State, so aside from playing them, pretty much everyone should be an RPI boost, save for playing DePaul like MSU has to now.
- 3-0 Champion
- 2-1 Second place
- 2-1 Third place
- 1-2 fourth place
- 2-1 fifth place
- 1-2 sixth place
- 1-2 seventh place
- 0-3 eighth place
Do I have this right in my head?
Does anybody think Ohio State has a chance against Gonzaga?
Is it possible that Ohio State would be better off to lose to Gonzaga because they could then win two games in the losers bracket as opposed to beating Gonzaga and then probably losing two games in the winners bracket?
It's a little early to be wondering that. If Purdue wins Battle of Atlantis by beating Nova and Zona they'll jump to 6th or better in the country.Or lose in the opener to a bad Tennessee team and keep that Big Ten train rolling
Or lose in the opener to a bad Tennessee team and keep that Big Ten train rollingAnd then lose to WKU. Big Ten already managed to fall into the 7th place game in a pair of tourneys now
Pretty much a disaster day for the B1G:
Big Ten = Bad
Yeah sounds like they ran out of gas in the first half. Not really expecting them to beat Gonzaga under any circumstances, especially in the middle of the night
OSU blows a 15 point lead in the final 5 minutes and loses to Butler. DamnNot exactly inspiring me to reverse my decision to cut the cord after football season.
OSU blows a 15 point lead in the final 5 minutes and loses to Butler. DamnSounds like they couldn't handle the press, which isn't surprising because they have no guards
Somehow Minnesota win over Alabama might be the new Big Ten low pointthe sporting world was robbed of one of the most interesting game in recent memory due to that tournaments tv scheduling. just awful.
Oh yeah, great win by Michigan State. Dominant.The stupidty of staging a one time, premier tournament on the west coast. You get what you hoped for, MSU-UNC and Duke-Florida championships...and have them play at 8:30 and 10:30 on the east coast on Sunday at the end of a long weekend.
What's with all these late games?
Maryland can't beat a zone defense.Syracuse, so far, isn't defending up to their normal standards, and people are sleeping on the Terps. I'd slot them as the 4th best team in the conference behind MSU, Purdue and maybe Minnesota. Hell, after that Alabama fiasco I'd buy an argument for Maryland in 3rd.
Michigan might have a chance against North Carolina, since they finally thoroughly dominated an inferior team in UC Riverside, while North Carolina played badly against Sparty. We'll see.MSU overwhelmed them inside with depth (which they can do to pretty much anyone this year), and forced UNC to be a 3 point shooting team, and the Heels wound up shooting 1-18 from the perimeter. If you aren't going to make threes against MSU, you are toast this year, too much inside, but they don't have the shooters I trust to get into that kind of game with any regularity. Duke shot 40% from 3, and made 9 more FTs.
I think the Big Ten goes 6-8 overall with tonight's games going as predicted (though I thought Wisconsin - Virginia might be slightly higher-scoring)..... The only road wins I see are Illinois over Wake Forest, Duke over Indiana, and Florida State over Rutgers.
MONDAYBased on ELA's picks we should have been 3-4 at this point. Instead we are a dismal 1-6 because all of ELA's predicted B1G losers lost along with Maryland (by 2 at Cuse) and Northwestern (by 1 at GaTech).
Maryland at Syracuse
Wisconsin at Virginia
TUESDAY
Florida State at Rutgers
Northwestern at Georgia Tech
Louisville at Purdue
Illinois at Wake Forest
Iowa at Virginia Tech
WEDNESDAY
Penn State at NC State
Clemson at Ohio State
Michigan at North Carolina
Miami at Minnesota
Boston College at Nebraska
Duke at Indiana
THURSDAY
Notre Dame at Michigan State
ACC 8-6
Big Ten isn't looking the best early in preconf. I figured 7 bid league with chance for 8. 5 may be pushing it.Wisconsin is really behind right now. The whole class that should be juniors has disappointed. They're 327th in experience on KenPom. I think UW will round into form, but the growing pains won't be fun.
I know Wisc vs Tony Bennett is just asking for ugliness, but 37 points for the game?
Worst part is a bunch of the games weren't even close with Big Ten getting housed. Really thought IL would pull it off at Wake, sucks the refs did them no favors.
Big Ten isn't looking the best early in preconf. I figured 7 bid league with chance for 8. 5 may be pushing it.Michigan made it look less terrible at the end, and I didn't expect Nebraska to win...so I guess we got that.
I know Wisc vs Tony Bennett is just asking for ugliness, but 37 points for the game?
Worst part is a bunch of the games weren't even close with Big Ten getting housed. Really thought IL would pull it off at Wake, sucks the refs did them no favors.
Wisconsin is really behind right now. The whole class that should be juniors has disappointed. They're 327th in experience on KenPom. I think UW will round into form, but the growing pains won't be fun.Well lucky for Wisconsin, the conference looks weak enough that they should be able to keep their 4th or better streak going. I think in a normal year that might be in danger.
Wisconsin is really behind right now. The whole class that should be juniors has disappointed. They're 327th in experience on KenPom. I think UW will round into form, but the growing pains won't be fun.I'm still not sold on what UW is going to be without Bo Ryan. While everyone was all in on Gard when he was largely continuing Bo's trajectory, every year removed from Bo is Greg's team regarding style, recruiting, and developing players. While the first year and a half looked very good, I consider that an "incomplete" grade given that the 2016-17 starting core was a bunch of upperclassmen that came in and developed under Bo.
I'm still not sold on what UW is going to be without Bo Ryan. While everyone was all in on Gard when he was largely continuing Bo's trajectory, every year removed from Bo is Greg's team regarding style, recruiting, and developing players. While the first year and a half looked very good, I consider that an "incomplete" grade given that the 2016-17 starting core was a bunch of upperclassmen that came in and developed under Bo.The more disappointing players on the team right now were brought in by Bo, with the exception of Happ. The underclassmen are going to make this team what it will be. Some look promising. Others not yet.
Don't get me wrong here. I am *not* saying Greg Gard isn't a good coach. I'm just saying the expectation that they "will round into form" might be based on the hope that Greg is a Bo clone, when I don't think we have enough evidence to say that yet. This year and next will really determine what you have up there in Madison.
The more disappointing players on the team right now were brought in by Bo, with the exception of Happ. The underclassmen are going to make this team what it will be. Some look promising. Others not yet.Yes, but Bo had a history of developing the players on his roster. Now, perhaps these players are somehow different than other players in previous classes, or perhaps Bo's teaching and development was the difference between other players being disappointing or being solid.
I'm still not sold on what UW is going to be without Bo Ryan. While everyone was all in on Gard when he was largely continuing Bo's trajectory, every year removed from Bo is Greg's team regarding style, recruiting, and developing players. While the first year and a half looked very good, I consider that an "incomplete" grade given that the 2016-17 starting core was a bunch of upperclassmen that came in and developed under Bo.I'll address this with a longer post later, but I should clarify, when I say "round into form," I mean be one of the weaker teams since the Bo era started (assuming heath), but good enough to make the tournament with some comfort.
Don't get me wrong here. I am *not* saying Greg Gard isn't a good coach. I'm just saying the expectation that they "will round into form" might be based on the hope that Greg is a Bo clone, when I don't think we have enough evidence to say that yet. This year and next will really determine what you have up there in Madison.
MSU men's basketball looks to have a pretty good team this season.Has to be the deepest team he's ever had. It's amazing how some of the liabilities from last year look so much better in their appropriate roles. Also so pleasantly surprised with Carter and Tillman. Figured Carter might retire after yet another ACL injury, and Tillman seemed primed for an redshirt year.
Yes, but Bo had a history of developing the players on his roster. Now, perhaps these players are somehow different than other players in previous classes, or perhaps Bo's teaching and development was the difference between other players being disappointing or being solid.SO, I have a lot of thoughts.
That's my point. Wisconsin has never been the school that brings in multiple high 4* / 5* recruits every year. They rarely have had "instant impact freshmen" that can come in and take over. They've made their living based upon identifying players that will fit their system and developing them over time. Now Bo isn't there to develop them. Perhaps Gard can be as effective as Bo in developing players. Perhaps he can't.
Or it could be that the type of players/system Bo ran is actually different than what Gard is now trying to do, and maybe just the players are a mismatch or haven't bought in as they were Bo's recruits.
Michigan State has to be the #1 team in the country.Take the names off the jersey, maybe. Duke mental block for MSU is real. We have to hope someone else takes them out for us in the tourney. I'd pick us right now to beat anyone else, but Izzo can't get past K.
They play Duke 5 times, they win 4 of them.
New Lunardi with just 4 teams (MSU, PU, MD, Minny) plus UM in the play in getting in right now.We're not making the tournament.
Can't even really argue with that
Update: Now I'm worried.No doubt. I turned it off. I don't remember the last time I did that. Maybe when Yoder was the coach.
Update: Now I'm worried.Is there ANY chance that OSU's blowout win in Madison says something about the Buckeyes or are we all in agreement that it simply says that Wisconsin is a LOT worse than any of us thought?
Is there ANY chance that OSU's blowout win in Madison says something about the Buckeyes or are we all in agreement that it simply says that Wisconsin is a LOT worse than any of us thought?They try hard and the offense is much more sound conceptually. But they are relying on freshmen and Jaesean Tate is playing the point
How pissed must Barry be now that Bo forced this hire on him?Too soon for that kind of talk.
Wisconsin is very dumb this year.Growing pains.
Some how, some way, UW went up 14 with five minutes to go, relying on a wing who can't shoot and a freshman big who was supposed to redshirt. Then UW almost gave it ALL back, eventually needing a miss with a second left to hold onto the 1-point win.
This year will be stressful.
It's not Big Ten, but Lavar Ball is taking LiAngelo out of school. I guess suspending a player for stealing ish in a foreign country is unfair treatment?Just listened to an interview that Lavar gave on CNN. I kid you not, he essentially just said "Having these kids not play basketball is a worse punishment than being in a jail in China."
:smiley_confused1:
Just listened to an interview that Lavar gave on CNN. I kid you not, he essentially just said "Having these kids not play basketball is a worse punishment than being in a jail in China."I highly doubt UCLA has the best track record when it comes to disciplining its athletes. So Alford is going to make them run extra sprints? That'll learn 'em!
I'm usually not one to rail on someone's intelligence, but how bleepin' stupid do you have to be to believe that?
Fine. It's my impression that China dropped the charges and let the boys return home because they believed that the school would punish them appropriately. Since Lavar is now circumventing that punishment, I say send LiAngelo back to China. Let him serve two years in prison and see if that is a worse punishment than having to sit 15 games.
The kids didn't break school policy, they broke the law.Technically, I believe that they did break school policy as well as the law. That is the reason they are suspended.
MSU learning life on the road in conference is a whole other beast.Someone should tell Izzo that even though it's December, it's a conference game, and it's not the time to teach your best rebounder a lesson by benching him a whole half.
Someone should tell Izzo that even though it's December, it's a conference game, and it's not the time to teach your best rebounder a lesson by benching him a whole half.And now it's a thing. Ugh
I think it is officially time for Wisconsin fans to start to panic.Nah. Not yet.
Also, Florida follows up their loss to FSU with a home loss to Loyola-chicago.
That's pretty bad. Not "Notre Dame home loss to Ball State" bad, but still pretty bad.
They really need to beat Marquette Saturday. That is looming big right now.They do, and I understand that it is important to Wisconsin fans because of rivalry but to ELA's point: Even if the Badgers beat the Golden Eagles, it will not be a high quality win. For one thing it is at home. Beyond that, Marquette is 6-3 without a quality win.
Apparently BOTH Ball brothers (the younger ones) have now signed with an agent.My understanding was that there was a significant question about his eligibility already due to something in the family's deal with a shoe company (might have been Nike but I can't remember for sure). If he wasn't likely to be eligible anyway, then signing with an agent is a non-issue.
I get Liangelo, but why cut off any possibility of LaMelo ever being able to step foot on a college campus?
Correct, his shoe had already launched and there were substantial questions there.It would suck to be a Dad that gets old and his own kids hate him. It's gonna happen.
The bigger question is how a shoe with the name of a 16 year old HS player on it sells
I'm at the point where I truly feel sorry for his kids. The marketing of it has jumped the shark, and any argument that the show he's created is beneficial is gone.
Now that basketball season is concluded, are we ready for a thread on Big Ten baseball?Well, other than naming Fran's replacement?
Well, other than naming Fran's replacement?Get Jeff Long.
He's been here how long now? 7 years? 8 years? I think he's hit his ceiling. An upgrade over Lick, but nowhere near what Iowa hoops was in the 80s and much of the 90s.
It's time to move on, but Barta isn't likely to pull the trigger. TBH, it's time to pull the trigger on the AD more than anything. He's possibly the worst in the P5.
Yeah, I'm panicked. I think Temple is pretty solid, but you need to come up with some dang wins.Don't step off pal. Lots of season left. Improvement is showing.
Well, other than naming Fran's replacement?Everybody is entitled to a bad year once in a while.
He's been here how long now? 7 years? 8 years? I think he's hit his ceiling. An upgrade over Lick, but nowhere near what Iowa hoops was in the 80s and much of the 90s.
It's time to move on, but Barta isn't likely to pull the trigger. TBH, it's time to pull the trigger on the AD more than anything. He's possibly the worst in the P5.
UW laying an egg against Marquette today.Didn't see that coming. I know Marq goes as the 3 shot goes, but man.
Trice and King are injured and out for this game. Can't afford that, but oh well.
Now that basketball season is concluded, are we ready for a thread on Big Ten baseball?yes,
UW laying an egg against Marquette today.Trice will have foot surgery tomorrow and miss 4 weeks at a minimum. Kobe King has a knee problem and is out indefinitely (to me that is code that he is done for the season).
Trice and King are injured and out for this game. Can't afford that, but oh well.
So ASU basketball just left Allen Fieldhouse in Lawrence... with a WIN.Word order matters.
Bobby F*@#ing Hurley.
Trice will have foot surgery tomorrow and miss 4 weeks at a minimum. Kobe King has a knee problem and is out indefinitely (to me that is code that he is done for the season).Update..
I think you might have mixed something up there, unless you really believe that OSU will beat North Carolina but lose to Miami (OH).
It is hard to tell how this season will go and right now we really aren't learning much. As I see it, the next eight games do not give us much opportunity to assess this team:
- v ApSt, 12/16
- v Citadel, 12/19
- v UNC, 12/23 (neutral site in NOLA)
- v Miami (OH), 12/30
- @ Iowa, 1/4
- v MSU, 1/7
- v UMD, 1/11
- @ RU, 1/14
As I see it, the Buckeyes should win 1-3, 5, and 8 even if they aren't very good. Losing one of those would raise alarms but winning all of them proves basically nothing. Similarly, the Buckeyes should lose 4, 6, and 7 even if they are pretty good.
Update..Medical redshirt for King in what is looking like a lost season may be a blessing in disguise down the road. Not that you ever want to see a kid hurt.
Both are done for the season.
I think you might have mixed something up there, unless you really believe that OSU will beat North Carolina but lose to Miami (OH).Yep, I flip/flopped #3 and #4. My bad.
Second, I learned a loooooooooong long time ago that you don't look ahead on a schedule and start planning for March in December. There will be games you win that you don't expect and games you lose that make you need to run out an buy a new universal remote and 50" flatscreen.
MSU closed strong to win going away, but that was a 5 point game with about 12 to go.Just interested as I don't get much time to watch teams other than Purdue...
Perimeter defense is still a mess, even though the interior defense is historically good. I think I saw they've now held four opponents to below 25% shooting on 2s, and no other team in the nation has done it more than once. But Southern Utah was like 11-21 from 3 at one point. And it wasn't one of those games where they were just hitting bad shots, they were good looks.
Eventually MSU just sold out on running them off the line and leaving their bigs on islands to block shots. They did. But they can't trust them to do that against better teams.
Granted the way the Big Ten looks, I'm not sure how many good teams they'll play. Purdue might be it? Minnesota, Maryland and Michigan look like tourney teams, but not top 25 type teams.
Yep, I flip/flopped #3 and #4. My bad.Still probably 2 weeks away from finalizing tiers, but looking at the composite rankings, MSU is #2 and Purdue is #6, then you drop all the way to Maryland at #35.
I get what you are saying about looking ahead. I'm definitely not planning on a tournament appearance or buying a new TV, just trying to get an idea of where the team is and what they need to do.
Louisville appealing their sanctions (https://sports.yahoo.com/louisville-meets-ncaa-appeal-basketball-sanctions-182711547--ncaab.html) from the hooker scandal. Just when you think it'd be time to try to maintain a VERY low profile, they're trying to poke the bear.They see almost everyone else getting off light - or getting off completely (UNC) - and probably think why not try?
UW with another critical game tonight against Western Kentucky.Both teams shot real well, but UW holds on with a weird call. Lotta swings. This is gonna be a weird one this year.
Western Kentucky beat Purdue so they are no slouch. We'll see what the kiddies are made of tonight.
Both teams shot real well, but UW holds on with a weird call. Lotta swings. This is gonna be a weird one this year.https://www.barstoolsports.com/barstoolu/we-witnessed-one-of-the-worst-calls-in-college-basketball-to-end-the-wisconsinwku-game/?_branch_match_id=402873909664798863
Still probably 2 weeks away from finalizing tiers, but looking at the composite rankings, MSU is #2 and Purdue is #6, then you drop all the way to Maryland at #35.I think those bottom five just got even harder to assess. Iowa is already weird, best of the group in KenPom, worst in composite. RU and IU were the next two worst in the composite but now suddenly have wins over ranked teams. For now, I'd say all of them in one tier then see how it works out.
KenPom is pretty similar with MSU #2, Purdue #8, then down to Maryland at #37. Maybe a blank 2nd tier, like we had a blank 5th tier above Rutgers a couple years ago?Then not sure how to put the bottom 5. They all seem pretty similar.
- MSU, Purdue
- -
- Maryland, Minnesota, OSU, PSU, UM
- UW, NW
- ?
- ?
Composite has: #84 Nebraska; #89 Illinois; #92 Rutgers; #108 Indiana; #129 Iowa
KenPom: #81 Iowa; #82 Indiana; #90 Nebraska; #98 Illinois; #106 Rutgers
I was quite busy this weekend but noticed some scores that I found interesting:I hope these are signs that things are improving!
- Rutgers took out a ranked Seton Hall team
- Indiana took out a ranked ND team
- Nebraska nearly upset Kansas
heartbreaking loss for Nebraska ..... oh so closeI still don't like the lack of movement without the ball by our coaches offense.... I think that is the reason UNL gets close, but it doesn't translate into continued good play or consistent play. I'm not sold on UNL improving until they actually put together multiple games where they team performs well.
I think those bottom five just got even harder to assess. Iowa is already weird, best of the group in KenPom, worst in composite. RU and IU were the next two worst in the composite but now suddenly have wins over ranked teams. For now, I'd say all of them in one tier then see how it works out.Makes sense to me, then sort it out. I don't think I'd PICK Wisconsin or Northwestern on the road over any of them right now, so that feels right.
Team | noAway | noAway | noAway | noAway | noHome | noHome | noHome | noHome | RR-W | RR-L | miss-W | miss-L | Proj-W | Proj-L | RR% | Proj% | Diff | +Var | -Var | Var | Conf-W | Conf-L |
MSU | M | UNL | PSU | PU | IOWA | MN | NU | tOSU | 25 | 1 | 7 | 1 | 18 | 0 | 0.962 | 1.000 | 0.038 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 18 | - |
Purdue | UNL | NU | tOSU | PSU | ILL | IU | IOWA | MSU | 25 | 1 | 8 | 0 | 17 | 1 | 0.962 | 0.944 | (0.017) | 0 | 0 | 0 | 17 | 1 |
tOSU | MSU | UMD | UNL | ILL | UW | NU | MN | PU | 16 | 10 | 5 | 3 | 11 | 7 | 0.615 | 0.611 | (0.004) | 1 | 0 | 1 | 12 | 6 |
PSU | M | MN | RU | UW | ILL | IU | MSU | PU | 16 | 10 | 3 | 5 | 13 | 5 | 0.615 | 0.722 | 0.107 | 0 | (1) | (1) | 12 | 6 |
UMD | IOWA | MN | RU | UW | ILL | IU | UNL | tOSU | 16 | 10 | 6 | 2 | 10 | 8 | 0.615 | 0.556 | (0.060) | 0 | 0 | 0 | 10 | 8 |
M | ILL | IU | MN | RU | MSU | UNL | PSU | UW | 16 | 10 | 6 | 2 | 10 | 8 | 0.615 | 0.556 | (0.060) | 0 | 0 | 0 | 10 | 8 |
Minny | ILL | MSU | tOSU | RU | UMD | M | PSU | UW | 16 | 10 | 6 | 2 | 10 | 8 | 0.615 | 0.556 | (0.060) | 0 | (1) | (1) | 9 | 9 |
NU | ILL | MSU | UNL | tOSU | IU | IOWA | PU | RU | 11 | 15 | 3 | 5 | 8 | 10 | 0.423 | 0.444 | 0.021 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 8 | 10 |
UW | IU | M | MN | tOSU | IOWA | UMD | PSU | RU | 11 | 15 | 4 | 4 | 7 | 11 | 0.423 | 0.389 | (0.034) | 1 | (1) | 0 | 7 | 11 |
UNL | IU | IOWA | UMD | M | MSU | NU | tOSU | PU | 6 | 20 | 1 | 7 | 5 | 13 | 0.231 | 0.278 | 0.047 | 1 | 0 | 1 | 6 | 12 |
RU | IU | IOWA | NU | UW | UMD | M | MN | PSU | 6 | 20 | 0 | 8 | 6 | 12 | 0.231 | 0.333 | 0.103 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 6 | 12 |
ILL | IOWA | UMD | PSU | PU | M | MN | NU | tOSU | 6 | 20 | 1 | 7 | 5 | 13 | 0.231 | 0.278 | 0.047 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 5 | 13 |
IU | UMD | NU | PSU | PU | M | UNL | RU | UW | 6 | 20 | 3 | 5 | 3 | 15 | 0.231 | 0.167 | (0.064) | 0 | 0 | 0 | 3 | 15 |
Iowa | MSU | NU | PU | UW | IL | UMD | UNL | RU | 6 | 20 | 3 | 5 | 3 | 15 | 0.231 | 0.167 | (0.064) | 0 | 0 | 0 | 3 | 15 |
Eden Ewing kicked off the Purdue team for "violation of team rules". He was a Juco transfer who joined this past offseason but hadn't really seen much time on the floor except in mop-up duty.Did not see that one coming... I have to think it was beyond just "puff puff", as I haven't seen Painter toss a kid for a first offense on that one.
Not sure if this is a "puff puff" situation or grades (finals were just completed last week). May never find out.
Some KenPom power rankings about a third of the way through the season:Looking at the conference as a whole:
1. MSU (2)
2. Purdue (5)
3. Michigan (33)
4. Maryland (34)
5. PSU (41)
6. Minnesota (42)
7. OSU (45)
8. Northwestern (54)
9. Wisconsin (68)
10. Iowa (73)
11. Indiana (87)
12. Nebraska (90)
13. Illinois (95)
14. Rutgers (97)
Team | noAway | noAway | noAway | noAway | noHome | noHome | noHome | noHome | RR-W | RR-L | miss-W | miss-L | Proj-W | Proj-L | RR% | Proj% | Diff | +Var | -Var | Var | Conf-W | Conf-L | OOC-W | OOC-L | ProjT-W | ProjT-L |
MSU | M | UNL | PSU | PU | IOWA | MN | NU | tOSU | 25 | 1 | 7 | 1 | 18 | 0 | 0.962 | 1.000 | 0.038 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 18 | - | 12 | 1 | 30 | 1 |
Purdue | UNL | NU | tOSU | PSU | ILL | IU | IOWA | MSU | 25 | 1 | 8 | 0 | 17 | 1 | 0.962 | 0.944 | (0.017) | 0 | 0 | 0 | 17 | 1 | 11 | 2 | 28 | 3 |
tOSU | MSU | UMD | UNL | ILL | UW | NU | MN | PU | 16 | 10 | 5 | 3 | 11 | 7 | 0.615 | 0.611 | (0.004) | 1 | 0 | 1 | 12 | 6 | 9 | 4 | 21 | 10 |
PSU | M | MN | RU | UW | ILL | IU | MSU | PU | 16 | 10 | 3 | 5 | 13 | 5 | 0.615 | 0.722 | 0.107 | 0 | (1) | (1) | 12 | 6 | 10 | 3 | 22 | 9 |
UMD | IOWA | MN | RU | UW | ILL | IU | UNL | tOSU | 16 | 10 | 6 | 2 | 10 | 8 | 0.615 | 0.556 | (0.060) | 0 | 0 | 0 | 10 | 8 | 11 | 2 | 21 | 10 |
M | ILL | IU | MN | RU | MSU | UNL | PSU | UW | 16 | 10 | 6 | 2 | 10 | 8 | 0.615 | 0.556 | (0.060) | 0 | 0 | 0 | 10 | 8 | 11 | 2 | 21 | 10 |
Minny | ILL | MSU | tOSU | RU | UMD | M | PSU | UW | 16 | 10 | 6 | 2 | 10 | 8 | 0.615 | 0.556 | (0.060) | 0 | (1) | (1) | 9 | 9 | 11 | 2 | 20 | 11 |
NU | ILL | MSU | UNL | tOSU | IU | IOWA | PU | RU | 11 | 15 | 3 | 5 | 8 | 10 | 0.423 | 0.444 | 0.021 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 8 | 10 | 9 | 4 | 17 | 14 |
UW | IU | M | MN | tOSU | IOWA | UMD | PSU | RU | 11 | 15 | 4 | 4 | 7 | 11 | 0.423 | 0.389 | (0.034) | 1 | (1) | 0 | 7 | 11 | 7 | 6 | 14 | 17 |
UNL | IU | IOWA | UMD | M | MSU | NU | tOSU | PU | 6 | 20 | 1 | 7 | 5 | 13 | 0.231 | 0.278 | 0.047 | 1 | 0 | 1 | 6 | 12 | 9 | 4 | 15 | 16 |
RU | IU | IOWA | NU | UW | UMD | M | MN | PSU | 6 | 20 | 0 | 8 | 6 | 12 | 0.231 | 0.333 | 0.103 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 6 | 12 | 10 | 3 | 16 | 15 |
ILL | IOWA | UMD | PSU | PU | M | MN | NU | tOSU | 6 | 20 | 1 | 7 | 5 | 13 | 0.231 | 0.278 | 0.047 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 5 | 13 | 10 | 3 | 15 | 16 |
IU | UMD | NU | PSU | PU | M | UNL | RU | UW | 6 | 20 | 3 | 5 | 3 | 15 | 0.231 | 0.167 | (0.064) | 0 | 0 | 0 | 3 | 15 | 7 | 5 | 10 | 20 |
Iowa | MSU | NU | PU | UW | IL | UMD | UNL | RU | 6 | 20 | 3 | 5 | 3 | 15 | 0.231 | 0.167 | (0.064) | 0 | 0 | 0 | 3 | 15 | 9 | 4 | 12 | 19 |
1. | Duke | |
2. | Villanova | |
3. | MICHIGAN STATE | |
4. | PURDUE | |
5. | Kansas | |
6. | North Carolina | |
7. | Arizona State | |
8. | Xavier | |
9. | Virginia | |
10. | Oklahoma | |
11. | West Virginia | |
12. | Arkansas | |
13. | Texas Tech | |
14. | Texas A&M | |
15. | Arizona | |
16. | Wichita State | |
17. | TCU | |
18. | Clemson | |
19. | Gonzaga | |
20. | Seton Hall | |
21. | Tennessee | |
22. | Miami | |
23. | Cincinnati | |
24. | Kentucky | |
25. | Florida State | |
- | ||
33. | Maryland | |
34. | Michigan | |
39. | Ohio State | |
45. | Minnesota | |
60. | Penn State | |
65. | Northwestern | |
77. | Illinois | |
81. | Wisconsin | |
85. | Nebraska | |
97. | Iowa | |
101. | Indiana | |
127. | Rutgers |
With conference play beginning in earnest, probably have enough data to begin posting the weekly composite computer poll, 46 rankings right nowThis mostly lines up with our current tiers but some adjustments will undoubtedly be needed. I figure we'll hold through this week and weekend then look at it on Monday.
1. Duke 2. Villanova 3. MICHIGAN STATE 4. PURDUE 5. Kansas 6. North Carolina 7. Arizona State 8. Xavier 9. Virginia 10. Oklahoma 11. West Virginia 12. Arkansas 13. Texas Tech 14. Texas A&M 15. Arizona 16. Wichita State 17. TCU 18. Clemson 19. Gonzaga 20. Seton Hall 21. Tennessee 22. Miami 23. Cincinnati 24. Kentucky 25. Florida State - 33. Maryland 34. Michigan 39. Ohio State 45. Minnesota 60. Penn State 65. Northwestern 77. Illinois 81. Wisconsin 85. Nebraska 97. Iowa 101. Indiana 127. Rutgers
This mostly lines up with our current tiers but some adjustments will undoubtedly be needed. I figure we'll hold through this week and weekend then look at it on Monday.Looks like Purdue and Michigan St are elite, while everyone else is extra mediocre.
Current tiers (with +/- upsets):
- MSU, PU
- blank
- tOSU +1, UMD, M, PSU -1, MN -1
- NU, UW
- UNL +1, RU, ILL, IU, IA
I know you're watching BadgeI saw the start and the end. I was watching a special on RUSH, how 2112 and Moving Pictures propelled them into a super machine and how the records came together. Anyway..
Northwestern in some real trouble now too. 15 point loss to Nebraska at home?NU is missing McIntosh and will be for some time (2 weeks??). The good news for him and them is that there is no structural damage in the knee. Missing him really hurts NU though.
I'm still not sure what to think of this years UNL team. Over the last couple of years, each time I feel like they are turning a corner, they take a step back. This year's team seems to be taking small steps towards that corner without major glitches. I'm hopeful, but I still can't trust.They certainly feel more dangerous than they have in years past... I'm not sure they're bottom-tier. But as you say, it'll probably take a few weeks of conference play before we can be sure.
I was just looking at the Badgers' schedule for the next month and I found:
01/05 @Rutgers
01/09 @Nebraska
01/16 @Purdue
01/19 Illinois
01/23 @Iowa
01/26 @Michigan State
01/29 Nebraska
That's a whole lot of "@" in one month.
NU is missing McIntosh and will be for some time (2 weeks??). The good news for him and them is that there is no structural damage in the knee. Missing him really hurts NU though.
I was just looking at the Badgers' schedule for the next month and I found:How does this impact Wisconsin's chances to improve their way into continuing their NCAA streak?
01/05 @Rutgers
01/09 @Nebraska
01/16 @Purdue
01/19 Illinois
01/23 @Iowa
01/26 @Michigan State
01/29 Nebraska
That's a whole lot of "@" in one month.
The problem is that Wisconsin has absolutely no good OOC wins. Their best win is what?......Western Kentucky?That's their best win*, yes.
I'm still not sure what to think of this years UNL team. Over the last couple of years, each time I feel like they are turning a corner, they take a step back. This year's team seems to be taking small steps towards that corner without major glitches. I'm hopeful, but I still can't trust.I haven't even been hopeful the past couple seasons
The problem is that Wisconsin has absolutely no good OOC wins. Their best win is what?......Western Kentucky? Even if they manage to get two upset wins over MSU and Purdue at home, that puts them at 16-15 with only 3 top 50 wins (assuming they beat Michigan at home and Michigan maintains their current ranking level). They would probably still need at least 3 more wins in the BTT to even get on the bubble.In the tier system we currently project them to finish 14-17 so you are right, wins over PU and MSU at home would only get them to 16-15 and that probably isn't enough without winning the BTT.
That's a pretty tall order.
Not sure if this counts as college or pro, or if we already have a Lithuanian basketball thread, but ESPN sent Jeff Goodman to Lithuania to cover the Ball brothers' first PRACTICE.Even TMZ thinks ESPN is losing credibility..... jeeze..
I think in the end he may end up costing them money, because the youngest (who was a the best of the 3 IIRC) may now never see the NBA, but for now Lavar's "marketing" seems to be paying off.
K Jr has the game in hand with the refs in his corner, as per usual.Our second team would beat Maryland by 15
Key fouls against the right players, and the "art of the flop" in year 2 of the dookie handbook, has clinched it by the end of the first half.
Our second team would beat Maryland by 15With the refs on your side, there's no doubt.
With the refs on your side, there's no doubt.Your boys are getting worked. Just waving the white flag.
Your boys are getting worked. Just waving the white flag.K Jr has done enough waiving of those white and black shirts.
https://twitter.com/BarstoolBigCat/status/948738891267354629If I was little Ricky I wouldn't let my dad show up. Not a good look.
Thank GOD for the refs in that 30 point win. Don't know how we'd do it without them.You know it. That was the catalyst that started it all. It was a very competitive game until they stepped in. Good job Tom Krzyzeski.
We'll update tiers on Monday but as of now I'm thinking that Nebraska should move up one and perhaps Rutgers down one. Thoughts?Yeah, Knights really fell back after the first 5 or so weeks of the year.
With conference play beginning in earnest, probably have enough data to begin posting the weekly composite computer poll, 46 rankings right nowYou posted this last week on Tuesday, January 2. I hope it the update will be available for discussion of tiers on Monday, January 8.
3. MICHIGAN STATE 4. PURDUE 33. Maryland 34. Michigan 39. Ohio State 45. Minnesota 60. Penn State 65. Northwestern 77. Illinois 81. Wisconsin 85. Nebraska 97. Iowa 101. Indiana 127. Rutgers
We'll update tiers on Monday but as of now I'm thinking that Nebraska should move up one and perhaps Rutgers down one. Thoughts?don't fall for it. UNL will show their true colors soon enough
don't fall for it. UNL will show their true colors soon enoughThey sure look good so far. We had projected them to be 0-3 at this point but they beat MN at home and NU on the road to get to 2-1. We'll see.
Continuing on with what ELA just posted, MSU's game this afternoon is probably their third toughest B1G game this year and they are favored by 8.Third? I would say second behind only Purdue at home. No trips to WAL or AA.
Also, Fran's done after this year right? Two years ago they were loaded, and gagged it away down the stretch. Last year was supposed to be a rebuild year, but you expected to see some sort of step up this year, particularly in a down Big Ten. Instead this might be his worst team in Iowa City.Based on his outburst last night, I wonder if he should walk away now before he creates his own health issues.
Based on his outburst last night, I wonder if he should walk away now before he creates his own health issues.No doubt.
Iowa definitely did get the short end of the officiating last night, but wow. I thought he might die or something.
Hang in there, Coach M.!
Date | Won | @/v | Lost |
2-Dec | tOSU | @ | UW |
4-Dec | UW | @ | PSU |
5-Dec | UNL | v | MN |
2-Jan | UNL | @ | NU |
6-Jan | IU | @ | MN |
7-Jan | tOSU | v | MSU |
Date | Won | @/v | Lost |
4-Dec | UW | @ | PSU |
2-Jan | UNL | @ | NU |
6-Jan | IU | @ | MN |
Team | noAway | noAway | noAway | noAway | noHome | noHome | noHome | noHome | RR-W | RR-L | miss-W | miss-L | Proj-W | Proj-L | RR% | Proj% | Diff | +Var | -Var | Var | Conf-W | Conf-L | OOC-W | OOC-L | ProjT-W | ProjT-L |
MSU | M | UNL | PSU | PU | IOWA | MN | NU | tOSU | 24 | 2 | 7 | 1 | 17 | 1 | 0.923 | 0.944 | 0.021 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 17 | 1 | 12 | 1 | 29 | 2 |
Purdue | UNL | NU | tOSU | PSU | ILL | IU | IOWA | MSU | 24 | 2 | 7 | 1 | 17 | 1 | 0.923 | 0.944 | 0.021 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 17 | 1 | 11 | 2 | 28 | 3 |
tOSU | MSU | UMD | UNL | ILL | UW | NU | MN | PU | 20 | 6 | 6 | 2 | 14 | 4 | 0.769 | 0.778 | 0.009 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 14 | 4 | 9 | 4 | 23 | 8 |
PSU | M | MN | RU | UW | ILL | IU | MSU | PU | 15 | 11 | 3 | 5 | 12 | 6 | 0.577 | 0.667 | 0.090 | 0 | (1) | (1) | 11 | 7 | 10 | 3 | 21 | 10 |
UMD | IOWA | MN | RU | UW | ILL | IU | UNL | tOSU | 15 | 11 | 6 | 2 | 9 | 9 | 0.577 | 0.500 | (0.077) | 0 | 0 | 0 | 9 | 9 | 11 | 2 | 20 | 11 |
M | ILL | IU | MN | RU | MSU | UNL | PSU | UW | 15 | 11 | 6 | 2 | 9 | 9 | 0.577 | 0.500 | (0.077) | 0 | 0 | 0 | 9 | 9 | 11 | 2 | 20 | 11 |
Minny | ILL | MSU | tOSU | RU | UMD | M | PSU | UW | 15 | 11 | 6 | 2 | 9 | 9 | 0.577 | 0.500 | (0.077) | 0 | (1) | (1) | 8 | 10 | 11 | 2 | 19 | 12 |
NU | ILL | MSU | UNL | tOSU | IU | IOWA | PU | RU | 10 | 16 | 3 | 5 | 7 | 11 | 0.385 | 0.389 | 0.004 | 0 | (1) | (1) | 6 | 12 | 9 | 4 | 15 | 16 |
UW | IU | M | MN | tOSU | IOWA | UMD | PSU | RU | 10 | 16 | 4 | 4 | 6 | 12 | 0.385 | 0.333 | (0.051) | 1 | 0 | 1 | 7 | 11 | 7 | 6 | 14 | 17 |
UNL | IU | IOWA | UMD | M | MSU | NU | tOSU | PU | 10 | 16 | 1 | 7 | 9 | 9 | 0.385 | 0.500 | 0.115 | 1 | 0 | 1 | 10 | 8 | 9 | 4 | 19 | 12 |
RU | IU | IOWA | NU | UW | UMD | M | MN | PSU | 6 | 20 | 0 | 8 | 6 | 12 | 0.231 | 0.333 | 0.103 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 6 | 12 | 10 | 3 | 16 | 15 |
ILL | IOWA | UMD | PSU | PU | M | MN | NU | tOSU | 6 | 20 | 1 | 7 | 5 | 13 | 0.231 | 0.278 | 0.047 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 5 | 13 | 10 | 3 | 15 | 16 |
IU | UMD | NU | PSU | PU | M | UNL | RU | UW | 6 | 20 | 3 | 5 | 3 | 15 | 0.231 | 0.167 | (0.064) | 1 | 0 | 1 | 4 | 14 | 7 | 5 | 11 | 19 |
Iowa | MSU | NU | PU | UW | IL | UMD | UNL | RU | 6 | 20 | 3 | 5 | 3 | 15 | 0.231 | 0.167 | (0.064) | 0 | 0 | 0 | 3 | 15 | 9 | 4 | 12 | 19 |
"That Purdue at Michigan game along with a couple others could effectively eliminate all but PU, MSU, and tOSU from the B1G title race this week. " (my quote function is not working)I get what you are saying and I don't completely disagree but if (big IF) the Boilermakers, Spartans, and Buckeyes each go 2-0 this week, there will be an enormous gap between them and #4.
Waaaaaay to early to be saying this. Heck, just last year on February 10th, Wisconsin had a 2 game lead on everybody and everybody was tripping over themselves to crown them.......and then they lost 5 of their last 7.
It seems that the conference (at least for scheduling purposes) considers Friday to be part of the weekend.I think Friday goes either way. MSU I believe at one point has a Friday-Sunday turnaround
1. | Villanova (2) | |
2. | Virginia (9) | |
3. | PURDUE (4) | |
4. | Duke (1) | |
5. | MICHIGAN STATE (3) | |
6. | Texas Tech (13) | |
7. | West Virginia (11) | |
8. | Kansas (5) | |
9. | North Carolina (6) | |
10. | Oklahoma (10) | |
11. | Wichita State (16) | |
12. | Xavier (8) | |
13. | Arizona State (7) | |
14. | Clemson (18) | |
15. | Cincinnati (23) | |
16. | Seton Hall (20) | |
17. | Gonzaga (19) | |
18. | TCU (17) | |
19. | Auburn (-) | |
20. | Tennessee (21) | |
21. | Creighton (-) | |
22. | Arizona (15) | |
23. | Arkansas (12) | |
24. | Kentucky (24) | |
25. | Florida State (25) | |
- | ||
27. | Ohio State (39) | |
31. | Michigan (34) | |
36. | Maryland (33) | |
48. | Minnesota (45) | |
58. | Penn State (60) | |
75. | Nebraska (85) | |
81. | Northwestern (65) | |
83. | Illinois (77) | |
84. | Wisconsin (81) | |
96. | Indiana (101) | |
109. | Iowa (97) | |
121. | Rutgers (127) |
Have to assume that puts Purdue in the driver's seat.Well, they do travel to E. Lansing.
Well, they do travel to E. Lansing.Yeah but they are the only one of the four tourney looking teams who have proven anything on the road.
Team | noAway | noAway | noAway | noAway | noHome | noHome | noHome | noHome | RR-W | RR-L | miss-W | miss-L | Proj-W | Proj-L | RR% | Proj% | Diff |
UNL | IU | IOWA | UMD | M | MSU | NU | tOSU | PU | 10 | 16 | 1 | 7 | 9 | 9 | 0.385 | 0.500 | 0.115 |
RU | IU | IOWA | NU | UW | UMD | M | MN | PSU | 6 | 20 | 0 | 8 | 6 | 12 | 0.231 | 0.333 | 0.103 |
PSU | M | MN | RU | UW | ILL | IU | MSU | PU | 15 | 11 | 3 | 5 | 12 | 6 | 0.577 | 0.667 | 0.090 |
ILL | IOWA | UMD | PSU | PU | M | MN | NU | tOSU | 6 | 20 | 1 | 7 | 5 | 13 | 0.231 | 0.278 | 0.047 |
MSU | M | UNL | PSU | PU | IOWA | MN | NU | tOSU | 24 | 2 | 7 | 1 | 17 | 1 | 0.923 | 0.944 | 0.021 |
Purdue | UNL | NU | tOSU | PSU | ILL | IU | IOWA | MSU | 24 | 2 | 7 | 1 | 17 | 1 | 0.923 | 0.944 | 0.021 |
tOSU | MSU | UMD | UNL | ILL | UW | NU | MN | PU | 20 | 6 | 6 | 2 | 14 | 4 | 0.769 | 0.778 | 0.009 |
NU | ILL | MSU | UNL | tOSU | IU | IOWA | PU | RU | 10 | 16 | 3 | 5 | 7 | 11 | 0.385 | 0.389 | 0.004 |
UW | IU | M | MN | tOSU | IOWA | UMD | PSU | RU | 10 | 16 | 4 | 4 | 6 | 12 | 0.385 | 0.333 | (0.051) |
IU | UMD | NU | PSU | PU | M | UNL | RU | UW | 6 | 20 | 3 | 5 | 3 | 15 | 0.231 | 0.167 | (0.064) |
Iowa | MSU | NU | PU | UW | IL | UMD | UNL | RU | 6 | 20 | 3 | 5 | 3 | 15 | 0.231 | 0.167 | (0.064) |
UMD | IOWA | MN | RU | UW | ILL | IU | UNL | tOSU | 15 | 11 | 6 | 2 | 9 | 9 | 0.577 | 0.500 | (0.077) |
M | ILL | IU | MN | RU | MSU | UNL | PSU | UW | 15 | 11 | 6 | 2 | 9 | 9 | 0.577 | 0.500 | (0.077) |
Minny | ILL | MSU | tOSU | RU | UMD | M | PSU | UW | 15 | 11 | 6 | 2 | 9 | 9 | 0.577 | 0.500 | (0.077) |
My vote would be for moving Indiana up. A young team, figuring out a new coach. I think even without the +2 already, they would be a likely candidate to markedly improve as the season progresses, and as a forward looking tool, that's the move that makes more sense to me.Also, you *know* Indiana has talented players. They're year-in-year-out classes are ranked in the top 3-4 of the B1G according to 247.
Date | Won | @/v | Lost |
4-Dec | UW | @ | PSU |
2-Jan | UNL | @ | NU |
6-Jan | IU | @ | MN |
Team | noAway | noAway | noAway | noAway | noHome | noHome | noHome | noHome | RR-W | RR-L | miss-W | miss-L | Proj-W | Proj-L | RR% | Proj% | Diff | +Var | -Var | Var | Conf-W | Conf-L | OOC-W | OOC-L | ProjT-W | ProjT-L |
MSU | M | UNL | PSU | PU | IOWA | MN | NU | tOSU | 24 | 2 | 7 | 1 | 17 | 1 | 0.923 | 0.944 | 0.021 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 17 | 1 | 12 | 1 | 29 | 2 |
Purdue | UNL | NU | tOSU | PSU | ILL | IU | IOWA | MSU | 24 | 2 | 7 | 1 | 17 | 1 | 0.923 | 0.944 | 0.021 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 17 | 1 | 11 | 2 | 28 | 3 |
tOSU | MSU | UMD | UNL | ILL | UW | NU | MN | PU | 20 | 6 | 6 | 2 | 14 | 4 | 0.769 | 0.778 | 0.009 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 14 | 4 | 9 | 4 | 23 | 8 |
PSU | M | MN | RU | UW | ILL | IU | MSU | PU | 14 | 12 | 3 | 5 | 11 | 7 | 0.538 | 0.611 | 0.073 | 0 | (1) | (1) | 10 | 8 | 10 | 3 | 20 | 11 |
M | ILL | IU | MN | RU | MSU | UNL | PSU | UW | 14 | 12 | 5 | 3 | 9 | 9 | 0.538 | 0.500 | (0.038) | 0 | 0 | 0 | 9 | 9 | 11 | 2 | 20 | 11 |
UMD | IOWA | MN | RU | UW | ILL | IU | UNL | tOSU | 14 | 12 | 6 | 2 | 8 | 10 | 0.538 | 0.444 | (0.094) | 0 | 0 | 0 | 8 | 10 | 11 | 2 | 19 | 12 |
Minny | ILL | MSU | tOSU | RU | UMD | M | PSU | UW | 14 | 12 | 6 | 2 | 8 | 10 | 0.538 | 0.444 | (0.094) | 0 | (1) | (1) | 7 | 11 | 11 | 2 | 18 | 13 |
UNL | IU | IOWA | UMD | M | MSU | NU | tOSU | PU | 10 | 16 | 1 | 7 | 9 | 9 | 0.385 | 0.500 | 0.115 | 1 | 0 | 1 | 10 | 8 | 9 | 4 | 19 | 12 |
UW | IU | M | MN | tOSU | IOWA | UMD | PSU | RU | 10 | 16 | 4 | 4 | 6 | 12 | 0.385 | 0.333 | (0.051) | 1 | 0 | 1 | 7 | 11 | 7 | 6 | 14 | 17 |
IU | UMD | NU | PSU | PU | M | UNL | RU | UW | 10 | 16 | 4 | 4 | 6 | 12 | 0.385 | 0.333 | (0.051) | 1 | 0 | 1 | 7 | 11 | 7 | 5 | 14 | 16 |
NU | ILL | MSU | UNL | tOSU | IU | IOWA | PU | RU | 10 | 16 | 3 | 5 | 7 | 11 | 0.385 | 0.389 | 0.004 | 0 | (1) | (1) | 6 | 12 | 9 | 4 | 15 | 16 |
RU | IU | IOWA | NU | UW | UMD | M | MN | PSU | 6 | 20 | 0 | 8 | 6 | 12 | 0.231 | 0.333 | 0.103 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 6 | 12 | 10 | 3 | 16 | 15 |
ILL | IOWA | UMD | PSU | PU | M | MN | NU | tOSU | 6 | 20 | 1 | 7 | 5 | 13 | 0.231 | 0.278 | 0.047 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 5 | 13 | 10 | 3 | 15 | 16 |
Iowa | MSU | NU | PU | UW | IL | UMD | UNL | RU | 6 | 20 | 3 | 5 | 3 | 15 | 0.231 | 0.167 | (0.064) | 0 | 0 | 0 | 3 | 15 | 9 | 4 | 12 | 19 |
UW's upset of PSU happened when it had two starting guards. It no longer has that and this should be taken into consideration for the tier they are in. I think they belong in the bottom right now, in all honesty. They are playing walk-ons.The front half of UW's schedule is so difficult that it is tough to tell where they should ve. The losses to Rutgers and Nebraska do not look good, but both of those were road games and close losses.
UW's upset of PSU happened when it had two starting guards. It no longer has that and this should be taken into consideration for the tier they are in. I think they belong in the bottom right now, in all honesty. They are playing walk-ons.Where it gets hard for UW is that essentially whether they're in Tier 4 or Tier 5, they'll still remain at +1 variance based on games played to date. It really doesn't matter either way. Their upset of PSU doesn't change no matter where they move, and all their other B1G games to date would be equal for either tier.
Just flipped to BTN. How in the hell is Rutger playing even with MSU? MSU will win since it went to OT, but not expected.No they won't. This is like 2016 all over again, where they looked invincible through December, got to #1. Lost a road game at Iowa and figured road losses happen. Then lost at home to Nebraska, lost at Wisconsin and got bombed at home by Iowa, and they turned it back around at won 10 of 11 plus the conference tourney, but they lost the Big Ten title in those two weeks. They are in a serious offensive funk, and I assume they'll figure it out, but they are really, really bad right now. Jackson has hit some sort of wall, he looks so lost on both ends right now.
They hit GOD Mode against Maryland.That's how they had played basically every game since the Duke game. These last two have been the change.
They aren't 30 points better than Maryland, they just couldn't miss a damn thing.
It's like they get up for Maryland. Just like another school farther South.
I remember a week ago when I thought MSU was clearly the best team in the nation. Halcyon days.Those were good days. Now they don't have a single player I trust offensively.
^^This is what I expected from the game last night so I was shocked to see that MSU needed OT to get it done and then to read here (thank you ELA) that RU lost four guys to fouls in the OT. I'm perplexed and have some questions for the MSU fans who actually watched the game:
- Rutgers at Michigan State: I would not want to be Rutgers this week. I see this as the basketball equivalent of MSU v tOSU in football. Remember what happened to the next team that played Ohio State after their blowout loss in Iowa City? Yeah, I think the same thing is going to happen to the next team to play Michigan State after their blowout loss in Columbus.
What a run by OSU...Aww, looking for a good laugh with someone?
...damn zebras!
O:-)
Illinois choking away a big lead at home against Iowa.Illini hit a really ugly three at the buzzer to force OT.
Just looked at OSUs schedule. Their next seven games have to be about as easy a 7 game conference stretch as you'll see.I was looking at the same thing. Road games can be tougher than expected plus I'm going to the Rutgers game so I probably jinxed that, but the MN game isn't really a road game it is at MSG in NYC.
12-0 is very possible.
Illini hit a really ugly three at the buzzer to force OT.Iowa pulled it out in OT so the Illini are the last winless team in the conference.
Wow!If you're a sports fan, that is a must app.
Wow, what that team gets away with.Which team? I thought it was a great half except all the ticky tac fouls in the paint called against Michigan.
Which team? I thought it was a great half except all the ticky tac fouls in the paint called against Michigan.The fouls, the taunting after dunks...
The fouls, the taunting after dunks...It's a fucking rivalry game. Wagner was posing after every play too. They even talked about it during the broadcast. Your obsession remains adorable.
Refs real timid with the whistle against Dook 2.0.
Dan Dakich actually said "If you were to play one of those games where you take a drink of a beverage every time I say Keita Bates-Diop on a broadcast, you'd get pretty messed up." Then started talking about Harry's Chocolate Shop at Purdue is such a great place...Never confuse an idiot with a drunk.
I think Dakich enjoys imbibing a bit...
:singing:
Izzo got outcoached badly again. Had to figure something out other than Ward or Tillman on Wagner. Refs were calling everything down low. You blew on someone, it was a foul. MSU attacked the basket in the first half, UM didn't. At one point MSU had one 3 point attempt and UM had 11. Beilein recognized that, second half they attacked, and pretty much every time they did they got a basket or a foul, just like MSU was getting in the first half.Good summation. Poorly officiated down low. I thought it was home cooking in the first half but Blue got some calls the second half down low because they attacked the hoop.
The turnovers we're obviously the biggest story. To do that at home is inexcusable.
Good summation. Poorly officiated down low. I thought it was home cooking in the first half but Blue got some calls the second half down low because they attacked the hoop.They were calling everything ticky tack in the paint both ways. Early on, UM never went into the paint. When the 3PA difference is 11-1, the FT difference is always going to be lopsided the other way. When Beilein adjusted UM got the same calls. That's why he's a hell of a coach. Izzos in game "adjustments" today were trash, and Beileins were perfect.
Michigan’s free throw shooting will cost them games this year. They were lucky it did not today.
Can't do anything is isolation - guard or breakdown off dribble. Can't protect the ball.He's had this problem before. Killed the 2006 team too. Neitzels wasn't good yet in the half court. When they couldn't run, they couldn't do anything.
Stop transition, pressure on ball and we turtle. Teams can overcome our defense simply by waiting for turnovers and extra possessions.
Izzo all of a sudden has a real mess on his hands.
Good summation. Poorly officiated down low. I thought it was home cooking in the first half but Blue got some calls the second half down low because they attacked the hoop.As to your last point. I think UM was 13th in the Big Ten in FT shooting, and couldn't miss. Rutgers was last, and shot nearly 90% I think on Wednesday.
Michigan’s free throw shooting will cost them games this year. They were lucky it did not today.
Remember last year Wagner absolutely abused Swanigan, and he at least has some mobility. Yet Tillman, who would have maybe redshirted if Carter was healthy, is supposed to handle that one on one?Jackson is the only option there and he was in foul trouble early, again
Can't do anything is isolation - guard or breakdown off dribble. Can't protect the ball.That's actually encouraging to hear as a Purdue fan... Our defense is absolutely going to force you to beat us with half-court offense. I can foresee a frustrated Bridges jacking up threes with a hand in his face all game.
Stop transition, pressure on ball and we turtle. Teams can overcome our defense simply by waiting for turnovers and extra possessions.
Izzo all of a sudden has a real mess on his hands.
Remember last year Wagner absolutely abused Swanigan, and he at least has some mobility. Yet Tillman, who would have maybe redshirted if Carter was healthy, is supposed to handle that one on one?Neither Haas nor Swanigan were particularly mobile. Mobility was the biggest knock on Swanigan's game. And he was so important to the team last year that he HAD to play poor defense to avoid fouls. Purdue couldn't afford him not being on the court.
Jackson is the only option there and he was in foul trouble early, againMiles would have been a better option. At least he had the athleticism. At least force him to prove he can be a true pure post option.
As to your last point. I think UM was 13th in the Big Ten in FT shooting, and couldn't miss. Rutgers was last, and shot nearly 90% I think on Wednesday.I was really confused by your post until I went back and looked at the team stats. I’m shocked Michigan shot so well from the free throw line. They shot 28-35, only missing 7. Maybe why I had such a negative view is because 6 of the 7 misses were in the last 2:09.
MSUs FT defense is somehow terrible.
I was really confused by your post until I went back and looked at the team stats. I’m shocked Michigan shot so well from the free throw line. They shot 28-35, only missing 7. Maybe why I had such a negative view is because 6 of the 7 misses were in the last 2:09.Yeah I think they made it to like 17-17 before their first miss. They certainly left the door open with their late misses, but MSUs offense couldn't generate anything but jacking up some guarded threes.
They only missed one foul shot up until that point which to your point is remarkable and honestly some bad luck for MSU.
Every time a coach elects not to guard the inbounder they are asking to lose.This.
What an incredible game. I’m not sure if Maryland and Blue both had off games or the defense was stellar. Wild swings in the last 2 minutes and poor foul shooting by Simpson almost cost the boys again. I have no idea why they keep inbounding to him when it’s clearly a fouling situation.Helps when you make like 8 3's in a row.
This.He's certainly stocked the roster if someone comes in next year.
That's why I'm sick of Turgeon. The Maryland fans are livid.
But, with the whole team sick and on antibiotics, missing Jackson's points, rebounds, and defense, and Bender's contributions, I can't help but be proud of them for fighting.
Get 'em now, while they're down this year.
1. | Villanova (1) | |
2. | PURDUE (3) | |
3. | Virginia (2) | |
4. | Duke (4) | |
5. | Texas Tech (6) | |
6. | Oklahoma (10) | |
7. | North Carolina (9) | |
8. | West Virginia (7) | |
9. | Kansas (8) | |
10. | MICHIGAN STATE (5) | |
11. | Wichita State (11) | |
12. | Xavier (12) | |
13. | Gonzaga (17) | |
14. | Auburn (19) | |
15. | Cincinnati (15) | |
16. | Clemson (14) | |
17. | Tennessee (20) | |
18. | OHIO STATE (-) | |
19. | Kentucky (24) | |
20. | MICHIGAN (-) | |
21. | Seton Hall (16) | |
22. | Arizona State (13) | |
23. | Arizona (22) | |
24. | TCU (18) | |
25. | Creighton (21) | |
- | ||
42. | Maryland (36) | |
63. | Penn State (58) | |
64. | Minnesota (48) | |
74. | Nebraska (75) | |
77. | Indiana (96) | |
81. | Northwestern (81) | |
91. | Wisconsin (84) | |
94. | Iowa (109) | |
100. | Illinois (83) | |
132. | Rutgers (121) | |
Date | Won | @/v | Lost |
4-Dec | UW | @ | PSU |
2-Jan | UNL | @ | NU |
6-Jan | IU | @ | MN |
11-Jan | IA | @ | ILL |
13-Jan | M | @ | MSU |
15-Jan | MN | @ | PSU |
Granted no logical change would make UM over MSU in EL not an upset as far as these go, but I think MSU should probably drop down to 2.I wouldn't go that far just yet. I know they appear to be in a funk right now, but I'd give them a week to see if they pull out of it. They certainly have MORE than enough talent to remain tier 1, and I'll trust Izzo as a coach to right the ship until proven otherwise. And honestly until it happens, I don't see them losing on the road to Maryland, PSU, or Minnesota, all of which would be expected if you drop them.
I knew it would be rough for UW tonight, but this thing is UGLY.Well, don't take it that hard. Purdue did the same thing to MN on Saturday, and then they turned around and beat PSU.
Time to look to the spring game, I reckon.
Glad I flipped over just to see the final minute of Nebraska-Illinoisgive up 18 offensive boards to the opponent and still win the game?
I've never been a fan of that type of stat. "This coach has trouble beating ranked teams on the road. Fire him now!"I may have posted this here before. SI did an analysis of home-field/court advantage not too many years ago, and concluded that it is greatest in basketball. The authors surmised that it was because the officials are intimidated by the crowd being so close at hand.
Well, your own stats suggest that EVERY coach has trouble beating top 50 teams on the road. Beilein, Painter, and Izzo are all batting somewhere around 30-36% against ranked teams on the road. Yes, Turgeon is only at ~17% against those similar teams, which isn't great. But that's perhaps better than Crean, who did similarly poorly but with IMHO better overall talent on the roster.
Thing is, beating ranked teams is hard. They're ranked because they're good. Beating them on the road is even harder. Road games in the B1G are brutal even when you're playing unranked teams. Beating a good (ranked or Kenpom top 50) team on their home court is an incredibly difficult task. That's why we say in our tier system that the home team should win every game against their own tier as well as the tier above them. It's only when the team strength disparity rises to two tiers away that we expect a home team to lose to a road team.
Now, maybe Turgeon is underperforming. Maybe he should go. But I hate using that stat [otherwise in a vacuum] to justify it. Or else we'd all be saying Fire Izzo because he's only winning road games against top 50 teams at a 36% rate. I mean, really, Tom Izzo should be above .500 against those teams, right? He's Tom Izzo?!
I've never been a fan of that type of stat. "This coach has trouble beating ranked teams on the road. Fire him now!"This
Well, your own stats suggest that EVERY coach has trouble beating top 50 teams on the road. Beilein, Painter, and Izzo are all batting somewhere around 30-36% against ranked teams on the road. Yes, Turgeon is only at ~17% against those similar teams, which isn't great. But that's perhaps better than Crean, who did similarly poorly but with IMHO better overall talent on the roster.
Thing is, beating ranked teams is hard. They're ranked because they're good. Beating them on the road is even harder. Road games in the B1G are brutal even when you're playing unranked teams. Beating a good (ranked or Kenpom top 50) team on their home court is an incredibly difficult task. That's why we say in our tier system that the home team should win every game against their own tier as well as the tier above them. It's only when the team strength disparity rises to two tiers away that we expect a home team to lose to a road team.
Now, maybe Turgeon is underperforming. Maybe he should go. But I hate using that stat [otherwise in a vacuum] to justify it. Or else we'd all be saying Fire Izzo because he's only winning road games against top 50 teams at a 36% rate. I mean, really, Tom Izzo should be above .500 against those teams, right? He's Tom Izzo?!
I think he is underperforming, given the talent available to him on a yearly basis.I think sometimes talent gives us big eyes.
I think he is underperforming, given the talent available to him on a yearly basis.Exactly. If we were say, Clemson in a typical year, I'd say there's nothing to complain about.
I knew it would be rough for UW tonight, but this thing is UGLY.you sound like a husker fan... =)
Time to look to the spring game, I reckon.
I may have posted this here before. SI did an analysis of home-field/court advantage not too many years ago, and concluded that it is greatest in basketball. The authors surmised that it was because the officials are intimidated by the crowd being so close at hand.Bingo! I've been saying this for years.
Just looked at OSUs schedule. Their next seven games have to be about as easy a 7 game conference stretch as you'll see.I hope I don't jinx this, but it is looking more and more possible.
12-0 is very possible.
We should be ranked every year, or at least make the tournament.I think for most major-conference teams, making the tournament should be the goal every year. It may not always happen--Beilein and Painter, who both have better records against KenPom top 50, have both missed it a few times. But I think that should be the benchmark for a high major, especially one with the history and talent of Maryland.
Not used to seeing so much Buckeye love in the basketball thread.I've been involved in this thread, but it has been very frustrating to be a Buckeye Hoops fan the past few years. I think all of us are elated at this point because before the season most of us thought the Buckeyes would be in the bottom third or so of the conference and that the NIT was a somewhat optimistic goal. Now we are looking at a 7-0 team that is tied with Purdue for first in the conference! Yeah, we are thrilled!
Congrats on the great season so far.
I said a while back, Maryland won't be in it.Looking more and more like Maryland or bust for getting a 5th team in though. I just have a hard time seeing the conference getting only 4.
If they make it, I'd be greatly surprised.
No depth.
I said a while back, Maryland won't be in it.I'm doubtful too, but the recent play of Josh Tomaic is encouraging, and helps fill the hole left by the devastating front-court injuries. It seems like he played more minutes last night alone (25) than he did in all of November and December. And he was solid with 7 points and 5 rebounds. He's not the player that Jackson or Bender are yet, but as time goes on I think they might make it work.
If they make it, I'd be greatly surprised.
No depth.
What is the Top Seven's record vs the Bottom Seven?So far the only top-7 losses to the bottom-7 are:
So far the only top-7 losses to the bottom-7 are:I actually think the first year we did "tiers" it was just a top 6 and a bottom 6. Maybe like 2005 or 2006? Or maybe a top 5 and a bottom 7? That basically everyone was just winning their home games against the group, and there was such a gap between the groups that there were no crossover wins from the bottom half. I think we broke it once late, and I seem to recall it being PSU who did so.
- IU at UW
- UNL at PSU
Note that PU, tOSU, MSU, M, and UMD have NOT lost to a bottom-7 team.
Also noteworthy is that OSU and the fraternal MI twins are the only three schools to be in our top-seven for both Helmets and Hoops, whereas Minnesota, Rutgers and Illinois are the only three to achieve dual bottom-seven status.It feels weird that UW is not in that top 7 club for both, after being there for the past couple of decades.
According to Bleacher Report, here are the Top 10 Teams Built to Dominate March Madness (http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2754597-the-10-college-basketball-teams-best-built-for-march-madness-dominance)...I can't disagree. They really only have one March obstacle to overcome
They basically say that elite defense is essentially a must. But some of the critical things that define teams poised to go to the Final Four or all the way are:
- KenPom Top-20 defensive efficiency (Purdue is 5th)
- At least one multiyear starter in the backcourt (PJ Thompson, Dakota Mathias as guards, Carsen Edwards is a soph and started last year)
- At least one player with a proven ability to catch fire from three-point range (PJ, Dakota, Cline, CEdwards, and VEdwards can all light it up)
- A positive turnover margin (Purdue is +1.8 per game)
- A bunch of quality wins (Sagarin has us 3-0 vs his top 25 and 7-1 vs his top 50)
- At least one lengthy winning streak before the end of January (currently won 14 straight)
Hence why they rated Purdue as their #1.
MSU was #5, BTW.
I can't disagree. They really only have one March obstacle to overcomeOuch!
(https://www.gannett-cdn.com/-mm-/70fe4f3e38df880299b7a43595148e2f3f4830b2/c=0-0-1999-1503&r=x404&c=534x401/local/-/media/2017/11/28/INGroup/LafayetteIN/636475071265140869-LAF-Louisville-at-Purdue-23.jpg)
Looking more and more like Maryland or bust for getting a 5th team in though. I just have a hard time seeing the conference getting only 4.I wouldn't count out Neb. PSU is still the team that I argue hard should be in the mix and hasn't really been close.
Buckeyes remain undefeated in Conference play, tied for first place atop the Big Ten standings.I didn't see the game. The box score was weird, the Bucks only made 4 threes and only shot 10 free throws, but won in a walk
Purdue wasted that on Iowa. They would have run any team in the country out of the gym today.raining 3s on the road
I didn't see the game. The box score was weird, the Bucks only made 4 threes and only shot 10 free throws, but won in a walkEven weirder, in 66 possessions, OSU had 66 shots, 10 free throws and Minnesota had 47 and 20, half of which they missed. OSU’s offense was far from great, but the defense was nails across the board, with nothing looking spectacular statistically beside 3 defense (turnovers I suppose)
Purdue wasted that on Iowa. They would have run any team in the country out of the gym today.IIRC, I heard that there were two venues that these seniors had never won in, Michigan and Iowa, so they were on a personal mission to win those two specifically.
IIRC, I heard that there were two venues that these seniors had never won in, Michigan and Iowa, so they were on a personal mission to win those two specifically.I thought there were three... Obviously with wins in Ann Arbor and Iowa City, that covered 2 of 3...
Has there ever been a runaway choice for COTY like this? This is as good a job as I can recall in the Big Ten ever in terms of overachieving based on preseason expectations.So put it another way. What will it take for Painter to beat out Holtmann for COY? Because I agree with you that his job has been absolutely stellar, and as far as "exceeding expectations", he's knocked it out of the park.
So put it another way. What will it take for Painter to beat out Holtmann for COY? Because I agree with you that his job has been absolutely stellar, and as far as "exceeding expectations", he's knocked it out of the park.I think if Purdue isn’t undefeated, 14-4 or even 13-5 might get it done for OSU.
For Painter, I think it might take a 17-1 or better record, and neither loss can be to MSU or OSU. I think he might be excused from dropping a game, but it certainly can't be to OSU as then Holtmann has wins over both Izzo and Painter [on the road, no less].
And OSU would have to probably fall to 15-3. If OSU is 17-1 with a loss to Purdue, I think Holtmann wins it even if Purdue is the only B1G team in 40 years to go undefeated in conference play. If Purdue is 18-0 and OSU is 16-2, I think it might still be Painter. But I think it'll take 15-3 for OSU not to win it if Purdue goes 17-1.
Thoughts?
So put it another way. What will it take for Painter to beat out Holtmann for COY? Because I agree with you that his job has been absolutely stellar, and as far as "exceeding expectations", he's knocked it out of the park.Same reason Meyer never wins coach of the year. I don't think there's anything Painter can do to win it. It's on OSU, they need a monumental collapse. Like 12-6 type collapse. I think the question with OSU was whether they'd even be able to avoid playing on Wednesday in NYC. Purdue is only sliightly better than I figured they'd be. I think Nebraska and Michigan have possibly exceeded my expectations (which is all that award really is) more than Purdue has.
For Painter, I think it might take a 17-1 or better record, and neither loss can be to MSU or OSU. I think he might be excused from dropping a game, but it certainly can't be to OSU as then Holtmann has wins over both Izzo and Painter [on the road, no less].
And OSU would have to probably fall to 15-3. If OSU is 17-1 with a loss to Purdue, I think Holtmann wins it even if Purdue is the only B1G team in 40 years to go undefeated in conference play. If Purdue is 18-0 and OSU is 16-2, I think it might still be Painter. But I think it'll take 15-3 for OSU not to win it if Purdue goes 17-1.
Thoughts?
Same reason Meyer never wins coach of the year. I don't think there's anything Painter can do to win it. It's on OSU, they need a monumental collapse. Like 12-6 type collapse. I think the question with OSU was whether they'd even be able to avoid playing on Wednesday in NYC. Purdue is only sliightly better than I figured they'd be. I think Nebraska and Michigan have possibly exceeded my expectations (which is all that award really is) more than Purdue has.I could easily see it being a split. Looking through the preseason polls, most knowledgeable sources (including the unofficial coaches poll) had Purdue in the 2 slot. So Purdue's success this year won't really be considered a surprise to the coaches. It was the other media sources that had Purdue down in the 4th through 6th level, usually behind MSU, Minnesota, NW, and sometimes Michigan (and occasionally, laughably, behind IU). So to the media, Purdue is a much bigger surprise.
Granted I was the one at the end of last season, saying even after Bridges came back, Purdue was my 1b to MSU's 1a, that both looked loaded to me.
Yes and no. Going undefeated in this league is a BIG deal (see what I did there.... :)). Hasn't been done in 40 years I believe. So if Purdue manages to go 18-0 (which for that matter, it would be the first time ever that a coach went 18-0 in the Big Ten), that would carry a lot of weight and get a decent amount of media attention. That's why I say that it would eclipse OSU if they have 4 losses. 3 losses or less for OSU and Holtman gets it regardless.Pretty interesting comparison to what just happened in football. MSU was coming off 3-9, with most saying somewhere between that and maybe 5-7 or 6-6 for 2017. They went 10-3, including 7-2 in Big Ten play. Wisconsin was supposed to be really good, but wound up going (9-0) 12-0. PC won COTY. I think that's a pretty dead on comparison if Purdue goes 18-0 and OSU goes like 15-3.
1. | Villanova (1) | |
2. | PURDUE (2) | |
3. | Virginia (3) | |
4. | Duke (4) | |
5. | Kansas (9) | |
6. | North Carolina (7) | |
7. | West Virginia (8) | |
8. | MICHIGAN STATE (10) | |
9. | Xavier (12) | |
10. | Cincinnati (15) | |
11. | Clemson (16) | |
12. | OHIO STATE (18) | |
13. | Auburn (14) | |
14. | Texas Tech (5) | |
15. | Oklahoma (6) | |
16. | Tennessee (17) | |
17. | Gonzaga (13) | |
18. | Arizona (23) | |
19. | Florida (-) | |
20. | Nevada (-) | |
21. | Wichita State (11) | |
22. | Saint Mary's (-) | |
23. | TCU (24) | |
24. | Rhode Island (-) | |
25. | Creighton (25) | |
- | ||
27. | Michigan (20) | |
39. | Maryland (42) | |
60. | Nebraska (74) | |
66. | Minnesota (64) | |
77. | Penn State (63) | |
86. | Northwestern (81) | |
89. | Wisconsin (91) | |
91. | Indiana (77) | |
111. | Iowa (94) | |
118. | Illinois (100) | |
120. | Rutgers (132) | |
Yes and no. Going undefeated in this league is a BIG deal (see what I did there.... :)). Hasn't been done in 40 years I believe. So if Purdue manages to go 18-0 (which for that matter, it would be the first time ever that a coach went 18-0 in the Big Ten), that would carry a lot of weight and get a decent amount of media attention. That's why I say that it would eclipse OSU if they have 4 losses. 3 losses or less for OSU and Holtman gets it regardless.Yes, going undefeated is a big (or as you put it, B1G) deal. If that happens, I wonder how much consideration will be given to what a mess this conference is this year. I do not mean to preliminary diminish Purdue's hypothetical accomplishment but ELA's latest post just pointed out that we have three sub 110 teams and remember that Purdue only plays the 2nd and 3rd best teams once each.
Big Ten COTY is an everybody gets a trophy award.It's not a tallest midget award. It's a most exceeds expectations award. Plenty of coaches have won it in years where they also won the conference. Just not when they were expected to win the conference.
If a coach wins the actual championship hardware, then they should be exempt from the tallest midget trophy.
Give that nonsense to a bubble team that sat home the year before.
OSU has had their best FB seasons during years where expectations were low.Please name the 5-7 coach who won the Coach of the Year
It is often comical to witness some of the mental gymnastics that the Conference will go through in order to find someone else, anyone else, to give that trophy to.
Big Ten: This coach went 5-7 when he was only supposed to go 4-8. Can you believe it? They might even get to play in a Bowl Game.
Rest of League: OMG! That's amazing? We should have hired him! What were we thinking?
Big Ten COTY is an everybody gets a trophy award.Everybody gets a trophy is a stupid and nonsensical metaphore. It just about means anything someone aggrieved wants it to mean.
If a coach wins the actual championship hardware, then they should be exempt from the tallest midget trophy.
Give that nonsense to a bubble team that sat home the year before.
Everybody gets a trophy is a stupid and nonsensical metaphore. It just about means anything someone aggrieved wants it to mean.FWIW: On the Ohio State boards, a LOT of tOSU fans get salty about the fact that it has been nearly 40 years since our coach has won COTY in spite of the fact that our team has been clearly the best in the league over that stretch. This complaint makes some intuitive sense. If Ohio State has had the best program over the past 40 years then it stands to reason that our program has had the best coach at least a few times in that span.
Here we have someone saying it’s part of everyone getting a trophy becuase everyone apparently can’t get this trophy. It’s kind of amazing.
Let’s all agree it’s a kind of silly award. It seems weird y’all want one so damn bad, but whatever.
Where did I indicate that I badly wanted one?If you're mad you can't get one, you want one. Or you want to be mad about it. Which is not great either. (I kinda want to do a study of which years OSU had a case, but that'll probably further sidetrack this)
I want OSU to win real Trophies; the kind you get for winning Bowl Games, NCs, Big Ten Titles, B1G East Titles, rivalry games, maybe a Heisman Trophy here and there.
Let everyone else fight over the COTY consolation prize.
I said jokingly that against Illinois' defensive style MSU might shoot 65% but have 25 turnovers....9-10 with 8 turnovers at the 10 minute mark. Illinois' has zero team rebounds. Every MSU possession has ended with a basket or a TO.
Well at the first media timeout they are 4-4 from the floor with 4 turnovers, so...
If you're mad you can't get one, you want one. Or you want to be mad about it. Which is not great either. (I kinda want to do a study of which years OSU had a case, but that'll probably further sidetrack this)Mocking the trophy and wanting the trophy are two different things.
FWIW: On the Ohio State boards, a LOT of tOSU fans get salty about the fact that it has been nearly 40 years since our coach has won COTY in spite of the fact that our team has been clearly the best in the league over that stretch. This complaint makes some intuitive sense. If Ohio State has had the best program over the past 40 years then it stands to reason that our program has had the best coach at least a few times in that span.So this was interesting actually. I built a big post looking at every year for OSU, if they had COY-worthy seasons, why they didn't win.
I've always responded by explaining that our coach never wins COTY in football because the award is really the "Coach of the team that most exceeded expectations" award and expectations are so high for tOSU football that it is essentially impossible for our coach to win that award. That doesn't satisfy everyone, but I think most over there accept it.
I can tell you that if Painter wins COTY there will be a slew of infuriated Ohio State fans who will point out that our football coach never wins COTY due to high expectations and the same should apply in Basketball.
I don't care too much about the award per-se, but I do care about the principle. In football the Ohio State coach has not won COTY due to high expectations and the same should apply in BB. Barring a stupendous collapse the B1G COTY should be Holtmann.
When/if Underwood fills this roster, Illinois' is going to be a royal pain in the ass to play. They already are not your typical last place team.It seems like that physical Huggins/Frank Martin-type team. Just get in your grill, bump, rely on defense.
Whoever made these schedules should be fired.Everyone has it at some point, it is what it is. Maryland now gets 6 days off before playing MSU travelling on 1 day rest. MSU just had a week off, and are now playing 4 games in 9 days. It is what it is.
I knew at the start of the year this would hurt continuity and confidence.
It's great for the really good, experienced teams, but horrible for young teams.
Everyone has it at some point, it is what it is. Maryland now gets 6 days off before playing MSU travelling on 1 day rest. MSU just had a week off, and are now playing 4 games in 9 days. It is what it is.I'm talking about the home, away, home, away crap.
On this actual topic, for a second, it sounded as if D'Mitrik Trice might return to the court soon. It now appears that's not the case.The 2015 class is, overall, a major bust. Two of them will possibly not be back for their senior seasons.
And as such, UW's mess of a year will go on. The Badgers long had a rep as developers, turning fine players into good ones, or at least system ones. At this point, UW has five scholarship juniors. Only one is better than an inconsistent role player. One is an inconsistent role player, the other three are not in the lineup. There are no scholarship seniors. Hope the six underclassmen can take some kind of jump.
:91:
I'm talking about the home, away, home, away crap.I actually think this year has been the exact opposite. Generally there is far more H-A-H-A scheduling. This year seems like everyone is playing all of their home games in the front half or back half of their schedule.
MSU is an experienced team with confidence.
Ouch!Something about tourney coaching experience. Of the past 34 National Champions, only 3 were coached by a guy who had never coached past the Sweet 16, and all were in cases where they sort of took over a team, rather than trying to do it with their own team for the first time. You have Steve Fisher in '89 taking over right before the tourney; Tubby Smith basically being handed a championship team by Rick Pitino in '98 when he left for the NBA; and Kevin Ollie taking over for Calhoun for the '14 UConn champs.
Also, not exactly correct. While people like to lambast Painter for never getting past the Sweet 16, very few of his teams were truly expected to. Even the best team he's ever had prior to this year, the year when Hummel/Johnson/Moore were juniors and Kramer was a senior, the ACL tear Hummel had derailed the season.
Every year Purdue has made the sweet 16, they faced the 1 seed in that game. They never were the ones to get lucky enough to have the 8/9 winner knock off the 1. Up until last year, the other 1 seeds they faced were UConn (made it to the Final Four) and Duke (won the whole damn thing).
Last year, Purdue had a good team, but was still only a 4 seed. They faced Kansas in the Sweet 16, held the lead for much of the first half, and the game was within 2 points about 5 minutes into the 2nd half. And then Kansas just went crazy and couldn't miss.
And that team last year had a problem. They just weren't athletic enough. Swanigan was a beast, but he can't guard an athletic 4. Haas is a human mountain, but can't guard away from the basket. Carsen Edwards was athletic, but he was still a freshman playing too fast for himself.
This year's different. Carsen is letting the game flow to him but still can turn up the pace on command. Haarms is the athletic, tall stretch big that can help against more athletic 4's or 5's that give Haas trouble. Eastern is a frosh point guard who can play enough minutes and is a big, 6'6" guy who is athletic enough to give opponents fits when he defends. And that's who you have supporting the cast of 4 seniors who have all basically started together since their freshman years and know the game inside and out.
I'm not sure how Purdue is going to finish the season. But I honestly believe that this is Matt Painter's best team -- even better than the Hummel/Johnson/Moore/Kramer year before Hummel's injury. This team lost the Big Ten Player of the Year... And got better.
4 sophomores and a freshman sounds better than 2 sophomores and 3 freshmen.I didn't say they were the LEAST experienced team. I just wouldn't call that experienced for anyone but Kentucky or Duke who plan on running out like 3-4 freshmen starters every year.
If Bender and Jackson were playing, we'd probably win vs Michigan and Indiana, both away games.
I didn't say they were the LEAST experienced team. I just wouldn't call that experienced for anyone but Kentucky or Duke who plan on running out like 3-4 freshmen starters every year.For fun: by the KenPom experience thing
Purdue is starting 4 seniors. Ohio State is starting 2 seniors and 2 juniors. There might be a reason they are the top two teams. A whole lot of experience on the court in West Lafayette and Columbus.
For fun: by the KenPom experience thingWhat do make of my thought that Van Vliet and Thomas, and possibly Illikainin, are going to be gone after this season?
Purdue 57th
OSU 156th
MSU 277th
Maryland 318th
... Wisconsin 328th
For fun: by the KenPom experience thingMSU's experience is packed with talent, together, cohesive.
Purdue 57th
OSU 156th
MSU 277th
Maryland 318th
... Wisconsin 328th
I can tell you that if Painter wins COTY there will be a slew of infuriated Ohio State fans who will point out that our football coach never wins COTY due to high expectations and the same should apply in Basketball.To some degree, I will agree, hence why I asked just how far Painter has to exceed Holtmann's results in order to get COTY.
Something about tourney coaching experience. Of the past 34 National Champions, only 3 were coached by a guy who had never coached past the Sweet 16, and all were in cases where they sort of took over a team, rather than trying to do it with their own team for the first time. You have Steve Fisher in '89 taking over right before the tourney; Tubby Smith basically being handed a championship team by Rick Pitino in '98 when he left for the NBA; and Kevin Ollie taking over for Calhoun for the '14 UConn champs.I dunno. "Only 3 national championships for coaches that didn't previously make it past the Sweet 16" sounds like the same sort of backwards analysis as "Well this coach doesn't do well because he's not good at beating ranked teams on the road".
To some degree, I will agree, hence why I asked just how far Painter has to exceed Holtmann's results in order to get COTY.I get that and I think we are on the same page. What do you feel the expectation for Purdue and Ohio State (in # of wins)?
That said, if he is the first B1G coach to go undefeated in conference play in 42 years, and first ever to go 18-0 [as earlier schedules had fewer games], I'd say that's still exceeding expectations.
Undefeated in football is a much lower bar to clear than it is in basketball.
I think you're reading it like Painter is a bad coach who will never get there. That's not the point. The point is that navigating 6 games through the NCAA tournament is a difficult feat, and that maybe there is something to getting almost all the way there where you learn what needs to be tweaked. That it would be the first time in over three decades a coach like Painter won a national title, having never gotten even halfway there before despite being in place for a while. That maybe he needs to take a Final Four heartbreak before he wins one.True, but Fisher, Smith, and Ollie did it. They were dropped into talented teams and clearly handled their business.
A lot of great coaches have won their first (and/or only) national titles over the past 34 years...John Thompson, Rollie Massimino, Denny Crum, Larry Brown, Tark, Coach K, Nolan Richardson, Rick Pitino, Lute Olsen, Jim Calhoun, Tom Izzo, Gary Williams, Jim Boeheim, Roy Williams, Billy Donovan, Bill Self, John Calipari, Jay Wright.
Not one of them did it the first time they made it past the Sweet 16.
Rollie, Calhoun and Self were the only three that did it on their first trip to the final weekend.
I get that and I think we are on the same page. What do you feel the expectation for Purdue and Ohio State (in # of wins)?No argument there. I think 14-4 was a reasonable preseason Purdue expectation. I didn't follow preseason OSU expectations, but with how they struggled OOC, I definitely think 5-6 wins probably wasn't all that far off. Especially when people thought the conference would be a little tougher.
My guess at the answers to that is around 13-14 for PU and around 5-6 for Ohio State.
That means that Ohio State is already 3-4 games over expectations and Purdue can do no better than 4-5 games over expectations.
If Wisconsin doesn't wake up, they aren't even going to make the NIT.They are awake. They just aren't good.
No argument there. I think 14-4 was a reasonable preseason Purdue expectation. I didn't follow preseason OSU expectations, but with how they struggled OOC, I definitely think 5-6 wins probably wasn't all that far off. Especially when people thought the conference would be a little tougher.Maybe instead of looking only at # of wins above expectation we should instead or also consider % of expected losses converted to wins.
So yes, Holtmann will by FAR exceed expectations more than Painter possibly could if you're just counting "number of wins above expectation". But something like 18-0 is a statement in a different way. Nobody has done it in 42 years. That might get some attention.
Still, I think Holtmann is the odds-on favorite, and should be. It'll take something extraordinary at this point for him not to win it. All we're debating is what constitutes "extraordinary enough".
Wins | % |
9 | 25.00% |
10 | 33.33% |
11 | 41.67% |
12 | 50.00% |
13 | 58.33% |
14 | 66.67% |
15 | 75.00% |
16 | 83.33% |
17 | 91.67% |
18 | 100.00% |
Wins | % |
14 | 0.00% |
15 | 25.00% |
16 | 50.00% |
17 | 75.00% |
18 | 100.00% |
Date | Won | @/v | Lost |
4-Dec | UW | @ | PSU |
2-Jan | UNL | @ | NU |
6-Jan | IU | @ | MN |
11-Jan | IA | @ | ILL |
13-Jan | M | @ | MSU |
15-Jan | MN | @ | PSU |
20-Jan | tOSU | MSG* | MN |
23-Jan | NU | @ | MN |
Team | noAway | noAway | noAway | noAway | noHome | noHome | noHome | noHome | RR-W | RR-L | miss-W | miss-L | Proj-W | Proj-L | RR% | Proj% | Diff | +Var | -Var | Var | Conf-W | Conf-L | OOC-W | OOC-L | ProjT-W | ProjT-L |
Purdue | UNL | NU | tOSU | PSU | ILL | IU | IOWA | MSU | 24 | 2 | 7 | 1 | 17 | 1 | 0.923 | 0.944 | 0.021 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 17 | 1 | 11 | 2 | 28 | 3 |
MSU | M | UNL | PSU | PU | IOWA | MN | NU | tOSU | 24 | 2 | 7 | 1 | 17 | 1 | 0.923 | 0.944 | 0.021 | 0 | (1) | (1) | 16 | 2 | 12 | 1 | 28 | 3 |
tOSU | MSU | UMD | UNL | ILL | UW | NU | MN | PU | 20 | 6 | 6 | 2 | 14 | 4 | 0.769 | 0.778 | 0.009 | 1 | 0 | 1 | 15 | 3 | 9 | 4 | 24 | 7 |
M | ILL | IU | MN | RU | MSU | UNL | PSU | UW | 14 | 12 | 5 | 3 | 9 | 9 | 0.538 | 0.500 | (0.038) | 1 | 0 | 1 | 10 | 8 | 11 | 2 | 21 | 10 |
PSU | M | MN | RU | UW | ILL | IU | MSU | PU | 14 | 12 | 3 | 5 | 11 | 7 | 0.538 | 0.611 | 0.073 | 0 | (2) | (2) | 9 | 9 | 10 | 3 | 19 | 12 |
UMD | IOWA | MN | RU | UW | ILL | IU | UNL | tOSU | 14 | 12 | 6 | 2 | 8 | 10 | 0.538 | 0.444 | (0.094) | 0 | 0 | 0 | 8 | 10 | 11 | 2 | 19 | 12 |
Minny | ILL | MSU | tOSU | RU | UMD | M | PSU | UW | 14 | 12 | 6 | 2 | 8 | 10 | 0.538 | 0.444 | (0.094) | 1 | (3) | (2) | 6 | 12 | 11 | 2 | 17 | 14 |
UNL | IU | IOWA | UMD | M | MSU | NU | tOSU | PU | 10 | 16 | 1 | 7 | 9 | 9 | 0.385 | 0.500 | 0.115 | 1 | 0 | 1 | 10 | 8 | 9 | 4 | 19 | 12 |
UW | IU | M | MN | tOSU | IOWA | UMD | PSU | RU | 10 | 16 | 4 | 4 | 6 | 12 | 0.385 | 0.333 | (0.051) | 1 | 0 | 1 | 7 | 11 | 7 | 6 | 14 | 17 |
IU | UMD | NU | PSU | PU | M | UNL | RU | UW | 10 | 16 | 4 | 4 | 6 | 12 | 0.385 | 0.333 | (0.051) | 1 | 0 | 1 | 7 | 11 | 7 | 5 | 14 | 16 |
NU | ILL | MSU | UNL | tOSU | IU | IOWA | PU | RU | 10 | 16 | 3 | 5 | 7 | 11 | 0.385 | 0.389 | 0.004 | 1 | (1) | 0 | 7 | 11 | 9 | 4 | 16 | 15 |
RU | IU | IOWA | NU | UW | UMD | M | MN | PSU | 6 | 20 | 0 | 8 | 6 | 12 | 0.231 | 0.333 | 0.103 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 6 | 12 | 10 | 3 | 16 | 15 |
ILL | IOWA | UMD | PSU | PU | M | MN | NU | tOSU | 6 | 20 | 1 | 7 | 5 | 13 | 0.231 | 0.278 | 0.047 | 0 | (1) | (1) | 4 | 14 | 10 | 3 | 14 | 17 |
Iowa | MSU | NU | PU | UW | IL | UMD | UNL | RU | 6 | 20 | 3 | 5 | 3 | 15 | 0.231 | 0.167 | (0.064) | 1 | 0 | 1 | 4 | 14 | 9 | 4 | 13 | 18 |
In the worldwide leader's latest bracketology we are down to a 4-bid league. Maryland has dropped from last four in to first four out. We have a one seed (PU), a two seed (MSU), a three seed (tOSU), and an eight seed (M).And he has MSU and OSU higher than most.
I think their Sunday home game against MSU is their must win. It's a home game, on a long 6 day rest, playing an MSU team that already struggles on the road, travelling in on 1 day rest. If they are going to pull a big win, that is about as perfect a setup as you can ask for. It also depends on where the fans are at by that point. When MSU went in there a couple years ago it was an absolute hive. Last year, not so much.I agree. I said in my post that I thought the Terrapins had to win one of the next two and your elaboration of the circumstances of the MSU game makes clear that it almost has to be that one. Stranger things have happened but Maryland losing at home on a long rest to an MSU team on a short rest then turning around and winning in West Lafayette would be shocking.
Looking at the likely Bubble-teams:if the Huskers can't beat Rutgers there's no reason to worry about being on the bubble. The way the Badgers are playing that should also be a win if a team is worthy of the tournament.To be a serious bubble team I think the Cornhuskers are going to have to win at least two of those and the easiest ones are probably the first (tonight against RU) and last (at Illinois on 2/18).
- @RU, tonight
- @UW, 1/29
- @MN, 2/6
- @ILL, 2/18
I think their Sunday home game against MSU is their must win. It's a home game, on a long 6 day rest, playing an MSU team that already struggles on the road, travelling in on 1 day rest. If they are going to pull a big win, that is about as perfect a setup as you can ask for. It also depends on where the fans are at by that point. When MSU went in there a couple years ago it was an absolute hive. Last year, not so much.Of course also depends heavily on whether the refs want MSU to win or not
if the Huskers can't beat Rutgers there's no reason to worry about being on the bubble.I think that is true for both games tonight. Both Nebraska and Indiana are running out of time. In theory either of them could lose tonight and make up for it later but in reality it seems pretty unlikely that either of them can afford a loss to RU/IL tonight.
Of course also depends heavily on whether the refs want MSU to win or notShouldn't be a problem this time around.
In talking about potential bubble teams I left out Indiana but is there a potential case to be made for the Hoosiers?Nevermind.
The good news is that they are 5-3 in the league and 12-8 overall. More good news is that their SoS is pretty good (#22 per BPI). The bad news is that they had two just dreadful losses OOC. They lost badly to both Indiana State and Fort Wayne. Ouch!
The Hoosiers are at Illinois tonight. They HAVE to win that. Then they have this stretch:If they beat Illinois and win at least one of the three after that they'll be 7-5/14-10 with a quality win. They wouldn't have much room for error but after that their schedule is manageable:
- vs Purdue Sunday
- at Ohio State Tuesday
- vs Michigan State Saturday
It isn't impossible to imagine them going 5-1 through that to finish 12-6/19-11. I don't think that would get them in, but it would at least get them into the bubble discussion.
- at Rutgers
- vs Minnesota
- vs Illinois
- at Iowa
- at Nebraska
- vs Ohio State
Date | Won | @/v | Lost |
4-Dec | UW | @ | PSU |
2-Jan | UNL | @ | NU |
6-Jan | IU | @ | MN |
11-Jan | IA | @ | ILL |
13-Jan | M | @ | MSU |
15-Jan | MN | @ | PSU |
20-Jan | tOSU | MSG* | MN |
23-Jan | NU | @ | MN |
Will there be a fifth B1G team in the NCAA this year?Wow! 12-6 in conference games gets a B1G team to the NCAA bubble?
It looks pretty shaky. PU, MSU, and tOSU are all in barring epic collapses. Michigan looks pretty good for a bid. After that it gets questionable:
The next best teams in the B1G standings are UNL and IU with four losses each but the Hoosiers just gave Illinois their first B1G win of the year and also have a couple of really bad OOC losses so I think they need a miracle.
Next are the five-loss teams: Maryland, Northwestern, Wisconsin, and Penn State. Maryland is probably the best of the bunch but their next two games are against MSU and Purdue and if they don't win at least one I think they are in trouble.
All the rest of the league's teams have at least seven league losses and I'm not sure that 11-7 would be good enough so even if they miraculously won out they would still probably have work to do in the BTT at MSG in NYC.
That brings me back to Nebraska:
They are currrently 6-4/15-8 with eight league games and the BTT to go. All four league losses were on the road and three of them are not really damaging (@PU, @MSU, @tOSU). The only questionable league loss is @PSU but that isn't terrible. Their OOC losses are also pretty good being @St.John's, @Creighton, a neutral site loss to UCF, and a home loss to Kansas.
We project them to go 6-2 in their last eight B1G games. Here are those games roughly organized by what I think they are most likely to win to what I think they are least likely to win:There isn't a game left where it looks like the Cornhuskers are hopeless. I have Wisconsin has tougher than Minnesota because the Minnesota game is on nearly a week's rest while the Wisconsin game is on a short turn-around after the home game with Iowa.
- vs Rutgers 2/10
- vs Iowa 1/27
- vs Indiana 2/20
- vs Penn State 2/25
- at Illinois 2/18
- vs Maryland 2/13
- at Minnesota 2/6
- at Wisconsin 1/29
What do they need, and can they get there? I'm thinking that 12-6 would get them to the bubble discussion but I'm not sure that it gets them in. It would probably get them a 4-seed in the BTT and a likely game with Michigan on Friday. That would probably be a must-win for the Cornhuskers mostly because they have a pretty weak B1G SoS and not a lot of quality wins.
also due to the Big 12 having many teams rankedThat 1 point loss to Kansas...
many in the top 10
Lunardi now has Ohio State up to a 2-seed and playing opening round games in Pittsburgh.Nevermind.
Well that was about as crazy an ending as you'll seeAnd heartbreaking for Ohio State fans. The Buckeyes fought their way back into a tie game with almost no time left and ballgame.
And heartbreaking for Ohio State fans. The Buckeyes fought their way back into a tie game with almost no time left and ballgame.I think the "we have no business winning this game...but holy crap, we might...never mind," is just about the worst. I'd certainly rather get blown out, I might rather blow a lead. But to reinvest in a game, you had already checked out of, just to lose I think might be the worst.
Ohio State still projects as the 3-seed in the BTT. Penn State's upset win moves them into a projected tie with Michigan for 4th/5th and the Nittany Lions would win that tie due to not playing in Ann Arbor this year. Thus PSU would be the 5-seed and Michigan the 6-seed in the BTT at MSG in NYC.
the only chance the Huskers have is to win their home games starting with Iowa this Saturday evening, win one of 3 on the road. 6 of 8 down the stretch would almost certainly put them in 4th alone in the Big Ten, win the first round tourney game.Ohio State isn't a lock yet either. It isn't impossible to conjure up a scenario in which Nebraska gets the 3-seed with Ohio State and Michigan in 4th/5th. In that case the 4/5 game on Friday of the BTT (assuming #5 beats the 12/13 winner on Thursday) might be for the B1G's final NCAA bid because it is hard to see the loser of that game getting in (depending on records of course).
The B1G will get 4 teams, just because. If Michigan falters down the stretch the Huskers could get in by default.
The question going forward for both the Buckeyes and Nittany Lions is whether this is a blip, upsets happen, or if this is a sign of a change.at this point I would assume it is a blip. I was only about to watch the first ten minutes, but PSU couldn't miss from behind the arc. Teams just aren't going to hit at the high of a percentage, just one of those things that happens.
For the Buckeyes:
As long as this is a blip, it probably doesn't change much. I thought Lunardi's 2-seed projection was overly-generous anyway. At this point I think the Buckeyes would have to win out (including winning the BTT at MSG in NYC) or awfully close to it (maybe lose at Purdue) to get a 2-seed. As long as they don't suffer any more unexpected losses they should be somewhere around a 4/5 seed.
If this is a sign of things to come, the Cinderella season could be in trouble. The Buckeyes next host an Indiana team that can be either very good or very bad depending on which night you catch them. Additionally, the Buckeyes still have road games that could go either way remaining against the Hoosiers and Nittany Lions. The 9-0 start in the B1G could evaporate quickly down the stretch.
For the Nittany Lions:
Unless this is a big sign of things to come this will not do anything for PSU's NCAA chances. We project them to lose three more games:Additionally, they have home games that could go either way remaining against Maryland, Ohio State, and Michigan. It is going to take more than one upset to get the Nittany Lions onto the Bubble.
- @MSU (1/31)
- @Pur (2/18)
- @UNL (2/25)
final bid being for the 3rd team or the 4th?I assume 4th with (in this scenario) Nebraska being safely in as #3. The top two seeds in the BTT will be locks. There is almost no plausible scenario in which the B1G's 2-seed isn't a lock.
I think the Big gets 4 unless Nebraska/Michigan collapse and no one else goes on a run
at this point I would assume it is a blip. I was only about to watch the first ten minutes, but PSU couldn't miss from behind the arc. Teams just aren't going to hit at the high of a percentage, just one of those things that happens.I also would assume so until proven otherwise but I'll be keeping an eye on the two teams. Ohio State's next two games are both at home against Indiana and Illinois. They should win both. If not, maybe the PSU loss was more than a blip.
Somewhat OT, mini scheduling rant:But you get better ratings on weeknights. They don't care about ticket holders anymore. They aren't a conference, they are a conglomerate of teams to provide content for a TV network.
I was looking at the schedule for this weekend and my team is one of five that do not play at all this weekend (Fri-Sun). The Buckeyes, Wolverines, Gophers, Wildcats, and Illini are all idle until at least Monday.
Why would the conference give teams byes on the weekends? It simply HAS to be easier to sell tickets to games played on weekends than it is to games played during the week.
As my screenname implies, I live in Medina. If you are not familiar with it, Medina is a Cleveland/Akron suburb about two hours from Ohio State's campus. This makes it very difficult for me to attend weekday evening basketball games. Here are all of Ohio State's weekend league games this season:IMHO, it would make a lot more sense to give teams a week off instead of a weekend off both for fans and for the alleged student athletes. As a fan who lives two hours from campus there are only three weekend home games available for me to choose from to attend games.
- @ Wisconsin, Sat Dec 2
- vs Michigan State, Sun Jan 7
- @ Rutgers, Sun, Jan 14
- vs Minnesota, Sat, Jan 20 (in NYC at MSG)
- vs Illinois, Sun, Feb 4
- vs Iowa, Sat, Feb 10
- @ Michigan, Sun, Feb 18
But you get better ratings on weeknights. They don't care about ticket holders anymore. They aren't a conference, they are a conglomerate of teams to provide content for a TV network.Sadly this is probably true. However, I think it is short-sighted because fans in the seats are your best fans and the ones most likely to be watching when they aren't in the seats. Oh well.
Sadly this is probably true. However, I think it is short-sighted because fans in the seats are your best fans and the ones most likely to be watching when they aren't in the seats. Oh well.The $10 seats almost got me in the door last night.
Sadly this is probably true. However, I think it is short-sighted because fans in the seats are your best fans and the ones most likely to be watching when they aren't in the seats. Oh well.Not probably pal. Definitely true. If it wasn't, Maryland and (especially) Rutgers would not be on the top ribbon of the Big Ten website.
Wisconsin has looked totally different offensively the last 10 game minutes crossing over halftime.What do you mean?
What do you mean?They looked a lot more active in creating their shots. Early on it seemed like they we're just jacking up bad threes or just letting Happ try and go one on two while everyone stood around.
BaB,I guess this is my point. If you were going to leave one open, or two, why not just hold onto the player? AI still has ninth man potential ( obviously ninth men do very little). Thomas could be a body in practice if nothing else. Both seem to go hard against the starters, without them, it is more walk-ons/assistant coaches.
We've discussed many times over the years here the nature of UW's classes and how damn unbalanced they have been (5 one year, 1 the next, etc.).
I think they should find a good player with the 'ship they have (think the Libertyville kid near me - he's pretty solid).
If they do lose at least one (and hopefully 3), they just need to bank them and get the classes balanced again.
Date | Won | @/v | Lost |
4-Dec | UW | @ | PSU |
2-Jan | UNL | @ | NU |
6-Jan | IU | @ | MN |
11-Jan | IA | @ | ILL |
13-Jan | M | @ | MSU |
15-Jan | MN | @ | PSU |
20-Jan | tOSU | MSG* | MN |
23-Jan | NU | @ | MN |
25-Jan | PSU | @ | tOSU |
Ohio State even*IMHO you shouldn't "score" the OSU over MN win as an upset. It was a neutral site game, so I would think that if you remove HFA, a 1-tier advantage team should beat their opponent, which is what happened.
Minnesota -2**Ohio State's win over Minnesota is treated as an "upset" because it replaced a Minnesota home game but the game was actually played at MSG in NYC so it should not be credited to Ohio State nor held against Minnesota.
Date Won @/v Lost 4-Dec UW @ PSU 2-Jan UNL @ NU 6-Jan IU @ MN 11-Jan IA @ ILL 13-Jan M @ MSU 15-Jan MN @ PSU 20-Jan tOSU MSG* MN 23-Jan NU @ MN 25-Jan PSU @ tOSU
IMHO you shouldn't "score" the OSU over MN win as an upset. It was a neutral site game, so I would think that if you remove HFA, a 1-tier advantage team should beat their opponent, which is what happened.I would, but there is a reason I didn't.
Now, I agree with the asterisk, but I would rather you display it as OSU (-1) and Minnesota (-1) than even and -2, respectively.
It's all about the coachingI agree to a point. Greg Gard is a very good coach. He took a "disaster" of a team over when Bo stepped down and got to within a hair of the Elite 8. Then he got them to the 16 last season.
The projected final standings/BTT seeds are:If you look at this, it is EXTREMELY favorable to Purdue. IMHO, the power-ranking of B1G teams is roughly:
- 17-1 Purdue
- 16-2 Michigan State
- 14-4 Ohio State
- 12-6 Nebraska
- 10-8 Penn State (wins tiebreaker over M based on H2H, no game in Ann Arbor)
- 10-8 Michigan
- 8-10 Maryland
Hey, the last thing any Purdue fan wants is to have to face Michigan again. I'd much rather be up against UNL or PSU...It isn't just that. Another angle here is that if #1 gets upset there could be a BIG drop to the next best team on that side of the bracket.
1. | Villanova (1) | |
2. | Virginia (3) | |
3. | PURDUE (2) | |
4. | Duke (4) | |
5. | Kansas (5) | |
6. | MICHIGAN STATE (8) | |
7. | Cincinnati (10) | |
8. | Xavier (9) | |
9. | Auburn (13) | |
10. | North Carolina (6) | |
11. | Texas Tech (14) | |
12. | Tennessee (16) | |
13. | West Virginia (7) | |
14. | Clemson (11) | |
15. | Oklahoma (15) | |
16. | Gonzaga (17) | |
17. | OHIO STATE (12) | |
18. | Arizona (18) | |
19. | Wichita State (21) | |
20. | Kentucky (-) | |
21. | Florida (19) | |
22. | Saint Mary's (22) | |
23. | Florida State (-) | |
24. | Creighton (25) | |
25. | Rhode Island (24) | |
- | ||
30. | Michigan (27) | |
47. | Maryland (39) | |
61. | Nebraska (60) | |
68. | Penn State (77) | |
76. | Minnesota (66) | |
77. | Northwestern (86) | |
84. | Indiana (91) | |
96. | Wisconsin (89) | |
111. | Iowa (111) | |
114. | Illinois (118) | |
137. | Rutgers (120) | |
Wow, what a final 20 minutes by NebraskaI'm not sure why this team is trying to hurt me so, but God it is.
Wow, what a final 20 minutes by NebraskaIverson's big dunk pissed off the Huskers
Monday game... I missed it. Probably not a bad thing.Didn't want to have it on at the same time as the FS1 Big Ten game.
I was just looking and I guess it was on BTN. I don't get why the 8PM start though. All they had on before it was re-runs of Elite or whatever.
I admit that it is kinda weird how both Purdue and Michigan had this epic game where neither team could miss, and then they both came out in their next game and couldn't hit the broad side of a barn for a half. Fortunately, both were able to grind out a win.(https://i1.wp.com/www.wall4k.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/08/Um-mm-yeah-nah-Funny-Nah-Meme-Images.jpg)
(https://i1.wp.com/www.wall4k.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/08/Um-mm-yeah-nah-Funny-Nah-Meme-Images.jpg)Well, yeah, I get your perspective, but from a Big Ten perspective, it was better that both Michigan and Purdue won. I think I've come to the point where I can honestly say I would prefer that PU, MSU, OSU, Mich, and maybe one of Maryland or Nebraska win out the rest of their games against all the other lower teams.
Well, yeah, I get your perspective, but from a Big Ten perspective, it was better that both Michigan and Purdue won. I think I've come to the point where I can honestly say I would prefer that PU, MSU, OSU, Mich, and maybe one of Maryland or Nebraska win out the rest of their games against all the other lower teams.I'd prefer to win a Big Ten title, which means MSU needs to win out, and someone needs to knock off Purdue. If that someone is OSU, it means someone else needs to beat the Bucks.
Make the top 5 seem as strong as possible . The league is down this year, there is nothing that can happen in the next 6 weeks to change that, but at least being able to keep the top 4 in the top 25 and have at least one or two decently strong teams goes a long way on the perception front.
That would be greeeeeeeaaaaat.
I'd prefer to win a Big Ten title, which means MSU needs to win out, and someone needs to knock off Purdue. If that someone is OSU, it means someone else needs to beat the Bucks.I'm curious, do you care at all if it is outright as opposed to a "co" and do you care at all how the tiebreakers work? As for myself, I'd love a B1G Championship. I'd prefer outright but I do not see that as a big deal and (other than the way in which it impacts BTT seeding*) I could care less how the tiebreakers work out.
I'm curious, do you care at all if it is outright as opposed to a "co" and do you care at all how the tiebreakers work? As for myself, I'd love a B1G Championship. I'd prefer outright but I do not see that as a big deal and (other than the way in which it impacts BTT seeding*) I could care less how the tiebreakers work out.Yeah, I'd rather not share it, but it doesn't really matter. As for seeding, I don't care at all. The standings, particularly in the middle are so fluid that I don't think there's an inherent advantage in playing the 8 vs the 7 vs the 6.
*Depending on how the field shakes out, there are some years when I would prefer to lose a 2-way or 3-way tie as far as BTT seeding goes.
FWIW: I think that Nebraska's win last night was HUGE for them. They travel to Minnesota a week from today then finish up with four home games (RU, UMD, IU, PSU) and a road trip to struggling (that is being charitable) Illinois. We project them to lose in Minneapolis then win the last five to finish 13-5. That would at least get them onto the Bubble heading to NYC. After Maryland's home loss to the Spartans I now think that Nebraska is probably the B1G's best chance at a fifth team in the NCAA Tournament.if the full week of rest helps, they could beat the Gophers on the road and then have some real momentum coming home to the vault
if the full week of rest helps, they could beat the Gophers on the road and then have some real momentum coming home to the vaultWhat would it take to get Nebraska into the dance?
could finish 4th in the conference, but they really struggle with fundamentals and bone head plays for long stretches.
making the tourney would obviously save Miles job, a tourney victory would be crazy
I guess crazy things happen in basketball
What would it take to get Nebraska into the dance?but, obviously there are 6 games ahead of this cart
That would get them to 13-5/22-9. This could be enough
- 12/16: vs Kansas by 1: This is probably the game the Cornhuskers most wish they could have back. Still, it is about as much of a "good loss" as you can imagine. yes and yes, friggin Jayhawks!
Of the last six games, a road loss to Minnesota or a home loss to Maryland wouldn't be too bad. As long as they only lose one of those and win the rest I think they are at least on the bubble at 13-5/22-9. If they could win out, I think they would be a lock. First off, that would get them a very good 14-4/23-8 record. Secondly, including the wins over RU, IA, and UW it would mean finishing on a nine game winning streak so that when the committee looked at records Nebraska would be 9-1 in their last 10. Finishing strong helps a lot.
The 4-seed is VERY likely for a hypothetical 13-5 Nebraska. If only 4 Big Ten teams get in, the Huskers could be the 4th
Is Purdue going to be able to make it wire to wire through the Big Ten regular season, without tripping over any of the road apples?Well, @MSU wouldn't even be an upset for Purdue to lose. Apparently the win probability in that game is ~54% MSU.
Well, @MSU wouldn't even be an upset for Purdue to lose. Apparently the win probability in that game is ~54% MSU.Yeah, I think MSU has a slightly better frontcourt, and much better depth. But Purdue has a much better backcourt. MSU's backcourt is serviceable shooting the ball, and pretty good in transition, but terrible in the hafl court, and can't defend to save their lives. Haas will do some damage, but I think MSU does ok down low there, but I think Purdue absolutely kills them on the perimeter.
And tonight's home game against Maryland and a week from now against OSU are tough even at home.
Right before a week of playing vOSU/@MSU is this Saturday's game @RU. A road game against a downtrodden but plucky conference foe? Can you say "trap game".
If Purdue gets to 14-0, my money is on them making it to 18. But the next 11 days are not an easy road.
On this subject of schedules, the B1G schedule this year deprived us of a lot of top games.Nebraska may finish 4th, as a product of their schedule, but Michigan would have to fall off quite a bit for Nebraska to leap them in terms of tourney profile.Well, @MSU wouldn't even be an upset for Purdue to lose. Apparently the win probability in that game is ~54% MSU.
And tonight's home game against Maryland and a week from now against OSU are tough even at home.
Right before a week of playing vOSU/@MSU is this Saturday's game @RU. A road game against a downtrodden but plucky conference foe? Can you say "trap game".
If Purdue gets to 14-0, my money is on them making it to 18. But the next 11 days are not an easy road.
Yeah, I think MSU has a slightly better frontcourt, and much better depth. But Purdue has a much better backcourt. MSU's backcourt is serviceable shooting the ball, and pretty good in transition, but terrible in the hafl court, and can't defend to save their lives. Haas will do some damage, but I think MSU does ok down low there, but I think Purdue absolutely kills them on the perimeter.To be honest, I don't watch a lot of teams outside Purdue, but I'm a little surprised that anyone is rating a frontcourt better than Purdue's.
Nebraska may finish 4th, as a product of their schedule, but Michigan would have to fall off quite a bit for Nebraska to leap them in terms of tourney profile.we can always hope
To be honest, I don't watch a lot of teams outside Purdue, but I'm a little surprised that anyone is rating a frontcourt better than Purdue's.As of last I checked MSU's front court defense was historically good. The gap between their interior defense in terms of FG% and #2 was the same as between #2 and like #73. Still leading the nation in blocked shots as well. As I said though, MSU's edge in the front court is MUCH smaller than Purdue's edge in the backcourt, which is why I'd pick Purdue to win.
MSU is going to win the game against Purdue. They will come out like gangbusters because A) They know that it is a must-win if they have any shot at getting a Big Ten title, B) They know that their schedule has been somewhat weak, and this is literally their only shot at getting another top 50 RPI win this year. (Yes, I am aware of the fact that I am using RPI in an argument......inherently flawed, I know).Didn't they start moving away from just RPI? Some of the other metrics are more favorable to the Big Ten. Maryland is #42 in KenPom, and Penn State and Nebraska are just out at #56 and #57. UNC is still up at #13, so I imagine they'll remain. The RPI is really down on the Big Ten this year. I noticed during the MSU-Maryland game on Sunday, when they showed Maryland's resume, they had a road loss at #23 Michigan slated as a "Bad Loss." I can't recall losing a road game to a ranked team ever being called a Bad Loss before.
MSU has played four top 50 teams so far, and lost three of them (Duke, OSU, and Michigan). Their one Top 50 win (UNC, #11) has lost three in a row and still has games of Duke, @NCSt, @Louisville, Miami, and @ Duke. It's distinctly possible that they lose all 5 of those. With a likely loss somewhere in the ACC tournament, they are looking at a possible 20-13 season. That might keep them in the top 50, but it could be close.
As of last I checked MSU's front court defense was historically good. The gap between their interior defense in terms of FG% and #2 was the same as between #2 and like #73. Still leading the nation in blocked shots as well. As I said though, MSU's edge in the front court is MUCH smaller than Purdue's edge in the backcourt, which is why I'd pick Purdue to win.So I'm intrigued by this... Again, I haven't watched a lot of MSU basketball. But I remember Purdue a few years ago with Hammons (an elite shot-blocker) who was able to clean up defensive missed assignments on the perimeter. He didn't get all those blocks by stopping opposing centers; he got them blocking drives. I wonder whether MSU's great 2P FG% and block numbers are coming from strong post defense, or are coming from being able to keep slashing guards and wings from getting the ball in the hoop.
The help side defense, particularly from JJ has been the best I've seen at MSU. The other thing is all of their depth is on that front line, so they are also defending without fear of fouling. Jackson picked up his 4th foul with about 12 minutes left in the Maryland game, and he didn't come back in until about the 2 minute mark. Typically, that would either be crippling, or they'd have to risk it, and keep him in, telling him to back off. I think Ward is also showing how good he is as a defender, he blocked 5 of Happ's shots in one half last Friday. He was victimized by MSU having zero frontline depth last year, and having to stay out of foul trouble. Getting to go all out, he's a much better shot blocker than we ever thought he was. So we got Schilling and Carter back from injuries that cost them all of 2017, and added Jackson and Tillman, and at times I get frustrated why guys are on the bench too much, but the way college basketball is now, there are times you can only play 1. Going to revert next year with Schilling and Carter graduating, Jackson assuredly a 1 and done, and rumors Ward might go too.To add some stats to it, they held Happ to 36% from the floor on Friday, on 19 shots. That was his 2nd lowest from the season, and his lowest (33%) came on only 6 shots against OSU. I think at least 6 or 7 of misses came via blocked shot.
The teams who have neutralized MSU's interior defense the best have done so by spacing the floor and eliminating that help defense. Granted that only works if you have 4 three point threats on the court together. Obviously Michigan was the best example of that. Duke was forced to do the same once Bagley got hurt, and it maybe worked out better for them matchup wise.Thanks for the notes, ELA. I think I was perhaps underestimating the ability they have to defend centers rather than their good numbers being from defense against other positions and driving. It'll be interesting, though. Happ is 6'10" 235# and shoots free throws at 55%. Haas is 7'2" 290# and if you foul him he shoots from the stripe at 78%.
Thanks for the notes, ELA. I think I was perhaps underestimating the ability they have to defend centers rather than their good numbers being from defense against other positions and driving. It'll be interesting, though. Happ is 6'10" 235# and shoots free throws at 55%. Haas is 7'2" 290# and if you foul him he shoots from the stripe at 78%.Yeah, Purdue will be able to bomb away on MSU, I have no doubts there. Happ actually shot 9-11 from the stripe against MSU, so the strategy of sending him to the line when beat didn't really pay off there.
Replying to your bolded text, hopefully if they try to neutralize Haas, the fact that the other 4 members of our starting five shoot 3PT at rates of .404, .448, .462 and .506 (with our 6th man off the bench at .408) will help push Purdue over the top. Purdue's offense is to isolate Haas down low, space the floor, and force you to pick your poison.
As I heard someone suggest, the Purdue offense is two Ents dunking while an army of Legolas and the elves shoot high-arcing arrows in from long range :)
Nebraska debuts in Lunardi's latest Bracketology as the 8th team out. Maryland no longer listed though. Purdue, MSU and UM hold as 1, 2 and 8 seeds, OSU down from a 3 to a 4For all the complaining about the refs, I really think it was the B1G schedulers that did in the Terrapins. If you look at their rpi sheet from the worldwide leader (http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/rpi/_/sort/RPI/teamId/120), they really only have the one bad loss (at Indiana) and even that wasn't terrible. It was a road game and decided by a single possession. Maryland's problem is on the other side of things, they have a critical shortage of quality wins. According to ESPN, their only quality wins were over RPI-24 Butler on November 15 and RPI-88 Bucknell on November 18. In the nearly three months since then they haven't beaten a team in the top-100.
Maryland isn't going to win outWell obviously!
the Refs won't allow it
Well obviously!this is elementary......
Nebraska has a similar problem.
That isn't great and it is why they probably have to win out. A loss to Maryland wouldn't be terrible but it would deprive them of a much needed quality win and losses in any of their other remaining games would be problematic.
Well obviously!Amazing analysis,as usual.
Nebraska has a similar problem. Per the worldwide leader's RPI sheet for them (http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/rpi/_/sort/RPI/teamId/158), their only RPI top-50 win was their 20 point home win over Michigan. Their only other top-100 win was their win over Boston College way back in November.
Similar to Maryland, the Cornhuskers only have one bad loss, in this case a one possession road loss to #105 Penn State. The problem is that most of their quality opponents have been on the road. Nebraska's only home games against RPI top-100 teams were the wins over Michigan and Boston College and that one point loss to Kansas. Other than that, they have:Much like Maryland, Nebraska doesn't have a lot of chances to improve things. They are:
- a 12 point road loss to #8 Purdue
- a 5 point road loss to #22 Ohio State
- a 29 point road loss to #23 Michigan State
- a 10 point road loss to #27 Creighton
- a 9 point neutral site loss to #69 UCF
- a 23 point road loss to #91 St. Johns
Thus, even if they win out, they'll be:
- 0-4 against the RPI top-25 with no games left.
- 1-5 against the RPI top-50 with no games left.
- 2-7 against the RPI top-100 with only #56 Maryland left.
- 7-8 against the RPI top-150 with Maryland, #105 Penn State, #117 Indiana, and #120 Minnesota left. Their other two remaining games are against #151 Illinois and #191 Rutgers.
That isn't great and it is why they probably have to win out. A loss to Maryland wouldn't be terrible but it would deprive them of a much needed quality win and losses in any of their other remaining games would be problematic.
- 0-4 against the top-25.
- 1-5 against the top-50.
- 3-7 against the top-100.
- 11-8 against the top-150.
Weren't the Big Ten refs supposed to put Wisconsin in the CFB Playoffs by handing them the Big Ten Ccg on a silver platter?I wish, but it turned out OK. Pounding Miami into submission on their home field was very rewarding.
I wish, but it turned out OK. Pounding Miami into submission on their home field was very rewarding.both Big Reds understand this
OSU would have had a better chance at making the playoffs with another 59-0 vs a narrow victory.Exactly. It was obvious at the time that a Wisconsin victory would have gotten them in. Based on the committee's infamous "very little separation" comment it appeared that it didn't matter because the winner was in either way. In retrospect there were only two ways for a B1G team to get in:
An undefeated Wisconsin would have been a lock for the playoffs.
The outcome of the Big Ten Ccg was the worst possible scenario, with regards to getting a team into the playoffs.
Need to keep IU off the line. If not for FTs, I'm not sure they'd have double digits at the half.Hoosiers are 6-35 from the floor, but 10-12 from the line.
Need to keep IU off the line. If not for FTs, I'm not sure they'd have double digits at the half.Hoosiers are 6-35 from the floor, but 10-12 from the line.
Hoosiers are 6-35 from the floor, but 10-12 from the line.And they are 60% in Big Ten play. Joining Rutgers and Michigan as teams who can only hit FTs against us.
Bucks survive behind 35 points and 13 rebounds from Keita Bates-DiopHad to lock up Big Ten POTY today, if there was any remaining doubt.
6 fouls, first 4 minutes of the second half....shade your eyes
Nothing to see here.
6 fouls, first 4 minutes of the second half....This is the thing about complaining about fouls, the one thing you see is always the one thing that gets you irked. Were there some fouls down the stretch I feel weren't called? Probably. Could I point out UW only got to the damn line 11 times? Yep.
Nothing to see here.
Wisconsin didn't have time to go for 2 there, but Maryland almost bailed him out by not letting him have itYeah, this UW team is WAY too young for its own good. Davison will be awesome, but have to know better.
Yeah, this UW team is WAY too young for its own good. Davison will be awesome, but have to know better.Yeah, usually college kids mess it up the other way, launching ill advised threes way too early.
I wonder if the emphasis on quick 2s and extending the game sometimes is too much. If you need a 3, sometimes just get the damn 3.
Ohio State continued this weekend's trend of the B1G's better teams struggling with, but ultimately beating lesser opponents.More of the same in the Maryland/Wisconsin game.
"but their OOC isn't as good as Maryland's"FWIW, I meant in terms of record not SoS. According to the worldwide leader Maryland's non-conf SoS ranks #197 but Indiana's is almost as bad at #193. The difference, and the reason that I said Indiana's wasn't as good is that IU went 7-5 while Maryland went 11-2. Furthermore, Maryland's OOC losses were both to decent teams and not at home (St. Bonaventure-neutral, @Cuse). Indiana's OOC losses included ISU and FtWayne both at home.
What are phrases I didn't expect to hear in 2018, Alex.
Interesting that this game is on BTN.Annoying that this game is on BTN. A game this big should have been somehow pulled back up onto ESPN.
We know Vincent Edwards has battled the flu as well, and his last two games have shown it.Edwards was 0-13 in the past three games from 3-pt land (0-6 against IU, 0-3 against Maryland, and 0-4 against Rutgers). If he shoots his typical 40 to 50%, the IU game goes from a 74-67 grind to a 80-67 blowout. The Maryland game goes from 75-67 to an 78-67 victory, and the Rutgers game goes from 78-76 to a more comfortable 84-76. They were fairly open shots too, from what I recall. I suspect his shot will improve once he is back to top condition. Hopefully he gets there by Wednesday.
Kinda depends. You can't look at that situation in a vacuum.Well I did say "extremely unlikely", not "impossible". I did that because I get what you are saying and I do recognize that it is possible. I just think that the Committee would be understandably hesitant to give half of the #1 seeds to teams from a conference that frankly isn't very good this year. I think, therefore, that in order for that to happen the committee's alternatives are going to have to be pretty weak by comparison. Ie, if it is close between a second B1G team and some other team, I think the other team will get it.
If Purdue wins the OSU game and loses a close game to MSU on Saturday, I could see MSU and Purdue switching places in the polls. From there, if Purdue and MSU win out until the BTT championship game, it might very well depend upon Xavier and Cincinnati. I kinda suspect that Kansas and Duke have another loss or two in them. If Xavier and Cincinnati drop a game or two also during that time period, it's very possible that both MSU and Purdue could end up with 1 seeds.
I'd have to look it up to be sure, but I think I saw a stat that said that in the last three weeks, Villanova, Virginia, and Purdue are 18-0 and the rest of the top 10 (teams 4 through 10) are 21-19. Point being, there is still a lot of volatility out there.
I just think that the Committee would be understandably hesitant to give half of the #1 seeds to teams from a conference that frankly isn't very good this year.The CFP committee did it.
1. | Villanova (1) | |
2. | Virginia (2) | |
3. | PURDUE (3) | |
4. | Duke (4) | |
5. | MICHIGAN STATE (6) | |
6. | Cincinnati (7) | |
7. | Kansas (5) | |
8. | Xavier (8) | |
9. | Auburn (9) | |
10. | Tennessee (12) | |
11. | Texas Tech (11) | |
12. | North Carolina (10) | |
13. | Gonzaga (16) | |
14. | West Virginia (13) | |
15. | Clemson (14) | |
16. | OHIO STATE (17) | |
17. | Saint Mary's (22) | |
18. | Arizona (18) | |
19. | Oklahoma (15) | |
20. | Creighton (24) | |
21. | Kentucky (20) | |
22. | Wichita State (19) | |
23. | MICHIGAN (-) | |
24. | Seton Hall (-) | |
25. | Rhode Island (25) | |
- | ||
42. | Maryland (47) | |
55. | Penn State (68) | |
59. | Nebraska (61) | |
71. | Northwestern (77) | |
80. | Minnesota (76) | |
89. | Indiana (84) | |
97. | Illinois (114) | |
103. | Iowa (111) | |
104. | Wisconsin (96) | |
139. | Rutgers (137) | |
Edwards was 0-13 in the past three games from 3-pt land (0-6 against IU, 0-3 against Maryland, and 0-4 against Rutgers). If he shoots his typical 40 to 50%, the IU game goes from a 74-67 grind to a 80-67 blowout. The Maryland game goes from 75-67 to an 78-67 victory, and the Rutgers game goes from 78-76 to a more comfortable 84-76. They were fairly open shots too, from what I recall. I suspect his shot will improve once he is back to top condition. Hopefully he gets there by Wednesday.This could be a new way to pick winners. Sum the average PPG for each roster and compare the results. Or maybe even sum each player's max PPG, or min PPG, etc.
Hoping that we didn't peak a month early.
ESPN debut of the Bubble Watch todayTerps are on the NIT Bubble!
http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/22256337/bubble-watch-returns-competition-places-acc-sec
Eamonn Brennan was part of the firings, so they have a new guy doing it, and my main takeaway is that the new layout is horrible. Reading the comments, seems like most people can't get beyond that either.
Anyway, they have Purdue and MSU as locks, OSU as "should be in", Michigan, Maryland and Nebraska as "work to do" with no other mentions
Terps are on the NIT Bubble!I think they are using the working assumption that for now, those teams are in the tourney. I don't see anywhere where they list the bracket they are using for making that assumption though.
edit: Actually, I misread that page. Those are NCAA bubble teams. Not sure why they don't list bubble teams in their NIT seedings. Seems odd.
http://www.nycbuckets.com/current-nit-bracketology/
They are also doing a 32 team 3 vs. 3 tourney at the Final 4, with 4 man teams representing each conference. Any senior with no eligibility remaining, who isn't in the Final 4, is eligible.Should add I doubt high major conference players likely to be drafted will play, because the money you could win won't be nearly worth what you could lose with an injury. So it's possible KBD skips it. I don't think any of those other guys are projected draftees.
Trying to pick a Big Ten team...
Keita-Bates Diop, Ohio State
Vincent Edwards, Purdue
Nate Mason, Minnesota
Bryant McIntosh, Northwestern
Alternates assuming OSU or Purdue is in a Final 4
Dakota Mathias, Purdue (if OSU is)
Jae'Sean Tate, Ohio State (If Purdue is)
Scottie Lindsey, Northwestern (if PU and OSU are)
Robert Johnson, Indiana (if PU and OSU are)
They are also doing a 32 team 3 vs. 3 tourney at the Final 4, with 4 man teams representing each conference. Any senior with no eligibility remaining, who isn't in the Final 4, is eligible.Is this a real thing? That would be cool.
Trying to pick a Big Ten team...
Keita-Bates Diop, Ohio State
Vincent Edwards, Purdue
Nate Mason, Minnesota
Bryant McIntosh, Northwestern
Alternates assuming OSU or Purdue is in a Final 4
Dakota Mathias, Purdue (if OSU is)
Jae'Sean Tate, Ohio State (If Purdue is)
Scottie Lindsey, Northwestern (if PU and OSU are)
Robert Johnson, Indiana (if PU and OSU are)
Is this a real thing? That would be cool.Yes. I believe the NCAA is doing it, with money for participants.
(Who is "they"?)
Yes. I believe the NCAA is doing it, with money for participants.Shut The Door. NCAA is paying college athletes? I just saw pig flying, and Hitler just texted me saying it's getting chilly in the after life.
Shut The Door. NCAA is paying college athletes? I just saw pig flying, and Hitler just texted me saying it's getting chilly in the after life.That's why it's only open to seniors whose playing career is done.
Apparently the committee is changing how they are treating RPI now.I think that's smart. HFA [as we've discussed here] is huge in NCAABB, so it makes perfect sense to treat it as such.
Instead of record vs. Top 50, records vs. Top 100, etc.., they are breaking into quadrants and looking at your record in each quadrant...
Quadrant 1: Home 1-30, Neutral 1-50, Road 1-75
Quadrant 2: Home 31-75, Neutral 51-100, Road 76-135
Quadrant 3: Home 76-160, Neutral 101-200, Road 136-240
Quadrant 4: Home 160+, Neutral 201+, Road 241+
I think that's smart. HFA [as we've discussed here] is huge in NCAABB, so it makes perfect sense to treat it as such.I like it too. It is a little complicated to follow because the standings sites do not seem to have caught up to it yet so they aren't showing records this way but if you spend a little time at it, you can figure it out.
Grr. Now Purdue needs a win on the road against MSUOr not
Haas just literally took Tate out of the game. Slammed into him from behind at the foul line, hit him so hard he flew, and slide all the way into camera men. With Tate "knocked out" Purdue executed the 5 on 4 perfectly for an uncontested 3.What, this box out?
And the ref watched the hole thing, whistle swallowed.
Wow, that's surprising. Maybe he could teach the football program how you win a COTY award. >:(LoL!
What would have to happen for the Wildcats to win it?I think you just like seeing if I can figure this stuff out.
Penn State has one last gasp to make something of a tournament case. Winning over Maryland last night was step one. Not sure they have to win out, but can't lose @ILL for sure. PSU plays three ranked teams to end the season (@PU, OSU and M) and a very strong Nebraska team so there are chances to make a case. The utterly anemic non conference is going to really hurt them along with some losses @IU and home to Minne - missed opportunities.IMHO:
I very small possibility of PSU making the Dance is likely contingent on Penn State winning out (MAYBE could survive a loss to M or OSU, but the win at PU is necessary to show a very strong road win) as well as a good showing at MSG.
I predicted NIT for this team this year and I think that's where they will end up. I can live with that.
What, this box out?He does it a lot and never gets called.
https://twitter.com/BuckeyeVideos/status/961441640173981696
He does it a lot and never gets called.Maybe it's the refs swallowing their whistles evenly since they seem to allow people to hack the crap out of him and excuse the other team because they just think he's big enough to absorb the abuse.
Is there any human being more annoying than Dick Vitale?Considering you seemingly wind up with one of two asshats in Vitale and Dakich every time you wind up on ESPN, I wish every MSU games was on CBS, FOX, FS1 or BTN. I think Crispin is a major rising star.
On paper, MSU shouldn't lose another. But Minnesota, Northwestern and Wisconsin have more talent than they've shown. That road stretch looked killer preseason, playing the preseason 3, 4 and 5 teams, all on the road, in an 11 day span. I'm nervous one plays up to expectations and nips us. MSU has been the definition of playing to the level of their competition level recently, with 3 straight 3 point wins, over various levels of competition. (Indiana, Iowa, Purdue)A quick heads up: Wisconsin does not.
It appears as though Penn St and Northwestern have been mathematically eliminated,The other big mathematical elimination that happened this weekend is that Wisconsin's Wisconsin's amazing run of top-4 finishes officially ended. It was pretty clear a long time ago that it was going to end but going into the weekend they still could theoretically have finished 9-9 and tied Nebraska for fourth place. Now the best they can mathematically do is 8-10 and tied with PSU for sixth.
The Wolverines are done with one more M loss/OSU win.
Nebraska's Big Ten Title hopes can technically still withstand another loss, but they badly need the three teams ahead of them to simultaneously tank, down the stretch.
Team/Game | Toughest | 2nd Toughest | 2nd Easiest | Easiest |
Ohio State | at Michigan | at Indiana | at Penn State | vs Rutgers |
Michigan State | at Northwestern | at Minnesota | at Wisconsin | vs Illinois |
Purdue | at Wisconsin | at Illinois | vs Penn State | vs Minnesota |
A quick heads up: Wisconsin does not.Agree 100 percent.
Considering you seemingly wind up with one of two asshats in Vitale and Dakich every time you wind up on ESPN, I wish every MSU games was on CBS, FOX, FS1 or BTN. I think Crispin is a major rising star.Dakich doesn't have that bombastic tone of Vitale. And I feel like he actually brings a little bit more basketball knowledge to his player analysis whereas Vitale just likes to yell about how great the stars are.
Agree 100 percent.don't worry
Here is the run to the finish for the B1G Championship contenders:If Purdue doesn't get out of their funk, I could see them dropping the @Illinois or vPSU games.
I do not think anyone will disagree with me that Ohio State has the toughest finish.
Team/Game Toughest 2nd Toughest 2nd Easiest Easiest Ohio State at Michigan at Indiana at Penn State vs Rutgers Michigan State at Northwestern at Minnesota at Wisconsin vs Illinois Purdue at Wisconsin at Illinois vs Penn State vs Minnesota
Vis-a-vis the #1 seed in the BTT at MSG in NYC:
- Ohio State has the toughest remaining schedule but they also have a one game lead and they win all ties.
- Michigan State has the second toughest schedule, wins a tie with PU, but loses a tie with tOSU.
- Purdue has the easiest schedule but they lose a tie with either the Buckeyes or the Spartans.
If Purdue doesn't get out of their funk, I could see them dropping the @Illinois or vPSU games.I wouldn't read too much into their shooting Saturday afternoon. MSU sold out against the three point shooters, and was willing to let Haas have whatever he wanted inside. As good a day as he had, he really needed to be better to force MSU to come out of that defense. He had 25 points, but on 22 shots, and only had 5 rebounds and 1 block, with 2 turnovers. His 54% from the field was in worst in Big Ten play when he had more than 5 attempts. So that equals 24 possessions that ended with the ball in Haas' hands, and Purdue averaged 1.04 PPP on those. That's about 0.12 PPP below their average. May not sound like much, but Purdue is 5th in the nation in PPP, and 1.04 would be good for #123. It's rare that Purdue's offense is LESS efficient when it ends in Haas. For comparison, on Wednesday he scored only 18, but scored 1.2 PPP on possessions ending with him, actually above their season average. So while he had a big day, he was taking 2s, not 3s, and not shooting at anywhere near his typical efficiency.
It feels for Purdue like that 2nd half of the Michigan was them firing their whole wad. They haven't been the same since. They struggled in the Indiana, Maryland, and Rutgers games, and then seemed to start strong against OSU and MSU but fade late in the games. They had a double-digit lead over OSU with 10 to play and lost, and seemed to control the flow of the game against MSU for 30+ minutes but lost. Their 3pt shooting has been MIA since the Michigan game (31.6% against MSU? Not going to win like that).
Even worse, it seems like in addition to trending down offensively, their defense has suffered. I think part of this is by opponent design, trying to spread the floor as much as possible to negate the paint presence of Haas/Haarms. But Purdue was top 5 in defensive efficiency prior to the 2nd Michigan game, and they've dropped to 13th. They had been as low as 16th I think after the Maryland/Rutgers game, so maybe they're trending back in the right direction, and held both MSU and OSU under 70, but still they don't look like they did a month ago.
The team of a month ago should blow out every remaining team on the schedule. The team of the last 5 games will be lucky to escape that run 4-0.
I wouldn't read too much into their shooting Saturday afternoon. MSU sold out against the three point shooters, and was willing to let Haas have whatever he wanted inside. As good a day as he had, he really needed to be better to force MSU to come out of that defense. He had 25 points, but on 22 shots, and only had 5 rebounds and 1 block, with 2 turnovers. His 54% from the field was in worst in Big Ten play when he had more than 5 attempts. So that equals 24 possessions that ended with the ball in Haas' hands, and Purdue averaged 1.04 PPP on those. That's about 0.12 PPP below their average. May not sound like much, but Purdue is 5th in the nation in PPP, and 1.04 would be good for #123. It's rare that Purdue's offense is LESS efficient when it ends in Haas. For comparison, on Wednesday he scored only 18, but scored 1.2 PPP on possessions ending with him, actually above their season average. So while he had a big day, he was taking 2s, not 3s, and not shooting at anywhere near his typical efficiency.I would agree. I'm not sure if it was MSU's defense, or Haas just not fighting for position, but one thing I noticed is that he was consistently kept off the low block. He was setting up in the high post more often than not.
I would agree. I'm not sure if it was MSU's defense, or Haas just not fighting for position, but one thing I noticed is that he was consistently kept off the low block. He was setting up in the high post more often than not.Question: Is Hass that good a post player?
Haas is basically unstoppable (>60%) if he gets the ball on the low block. He did pretty well to still shoot 54% from the high post, and as the game wore on--and MSU proved they weren't going to double him--he started backing his man down off the dribble. But he is not as effective in the high post. Especially given the massive weight difference between Haas and the MSU defenders, I don't understand why he wasn't forcing his way down low.
That said, I honestly think it's more than just MSU's defense on the Purdue 3pt shooters. This has been a 5-game malaise. The whole team has stopped shooting at the level they're capable of, even with a lot of open looks.
big game for the Huskers tonightHuge game for both teams tonight. According to the Worldwide Leader, Nebraska:
if they want to dance
Huge game for both teams tonight.One other thing about Nebraska and Maryland that could have an impact:
Oh yeah.It is a reach and I wouldn't bet on it, but it isn't THAT big of a reach. Maryland isn't THAT far out right now. Up until the Penn State loss they were listed in Lunardi's "next four out". A win at Nebraska tonight would get them close to where they were before the Penn State loss. The home game against Rutgers should not be a problem. The last two (@NU, vsM) seem close to toss-ups to me. If they won all four they would finish 10-8/21-10. I ran that through RPI Wizard (which was difficult because I couldn't find Maryland - Apparently they are unaware that Maryland is no longer in the ACC). Anyway, I got an expected RPI of #39 out of that. That is at least on the bubble so they wouldn't need to win the BTT at MSG in NYC. I think they would need a win or two to feel comfortable, but they wouldn't need a B1G Championship.
All Maryland has to do is win tonight, win their remaining games, and the B1G tournament, all with 3 major contributors out with injuries, and they'll be in.
Got it.
Question: Is Hass that good a post player?He's a phenomenal post player. Having watched Purdue heavily over the last 4 years, he's really put together a great skill set in the post.
I get that he's effective, but I don't know how much is post skill and how much is ability to either bully the small or score in the tip-in/rebound game. And I ask this because it strikes me the first is more prone to being fed, while the second is more about game flow. Not that I don't think he's a good post, but I don't have a read on if he's the kind you just dump it down to.
(Perhaps this difference is just academic. I look forward to UW defenders fouling him as they hold on for dear life)
I didn't see a dribble, but I assume I will be informed of some egregious calls, and the like. I like how Tim Miles called his team a #1 NIT seed.There were plenty, but just one that mattered.
Huerter has done a good job defensively on Palmer.Even as a very young lad I've always thought it unwise to sit players because of foul trouble. "I'll have him sit for ten minutes to make sure I don't lose him for one minute after the outcome is no longer in question!"
So, of course, Huerter swats at the air and picks up a foul and has to sit out early in the second half.
Interesting note, Nebraska is 16-1 ATS in last 17. Doesn't help them get in the tourney.no respect in vegas
Huerter has done a good job defensively on Palmer.I know one of the refs in the game so I watched the calls closely, didn't think the refs hurt the Terps as much as MArk Turgeon's father sitting behind the bench rooting for the Big Red Huskers
So, of course, Huerter swats at the air and picks up a foul and has to sit out early in the second half.
I get they have injuries and suspensions but Minnesota is playing stupid, and you'd think at least the not ready for prime time kids would be all in trying to prove themselves with fake hustle and what not. Instead they look like they've quit.They are worse off than Maryland.
General observation: I think I'd prefer that the schedule algorithm be changed so that there are no home-only or away-only matchups anymore. I know that would mean some teams don't match up at all during the regular season, which is unbalanced. But it's *already* unbalanced, and I think it's worse as it currently is.That is an interesting idea that I have never seen thrown out there before. Usually people want to play everybody twice which is great in theory but it is not practical to have 26 conference games.
Playing tougher teams away-only and weaker teams home-only to excess can really skew the results.
They could always base it on the standings from the previous season, where the top three teams miss the bottom three teams, and what not.I like it. Kinda' like the NFL's so-called parity schedules.
They could always base it on the standings from the previous season, where the top three teams miss the bottom three teams, and what not.I would be opposed to that because some teams would practically never play. Since RU and UMD joined:
You'd also run into problems due to the fact that 14 isn't divisible by three.I think if you were going to do it it would be best to stick to a rotation and have protected rivals.
You could always cap it to where you don't miss a program for more than two years (Big Ten Tourney not-withstanding).
Of course those match ups are likely to be blowouts, so missing them wouldn't be the worst thing.
You'd also have to figure out a way to take the protection of in-state rivalries into account.
So now we are talking about a complex calculus equation, so it would be best to stick to the "rotation" I suppose.
I would be opposed to that because some teams would practically never play. Since RU and UMD joined:well, in theory, the weakening or strengthening of schedules should help in that regard and get more teams rotated into the top 3 and the bottom 3.
I had a feeling you'd be able to wrap your brain around that.
Slightly adjusted version:
- misses 11, 13, 14
- misses 10, 12, 14
- misses 9, 12, 13
- misses 8, 11, 14
- misses 7, 10, 13
- misses 7, 8, 12
- misses 5, 6, 10
- misses 4, 6, 9
- misses 3, 8, 11
- misses 2, 5, 7
- misses 1, 4, 9
- misses 2, 3, 6
- misses 1, 3, 5
- misses 1, 2, 4
That isn't perfect but it is the basic idea. It would get really complicated if you tossed in a "can't miss the same team three years in a row" rule.
Sorry, but as far as I'm concerned, some protected rivalries matter. I think it's absolutely BS that Purdue and Indiana don't play twice *every* year. They've been one-plays several times over the last decade."parity scheduling" with the slight adjustment would solve this issue
The idea that we could have years where we're not even on each other's schedule once is simply unacceptable.
Sorry, but as far as I'm concerned, some protected rivalries matter. I think it's absolutely BS that Purdue and Indiana don't play twice *every* year. They've been one-plays several times over the last decade.Certainly understandable.
The idea that we could have years where we're not even on each other's schedule once is simply unacceptable.
problem solved - someone ring Big JimThrow in the fact that you could play Friday nights, or 6 times in 7 days, with one game in NYC in Rucker Park, and you'd REALLY get his attention.
1. | Villanova (1) | |
2. | Virginia (2) | |
3. | PURDUE (3) | |
4. | Cincinnati (6) | |
5. | MICHIGAN STATE (5) | |
6. | Duke (4) | |
7. | Xavier (8) | |
8. | Texas Tech (11) | |
9. | Auburn (9) | |
10. | Kansas (7) | |
11. | North Carolina (12) | |
12. | OHIO STATE (16) | |
13. | Gonzaga (13) | |
14. | Tennessee (10) | |
15. | Clemson (15) | |
16. | West Virginia (14) | |
17. | Wichita State (22) | |
18. | Texas A&M (-) | |
19. | Rhode Island (25) | |
20. | Arizona (18) | |
21. | Saint Mary's (17) | |
22. | Creighton (20) | |
23. | TCU (-) | |
24. | Florida (-) | |
25. | Nevada (-) | |
- | ||
28. | Michigan (23) | |
44. | Maryland (42) | |
48. | Penn State (55) | |
52. | Nebraska (59) | |
73. | Northwestern (71) | |
77. | Indiana (89) | |
97. | Minnesota (80) | |
102. | Wisconsin (104) | |
108. | Iowa (103) | |
118. | Illinois (97) | |
153. | Rutgers (139) | |
Throw in the fact that you could play Friday nights, or 6 times in 7 days, with one game in NYC in Rucker Park, and you'd REALLY get his attention.(https://www.cfb51.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fsuptg.thisisnotatrueending.com%2Farchive%2F29299509%2Fimages%2F1388978255938.jpg&hash=1807484576e180612e9abd06a0f95829)
How does Purdue not drop after losing 2 games? I was shocked to see they have the #1 seed when the NCAA released their top 16.I've noticed that polls/seedings have slowly morphed into power ratings. If somebody has concluded that Purdue is a #1 seed, the modern tendency seems to be to ignore losses. That's a big change from most of my fanhood.
ELA ... loved your comment about 6 games in 7 days would get big Jim on board. Are we going to have this bs Friday/ Monday crap next year with FS1?
EAST | |||
1 | Villanova | ||
16 | Nicholls/Savannah State | ||
. | Pittsburgh | ||
8 | Florida State | ||
9 | Houston | ||
. | |||
5 | Wichita State | ||
12 | UL Lafayette | ||
. | Boise | ||
4 | West Virginia | ||
13 | Vermont | ||
. | |||
3 | Auburn | ||
14 | UC Santa Barbara | ||
. | Dallas | ||
6 | TCU | ||
11 | NM State | ||
. | |||
7 | Butler | ||
10 | Baylor | ||
. | Detroit | ||
2 | MICHIGAN STATE | ||
15 | Charleston | ||
. | |||
WEST | |||
1 | Cincinnati | ||
16 | Wagner | ||
. | Nashville | ||
8 | Louisville | ||
9 | Missouri | ||
. | |||
5 | Arizona | ||
12 | Kansas State/PENN STATE | ||
. | Boise | ||
4 | Gonzaga | ||
13 | South Dakota State | ||
. | |||
3 | North Carolina | ||
14 | Montana | ||
. | Wichita | ||
6 | Saint Mary's | ||
11 | Middle Tennessee | ||
. | |||
7 | Nevada | ||
10 | Virginia Tech | ||
. | Dallas | ||
2 | Texas Tech | ||
15 | Canisius | ||
. | |||
SOUTH | |||
1 | Virginia | ||
16 | Harvard/Grambling | ||
. | Charlotte | ||
8 | Kentucky | ||
9 | Seton Hall | ||
. | |||
5 | Rhode Island | ||
12 | Loyola(Ill) | ||
. | San Diego | ||
4 | Tennessee | ||
13 | East Tennessee State | ||
. | |||
3 | Kansas | ||
14 | Northern Kentucky | ||
. | Wichita | ||
6 | Florida | ||
11 | Syracuse | ||
. | |||
7 | MICHIGAN | ||
10 | Alabama | ||
. | Nashville | ||
2 | Xavier | ||
15 | Bucknell | ||
. | |||
MIDWEST | |||
1 | PURDUE | ||
16 | UNC Asheville | ||
. | Detroit | ||
8 | Arizona State | ||
9 | Miami | ||
. | |||
5 | Texas A&M | ||
12 | MARYLAND/UCLA | ||
. | San Diego | ||
4 | Clemson | ||
13 | Buffalo | ||
. | |||
3 | OHIO STATE | ||
14 | Belmont | ||
. | Pittsburgh | ||
6 | Creighton | ||
11 | Texas | ||
. | |||
7 | Oklahoma | ||
10 | Arkansas | ||
. | Charlotte | ||
2 | Duke | ||
15 | Florida Gulf Coast | ||
you sure do ask a lot of questions and by doing that, keep Medina busyMedina is indeed very generous with his analytical brain.
What would have to happen for OSU and Michigan to occupy the same branch of the bracket?At this point there are still a whole bunch of possibilities for that, I'll just give you the most likely:
How does Purdue not drop after losing 2 games? I was shocked to see they have the #1 seed when the NCAA released their top 16.Bracket projections are built on resumes.
ELA ... loved your comment about 6 games in 7 days would get big Jim on board. Are we going to have this bs Friday/ Monday crap next year with FS1?
I've noticed that polls/seedings have slowly morphed into power ratings. If somebody has concluded that Purdue is a #1 seed, the modern tendency seems to be to ignore losses. That's a big change from most of my fanhood.I think it’s more of a body of work thing. Rankings historically were highly reactionary. That seems to have dropped off. The top-16 release also seemed to have an effect.
I still can't believe Virginia lost on Saturday and yet rose to #1 in the polls on Monday...
Thanks Medina.You are welcome.
Since that scenario doesn't require an OSU loss to Michigan, it is the scenario that I will be pulling for.
How far in advance does ESPN set its lineup for games? You'd think they would have wanted OSU/PSU over PU/UW tonight, if they had a choice, no?I don't even know that there is an order of selection anymore. But yes, most of the times and tv are set preseason.
I guess what I'm saying is that if the lineup was selected a long time ago, they are not getting what they thought they were tonight. It would take a major upset for UW to even stay in the game tonight.
How far in advance does ESPN set its lineup for games? You'd think they would have wanted OSU/PSU over PU/UW tonight, if they had a choice, no?ESPN is getting a pretty good game
I guess what I'm saying is that if the lineup was selected a long time ago, they are not getting what they thought they were tonight. It would take a major upset for UW to even stay in the game tonight.
How far in advance does ESPN set its lineup for games? You'd think they would have wanted OSU/PSU over PU/UW tonight, if they had a choice, no?Dumbass. Hehehe.
I guess what I'm saying is that if the lineup was selected a long time ago, they are not getting what they thought they were tonight. It would take a major upset for UW to even stay in the game tonight.
As I said, three of the last four on the road, against teams with underachieving talent still makes me nervous. Evanston and Madison are still going to be a bear.Still not apt for Wisconsin.
Sounds like this FBI investigation is going to take down a ton of teams. Seen 100 schools thrown around by Doyle. My guess is that includes players talking money from shoe companies outside any sort for school knowledge. I doubt we get 100 smoking guns linking head coaches, or even assistants, or really even players to schools. I think we might see a ton of kids immediately ineligible.I read on Yahoo Sports that timing and how it all trickles out (or is just released) will be key.
He's a phenomenal post player. Having watched Purdue heavily over the last 4 years, he's really put together a great skill set in the post.Meant to reply to this earlier, but thanks for the nuanced writeup. After reading, I pulled up a couple games and locked in on him. Unsurprisingly, the sense I had was dead wrong.
As I've said, if he gets the ball on the low block, it's over. If he's single-covered, that ball is going in the basket. [He's shooting about 62% on the year]. He can turn either direction, he's got a lot of spin moves, and is good with the little hook shot with either hand. And it's not just "bullying a smaller center". He plays fine against other big guys.
If you decide double him, he's become very good at feeling the pressure and understanding the offense, so he's going to pass out to an open shooter. And Purdue's got a lot of those.
That wasn't true a few years ago. He was hesitant in the post, had a tendency to bring the ball down before making his move, and didn't have good ability to pass out of the double-team. So he was responsible for an incredible amount of turnovers. But he's cleaned up that part of his game.
As I mentioned earlier, he's got deficits. MSU kept him off the low block on Saturday, forcing him to play from the high post. He still did alright (shot 54%), but it's not his ideal game. Any time prior to this year, the idea that he was going to back someone down off the dribble was basically a recipe for a turnover. So I was happy to see that not be the case Saturday, but it's not his comfort zone and his efficiency showed it. He's actually not that good of a rebounder, which is surprising for someone who is 7'2", so yeah, the rebound/tip-in isn't where he's creating his stats. And defensively he's a liability. He can defend traditional centers, but he doesn't have the lateral quickness to defend an athletic center, and is useless away from the basket against a stretch 5 like Wagner.
But offensively, he's an amazingly efficient post player. He's got all the moves, and as I said, unless you're able to force him off the low block like MSU did [and which would likely have resulted in a lot more fouls called on another court], you either are letting him score or doubling him and letting a shooter have a wide open look.
They aren't typical Wisconsin, but they have more talent than their record.It's an interesting question actually, and sort of comes down to how you define "talent." Like if if a high three-star we know hasn't and won't develop counts as talent, they might. If we're saying, this team has the ability to reasonably play better than it has for long stretches, probably not.
Sounds like this FBI investigation is going to take down a ton of teams. Seen 100 schools thrown around by Doyle. My guess is that includes players talking money from shoe companies outside any sort for school knowledge. I doubt we get 100 smoking guns linking head coaches, or even assistants, or really even players to schools. I think we might see a ton of kids immediately ineligible.Article also suggest 1/2 of the 16 teams that were discussed as the top 4 seeds should be worried...
They aren't typical Wisconsin, but they have more talent than their record.BaB answered pretty thoroughly above, but this is just not true.
Boy, Penn State really has OSU's number this year.I really don't get it. Ohio State has played Iowa and Penn State twice and every other B1G team once each. Against the 12 B1G teams not named Penn State the Buckeyes are 13-0 with two wins over Iowa and one each over the other 11. Against Penn State the Buckeyes are 0-2. For their part, Penn State is 2-0 against Ohio State and 7-6 against everybody else.
Date | Won | @/v | Lost |
4-Dec | UW | @ | PSU |
6-Jan | IU | @ | MN |
11-Jan | IA | @ | ILL |
13-Jan | M | @ | MSU |
15-Jan | MN | @ | PSU |
23-Jan | NU | @ | MN |
25-Jan | PSU | @ | tOSU |
1-Feb | NU | @ | UW |
5-Feb | IU | @ | RU |
7-Feb | tOSU | @ | PU |
8-Feb | UW | @ | ILL |
11-Feb | M | @ | UW |
15-Feb | UW | vs | PU |
even though the ball is roundI get that, I just threw the 13-0 vs 7-6 against the rest of the league in there to make it abundantly clear that Ohio State is a much better team. In spite of that Penn State has now defeated Ohio State twice and I'm not sure if it is:
basketball doesn't always make sense
upsets happen
BaB answered pretty thoroughly above, but this is just not true.Well, with Wisconsin, I don't really care about stars. Like I said, they aren't typical Wisconsin, but there is enough there that they should at least be an NIT team.
The entire 2015 class is essentially a bust - even 4* Pritzl and 3* Ivarson. Wildly inconsistent and would not be playing as much as they are had King and Trice not gone down early in the season.
2016 was Trice and Ford. Trice (low 3* out for the season) and low 3* Ford is just OK. He's getting better.
2017 brought us 4* Davison, 4* Reuvers and 3* Kobe King (out of season).
Happ was the only 2014 recruit - a 3* kid with offers from UW-Milwaukee and UW-Green Bay.
Bo found one there, but man, did he whiff the following year. Pritzl and Ivarson have a chance to get better for next year, but I'm not holding out much hope.
Davison is a good player. He's also playing with one arm and has all season.
UW needs a really good grad transfer.
even though the ball is roundIn a week I've gone from "well, unless OSU pulls off a crazy comeback in Mackey, MSU's Big 10 title hopes probably die tonight," to "if UM can win at home over OSU, MSU controls it's own destiny to be sole Big Ten champs, and has room for error now to at least be co-champs."
basketball doesn't always make sense
upsets happen
That's close, but it's also not that simple.
- A team with a lot of good wins earlier in the season has declined due to injuries or whatever and is now losing games we don't expect them to lose, or
- A team with a lot of bad losses earlier in the season has improved due to being young or getting guys back from suspension/injury and is now winning games we don't expect them to win.
Neither is the case with Wisconsin.
I get that, I just threw the 13-0 vs 7-6 against the rest of the league in there to make it abundantly clear that Ohio State is a much better team. In spite of that Penn State has now defeated Ohio State twice and I'm not sure if it is:Maybe there is another explanation that makes sense:
- A match-up issue: I don't think so, at least not entirely.
- Just dumb luck: Upsets happen.
- Something else?
In Lunardi's latest bracketology we still have the same four teams in but there are changes in seed/location and changes with our bubble teams:I think my Nits are an awfully confident and dangerous bunch right now. They MUST get the Michigan game at home and win either at Purdue or UNL, then win minimum two in the tourney (get to the semis). Expect MSG to have a blue and white tint to it if this team comes in that hot.
- 2-seed Purdue (down from a 1-seed), still projecting in the Midwest and opening up in Detroit
- 3-seed Michigan State, in the East and opening up in Pittsburgh
- 4-seed Ohio State now in the South and opening up in Boise
- 7-seed Michigan (down from a 6-seed), now in the West and opening up in wichita
Nebraska is now the first team out.
Penn State is now among the "Next Four Out" and listed second so theoretically they are the sixth team out.
FWIW: Penn State has now won six of their last seven including a win over Maryland and two wins over Ohio State. Additionally, their only loss since mid-January is a "good" loss in East Lansing. Next they travel to West Lafayette to face a reeling Purdue team that has now lost three straight and hasn't looked like a great team since mid-January.
On January 20 Purdue was coming off of a ridiculous blowout win at Iowa and looked unstoppable. We were talking about whether or not they could go 18-0. That same day Penn State lost at Northwestern. It was their second straight loss and third in four games with really none of them being "good" losses. They looked absolutely dead in the water.
On January 21 I think most of us would have picked PU to win the 2/18 PSU@PU game by 20+. Now, I'm not so sure. I wouldn't bet on Penn State but at the same time, I'm hardly confident in Purdue.
I think my Nits are an awfully confident and dangerous bunch right now. They MUST get the Michigan game at home and win either at Purdue or UNL, then win minimum two in the tourney (get to the semis). Expect MSG to have a blue and white tint to it if this team comes in that hot.FWIW: Penn State will *PROBABLY* be playing on Thursday in the BTT at MSG in NYC, but that is NOT a lock yet. Right now they are in sixth place at 9-6, one game behind Michigan, two games behind Nebraska, and three games behind Purdue. Penn State has a chance to move up in part because their last three games are against the three teams immediately ahead of them in the standings. Furthermore, Penn State plays Michigan and Purdue only once each (upcoming) and they already beat Nebraska. Thus, Penn State would win the tiebreaker in a tie with Purdue and/or Nebraska. They would also win a tie with Michigan unless the tie was at 11-7 with Penn State losing to Michigan but winning their other two remaining games and Michigan beating Penn State but losing their other two remaining games.
If for some strange reason PSU wins out in the regular season (unlikely), I think two wins at MSG puts them in solidly. Their last 10 record would totally trump the bad losses to Minnesota and Rider at home and some other missed opportunitities.
RPI's gotta get up tho. Jumped up 12 with the win last night to 75, but it must be in the low 50's AT WORST to be considered, and I'm not sure how they get it into the 40's at this point without a bit of help.
NW games are unbearable.Can't.
That shrieking woman needs to be escorted out.
Before today if you asked me who the worst coach was in the Big Ten, Chris Collins would have been the 1st or 2nd I mentioned. That JOKE of a 2nd half clinched it.Iowa?
like the Gooopher's coach
He's living on hisexperience with Dook and hispappy's coattails.
Can't.Please tell me that's not true.
That's Elaine
(https://thumbs.gfycat.com/OldHighlevelHogget-max-1mb.gif)
Iowa?Fran and he were the 2.
Chris is OK. He's living on his experience with Dook and his pappy's coattails.
Truth be told, I'm hard pressed to name a former Dook assistant that was really good. I'll also state plainly that his old man was overrated for a long time.
Good announcer though.
I'm really hoping UW can beat Minnie tonight. A win would clinch a higher conference rank for UW than Minnie could possibly attain. Of course, this is important. Finishing higher than Minnie is always a goal - even in a historically down season like this one.UW did it. Not easy at all, but they did it.
In a week I've gone from "well, unless OSU pulls off a crazy comeback in Mackey, MSU's Big 10 title hopes probably die tonight," to "if UM can win at home over OSU, MSU controls it's own destiny to be sole Big Ten champs, and has room for error now to at least be co-champs."It is amazing how much the situation improved for the Spartans in not much over a week. Late in the PU/tOSU game it looked like Purdue would win thus keeping a two-game lead on the Spartans. Instead, Ohio State won. Then MSU beat Purdue and for good measure Purdue lost again in their next game all while Ohio State had a two game skid of their own. Now the Spartans control their own destiny for an outright Championship and their last two games are against:
Maybe there is another explanation that makes sense:Penn State very nearly winning in West Lafayette makes this theory seem a lot more plausible.
Maybe Penn State has just improved and Ohio State was just unlucky enough to get them twice late in the season. On January 20 Penn State lost their second straight, third in four, and fourth in six, and fifth in eight and just looked awful. Since then they are 6-1 with the only loss being a reasonably close (8 points) "good" loss in East Lansing. The six wins have included the two against Ohio State, a win over Maryland, and blowout wins over RU, IA, and IL. Even if you ignore the two PSU/tOSU games and just look at the other five of Penn State's last seven games they still look easily like a tournament team over that stretch.
For the first time all season I'm dreading Medina's Monday Morning Breakdown of the most likely scenarios.Before I update the tier projections, a few things have been clinched:
No way the Spartans drop one of these final two.
So there will definitely be an OSU-Michigan Big Ten Ccg?Sure, assuming that they both win all the necessary qualifying games!
:72:
1. | Virginia (2) | |
2. | Villanova (1) | |
3. | MICHIGAN STATE (5) | |
4. | Duke (6) | |
5. | PURDUE (3) | |
6. | Cincinnati (4) | |
7. | Xavier (7) | |
8. | North Carolina (11) | |
9. | Kansas (10) | |
10. | Texas Tech (8) | |
11. | Auburn (9) | |
12. | Wichita State (17) | |
13. | Gonzaga (13) | |
14. | West Virginia (16) | |
15. | Tennessee (14) | |
16. | Clemson (15) | |
17. | OHIO STATE (12) | |
18. | Arizona (20) | |
19. | Houston (-) | |
20. | Nevada (25) | |
21. | MICHIGAN (-) | |
22. | Rhode Island (19) | |
23. | TCU (23) | |
24. | Texas A&M (18) | |
25. | Kentucky (-) | |
- | ||
42. | Penn State (48) | |
50. | Maryland (44) | |
59. | Nebraska (52) | |
71. | Indiana (77) | |
86. | Northwestern (73) | |
93. | Wisconsin (102) | |
103. | Minnesota (97) | |
112. | Iowa (108) | |
113. | Illinois (118) | |
145. | Rutgers (153) | |
I don't think there's a lot of enthusiasm to cast a stone at Luvl given the state of affairs and the curtain that's about to fall and unmask a significant number of programs.Could be. I'm not worried about UW though. I mean, if they are cheating, they REALLY suck at it. The sheer number of highly ranked in-state kids who didn't pick state U lately is proof.
Well less of a defense than a gut feeling, which I qualified by pointing out why my gut feeling is built on a foundation of sand.Sand is a great base for construction.
I'd imagine the programs that would be the most itchy would be the ones that have been killing it in recruiting the last few years. Particularly if there is some sort of an Adidas connection.
Well less of a defense than a gut feeling, which I qualified by pointing out why my gut feeling is built on a foundation of sand.Why everyone should feel a little queasy is the question of player/shoe company type deals that didn't even necessarily happen to the benefit of any school, but still would have made that player ineligible. My guess is that is how the bulk of the schools are going to be "involved". There might be a lot of cases where the coaches legitimately knew nothing. I don't think we are going to see a ton of cases like Louisville/Bowen.
I'd imagine the programs that would be the most itchy would be the ones that have been killing it in recruiting the last few years. Particularly if there is some sort of an Adidas connection.
When was the last time there was an OSU/UM championship game in any sport?Last Spring (2017) OSU defeated Michigan in the CCGs for both Men's and Women's Tennis.
I remember 2006 football being the de-facto Big Ten championship game but not since, I don't believe.
Which is why seeding is so unimportant. Generally based on scheduling flukes. Would anyone rather get the 2 seed and face a 7 seed PSU right now than get the 3 and face #6 Indiana?I wouldn't say "unimportant", just that it isn't necessarily an advantage to be seeded higher. The IU/PSU example that you used here is a great one. I was thinking that when I typed up the most recent projections that have #2 Purdue likely facing red hot Penn State on Friday while #3 Ohio State likely gets Indiana. I would DEFINITELY consider that an advantage for Ohio State.
Purdue (-2): The Boilermakers's two upset losses were at home to Ohio State and at Wisconsin. Both would be upsets even if weMichigan did play vPU, and Purdue won that game. They played home/away and Purdue won both.
demoted Purdue so these just fall in the category of "it happens".
Michigan (+2): One of Michigan's upsets (@MSU) would be an upset no matter what. The other (@UW) would not be an upset if we promoted Michigan. There are six potential games in which there is a difference between tier-2 and tier-3 (home games against the two tier-1 teams and road games against the four tier-4 teams). Of those:
- Michigan does not play four (vMSU, vPU, @IU, @MN)
- Michigan won one (@UW)
- Michigan lost one (@NU)
I wouldn't say "unimportant", just that it isn't necessarily an advantage to be seeded higher. The IU/PSU example that you used here is a great one. I was thinking that when I typed up the most recent projections that have #2 Purdue likely facing red hot Penn State on Friday while #3 Ohio State likely gets Indiana. I would DEFINITELY consider that an advantage for Ohio State.Tough to say, really. Purdue and Indiana are rivals and only played once, with Purdue winning. You think Indiana wouldn't come out with extra motivation to try to not only get revenge but knock Purdue out?
Seems like it might be former NBA agent Andy Miller opening his books for this FBI probe. A quick look at his company (ASM) client list, the only former Big Ten player he currently has signed is AJ Hammons.I also saw that he had Troy Williams from Indiana.
Didn't Watkins miss most of the game with an injury?He did. He also missed most of the Purdue game with his usual foul trouble.
I'm really hoping UW can get a win in Evanston tonight and keep building for next season. The younger players have shown a lot of grit lately, and they have been overcoming the Hack-a-Happ strategy that teams have been using.Been VERY impressed with how Wisconsin has handled this season. It's bound to happen, everyone has this kind of year. It's like Michigan State football in 2016 - how do you bounce back? Well, we saw that in full in 2017. That's the culture/program that's been developed.
If they can continue to hit the outside shots into tonight, they could be in good position to steal one in Evanston.
It's been kinda fun to watch lately, which is great, because it wasn't fun a month ago.
Michigan did play vPU, and Purdue won that game.My mistake. I knew that and just forgot it when I typed that up, too much stuff going on.
You can't slide one by Medina very often.LoL, not really. I have a spreadsheet that I use. Each year at the beginning of the season I place that year's schedule into it then add in the projected results based on the tiers.
Dude has all 14 schedules memorized, as well as the Big Ten standings, his tier system, and all of the tiebreakers.
Steel trap mind.
I'd have to have about 20 tabs open to figure all this stuff out. He just runs the algorithm through his head. Like a computer.
Miles Bridges' name getting tossed around in that FBI case. There is an expense report of the agent floating around, that includes expenses like thousands of dollars in loans to variosu players. An "advance" of 400 bucks listed toI think you have to sit him this weekend until you learn more.
]Miles Bridges' mom."
Not sure what that will amount to.
https://sports.yahoo.com/exclusive-federal-documents-detail-sweeping-potential-ncaa-violations-involving-high-profile-players-schools-103338484.html
https://sports.yahoo.com/exclusive-federal-documents-detail-sweeping-potential-ncaa-violations-involving-high-profile-players-schools-103338484.htmlYeah, there were a few names listed connected to big dollar amounts
Excerpts...
...There’s potential impermissible benefits and preferential treatment for players and families of players at Duke, North Carolina, Texas, Kentucky, Michigan State, USC, Alabama and a host of other schools. The documents link some of the sport’s biggest current stars – Michigan State’s Miles Bridges (https://sports.yahoo.com/ncaab/players/137369/), Alabama’s Collin Sexton and Duke’s Wendell Carter –...
Someone mentioned Diamond Stone, up-thread.
...Diamond Stone, at the time a freshman at Maryland, received $14,303 according to the documents....
I don't know what it matters for his eligibility, but I do hope Miles didn't know, if for no other reason than the level of stupidity involved in passing up millions of dollars to come back to school, to throw it all away over $400.This is what I was thinking. I have to believe he didn't know. Sometimes, mama doesn't know best. I'm chalking it up to that until I see more detail.
This is what I was thinking. I have to believe he didn't know. Sometimes, mama doesn't know best. I'm chalking it up to that until I see more detail.I still think you have to sit him. Generally when it's not a booster as the source of the impermissible benefits, the school doesn't retroactively forfeit games. But if they play him beyond the report, and he turns out to be ineligible, then they ding you. Given the timing, I wonder if this is a case where MSU appeals the NCAA to force them to hand down a punishment now, so they know. I seem to recall some other school doing that in this type of case. A.J. Green was suspended 3 games I think for selling his jersey for $1,000. 5 games for the OSU tattoos? Granted, on the other hand, Bowen took thousands, and played the whole year, and Cam Newton did too, under the "my parents did it without my knowledge" argument. And that was involving substantial money. I think to be safe, for now he has to sit.
I still think you have to sit him. Generally when it's not a booster as the source of the impermissible benefits, the school doesn't retroactively forfeit games. But if they play him beyond the report, and he turns out to be ineligible, then they ding you. Given the timing, I wonder if this is a case where MSU appeals the NCAA to force them to hand down a punishment now, so they know. I seem to recall some other school doing that in this type of case. A.J. Green was suspended 3 games I think for selling his jersey for $1,000. 5 games for the OSU tattoos? Granted, on the other hand, Bowen took thousands, and played the whole year, and Cam Newton did too, under the "my parents did it without my knowledge" argument. And that was involving substantial money. I think to be safe, for now he has to sit.Well, the timing of this really sucks for MSU, for obvious reasons. If his mother actually did this without his knowledge, then shame on her for wrecking her son's experience and hurting MSU, the coaches and all the players at the same time.
Well, the timing of this really sucks for MSU, for obvious reasons. If his mother actually did this without his knowledge, then shame on her for wrecking her son's experience and hurting MSU, the coaches and all the players at the same time.And for not coming forward when given the chance. This story broke in September. I think you could have remedied a lot of it then, by saying you took $400 from an agent the year before. If it's not 10s of thousands of dollars, and I think something could have been done, if you had been proactive about it. But yes, if she did it without his knowledge, that's selfish and awful, and I can't imagine how he feels this morning, knowing his mother did that to him. If he did know, he's dumb for doing it, and even dumber for coming back for his sophomore year.
I've learned to never underestimate the poor decision making ability of an 18 year oldOr an 18 year old's mother...
I know it's naive and understand that college sports is a business, but I'm going to be very disappointed in UMD if it's true that Diamond Stone got paid.You can be disappointed in Stone, but these were agents, not boosters, so I'd have a hard time being disappointed in Maryland. They seemingly had no ties to programs. Hell, Bridges mom got $400, but Josh Jackson, who MSU was favored in for a while, got his mom $1,700, and he went to Kansas. I don't think any of (at least this portion) was tied to steering players to schools like in a booster scandal. This is more about trying to steer guys to an agency once they reach the NBA. His notes next to those big money guys reflect that. Things like "Bad Loan" and "Not signing with us, working out repayment plan."
These seem like weird amounts, as in, really low, for players/programs to be taking this kind of risk. My guess is that
a) it's bogus
or
b) these amounts are only the tip of the iceberg.
You can be disappointed in Stone, but these were agents, not boosters, so I'd have a hard time being disappointed in Maryland. They seemingly had no ties to programs. Hell, Bridges mom got $400, but Josh Jackson, who MSU was favored in for a while, got his mom $1,700, and he went to Kansas. I don't think any of (at least this portion) was tied to steering players to schools like in a booster scandal. This is more about trying to steer guys to an agency once they reach the NBA. His notes next to those big money guys reflect that. Things like "Bad Loan" and "Not signing with us, working out repayment plan."Ah, okay. Thanks, Adam. I guess I'm not up to speed on this topic.
Now if more shoe company stuff comes out, that's where things could get ugly.
What a dud, Penn State. What a total lack of preparation, Patrick Chambers. What a lack of in-game adjustments when Michigan was making, oh I don't know, 75% of their 3pt shots.see UNL and their Illinois loss... at least Michigan is legit.
Never again should anyone around State College mutter why people don't attend PSU hoops games. Just when excitement is brewing, when national pundits are talking, you come up with THAT performance?
Anyone seen Mike Watkins the past week? Anyone? Buehler? Buehler?
Shaking my head.....
So the question is not are agents giving kids money, but are agents directing kids to certain schools... what relationships do they have? I think that is where a school could get in trouble.Well that's where schools themselves could be in trouble.
You could make the argument that the 10 seed has an easier road to hoe than the 8 and 9 seeds if things play out to projections.It depends on a lot of things but you certainly could be right. I'd rather play IU than PSU right now.
On WisconsinGo take a shower.
Michigan is the best team in the conference right now. Peaking at the right timeIf Simpson’s free throw shooting stays at the more recent level he has bumped up to and they get good production out of MAAR and Robinson they could be a tough out in the tourney.
I don't think UW has the horses to compete with MSU, regardless of circumstance. They don't even have a true point guard on the available roster. They are both out for the season.
I think I would also prefer Wisconsin be a mediocre 9 seed NCAA team. Instead, they have no postseason, and they would love nothing more than to ruin this for MSU. Kind of like 2006 when OSU upset Illinois in the finale to ruin their undefeated season.
So Gard going with the same game plan that put them in a huge hole last time. Force feeding Happ and getting nothing. They played well last time once they abandoned thatI’m not watching, but that’s kind of always the gameplan.
There are times when MSU's half court offense is tough to watch, but this isn't one of those days. They are getting themselves a ton of good looks, and just missing everything.1-11 now.
Lol, last time a defender put a body on a guy like that, they called the offensive player for travelling for receiving the hip check.
Davidson is unconscious right now ... tough kid coming right back in after popping his shoulder out.He's been doing that, and playing out of position, all season.
The gophers screwed the pooch. Could have had a freshman backcourt of Davison and McKinley Wright. Instead they went after the NY street ballerGophers are all flash and no dash. Eventually they'll get it figured out up there and get some dash, but only when they lose the flash ('Lil Rickey and 'Lil Peej).
He's been doing that, and playing out of position, all season.I kind of wonder where this string ends.
We need medina on here for game by game updates today.I have had a busy day but here is where we are now (as I type this Iowa has about a 20 point lead on NU so I'm going to assume that it holds up):
I have had a busy day but here is where we are now (as I type this Iowa has about a 20 point lead on NU so I'm going to assume that it holds up)In the time it took me to type that up the NU/Iowa game has closed to now only an 11 point game. If Northwestern wins:
I kind of wonder where this string ends.I think this season of him having to play the point will serve him well and make him a much better shooting guard. He's now got that appreciation for what it takes at the college level and what I think will happen is he will be more adept at the reads and cuts moving forward.
Watching Davison, he plays like very few shooting guards of recent UW vintage. Traditionally the SG is a high-efficiency/lower-usage floor spacer who can do an extra thing here and there (Brust, Gasser, Jbo, Showalter). Davison is much more in the mold of UW points, i.e. taking the ball at the end of the clock and making something happen. The last UW SG to really do that was Flowers, and he might be the only one outside of when Devin Harris played there as a freshman. I think Hughes played some his last two years, but that was because Jordan Taylor was taking the ball a lot and in essence making Hughes more of a wing/SG.
The thing I'm interested in is, can Davison allow Trice to be a floor-spacing shooter with better passing/point skills next year? I still like Brad having the ball in his hands at the end of the clock, but the potential to do it with either Prtizel or Trice (or both) out there is interesting.
I think the Huskers are basically in a play-in game on Friday. Win and in. Lose and NIT.It might depend on who they play. If Michigan gets upset on Thursday the Huskers might need more than just a win over a non-tournament Illinois or Iowa team.
Big ten tourney. You guys wanna do the fantasy draft/game we normally do?ELA, you doing it?
ELA, you doing it?I don't think I've done that in like 5 years
Right now Lunardi has both MSU and Purdue as 2-seeds.Well either Villanova or Xavier has to lose. Then he has Virginia as a 1, and both Duke and UNC as 2s. So only one of them can win it. I think ideally Virginia just wins it, because they probably still get a 1 anyway, and that would knock Duke or UNC out.
What's the path to a 1? I assume that if the teams above us all hold serve and win their conference tournaments, I'm not sure either team manages it. But I can't imagine that all 4 current 1 seeds will do so.
MSU: They will likely face Maryland or Wisconsin, which won't add much. Then most likely face Michigan or Northwestern in the semis, and either is a solid win. Finally the odds are they'd play OSU or Purdue, and if they won the BTT they'd have gotten a pretty good win there.
I think MSU could probably get to a 1, winning the BTT, even if upsets occurred and they ended up with an easy path of, say, Wisconsin, Iowa, and then Penn State. At 31-3, they're pretty much a 1 IMHO regardless of how they get there.
Purdue: Purdue, currently at 26-5, has it harder. I think Purdue has to win the BTT, beating MSU in the process, to get a 1. I think wins over IU and OSU wouldn't quite get there if they ended up facing, say, Nebraska in the final. I think if they beat Minnesota and PSU but then faced [and beat] MSU, they have probably earned a 1. If they face IU, OSU, and MSU, and win all three, I think they're definitely a 1.
What do you guys think?
Is the Big Ten just bragging about how poorly they located the tournament with this sign?yes
https://twitter.com/TomFornelli/status/968297670346465281
Honestly, I don't think Maryland is worthy of a tournament berth even if they made it to the finals. And I don't think they'd get a berth if they did somehow get that far.Been beating this point to death. A shell of what we could have been, and even when healthy, looked lost at times.
At some point I think losses are losses, no matter how small...
I'm guessing Big East fans are trolling the sign.Yeah, I'm sure the Creighton fans are all over it.
Been beating this point to death. A shell of what we could have been, and even when healthy, looked lost at times.I know the Terps are used to being upper echelon, but take this season for what it's worth - 7 straight tourney years, one minor step back this season (NIT), let the kids get some experience and I think they will be very good again next year.
If we can keep all the underclassmen, with the transfer, and what is coming in, we should be a much better team next year.
Fairly dominant.
Been beating this point to death. A shell of what we could have been, and even when healthy, looked lost at times.Sounds about the same as Maryland's opponent tomorrow. I don't know about "dominant" though. MSU is more of that.
If we can keep all the underclassmen, with the transfer, and what is coming in, we should be a much better team next year.
Fairly dominant.
https://twitter.com/leebeeowh/status/968978138066800641LoL, that is sad but to be fair I don't think attendance for the 12/13 and 11/14 games has ever been very good. I'll report back Friday evening what the crowd looks like for the tOSU vs NU/PSU and PU vs IU/RU/MN games.
So who from this group has the best chance of pulling it off?
Need to win BTT:.
- RU
- IA
- NU
- UW
- IU
LoL, that is sad but to be fair I don't think attendance for the 12/13 and 11/14 games has ever been very good. I'll report back Friday evening what the crowd looks like for the tOSU vs NU/PSU and PU vs IU/RU/MN games.So, what was the attendance for the RU game? If any 11/14 had a chance to get butts in the seats, you'd think it was the local squad right?
UW is the best of that group.It would be seriously epic if Wisconsin somehow won the BTT and managed to extend their NCAA Tournament streak to 20 appearances.
What are Iowa's chances of pulling off the upset this afternoon, relative to Northwestern's?According to the guys in Vegas:
1. | Virginia (1) | |
2. | Villanova (2) | |
3. | Duke (4) | |
4. | MICHIGAN STATE (3) | |
5. | PURDUE (5) | |
6. | Kansas (9) | |
7. | North Carolina (8) | |
8. | Cincinnati (6) | |
9. | Xavier (7) | |
10. | Auburn (11) | |
11. | Gonzaga (13) | |
12. | Texas Tech (10) | |
13. | Wichita State (12) | |
14. | West Virginia (14) | |
15. | Tennessee (15) | |
16. | OHIO STATE (17) | |
17. | MICHIGAN (21) | |
18. | Clemson (16) | |
19. | Kentucky (25) | |
20. | TCU (23) | |
21. | Arizona (18) | |
22. | Rhode Island (22) | |
23. | Houston (19) | |
24. | Butler (-) | |
25. | Nevada (20) | |
- | ||
46. | Penn State (42) | |
52. | Maryland (50) | |
53. | Nebraska (59) | |
76. | Indiana (71) | |
86. | Wisconsin (93) | |
97. | Northwestern (86) | |
107. | Minnesota (103) | |
108. | Illinois (113) | |
111. | Iowa (112) | |
156. | Rutgers (145) | |
The problem is multi-level.That sounds fine. Some smaller conferences do it, and I don't mind.
Yes, NYC is a problem for a number of reasons. You have to fly, hotels are expensive. At least Chicago only has the 2nd part of that problem, Indy has neither.
But adding the 5th day is going to be a problem no matter what. Nobody is taking an extra day off to go to those, and no matter where you put it, those fan bases aren't going to worry about it, their teams had terrible years. They are probably just rooting for the season to be over. I think they could have played those games on campus last night, and you'd have had problems.
Speaking of that, what about it? End the conference on Saturday (no Sunday games the final weekend) and play those play in games Monday or Tuesday on campus of the #11 and #12 seeds? The start the tourney in earnest on Thursday as a 12 team tourney?
Speaking of that, what about it? End the conference on Saturday (no Sunday games the final weekend) and play those play in games Monday or Tuesday on campus of the #11 and #12 seeds? The start the tourney in earnest on Thursday as a 12 team tourney?I am not in favor for three reasons:
Hawkeyes are lookin' alive.The Hawkeyes couldn't quite pull off the upset but they sure gave Michigan a heck of a scare.
Well if Aleem Ford is going to start randomly scoring...He does that sometimes. It’s weird, he came in as this athletic seeming wing type.
What are the odds?I thought Rutgers over whoever they played on Wednesday was 14 over 11.
Every single game so far in this tournament, the team with the odd number seed has won. The only exception was the IU / Rutgers game which had two even number seeds playing.
Final four teams playing are the 1, 3, 5, and 7 seeds.
MSU's lack of perimeter options is owefully apparent during Langford's extended slump.And UM overplayed Winston, and gave Langford open looks all afternoon, and dared him to shoot them out of that strategy. 1-8 from the floor later, I'd say he didn't do that.
He had a good game on Senior Day against Illinois, but otherwise over his last 5 games, he's averaging about 5.5 ppg on 35ish% shooting
If MSU donates $40 to charity...I think we both know the answer is no.
...do they get moved on to the finals over Michigan?
PSU showing they are a very average team. How did they beat OSU all three times???Sometimes teams are just matchup nightmares.
Maybe OSU is also very average and played lights against the top 2 teams in the conference?
PSU showing they are a very average team. How did they beat OSU all three times???Ehh, per KenPom, PSU is No. 30, OSU is 16. It's a little weird, but not necessarily a sign of much.
Maybe OSU is also very average and played lights against the top 2 teams in the conference?
Happ not playing any waiting game, said he's testing the NBA waters but if he doesn't get a 1st round grade, he's coming back. I can't see him being a first round pick, he's not what NBA GMs are infatuated with. That said, I could see him having a long career in the right spot. He could be a good fit in a rotation at the end of the first round on a contender that isn't necessarily looking for the huge upside that he doesn't provide. I don't know what the draft looks like, but I can't see a rebuilding team taking him really at any point.There was a lot floating around, so I'm guessing he just wanted everything out there.
He also said there's not a chance he seeks a grad transfer. I know those rumors had been floated, not sure how reputably.
Ehh, per KenPom, PSU is No. 30, OSU is 16. It's a little weird, but not necessarily a sign of much.I was looking at the 9-9 record for PSU and calling them average.
This should clinch a 4 seed and a trip to Detroit if the tournament committee doesn't screw them over. Even if the 4/5 seed teams in other power 5 leagues do well in their conference tournaments that should still be the case (eg. Tennessee, Clemson & West Virginia).4 seed, yes. Detroit? They'd have to jump 2 out of 3 of MSU, Purdue and Xavier, or have the committee decide to send Purdue and Xavier to Cincinnati or Pittsburgh as being only marginally farther than Detroit for them
Apparently Mark Smith is transferring from Illinois. Wonder how much of a difference he would have made if he had stuck with his silent to MSU. Underwood seems like a good coach, but a big personality. If that's not your style, I could see it getting old. Remember he had a very short recruitment. He was a big time baseball prospect, committed to Missouri, who blew out his arm and had only mid-major basketball offers. Had a big senior year and got late offers from MSU, Illinois, Louisville and the like. So between how quick everything happened, and Underwood coming in late, there probably was very little relationship built up there. He commitment was supposedly 100% about playing close to home.I think Illinois will be seeing a handful of transfers today or this week. If Mark Smith wants to be a PG, it is probably not going to happen at Illinois. John Groce and Underwood are clearly different types of guys with different coaching styles. If Mark Smith isn't a fit with that style, best of luck to him somewhere else. He was a liability on defense and lacked confidence in his offense.
UNL is not going... they played like they wanted a couple more home games, and that is what they'll get in the NIT.A) They've had 4 losses, but three of those were to top 15 teams, so I'm not too worried. The fourth was to a decent Wisconsin team that gave MSU everything they could handle.
IMO, Purdue is not a #2 seed. They're not the same team as a month ago. Something is slightly off with them.. perhaps some unknown injuries? Maybe teams figured them out? I guess I'm still wondering why everyone has them so high when they've seem to have peaked a month ago...
PSU showing they are a very average team. How did they beat OSU all three times???The conference being weak makes it really tough to tell. Ohio State finished 15-3 but did so with only three high quality wins:
Maybe OSU is also very average and played lights against the top 2 teams in the conference?
4 seed, yes. Detroit? They'd have to jump 2 out of 3 of MSU, Purdue and Xavier, or have the committee decide to send Purdue and Xavier to Cincinnati or Pittsburgh as being only marginally farther than Detroit for themI was going to point out the same thing. As I see it, Michigan has almost no chance at playing their first weekend NCAA games in Detroit. The simple fact is that there are going to be way too many Eastern teams relative to Eastern first weekend sites.
I've watched a few more BigEast games of late... I've enjoyed their basketball this year. Some quality teams in the BE. I'll probably watch their tourney over all the rest.I've loved FOX's coverage of the Big East the last few years. It was my go to tourney if the Big Ten game wasn't interesting, and with the Big Ten off, I assume I'll watch quite a bit of that league.
bama is not that good. I'd predict UNL on a neutral court.Lotta football helmet power sitting on his 12 team bubble. Bama, Texas, USC, Nebraska, Notre Dame, Penn State, UCLA. Hell, even Boise State has Group of 5 helmet power.
Thanks for including UNL, but I think they're off the bubble. A lot can happen this week, but if I was objective, PSU is in over UNL.
1. | Virginia (1) | |
2. | Villanova (2) | |
3. | Duke (3) | |
4. | Cincinnati (8) | |
5. | PURDUE (5) | |
6. | MICHIGAN STATE (4) | |
7. | Xavier (9) | |
8. | Kansas (6) | |
9. | North Carolina (7) | |
10. | MICHIGAN (17) | |
11. | Gonzaga (11) | |
12. | Auburn (10) | |
13. | Tennessee (15) | |
14. | Texas Tech (12) | |
15. | Wichita State (13) | |
16. | West Virginia (14) | |
17. | OHIO STATE (16) | |
18. | Clemson (18) | |
19. | TCU (20) | |
20. | Kentucky (19) | |
21. | Florida (-) | |
22. | Houston (23) | |
23. | Arizona (21) | |
24. | Nevada (25) | |
25. | Seton Hall (-) | |
- | ||
45. | Penn State (46) | |
55. | Nebraska (53) | |
56. | Maryland (52) | |
81. | Wisconsin (86) | |
84. | Indiana (76) | |
96. | Northwestern (97) | |
106. | Iowa (111) | |
113. | Illinois (108) | |
114. | Minnesota (107) | |
137. | Rutgers (156) | |
Neither are getting in. PSU is probably in 'better' shape, but they'd need epic meltdowns by ND and Syracuse today, a L'ville loss tomorrow, and losses by Okie St (vs OU), Baylor (vs WVU) and Texas (vs ISU) at the min to possibly back in.Does it help or hurt Penn State that all of their good wins came against Ohio State? Conversely, does it help or hurt Ohio State that all of their bad losses came against Penn State?
Does it help or hurt Penn State that all of their good wins came against Ohio State? Conversely, does it help or hurt Ohio State that all of their bad losses came against Penn State?I have to think, purely from a subjective look at this (and let's be honest, the committee can be quite subjective at times even by their own admission) that diversifying those wins would have been better. It simply appears PSU matches up quite well with OSU and has their number. That's it. I think showing they could have beaten a Michigan, aTm or NC State out of conference, one of the late games against Purdue, would have shown they aren't just a simple 1:1 matchup with OSU.
I mean both questions as compared to having the same record but with different opponents?
By RPI, Penn State's three best wins (by far*) are:Ohio State's three worst losses (by far^) are:
- At #21 Ohio State
- Vs #21 Ohio State (neutral court)
- Vs #21 Ohio State
- Vs #80 Penn State
- Vs #80 Penn State (neutral court)
- At #80 Penn State
Hypothetically, if Penn State had won the home game over Ohio State but lost the other two but also won:Would that be better, worse, or about the same for PSU's NCAA chances? It would have little or no impact on their RPI.
- At #15 Michigan State, and
- Vs #23 aTm (neutral court)
Similarly, hypothetically, if Ohio State had won the home and neutral court games over Penn State but also lost:Would that be better, worse, or about the same for tOSU's NCAA seed? It would have little or no impact on their RPI.
- Vs #72 Stanford (neutral court), and
- Vs #92 William&Mary
In considering this question please ignore the impact that these changes would have had on other games (ie, PSU not playing PU if they lost to tOSU in the BTT and both PSU and tOSU having different later round opponents if they won/lost preseason tournament games against aTm and Stanford. I'm simply asking how we think the committee will view the three wins / three losses. I could make a reasonable argument either way and I'm curious how the committee will view it.
*After the THREE wins over #21 tOSU, PSU's next best RPI wins were:
- Over #63 Nebraska at home.
- Over #70 Maryland at home.
- Over #95 Montana at home.
^After the THREE losses to #80 PSU, tOSU's next worst RPI losses were:
- To #45 Butler on a neutral court.
- To #30 Gonzaga on a neutral court.
- To #13 Michigan on the road.
The Jackrabbits are going to cause someone fits in the tourney. Tall, inside-out NBA prospect in Dahm, athletic guards, and an entire team that can shoot the lights out. I am assuming they’ll be a popular upset pick on the 12 or 13 line. I would hate to see Michigan as a 4 with them.I said that last year, and put my money where my mouth was, by picking them to upset Gonzaga as a 16 over a 1. First time in my life I had ever picked a 15 or a 16. Instead Gonzaga whipped them by 20.
I think Illinois will be seeing a handful of transfers today or this week. If Mark Smith wants to be a PG, it is probably not going to happen at Illinois. John Groce and Underwood are clearly different types of guys with different coaching styles. If Mark Smith isn't a fit with that style, best of luck to him somewhere else. He was a liability on defense and lacked confidence in his offense.Rumors Leron Black may do the grad transfer thing and follow him out.
I have to think, purely from a subjective look at this (and let's be honest, the committee can be quite subjective at times even by their own admission) that diversifying those wins would have been better. It simply appears PSU matches up quite well with OSU and has their number. That's it. I think showing they could have beaten a Michigan, aTm or NC State out of conference, one of the late games against Purdue, would have shown they aren't just a simple 1:1 matchup with OSU.I have a feeling that you are right. I wonder, however, how that will impact tOSU's seed. In theory, if it is a negative for PSU that they "only" beat tOSU three times rather than beating three different tournament teams then it should be a positive for tOSU that they "only" lost to the same team three times. Ie, logically you would have to choose one of the following three positions:
PSU will miss this tourney for one of two reasons:
1. Bad losses to Rider and Minne at home
2. Missed chances on the road at Purdue, home to Michigan and the Purdue game at MSG.
I believe if either would have happened (beat both teams in scenario 1, or win one of the games in scenario 2), they are in.
If your team is on the bubble Middle Tennessee didn’t do you any favors tonight.Worthless trash school anyway. :96:
Worthless trash school anyway. :96:
Really? Why? I must have missed something.
LOL. I forgot. I was too busy wallowing in Stephen F. Austin beating WVU that year.
When they beat MSU in the tourney 2 years ago.
Maryland's RPI just fell from #74 to #76 overnight, meaning MSU, Purdue and UM all lose one Quadrant 1 win, because a road win over Maryland no longer qualifies.This illustrates my main objection to this system. I don't like the hard cut-offs.
This illustrates my main objection to this system. I don't like the hard cut-offs.Yeah, that's what I don't get. The quality of wins is factored into whatever computer ranking system you use. So why throw this in on top of it?
This system effectively treats a road game against #1 as being equivalent to a road game against #75. At the same time, a road win against #75 (or 74, UMD as of yesterday) is MUCH better than a road win over #76.
We all know that beating #75 on the road is obviously NOT the same thing as beating #1 on the road. Conversely, we all know that beating #75 or #76 on the road is almost exactly the same thing.
More sophisticated computer rankings can deal with this easily by simply treating a road win over #1 as being slightly better than a road win over #2 which is slightly better than a road win over #3, etc, etc.
In a more sophisticated system the difference between beating #74 Maryland and beating #76 Maryland is negligible as it should be. In the system we have, the difference between beating #74 Maryland and beating #76 Maryland is a major issue. It shouldn't be.
FWIW:Yeah, and we constantly talk about wins over ranked at the time teams, despite what else happens to them. I remember in football, for a long time a win over a ranked Illinois team was Purdue's most recent "ranked road win". It might still be. That game was right before Illinois took a 6-game losing streak. So it's not all that big of an accomplishment, but it was a ranked win on the road, dammit!
I feel the same way when people talk about wins over "ranked teams" in football. Beating #1 is a MUCH bigger deal than beating #25 and beating #25 is essentially equivalent to beating #26 but talking of "ranked wins" treats the wins over #1 and #25 as equivalents while treating the win over #26 as equivalent to beating the worst team in FBS and/or an FCS team. Similarly, in football, the more sophisticated computer systems handle this appropriately by treating a win over #1 as slightly better than a win over #2 and a win over #2 as slightly better than a win over #3, etc.
Yeah, and we constantly talk about wins over ranked at the time teams, despite what else happens to them. I remember in football, for a long time a win over a ranked Illinois team was Purdue's most recent "ranked road win". It might still be. That game was right before Illinois took a 6-game losing streak. So it's not all that big of an accomplishment, but it was a ranked win on the road, dammit!Oh I get that but I think those are also two very different things.
The thing is that people are dumb. We like hard cutoffs, because we like to categorize things. "Beating a ranked team" means something to us emotionally, even if it's the #23 team and they drop out of the rankings the next week.
Buckeyes get a tough draw going out west in the 5/12 death matchup and then potentially facing 4 seed Gonzaga (#8 overall on KenPom). If they get through that, though, could get a pretty fun duel with Xavier.Yeah, that's really rough.
How the hell does a 19-13 Big Ten team not even make the NIT?Maryland? Wasn't there an abundance of Regular season champs that filled those at large spots?
How the hell does a 19-13 Big Ten team not even make the NIT?The selection committee forgot about them. It's hard to remember teams that don't play for over a week.
Maryland? Wasn't there an abundance of Regular season champs that filled those at large spots?There were 12.
Maybe the NIT has a wink-nod agreement with the CBA/CIT/etc to pass on all but a token Big Ten team, since they routinely big time the smaller tourneys.I don't think any P5 conferences accept CIT/CBI invites
Didn't Illinois play in one of those things recently?As far as I can tell, Colorado in 2015 is the only P5 school to play in either in the last 3 years.
Are we going to do a CFB51 bracket challenge?@jhetfield99 (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=1625) does one every year... I'm sure he can hook you up with the info.
Bummed that Michigan didn't get the Detroit region, especially compared to Sparty, but they definitely got some favorable matchups. Montana is underseeded, but they have no good non-con wins (but came close against Washington), and there are only a few halfway-decent teams in the Big Sky. I watched the replay of their championship game against Eastern Washington, and I definitely think Michigan matches up well with them..... Houston and San Diego State are dangerous but most of their best wins are at home. Michigan probably matches up better with Houston, which is a smaller team that relies more on forcing turnovers..... North Carolina would be tough, of course, but when they played in the regular season, Brooks was the starting PG and neither Livers nor Brooks were getting much playing time, nor had Teske emerged as a quality backup center. If they get past them, I think Xavier and Gonzaga are both very beatable. Michigan would almost certainly have the home court advantage in LA for those games with so many Michigan grads and fans in California.I think UM and MSU are in the same boat, that I'm not picking them to get past the Sweet 16, but I do think whoever wins those games (MSU-Duke or UM-UNC) will reach the Final 4, if not more. Those are just really bad matchups for each of them, at such an early stage.
We'll see....
Bummed that Michigan didn't get the Detroit region, especially compared to Sparty,A couple pages ago you said "This should clinch a 4 seed and a trip to Detroit if the tournament committee doesn't screw them over. Even if the 4/5 seed teams in other power 5 leagues do well in their conference tournaments that should still be the case (eg. Tennessee, Clemson & West Virginia)."
A couple pages ago you said "This should clinch a 4 seed and a trip to Detroit if the tournament committee doesn't screw them over. Even if the 4/5 seed teams in other power 5 leagues do well in their conference tournaments that should still be the case (eg. Tennessee, Clemson & West Virginia)."My precedent for that thought was that they were a 4 seed in 2013 when they played in the Pistons arena (along with MSU in their own regional). It's just an unfortunate reality that there are a disproportionate number of good teams in the Midwest and Northeast compared to the West, but the NCAA still could've done a better job of sending more top 4 seeds to places where their fans would be more likely to travel (not that Wichita or Boise are good locations for anyone except Gonzaga, since Wichita can't stay home).
ELA and I quickly pointed out that Michigan had almost no chance at playing their first/second round games in Detroit. I realize that the Wolverines when 2-0 against the Spartans but I don't think you can rely that strongly on H2H, the Spartans were a better team on the whole.
I hope the B1G at least gets multiple teams to the S16 again!
My precedent for that thought was that they were a 4 seed in 2013 when they played in the Pistons arena (along with MSU in their own regional). It's just an unfortunate reality that there are a disproportionate number of good teams in the Midwest and Northeast compared to the West, but the NCAA still could've done a better job of sending more top 4 seeds to places where their fans would be more likely to travel (not that Wichita or Boise are good locations for anyone except Gonzaga, since Wichita can't stay home).As per usual, they simply have too many Western first/second round sites.
Arizona probably should be in San Diego (not like it matters whether Wichita State or Auburn are there instead of Boise), Duke would probably rather be in Nashville while Xavier and Cincinnati would prefer Pittsburgh. It is how it is, though. Some other schools certainly have more reason to be upset with where they were seeded.
As per usual, they simply have too many Western first/second round sites.Yup, that's the problem. Particularly when the Pac 12, WCC and Mountain West are so far down. If not for that San Diego State upset in the MWC tournament, the Dayton games would be solely to determine if anything more than just the conference champ from each of those leagues got in.
Yup, that's the problem. Particularly when the Pac 12, WCC and Mountain West are so far down. If not for that San Diego State upset in he MWC tournament, the Dayton games would be solely to determine if anything more than just the conference champ from each of those leagues got in.If you have a link to that map, I'd be interested in seeing it. Nevermind, here is that map for the 2018 field (http://billsportsmaps.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/03/2018_ncaa-bk-tournament_march-madness_68-teams_map_e_.gif). Some notes:
Granted Wooden built an empire on the fact that the west coast was not good, at a time when the selections really were regionally based.
I saw a map of the 2017 field. You could draw a line through the southern tip of Texas, and only 8 of the 68 schools were located west of that. Just the states of Michigan, Indiana and Ohio produced 10 tourney teams. You include Chicago up into Wisconsin you expand that to 13. So if the West gets 2 sites, the Chicago-Indiana-Michigan-Ohio area alone should have 3+
I'm bullish on Michigan this year. I think they have the right makeup (toughness, desire, coaching, experience) to go pretty far in this thing.I have M and MSU in the Final Four.
As I was doing picks yesterday, I was still wondering how the F#$k UNC got a 2 seed and why Syracuse is in at all.
So picks?My FF: Michigan, Sparty, UVa, WVU. UVa winning it all
3 categories:
1.) First round upset picks (11 seeds or low, none of this 10 over a 7 garbage)
2.) How far do you have the Big Ten teams going
3.) Your Final 4 with National Title game
Upsets: Loyola over Miami; South Dakota State over Ohio State; NM State over Clemson; ASU/Cuse winner over TCU
Big Ten: OSU out 1st round; MSU and UM to Sweet 16; Purdue to Final 4
Final Four: Cincinnati, North Carolina, Purdue and Duke; Duke over Cincinnati for the title
I have about my normal number of 1st round upsets; then a lot of 2nd round chalk, but only one #1 seed (Kansas) surviving the Sweet 16
I'm bullish on Michigan this year. I think they have the right makeup (toughness, desire, coaching, experience) to go pretty far in this thing.I have the Heels beating the Wolvies
As I was doing picks yesterday, I was still wondering how the F#$k UNC got a 2 seed and why Syracuse is in at all.
My FF: Michigan, Sparty, UVa, WVU. UVa winning it allIn your scenario I like MSU and UM's chances a lot. I think both are Final 4 caliber, but both got nightmare matchups in their Sweet 16 game. I actually think if you switched them, I would pick both to win their other's region. But since you have UNC and Duke both getting upset in the 2nd round, I would then pick both MSU and UM to upset the 1 seed and reach San Antonio
Notable upsets: Providence in E8 (over UNC, losing to M), SDSU over OSU, NMSU over Clemson (my 12/5), Loyola over Miami (I love MVC teams), URI over Duke
B1G: OSU out in first, Purdue E8, M and MSU in FF
In your scenario I like MSU and UM's chances a lot. I think both are Final 4 caliber, but both got nightmare matchups in their Sweet 16 game. I actually think if you switched them, I would pick both to win their other's region. But since you have UNC and Duke both getting upset in the 2nd round, I would then pick both MSU and UM to upset the 1 seed and reach San AntonioSomething about those two teams from Rhode Island that I really like. I think both are going to be really tough outs.
1. | Villanova (2) | |
2. | Virginia (1) | |
3. | Duke (3) | |
4. | Cincinnati (4) | |
5. | PURDUE (5) | |
6. | MICHIGAN STATE (6) | |
7. | Kansas (8) | |
8. | North Carolina (9) | |
9. | Xavier (7) | |
10. | Gonzaga (11) | |
11. | MICHIGAN (10) | |
12. | Tennessee (13) | |
13. | West Virginia (16) | |
14. | Texas Tech (14) | |
15. | Wichita State (15) | |
16. | Kentucky (20) | |
17. | Auburn (12) | |
18. | Arizona (23) | |
19. | OHIO STATE (17) | |
20. | Houston (22) | |
21. | Clemson (18) | |
22. | TCU (19) | |
23. | Florida (21) | |
24. | Nevada (24) | |
25. | Texas A&M (-) | |
- | ||
43. | Penn State (45) | |
56. | Nebraska (55) | |
58. | Maryland (56) | |
80. | Wisconsin (81) | |
81. | Indiana (84) | |
101. | Northwestern (96) | |
109. | Iowa (106) | |
113. | Illinois (113) | |
115. | Minnesota (114) | |
139. | Rutgers (137) | |
My FF: Michigan, Sparty, UVa, WVU. UVa winning it allIn case you want to change that I’ll let you know Nova is a terrible matchup for WVU in the Sweet 16 (if they get that far). Nova is basically a better version of Kansas, IMO. And although in 120 minutes of basketball against KU this year WVU only trailed for about 20 minutes they still went 0-3 against the Jayhawks.
Notable upsets: Providence in E8 (over UNC, losing to M), SDSU over OSU, NMSU over Clemson (my 12/5), Loyola over Miami (I love MVC teams), URI over Duke
B1G: OSU out in first, Purdue E8, M and MSU in FF
UW's Andy Van Vliet to transfer. He came in with a lot of offensive promise. Had to sit his first year because of an NCAA thing and could never earn minutes.Time for Krabby to earn his paycheck, although Gard recently said he'd like to balance the classes a little better moving forward. That's been an Achilles for a while now. We'll see.
Coaches said they set standards for defense/rebounding effort for Andy to play. He did not play. Kid had a nice game that might've needed to be featured too much. It's too bad. Hope he lands somewhere that can use him. Now hopefully UW can find a grad transfer (hopes against hope it's the South Dakota State kid).
So is UCLA going to bite the bullet and finally dump Alfraud? He's not a good coach, but he keeps getting sweet gigs (sort of the Kiffin of MBB). He needs to go back to the NBA as an assistant coach.He's always been a good mid major coach. He's just not a high major coach.
I'm bullish on Michigan this year. I think they have the right makeup (toughness, desire, coaching, experience) to go pretty far in this thing.They have like 12 wins over teams in the field this year, including OOC wins over UM, OSU, and Tennessee.
As I was doing picks yesterday, I was still wondering how the F#$k UNC got a 2 seed and why Syracuse is in at all.
They have like 12 wins over teams in the field this year, including OOC wins over UM, OSU, and Tennessee.Yes, but they also have 10 losses - some bad, one of which was at the hands of 29-4 MSU, which pounded them at a neutral site, and is a 3 seed.
He's always been a good mid major coach. He's just not a high major coach.For a program as storied as UCLA, the expectations should be a lot higher than an occasional S16 run. A couple of generations ago, they were the premier program in college hoops (and it wasn't even close), but now they're firmly behind the quartet of Duke, Kentucky, UNC, and Kansas.
In his 10 years at SW Missouri State and New Mexico, his teams always overachieved. He might just be better served there.
Although, looking up his career record, he had been better at UCLA than I would have guessed. Already forgot they were 31-5 last year and reached the Sweet 16.
EAST | SOUTH | |||||||
1 | Villanova | Virginia | 1 | |||||
16 | Tx So/NC Central | Radford/LIU | 16 | |||||
Pittsburgh | Charlotte | |||||||
8 | Miami | Rhode Island | 8 | |||||
9 | USC | Kansas State | 9 | |||||
. | ||||||||
5 | OHIO STATE | Auburn | 5 | |||||
12 | Murray State | Buffalo | 12 | |||||
Boise | San Diego | |||||||
4 | Kentucky | Wichita State | 4 | |||||
13 | S.D. State | UNC Greensboro | 13 | |||||
. | ||||||||
3 | Xavier | MICHIGAN | 3 | |||||
14 | Georgia State | Marshall | 14 | |||||
Nashville | Wichita | |||||||
6 | Florida | TCU | 6 | |||||
11 | Baylor/PENN ST | NC State | 11 | |||||
. | ||||||||
7 | Texas A&M | Seton Hall | 7 | |||||
10 | Loyola(Ill) | Florida State | 10 | |||||
Pittsburgh | Wichita | |||||||
2 | North Carolina | Kansas | 2 | |||||
15 | Pennsylvania | Wright State | 15 | |||||
- | - | - | ||||||
WEST | MIDWEST | |||||||
1 | Cincinnati | Duke | 1 | |||||
16 | CS Fullerton | UMBC | 16 | |||||
Nashville | Charlotte | |||||||
8 | Saint Mary's | Butler | 8 | |||||
9 | Louisville | Texas | 9 | |||||
. | ||||||||
5 | Arizona | Houston | 5 | |||||
12 | NM State | Davidson | 12 | |||||
Dallas | San Diego | |||||||
4 | Texas Tech | West Virginia | 4 | |||||
13 | Bucknell | Montana | 13 | |||||
. | ||||||||
3 | Gonzaga | Tennessee | 3 | |||||
14 | Stephen F. Austin | Charleston | 14 | |||||
Boise | Dallas | |||||||
6 | Nevada | Clemson | 6 | |||||
11 | Oklahoma/UCLA | San Diego State | 11 | |||||
. | ||||||||
7 | Arkansas | Creighton | 7 | |||||
10 | Virginia Tech | Missouri | 10 | |||||
Detroit | Detroit | |||||||
2 | PURDUE | MICHIGAN STATE | 2 | |||||
15 | Lipscomb | Iona | 15 |
1 | Notre Dame | Arizona State | 1 | |||
8 | Hampton | SE Louisiana | 8 | |||
. | ||||||
4 | Oregon | Western Kentucky | 4 | |||
5 | Georgia | LSU | 5 | |||
. | ||||||
3 | NEBRASKA | St. Bonaventure | 3 | |||
6 | N. Kentucky | Vermont | 6 | |||
. | ||||||
2 | Marquette | Oklahoma State | 2 | |||
7 | Rider | UC Davis | 7 | |||
. | ||||||
1 | Providence | Alabama | 1 | |||
8 | Wagner | UNC Asheville | 8 | |||
. | ||||||
4 | Mississippi State | Utah | 4 | |||
5 | UL Lafayette | Old Dominion | 5 | |||
. | ||||||
3 | Boise State | MARYLAND | 3 | |||
6 | Boston College | BYU | 6 | |||
. | ||||||
2 | Middle Tennessee | Syracuse | 2 | |||
7 | Harvard | Florida Gulf Coast | 7 |
For a program as storied as UCLA, the expectations should be a lot higher than an occasional S16 run. A couple of generations ago, they were the premier program in college hoops (and it wasn't even close)Yep, and they had the highest payroll in college sports (and it wasn't even close).
the committee looked at who you beat over any other metric. And beating name schools also mattered.I noticed this too. The same thing happened in CFB when they went to the playoff. It seems like wins are compared now and losses just get forgotten (other than the fact that you lost). In earlier times we used to talk about "bad losses" in both sports but that seems to be an antiquated concept now.
I noticed this too. The same thing happened in CFB when they went to the playoff. It seems like wins are compared now and losses just get forgotten (other than the fact that you lost). In earlier times we used to talk about "bad losses" in both sports but that seems to be an antiquated concept now.I think the only place they seemed to care about it was the MSU vs. UM thing. UM had better wins, including head to head. But MSU only lost 4 times, and all 4 losses were to top 15 teams, while UM lost more times, including 3 times to non-tourney teams.
For a program as storied as UCLA, the expectations should be a lot higher than an occasional S16 run. A couple of generations ago, they were the premier program in college hoops (and it wasn't even close), but now they're firmly behind the quartet of Duke, Kentucky, UNC, and Kansas.I mean, they made three Sweet 16s in five years, so more than occasional.
And as weak as hoops are out West, there's no reason they shouldn't be dominating the PAC (or at least be neck-and-neck with Zona).
While I didn't specifically say Alford was a *bad* coach, he's hardly an elite one and almost certainly won't get the Bruins over the hump. He had talent at Iowa but couldn't get the Hawks over the hump either.
IIRC, his dream job is Indiana and I don't think the Hoosiers want to touch him with a ten-foot pole. If he gets the axe, maybe he can join Kiffy-kins at Florida Atlantic. I'm sure he'd kill it over there (if they need a new coach that is).
I think the only place they seemed to care about it was the MSU vs. UM thing. UM had better wins, including head to head. But MSU only lost 4 times, and all 4 losses were to top 15 teams, while UM lost more times, including 3 times to non-tourney teams.Even there, I'm not sure if the committee actually assessed Michigan's losses or if they simply noted that Michigan had more losses and quit there.
Seems like in recent years you get a bunch of 1st round NIT upsets where teams that just missed look to not care. While Louisville and USC were pushed to the limits, overall, you have a really solid final 16. The only lower seeded team that won was Washington, which was a 5 seed over a 4 seed Boise State.For comparison, last year you had a 1 seed lose, three of the four 2 seeds lose, and all four 3 seeds lose. Then all three 1 seeds who won, lost their 2nd game.
Nebraska looked pretty blah last night. Basically their resume is handling business against a bunch of bad teams, but losing to every decent one, save one really good night at home against Michigan.UNL was one team at home, another on the road... add to it that the opponent had a decent big man, UNL was going to struggle. the team really needed a home game and once the seeding was announced, I was the bad guy on a couple husker message boards for predicting a loss.
Penn State closed strong after a putrid first half offensively, to beat Temple and advance to play the 1 seed, Notre Dame, in South Bend on Saturday.
Seems like in recent years you get a bunch of 1st round NIT upsets where teams that just missed look to not care. While Louisville and USC were pushed to the limits, overall, you have a really solid final 16. The only lower seeded team that won was Washington, which was a 5 seed over a 4 seed Boise State.
UNL was one team at home, another on the road... add to it that the opponent had a decent big man, UNL was going to struggle. the team really needed a home game and once the seeding was announced, I was the bad guy on a couple husker message boards for predicting a loss.I'm a bad guy too
Miles is s good recruiter... the questions UNL fans are asking today is can they do better. I'm really uncertain.
Small gathering in Dallas. Atmospheres in my experience are really weird at 1st round games. It's like being at a large convention.That's a great comparison. Way more room than needed, an echo, something sort of going on, but people are there for what is happening later, you have people on their phones sitting by themselves, people coming in and out of the back doors constantly.
Zags getting all they wantIt is getting interesting!
It is getting interesting!Nevermind. Gonzaga won and as soon as I typed that Kansas went on a 24-9 run to put their game out of reach.
- #4 Gonzaga is tied up late and
- #16 Penn is still within striking distance (4 points) of #1 KU about half way through the second half.
Dakich playing very well for the Bucks. Daum for SDSU is a scorer. He's got an NBA offensive game.Daum could be thinking about a graduate transfer if he's not headed for the NBA
Need NC St to win this. I have them knocking off Kansas in the next round.Opposite... I've got Seton Hall beating NC State in most of my brackets, and have them knocking off Kansas in more than a few.
At least Seton Hall won, but man, those refs should never work another tourney game. Way to make it unwatchable.It was brutal on the radio on drive home.
Boise TV booth going with the throwback look to old Gallagher-Iba Arena. Believe it or not, that camera angle was even steeper and had obstructions of catwalks and rafters.Ha, that was the exact compariosn I made elsewhere.
In all my years of picking the tourney no two schools have royally screwed them up more than Arizona and Kansas. Why should it be any different this year?Arizona has literally been the curse of my brackets for over two decades. Sometime in the mid-90's (IIRC) I had them winning the whole thing and going out early in back-to-back seasons and they did the opposite. There have been plenty more examples since then. At this point I've basically given up. It is my rule now that anytime I see Zona I pick them to lose either in the S16 or the E8. It isn't because that is where I think they will lose, it is simply because that is roughly the middle of the tournament so it minimizes the damage either way.
Boise has been a hell of a region to be at todayI commented on that last night. When the bracket came out I looked at Ohio State's location and decided "no way" because Boise just doesn't appeal to me as a travel destination at all. However, the folks there got to see:
Leron Black confirms he is leaving Illinois to pursue a professional career. That one certainly huts but I can't blame the guy for trying to earn a living. He is getting married and thinking about his future.This doesn't seem like a wise move to me.
The Pac 12 has to be having the worst year ever for a power conference. No CFP, then went like 1-9 in bowls. Only got 3 teams into the tourney, and two were just in the play in game. Both lost. Then your lone rep in the field of 64 gets run off the court by a MAC school.Crap week of sports for sure. PAC 12 loses all their tourney games and the Cardinals sign Sam Bradford.
Going to bed. This is the most poorly played tournament game I can recall off my head. Thanks for the layoff Jim.There was a stretch of almost 9 minutes in the 2nd half where the teams combined for 5 points, all by Michigan, and 11 turnovers.
Crap week of sports for sure. PAC 12 loses all their tourney games and the Cardinals sign Sam Bradford.
Bradford can play, just gotta keep him healthySaying that same Bradford is a good quarterback IF he can stay healthy is akin to saying that Kubrick makes good movies IF he is alive.
Haas done with a broken elbowI just read this and wondered if it's true. Major blow to Purdue's chances.
I just read this and wondered if it's true. Major blow to Purdue's chances.Yep. True.
Apparently UVA was missing one of its best players, who was hurt this week.The 6th man is not one of their best players. They were slapped silly pure and simple.
The 6th man is not one of their best players. They were slapped silly pure and simple.Just reporting what I read elsewhere, which was apparently not accurate.
Just reporting what I read elsewhere, which was apparently not accurate.Yeah I read something similar. He's a bench guy who mattered to UVA. Fungible in the grand scheme of last night though.
Just reporting what I read elsewhere, which was apparently not accurate.Ya that was De'andre Hunter and he was ACC 6th man of the year or sumsuch.I was going to take UVA to the NCG in my bracket.When I was making my brackets researching squads I saw this guy got hurt,so I backed off on UVA.But damn to lose to that team with THAT TEAM,March Madness indeed
Sunday will be a fun day in the Mountain State. WVU vs. Marshall. I expect a good game.This is going to be awesome.
The degree of difficulty on the shot the kid from Michigan hit was through the roof. Not only was it deep but the kid from Houston was close enough to almost kiss his lips when he pulled it.hopefully the Boilers and Sparty don't allow it to come to that today
Was going to try to stay up for the UM - UH match up.Too much St Paddy's day however,evidently I missed a good oneI planned accordingly, took a leprechaun nap before the start of the UM game
I'm not sure of the ruling's specifics but in the lead up last night announcers speculated that Haas wouldn't be allowed any kind of plaster cast and probably not a brace with metal/hard plastic, either -- citing the risk of accidentally striking others with it to cause injury.I'm not understanding how a brace could be any worse on a nose than a bare elbow. Both are hard, and it would seem to me that Haas wouldn't be swinging his bad elbow anyway. Regardless, an elbow can break a nose just as easy as a brace could.
This is rarely an issue in football, but I presume that is because of all the protective garb.
I'm not understanding how a brace could be any worse on a nose than a bare elbow. Both are hard, and it would seem to me that Haas wouldn't be swinging his bad elbow anyway. Regardless, an elbow can break a nose just as easy as a brace could.The best I can do is think and guess:
Doesn't make sense to me.
This game is tough to watchYes it was. Congrats to Syracuse squeaking in and making the most of it.
I'm not sure I've ever watched a team take 24(!!) more shots than its opposition and lose. Syracuse needed 40 minutes to get off 42 shots; MSU, 66.MSU dominated the boards, and Syracuse shot about 20 more FTs. Those two factors will lead to very lopsided shot attempts.
Informative tweet:It is crazy how the brackets work out. On the right-hand side (East/Midwest) it is mostly chalk. You have:
(https://mobile.twitter.com/JohnGasaway)John Gasaway
@JohnGasaway
(https://mobile.twitter.com/JohnGasaway)· (https://mobile.twitter.com/JohnGasaway/status/975583388227768321)
1h
(https://mobile.twitter.com/JohnGasaway/status/975583388227768321)
This is the wackiest Sweet 16 in 18 years.
2018 average seed: 5.31
2000 average seed: 5.31
Normal (1985-2018): 4.45
Wackiest, 1986: 5.56
Chalkiest, 2009: 3.06
Updated to include second round:
Record by seed:
- 3-1 - UVA lost: 2-1 - Xavier lost.
- 4-0: 2-2 - Cincy and UNC lost.
- 4-0: 2-2 - TN and MSU lost.
- 2-2 - Zona and Wichita State lost: 1-1 - Auburn lost.
- 4-0: 3-1 - Kentucky, WVU, Clemson won.
- 2-2 - Miami and TCU lost: 0-2.
- 3-1 - Arkansas lost: 2-1 - aTm and Nevada won.
- 1-3 - Creighton, VaTech, and Mizzou lost: 0-1.
- 3-1 - KSU, Bama, and FSU won: 2-1 KSU and FSU won.
- 1-3 - Butler won: 0-1.
- 2-2 - Loyola-Chicago and Cuse won: 2-0 both won.
- 0-4: n/a
- 2-2 - Buffalo and Marshall won: 0-2.
- 0-4: n/a
- 0-4: n/a
- 1-3 - UMBC won: 0-1
Lots of upsets in the second round and oddly they are concentrated on one side of the bracket where the National semi-final will be no better than a 3/5 match-up.
Michigan gets a third straight matchup with a strong defensive team. Expect more slog.Truly a miracle Saturday night. Michigan's shooting has been absolutely atrocious for the two NCAA tournament games played so far.
This is going to be awesome.Well that worked out well. As much I as I generally root for Xavier, after living in Cincinnati for over 20 years as a Cleveland Browns fan enduring all the garbage from Cincy people about Cleveland and Cleveland Sports teams, I have to enjoy the curse of Cincinnati Sports.
I can only hope that UC and Xavier are on a similar collision course.
(https://bloximages.newyork1.vip.townnews.com/newsrecord.org/content/tncms/assets/v3/editorial/f/2a/f2a3f7c0-d4ac-11e7-be8a-c35cea9604ea/5a1e1b4d21ef7.image.jpg)
It is crazy how the brackets work out. On the right-hand side (East/Midwest) it is mostly chalk. You have:This is Purdue's 4th S16 under Painter. Every prior S16 was a 4 or 5, and never got the "broken bracket" scenario where the 8/9 (or the 16!!!) knocked the 1 out of contention.Then on the left-hand side (South/West) there is almost no chalk. You have:
- Both #1 seeds Nova, Kansas
- Both #2 seeds PU, Dook
- One #3 seed TxTech
- Both #5 seeds Clemson, WVU
- One #11 seed Cuse
- One #3 seed Michigan
- One #4 seed Gonzaga
- One #5 seed Kentucky
- Both #7 seeds aTm, Nevada
- Both #9 seeds KSU, FSU
- One #11 seed Loyola-Chicago
If you view #5 seeds as not "really" upsets then on the right you have only one upset and on the left you have five out of eight.
It's MAdness, baby!Unfookingbelievable 3 of my final 4 are out after the 1st weekend.UVA/MSU/Xavier.Who ever wins these brackets doesn't know chit.......when you think about it.This will be the funkiest final four in quite some time
Unfookingbelievable 3 of my final 4 are out after the 1st weekend.UVA/MSU/Xavier.Who ever wins these brackets doesn't know chit.......when you think about it.This will be the funkiest final four in quite some timeI never had faith in MSU getting past Duke, so at least when MSU went down, I figured after 24 hours to cool off I could still root for my bracket. Then back to back I lost a Final 4 team (UNC), then a Finals team (Cincy), and the whole thing had gone to hell.
He's anything but Huggy...
Look, I’m gonna throw my two cents in here knowing full well it won’t change your opinion. But Huggs probably isn’t as bad a guy as you imagine him being.
Some of the stuff that drew criticism at UC hasn’t been an issue at WVU. He has routinely graduated between 70-100% of his players here. Just the other day I read where 41 of the last 42 seniors to play under him have left with degrees. His best player this year, Jevon Carter, was just named the Academic All American of the Year for Men’s Division I basketball. Besides that, I believe that the way the NCAA counted JUCO’s toward graduation rates impacted his numbers at UC. I honestly can’t think of an off court incident involving one of his players here. If someone has been arrested during his tenure here then it is slipping my mind.
Neither he or WVU was mentioned in any of the FBI reports that recently came out. Now, if you flat out don’t like his personality or demeanor then that is absolutely your prerogative. I won’t try to talk you out of it, but his coaching peers seem to almost universally love him. Chances are if there is a coach out there you like and respect then he likes and respects Huggs. His personality and wit are actually a little too dry for my tastes, but whatever. To each his own.
He has started an endowment at WVU in his mother’s name to fund cancer research that is approaching 1.5 million dollars and is growing everyday. Like I said, if your heels are dug in on not liking him then nothing I said will change that but I wanted to mount a little defense of him anyway. He told Clark Kellogg in an interview last year that he got wind from former players that a few years ago Sports Illustrated was attempting to do a pretty scathing piece on him and contacted many former players looking for “dirt.”
They couldn’t find anyone who could give them any information that would be helpful in their endeavor so they dropped it.
better than George Raveling on the Iowa bench
He got fat and ditched suits and ties for windbreakers. Some of that stuff rubs people the wrong way. I had a perfect stranger in an airport tell me she thought Huggins wearing windbreakers on the sidelines was the most unprofessional thing she had ever seen. I mean, everybody has an opinion.
I never had faith in MSU getting past Duke, so at least when MSU went down, I figured after 24 hours to cool off I could still root for my bracket. Then back to back I lost a Final 4 team (UNC), then a Finals team (Cincy), and the whole thing had gone to hell.Brutal i tell ya no matter which way I looked holes were getting blasted in good programs(and my bracket).I had MSU winning the hardware
Sparty?well, it certainly wasn't Herbie Husker
Marquette played Cincy pretty well on the later half of Higgins stint at UC, as Marquette and Luvl were the only two schools to win a outright CUSA title other than Cincy, during Huggins' reign. They had some great tussles.Yeah, Dwyane Wade was a pretty good player.
Before that though, he had his way, looks like he was 19-11 during his tenure at UC. I remember when UC was #1 at the Bradley Center, and Brian Wardle scored all 24 Marquette points in the 1st half.
Talking to the wrong guy Badge. I'd support another Jesuit school (Loyola) over DePaul everyday of the week.Yeah, so.. McCormick Place.
I bet few realize, DePaul (the City built this sucker) moved to a new 10,000 seat arena (no longer out at O'Hare at Rosemont), attached to McCormick Conv Ctr., and their attendance went down even further. I've heard very little positive about the arena. Mainly a giant PIA for fans to get to, students still don't care, despite being closer to Lincoln Park.
Is it better now? A friend of mine who graduated HS in 1994 went to UC and only stayed for about three days. He left because the dorm they put him in was in such an awful neighborhood that he just wanted out.Yeah, I had a similar experience in 98. I stuck it out for the quarter though, and then transferred to OSU over Christmas break. While OSU isn't exactly in the greatest neighborhood, it might as well have been Beverly Hills compared to Clifton.
Excited to see PSU getting some quality road wins in the NIT if nothing else. Dominated ND at their place, and played Marquette very well last night and actually defended the 3 for once very well. Were without two of their top 7 guys too (Watkins out for season, Bostick suspended for past two games). Nice to see guys like Harrar getting some good experience and extra practice time.I'm rooting for PSU to win the NIT. I always root for major conference teams in the NIT because small conference fans seem to be convinced that they get screwed in the NCAA when, in fact, the opposite is true. Typically the NIT is won by a major conference team:
If Carr is smart and comes back (he's not NBA ready and could be a first rounder with another year under his belt), PSU is priming for a nice run next year.
I don't really find that as evidence of anything. Just like VCU making the Final 4 in 2011 didn't prove they were deserving of a bid.I disagree based on volume.
I’ve picked plenty of bad tournaments but this one takes the cake. Three FF teams eliminated before the Sweet 16 is a first. Only having 6 of the Sweet 16 teams right is a first.My wife and I only have 4 teams left in our brackets.
I'm rooting for PSU to win the NIT. I always root for major conference teams in the NIT because small conference fans seem to be convinced that they get screwed in the NCAA when, in fact, the opposite is true. Typically the NIT is won by a major conference team:1996 Nebraska Cornhuskers!Note that over the past 20 years the NIT winner has usually come from a major conference.
- 2017: TCU
- 2016: George Washington
- 2015: Stanford
- 2014: Minnesota
- 2013: Baylor
- 2012: Stanford
- 2011: Wichita State
- 2010: Dayton
- 2009: Penn State
- 2008: Ohio State
- 2007: WVU
- 2006: USCe
- 2005: USCe
- 2004: Michigan
- 2003: St. Johns, subsequently vacated, Georgetown was runner-up
- 2002: Memphis
- 2001: Tulsa
- 2000: Wake
- 1999: Cal
- 1998: Minnesota, subsequently vacated, Penn State was runner-up
My wife and I only have 4 teams left in our brackets.Serves ya right for taking my advice
Serves ya right for taking my adviceOn getting a wife?
Will be very curious which A&M team Michigan gets tonight. Is it the one that beat UNC, Kentucky, and West Virginia all by double digits. Or is it the one that was 3-4 in their last 7 games getting beat up by teams like Miss State.I wouldn't touch that game with a 10 foot pole. As you said, Texas A&M has been all over the place, and so had Michigan. They were hotter than anyone in the Big Ten entering the tourney, then played so poorly Thursday, they probably would have lost to about 55-60 teams in the tourney, just not Montana. Then needed the buzzer beater. I could see a Michigan blowout win, or a Texas A&M blowout win, or anything in between.
Michigan will need good offensive spacing and to hit some 3's. I think Houston was a very good test for Michigan in prepping for A&M. Houston, by almost all computer metrics, was rated top 15-20 in the country in defense.
I don't think winning the NIT proves you are the best team left out at all. Your resume is cut off on Selection Sunday. I agree that the "best" teams left out, the most talented teams, are probably high majors. But it doesn't mean they were more deserving of the bid. Just like if the stat was the opposite, that wouldn't be proof that they should have been in either.Agreed, I don't think it means anything with relation to not being selected for the NCAA's. I see it as a building block to next year - extra games, against relatively strong competition and extra practice.
Over the last 9 years, only one #1 seed (Minnesota in 2014) has won it. So none of the winners are even coming from the group of teams that were on the bubble. Judging anything about the winner (other than the fact that the teams who actually had a shot at the tourney don't seem to care at all) seems pointless.
1996 Nebraska Cornhuskers!The only time in human history Nebraska basketball had the nation's longest winning streak. They ran off a few wins the next year after Kentucky lost early the next season.
I wouldn't touch that game with a 10 foot pole. As you said, Texas A&M has been all over the place, and so had Michigan. They were hotter than anyone in the Big Ten entering the tourney, then played so poorly Thursday, they probably would have lost to about 55-60 teams in the tourney, just not Montana. Then needed the buzzer beater. I could see a Michigan blowout win, or a Texas A&M blowout win, or anything in between.Looks like both teams are back to how they played prior to last weekend.
So, looking good for a 3, two 9s and an 11 on one side of the bracket? That has to be a record for worst regional finals on the same side right?And the opposite side is likely to go 1-1-2-2/3...
And the opposite side is likely to go 1-1-2-2/3...That is the weird part. #3 seed Michigan, if they make it all the way, will get to the CG by beating:
That is the weird part. #3 seed Michigan, if they make it all the way, will get to the CG by beating:Over the past 30 years, only 5 times has a team made it to the national championship without facing a top 3 seed, and only 2 times (both UNC) without facing a top 4 seed. No team has ever not faced a top 5 seed. And all of the teams that ever did it without facing a top 3 were 1 seeds.If the upsets were more spread out it wouldn't be such a big deal but they have all been concentrated on the left side of the bracket. It is entirely likely that two regional finals will be #1 v #2 while the other two are 3/9 and 9/11.
- #14 Montana
- #6 Houston
- #7 aTm
- #9 FSU
- Either #9 KSU or #11 Loyola-Chicago
Crazy, stupid luck for Michigan on the left bracket -- though, if they make it, I guess that averages them out for the crazy (the hard kind) gauntlet that they needed to cross in 2013 (13-5-1-3-4-1).Plus the horrible luck they had in the fall I had to hear about non stop of having to play in the first ever football game where only one team had to play in the rain. ;)
the tourney has been entertaining this year... Certainly mirrored the regular season with upsets and the fact that the NCAA had a lot of good teams that played up and down basketball. Part of that is youth and the # of guys who leave early... Part of that is talent is spreading.I like a it in the opening round, then I like the 2nd round to correct it, for some heavyweight battles over the final 2 rounds. I watched the first half of UM-A&M last night, and a little bit of the end of UK-KSU, but that's it. I'll be all in for the real game today. Probably won't watch much tomorrow. Maybe the 2nd half of UM-FSU after the kids go to bed.
Plus the horrible luck they had in the fall I had to hear about non stop of having to play in the first ever football game where only one team had to play in the rain. ;)that is almost as bad as night games in football...
Credit where due.So seamless most of their fans don't know it happened.
I am impressed with the ease of which Michigan transitioned from being a football school to a basketball school.
Seemingly seamless.
Yeah, I don't think anyone was more than tongue in cheek.Ha, well that's the other thing about Michigan. Stereotyped for having a superiority complex - and even SCs that seem persuasive/real are *always* ICs in disguise. So, like people in general and with our own reasons, we're a sensitive bunch. Apparently I enjoy feeding that flaw as much as anyone.
NCAA stunningly gets something right, amends elbow brace rule for Purdue's Isaac HaasGood news. What is he going to be wearing?
I'll never learn to get off the WVU and Purdue bandwagons in filling out my bracket.WVU keeps running into great teams in the Sweet 16. Our last 3 S16 opponents have been a combined 102-5 heading into the game. I also thought we got a tough whistle in the 2nd half. That’s not the reason they lost but it didn’t help. The first 6 fouls of the second half were all called on WVU and came within the first 6 minutes and a couple (if not 3 of them) were just terrible calls. The third foul on Jevon Carter and the 4th foul on Daxter Miles were vomit inducing. Dax was our leading scorer in the game and had to sit for the next 10 minutes of game action. By the 10:00 mark of the second half WVU had been whistled for 10 fouls and Nova 2.
WVU keeps running into great teams in the Sweet 16. Our last 3 S16 opponents have been a combined 102-5 heading into the game.Angry Purdue fans tell me that's no reason to keep Painter. After all, the four times he's made the S16 we've faced the one seed 3 times and this time was a 3 seed that was probably under-seeded due to the Evans injury that hurt their record. And of those 4 seasons, three were impacted by injury (two years from Hummel torn ACL, one mid season, and this year Haas).
Angry Purdue fans tell me that's no reason to keep Painter. After all, the four times he's made the S16 we've faced the one seed 3 times and this time was a 3 seed that was probably under-seeded due to the Evans injury that hurt their record. And of those 4 seasons, three were impacted by injury (two years from Hummel torn ACL, one mid season, and this year Haas).IMO, Purdue played the best team in the Big 12 last night. Before Keenan Evans got hurt I thought (and still think) Tech would have won the regular season title. They are super athletic and have a ton of kids between that 6’5 and 6’7 range that interchangeable on defense. It’s really hard to catch them in mismatches on D because they can just switch all the screens and the guy who switches off is a carbon copy of the guy who was just guarding you.
But clearly they all say the S16 is his ceiling and we should demand better.
Nova shot the 3 VERY well in the 2nd half, tough to beat a team shooting that wellNova was a bad matchup for WVU. They shoot the hell out of the 3 and all season WVU has guarded the 3 point line poorly.
was rooting for WVU
Loyola is fun to watch.and they can ball
The most impressive thing about Michigan Basketball is that Beilein does things the right way.It's my favorite aspect about him, too. When the FBI investigation began, and even a few weeks ago when reports leaked many more big schools were implicated, including half of this tournament's sixteen teams seeded #1 through #4, it was enjoyable knowing that there is a serious chance that NCAA basketball will be cleaned up and that Michigan has a 0.00000% chance of involvement.
Amen. We are lucky, though. It's obvious that FTs are Michigan's Achilles'. And yet...Michigan still hasn't lost one game this year where the missed FTs would have given them the game. Knock on wood that this continues.
Someone needs to teach Simpson how to shoot free throws though. Jeez. That could have hurt a lot last night.
I think we are already guaranteed a marquee FF matchup on the right.Yeah, I more meant on Friday night. I found myself pulling for Villanova, Duke and Kansas surprisingly.
Anyone in favor of expanding the CFB playoffs?I stand by the fact that unless the P5 is going to break away for the GO5, a 12 team, 10 auto bid tourney will actually improve the regular season.
My rooting interests obviously sit with michigan but I find this Bill Self Kansas team to be worth rooting for and a bit different. There is no Wiggins, Embiid, etc. They have key players, but it’s more the makeup of the sum of the parts that Hs made them successful. It would be interesting to see this be the team bill self breaks through with after tourney woes with heralded 1 and dones.I've actually never really had a problem with Self's teams. I'll eliminate Izzo for home purposes, but among the coaching royalty, I've never had an issue with him compared to K, Pitino, Roy, etc...
I never really understand why people hate the tourney setup. It’s all about being hot at the right time, as are many sports.Nobody bitches when a WC wins the Super Bowl.
Personally, I don’t need a marquee matchup as long as the basketball is good. I’ll take a hot Loyola team over a team getting hype just because of tradition and history, but not playing great ball (UNC). The outcome is left on the court as opposed to hotel conference rooms like college football.
Nobody bitches when a WC wins the Super Bowl.I disagree that nobody does, we have on here before.
Nobody bitches when a WC wins the Super Bowl.Oh, I don’t like it when a WC wins the SB. I especially didn’t like it when the 9-7 Giants won it and didn’t like it when the 9-7 Cardinals made it. It just feels like the wrong result to me.
Oh, I don’t like it when a WC wins the SB. I especially didn’t like it when the 9-7 Giants won it and didn’t like it when the 9-7 Cardinals made it. It just feels like the wrong result to me.I like a spattering of upsets in the first round, but I like the 2nd round to be boring chalk games, that gives us a really strong Sweet 16
My conundrum is I love the NCAA Tournament. It’s my favorite sporting event, but I also prefer to crown the most consistent, best teams over the course of the season the champion.
I like a spattering of upsets in the first round, but I like the 2nd round to be boring chalk games, that gives us a really strong Sweet 16Agree!
And I'm fine with that too. But then then the P5 needs to split off.I agree completely that it will be eight with six auto-bids very soon. The only point of clarification that I would add is that the sixth auto-bid will be a quasi-auto-bid given to the highest ranked Go5 Champ while the other five will be straight-up auto-bids for the P5 Champs.
But let's be honest. It'll be 8, with 6 auto bids very soon. So 12 just means you have a reason to care about weeknight MAC and Sun Belt games, even though they will never win those 1st round games.
Oh, I don’t like it when a WC wins the SB. I especially didn’t like it when the 9-7 Giants won it and didn’t like it when the 9-7 Cardinals made it. It just feels like the wrong result to me.This is where I am. I love the NCAA Tournament because it is a win-or-go-home deal. That makes it exciting but at the same time it creates a situation in which the best team only rarely wins the National Championship. Look at the runs to the Final Four:
My conundrum is I love the NCAA Tournament. It’s my favorite sporting event, but I also prefer to crown the most consistent, best teams over the course of the season the champion.
I disagree that nobody does, we have on here before.I rarely disagree with your underlying opinions, but we're the sun and the moon on this.
But I think there are a couple of differences.
(1) We are used to having series in the NBA, and we know we can't get that in football, so we are willing to accept the flukiness of any sort of football playoff.
(2) the NFL playoffs are so much smaller, that at least you went through the bulk of more deserving teams to get there. A Wildcard that reaches the Super Bowl beat 3/5 of the other playoff teams from their conference, and the way the bracket is set up, almost certainly they were 3 of the 4 division champs. In the NCAA basketball tournament, you only play 5 of 31 teams on your side of the bracket, and there's no guarantee they are even the good ones. Like when George Mason made their run, even though they weren't one of the best 4 teams, they did go through Michigan State, North Carolina and UConn to get there, so we more accepted it. But the way things happened this year, it wasn't the teams that made it that knocked off the top teams, other teams knocked off the top teams, then Michigan and Loyola knocked off those teams.
(3) I was never talking about legitimacy of a champion. You have to be both lucky and good. That was my point about Purdue. I think they still are the best team in the Big Ten, but they didn't get the scheduling luck MSU had during the regular season; or other teams knocking of all the big boys luck that Michigan had in the postseason, so they are going home. I was simply saying as a neutral fan, I was a little bummed about the caliber of basketball we were stuck with on Thursday/Saturday. It was a shell of what we saw on Friday/Sunday, and as a fan, I feel a little cheated there. And that does carry to the NFL. I was bummed we didn't get a Patriots-Steelers AFC Championship. I have a little Warriors-Cavs fatigue at this point, but I'm glad we didn't get Warriors-Raptors or something last year.
And I also don't want to conflate a critique of Michigan with a critique of Michigan's path. I'm perfectly ok with Michigan being there. As I said earlier, the only team on the entire left side of the bracket I didn't think they would beat was UNC. So even if it had been Xavier in the Elite 8, and Virginia in the Final 4, I still would have picked Michigan to the national title game with only the knowledge that Texas A&M beat UNC.Nothing speaks to the randomness of the tournament better than the North Carolina / A&M and Michigan / A&M results. And, less about who won or loss and more about the margin of victory in each game.
I saw a stat earlier that whereas Michigan has been losing about 7/8 of their games when scoring less than 1PPP, this year they are winning 70% of those games.I was reading about him. What a key addition that was.
Michigan can win so many ways now, which is so essential in a single-elimination tourney like this where a bad match-up or cold streak sends most teams packing.
Luke Yaklich deserves a tripling of his salary. Don't let that one go.
“I want a guy that can teach,” Beilein recalled thinking. “I don't care what you know, if you can't teach it.”
Beilein was more thorough in vetting Yaklich than Donlon — who had three 20-win seasons as a head coach. He met with Yaklich’s former high school principal, as many of his coworkers with the Redbirds as possible and even asked for practice tapes to see how Yaklich taught things.
It took six weeks, but Beilein eventually made the hire.
Having some assistant turnover from time to time might be a good thing for programs. I was thinking about that as I saw the same old faces on Duke's bench on Sunday, as the zone was getting ripped to shreds. Do any of those guys bring creativity to the table or feel they have the ability to own a part of the game plan or provide input?MSU fans have the same complaint. Not enough new voices among the assistants. Apparently Fife (who quit as head coach at IPFW to come to MSU as an assistant) is a leader for the Detroit Mercy job, and MSU fans are hoping he takes it. No reason to fire any of them, but it might be time to move along.
The foul-related rules I'd favor are the ones that would stop the crappy-stop-go-stop final two minutes of most basketball games. Imagine how smoothly games would end if deliberate fouling was always a bad idea? How could that be accomplished? I'm not sure how popular this will be, but if non-shooting fouls are restructured to both give one dead ball FT (when in the bonus) *and* return the ball to the team that was fouled, that would go all the way to fixing the problem.In the last one minute, this would be fine with me.
The foul-related rules I'd favor are the ones that would stop the crappy-stop-go-stop final two minutes of most basketball games. Imagine how smoothly games would end if deliberate fouling was always a bad idea? How could that be accomplished? I'm not sure how popular this will be, but if non-shooting fouls are restructured to both give one dead ball FT (when in the bonus) *and* return the ball to the team that was fouled, that would go all the way to fixing the problem.So if a team is down 2 with 20 seconds left they are in pretty bad shape then. I get the spirit of what you are trying to accomplish but I think it would have unintended consequences.
There are unintended consequences with anything. Coaches are smart. They'll find ways to expose holes in any rule set.
I mean, maybe. Sounds like we’re trading allowing a team an opportunity for a team to comeback so that the fans can get home 15 minutes sooner. If someone gets tired of watching that they can always leave or change the channel. No one is forcing us to sit there.
Yeah, the problem is, I don't find it much more enjoyable when an 8 point lead with 2:30 to go is game over because the team can just sit on the ball for 2 minutes.That an end-of-game lead would be harder to surmount is a kind of problem...maybem, and I'm sure there would be other problems (with the ball and less than 30s, no need to wait out the clock; blow the whistle; the winner just wins), but at least those problems would maximize the importance of the first 38 minutes rather than somewhat undo their importance with a skillless stoppage strategy that most fans find contemptible. Which isn't just about the slow finish. It's also about favoring a hokey kind of chaos maximization over winning via standard basketball.
So a team that beat Xavier, Gonzaga, Louisville, Clemson, Miami, Florida Missouri and UNC isn’t very good? I’d say they’ve been inconsistent, but it doesn’t seem to fit your narrative. 3 of those teams are top 11 of the RPI and they also played a tight game with virginia.
Michigan played a great game against aTm but despite Mario's awe at the Seminoles' length and athleticism, FSU isn't very good. Michigan has played really well in one of their four tournament games so far. Now they get a highly unusual freebie in the semi-final and then if they play really well in the final game they have about a 50/50 chance of being the National Champion.
That an end-of-game lead would be harder to surmount is a kind of problem...maybem, and I'm sure there would be other problems (with the ball and less than 30s, no need to wait out the clock; blow the whistle; the winner just wins), but at least those problems would maximize the importance of the first 38 minutes rather than somewhat undo their importance with a skillless stoppage strategy that most fans find contemptible. Which isn't just about the slow finish. It's also about favoring a hokey kind of chaos maximization over winning via standard basketball.
I guess the end of game fouling has always felt to me like one of those loopholes that all sports typically grimace at and close as soon as coaches notice/start taking advantage of, but somehow this one has lasted for decades.
I think that rule would have cost your team its last two Final Four appearances.
There are unintended consequences with anything. Coaches are smart. They'll find ways to expose holes in any rule set.Ok coach, what is your solution?
So a team that beat Xavier, Gonzaga, Louisville, Clemson, Miami, Florida Missouri and UNC isn’t very good? I’d say they’ve been inconsistent, but it doesn’t seem to fit your narrative. 3 of those teams are top 11 of the RPI and they also played a tight game with virginia.That same FSU team that beat that group also lost to OkSU, Dook, Miami, Louisville, Boston College, Wake Forest, Virginia, Notre Dame, NCST, Clemson, and Louisville again. Fine, inconsistent. I still agree with ELA, the quality of BB on the left side of the bracket was a LOT worse this past weekend and will be a LOT worse this Saturday then the quality of BB on the Right side of the bracket.
No game in the final four is a freebie. Did you know Loyola was 22 in the RPi before the tourney started? Statistics seem to contradict quite a bit of your post and I know you like statistics.
Michigan won the B1G tourney and was the hottest team in the big ten and got a terrible draw, being sent out west while MSU was able to stay home in Detroit. It’s funny in hindsight that everyone thinks Michigan made out, when the narrative was very different two weeks ago.Reading my mind?
Everyone is entitled to their opinion, but I simply don’t understand the opinion that Michigan v FSU & Loyola v K State was not good basketball and Michigan. V Loyola won’t be great basketball either. I’ve really enjoye the type of game Loyola plays. It’s far from the sloppy, but athletic style that many “high ranking” rosters with a lot of one and fines play. Fundamentals matter for my viewing pleasure so I’m excited for two very different games this weekend.
Based on the feedback, whoever wins between Michigan and Loyola should walk right off the court and congratulate Nova or Kansas as National champs.
This has been probably been discussed on here before but what would everyone think about a rule change that eliminated fouling out? Every foul beyond a player’s fifth would result in an automatic 3 FT for the opposition (4 if it occurred on a 3 pointer). I just hate seeing players having to sit.Can I be a douche and bump my own post? Lol. I really did want to get some feedback on this. I think AC one upped me with a pretty off the wall suggestion.
You are still punishing for too much hacking but it’s a different consequence. The coach still has a strategic decision to make. Do you keep a guy out there with 5 fouls knowing a whistle could cost you 3 points? Just wondering. I have a couple of buddies I ran it by who hated it.
Rules like this are never enacted, but the system would be better even if, beginning at 2:00 in regulation, refs called non-shooting fouls in an alternating fashion:All that does is exacerabate the end of game situation you are complaining about. Now you are forcing the team that is behind to foul twice as much in order to get the ball back.
Foul 1 by team A: team B gets one FT and keeps possession of the ball
Foul 2 by team A: team B gets as many shots as the bonus requires and possession follows the classic protocol
(...) Repeat pattern as necessary.
That's a compromise that will never happen but could solve the dilemma. The biggest problem I have with it is how inelegant it is. But basketball hasn't rejected the "possession arrow," so I guess that's not a deal-breaker after all.
Michigan won the B1G tourney and was the hottest team in the big ten and got a terrible draw, being sent out west while MSU was able to stay home in Detroit. It’s funny in hindsight that everyone thinks Michigan made out, when the narrative was very different two weeks ago.
Everyone is entitled to their opinion, but I simply don’t understand the opinion that Michigan v FSU & Loyola v K State was not good basketball and Michigan. V Loyola won’t be great basketball either. I’ve really enjoye the type of game Loyola plays. It’s far from the sloppy, but athletic style that many “high ranking” rosters with a lot of one and fines play. Fundamentals matter for my viewing pleasure so I’m excited for two very different games this weekend.
Based on the feedback, whoever wins between Michigan and Loyola should walk right off the court and congratulate Nova or Kansas as National champs.
Can I be a douche and bump my own post? Lol. I really did want to get some feedback on this. I think AC one upped me with a pretty off the wall suggestion.
I like that players foul out. If a coach takes the risk of fouling as a strategy and uses his best players to do so, then so be it.You don't use the starters. You....
Can I be a doucheSure, go ahead. :)
I really did want to get some feedback on this.For those not following, "this" is Kris's suggestion that instead of players "fouling out" the other team gets one extra foul shot for fouls committed by that player. His reasoning is that he hates seeing players have to sit.
MB - you know I have a tremendous amount of respect for your opinion, but you’re blinded by seedings and rankings right now as opposed to the quality of the basketball a team is playing. Loyola has played great basketball and I’m not confident Michigan can take them down.If it were my team, I'd be worried about the game too but that is because I always worry when it is my team. Since it isn't my team, I can look at it from farther away and I don't expect a contest in the first semi-final at all. FWIW: that has little to do with Michigan. I'd feel the same way about Loyola/Kansas or Loyola/Villanova. For that matter I would feel the same about Loyola/aTm or Loyola/Gonzaga. I'd only be worried if it were Loyola/Ohio State.
Based on the feedback, whoever wins between Michigan and Loyola should walk right off the court and congratulate Nova or Kansas as National champs.Again, you are conflating Michigan's path with Michigan. I, again, am saying that once UNC was out of the picture, there wasn't a single a team on that side of the bracket that would have beaten Michigan. Be it FSU and Loyola or Xavier and Virginia (if seeds had held).
Rarely hear of Sagarin cited for college basketball these days. Maybe it’s just me. RPI, KenPom frequently are brought up. Massey to some extent too.RPI is probably the most useless metric out there.
In those Loyola is 22,30, and 8 respectively. So Sagarin is a major outlier.
Michigan certainly hasn’t faced murderers row this year. But by most computer metrics Houston was a 4/5 seed that was underseeded. The Houston game was ugly in style, but Michigan beat a top notch team. FSU wasn’t a world class opponent, especially for the Elite Eight. But they were a unique matchup problem type team, and Michigan advanced with supreme domination on one end of the court. .7PPP on defense was lower by some margin than any FSU opponent all year.
Sure, go ahead. :)For those not following, "this" is Kris's suggestion that instead of players "fouling out" the other team gets one extra foul shot for fouls committed by that player. His reasoning is that he hates seeing players have to sit.Well, that’s a situation/strategy with the rules as they are. I don’t think my suggestion changes that dramatically. In fact, with a player with 5 fouls you would be less inclined to foul that guy. You are giving him an extra opportunity to make one.
Honestly, I'm trying to work through the unintended consequences in my head. In CBB you get five fouls in a 48 minute game and in the NBA you get six in a 60 minute game so either way it is about one foul allowed every 10 minutes of game time. That is pretty standard and we've been accustomed to it for decades so a change would be a pretty big deal, IMHO.
As I think about it, it seems to me that the biggest difference would be that depth would be less important, especially at the post position. I'm not sure if that would be good or bad for the game in the long run.
I also think that you might need to have some kind of escalator clause built into that rule (which would probably make it too complicated) because otherwise the smart play would be to just continually foul a bad FT shooter. Ie, imagine that your team is playing against a team with a Center who is a great defender and good a finishing around the rim but he only shoots ~50% FT's. Well, why not foul him every time he shoots from the paint?
I like that players foul out. If a coach takes the risk of fouling as a strategy and uses his best players to do so, then so be it.I agree with this. I think the game is best when the fewest fouls occur. And I don't think "1 extra FT" is nearly the deterrant that the bench is. Since this is all hypothetical, if you want to trade a new rule for kicking the player out for the rest of the game, it'll have to be for something much more severe than an extra chance at one point.
MB - you know I have a tremendous amount of respect for your opinion, but you’re blinded by seedings and rankings right now as opposed to the quality of the basketball a team is playing. Loyola has played great basketball and I’m not confident Michigan can take them down.I know I already answered this one, but @ELA (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=55) 's comment made me think about it a different way. Per his favored "massey composite" Houston and Loyola should have been seeded one line higher but lets look at a much more ridiculous example. Suppose for a minute that every team that Michigan will play on the way to the NCG was seeded three lines lower than they should have been. Elevating each of Michigan's opponents by three lines, they will face:
I like that players foul out. If a coach takes the risk of fouling as a strategy and uses his best players to do so, then so be it.My thought process wasn’t coaches fouling as an end of game strategy. It was players and teams not being punished as much for by an official’s call. I just watched the Carter kid from Duke play less than half the game and then foul out in OT on a bang bang block/charge call that easily could have went the other way.
All that does is exacerabate the end of game situation you are complaining about. Now you are forcing the team that is behind to foul twice as much in order to get the ball back.I'm not convinced of that. I suspect many teams would find the FT+possession too steep a cost to even try. Others would be undeterred, I'm sure, and would hurt more for trying, which I also favor.
I'm not convinced of that. I suspect many teams would find the FT+possession too steep a cost to even try. Others would be undeterred, I'm sure, and would hurt more for trying, which I also favor.“Too steep a cost to even TRY.” The more you post about this the more it sounds like you just want the team that’s losing to quit so you don’t have to be bothered to watch it. I mean why not give each coach a stick with a white flag on it to wave as a sign to end the game?
So are the Leos gonna be able to knock off the Utes in the NIT Final?Even though @ELA (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=55) doesn't think it means anything, I just want to point out that the NIT Championship will be won by a major conference team this year (unless Utah beats PSU in which case the question of whether or not the PAC is a "major conference" will be relevant).
“Too steep a cost to even TRY.” The more you post about this the more it sounds like you just want the team that’s losing to quit so you don’t have to be bothered to watch it. I mean why not give each coach a stick with a white flag on it to wave as a sign to end the game?I wasn't writing about trying to win. That was an economy of words thing. I meant for it to be obvious that "try" regarded trying to intentionally foul.
Yes, it can make the end of games tedious. But when the strategy works the pay off to me is always worth it. Again, if this rule were implemented you, as a Michigan fan, would have been denied the Trey Burke shot against Kansas in 2013 and ensuing run and Jordan Poole shot and ensuing run this year.I realize that. But including it clouds the point. We are talking about making basketball better to watch in general, rather than better for one of our teams, right? And besides that, even if such a rule change would theoretically eliminate the potential for one set of legendary wins, it's incomplete to not acknowledge that it would also facilitate other legendary wins to replace them.
Those two shots and memories aren’t worth all the foul fests you’ve had to sit through that just delayed inevitable endings?
Well, there goes my dream of a good year next year .?
?I think he's referencing the news in the 2018-19 thread. Jackson going pro with an agent, Cowan transferring.
Re: end of game:Really? Nobody even has a comment on this idea?
What about shortening the shot clock to 24 seconds for the final 5 minutes of play (and overtime).
It's a small change, but might make the trailing team avoid fouls longer as the end approaches, knowing they have more possessions left.
Really? Nobody even has a comment on this idea?I think something like making each possession within the final 2 minutes of the game having an 18 second shot clock would be ok with me.
Really? Nobody even has a comment on this idea?I think a shorter shot-clock at the end of games would be a decent idea worth considering but I'm not sure it would make that big of a difference.
Really? Nobody even has a comment on this idea?The problem is while that fixes the fouling issue, in games where teams aren't fouling it favors certain styles over others.
That's why I support the super penalty (2 plus ball) for a foul in the backcourt. Make the D play some defense for at least some amount of time, and not give the D the constant 3:2 potential point edge. It's bull jive to see a made bucket followed by the instant foul. Basketball is a miserable game to watch the moment that starts happening.I guess I don't mind the potential 3:2 advantage too much. It makes a game exciting if a team is down by one or two but beyond that it only marginally matters. Ie, if my team is down six it would take six repetitions of the 3:2 advantage to catch up. Even if the other team only shot 50% it would still take three repetitions of the 3:1 advantage and either way my team needs to hit a bunch of three point shots.
That's why I support the super penalty (2 plus ball) for a foul in the backcourt. Make the D play some defense for at least some amount of time, and not give the D the constant 3:2 potential point edge. It's bull jive to see a made bucket followed by the instant foul. Basketball is a miserable game to watch the moment that starts happening.Ooooooh! I really like this one.
go way back to NO shot clockHard pass.
you're too young to remember those gamesIt was brutal. You can find them on YouTube. Memphis State (at the time) v OU Elite 8 game (maybe '85) was a crime. Memphis couldn't hack OU's pace, so basically 4 cornered it the entire 2nd half.
I guess I don't mind the potential 3:2 advantage too much. It makes a game exciting if a team is down by one or two but beyond that it only marginally matters. Ie, if my team is down six it would take six repetitions of the 3:2 advantage to catch up. Even if the other team only shot 50% it would still take three repetitions of the 3:1 advantage and either way my team needs to hit a bunch of three point shots.I did consider this when thinking about this (several years ago). I would enforce the 2 + ball only after a missed shot, or made bucket. Once the ball advanced the timeline, you could not game it by calling timeouts and then inbounding in the back court. (We all watched that Bielema kickoff game vs PSU). talk about not playing in the spirit of the game. That's what the 'foul immediately' BS does to me, it's like a quirk in a video game which is easily exploited. #
I get the idea of applying it for a backcourt violation though because, as you said, that would cause a press and defense to actually be played for a few seconds. What would you do if the leading team had a bunch of timeouts left and used them after advancing the ball over the timeline to then inbound the ball back in the backcourt and use another 10 seconds of backcourt time? Would you be ok with that?
For me it's not so much the game that is being played. I mean, it's annoying and all that but there's more to it.That's the issue to me. Same with the number of review in the final minute. I hate automatic reviews across all sports. I'm fine with instant replay, but I think in all sports it should be 100% challenge based, with some limit on it or penalty (like a charged timeout) for getting it wrong.
It's the next game that I want to watch, but can't, or it's delayed by bulljive hoops (slop pool), like during the tourney. It sucks.
I'd venture to say Penn State was playing Top 20 basketball the last 3 weeks of the year. What I liked most about this NIT run was wins came against four P5 schools and normally good to very good AAC team. I'm not to say that all of the sudden this means PSU would have been a Sweet 16 team had they gotten in, but it's obviously an encouraging ending to the season after losing those 3 to end the regular season.I certainly pick them to beat MSU on a neutral court right now.
I'd venture to say Penn State was playing Top 20 basketball the last 3 weeks of the year. What I liked most about this NIT run was wins came against four P5 schools and normally good to very good AAC team. I'm not to say that all of the sudden this means PSU would have been a Sweet 16 team had they gotten in, but it's obviously an encouraging ending to the season after losing those 3 to end the regular season.What sucks for PSU (and, to a lesser extent Ohio State) is PSU's close (mostly) early losses:
What sucks for PSU (and, to a lesser extent Ohio State) is PSU's close (mostly) early losses:Well, and the fact that 4 of those 5 losses were bad losses. Close or not.I'm not sure how many of those PSU would have needed to win to make the big dance but all five certainly would have done it. How much do the Nits bring back next year?
- By one at home to Wisconsin on Dec 4
- By one at home to Rider on Dec 22
- By four at Indiana on Jan 9
- In OT at home to Minnesota on Jan 15
- By three at Purdue on Feb 18
The Big Ten's team in the 3 v. 3 tourney will be Nate Mason, JaeSean Tate, Vincent Edwards and Robert Johnson.Stupid Big Ten. Still can't count.
Well, and the fact that 4 of those 5 losses were bad losses. Close or not.They definitely were but the RPI (and therefore the committee) doesn't care in the least about bad "near losses". It is purely W's vs L's so if they had won those first four games by one point each instead of losing them close, they'd have EASILY been a tournament team. That might also have been enough to boost Ohio State up one line because those three losses to "non-tournament" Penn State would instead have been better looking losses to a fellow tournament team.
They definitely were but the RPI (and therefore the committee) doesn't care in the least about bad "near losses". It is purely W's vs L's so if they had won those first four games by one point each instead of losing them close, they'd have EASILY been a tournament team. That might also have been enough to boost Ohio State up one line because those three losses to "non-tournament" Penn State would instead have been better looking losses to a fellow tournament team.Well, they care about the caliber of the wins/losses. That's the whole basis of the quadrants. It's not so much that they lost a bunch of close game, MOV doesn't really seem to matter. But that 4 of the 5 losses were to tourney teams certainly don't help.
Well, they care about the caliber of the wins/losses. That's the whole basis of the quadrants. It's not so much that they lost a bunch of close game, MOV doesn't really seem to matter. But that 4 of the 5 losses were to tourney teams certainly don't help.That is my point. In the more sophisticated computer ranking systems (like Kenpom, sagrin, etc) there isn't THAT big of a difference between winning by one point or losing by one point. In the committee's apparently still favored RPI (which also determines the rankings for the quadrants) there is a HUMONGOUS difference between winning by one point and losing by one point because RPI only cares about W's and L's. A blow-out, 30 point win is exactly equivalent to a miraculous half-court heave to win by one point and a blow-out 30 point loss is exactly equivalent to a miraculous half-court heave to lose by one point.
According to Bart Torvik:Not “dumb”at all. How is the team doing down the stretch? “ the stretch” is what you are referring to, and what time frame could be more important?
Team rank since February 7:
I know picking a select time frame is often dumb, but Michigan's 14-0 stretch came from a very different team than the preceding version, so I'm posting it begrudgingly. Anyway, Michigan ranks #1 nationally over this stretch. I don't think many expected that and this includes myself.
http://barttorvik.com/trankslice.php?year=2018&sort=&conlimit=All&begin=20180207&end=20180501&top=&quad=4&mingames=1&venue=All&type=All&mint=0&maxt=200
Michigan: #1 Defense, #12 Offense
Villanova: #15 Defense, #2 Offense
The Women’s Final Four has been awesome. If the chick from ND that hit back to back buzzer beaters in the FF were a guy she would be a legend. As it stands, I’m calling her the “chick from ND.”I call her "former Wisconsin TB Dare Ogunbowale's younger sister" and leave it at that.
How did Butler, St. Johns, Providence, and Creighton ever beat Villanova?Villanova's A game is better than anybody else's A game. But nobody can bring their A game 40 times a year.
Villanova's A game is better than anybody else's A game. But nobody can bring their A game 40 times a year.That is the key because the example that@Temp430 posted for Villanova could be posted for any CBB team:
According to my phone Nova is a 7.5 point favorite so I'm going to say "told you so" to all of this post and hopefully enjoy a good game tonight.
- No, Michigan shouldn't "walk right off the court and congratulate the Villanova/Kansas winner. First off, Michigan is going to win. Loyola-Chicago has defeated a #6 by two, a #3 by one, a #7 by one, and a #9 by 16. Like Michigan, the Ramblers have beaten the teams on the other end of the court, but also like Michigan, they have gotten very lucky. They ducked the #1 (first ever #16 over #1 upset) and the #2 (lost to #7), and the #4 (lost to #13), and the #5 (lost to #9). The difference between the Ramblers and the Wolverines is that while the Ramblers are about to play the best opponent they have ever seen, the Wolverines are about to play their easiest opponent since Montana in the first round. After Michigan dispenses with the Ramblers they will get either Nova or Kansas in the NCG. I do believe that both the Wildcats and Jayhawks are better than the Wolverines but it isn't by anywhere near the margin by which all three of them are better than the Ramblers. Ie, I expect the Nova/Kansas winner to be favored over the Wolverines in the CG but I do not expect the Wildcats or Jayhawks to be a prohibitive favorite.
I'm bullish on Michigan this year. I think they have the right makeup (toughness, desire, coaching, experience) to go pretty far in this thing.Even a blind dog can find a bone.
For my kid, and for all my U of M buds on here, I wore my navy suit/maize tie to work today, and now sitting on my back patio here in Florida in maize tee shirt with blue shorts.While I'll be pulling for the Wolverines my conference affiliation & enthusiasm certainly has its limits.If I was to do THAT the Whoopee Wagon would be fetched and the nice young men in their clean white shirts would be tending to me
GO BLUE! GO BLUE! GO BLUE!
how's the blind dog's sniffer tonight?I think their man to man defense can throw a wrinkle in Nova's offense. It's key that the M defenders keep a hand in the face of every Nova player tonight. Can't allow good looks from 3 point range.
gonna take down mighty Nova?
While I'll be pulling for the Wolverines my conference affiliation & enthusiasm certainly has its limits.If I was to do THAT the Whoopee Wagon would be fetched and the nice young men in their clean white shirts would be tending to meI feel a little dirty for typing in Big Blue font, but I'm not crazy!
I think their man to man defense can throw a wrinkle in Nova's offense. It's key that the M defenders keep a hand in the face of every Nova player tonight. Can't allow good looks from 3 point range.taking this as a yes
DiVincenzo...my goodnessNo kidding. 6th man my ass. That kid was amazing.
I was off the grid more or less last week, so apologies if some already posted this.Yeah, this stuff is now in the 18/19 thread. Some of us were in that thread before others. WE welcomed Michigan last night.
Michael Finke Jr. and TeJon Lucas are joining Mark Smith in transferring from Illinois.
The 2018 class stands as of a few minutes ago:
Ayo Dosunmu, Alan Griffin, Tevian Jones, George Bezhanishvili and Samba Kane
2 open scholarships right now.
Illini that remain:
Trent Frazier, Aaron Jordan, Kipper Nichols, Greg Ebo, DaMonte Williams and Matic Vesel
My otherwise busted bracket does have Villanova winning it all.I had nova winning it all as well... So did others. However, they did better in the early rounds. Nothing like finishing slightly above the mean while choosing the winner.
(https://www.cfb51.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fcdn1.sbnation.com%2Fimported_assets%2F1668993%2Fu7QWcZD.png&hash=cd77bdcdd85bb3e1e5bc9b50aa02e071)
Yeah, this stuff is now in the 18/19 thread. Some of us were in that thread before others. WE welcomed Michigan last night.I guess I should have scrolled down a few...oops
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DgEo-OYX0AASHYQ.jpg)I think this belongs in the 2018-2019 thread (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?topic=3210.0).