CFB51 College Football Fan Community
The Power Five => Big Ten => Topic started by: TyphonInc on November 19, 2017, 04:06:09 PM
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It's here...
Boys and girls the biggest game for either team is upon them. OSU has already punched their ticket to Indy, and TTUN gets to play the role of spoiler.
Gut feeling; I'm thinking Hair-ball gets his marquee win they have been looking for.
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Sandbagger! :)
Is there any particular significance to leaving out the vowels, or is it just that you don't want to spell out the word? Just curious.
I think the game will be pretty tight for the first half, but believe tOSU will pull away a little bit late. Not a blowout or anything, but enough that Michigan won't be able to mount a threat in the 4th quarter. Should be fun to watch, though. This is always one of my favorites every season aside from my own team's games. Rivalry week is here!
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It's here...
Boys and girls the biggest game for either team is upon them. OSU has already punched their ticket to Indy, and TTUN gets to play the role of spoiler.
Gut feeling; I'm thinking Hair-ball gets his marquee win they have been looking for.
Same here. Angry team, loaded with talent, nothing to lose, home crowd. Has all the earmarks of a typical OSU v UM game that goes to the alleged underdog.
If I were a gambler, I would stick about $5000 on UM getting 13.
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Michigan is not winning this game.
Sorry sandbaggers.
The Wisconsin Effect will be in force once again.
Only Maryland (beat Indiana at home) and Indiana (beat Illinois away) have wins the week after they played Wisconsin.
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Thanks 847 so you just put the "NO WAY" whammie on us.Bastage.
PS - best wishes to Mrs.847.......but not in the CCG ;)
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I'm hoping Michigan can soften your boys up a little bit this coming weekend. But they ain't gonna win.
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I dunno the last road game didn't produce the desired results
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If we lose to okorn heaven help me. I'll wear an upside down W to Indianapolis.
I am interested to see how the OSU Rush game fairs against the team up north, if they have success it gives me hope for the following week. UM did a really nice job slowing down the Badgers.
UM is too 1 dimensional on offense to score enough. Unless okorn turns into Kyle Stanley hard to see UM getting much more than 20 points.
JT can throw 4 picks and still score 24, so I'm gonna take the Bucks 35-13. But, it's a 7 point game at half.
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If we lose to okorn heaven help me. I'll wear an upside down W to Indianapolis.
I am interested to see how the OSU Rush game fairs against the team up north, if they have success it gives me hope for the following week. UM did a really nice job slowing down the Badgers.
UM is too 1 dimensional on offense to score enough. Unless okorn turns into Kyle Stanley hard to see UM getting much more than 20 points.
JT can throw 4 picks and still score 24, so I'm gonna take the Bucks 35-13. But, it's a 7 point game at half.
182 yards rushing ain't slowing down anyone.
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If we lose to okorn heaven help me. I'll wear an upside down W to Indianapolis.
I am interested to see how the OSU Rush game fairs against the team up north, if they have success it gives me hope for the following week. UM did a really nice job slowing down the Badgers.
UM is too 1 dimensional on offense to score enough. Unless okorn turns into Kyle Stanley hard to see UM getting much more than 20 points.
JT can throw 4 picks and still score 24, so I'm gonna take the Bucks 35-13. But, it's a 7 point game at half.
A well placed pick six, a punt return or punt block...a couple of offensive TDs. Michigan can EASILY score more than 20.
Plus, you may recall last year OSU had a hell of a time moving the ball on them.
I expect Michigan to run right at OSU and throw the kitchen sink in there. Screens, reverses, misdirection.
Ohio State better bring there "A" game on defense, and their mistake free offense.
Don't fall into the trap of one team looking better on paper. Not in this series.
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all depends on if Peters is cleared from concussion protocol and plays. Michigan has no shot with O'Korn. Nobody on that team believes in O'Korn even a fraction of a percent. O'Korn sucks. A lot. I think deep down they all know he's a bum. You saw the defense fall apart after Peters got carted off. Got the life sucked out of them. They were a completely different team after he left the ball game. Michigan was pretty much controlling that game and once he got knocked out they just collapsed.
Michigan will have a shot against Ohio State if Peters is starting. If O'Korn gets the start because Peters can't go- Ohio State by 13 isn't enough. If O'Korn gets named the starter I am betting big on Ohio State. They'll win by at least 21 with O'Korn starting.
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182 yards rushing ain't slowing down anyone.
84 on 2 carries, one of which was from a WR. 8 tackles for loss and 3 sacks.
I'm not saying UW was completely shut down, Wiscy did what they had to do. but for UW to reach it's goals of winning the BIG and winning in the playoffs, they probably need to rush for 250 yards in their next 3-4 games.
anyways, just my opinion, but I thought the UM defense played a pretty good game, they were hitting Taylor a lot in the backfield, he still had a nice game, but the one thing Ohio State has done this year is get TFL, and seeing UM do that in camp randall gave me more hope about Indy.
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Chic Harley guided the 1919 Buckeyes to the first victory over Ttun in school history.
(https://www.cfb51.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fbentley.umich.edu%2Fathdept%2Ffootball%2Fumosu%2Fimages%2F1919osu.jpg&hash=d5b880fcee341eb6f1be0744084b68f1)
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A well placed pick six, a punt return or punt block...a couple of offensive TDs. Michigan can EASILY score more than 20.
Plus, you may recall last year OSU had a hell of a time moving the ball on them.
I expect Michigan to run right at OSU and throw the kitchen sink in there. Screens, reverses, misdirection.
Ohio State better bring there "A" game on defense, and their mistake free offense.
Don't fall into the trap of one team looking better on paper. Not in this series.
Oh I agree, I think the UM defense and special teams can make this a game. but I don't see the UM offense with Okorn scoring 20. the defense, kicking game could get one, Ohio State's special teams have been a mess most of the season.
Ohio State's offense has been sporadic as well, so I wouldn't be surprised to see a 17-10 type game going into the 4th quarter. but I think the Ohio State running attack with even a little bit of a passing game will be enough to score at worst 24. I just can't see UM getting there with Okorn. with Peters, sure, but not with Okorn.
believe me, I haven't forgotten the Cooper years. I know being the favorite doesn't mean a whole lot in this game, especially if UM can grab an early lead it will most likely be a dog fight. but if UM falls behind early, allowing Ohio State to really pound the run game, I think it'll be enough to get the W.
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Should be an interesting game. OSU is probably the best offense UM will have faced, with the caveat that I think PSU matches up better against Michigan than OSU does. The biggest question mark is whether they can get open receivers anywhere. Barrett doesn't like to throw into coverage, so if they can't spring anyone free it could be a long day.
Still waiting on the QB situation for the Wolverines. Biggest plus matchup for OSU is their D-line against Michigan's o-line. Michigan doesn't throw quickly and doesn't pass protect all that well, so getting pressure is a must. Behind them is anyone's guess on whether the linebackers and safeties know what they are doing. Harbaugh must try and get them confused, as they have been before.
Michigan is the deserved underdog but has a chance to win if they can keep running the ball and the defense keeps it under control. If they have to chuck it every down will be a long day.
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Has been a very busy time the last few months for me, have not be able to post as much, but.......................MICHIGAN STILL SUCKS! :)
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As an Ohio State fan, this year is probably the least I've ever cared about this game. Understand that "least" is a relative term and I do still badly want to beat Michigan but relative to other years, not as much for three reasons:
- The Buckeyes have already clinched a berth in the B1GCG so there is no issue there unlike many past years where we needed a win (and possibly some help).
- Ohio State's CFP chances are relatively slim even with winning out so there doesn't seem to be much urgency there.
- Even if Ohio State does win out and get to the CFP I just don't like the Buckeye's chances. The Iowa and Oklahoma debacles just don't give me a strong feeling that our team could go out and win back-to-back games against Bama/Miami/Oklahoma/Clemson/Georgia type teams.
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Be nice to see DudeK & BamaBuck resurface this week
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I hope it continues this weekend, but there has been a serious lack of upsets in this series lately.
- Ohio State won the last five as the favorite and better team.
- Michigan won in 2011 as the favorite and better team.
- Ohio State won seven straight from 2004-2010 and they were the favorite and better team in all but 2004.
- Ohio State was arguably a better team in 2003 but it was close so even if that was an upset it wasn't much of one.
- Ohio State won as the favorite and better team in 2002.
- Ohio State won a big upset in 2001.
In the last 16 years there have been only two or maybe three upsets in this series. I hope we keep it that way this weekend.
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Yeah, this Century has gone a lot better for the Buckeyes than either of the last two by just about every metric, except number of losses.
OSU only had one loss to Ttun in the 19th Century, but they also played only one game. 1897, the worst season in school history.
Interestingly enough that was the only year that OSU didn't play Kenyon before joining the Big Ten, who was the primary rival in those days.
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per Harbaugh presser via Detroit Free Press:
starting CB LaVert Hill cleared of concussion protocol, will play vs Ohio State.
Brandon Peters is still in concussion protocol, had cardio and lifting tests, if he's symptom free on Tuesday he could be back in no-contact practices by Weds. We'll all know pretty soon whether he's playing or not.
Not sure I'd play him against that Ohio State DL. Michigan's pass protection is a complete mess. I'd really hate to see the kid get injured seriously and have to miss bowl practices and spring practices. Those sets of practices are absolutely vital to a young player trying to establish himself and improve.
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- Ohio State won seven straight from 2004-2010 and they were the favorite and better team in all but 2004.
call me crazy but I consider 2006 a bit of an upset. I really thought going into that game Michigan was the better team. It's not just revisionist history or me being a homer. I really thought Michigan had more quality upperclass NFL talent at the time. That team was absolutely loaded with 1st and 2nd round picks. LaMarr Woodley, Leon Hall, Alan Branch, David Harris, and Shawn Crable- that's 5 starters on the defense drafted 1st or 2nd. Then other starters like DT Terrance Taylor, LB Prescott Burgess and CB Morgan Trent were drafted late as well- Taylor in the 4th, Burgess in the 6th, and Trent in the 6th. 8 out of their starting 11 on D got drafted though. Then you had a couple rotational guys in the two deep get drafted down the road as well.
The Michigan defense just got completely punked by Troy Smith that day. They just did not have an answer for him that day. He dominated them and that's what won him that Heisman.
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Series by Decade
1890s Ttun went 1-0 vs OSU
1900s Ttun went 9-0-1 vs OSU
/began playing annually in 1900, which was the year they tied.
1910s Ttun went 3-1-1 vs OSU
/The series took a hiatus from 1913-1917, has been played every year since 1918.
//Ttun went 2-0-1 vs OSU pre-Big Ten, 1-1 in Conference
1920s Ttun went 6-4 vs OSU
1930s The series was tied 5-5
/The Gold Pants tradition began in 1934 when THE GAME was moved to the end of the season.
//OSU won the first four season cappers.
1940s Ttun went 6-2-2 vs OSU
1950s The series was tied 5-5
1960s OSU went 7-3 vs Ttun
/Ten Year War began in 1969
1970s OSU went 5-4-1 vs Ttun
/Bo won the Ten Year War 5-4-1
//Archie Griffin was 3-0-1 in the Ten Year War
1980s Ttun went 6-4 vs OSU
1990s Ttun went 7-2-1 vs OSU
2000s OSU went 8-2 vs Ttun
2010s (so far) OSU has gone 6-1 vs Ttun
/OSU has gone 3-0 vs Ttun in the B1G East
//OSU went 2-1 vs Michigan when they were fixed crossover rivals
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A well placed pick six, a punt return or punt block...a couple of offensive TDs. Michigan can EASILY score more than 20.
Plus, you may recall last year OSU had a hell of a time moving the ball on them.
I expect Michigan to run right at OSU and throw the kitchen sink in there. Screens, reverses, misdirection.
Ohio State better bring there "A" game on defense, and their mistake free offense.
Don't fall into the trap of one team looking better on paper. Not in this series.
Oh I agree, I think the UM defense and special teams can make this a game. but I don't see the UM offense with Okorn scoring 20. the defense, kicking game could get one, Ohio State's special teams have been a mess most of the season.
Ohio State's offense has been sporadic as well, so I wouldn't be surprised to see a 17-10 type game going into the 4th quarter. but I think the Ohio State running attack with even a little bit of a passing game will be enough to score at worst 24. I just can't see UM getting there with Okorn. with Peters, sure, but not with Okorn.
believe me, I haven't forgotten the Cooper years. I know being the favorite doesn't mean a whole lot in this game, especially if UM can grab an early lead it will most likely be a dog fight. but if UM falls behind early, allowing Ohio State to really pound the run game, I think it'll be enough to get the W.
When I recall OSUs last road game, a team not known for offense dropped 55 on them.
This will be a war. That Michigan defense will be living in our backfield.
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When I recall OSUs last road game, a team not known for offense dropped 55 on them.
This will be a war. That Michigan defense will be living in our backfield.
Michigan's pass protection is absolute garbage. OSU front 7 will be able to get to the QB at will. O'Korn sucks. A lot. Michigan has a small shot if Peters comes back healthy. Unfortunately I don't see him staying up right if he is back, because the pass protection has been that bad. The OL/TE/RBs have not worked in unison at all, and it completely baffles me as to why they haven't been able to fix it. They need to dumb things down and simplify and they need to run more screens and quit hitting passes to get the ball out quicker and they need to use more 3 TE sets and keep 2 of the TEs to block. They just need to change something scheme wise or personnel wise for the pass protection because it is atrocious. Worst I've ever seen.
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Judging from Coach Harbaugh's presser yesterday it does not sound like Peters will be back. He did say that Speight practiced last week but was not cleared for contact and was waiting to hear if he'll be cleared this week, to paraphrase, so likely no Speight either. I think O'Korn is Michigan's most elusive QB, ie. has the best quickness-survival-flight instinct combo, and may give Michigan the best chance to win which isn't much of a chance. If O'Korn gets knocked out, you'll be looking at Malzone as the QB. A better strategy might be to go wildcat with a RB and FB and the other 9 players all TEs or linemen. I mean, what's the point of fielding WRs? It kind of feels like it did in 2008 with Sheridan at QB but I think the OL was better then.
Go Blue!
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When I recall OSUs last road game, a team not known for offense dropped 55 on them.
This will be a war. That Michigan defense will be living in our backfield.
I thought about the Iowa game before posting this, but I think/believe they didn't respect Iowa. Now, that's not the only reason they lost, forgetting that we have 2 RB's on the team didn't help etc.
But Ohio State is not going to go into THE GAME sleepwalking. they will be ready. the defense will be jacked up etc. sure, UM can probably hurt us with some TE shots etc, but Akron Wadley doesn't play for UM, nor any back close to his caliber. And Nate Stanley is a helluva lot better than Okorn. You gotta give Iowa's O line credit, they whipped our D line that day. I just don't see that happening with UM's O line. they will have some moments, but overall I can't see them slowing down this D line enough to score over 20.
The Michigan defense I agree can cause us some problems, but we have the talent to expose them if we call a good game. They'll get some TFL for sure, their D line is too good not too. but they're also gonna be on the field a lot because their offense wont get it done. eventually Ohio State will wear them out.
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call me crazy but I consider 2006 a bit of an upset. I really thought going into that game Michigan was the better team. It's not just revisionist history or me being a homer. I really thought Michigan had more quality upperclass NFL talent at the time. That team was absolutely loaded with 1st and 2nd round picks. LaMarr Woodley, Leon Hall, Alan Branch, David Harris, and Shawn Crable- that's 5 starters on the defense drafted 1st or 2nd. Then other starters like DT Terrance Taylor, LB Prescott Burgess and CB Morgan Trent were drafted late as well- Taylor in the 4th, Burgess in the 6th, and Trent in the 6th. 8 out of their starting 11 on D got drafted though. Then you had a couple rotational guys in the two deep get drafted down the road as well.
The Michigan defense just got completely punked by Troy Smith that day. They just did not have an answer for him that day. He dominated them and that's what won him that Heisman.
Ok, I think you are crazy.
For one thing I wouldn't have called that an upset either way. Both teams came into the game at 11-0/7-0 so whoever won was going to leave with a better record. An upset in this series, at least in general to me, is defined as a game in which the winning team leaves the game with a worse conference record. In 2006 Ohio State won and left the game 12-0/8-0. Upsets:
- In 2004 Ohio State won and finished 4-4 while Michigan lost and finished 7-1
- In 2001 Ohio State won and finished 5-3 while Michigan lost and finished 6-2
- In 1996 Michigan won and finished 5-3 while Ohio State lost and finished 7-1
- In 1995 Michigan won and finished 5-3 while Ohio State lost and finished 7-1
- In 1993 Michigan won and finished 5-3 while Ohio State lost and finished 6-1-1
- In 1987 Ohio State won and finished 4-4 while Michigan lost and finished 5-3
As far as that year specifically:
The neutral voters thought Ohio State was better coming into The Game and going out of The Game and in the final poll after both teams lost their bowls.
Both teams missed Purdue that year. Michigan had a tougher conference slate because the other team they missed was Illinois while the other team that Ohio State missed was Wisconsin. Comparing the six common conference opponents:
| Opponent | tOSU PS | tOSU PA | tOSU MoV | M PS | M PA | M MoV | tOSU-M PS | tOSU-M PA | tOSU-M MoV |
| PSU | 28 | 6 | 22 | 17 | 10 | 7 | 11 | 4 | 15 |
| Iowa | 38 | 17 | 21 | 20 | 6 | 14 | 18 | -11 | 7 |
| MSU | 38 | 7 | 31 | 31 | 13 | 18 | 7 | 6 | 13 |
| IU | 44 | 3 | 41 | 34 | 3 | 31 | 10 | 0 | 10 |
| MN | 44 | 0 | 44 | 28 | 14 | 14 | 16 | 14 | 30 |
| NU | 54 | 10 | 44 | 17 | 3 | 14 | 37 | -7 | 30 |
| | | | | | | | | |
| Total | 246 | 43 | 203 | 147 | 49 | 98 | 99 | 6 | 105 |
Ohio State scored more points against and had a larger margin of victory against all six. Defensively it was a bit closer. Ohio State did better against three (PSU, MSU, MN) while Michigan did better against two (Iowa and NU) and each team held Indiana to a FG. Still, Ohio State did better defensively overall.
Against the six common conference opponents Ohio State had a 105 point better MoV by scoring 99 more points and giving up 6 less. In order to believe that 2006 Michigan was better than 2006 Ohio State you have to be either crazy or a homer engaging in revisionist history.
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The First game in the Shoe. 1922
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DPLVcL-WkAAztf9.jpg)
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Should be an interesting game. OSU is probably the best offense UM will have faced, with the caveat that I think PSU matches up better against Michigan than OSU does. The biggest question mark is whether they can get open receivers anywhere. Barrett doesn't like to throw into coverage, so if they can't spring anyone free it could be a long day.
So thirty posts into The Game thread and this is thus far the only mention of JT Barrett, whom it's easy enough to say The Game comes down to. Putting aside Michigan's setbacks on offense, what about Ohio State's? I think you hit on the key - if Michigan can force Barrett into an off day I like their chances. And after his horrible performances against Oklahoma and Iowa, Barrett at some point - this week or next - is due for another nightmare.
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So thirty posts into The Game thread and this is thus far the only mention of JT Barrett, whom it's easy enough to say The Game comes down to. Putting aside Michigan's setbacks on offense, what about Ohio State's? I think you hit on the key - if Michigan can force Barrett into an off day I like their chances. And after his horrible performances against Oklahoma and Iowa, Barrett at some point - this week or next - is due for another nightmare.
This is obviously important to the Ohio State offense. However, overall, I think the Michigan QB situation is more important because I think that Ohio State's running game is better. Thus, at least in theory, Ohio State could win this game without much contribution from their passing game.
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Tough call on JTB I'd rather see him take off & run than force anything.He has 2 good RB's so there's that.Hope the contest is as tight as last years
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Tough call on JTB I'd rather see him take off & run than force anything.He has 2 good RB's so there's that.Hope the contest is as tight as last years
Exactly, I do not want to see him getting 25-30 carries. If he is doing that, than something is very very wrong with the play calling/offense. We should be seeing a lot of Weber and Dobbins, in that order. I would rather wear Weber out in this game and save JK for Wisconsin. We need to see a very very sound QB performance from JT. He is a team leader and knows the importance of this game. Also, lets not have a repeat of the last time we played Michigan, with Wisonsin luming, because I do not think we have a 3rd string guy who could do what we witnessed!
Weather being a non factor, Ohio State should take of business, and I disagree that the Freshman is their best bet at QB, I look to see Willy under center, with Jimmy Football playing his typical non informative self. Looking forward to Saturday!
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I'll be in Nashville during the game. I'm familiar with the honky tonks, but not so much a good place to watch a game. Any tips?
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They used to have a sports bar called The Checkered Endzone.
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I'm getting more worried about this game. It just seems OSU fans are really confident, and M*ch has a big chip on their shoulder.
I really think the bad guys are going to win, and am just hoping it's not an embarrassing defeat like the last 3 losses have been.
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(https://i.imgur.com/AZOvRCi.jpg)
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As an Ohio State fan, this year is probably the least I've ever cared about this game. Understand that "least" is a relative term and I do still badly want to beat Michigan but relative to other years, not as much for three reasons:
- The Buckeyes have already clinched a berth in the B1GCG so there is no issue there unlike many past years where we needed a win (and possibly some help).
- Ohio State's CFP chances are relatively slim even with winning out so there doesn't seem to be much urgency there.
- Even if Ohio State does win out and get to the CFP I just don't like the Buckeye's chances. The Iowa and Oklahoma debacles just don't give me a strong feeling that our team could go out and win back-to-back games against Bama/Miami/Oklahoma/Clemson/Georgia type teams.
Slim? Hmm, I guess that's a relative term but if Ohio St, Oklahoma, Alabama, and Miami win out I think that is your 4 teams. Maybe the chances of all four winning out is slim but it's certainly a possibility. I'd be fired up for the next two games if I were you.
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yup, obviously Urban has spoiled Buck fans, but anytime you have a chance this late in the season to possibly get into the top 4
it's a huge deal
ya never know what could happen in a 4 team playoff
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GO BUCKS!!!
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I'm exited for the game, and consider Michigan wins to be just as rewarding as Big Ten Titles.
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(https://i.imgur.com/AZOvRCi.jpg)
First of all that's a bad angle- because you can't even see the ball. All you see is his left hand. Doesn't matter where his left hand is. It matters where the football is. Show the pictures from the other angle and you'll see the ball. yellow made for tv line wasn't where he needed to get the first down. Often times that yellow line isn't accurate, just a best guesstimate by the televisions. Ball needed to get across the white line completely- the 15- for a first. He didn't get across the 15. His left hand/wrist did and touched the ground- meaning he's down- but his right hand carrying the call- well short of the 15. Probably close to a foot short. He didn't get it. Refs bungled it. It is what it is.
EDIT: As much as you want to blame the refs you can't. Michigan fumbled the ball on OSU's 2 yard line wiping away a probable 7 points for Michigan, and Speight threw a pick 6 and another pick that was essential a pick 6 because it gave OSU a first and goal and they punched the ball in a couple plays later. That's a 21 point swing right there. Can't turn it over 3 times and give the other team 14 points off of two pick 6's and expect to win.
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Bullshit the ball had to crack the 15 which it did and ESPN's Ref said he had it and the ref who made the call was from....Meeechiigan
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love it
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Bullshit the ball had to crack the 15 which it did and ESPN's Ref he had it and the ref who made the call was from....Meeechiigan
ESPN's ref? What do you mean?
Ball never cracked the 15. It was clear as day, it was at least a foot short. Forget the yellow line. Ball had to completely cross the white line for a first. It never did.
(https://www.cfb51.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fmediad.publicbroadcasting.net%2Fp%2Fmichigan%2Ffiles%2Fstyles%2Fmedium%2Fpublic%2F201611%2Fmichigan-ohio-state-2016-spotgate.jpg&hash=1e7c4781a07d834510f82a1f38bf43b6)
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It did too stop photoshopping at MGOboard.ESPN has a Ref they refer to for officiating questions.Oh and Chris Fowler said their replay in the booth indicated he did.Your photo shows JT falling back after the fact
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ESPN's ref? What do you mean?
Ball never cracked the 15. It was clear as day, it was at least a foot short. Forget the yellow line. Ball had to completely cross the white line for a first. It never did.
(https://www.cfb51.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fmediad.publicbroadcasting.net%2Fp%2Fmichigan%2Ffiles%2Fstyles%2Fmedium%2Fpublic%2F201611%2Fmichigan-ohio-state-2016-spotgate.jpg&hash=1e7c4781a07d834510f82a1f38bf43b6)
I was under the impression that the nose of the ball, at its forward most point, is where it should be spotted. So, it did not have to completely cross the 15...just had to reach it.
Even in your pics, which are clearly of him falling back after( unless you are going to claim he dove forward sideways with his left hip) looks like that happened.
Either way, there was no evidence to overturn it. They confirmed it, and the Big Ten office stood behind it.
Michigan had OSU in a third and 9 on the play before, and Curtis Samuel got 8 when UM had him pinned in for a loss. Just a great individual play.
And let's not forget, the play in question did not end the game.
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Blaming the refs is a cop out.
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It did too stop photoshopping at MGOboard.ESPN has a Ref they refer to for officiating questions.Oh and Chris Fowler said their replay in the booth indicated he did.Your photo shows JT falling back after the fact
That picture wasn't photo shopped. The first one that Buckeye fan posted in here that I responded too was photo shopped though. Look at the hash marks in that picture.
Oh that moron Chris Fowler said it, must be true. *Roll eye emjoi*
Didn't get the 1st. Still won the game. It happens.
I don't blame the refs. I blame Wilton Speight 70% first and foremost for sucking ass. And I blame Harbaugh next most like 29% for acting like a complete psychopath and losing his cool- and for some questionable play-calling. I only blame the refs 1%.
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I was under the impression that the nose of the ball, at its forward most point, is where it should be spotted. So, it did not have to completely cross the 15...just had to reach it.
Even in your pics, it looks like that happened.
Either way, there was no evidence to overturn it. They confirmed it, and the Big Ten office stood behind it.
Michigan had OSU in a third and 9 on the play before, and Curtis Samuel got 8 when UM had him pinned in for a loss. Just a great individual play.
And let's not forget, the play in question did not end the game.
of course B1G was going to stand behind it...c'mon. They are not going to throw their refs under the bus and call into question the integrity of their own conference.
That play was 4th and 1 in OT. If it's called short, game over. That was the biggest single call in the history of The Game maybe.
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Blaming the refs is a cop out.
I don't blame the refs. I mostly blame Wilton Speight. Thought he was garbage before that game. That game just re-inforced that belief. He's a big strong kid with a nice deep ball and questionable arm strength, really shitty pocket presence, lacks a natural feel for the position, has terrible decision making, and spotty accuracy. Basically: he sucks.
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of course B1G was going to stand behind it...c'mon. They are not going to throw their refs under the bus and call into question the integrity of their own conference.
That play was 4th and 1 in OT. If it's called short, game over. That was the biggest single call in the history of The Game maybe.
It was a big call. If it had gone the other way, game over, and I would not have been able to say the spot was bad. It was that close...not a foot short.
I remember thinking at the time, I kind of wanted Meyer to take the FG and get it to another OT. But with two short missed FGs already, he probably felt it was his best chance.
If I were a UM fan, I would probably feel like he was short, and would be pretty bummed.
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It was a big call. If it had gone the other way, game over, and I would not have been able to say the spot was bad. It was that close...not a foot short.
I remember thinking at the time, I kind of wanted Meyer to take the FG and get it to another OT. But with two short missed FGs already, he probably felt it was his best chance.
If I were a UM fan, I would probably feel like he was short, and would be pretty bummed.
Meyer has some brass balls. 99.9% of coaches would've just kicked the FG. It was a pretty short FG attempt. Must've been like 31 yard attempt, no?
I think most coaches in that situation would've kicked the FG. Gotta give him credit for trusting his QB. I don't think a lot of coaches make that call. Was the right call bc he won the game. Doesn't matter how you win, all that matters is you win. Like Al Davis said, just win baby.
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That picture wasn't photo shopped. The first one that Buckeye fan posted in here that I responded too was photo shopped though. Look at the hash marks in that picture.
Oh that moron Chris Fowler said it, must be true. *Roll eye emjoi*
Didn't get the 1st. Still won the game. It happens.
He got it - the ball has to break the plane of the yard line in question.How many times have you watched the refs stretch the chains out and the nose of the ball is over?He got it with the initial push,Good Luck Saturday
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Anyway- I expect a war. Everytime Michigan gets the ball near their own 40 or better, I expect them to sling it deeptp DPJ. Nothing to lose. Hit one or two, or get a PI, or if nothing else, loosen up the run defense
Also expect them to sling it on first down A LOT.
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He got it - the ball has to break the plane of the yard line in question.How many times have you watched the refs stretch the chains out and the nose of the ball is over?He got it with the initial push,Good Luck Saturday
need more than luck. Only luck that could help is maybe- Andrew Luck lol. Michigan has very little shot in this game.
Peters is out. O'Korn is horrible. He's really, really bad. One of the worst QB's I have ever seen at Michigan. Honestly don't know how he's stuck on the roster. Think they'd have a better shot trying out Alex Malzone. It would be pretty EFFING hilarious to see you guys lose to O'Korn though. I think the Buckeye internet message boards would absolutely melt down. "WE LOST TO O'KORN!!! FIRE MEYER!!!!" The crazies would really come out.
Small shot Speight might be able to go, but even so Speight has been terrible when he's played lately. I don't think even I realized how bad he has been. You have to really break down the raw #'s- and I threw in the spring game because to me his play is a pattern- he's just not good. At all.
Last 3 games of Speight's 2016: 55 completions, 100 attempts (55%), 3 TD's vs. 4 INT's (1 pick 6), 1 Fumble, 44.06 Adjusted QBR
Speight 2017 spring game stats: 9 completions, 26 attempts, (35%), 0 TD's vs. 2 INT's (a 100 yard pick 6)
Speight's first 4 games of 2017: 44 completions, 81 attempts, (54.3%), 3 TD's vs. 2 INT's (2 pick 6's) 23.5 Adjusted QBR
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Anyway- I expect a war. Everytime Michigan gets the ball near their own 40 or better, I expect them to sling it deeptp DPJ. Nothing to lose. Hit one or two, or get a PI, or if nothing else, loosen up the run defense
Also expect them to sling it on first down A LOT.
DPJ is going to be a star, I really believe that. He flashes huge talent. Passes the eye test. But he's not ready just yet. More athlete than receiver right now. Hasn't developed a chemistry with a QB. Peters finally hit him on a deep ball against Wisconsin- thought they were starting to click a little bit that game, then Peters gets hurt.
I don't think O'Korn can get him the ball. O'Korn is a dumb football player. I don't mean he's a dumb jock or a dumb person. Not what I mean at all. I simply mean, he plays the game dumb. He can't read a defense and go through his progressions quickly if his life depended on it. He throws a nice ball and he's got an above average arm, but he doesn't have the Favre/Stafford arm to make those river boat gambler throws late into tight windows. Yeah...you need that kind of rocket launcher arm that only a handful of people alive have to make those sort of throws. His arm is nowhere remotely close to that- yet he still tries those throws- dumb football.
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so just read an interesting rumor...don't know if it's true at all but....
Ole' Miss QB Shea Patterson to attend the Michigan-Ohio State game as a fan in the stands?
Patterson is originally from the Toledo, OH area. Grew up in a Michigan family, his Dad even had season tickets. Patterson's family moved to Texas for work, and then Louisiana- played high school ball in those two states before transferring to that super-school IMG in Florida for his senior year. Michigan never really recruited him- he committed to play for RichRod at Arizona as a freshman and then flipped to Ole Miss down the line after Ole Miss hired his brother.
Patterson was the #1 rated QB in the 2016 class and the #4 overall player in the 247Composite. He was suppose to redshirt in 2016 until starting QB Chad Kelly tore his ACL and Patterson finished the last 3 games of 2016 as Ole Miss' starting QB. He was the starter this year until he went down with a knee injury in October and missed the rest of 2017.
Might be something to watch....coach that recruited him fired in Hugh Freeze- and if Ole Miss gets hit by the NCAA he'd be able to transfer and play right away and not have to sit.
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need more than luck. Only luck that could help is maybe- Andrew Luck lol. Michigan has very little shot in this game.
Peters is out. O'Korn is horrible. He's really, really bad. One of the worst QB's I have ever seen at Michigan. Honestly don't know how he's stuck on the roster. Think they'd have a better shot trying out Alex Malzone. It would be pretty EFFING hilarious to see you guys lose to O'Korn though. I think the Buckeye internet message boards would absolutely melt down. "WE LOST TO O'KORN!!! FIRE MEYER!!!!" The crazies would really come out.
M has had some bad luck/play under center.Laugh but if Okorn can piece together just one consistent afternoon it's very plausible.I've seen him turn into Steve Young a play or two just has to string it out.If Don Brown can force JT up top it turns into a contest.If I'm Urban - run it
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Anyway- I expect a war. Everytime Michigan gets the ball near their own 40 or better, I expect them to sling it deeptp DPJ. Nothing to lose. Hit one or two, or get a PI, or if nothing else, loosen up the run defense
Also expect them to sling it on first down A LOT.
Who's side are you on?That might work so shut up already.
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DPJ is going to be a star, I really believe that. He flashes huge talent. Passes the eye test. But he's not ready just yet. More athlete than receiver right now. Hasn't developed a chemistry with a QB. Peters finally hit him on a deep ball against Wisconsin- thought they were starting to click a little bit that game, then Peters gets hurt.
What about Nico Collins?
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I'll be in Nashville during the game. I'm familiar with the honky tonks, but not so much a good place to watch a game. Any tips?
I wish I could remember the name of the place we were at for the 2007 board meeting.
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What about Nico Collins?
he's dealt with nagging injuries in camp and was behind Tarik Black and DPJ to start the season. Caught 1 pass against Rutgers got re-injured, haven't seen him since. Hard to really get a read on Nico. He hasn't had the playing time/opportunities that Black and DPJ have had.
I've seen enough flashes from Black and DPJ to think both of them are Sunday receivers. Might be hard for Nico Collins to get passes to come his way. Harbaugh's offense likes to establish the run and get TE's involved in the passing game as well. Only so many balls for WR's to go around. Black comes back healthy next year and he and DPJ are your probable outside receivers next year, Grant Perry and McDoom the guys in the slot, and you know Harbaugh will want to run the ball and throw to the TE's as well. Nico might not see a whole lot of passes come his way in 2018.
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yup, obviously Urban has spoiled Buck fans, but anytime you have a chance this late in the season to possibly get into the top 4
it's a huge deal
ya never know what could happen in a 4 team playoff
Jim Tressel spoiled OSU Fans! Urban has been able to keep the training rolling down the tracks.............
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I guess the same could be said about Woody!
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I wish I could remember the name of the place we were at for the 2007 board meeting.
@MaximumSam (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=1572)
I found it. Mid Town Tavern. 1904 Broadway, near Vandy. Great place. Lots of TV's and good food. Enjoy.
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found it in the deep dark recesses?
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found it in the deep dark recesses?
It was buried in there and then I took a ride down the street with Google Maps. Found it.
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nice work
the internet is good for more than just message board buddies
enjoy your thanksgiving weekend with family
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@MaximumSam (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=1572)
I found it. Mid Town Tavern. 1904 Broadway, near Vandy. Great place. Lots of TV's and good food. Enjoy.
Hey thanks! We might make it there. Is there any public transportation in Nashville? I would hoof it but not sure my wife likes that idea. But as long as we're buzzed maybe she won't notice
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First of all that's a bad angle- because you can't even see the ball. All you see is his left hand. Doesn't matter where his left hand is. It matters where the football is. Show the pictures from the other angle and you'll see the ball. yellow made for tv line wasn't where he needed to get the first down. Often times that yellow line isn't accurate, just a best guesstimate by the televisions. Ball needed to get across the white line completely- the 15- for a first. He didn't get across the 15. His left hand/wrist did and touched the ground- meaning he's down- but his right hand carrying the call- well short of the 15. Probably close to a foot short. He didn't get it. Refs bungled it. It is what it is.
EDIT: As much as you want to blame the refs you can't. Michigan fumbled the ball on OSU's 2 yard line wiping away a probable 7 points for Michigan, and Speight threw a pick 6 and another pick that was essential a pick 6 because it gave OSU a first and goal and they punched the ball in a couple plays later. That's a 21 point swing right there. Can't turn it over 3 times and give the other team 14 points off of two pick 6's and expect to win.
It appears that the biggest issue here isn't homers thinking that it should have been called their team's way but rather a simple misunderstanding of the rule. Mdot, your interpretation that I bolded/underlined is flat wrong. Allow me to explain:
When considering a TD, remember that the goal line is INSIDE the end zone. In determining whether or not a player has scored, the player only needs to get any part of the ball over the goal line.
Thus, when OT begins, the ball is placed such that the nose of the ball (part closest to the end zone) it right at the side of the 25 yard line that is furthest from the goal line (ie, closer to the 26 rather than the 24).
You are correct that the yellow line is often inaccurate but in this case it is also completely irrelevant. This series of downs started with the portion of the ball closest to the end zone exactly at the portion of the 25 yard line furthest from the end zone. Consequently, what Ohio State needed to do was to get any part of the ball over any part of the 15 yard line.
By rule, an NCAA football is 10.5 - 11.5 inches in length. I do not believe there is a rule as to yard-line width but I would say that they are at least 3".
Thus, when you said that Barrett needed to get completely across the 15 yard line and that he was probably close to a foot short, you effectively admitted that he got the first down. Your understanding of what Barrett needed was off by at least 13.5" (the minimum 10.5" length of the ball plus the at least 3" width of the 15 yard line. If Barrett was a full foot short of what you thought he needed to get, then he got the first down.
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Hey thanks! We might make it there. Is there any public transportation in Nashville? I would hoof it but not sure my wife likes that idea. But as long as we're buzzed maybe she won't notice
Uber is your friend in Nashville. Very cheap (compared to here). Check out Adele's for dinner if you can.
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If that's the place for our 2008 board meeting than that's a good one. Our bill had to be over $1G for the group. Waitress was a pro.
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Bloody Espn Classic is showing the 2011 game.
The one loss that OSU has had in the series since 2003, and that's the one that the pick.
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If that's the place for our 2008 board meeting than that's a good one. Our bill had to be over $1G for the group. Waitress was a pro.
Yep, she was great. My invoice alone was $450, but I bought a ton of rounds. We had to have at least 20 people in there that day, if not more.
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Bloody Espn Classic is showing the 2011 game.
The one loss that OSU has had in the series since 2003, and that's the one that the pick.
I blame Harbaugh
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So if I have this right now, I guess 2007 was Lincoln? 2006 was Austin and the first one in 2005 was Madison. 2008 Nashville, 2009 Columbia, 2010 back in Madison. 2011 Fayetteville, 2012 Atlanta and 2013 Knoxville. Then crickets.
There needs to be a new startup on these things.
@eltigrerex (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=1580) @GopherRock (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=47)
Wake up and chime in here. It's been too long.
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amen, been to long for me
I started strong and then faded
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These screen captures show the placement of the ball at the beginning of each of the four OT possessions in last years game.
In each the ball is correctly placed at the far side of the 25 yard line. The closest (to the end zone) part of the ball is at the far (from the end zone) side of the 25 yard line.
Thus, the requirement to gain a first down is to get any part of the ball over any part of the 25 yard line.
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The teams are a combined 17-5, but ask fans of either and it's tough to think any are satisfied with the season they've had. Ohio State had national title aspirations, and it would now take a minor miracle to even have a shot. Michigan fans expected a rebuild season, but 9 wins still felt like a floor, hoping they could pull off an upset in one of their three showcase games. Two in, and neither was particularly close. But when Michigan was struggling in mediocrity in the mid-90s, they made their seasons by ruining Ohio State's. They've had plenty of chances to do that again over the past decade, but haven't been able to. First of all, Michigan needs a healthy Peters. We've seen enough John O'Korn to know there's nothing there. O'Korn has been given plenty of chances, and has proven he's not up to it. So let's work with the caveat that Peters is starting. Even with a healthy Peters, this is still an offense built around the running game. They had been showing progress once the staff finally showed that they figured out what the rest of us had, that Higdon needed to be the focal point, with Evans as a scary change of pace. Michigan's defense should be relatively up to the task against Ohio State's offense, but how relatively will that be. Even the most optimistic Michigan fan knows they can't get into a shootout with the Buckeyes. Nor do they think they can shut Ohio State down. They need to make splash plays. Sacks and turnovers. You get Barrett in obvious passing downs, you have a shot. Better yet, you turn him over. What Michigan can do, that nobody else Ohio State has faced could, is generate pressure with four. Ohio State makes you think you have to blitz them, and then kill you in one on one mismatches. Michigan can get there with four. Then it's on Don Brown to prove he's learned something from the Penn State game. If he's worth his salt, he has.
MICHIGAN 28, OHIO STATE 27
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So if I have this right now, I guess 2007 was Lincoln? 2006 was Austin and the first one in 2005 was Madison. 2008 Nashville, 2009 Columbia, 2010 back in Madison. 2011 Fayetteville, 2012 Atlanta and 2013 Knoxville. Then crickets.
There needs to be a new startup on these things.
@eltigrerex (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=1580) @GopherRock (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=47)
Wake up and chime in here. It's been too long.
A list of CFN board meetings:
2004: Atlanta, SEC Champ, kind of an unofficial one
05: Madison
06: Fearless' Sharkwater party in Lincoln
07: Austin, Texas (my first one)
08 Nashville
I'll be in Nashville next weekend. If we swing by that bar, I'll check if the banshee Bammer is still there.
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What Michigan can do, that nobody else Ohio State has faced could, is generate pressure with four. Ohio State makes you think you have to blitz them, and then kill you in one on one mismatches. Michigan can get there with four. Then it's on Don Brown to prove he's learned something from the Penn State game. If he's worth his salt, he has.
MICHIGAN 28, OHIO STATE 27
Bastage wouldn't surprise me though - if OKorn plays to his ceiling just one afternoon.Prolly what Jim is telling him.If I'm Schiano i'm turning the dogs loose don't over think it.Barret has had 3 big games and lost two of them this year.Brown has the blueprint should be a much tighter game than the pundits predict
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It's 9:20am. AND M*CH*G*N STILL SUCKS!
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12 outa 13?
soon to be 13 of the last 14
Go Bucks!
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Testify FF Testify
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J'OK starting. Ohio State by 30.
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J'OK starting. Ohio State by 30.
Lol. Just text the same thing to my brother. Going to be an ugly day.
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I think it goes down to the wire.
The Freak on a Leash is going to have the game of his life.
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J'OK starting. Ohio State by 30.
Yeah my caveat on picking UM was Peters playing. I mean if Tyler O'Conner can beat them in Columbus, it can happen, but I just don't see it anymore
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I think it goes down to the wire.
The Freak on a Leash is going to have the game of his life.
he already had the game of his life against Purdue. Or the half of his life I should say. I think he was fired up because he was facing the guy who benched him at Houston- Tony Levine- who was the head coach at Houston when O'Korn was there and is now the OC and TE's coach for Purdue. That's all O'Korn had in him. He shot his wad, fell way back down to earth.
In the last 20+ years of watching Michigan football, he's one of the worst QB's I've ever seen. He's right up there with Nick Sheridan (who was a walk-on), Shane Morris, and Steven Threet. Even TaterTot and Devin Gardner were light years better than the J'OKe of a QB.
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Threet would have been a hell of a lot better in the right system.
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People are underestimating that UM defense. And O' Korn scrambling. I see a war.
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sick to my stomach and just glad I never have to see J'Oke again.
Not sure we'll ever win this game any time soon. 2018 Michigan should be really good if Peters is the real deal like I think he is. Still has to go prove a hell of a lot more, but I like what I've seen since spring and carrying over into the games he played this year. Game is in C-Bus though. Haven't won there since 2000 with Drew Henson as the starting QB.
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it's really hard to nit-pick the defense but if there is one area of concern it's this: Don Brown is too stubborn. He plays way too much man to man and blitzes too much. Don't get me wrong I love the guy and his style of defense- but he pretty much never takes his foot off that gas pedal.
David Long and LaVert Hill are FANTASTIC young cornerbacks. Really are. He should have no qualms about playing those two in man coverage as much as he does. They can do it. But LB Mike McCray, S Josh Mettellus, and CB Brandon Watson are and have been liabilities in man coverage. Watson probably should be playing safety. He doesn't have the recovery speed to play corner. He gets beat he's f'ed. Long got caught peaking in the backfield- JT threw it to McLaurin and Long turned on the jets and that 10.4 100m track speed and caught up and push McLaurin and cause the INC as soon as the ball got there. Long isn't even 100% and he's still got that gear- his knee and groin are injured- when he's healthy he's just that much faster/quicker. Watson can't do that. He gets beat or caught peaking in the backfield- it's an automatic big play. Doesn't have the burst or quickness that guys like Hill and Long have. I'd love to see Ambry Thomas get a real shot playing CB since Brown insists on playing basically straight man to man 98% of the defensive snaps. Thomas has that kind of athletic ability to make up for bad technique or getting caught peaking. Watson just doesn't have it.
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RS JR DE Chase Winovich non-committall on if he'll return to Michigan.
Unless he gets a high draft grade- which I doubt he will- gotta think he'll be back.
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John O'Korn actually f'in said this in the post game presser:
“Honestly, just my personal opinion, I think we got a little complacent as players,” said O’Korn. “I think we let the foot off the gas. This game didn’t have to be close. We could’ve ran away with it. We had plenty of opportunities and we just didn’t take advantage.”
Seriously? What an oblivious ass-hat. Yeah, they could've won John if you didn't waste all of those opportunities and SUCK ASS like you always do. I can't believe he said that. Oh yeah, wait I can....he's a moron.
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how large was the Michigan lead when O'Korn let his foot off the gas???
you decide to coast in "the game"????
Dude
and then if you really felt that way, it's amazing that you would be foolish enough to say it out loud
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how large was the Michigan lead when O'Korn let his foot off the gas???
you decide to coast in "the game"????
Dude
and then if you really felt that way, it's amazing that you would be foolish enough to say it out loud
he's a moron and he sucks at football.
Came across as him kind of calling out the other players which is absurd- and not giving any credit to Ohio State for turning up the switch and responding.
Those Michigan players played their asses off. Every single one of them except....John O'Korn. O'Korn was the single biggest reason they lost that game. Literally the single biggest reason they lost. He missed wide open receiver after wide open receiver the entire game, he ran himself into sacks and pressure like a moron because he has zero pocket presence, and he threw the game ending interception on the first play of the final drive with 2 mins and 48 seconds left in the game.
I think I actually hate the guy.
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So when JT gets hurt it comes out later that "he's been dealing with a meniscus issue"
1) if that's true (which I don't know if it is), isn't this borderline criminal of Urban to continue to pound a guy with a bad knee?
2) second, if that's true, why the eff do you not utilize your effing running backs! Yet another big game where Urban pounds his qb vs using his best players! First half, Mike Weber 1 carry. Dobbins 6 I think.
JT 15 carries before he's hurt. Wtf is urban doing?
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So when JT gets hurt it comes out later that "he's been dealing with a meniscus issue"
1) if that's true (which I don't know if it is), isn't this borderline criminal of Urban to continue to pound a guy with a bad knee?
2) second, if that's true, why the eff do you not utilize your effing running backs! Yet another big game where Urban pounds his qb vs using his best players! First half, Mike Weber 1 carry. Dobbins 6 I think.
JT 15 carries before he's hurt. Wtf is urban doing?
he forget he had Zeke Elliot for long stretches of games. The best RB on planet earth. And Urban would just forget about him.
Weber and Dobbins are great backs. It was baffling to me he wasn't feeding them. Baffling but at the same time I loved it.
Maybe Urb just trusts JT more than he trusts a frosh RB and 2nd year RB?
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I don't think Meyer/Trainer/Barrett knew how bad the knee injury was before the kick off. I heard someone (maybe Barrett) say his knee pops all the time, they just have to set it back. I think everyone was operating under that "simple" premise and not that there was a tear.
Then Barrett fights through it until it pops again, and they take a look and say uh-oh somethings night right here. And now Meyer is pissed.
But that's just me reading into into it.
Can you play a week later on a meniscus tear?
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OSU also swept Michigan on the Ice this weekend, in Ann Arbor.
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I thought Michigan played with a lot of heart, for the most part, I thought they were the better team on both lines of scrimmage. although I think the baffling play calling in the first half contributed to that as well.
Talking with my buddies, I honestly wonder if the outcome would have been different if UM just ran 50 straight plays, completely abandon the pass game. they were having success, which doesn't bode well for OSU next weekend as I think Wiscy has a much better offensive line.
really surprised at both teams success on 3rd down, both teams had a lot of trouble getting off the field.
also really surprised at the lack of imagination with the playcalling on both sides. neither team really showed much, if any new wrinkles. tressel was great at this, always had a couple new plays up his sleeve for THE GAME. just a lot lot of the same for OSU, QB draw after QB draw, sideline passes that loosen nothing up. For UM, a lot of runs up the middle, and 9 step drops that were ineffective.
and can someone get urban some alka selzer ,dude has heartburn all game long, or lay off the papa johns!
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So if I have this right now, I guess 2007 was Lincoln? 2006 was Austin and the first one in 2005 was Madison. 2008 Nashville, 2009 Columbia, 2010 back in Madison. 2011 Fayetteville, 2012 Atlanta and 2013 Knoxville. Then crickets.
There needs to be a new startup on these things.
@eltigrerex (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=1580) @GopherRock (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=47)
Wake up and chime in here. It's been too long.
There was another one in 2004 in ATL at the ESPN Zone, although it was a bit impromptu; it featured me, LilDawg, TrojanMark, aufiredog, Volhalla, Volkyrie, & Otto was supposed to be there, but I think he missed it. Otherwise, I believe that's correct.
And I'd love to do one again but with my current situation at home, not sure I could travel far...
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I thought Michigan played with a lot of heart, for the most part, I thought they were the better team on both lines of scrimmage. although I think the baffling play calling in the first half contributed to that as well.
Talking with my buddies, I honestly wonder if the outcome would have been different if UM just ran 50 straight plays, completely abandon the pass game. they were having success, which doesn't bode well for OSU next weekend as I think Wiscy has a much better offensive line.
really surprised at both teams success on 3rd down, both teams had a lot of trouble getting off the field.
also really surprised at the lack of imagination with the playcalling on both sides. neither team really showed much, if any new wrinkles. tressel was great at this, always had a couple new plays up his sleeve for THE GAME. just a lot lot of the same for OSU, QB draw after QB draw, sideline passes that loosen nothing up. For UM, a lot of runs up the middle, and 9 step drops that were ineffective.
and can someone get urban some alka selzer ,dude has heartburn all game long, or lay off the papa johns!
Wow. So weird how differently we saw that game.
MIchigan's yards per carry was like 2.7 YPC. They got put in 3rd and long almost every possession, which is why they couldn't keep running. It was not working at all.
Also, while one worst of the season at about 4.5 per carry, OSU running game was quite effective, especially after they figured out that UM Was breaking there defensive tendencies in a big way, playing Tampa 2 instead of man to man. In fact, many plays that UM blew up in the first Q worked extremely well when OSU ran them later with a few tweaks. They were very innovative, especially some of the motions, like the one with Paris Cambpell they hadn't done all year ( where does a full half moon behind the QB), which caused UM to shift from their " over" set, to the boundary side- thus freeing up one one blocking on the wide side. BUckeyes got many great runs by both Dobbins and Barrett from that.
The thing nobody talks about is that OSU took over in Q2, and Michigan could not stop them. After two straight easy scoring possessions they were well on their way to a third until they self inflicted with a high snap over Barrett's head.
Also, the one drive UM did stop while Haskins was in, on 3rd and 1, was a horribly obvious misread on the zone read. MIchigan completely sold out on Weber- both defensive ends crashing straight down on the snap. Had Haskins made the easy, proper read, he could have literally walked around the end for 5-7 yards.
Here is some great film :
https://www.elevenwarriors.com/ohio-state-football/film-study/2017/11/88565/film-study-how-ohio-state-made-came-back-to-handle-a-very-good-michigan-defense
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Wow. So weird how differently we saw that game.
MIchigan's yards per carry was like 2.7 YPC. They got put in 3rd and long almost every possession, which is why they couldn't keep running. It was not working at all.
Also, while one worst of the season at about 4.5 per carry, OSU running game was quite effective, especially after they figured out that UM Was breaking there defensive tendencies in a big way, playing Tampa 2 instead of man to man. In fact, many plays that UM blew up in the first Q worked extremely well when OSU ran them later with a few tweaks. They were very innovative, especially some of the motions, like the one with Paris Cambpell they hadn't done all year ( where does a full half moon behind the QB), which caused UM to shift from their " over" set, to the boundary side- thus freeing up one one blocking on the wide side. BUckeyes got many great runs by both Dobbins and Barrett from that.
The thing nobody talks about is that OSU took over in Q2, and Michigan could not stop them. After two straight easy scoring possessions they were well on their way to a third until they self inflicted with a high snap over Barrett's head.
Also, the one drive UM did stop while Haskins was in, on 3rd and 1, was a horribly obvious misread on the zone read. MIchigan completely sold out on Weber- both defensive ends crashing straight down on the snap. Had Haskins made the easy, proper read, he could have literally walked around the end for 5-7 yards.
Here is some great film :
https://www.elevenwarriors.com/ohio-state-football/film-study/2017/11/88565/film-study-how-ohio-state-made-came-back-to-handle-a-very-good-michigan-defense
Michigan was running the ball pretty effectively with Evans and Higdon. Higdon and Evans both only had around 10 carries each- combined they ran for probably close to 120 yards.
Rush YPC stats were skewed by a lot of 3rd and short yardage runs with Hill/Mason- which they both converted by the way- and of course O'Korn running himself into a couple extra sacks. Don't think I've ever seen an offense call a QB roll out and then have the QB run himself in the opposite direction of the roll out and into a sack. Entire purpose for the QB bootleg is to roll right away from the pressure- if it's not there either run up the field or throw it away. Moron actually ran left and into the pursuit. Never seen that in my life. O'Korn had to have close to -40 yards rushing. Always thought those should go against the pass stats and not the rush stats.
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Michigan was running the ball pretty effectively with Evans and Higdon. Higdon and Evans both only had around 10 carries each- combined they ran for probably close to 120 yards.
Rush YPC stats were skewed by a lot of 3rd and short yardage runs with Hill/Mason- which they both converted by the way- and of course O'Korn running himself into a couple extra sacks. Don't think I've ever seen an offense call a QB roll out and then have the QB run himself in the opposite direction of the roll out and into a sack. Entire purpose for the QB bootleg is to roll right away from the pressure- if it's not there either run up the field or throw it away. Moron actually ran left and into the pursuit. Never seen that in my life. O'Korn had to have close to -40 yards rushing. Always thought those should go against the pass stats and not the rush stats.
This. O'Korn had 8 carries for -35 yards (-4.4 ypc); the fullbacks had 6 carries for 13 yards (2.2 ypc); the tailbacks had 22 carries for 122 yards (5.5 ypc), but two long carries (22 and 24 yards) accounted for over 1/3 of their total yards, with only 3.8 ypc on their other 20 carries.
So to say OSU shut them down is misleading, but the total Evans/Higdon ypc is also a touch misleading too. But wither way, they were running effectively enough, in what was a one score game until the final possession, that I agree they should have had more carries. It's not like OSU was selling out against the run.
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This. O'Korn had 8 carries for -35 yards (-4.4 ypc); the fullbacks had 6 carries for 13 yards (2.2 ypc); the tailbacks had 22 carries for 122 yards (5.5 ypc), but two long carries (22 and 24 yards) accounted for over 1/3 of their total yards, with only 3.8 ypc on their other 20 carries.
So to say OSU shut them down is misleading, but the total Evans/Higdon ypc is also a touch misleading too. But wither way, they were running effectively enough, in what was a one score game until the final possession, that I agree they should have had more carries. It's not like OSU was selling out against the run.
Stats go both ways. BArrett ended up with 67 yards, net of all those sacks which were at least 25 yards.
Stats are also calculated the same way each week. Michigan ended up with 100 net yards, OSU 226. One team did a much better job of stuffing the run. It is what it is.
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My only point was UM needed to feed their tailbacks more, they were effective.
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Here's a solid statistical look at it.
Michigan's run gam was pretty efficient, deeply unexplosive. Michigan, got ahead of the chains on 45 percent of their carries. The average nationally is 41, and for OSU is far lower. But after that, they didn't get much. OSU was a hair less efficient, a god bit more explosive.
Evans was more efficient than Higdon, but less explosive.
Barrett was also absurdly efficient, but that's just kind of his thing.
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I enjoyed the back and forth between two very good coordinators in Kevin Wilson and Don Brown. I was a little put off by OSU's defense again - not particularly great against the run, and too many uncovered guys in the passing game. I'm not sure why they can't get that fixed. I think they are trying to get too complicated on defense and it is leaving guys confused.
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Here's a solid statistical look at it.
Michigan's run gam was pretty efficient, deeply unexplosive. Michigan, got ahead of the chains on 45 percent of their carries. The average nationally is 41, and for OSU is far lower. But after that, they didn't get much. OSU was a hair less efficient, a god bit more explosive.
Evans was more efficient than Higdon, but less explosive.
Barrett was also absurdly efficient, but that's just kind of his thing.
good way to look at it. But the interesting thing is that from a defensive standpoint, Ohio State is set up to eliminate explosive plays, not shut the run down completely. Its based on balance, where UMs is based on attacking. Two completely different philosophies. They both played out in that game.
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I enjoyed the back and forth between two very good coordinators in Kevin Wilson and Don Brown. I was a little put off by OSU's defense again - not particularly great against the run, and too many uncovered guys in the passing game. I'm not sure why they can't get that fixed. I think they are trying to get too complicated on defense and it is leaving guys confused.
I was incredibly happy with their run defense- which was exceptional- eliminating explosive plays and limiting them to 100 yards, net. Good luck dong that against Wisconsin though.
The coaches clearly DID simplify the defense after Iowa. As is the OSU M.O this season, they did a great job of covering WRs, but not so much the tight ends and backs out of the backfield. The Michigan WRs got almost nothing in this game, and when they did they were well covered (like McDoom's catch late. Great throw, excellent coverage by Arnette)
So now we have Fumigali. Shit.
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I thought they were average against the run. The linebackers, especially Baker, have had repeated problems filling gaps and picking up coverages. They have at times looked exceptional, so I can't say they will get bent by Wisconsin, but I'm not confident. I just see Fumagali running wide open repeatedly and the QB will always be looking at him.
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and can someone get urban some alka selzer ,dude has heartburn all game long, or lay off the papa johns!
+1
I didn't like Meyer when he was that arrogant SOB at Florida. Then he got super stressed out and had to take a break.
Came to OSU and was more of this happy go lucky firey coach, that was always smiling. Started noticing the stress last year and a lot more this year; he does not seem to be having fun. Are we getting that micromanaging, stressed out coach that left Florida? If so not sure that's good for OSU, and it's definitely not good for him? I've heard Florida fans joke about how many losses he is away from having another health issue.
If I could say one thing to Urban it would be "Coach, it's a game, a game you love. Get back to having fun while and enjoying this game you love."
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I was incredibly happy with their run defense- which was exceptional- eliminating explosive plays and limiting them to 100 yards, net. Good luck dong that against Wisconsin though.
The coaches clearly DID simplify the defense after Iowa. As is the OSU M.O this season, they did a great job of covering WRs, but not so much the tight ends and backs out of the backfield. The Michigan WRs got almost nothing in this game, and when they did they were well covered (like McDoom's catch late. Great throw, excellent coverage by Arnette)
So now we have Fumigali. Shit.
Schiano style of defense is bend, don't break. Don't think he's ever been known as a guy who blitzes a lot and creates havoc. His defenses have emphasized getting pressure with 4 and creating turnovers. Brown's on the other hand is ATTACK ATTACK ATTACK. Both styles have their plus and minuses. At the end of the day it all comes down to personnel and how you use that personnel. I thought Schiano did a better job of that than Brown.
Brown's defenses can live in the backfield and create negative plays but they are also prone to give up the explosive play. When you leave your safeties and LB's in man coverage that often- bad things can happen. I love his style of defense if you have a Malik Hooker or Minkah Fitzpatrick at safety- safeties that can really cover. Mettellus and Kinnel kinda struggle in man though.
Brown doesn't have a Peppers or Delano Hill this year- a 1st and 3rd round NFL draft pick- yet he's still calling defenses like he does. No offense to Mettelus and Kinnel- but they probably aren't ever going to be drafted and if they are it will be very late. And to me it is completely inexcusable to ever put Mike McCray in man coverage on anybody. He's an excellent run defender and blitzer because of his size and instincts but he is not fluid or quick twitch- he's 6'4, 240- not a guy you want in space. Plus- when you play that much man to man- QB's that can run are going to have A TON of space to run on scrambles. JT and Haskins burned them on scrambles.
I thought Brown did a great job mixing his looks up early playing more zone but after awhile he went back to what he likes and that was a lot of straight man and blitzes- and that's when Ohio State really started to gash his defense. Brown to me is too much of a..."this is the defense I play, we're playing it, regardless of personnel". IF he had a Jaylon Smith at OLB instead of Mike McCray and a Malik Hooker instead of Mettelus- yeah fine- that'd be one thing. Play that style. But he doesn't. That's my only knock on his style. Because he plays SO much man- requires players with high level of ability in man coverage at OLB and S and CB- and CB's that can really play man well are rare- but Safeties and OLB's that can really play man to man- those are downright impossible to find. Unicorns. There are maybe only a handful out there in the entire country every recruiting class.
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great post MDOT. true as true can be..
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great post MDOT. true as true can be..
thanks!
yeah, if you'll notice the thing on Brown is the stats do get a little bit skewed because he can just flat out overwhelm the teams that are less talented. When he plays the teams with equal or better talent and he doesn't adjust- that's when his defenses give up more big plays. That's ALWAYS going to happen though. When you play better teams you are going to give up more yards/big plays/points.
Of course having a shit-tastic QB to "compliment" the defense is going to make Brown's job that much harder. Offense/defense work hand in hand. If Harbaugh can get his shit together and bring a respectable compliment to Brown's defense- that will help out the defense a lot.
This is all nitpicky- because Michigan is extremely lucky to have Brown and he is one of the VERY top DC's in CFB. OSU is lucky to have Schiano as well, because he is one of the VERY top top DC's in CFB. Feel bad for him because how the UT fan base trashed his character- but it worked out for OSU. They get to keep one of the top DC's in CFB.
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But the interesting thing is that from a defensive standpoint, Ohio State is set up to eliminate explosive plays
that may be, but they really did a poor job of this the majority of the season. This defense was gashed repeatedly, by QB runs, TE shots, at times RBs. I do agree, after the IU game and some other early games, the DB's improved, which is more than I can say about the LBs.
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https://www.elevenwarriors.com/ohio-state-football/film-study/2017/11/88565/film-study-how-ohio-state-made-came-back-to-handle-a-very-good-michigan-defense
Good read on the topic. The only thing that I do not understand is why they continued to run to the right on every first down play in the second half, and I believe it was literally almost every first down play in the second half. If there was something there, I sure was not seeing it, only the M defense stuffing the run and us wasting a down. Makes sense why JT seemed to be holding the ball forever, not that he has not done that his entire career, and also shows a big weakness in his game that a lot of defensive coordinators have exploited and made him go from Heisman Type Hero to Zero. Be very interested to see how Wisconsin plays it.
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https://www.elevenwarriors.com/ohio-state-football/film-study/2017/11/88565/film-study-how-ohio-state-made-came-back-to-handle-a-very-good-michigan-defense
Good read on the topic. The only thing that I do not understand is why they continued to run to the right on every first down play in the second half, and I believe it was literally almost every first down play in the second half. If there was something there, I sure was not seeing it, only the M defense stuffing the run and us wasting a down. Makes sense why JT seemed to be holding the ball forever, not that he has not done that his entire career, and also shows a big weakness in his game that a lot of defensive coordinators have exploited and made him go from Heisman Type Hero to Zero. Be very interested to see how Wisconsin plays it.
Leonhard is a hell of a DC. He'll come up with a great scheme. Against Michigan saw him mix a lot of stuff up, showed blitz then dropped into zones. Really creative NFL type shite.