CFB51 College Football Fan Community
The Power Five => Big Ten => Topic started by: ftbobs on June 03, 2020, 10:18:17 AM
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Since I accidentally created this:
(https://i.imgur.com/fYqCdoE.png)
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Who would have guessed ND would average 6.9 wins per season? It makes sense if you think about it historically of course.
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Is this for all-time? Seems like it.
Good to have you back around the neighborhood!!
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is this since the 1800's?
many seasons then didn't include 6 games
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Yes, it's all-time. I was working on something else and accidentally hit average. Thought it might be interesting.
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Thanks. Please continue your work. It's been sorely missed around here.
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yes. many of ftbobs' creations show why Nebraska is still a "helmet"
top 12 here is impressive
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It is interesting. It is obviously biased in favor of schools that haven't been playing very long due to the increased number of games lately. For Ohio State:
- Averaged 13 the last two years (both 13-1)
- Averaged at least 12 since 2012 (Urban took over that year)
- Averaged at least 11 since 2001 (Tressel took over that year)
- Averaged at least 10 since 1988 (Cooper took over that year)
- Averaged at least nine since 1957 (Woody's second NC)
- Averaged at least 8.8 since 1951 (Woody took over that year)
- Averaged at least eight since 1928
An illustration of how much this has changed:
In three seasons from 1968-1970 Ohio State won an NC and missed twice by losing their last game. Over those three seasons they averaged nine wins:
- 1968: 10-0 Big Ten, Rose Bowl, and National Champions
- 1969: 8-1 Lost to Michigan in what was guaranteed to be the Buckeyes' last game due to the conference's "no repeat" rule wrt the Rose Bowl
- 1970: 9-1 Lost to Stanford in the Rose Bowl.
- Total 27-2
- Average 9-0.67
That is an extremely good three-year stretch but it "only" averaged nine wins because the team could only play nine or ten per year.
By way of comparison the last three years (2017-2019) have been good, but not quite THAT good for the Buckeyes but they have averaged a LOT more wins:
- 2017: 12-2 B1G and Cotton Bowl Champions, missed CFP. The two losses were to Oklahoma OOC and Iowa in the B1G. The Buckeyes got an "extra" win over UW in the B1GCG.
- 2018: 13-1 B1G and Rose Bowl Champions, missed CFP. The loss was to Purdue in the B1G. The Buckeyes got an "extra" win over NU in the B1GCG.
- 2019: 13-1 B1G Champions. The loss was in the CFP Semi-Final.
- Total 38-4
- Average 12.67-1.33
Comparing to 1968-1970:
- The 2017-2019 Buckeyes averaged 0.67 MORE losses per year than the 1968-1970 Buckeyes
- The 2017-2019 Buckeyes averaged 3.67 MORE wins per year than the 1968-1970 Buckeyes due to a longer regular season (12 vs 9) and the possibility of a CG and bowl EVERY year.
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Thanks. Please continue your work. It's been sorely missed around here.
agreed
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. . . An illustration of how much this has changed:
In three seasons from 1968-1970 Ohio State won an NC and missed twice by losing their last game. Over those three seasons they averaged nine wins:
- 1968: 10-0 Big Ten, Rose Bowl, and National Champions
- 1969: 8-1 Lost to Michigan in what was guaranteed to be the Buckeyes' last game due to the conference's "no repeat" rule wrt the Rose Bowl
- 1970: 9-1 Lost to Stanford in the Rose Bowl.
- Total 27-2
- Average 9-0.67
That is an extremely good three-year stretch but it "only" averaged nine wins because the team could only play nine or ten per year. . . .
That's just when I was starting to pay attention to college football. I didn't remember tOSU's 3-year stretch had been quite that good. That's a hell of a run to only emerge with one national championship.
Even better than, and also reminiscent of, OU's stretch from '85 through '87. 33-3, with all three losses to Miami, including a #1 vs. #2 matchup in the '87 (season) Orange Bowl. One natty--1985 with a win over Penn State in the Orange Bowl.
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Husker's stretch while I was in school
1982-84
34-4 - no titles
one loss to Joe Pa on his home field and his own refs
one missed 2-point conversion - loss to the Canes on home field
one huge upset by syracuse in 84 and a loss to the Sooners
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Oh, yeah?
Sooners' stretch when I was there in the first four of my five wasted years, plus my wasted senior year in HS:
54-3-1. A loss to Nebraska in '71. A loss to Colorado in '72. A tie with USC in '73. A loss to Kansas (Kansas!) in '75.
A natty and a half. We'll say two.
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i got you...
bama while i was in school:
record: 33-30 (.524)
sec-w titles: 0
sec titles: 0
national titles: 0
bowl record: 2-2
iron bowl record: 0-5
3rd sat in oct wins: 2-3
embarrassing losses: 3 (hawaii, northern illinois, la monroe)
# of coaches: 4 (price (0 games coached), shula, kines (1 game), saban (but his first year in which he went 7-6))
# of scandals: 3 (counting the means scandal as it was still ongoing, the price "it's rollin' baby" scandal, and textbook-gate) could possibly include the rich rod almost hiring saga, and saban's "i'm not gonna coach at bama" saga, though both of those worked out in bama's favor.
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Ouch! What's the worst of all that?
I'm guessing this one: Iron Bowl record: 0-5.
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easily
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Which P5 teams average the fewest wins per season? How do they stack up against demoted (former) P5 teams like Temple, Rice and Tulane?
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Since we are doing this:
Ohio State's record while I was there (1993-1997, I got an extra major by staying an extra fall and got an extra football season out of the deal as well): 51-11-1
- 1993: 10-1-1: Started 8-0. The highlight was handing PSU their second ever and second consecutive Big11Ten loss (the Nittany Lions lost to Michigan two weeks prior then had a week off get ready for tOSU). The tOSU/PSU game was #3 vs #12. PSU was #7 before their Michigan loss, dropped to #14 after losing then climbed to #12 on their idle week. A week after beating Penn State the Buckeyes traveled to Madison. Ohio State was riding high at #3 while Wisconsin was 7-1 but only ranked #15 because their loss was to a horrible Minnesota team. The Buckeyes and Badgers tied and Ohio State dropped to #5 in the poll. I remember being incredibly ticked that they got jumped by Nebraska who had barely survived a HORRIBLE Kansas team (21-20, I think it was controversial too but I don't remember). The Buckeyes were #5 and still plausibly in the NC race at 9-0-1 when they headed to Ann Arbor on November 20. Cooper, Michigan, that is really all you need to know about that. The Buckeyes and Badgers tied at 6-1-1 in conference and the Badgers got the RB bid on the basis of the old "longest loser rule". At that point Ohio State hadn't been to the Rose Bowl since the 1984 season but the Badgers had never been in a RB televised in color. For an 18 year old guy Ohio State's (then) nine year absence from the Rose Bowl seemed like an eternity and I just hated that my team lost on a stupid tiebreaker to a team that my team should have beaten anyway, oh well. At the time the conference's #2 bowl was the Holiday so 9-1-1 and #11 Ohio State got matched up with unranked and 6-5 BYU.
- 1994: 9-4: A bit of a rebuilding year. The Buckeyes started out #20 and lost early in Seattle to the Huskies. They stayed barely ranked then climbed to #17 before losing at home to Illinois and dropping out completely. At the end of October the Buckeyes were back up to #21 and they still controlled their own destiny in the league (because Illinois had two losses). So the Buckeyes headed to State College and got absolutely drilled by the Nittany Lions, 63-14. That dropped the Buckeyes back out of the poll. Despite this being a rebuilding year, one of the highlights of my time in Columbus was the November 19, 1994 game in Columbus between the #22 Buckeyes and the visiting #15 Wolverines. Ohio State won 22-6. Note that Cooper was able to beat Michigan so long as nothing was riding on the game. PSU had already long-since clinched the Big11Ten title and RB berth so the Buckeyes and Wolverines were playing for second. The win pushed the Buckeyes up to #13 and they were 9-3 and #13 heading into the Citrus Bowl against 11-1 and #6 Bama. That matchup seemed completely unfair to me. The Tide had been 11-0 and a serious NC contender before losing in Atlanta to the Gators by a single point and they were too much for the 9-3 Buckeyes but I was proud that my team played a solid game against the Tide, losing by a TD, 24-17.
- 1995: 11-2: The Buckeyes started out #12 and climbed all the way to 11-0 and #2 but Cooper was Cooper so they lost their last two (Michigan and Bowl) to finish 11-2 and #6. I'm pretty sure Tim Biakabutuka just scored again.
- 1996: 11-1: The Buckeyes returned a lot and started #9 then climbed all the way to 10-0 and #2 before hosing 7-3 and #21 Michigan. Cooper was Cooper so after that loss they dropped to #6 but then climbed to #5 when #5 Colorado lost to #4 Nebraska and further to #4 when #3 Nebraska lost the B12CG. My parents, little brother, and I drove to Pasadena for the Rose Bowl between 11-0 and #2 ASU and 10-1 and #4 Ohio State. The Buckeyes won and on the way home we listed on the radio to the rematch between 11-0 and #1 FSU and 11-1 and #3 UF. We were rooting for a sloppy and REALLY close UF win but the Gators left no doubts, won 52-20 and claimed the NC leaving the Buckeyes #2 and lamenting yet another loss to Michigan.
- 1997: 10-3: The Buckeyes started out #9 and climbed to #7 before losing to pre-season (and still at the time) #1 Penn State. After that the Buckeyes climbed all the way to #4 before traveling to Ann Arbor to take on #1 Michigan. Cooper being Cooper the result of that game is easy to guess and after the loss the Buckeyes dropped to #9 then lost again to #4 FSU in the Sugar Bowl and finished 10-3 and #12.
Highlights:
- One of John Cooper's two wins over Michigan as coach at Ohio State that I saw in person.
- The Rose Bowl win over ASU that I saw in person.
- Beating PSU in the first matchup of the two teams as conference-mates and going 3-2 against them.
- Being THISCLOSE to the NC in 1993, 1995, and 1996.
Lowlights:
- 1-4 against Michigan
- 2-3 in bowls
- Being THISCLOSE to the NC in 1993, 1995, and 1996 and not being able to get over that hump
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Which P5 teams average the fewest wins per season? How do they stack up against demoted (former) P5 teams like Temple, Rice and Tulane?
looks like indiana and nw, per the list in op.
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I was at UGA 1972-1974. I went summers and got out in three. I mostly enjoyed my time there. This period included streaking as a thing and UGA excelled at running around nekkid.
1972 - 7-4, with losses to Tulane, Bama, Tenn, and Auburn. Did beat Florida and Tech. Meh.
1973 - 7-4-1, tied Pitt, lost to Bama, Vandy and Kentucky, Florida, the last three losses by 4, 5, and 1. Upset Tennessee. Beat Maryland in the Peach Bowl.
1974 - 6-6, lost to Houston and Miami of Ohio (Tangerine Bowl), not a good year. Did upset No. 6 Florida.
So, they were glad to see me leave town. In 1975, they were 9-3 and made the Cotton Bowl (a loss). In 1976, they won the conference. They beat Alabama 21-0 and then went on the road to lose to a poor Ole Miss team. Pitt smoked them in the Sugar Bowl.
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I was at Florida during the Zook years, so that stunk. But I had first row, corner of the end zone season tickets. I was on the jumbo-tron a lot and high-fived the players all the time. That's where Orange Afro Man comes from - the jumbo-tron gave me my own graphic/name.
But Florida only went 8-5, 8-5, and 7-5 those years.
2002 highlight was being Georgia's only loss as an unranked team in the WLOCP. I'm not sure Florida had been unranked in my entire memory before midseason of '02, actually. Anyway, we cost the Dawgs a shot at the NC, so that works.
2003 - played spoiler again, giving LSU its only loss of the season, but they actually went on to win the NC anyway. Also beat a top-5 Georgia team again, lol. CB Keiwan Ratliff had a big season, with 9 INT and 4 defensive TDs. And true FR QB Chris Leak started his career with promise.
2004 - Leak blossomed, RB Fason had a big season, but the year sucked. We lost to anyone who mattered, until a magical night in Tallahassee. On the night they christened it Bobby Bowden field, something strange happened - on the night of my best friend's wedding, we beat the Noles. They got married at Sawgrass (her parents are rich), and I'm walking down the hall to the bar over and over to catch some of the game during the reception.
It was cool to have those seats, cool to get my own name/graphic, but not a great time frame.
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That's just when I was starting to pay attention to college football. I didn't remember tOSU's 3-year stretch had been quite that good. That's a hell of a run to only emerge with one national championship.
I've seen Woody's 1967 recruiting class referred to as the best ever and they probably have a pretty strong case for it. Remember that Freshman couldn't play back then so in the three years that they played they went 27-2 and were two games from three straight NC's.
As Sophomores in 1968 they started #11. In their third game on October 12 they defeated preseason (and still at the time) #1 Purdue 13-0. They didn't take over #1 until after smothering the Wolverines 50-14 then played a (then) rare #1 vs #2 game against 9-0-1 USC in the Rose Bowl and won the NC.
In 1969 they started #1 and stayed there until losing to Bo's first Michigan team in Ann Arbor.
In 1970 they started #1 again but dropped to #2 in the October 26 poll (defending NC Texas had defeated Rice 45-21 the previous week while Ohio State defeated Illinois 48-29). They dropped to #3 the next week (also behind ND) and dropped all the way to #5 in the November 16 poll behind TX, ND, UNL, and M. Then they defeated #4 Michigan in a match-up of unbeaten and untied teams and regained #2. Heading into the Bowls Ohio State was #2 but as it turned out they did control their own destiny because #1 Texas lost 24-11 to #6 ND in the Cotton Bowl. That was an interesting ending to the season that allowed Nebraska to pick up their first NC:
- #1 Texas lost 24-11 to #6 Notre Dame. That knocked the Longhorns out.
- #2 Ohio State lost 27-17 to #12 Stanford. That knocked the Buckeyes out.
- #3 Nebraska beat #5 LSU* 17-12 in the Orange Bowl.
- #4 Tennessee* beat #11 Air Force 34-13 in the Sugar Bowl.
- #5 LSU lost 17-12 to #3 Nebraska in the Orange Bowl.
- #6 ND beat #1 Texas 24-11 in the Cotton Bowl.
- #7 Michigan did not play due to the Big Ten's RoseBowl only policy.
Nebraska's tie was 21-21 in LA with USC early in the season. That doesn't sound bad except that the Trojans were a mere 6-4-1 that year with losses to Stanford, Oregon, Cal, and UCLA.
*I don't know what happened in the SEC that year. It appears to me that LSU was the Champion because they went 9-3 but the three losses were to aTm (not an SEC member back then), ND (not an SEC member) and the bowl loss to Nebraska. Tennessee had a better overall record at 11-1 but the one loss was a conference loss to Auburn. I didn't realize there had been a time when the SEC Champion went to the Orange Bowl.
Nebraska went into the bowls needing a whole lot of help and they got it. Notre Dame's and Stanford's bowl wins were as integral to Nebraska's NC as any of their own wins.
After winning the NC in 1968 Woody's Buckeyes were extremely close four more times:
- 1969 lost final game as #1 to Michigan.
- 1970 lost RB to Stanford as #2 but #1 TX lost so a win would have meant an NC.
- 1973 tied Michigan and finished 10-0-1 and #2.
- 1975 lost RB to UCLA as #1. The annoying part is that the Buckeyes had already defeated UCLA in the Rose Bowl (stadium not game) earlier that season. The Buckeyes won the first game 41-20 and lost the second 23-10, ugh.
From 1968-1975 the Buckeyes won one NC and they were a single game each away from four or possibly five more. They went:
- 10-0 NC
- 8-1 (M loss cost a NC)
- 9-1 (RB loss cost a NC)
- 6-4 (rebuilding year)
- 9-2 (RB loss may have cost them an NC. They were #3 heading into the bowls and played #1 USC. #2 OU already had a loss so a win over #1 may have been enough to leapfrog your Sooners).
- 10-0-1 (M tie cost a NC)
- 10-2 (lost to MSU and USC, RB loss didn't cost an NC because #1 OU was undefeated).
- 11-1 (RB loss cost an NC)
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Back "in the day", SEC champions went to any which bowl they could snag. The Sugar Bowl linkage started in 1976. And the SEC often had co-champions back in the day due to playing only 6 conference games.
AS recently as 1989, they had three cochampions, Auburn, Alabama, and Tenn.
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looks like indiana and nw, per the list in op.
Aw yes, and Wake Forest.
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Another example of the SEC champ going to the Orange Bowl. In 1971, the next year, Nebraska was the Big 8 champ and OU the runner-up. Alabama was the SEC champ and Auburn was the runner-up. In both cases, the runners-up had lost only to the champions.
Nebraska beat Alabama in the Orange Bowl de facto NCG, while OU beat Auburn in the Sugar Bowl.
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That's just when I was starting to pay attention to college football. I didn't remember tOSU's 3-year stretch had been quite that good. That's a hell of a run to only emerge with one national championship.
Even better than, and also reminiscent of, OU's stretch from '85 through '87. 33-3, with all three losses to Miami, including a #1 vs. #2 matchup in the '87 (season) Orange Bowl. One natty--1985 with a win over Penn State in the Orange Bowl.
That stretch was when I was really starting to get into college football and can still remember it. I sort of adopted OU as my favorite team outside of WVU.
I hated Penn St and remember watching that Orange Bowl cheering hard for Oklahoma until my mom made me go to bed. But I stayed up late enough to see Holieway hit Keith Jackson on the long TD pass. I was happy as hell when my dad snuck in my room and told me OU beat them .
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Back "in the day", SEC champions went to any which bowl they could snag. The Sugar Bowl linkage started in 1976. And the SEC often had co-champions back in the day due to playing only 6 conference games.
AS recently as 1989, they had three cochampions, Auburn, Alabama, and Tenn.
So everyone got a trophy?
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So everyone got a trophy?
No, that's the southwest in 1994.
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When I was in school, I think P5 teams didn't schedule many pastries because of attendance. TV revenue was not major, you needed gate. It was rare to be on TV aside from ND et al.
If you schedule Directional U for a beat down, hardly anyone showed up. I recall going to a few games and you could sit anywhere in the upper deck, there was plenty of room. In 1972, the Dawgs hosted:
Baylor 53 K attendance
NCSU 58 K
Alabama 60 K (capacity)
Vandy 58 K
Tennessee 60 K
Tech 60 K
No pastries at all, 11 game slate. So, going to 12 games meant a pastry and by then attendance allowed them to add 1 or 2 more each year. Tail gating evolved from literal tail gating to save a buck to an "event". Folks would have their tent set up by some outside firm and stocked when they showed up with food and booze and would have tickets but might not go to the game if it was a pastry.
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As an aside:
I've never heard or seen anyone call them "pastries."
Patsies, sure.
Creme-puffs.
Directional U, yes.
High school teams.
But not pastries. It's interesting. Did you get that from somewhere?
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I like the term.
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I like the term.
I think it's your term. You need to register/trademark/copyright it.
Before it gets into the public domain, like "keenex" and "xerox."
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They have tasty pastries in France I must say. And the children are all above average.
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I was at UGA 1972-1974. I went summers and got out in three. I mostly enjoyed my time there. This period included streaking as a thing and UGA excelled at running around nekkid.
1972 - 7-4, with losses to Tulane, Bama, Tenn, and Auburn. Did beat Florida and Tech. Meh.
1973 - 7-4-1, tied Pitt, lost to Bama, Vandy and Kentucky, Florida, the last three losses by 4, 5, and 1. Upset Tennessee. Beat Maryland in the Peach Bowl.
1974 - 6-6, lost to Houston and Miami of Ohio (Tangerine Bowl), not a good year. Did upset No. 6 Florida.
So, they were glad to see me leave town. In 1975, they were 9-3 and made the Cotton Bowl (a loss). In 1976, they won the conference. They beat Alabama 21-0 and then went on the road to lose to a poor Ole Miss team. Pitt smoked them in the Sugar Bowl.
21-0 Bama win deserves an old Paul Harvey "And Now the Rest of the Story". On the night before the game, Coach Bryant made one of his All-Time blunders by having the team housed in a downtown Athens hotel. Frat boys (I know because my Nephew was a student and one of them) drove around the hotel all night blowing their horns. A friend of mine who was a member of the Bama team said the players pulled their mattresses out into the hallways in an attempt to get some sleep. All to no avail. Bama played the next day as if they were sleep walking.
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As an aside:
I've never heard or seen anyone call them "pastries."
Patsies, sure.
Creme-puffs.
Directional U, yes.
High school teams.
But not pastries. It's interesting. Did you get that from somewhere?
pastries is a common term for pay for a home win team or doormats such as Kansas - in this area
creme-puff is a type of pastry
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- 1993: At the time the conference's #2 bowl was the Holiday so 9-1-1 and #11 Ohio State got matched up with unranked and 6-5 BYU.
- 1994: So the Buckeyes headed to State College and got absolutely drilled by the Nittany Lions, 63-14.
- 1995:
- 1996: My parents, little brother, and I drove to Pasadena for the Rose Bowl between 11-0 and #2 ASU and 10-1 and #4 Ohio State. The Buckeyes won
- 1997:
Heh, I did 93' to '01 with Student Football Tickets.
93-97 I got my undergrad in Computer Science Engineering.
98 - Got hired by OSU, but saw my student tickets would be much better and cheaper than staff tickets so I signed up and paid for full time classes. Got my tickets. Then had someone explain to me why I couldn't take a full course load and be an employee. I'd say sorry, they would send me my money back, and I would party on campus like I was still a student.
'99-'01 I got my Masters in Instructional Technology while working at OSU, and every fall would do the same routine of signing up as a full time student to get tickets, procure my tickets, and have them send my my tuition money back. Good Times.
'93 - Only trip to Ann Arbor, Powers threw 3 (or 4) interceptions. My nephew 14 at the time took a beer bottle to the head just before half time and we spent the 2nd half in the first aid station. Also, My first ever bowl game. Raymont Harris "The Quiet Storm" dove across the goal line 3 times, and BYU had the ball at like the 5 yard line with 30 seconds let to try and tie the game.
'94 - I went to that PSU thumping. It took us almost 11 hours to drive home from Happy Valley (but only 6 to get there,) I hated that whole return drive.
'95 - I drove 12 hours up to the Metro Dome to watch Eddie run all over the Gophers. I had a friend in Chicago who let me crash before and after the game. But I didn't get there till like 5 in the morning.
'96 - Driving. Driving is for saps. My Aunt flew me out to Pasadena to watch Jake "the Snake" Roberts mount another huge comeback victor... Nope.
'97 - I went to East Lansing this year, Gary Berry scored twice on defense.
'98 - Illinois for an IllniBuck trophy win.
'99 - I don't think I took a trip this year. If I did I'm not recalling it.
'00 - Took the road trip out to Kinnick Stadium. I recall more about the Iowa Gymnastics team than anything football related.
'01 - OSU West, took the 3 hour trip to Bloomington. Kids wore basketball Jersey's to the football stadium, weird.
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Is it creme-puff or cream-puff?
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A pastry by any other name, except Georgia State, if you're Tennessee.
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A pastry by any other name, except Georgia State, if you're Tennessee.
Poor Vols!
Great location, great fan-base, great tradition, all for nought since Phil Fullmer ceased being the HFC.
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Poor Vols!
Great location, great fan-base, great tradition, all for nought since Phil Fullmer became the HFC.
correction
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correction
OK. That too.
But wasn't Phat Phil the coach in '98?
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Pretty sure I have beat all of you in terms of turn around while I was in school both in depth of despair, and recovery:
Iowa: 19-36 .345, 1975-79
FSU: 25-10 .714, 1980-82
It paid to have Bobby Bowden on my staff.
And, my dad beat all of you, because he went to a second class football school overperforming in football, period.
Iowa: 21-6-1 .768, 1958-60
Paid to have Forest Evashevski on his staff.
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1991: King Barry's 2nd year. 5-6, including losing 6 in a row to OSU, Iowa, Purdue, Illinois, MSU and IU. Beat Minnesota, so that's good. 5-6 was better than 1-10 in 1990.
1992: 5-6 again, but a win against OSU showed promise. You could see something was going on in Madison. Beat Minnesota, so that's good.
1993: 10-1-1. Joe Panos famously said "Why not Wisconsin?" when a reporter asked him which of UM and OSU would win the conference. Damn Goophers upset Bucky, costing UW a show at being 11-0-1 - which would have made them the only unbeaten team in the country. MNC, probably. F You, Goophs. 10-1-1 was a nice graduation present though.
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OK. That too.
But wasn't Phat Phil the coach in '98?
he was. i think that was the second year after he ousted majors.
majors died just the other day, btw, just a couple days after pat dye passed away.
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he was. i think that was the second year after he ousted majors.
majors died just the other day, btw, just a couple days after pat dye passed away.
I remember Majors from his time at Iowa State back in the old Big 8 when life was good and the wishbone offense ruled CFB.