CFB51 College Football Fan Community
The Power Five => Big Ten => Topic started by: ELA on April 29, 2020, 09:11:02 PM
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The 6 year old asked me which team had the most rivals, and I said probably Notre Dame. They are my FIL favorite team, so he asked why, but I didn't feel like going down the road that his Catholic pappy who didn't go there is a big part of it.
Then he asked who had the least. My thought (limiting it to P5 schools) is that obviously helmets or schools with any amount of sustained periods of success are out. So schools that maybe don't have a ton of football success, but have some basketball carryover like Indiana, UNC, Kentucky or Purdue are out. Then private schools, and their fake academic standards are out. Then schools with multiple primary rivals like Minnesota and NC State are out.
So who is left? My best guess was Washington State. Thoughts?
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Rice?
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Not P5, and private. No clue, but I assume they use manufactured academic requirements as an excuse
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Wazzu is a good choice. Oregon St is right there too. Iowa St and K St are in the discussion.
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Arkansas? Can someone hire Bielema again for my enjoyment?
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Wazzu is a good choice. Oregon St is right there too. Iowa St and K St are in the discussion.
Iowa St and K St from a Big 8 Big 12 perspective
Northwestern from the Big Ten. Stand up coach and academics?
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I love Nebraska. Love.
Out of conference? I'd say Rutgers, I guess? Maybe Maryland?
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Iowa St and K St from a Big 8 Big 12 perspective
Northwestern from the Big Ten. Stand up coach and academics?
Yeah, though Fitz was pretty grouchy in interviews this past season. I know they had an unexpectedly rough year, but those sound bites were brutal.
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Arkansas? Can someone hire Bielema again for my enjoyment?
Last Wisconsin coach to preside over a Wisconsin ass kicking of Ohio? You don't like him?
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Last Wisconsin coach to preside over a Wisconsin ass kicking of Ohio? You don't like him?
I do like him for entertainment purposes. It was more fun when he was the Wisconsin coach. Chryst is obviously better and more classy, but it's fun to have a coach like that in the league. Same with Harbaugh and PJ Barnum. And James Franklin to a lesser extent.
Wasn't it also more fun when we could all hate Tom Cream at IU. Now he is purgatory in the SEC somewhere.
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I’m thinking Colorado. They don’t maintain any active rivalries from the Big 8/Big 12, don’t really have an established rival in the PAC, and they’re always trying to find a way to drop the Rocky Mountain Showdown game.
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Last Wisconsin coach to preside over a Wisconsin ass kicking of Ohio? You don't like him?
Ah harkening back thru the dim mists of antiquity.Prolly because Bert couldn't help popping off and the rest of us couldn't help cheering as the crow was being served up
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it's not colorado
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I dunno Jimmy Johnson's Canes come to mind
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least disliked is nearly a double negative
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Not P5, and private. No clue, but I assume they use manufactured academic requirements as an excuse
Oh, missed your P5 distinction, and don't agree that private should be one, that seems weird and arbitrary.
Anyway, I'm not sure there's a real answer here. Every school is hated by someone. Even Wofford.
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Someone said it already, but Rutgers.
New to the conference. Not much history in the last conference.
Illinois seems pretty tepid, but that's only because they have an in-state rivalry that seems more tame than most.
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Now that I think about it Rutgers seems the obvious choice. Even Wazzu and Oregon St have in state rivals that don’t like them. RU doesn’t even have that. No success in basketball or football to breed jealousy. I think the answer is Rutgers.
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In the ACC, Boston College, eh?
Wake Forest is probably not disliked much either. Outside your conference, who do you most like to root against when they play? You'll watch hoping they lose, if they are not ranked ahead of your team ...
Eastern Michigan is the obvious choice ...
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Oh, missed your P5 distinction, and don't agree that private should be one, that seems weird and arbitrary.
Anyway, I'm not sure there's a real answer here. Every school is hated by someone. Even Wofford.
I think any of the private schools create a certain amount of dislike, based on the type of students they attract, and the "academics" fall back.
If that isn't a thing for you, I think that's fair, but I think there are enough people with those feelings to eliminate them as a possibility
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In the ACC, Boston College, eh?
Wake Forest is probably not disliked much either. Outside your conference, who do you most like to root against when they play? You'll watch hoping they lose, if they are not ranked ahead of your team ...
Eastern Michigan is the obvious choice ...
BC is a good one.
I thought about Wake, but they have 3 conference rivals within their state.
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I think any of the private schools create a certain amount of dislike, based on the type of students they attract, and the "academics" fall back.
If that isn't a thing for you, I think that's fair, but I think there are enough people with those feelings to eliminate them as a possibility
I'm just saying, nobody down here in Texico hates Rice. Most people like them quite a bit. Lots of folks would love to have gone there, if they could have gotten in, or could have afforded it.
Sure they're not P5 now, but they were in a major conference for the first 100 years of football or so.
So I say, to heck with your rules. For me, Rice is the clear answer here.
Rutgers is out, because every Texas fan that went up to see the Horns play against Rutgers in the early 2000s, was treated like crap by their "townie"-type fans. So no, eff Rutgers, I disallow them.
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BC is a good one.
I thought about Wake, but they have 3 conference rivals within their state.
Isn't Boston College private? Not that *I* care about that distinction of course... :)
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Isn't Boston College private? Not that *I* care about that distinction of course... :)
Yeah, as is Wake Forest. I meant more the stuffy, elitist ones with the academic aspect. Your Duke, Vanderbilt, Northwestern, Rice, Stanford, etc..., that invoke equal parts envy and eye rolling.
I painted with too broad of a brush
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The problem with Wake Forest is their name.
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Then private schools, and their fake academic standards are out.
Northwestern from the Big Ten. Stand up coach and academics?
:sign0098:
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I'm just saying, nobody down here in Texico hates Rice. Most people like them quite a bit. Lots of folks would love to have gone there, if they could have gotten in, or could have afforded it.
Sure they're not P5 now, but they were in a major conference for the first 100 years of football or so.
So I say, to heck with your rules. For me, Rice is the clear answer here.
Rutgers is out, because every Texas fan that went up to see the Horns play against Rutgers in the early 2000s, was treated like crap by their "townie"-type fans. So no, eff Rutgers, I disallow them.
I don't like Rice.
I don't like smart-ass bands that make their money ridiculing the visiting team and its fans.
I don't like the way Rice treated one of my former students--class valedictorian, Academic All-State, son of Mexican immigrants, first in his family to graduate from high school--when he went there for an interview. He got accepted but chose to go elsewhere.
But as far as football goes, Rice is too insignificant to hate.
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Eastern Michigan isn't.
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I think of this and it just has to be whoever is most harmless. The least threatening program to my school or to any school with a big fanbase.
In the past 50 years, who is the worst program? First, let's remove the private scholarlies:
.336 Vanderbilt
.366 Duke
.386 Northwestern
.405 Wake Forest
Okay, with those out of the way, here are the worst public, P5 programs. I think our "winner" will be the one who lacks a rival (Rutgers?) or who's rival doesn't return the favor.
.355 Oregon State
.383 Kansas
.386 Indiana
.412 Iowa State
.425 Illinois (wow, that's shameful)
Okay, so if their rival is really good, then it has bigger fish to fry, and the rivalry is one-sided in terms of passion. If the rival is bad, then it's more contested and matters more to both sides.
Oregon State having the worst winning % and having a strong rival (Oregon), makes me lean towards them. Duke's rival isn't as good (UNC), both both care more about basketball anyway, so it's sort of a big shrug. Kansas' top rival is Missouri? or K-State, both of which are decent long-range programs, but neither is as good as Oregon, and so neither is as apathetic towards them.
I'm going Oregon State. They even have a harmless mascot.
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I don't like Rice.
So you're a quinoa man?
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I'm going with Utah
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I gotta admit, if my team announced a H&A series with Oregon State, I'd be pretty meh about it.
That's perhaps another vector.
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I'm going with Utah
That's kind of a cheat, having been G5 for so long. I'd set Utah and TCU aside, to be fair.
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Rutgers at least has historical rivals (Princeton, Lehigh, Lafayette) that they obviously don't play in football any more but do in other sports.
If you look at the non-power conference schools, Hawaii seems like an obvious answer as well, due to their geography, of course. Do they really have any rivals?
Then there's the interesting case of Liberty. They don't really have any rivals in the traditional sense, but the university has become even more politicized then ever, of course.
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What about Georgia State if we go G5? Well, I guess they are a rival if you are a Vol fan.
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In the Big Ten I would go with Illinois. Seriously, does anyone really care about it for football? Purdue and Indiana have each other (and ND) to compete with in-state. Iowa has Iowa State, Minnesota, and Wisconsin; Minnesota has Iowa and Wisconsin, Nebraska has too big a target on its back...Illinois is milquetoast. Rutgers and Maryland don't belong.
I think Iowa State has a serious claim to this. Sure, it has Iowa, but Iowa's big rivals are Minnesota and Wisconsin, aren't they?
Wazzu and Oregon State both have big rivalries in their home states, but outside of those in-state rivalries, no one else in their conference really cares about them (Cal is similar, with its Stanford rivalry and nothing else).
Boston College also has the Notre Dame thing. Domers do not like BC (mostly because of 1993). I think if you're in the SEC you're out--even if you are Arkansas--be nature of being in the SEC. Of the Big 12, K-State was successful enough under Snyder that there were plenty of people who didn't like it, same with Colorado back in the late 80s, early 90s. Which leads me back to Iowa State.
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I'm going with Utah
I don't know about that one, primarily because I assume they've got BYU thinking they're a bunch of godless heathens while they must think BYU is full of sanctimonious prigs.
So they may only have one true "rival", but I think it's a real rivalry.
What about Syracuse? They basically don't have any in-state rival in P5. Is Pitt their rival? How serious is that rivalry?
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I don't like Rice.
I don't like smart-ass bands that make their money ridiculing the visiting team and its fans.
I don't like the way Rice treated one of my former students--class valedictorian, Academic All-State, son of Mexican immigrants, first in his family to graduate from high school--when he went there for an interview. He got accepted but chose to go elsewhere.
But as far as football goes, Rice is too insignificant to hate.
Well there you have it. As I said, you can find somebody, that dislikes anybody. *shrug*
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In the Big Ten I would go with Illinois. Seriously, does anyone really care about it for football? Purdue and Indiana have each other (and ND) to compete with in-state. Iowa has Iowa State, Minnesota, and Wisconsin; Minnesota has Iowa and Wisconsin, Nebraska has too big a target on its back...Illinois is milquetoast. Rutgers and Maryland don't belong.
I think Iowa State has a serious claim to this. Sure, it has Iowa, but Iowa's big rivals are Minnesota and Wisconsin, aren't they?
Wazzu and Oregon State both have big rivalries in their home states, but outside of those in-state rivalries, no one else in their conference really cares about them (Cal is similar, with its Stanford rivalry and nothing else).
Boston College also has the Notre Dame thing. Domers do not like BC (mostly because of 1993). I think if you're in the SEC you're out--even if you are Arkansas--be nature of being in the SEC. Of the Big 12, K-State was successful enough under Snyder that there were plenty of people who didn't like it, same with Colorado back in the late 80s, early 90s. Which leads me back to Iowa State.
Kinda with you on Illinois, and conversely on Northwestern. Their "rivalry" doesn't strike me as all that real, more of a manufactured thing since they're both in the same state. And Illinois is more of a pro sports state, so it doesn't garner as much interest.
Whereas Purdue/Indiana, as two large public institutions, on either end of the state, is much more real. Purdue/Indiana's football rivalry is of course helped by their basketball rivalry, in a basketball-crazy state, so although neither team is typically very good at football we at least care about the football rivalry.
I kinda agree with Iowa State. At least with OU/OrSU and with UW/WSU they are in-state rivals AND conference rivals. So while maybe Oregon sometimes has bigger sights on Stanford or UW, losing to OrSU would impact their conference race. Whereas ISU/Iowa might be important in-state, but either team can lose the rivalry game with no effect on their conference race, and both teams also have conference rivals (less so for ISU though).
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That's kind of a cheat, having been G5 for so long. I'd set Utah and TCU aside, to be fair.
TCU has lots of rivals that dislike them, anyway. Baylor and SMU hate 'em.
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Where would Georgia Tech fit in this discussion? Not consequential enough even to "not dislike"?
Heh.
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Then there's the interesting case of Liberty. They don't really have any rivals in the traditional sense, but the university has become even more politicized then ever, of course.
Liberty's biggest rival is probably biology professors. :57:
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You can have a harmless, meh rival. Any one-sided rivalry is meh.
Since 1975, Oregon has an 11-0-1 streak vs the Beavs and are currently on an 11-1 run in the last 12 years. They can call it the Civil War and call it a rivalry, but Oregon State is battling the cellar, not the Ducks.
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Where would Georgia Tech fit in this discussion? Not consequential enough even to "not dislike"?
Heh.
Imagine GT lost 2 additional games every season for the past 50 years. That's the type of "rival" Oregon plays every year. Talk about apathy.
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That was some solid shade thrown at GaTech by the Dawg guy. But I think you're onto something.
Having said that, the casual fan probably knows about GaTech's rivalry (such as it is) with Georgia. Oregon/Oregon State's Civil War is a thing. Does anyone outside of Iowa even know that Iowa and Iowa State have a game every year?
And back to Illinois--does it even have a rival? (Yes, Northwestern is manufactured so that they have a game to play that fits the B1G definition of rivalry games). If you're not in the Big Ten, do you ever think about Illinois football?
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What about Georgia State if we go G5? Well, I guess they are a rival if you are a Vol fan.
Ouch!
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In the Big Ten I would go with Illinois. Seriously, does anyone really care about it for football? Purdue and Indiana have each other (and ND) to compete with in-state. Iowa has Iowa State, Minnesota, and Wisconsin; Minnesota has Iowa and Wisconsin, Nebraska has too big a target on its back...Illinois is milquetoast. Rutgers and Maryland don't belong.
I think Iowa State has a serious claim to this. Sure, it has Iowa, but Iowa's big rivals are Minnesota and Wisconsin, aren't they?
Wazzu and Oregon State both have big rivalries in their home states, but outside of those in-state rivalries, no one else in their conference really cares about them (Cal is similar, with its Stanford rivalry and nothing else).
Boston College also has the Notre Dame thing. Domers do not like BC (mostly because of 1993). I think if you're in the SEC you're out--even if you are Arkansas--be nature of being in the SEC. Of the Big 12, K-State was successful enough under Snyder that there were plenty of people who didn't like it, same with Colorado back in the late 80s, early 90s. Which leads me back to Iowa State.
Iowa State handed OU its last home loss, so I hate those bastages!!!
Not really. How can you hate Iowa State? They're overachievers and they have great, loyal fans. There's nothing to hate about them.
Oh, maybe those all-red unis look bad. But not bad enough to hate.
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Iowa State handed OU its last home loss, so I hate those bastages!!!
Not really. How can you hate Iowa State? They're overachievers and they have great, loyal fans. There's nothing to hate about them.
Oh, maybe those all-red unis look bad. But not bad enough to hate.
Their bird-in-a-blender logo is pretty sad, too. But not worthy of hatred.
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GaTech has been pretty pathetic of late, notwithstanding how good they were in the 1950s and 1960s. I bet if you read your team had scheduled a series with Tech today you'd think very much mehish about it. You might think "Well, one will be in the ATL and maybe I'll visit the CFB HOF or something."
But they are probably top ten on any Apathy Scale. Even Dawg fans have stopped hating them. It's not like they are Eastern Michigan or something.
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I thought ISU ditched the bird-in-a-blender in favor of I-STATE.
If they bring that thing back, I might have to reconsider.
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I thought ISU ditched the bird-in-a-blender in favor of I-STATE.
If they bring that thing back, I might have to reconsider.
Not sure, haven't paid enough attention to them to notice, honestly, which is why they're a perfect candidate for this nomination for this thread.
But in my mind, I'll always see the bird-in-a-blender. What has been seen, cannot be unseen.
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You can have a harmless, meh rival. Any one-sided rivalry is meh.
Since 1975, Oregon has an 11-0-1 streak vs the Beavs and are currently on an 11-1 run in the last 12 years. They can call it the Civil War and call it a rivalry, but Oregon State is battling the cellar, not the Ducks.
I have Ducks fans friends. They relish that game, even as they dominate. They also took a decade off Washington and loved that.
Wisconsin took like 14 in a row from Minnesota, and that rivalry was far from apathetic.
Shoot, sometimes the one-sided ones are the most bitter. Nothing powers that like long stretches of futility and the "big brother" looking down on an opponent.
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Nothing powers that like long stretches of futility and the "big brother" looking down on an opponent.
Yup,Wolverine Fans were borderline brutal during the Cooper years.So with the exception of Tressel's 1st year where tOSU traveled to AA and won as a dog,Ive shown restraint.I think they sense sympathy which really pisses them off
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I've mentioned before that were it in my power, I would stop scheduling Tech. Now, perhaps in 5 years they will get back to some semblance of mediocrity. Maybe.
I'd much rather play just about any other P5 team, though some of those mentioned herein would be close.
Is there a word "mehitis"? There should be, unless you just don't care ....
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When the Buckeyes scheduled Colorado and OSU3 they were just one off home games, with no return game. Like bringing in a MAC team.
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Florida's playing Utah, Cal, Arizona St, CU, and Texas as our next 4 OOC home-and-homes, with Miami sprinkled in there.
In 2028, the Gators will play CU, @ASU, and @FSU OOC. And @Texas, ASU, and FSU in 2031.
Maybe by then the Noles won't suck.
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Florida's playing Utah, Cal, Arizona St, CU, and Texas as our next 4 OOC home-and-homes, with Miami sprinkled in there.
In 2028, the Gators will play CU, @ASU, and @FSU OOC. And @Texas, ASU, and FSU in 2031.
Maybe by then the Noles won't suck.
Maybe by then Texas won't suck, either. :'(
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In the Big Ten I would go with Illinois. Seriously, does anyone really care about it for football? Purdue and Indiana have each other (and ND) to compete with in-state. Iowa has Iowa State, Minnesota, and Wisconsin; Minnesota has Iowa and Wisconsin, Nebraska has too big a target on its back...Illinois is milquetoast. Rutgers and Maryland don't belong.
I think Iowa State has a serious claim to this. Sure, it has Iowa, but Iowa's big rivals are Minnesota and Wisconsin, aren't they?
Wazzu and Oregon State both have big rivalries in their home states, but outside of those in-state rivalries, no one else in their conference really cares about them (Cal is similar, with its Stanford rivalry and nothing else).
Boston College also has the Notre Dame thing. Domers do not like BC (mostly because of 1993). I think if you're in the SEC you're out--even if you are Arkansas--be nature of being in the SEC. Of the Big 12, K-State was successful enough under Snyder that there were plenty of people who didn't like it, same with Colorado back in the late 80s, early 90s. Which leads me back to Iowa State.
Sorry, I hate Illinois. The Iowa-Illinois football rivalry was suspended 1952 - 1967 on account of Illinois's bad behavior. In basketball Illinois offered Iowa recruit Deion Thomas a Chevy Suburban or something per Deion in a recorded call with an Iowa assistant coach when Deion was recruited. When he landed at Illinois the Illini received full immunity due to the automobile exception to the amateur athlete status in the NCAA. Ohio State, knows this exception, too. https://bleacherreport.com/articles/721390-ohio-state-football-scandal-part-2-of-5-cars-lies-and-ray-small (https://bleacherreport.com/articles/721390-ohio-state-football-scandal-part-2-of-5-cars-lies-and-ray-small)
If you ever purchased a game day program you too would be aware of the power of auto dealerships and NCAA football.
From 2009-13 the Iowa did not play Illinois. I didn't miss it. I now enjoy the annual drubbing but could view other drubbings with as much interest, instead.
It is played now and I enjoy it because Illinois cannot hardly compete.
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I would guess any state that has 2 P5 schools like Iowa / Iowa St or Wash / Was St at least has the in-state rivalry thing going.
So my guess is it should be a school that comes from a state with just 1 P5 school. Potential candidates
Mizzou, Minny, Wiscy, Neb, nope they got out of state rivals
Utah, nope they got BYU
Colorado, maybe
Rutgers, maybe
MD, maybe
Arky, maybe
LSU, nope
BC, maybe
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I would guess any state that has 2 P5 schools like Iowa / Iowa St or Wash / Was St at least has the in-state rivalry thing going.
So my guess is it should be a school that comes from a state with just 1 P5 school. Potential candidates
Mizzou, Minny, Wiscy, Neb, nope they got out of state rivals
Utah, nope they got BYU
Colorado, maybe
Rutgers, maybe
MD, maybe
Arky, maybe
LSU, nope
BC, maybe
No worries my friend, Arkansas is still very much hated in Texas. ;)
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I would guess any state that has 2 P5 schools like Iowa / Iowa St or Wash / Was St at least has the in-state rivalry thing going.
So my guess is it should be a school that comes from a state with just 1 P5 school. Potential candidates
Mizzou, Minny, Wiscy, Neb, nope they got out of state rivals
Utah, nope they got BYU
Colorado, maybe
Rutgers, maybe
MD, maybe
Arky, maybe
LSU, nope
BC, maybe
Kansas and Kansas State have plenty of hate for Missouri. It goes back to "Bleeding Kansas" of the 1850s.
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I'd go with BC, though it's subjective of course.
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But BC is private and therefore off-limits! :)
I certainly don't have any dislike for them though. So they pass my test.
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Not one of the academic elitist privates though
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I love Nebraska. Love.
Out of conference? I'd say Rutgers, I guess? Maybe Maryland?
What?
I guess I'm reading this wrong.
"Least Disliked"?
You hate Rutgers. So is it most hated, or one you really don't think about?
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But BC is private and therefore off-limits! :)
I certainly don't have any dislike for them though. So they pass my test.
Well for what it worth in neighboring states call them Massholes.At least thats what my brother said when he lived in Connecticut
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Residents of each state tend to "dislike" residents of neighboring states, perhaps because they don't like mirrors.
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referring to gophers and badgers?
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You and the state of confusion 😜
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Wisconsin and Minnesota are a bit similar. One has 10,000 lakes and the other has 15,000.
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Usually, a person "not from around here" will notice no difference when crossing a state line in any respect, except that the citizens often will express disdain for those on the other side of sad line.
Even going from California to Nevada, you don't see much difference because the folks in CA living nearer Nevada are often country folks anyway, aside from the Tahoe tourism thing.
You see difference driving from SF to the slopes of the Sierra.
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Usually, a person "not from around here" will notice no difference when crossing a state line in any respect, except that the citizens often will express disdain for those on the other side of sad line.
Even going from California to Nevada, you don't see much difference because the folks in CA living nearer Nevada are often country folks anyway, aside from the Tahoe tourism thing.
You see difference driving from SF to the slopes of the Sierra.
This is a particularly good example of the sad line because the border between California and Nevada around Tahoe mostly relates to the legality of casino gambling--and the losses that come with it. Often a sad affair, particularly when returning to the California side.
Much of California would fit in well culturally with Kansas or Wyoming. The part of California that defines the widespread perception of its culture is mostly within about 30 miles of the Pacific coast.
Of course, here in my current home city, we can tell the difference between us and the crazy rich people immediately south, and the slightly less refined folks to our immediate north. People from farther away--like, say San Francisco to our north or Palo Alto to our south, can't seem to see any differences, and often confuse us all. Strange when the differences are so obvious to us.
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Are you no longer in SF proper? I thought you were at one point.
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Burlingame, I believe. My step son lives in South Beach, SF proper.
He likes it. It's his birthday today. He works for some fruit company.
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We lived in SF proper until 2008, both kids born there. We've been in Burlingame since then. I still work in SF--well, the office I work in is there. My day job has been in SF since 2000 (if you include my law school as my day job).