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The Power Five => Big Ten => Topic started by: Cincydawg on March 13, 2020, 01:10:35 PM

Title: Teams from the 1930s
Post by: Cincydawg on March 13, 2020, 01:10:35 PM
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1930_college_football_season (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1930_college_football_season)

Alabama beat Washington in the Rose Bowl.  UW wore read jerseys apparently.  Prebowl Dickinson rankings:


[th]Rank[/th]
[th]Team[/th]
[th]Record[/th]
[th]Rating[/th]
1Notre Dame (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1930_Notre_Dame_Fighting_Irish_football_team)10–025.13
2Washington State (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1930_Washington_State_Cougars_football_team)9–020.44
3Alabama (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1930_Alabama_Crimson_Tide_football_team)9–020.18
4Northwestern Wildcats (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1930_Northwestern_Wildcats_football_team)7-118.63
5Michigan (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1930_Michigan_Wolverines_football_team)8–0–118.34
6USC (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1930_USC_Trojans_football_team)8–217.98
7Stanford (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1930_Stanford_Indians_football_team)9–1–117.92
8Dartmouth (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1930_Dartmouth_Indians_football_team)7-1-117.11
9Army (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1930_Army_Cadets_football_team)9–1–116.66
10Tennessee (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1930_Tennessee_Volunteers_football_team)9–116.15
11Tulane (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1930_Tulane_Green_Wave_football_team)8–116.05

Ben Ticknor of Harvard was thge AA Center that year.  His weight was 193 pounds.  Fred Sington of Alabama was AA guard at 215 pounds.  He was Jewish and played the sax and later major league baseball.  Erny Pinckert was AA half back at 197 pounds and played MLB and NFL as well and was brother of Jeanne Dixon.








Title: Re: Teams from the 1930s
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on March 13, 2020, 01:56:06 PM
1930 was a year of massive offense in baseball.  Many players had their career year.
Title: Re: Teams from the 1930s
Post by: rolltidefan on March 13, 2020, 01:58:27 PM
bama beat washington state, not washington.
Title: Re: Teams from the 1930s
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on March 13, 2020, 02:04:12 PM
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1930_college_football_season (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1930_college_football_season)

Alabama beat Washington in the Rose Bowl.  UW wore read jerseys apparently.  Prebowl Dickinson rankings:


[th]Rank[/th]
[th]Team[/th]
[th]Record[/th]
[th]Rating[/th]

1
Notre Dame (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1930_Notre_Dame_Fighting_Irish_football_team)
10–0
25.13

2
Washington State (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1930_Washington_State_Cougars_football_team)
9–0
20.44

3
Alabama (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1930_Alabama_Crimson_Tide_football_team)
9–0
20.18

4
Northwestern Wildcats (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1930_Northwestern_Wildcats_football_team)
7-1
18.63

5
Michigan (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1930_Michigan_Wolverines_football_team)
8–0–1
18.34

6
USC (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1930_USC_Trojans_football_team)
8–2
17.98

7
Stanford (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1930_Stanford_Indians_football_team)
9–1–1
17.92

8
Dartmouth (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1930_Dartmouth_Indians_football_team)
7-1-1
17.11

9
Army (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1930_Army_Cadets_football_team)
9–1–1
16.66

10
Tennessee (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1930_Tennessee_Volunteers_football_team)
9–1
16.15

11
Tulane (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1930_Tulane_Green_Wave_football_team)
8–1
16.05



Ben Ticknor of Harvard was thge AA Center that year.  His weight was 193 pounds.  Fred Sington of Alabama was AA guard at 215 pounds.  He was Jewish and played the sax and later major league baseball.  Erny Pinckert was AA half back at 197 pounds and played MLB and NFL as well and was brother of Jeanne Dixon.









I like to know who lost to whom.

Tulane's only loss was to N'Western.  
USC lost to Wazzou by 1, but was blown out by ND, 27-0.
Michigan's tie was with 5-1-2 MSU.
N'Western was 7-0 before losing to ND, 14-0.
Alabama shut out all but 2 opponents:  Tennessee and Vanderbilt.  
Vandy was good back then, but lost to both Bama and Tennessee.
They were almost certainly better than Stanford, who tied 3-4-1 Minnesota and got drilled by USC.  Stanford also had 3 wins over non-major schools (which back then = high school+).
Title: Re: Teams from the 1930s
Post by: Cincydawg on March 13, 2020, 03:53:58 PM
bama beat washington state, not washington.
Oops
Title: Re: Teams from the 1930s
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on March 13, 2020, 05:03:16 PM
Pretty big decade for OSU, tradition wise. THE GAME was moved to the end of the season, the Gold Pants tradition was implemented, script Ohio became a thing, female cheerleaders popped up, and the modern jersey appeared in its initial incarnation.
Title: Re: Teams from the 1930s
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on March 13, 2020, 05:22:58 PM
Female cheerleaders....that's up there with the wheel, right?
Title: Re: Teams from the 1930s
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on March 13, 2020, 05:41:28 PM
(https://i.pinimg.com/originals/ab/76/b0/ab76b05a28f3a31f9bd2651268d84dfa.jpg)
Title: Re: Teams from the 1930s
Post by: Cincydawg on March 13, 2020, 05:44:10 PM
It seems like modern football, a bit.  Tennessee had some great teams.
Title: Re: Teams from the 1930s
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on March 13, 2020, 06:08:59 PM
The Wolverines had just passed their prime.
Title: Re: Teams from the 1930s
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on March 13, 2020, 07:42:17 PM
(https://i.pinimg.com/originals/ab/76/b0/ab76b05a28f3a31f9bd2651268d84dfa.jpg)
Those anklessssssss
Title: Re: Teams from the 1930s
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on March 13, 2020, 07:58:46 PM
Now that you are done checking out the male cheerleaders in the back, what do you think of the others? O0



Title: Re: Teams from the 1930s
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on March 13, 2020, 08:07:38 PM
Actually, all the chicks look the same.  I bet the first was was slut-shamed for wearing dark socks :57:

(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/proxy/E1HcajGxZgQLQCPlWEA9Hs0AqOqB9L1UcNaLfs_4VfPD12-qWUNezqZCP_CUOgqfh6SXm5HodQxalJYy2QiqrX3RA28QZ5PJAsPaTzYZ70-21xl5NSrv-Mvv32vK0u3gtUghZx63HTxQ6lHbKcxziCLxGtg0ACYvlqp7QxwKghrT63wDQZ20L-Ua)
Ahhh, diversity.
Title: Re: Teams from the 1930s
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on March 13, 2020, 08:13:27 PM
Not the 30s
Title: Re: Teams from the 1930s
Post by: MrNubbz on March 13, 2020, 09:11:24 PM


(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/proxy/E1HcajGxZgQLQCPlWEA9Hs0AqOqB9L1UcNaLfs_4VfPD12-qWUNezqZCP_CUOgqfh6SXm5HodQxalJYy2QiqrX3RA28QZ5PJAsPaTzYZ70-21xl5NSrv-Mvv32vK0u3gtUghZx63HTxQ6lHbKcxziCLxGtg0ACYvlqp7QxwKghrT63wDQZ20L-Ua)
Ahhh, diversity.
Ah 1st qtr highlights jan 15,2015
Title: Re: Teams from the 1930s
Post by: MichiFan87 on March 13, 2020, 09:16:41 PM
The Wolverines had just passed their prime.
The 1940s with Crisler was actually Michigan's most dominant decade after the Yost era..... There were some great and awful teams from the 30s. I never understood the whole story but (eventual president) Gerald Ford was the starting center on some of those teams including the 1-7 1934 team after being 15-0-1 the prior two years and the one win was when they played Georgia Tech which didn't allow the black player (Willis Ward who eventually became a successful lawyer in Detroit) from that team to participate.
Title: Re: Teams from the 1930s
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on March 13, 2020, 10:03:49 PM
USC won the extremely mythical NCs in 1931 and 1932.  To better understand what football scoring was like back then, USC allowed 4.7 points per game in 1931. 
.
That was only good for 24th in the country.  :86:
Title: Re: Teams from the 1930s
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on March 13, 2020, 10:10:25 PM
1930-32 was the end of Amos Alonzo Stagg's 41-year run at the University of Chicago, with losing seasons in all 3.  The Maroons would close out the decade, but would not play a game after 1939.
48 years, 2 head coaches.
Title: Re: Teams from the 1930s
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on March 13, 2020, 10:25:02 PM
The 1940s with Crisler was actually Michigan's most dominant decade after the Yost era..... There were some great and awful teams from the 30s. I never understood the whole story but (eventual president) Gerald Ford was the starting center on some of those teams including the 1-7 1934 team after being 15-0-1 the prior two years and the one win was when they played Georgia Tech which didn't allow the black player (Willis Ward who eventually became a successful lawyer in Detroit) from that team to participate.
Yeah, looking at it....I guess they just had zero depth.  They lost a bunch of good players from 1933 and just stunk in '34.  Same coach.  No major injuries or excuses. 
.
The player held out of the GT game, Ward, scored all of UM's points aside from that game.  Yes, it's despicable that UM allowed a visiting team to dictate the participation of a black player, but looking at quotes from back then, it's certain he'd have been purposely injured (or worse).  
Nowadays, GT would have had to forfeit.  
Title: Re: Teams from the 1930s
Post by: ELA on March 13, 2020, 11:21:10 PM
That is sort of something lost to the ages, with less recruits falling through the cracks, and coaches not simply rewarding tenure, the random great team.  I feel like you used to get the random 1974 Orange Bowl Kansas Jayhawks, or whatever, and then discover they were awful before and after that.

Trying to think of recent examples, and I'm not coming up with any.  I know I just fake used them, but maybe those 2007 Kansas and Missouri teams?  I think Wake Forest won an out of the blue ACC title in there.  You might get a short elite burst like MSU from 2013-2015, or Washington.  But I can't think of any one off great teams recently.  If Baylor could have figured out Oklahoma, maybe they would have fit?  If Kansas State had avoided the one pitfall and played in the BCS champion ship in 2011 or 2012?
Title: Re: Teams from the 1930s
Post by: ELA on March 13, 2020, 11:23:16 PM
The 1940s with Crisler was actually Michigan's most dominant decade after the Yost era..... There were some great and awful teams from the 30s. I never understood the whole story but (eventual president) Gerald Ford was the starting center on some of those teams including the 1-7 1934 team after being 15-0-1 the prior two years and the one win was when they played Georgia Tech which didn't allow the black player (Willis Ward who eventually became a successful lawyer in Detroit) from that team to participate.
Crisler is probably the most underrated coach in conference history
Title: Re: Teams from the 1930s
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on March 14, 2020, 12:42:49 AM
Yeah, teams tend to have 2-3 year runs and not just one-offs.  2007 Kansas definitely fits.  
1990 Georgia Tech, too - finishing unranked the 4 years before their NC and the 6 years after.
2001 Illinois was pretty random....0-11 in '97 and only 1-10 in '03.  If they'd won the Sugar Bowl, they'd have been top 4.
1967 Indiana won a single game the year before going to the Rose Bowl.  That was their last trip to Pasadena, still.
1977 Kentucky was pretty random, going 10-1.
2019 Minnesota is a candidate, but they were able to hang onto their HC.
2000 Oregon State won the Fiesta Bowl and finished 4th.  RANDOM.
Title: Re: Teams from the 1930s
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on March 14, 2020, 12:46:24 AM
That is sort of something lost to the ages, with less recruits falling through the cracks, and coaches not simply rewarding tenure, the random great team.  I feel like you used to get the random 1974 Orange Bowl Kansas Jayhawks, or whatever, and then discover they were awful before and after that.

Trying to think of recent examples, and I'm not coming up with any.  I know I just fake used them, but maybe those 2007 Kansas and Missouri teams?  I think Wake Forest won an out of the blue ACC title in there.  You might get a short elite burst like MSU from 2013-2015, or Washington.  But I can't think of any one off great teams recently.  If Baylor could have figured out Oklahoma, maybe they would have fit?  If Kansas State had avoided the one pitfall and played in the BCS champion ship in 2011 or 2012?
Illinois won a big ten title in 2001 and played in the Rose Bowl on 2007, but have otherwise been putrid this millennium.
Title: Re: Teams from the 1930s
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on March 14, 2020, 01:31:50 AM
Despite being great in '88, the 1993 West Virginia team was pretty random.  They did diddly-poo the 3 years before that and the 8 years after it.  11-0 regular season.
Title: Re: Teams from the 1930s
Post by: Hawkinole on March 14, 2020, 02:01:49 AM
1930-32 was the end of Amos Alonzo Stagg's 41-year run at the University of Chicago, with losing seasons in all 3.  The Maroons would close out the decade, but would not play a game after 1939.
48 years, 2 head coaches.
Actually, University of Chicago now does have a football team. They re-started in the 1960s. The Maroons play in D-III as a member of the Midwestern Conference.
Title: Re: Teams from the 1930s
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on March 14, 2020, 08:33:33 AM
Today the Maroons are in the USA, with Case Western, Emory, Carnegie Mellon, etc.
Title: Re: Teams from the 1930s
Post by: Cincydawg on March 14, 2020, 09:02:40 AM
I find it interesting that the running backs weighed about the same as the OLs, around 200 pounds.  I think the OLs were 230 or so typically when I was in school 1970s era.

It would be interesting to see a chart of the average weight of OLs in P5 by year (or decade).  I'd guess it's about 290 today, maybe 300.

UGA was 328 last season, average.  How much did the Fridge weight?  I think around 300 and he was considered to be a monster.
Title: Re: Teams from the 1930s
Post by: MrNubbz on March 14, 2020, 09:06:05 AM
Today the Maroons are in the USA, with Case Western, Emory, Carnegie Mellon, etc.
I knew CWR isn't in Conf.USA,so I looked it up - President's Athletic Conference
Title: Re: Teams from the 1930s
Post by: FearlessF on March 14, 2020, 09:53:12 AM
I find it interesting that the running backs weighed about the same as the OLs, around 200 pounds.  I think the OLs were 230 or so typically when I was in school 1970s era.

It would be interesting to see a chart of the average weight of OLs in P5 by year (or decade).  I'd guess it's about 290 today, maybe 300.

UGA was 328 last season, average.  How much did the Fridge weight?  I think around 300 and he was considered to be a monster.
just a guess, no research done, but Boyd Eply's weight training and conditioning program may have caused a jump in weight of players
Title: Re: Teams from the 1930s
Post by: Cincydawg on March 14, 2020, 10:00:39 AM
https://www.businessinsider.com/nfl-offensive-lineman-are-big-2011-10#1920s-pierre-garon-wr-washington-redskins-1 (https://www.businessinsider.com/nfl-offensive-lineman-are-big-2011-10#1920s-pierre-garon-wr-washington-redskins-1)

In the 1920s, the average offensive lineman was the size of today's smaller wide receivers, 6-foot-0, 211 pounds.

In the 1950s, the average offensive lineman was the same size as a quarterback today, 6-foot-2, 234 pounds.

In the 1960s, the average offensive lineman was the same size as today's linebackers, 6-foot-3, 251 pounds.

In the 1970s, the average offensive lineman was the same size as today's outside linebackers, 6-foot-3, 255 pounds.

In the 1980s, the average offensive lineman was the same size as today's defensive ends, 6-foot-4, 272 pounds.

In the 1990s, the average offensive lineman was the same size as today's bigger defensive ends, 6-foot-4, 300 pounds.

In the 2000s, the average offensive lineman was the same size as today's centers, 6-foot-4, 313 pounds.

In 2015, the Bryan Bulaga is the average offensive lineman at 6-foot-5, 312 pounds.

Title: Re: Teams from the 1930s
Post by: FearlessF on March 14, 2020, 10:05:36 AM
pretty good bump in the 80s perhaps due to roids and weight training

a better bump in the 90s

starting to level off today?
Title: Re: Teams from the 1930s
Post by: FearlessF on March 15, 2020, 06:53:11 PM
1930: Coach Dana X. Bible says Prohibition has been a benefit to colleges. Meanwhile, his 1930 team's first intrasquad games of spring are held.

https://nebnewspapers.unl.edu/lccn/sn96080312/1930-03-16/ed-1/seq-1/ (https://nebnewspapers.unl.edu/lccn/sn96080312/1930-03-16/ed-1/seq-1/)

https://nebnewspapers.unl.edu/lccn/sn96080312/1930-03-16/ed-1/seq-4/ (https://nebnewspapers.unl.edu/lccn/sn96080312/1930-03-16/ed-1/seq-4/)
Title: Re: Teams from the 1930s
Post by: CWSooner on March 15, 2020, 11:07:17 PM
That is sort of something lost to the ages, with less recruits falling through the cracks, and coaches not simply rewarding tenure, the random great team.  I feel like you used to get the random 1974 Orange Bowl Kansas Jayhawks, or whatever, and then discover they were awful before and after that.

Trying to think of recent examples, and I'm not coming up with any.  I know I just fake used them, but maybe those 2007 Kansas and Missouri teams?  I think Wake Forest won an out of the blue ACC title in there.  You might get a short elite burst like MSU from 2013-2015, or Washington.  But I can't think of any one off great teams recently.  If Baylor could have figured out Oklahoma, maybe they would have fit?  If Kansas State had avoided the one pitfall and played in the BCS champion ship in 2011 or 2012?
You almost accidentally hit on Kansas.  KU did not play in the 1974 (season) Orange Bowl, Notre Dame and Alabama did.
But Kansas did play in the 1968 (season) Orange Bowl, losing 15-14 to Penn State.
And Missouri played Penn State in the 1969 (season) Orange Bowl, losing 10-3.
Nebraska and/or Oklahoma would then appear in 16 of the next 19 Orange Bowls, with both appearing in after the 1978 season.
Title: Re: Teams from the 1930s
Post by: FearlessF on March 16, 2020, 10:55:00 AM
backpedaling from 1930 to 1918 - thought this was timely................

 Running a college football program during a major war is a challenge enough. Calls to duty send rosters into constant flux. Sports tend to slip several notches down society’s list of priorities.

Toss in the horrific Spanish flu pandemic and it’s a wonder any games were played at all in 1918.

The 1918 Nebraska schedule originally consisted of this 10-game lineup. In a season of ever-changing circumstances and at least a dozen schedule adjustments, only two games would be played as originally billed. A third would happen only after twice being postponed.


https://www.huskermax.com/1918-war-influenza-and-football/ (https://www.huskermax.com/1918-war-influenza-and-football/)

OCT. 1: INFLUENZA HITS LINCOLN

Spanish influenza swept into the state in late September and is now officially a concern in Lincoln. But it’s not enough of a worry to call off the Oct. 5 season opener against Iowa. The Daily Nebraskan contains a number of precautions to follow, such as avoiding “crowded street cars, rooms, etc.” Even so, students “packed the Temple theatre to the rafters” for a pep rally later in the week.

OCT. 7: DEATH COMES TO CAMPUS

On the Monday after the Iowa game, the university’s first flu-related fatality is reported in the Daily Nebraskan. The death of John J. Knoll was technically caused by pneumonia, as was common in influenza cases. By the end of the week, at least five more fatal university cases would be reported.

OCT. 12: UNIVERSITY CLOSED

The university heeds a Lincoln City Council order that all schools, theaters, churches and places of public amusement or gathering be closed indefinitely. The 1,700-member Student Army Training Corps, which includes the football players, is not affected, however. Meanwhile, the university unsuccessfully pursues Illinois as a possible Thanksgiving opponent.

OCT. 22: NO SCRIMMAGE FOR YOU!

Hoping to tune up for the Nov. 2 Notre Dame game, the Huskers schedule a three-way public scrimmage at Nebraska Field for Saturday, Oct. 26, with Cotner College and Nebraska Wesleyan. But a widening of state flu restrictions to include outdoor gatherings puts an end to those plans. The citywide death toll is now above 90.

OCT. 29: A SCRIMMAGE, BUT FANS BARRED

With armed guards stationed at the Nebraska Field gates to enforce the ban on public gatherings, the Huskers trample Cotner College in a Tuesday afternoon scrimmage, 33-0. The Notre Dame game is now just four days away, and the ban is expected to be lifted by then. Meanwhile, hopes of landing the Great Lakes Navy Bluejackets as a Thanksgiving opponent don’t pan out. (The “Jackies,” with George Halas starring, would win the 1919 Rose Bowl.)

WINS, LOSSES AND MORTALITY

Though Nebraska’s final record of 2-3-1 was unspectacular, the team’s perseverance though grim circumstances stands out. By the end of the year, Lincoln’s official tally of flu deaths had reached 265, more than half occurring in the brutal month of October. The state’s death toll was reported to be anywhere from 2,800 to 7,500. Globally, the great war killed 15 million to 19 million people, including 751 Nebraskans. The flu pandemic is believed to have taken 50 million to 100 million lives.
Title: Re: Teams from the 1930s
Post by: Cincydawg on March 16, 2020, 11:00:05 AM
https://tiptop25.com/champ1931.html (https://tiptop25.com/champ1931.html)

(https://i.imgur.com/shntvfY.png)

Pictured above is 1931's game of the year, 6-1 Southern Cal at 6-0-1 Notre Dame. Notre Dame had not lost in 26 games, and they carried a 14-0 lead into the 4th quarter. But USC came roaring all the way back, kicking a 33 yard field goal with a minute left for a monumental 16-14 victory. After that USC won out, beating 5-3-1 Washington 44-7, 9-2 Georgia 60-0, and 11-1 Tulane 21-12 in the Rose Bowl. They would certainly have finished ranked #1 in an AP poll had there been one in 1931.

Here is how the "major selectors" listed in the NCAA Records Book, all selecting retroactively, see the 1931 college football national championship (omitting math/computer ratings (https://tiptop25.com/mathratings.html), which neither I nor anyone else recognize as constituting titles):

10-1 Southern CalHelms (https://tiptop25.com/helms.html), National Championship Foundation (https://tiptop25.com/ncfoundation.html), CFB Researchers (https://tiptop25.com/cfbresearchers.html)
8-1 Pittsburgh: Parke Davis (https://tiptop25.com/parkedavis.html) (tie)
9-1 Purdue: Parke Davis (https://tiptop25.com/parkedavis.html) (tie)

The only other team I will be summarizing in this article is Tennessee. They went 9-0-1 for the 3rd time in 4 years, and all 3 years it was Kentucky who tied them. This year Kentucky finished 5-2-2 and would not have been ranked in an AP poll, which hurts Tennessee's cause, but the Volunteers defeated 9-1 Alabama 25-0, and they won 13-0 at 6-3-1 NYU in their finale.

Title: Re: Teams from the 1930s
Post by: Cincydawg on March 16, 2020, 11:00:49 AM
Tulane went 11-0 in the regular season under head coach Bernie Bierman, who would soon move on to Minnesota and win 5 consensus MNCs 1934-1941. But Southern Cal denied Tulane an MNC in the Rose Bowl. As indicated, 7-1-1 Northwestern's MNC hopes ended in their finale against Purdue, and 9-1 Alabama, co-MNC of 1930 (https://tiptop25.com/champ1930.html), was drubbed 25-0 by Tennessee. 8-1 Colgate lost 13-0 at 6-3-1 NYU, and 7-1 Cornell lost 14-0 at 5-3-1 Dartmouth, and neither played a tough enough schedule to put them in MNC contention with those losses. 7-1-1 Syracuse lost to Colgate, and 7-1-1 Columbia lost to Cornell, and the 2 teams tied each other to end the season.
Title: Re: Teams from the 1930s
Post by: CWSooner on March 16, 2020, 11:36:26 AM
backpedaling from 1930 to 1918 - thought this was timely................

 Running a college football program during a major war is a challenge enough. Calls to duty send rosters into constant flux. Sports tend to slip several notches down society’s list of priorities.

Toss in the horrific Spanish flu pandemic and it’s a wonder any games were played at all in 1918.

The 1918 Nebraska schedule originally consisted of this 10-game lineup. In a season of ever-changing circumstances and at least a dozen schedule adjustments, only two games would be played as originally billed. A third would happen only after twice being postponed.


https://www.huskermax.com/1918-war-influenza-and-football/ (https://www.huskermax.com/1918-war-influenza-and-football/)

OCT. 1: INFLUENZA HITS LINCOLN

Spanish influenza swept into the state in late September and is now officially a concern in Lincoln. But it’s not enough of a worry to call off the Oct. 5 season opener against Iowa. The Daily Nebraskan contains a number of precautions to follow, such as avoiding “crowded street cars, rooms, etc.” Even so, students “packed the Temple theatre to the rafters” for a pep rally later in the week.

OCT. 7: DEATH COMES TO CAMPUS

On the Monday after the Iowa game, the university’s first flu-related fatality is reported in the Daily Nebraskan. The death of John J. Knoll was technically caused by pneumonia, as was common in influenza cases. By the end of the week, at least five more fatal university cases would be reported.

OCT. 12: UNIVERSITY CLOSED

The university heeds a Lincoln City Council order that all schools, theaters, churches and places of public amusement or gathering be closed indefinitely. The 1,700-member Student Army Training Corps, which includes the football players, is not affected, however. Meanwhile, the university unsuccessfully pursues Illinois as a possible Thanksgiving opponent.

OCT. 22: NO SCRIMMAGE FOR YOU!

Hoping to tune up for the Nov. 2 Notre Dame game, the Huskers schedule a three-way public scrimmage at Nebraska Field for Saturday, Oct. 26, with Cotner College and Nebraska Wesleyan. But a widening of state flu restrictions to include outdoor gatherings puts an end to those plans. The citywide death toll is now above 90.

OCT. 29: A SCRIMMAGE, BUT FANS BARRED

With armed guards stationed at the Nebraska Field gates to enforce the ban on public gatherings, the Huskers trample Cotner College in a Tuesday afternoon scrimmage, 33-0. The Notre Dame game is now just four days away, and the ban is expected to be lifted by then. Meanwhile, hopes of landing the Great Lakes Navy Bluejackets as a Thanksgiving opponent don’t pan out. (The “Jackies,” with George Halas starring, would win the 1919 Rose Bowl.)

WINS, LOSSES AND MORTALITY

Though Nebraska’s final record of 2-3-1 was unspectacular, the team’s perseverance though grim circumstances stands out. By the end of the year, Lincoln’s official tally of flu deaths had reached 265, more than half occurring in the brutal month of October. The state’s death toll was reported to be anywhere from 2,800 to 7,500. Globally, the great war killed 15 million to 19 million people, including 751 Nebraskans. The flu pandemic is believed to have taken 50 million to 100 million lives.
Good stuff, Fearless.
The 1918-19 pandemic was called the Spanish Flu, but it may have started in the U.S.  It spread rapidly, partly because the Wilson administration didn't want to lower wartime morale by admitting that it existed, and so censored any mention of it.
Per the Font of All Wisdom and Knowledge:
Quote
The 1918 influenza pandemic (January 1918 – December 1920; colloquially (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colloquialism) known as the Spanish flu) was an unusually deadly influenza pandemic (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Influenza_pandemic), the first of the two pandemics (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pandemics) involving H1N1 influenza virus (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Influenza_A_virus_subtype_H1N1), with the second being the swine flu in 2009 (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2009_flu_pandemic).[1] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spanish_flu#cite_note-1) The Spanish flu infected 500 million people around the world,[2] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spanish_flu#cite_note-FOOTNOTETaubenbergerMorens2006-2) or about 27% of the then world population of between 1.8 and 1.9 billion, including people on isolated Pacific islands (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pacific_islands) and in the Arctic (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arctic). The death toll is estimated to have been anywhere from 17 million[3] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spanish_flu#cite_note-Spreeuwenberg-3) to 50 million, and possibly as high as 100 million, making it one of the deadliest epidemics (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_epidemics) in human history.[4] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spanish_flu#cite_note-4)[5] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spanish_flu#cite_note-5)
Infectious diseases (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Infectious_diseases) already limited life expectancy (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Life_expectancy) in the early 20th century, but life expectancy in the United States dropped by about 12 years in the first year of the pandemic.[6] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spanish_flu#cite_note-6)[7] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spanish_flu#cite_note-7)[8] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spanish_flu#cite_note-8) Most influenza outbreaks disproportionately kill the very young and the very old, with a higher survival rate for those in between, but the Spanish flu pandemic resulted in a higher than expected mortality rate for young adults.[9] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spanish_flu#cite_note-9)
To maintain morale, wartime (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_War_I) censors minimized early reports of illness and mortality in Germany, the United Kingdom, France, and the United States.[10] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spanish_flu#cite_note-FOOTNOTEValentine2006-10)[11] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spanish_flu#cite_note-11) Papers were free to report the epidemic's effects in neutral Spain (such as the grave illness of King Alfonso XIII (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alfonso_XIII_of_Spain)).[12] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spanish_flu#cite_note-FOOTNOTEPorras-GalloDavis2014-12) These stories created a false impression of Spain as especially hard hit,[13] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spanish_flu#cite_note-FOOTNOTEBarry2004171-13) giving rise to the pandemic's nickname, "Spanish flu".[14] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spanish_flu#cite_note-FOOTNOTEGalvin2007-14)
Scientists offer several possible explanations for the high mortality rate of the 1918 influenza pandemic. Some analyses have shown the virus to be particularly deadly because it triggers a cytokine storm (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cytokine_storm), which ravages the stronger immune system (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immune_system) of young adults.[15] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spanish_flu#cite_note-FOOTNOTEBarry2004b-15) In contrast, a 2007 analysis of medical journals from the period of the pandemic[16] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spanish_flu#cite_note-16)[17] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spanish_flu#cite_note-17) found that the viral infection (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Viral_infection) was no more aggressive than previous influenza (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Influenza) strains. Instead, malnourishment (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malnourishment), overcrowded medical camps and hospitals, and poor hygiene (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hygiene) promoted bacterial superinfection (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Superinfection). This superinfection killed most of the victims, typically after a somewhat prolonged death bed.[18] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spanish_flu#cite_note-18)[19] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spanish_flu#cite_note-19)
. . .
Historical and epidemiological (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Epidemiology) data are inadequate to identify with certainty the pandemic's geographic origin.[2] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spanish_flu#cite_note-FOOTNOTETaubenbergerMorens2006-2) Different hypotheses have been made about it, with the three main ones being Kansas in the United States, a British army base in France, and northern China [20]
 (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spanish_flu#cite_note-20)

Historian Alfred W. Crosby (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alfred_W._Crosby) stated that the flu originated in Kansas (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kansas),[21] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spanish_flu#cite_note-FOOTNOTECrosby2003-21) and popular author John Barry (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_M._Barry) described Haskell County, Kansas (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haskell_County,_Kansas), as the point of origin.[15] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spanish_flu#cite_note-FOOTNOTEBarry2004b-15) It has also been stated that, by late 1917, there had already been a first wave of the epidemic in at least 14 US military camps.[22] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spanish_flu#cite_note-22)
As you can see from the graph below, October 1918 was indeed a very bad month.

(https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Wendy_Mcguinness/publication/337228461/figure/fig3/AS:824900470177792@1573683006031/Spanish-Flu-mortality-from-the-1918-and-1919-influenza-pandemic-Source-National-Museum.png)
Title: Re: Teams from the 1930s
Post by: FearlessF on March 16, 2020, 11:50:08 AM
Huskers had a game with Camp Funston scheduled that season..........

OCT. 10: CAMP FUNSTON GAME CANCELED

In the Huskers’ first flu-related game cancellation, the Oct. 12 contest with the Camp Funston team from Fort Riley, Kan., is called off two days before it was to happen. The citywide death toll is now approaching 30. Athletic director Scott says he still hopes to have six home games when all is said and done. (Oddly enough, Camp Funston is where the “Spanish” flu is believed to have originated in early 1918.)
Title: Re: Teams from the 1930s
Post by: Cincydawg on March 16, 2020, 02:08:52 PM
I have visited four American cemeteries in France, three with WW One burials, and quite a few markers list 1919 as year of death.
Title: Re: Teams from the 1930s
Post by: Cincydawg on March 16, 2020, 03:05:11 PM
10-0 Southern CalHelms (https://tiptop25.com/helms.html), National Championship Foundation (https://tiptop25.com/ncfoundation.html), CFB Researchers (https://tiptop25.com/cfbresearchers.html)Parke Davis (https://tiptop25.com/parkedavis.html) (tie)
8-0 Michigan: Parke Davis (https://tiptop25.com/parkedavis.html) (tie)
9-0 Colgate: Parke Davis (https://tiptop25.com/parkedavis.html) (tie)

Parke Davis' 3-way tie is shocking, not because he selected Michigan and Colgate, but because he also selected Southern Cal, the only time he ever deigned to select a West Coast team as national champion. But Parke Davis' picks aren't bad this time out, so I will be summarizing all 3 of these teams and measuring each to see if an imaginary crown fits. If there had been an AP poll in 1932, Michigan would have had an outside shot (let's say 10%) of being #1 at the end of the regular season, but Southern Cal would have easily been #1 in a post-bowl poll.

This year's major teams that came to close to perfect
 seasons (all ratings in this article, except as noted, come from my hypothetical 1932 AP poll top 25 (https://tiptop25.com/top25_1932.html)):


Southern Cal 1932 Nicknamed the The Thundering Herd


Utah (6-1-1)35-0(#40-50)
Washington State (7-1-1)20-0#21
Oregon State (4-6)10-0
Loyola-Marymount (4-4)6-0
at Stanford (6-4-1)13-0(#31-39)
California (7-3-2)27-7(#26-30)
Oregon (6-3-1)33-0(#31-39)
at Washington (6-2-2)9-6(#26-30)
Notre Dame (7-2)13-0#7
Rose Bowl
Pittsburgh (8-1-2)

35-0

#6

There was only one significant new player this season, and the offense rested heavily on him: Hall of Fame quarterback Irvine "Cotton" Warburton (pictured). He led the team in rushing and scoring in 1932 and 1933, and was a consensus AA in 1933. He wasn't actually a starter this season, but that's because he was small, 5' 7" and 145 #, and Howard Jones wanted to keep him from getting too beat up. So Cotton Warburton was handled like Notre Dame's backs, usually coming in for the 2nd quarter. He became a film and television editor, eventually winning an Academy Award for Mary Poppins.


Title: Re: Teams from the 1930s
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on March 16, 2020, 03:08:28 PM
I'm always amazed at how many babies are buried at really old cemetaries.  There are a few in GA from Revolutionary War times and wow, these people lost a lot of young ones and kept having more.
Title: Re: Teams from the 1930s
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on March 16, 2020, 03:09:39 PM
Back then, teams often had 4-5 players with (relatively) many pass attempts.  Qb, RB, FB weren't necessarily different positions yet. 

Title: Re: Teams from the 1930s
Post by: Cincydawg on March 16, 2020, 03:14:10 PM
Here are the significant games for Michigan and Princeton in 1933. The opponent rankings come from my 1933 top 25 (https://tiptop25.com/top25_1933.html), which is based on a hypothetical post-bowl AP poll (within logical reason of course).



[th]Michigan 7-0-1[/th]
[th]Princeton 9-0[/th]
Ohio State (7-1)13-0#11
at Illinois (5-3)7-6(#26-30)
Iowa (5-3)10-6#9
Minnesota (4-0-4)0-0#7
Columbia (8-1)20-0#5
Washington & Lee (4-4-2)6-0(Unranked)
Dartmouth (4-4-1)7-0(Unranked)
Navy (5-4)13-0(#33-50)



Title: Re: Teams from the 1930s
Post by: Cincydawg on March 16, 2020, 03:15:27 PM
The next highest rated teams would have been 10-1-1 Southern Cal and 4-0-4 Minnesota, both of whom were erratic and therefore difficult to rate, especially Minnesota.

Southern Cal was the 2-time defending national champion, but their 25 game winning streak came to an end with a 0-0 tie against 6-2-2 Oregon State in Portland. Two weeks later they lost the PCC title to 8-2-1 Stanford 13-7 at home. But USC played an impressive schedule, beating 5-3-1 Washington State 33-0, 6-3-1 St. Mary's (California) 14-7, 6-3-2 California 6-3, 9-1 Oregon (co-champion of the PCC with Stanford) 26-0, 8-2 Georgia 31-0, and 5-4 Washington 13-7. PCC champions Oregon and Stanford were not nearly so impressive. 9-1 Oregon's schedule was much easier than was USC's, and Stanford was tied by 1-5-2 Northwestern and beaten by 5-4 Washington.

Minnesota's 4-0-4 record was not as strong as USC's 10-1-1, but actually Minnesota had a better relevant record (https://tiptop25.com/howtorate_record.html) than USC did, thanks to a tie with #1 Michigan and a victory over #3 Pittsburgh. But Minnesota was tied by a pair of 1-5-2 teams, Indiana and Northwestern, which is pretty ugly, and they were also tied by 6-1-1 Purdue, so those results, plus USC's tough schedule, give reason to rate USC higher. An AP poll almost certainly would have done so, and therefore we'll bring USC in at #6 and Minnesota at #7.

At their best, Minnesota was an MNC caliber team, as their tie with #1 Michigan and victory over #3 Pittsburgh show. They also beat 5-3 Iowa 19-7, and Iowa will make the top 10 (as discussed below). But their worst efforts were awful. On top of tying a pair of 1-5-2 teams, they barely edged 2-5-1 Wisconsin 6-3 in their finale. But great things lay ahead for Minnesota: they would go on to win an MNC in each of the next 3 seasons for a rare "threepeat."
Title: Re: Teams from the 1930s
Post by: Cincydawg on March 16, 2020, 03:33:58 PM
How to block place kicks:

(https://i.imgur.com/4U8sc4V.png)

Title: Re: Teams from the 1930s
Post by: Cincydawg on March 16, 2020, 03:34:24 PM
https://tiptop25.com/top25s_1901_1935.html (https://tiptop25.com/top25s_1901_1935.html)

1935 Fixed UPI Poll (https://tiptop25.com/top25_1935.html)


1) Minnesota 8-0--
2) Stanford 8-1+4
3) Southern Methodist 12-1-1
4) Princeton 9-0-1
5) Texas Christian 12-1-1
6) California 9-1+3
7) UCLA 8-2+12
8) Ohio State 7-1-3
9) Notre Dame 7-1-1-1
10) Louisiana State 9-2-3
11) Pittsburgh 7-1-2-1
12) St. Mary's (California) 5-2-2+11
13) Fordham 6-1-2-2
14) Auburn 8-2+1
15) Duke 8-2-2
16) North Carolina 8-1-4
17) Holy Cross 9-0-1-3
18) Northwestern 4-3-1-2
19) Army 6-2-1--
20) Oregon 6-3
       Rice 8-3
IN
IN
22) Iowa 4-2-2-3
23) Washington 5-3--
24) Nebraska 6-2-1-1
25) Marquette 7-1
       Ohio 8-0
-2
-2

Title: Re: Teams from the 1930s
Post by: Cincydawg on March 16, 2020, 03:38:34 PM
We see by 1935 mostly the current major programs in that fake poll, with a few Ivies and Others included.  But it's starting to look pretty familiar.

Notre Dame is consistently in the top, USC and Michigan often are, we don't see Texas and Oklahoma and Nebraska much.
Title: Re: Teams from the 1930s
Post by: FearlessF on March 16, 2020, 04:31:49 PM
apparently the Huskers impressive run in the 20's knocking off Rockne and the four horsemen didn't carry much water in the 30's.

in 31 the 8-2 Huskers lost to Northwestern and had a bad loss to Pittsburgh

in 32 the Huskers led by Dana X. Bible were 7-1-1 with the loss by one point to Minnesooota and the tie with Pittsburgh

https://www.huskermax.com/games/1932/02minnesota32.html (https://www.huskermax.com/games/1932/02minnesota32.html)

in 33 the Huskers were 8-1 with a 26-0 win over Texas and the only loss 0-6 to Pitt again - definitely a thorn

in 34 they were merely 6-3, but loses to Minnesoota and Pitt and K-state

in 35 the same, losses to Minnesota, Pitt and a tie with K-state

in 36 beat K-state 40-0, but a 0-7 loss to Minnesota and another loss to Pitt

37, 6-1-2 with the loss 6 point loss to Pitt, beating the Gophers

HUSKERS TAKE DOWN
NATIONAL CHAMPS
IN BIFF JONES’ DEBUT


https://www.huskermax.com/game/1937-minnesota-football/ (https://www.huskermax.com/game/1937-minnesota-football/)

nice video here of Pitt

https://www.huskermax.com/game/1937-pittsburgh-football/ (https://www.huskermax.com/game/1937-pittsburgh-football/)





Title: Re: Teams from the 1930s
Post by: Cincydawg on March 16, 2020, 06:38:32 PM
https://tiptop25.com/champ1936.html (https://tiptop25.com/champ1936.html)

There was a great deal of argument in the offseason over who the "true" MNC was. I think Pittsburgh would have moved to #1 in a post-bowl AP poll, but we'll never know for sure, so when I fixed the 1936 AP poll, I just moved Pittsburgh into a tie for #1 with Minnesota. I think either team could be ranked #1, and both should be considered co-champions of 1936. I go into more detail in my article on fixing the 1936 AP poll (https://tiptop25.com/fixing1936.html), but the argument between these 2 teams can be summed up as follows:

For Pittsburgh, we have the key comparative scores listed above-- this was the main reason people at the time thought Pitt was better. They had a worse straight record, 8-1-1 to Minnesota's 7-1, but they also played a tougher schedule, and Pitt was 4-1-1 (.750) against teams ranked in the fixed AP top 25, while Minnesota was 2-1 (.667). So Pittsburgh actually had the better record when you take strength of schedule into account.

For Minnesota, there is the nature of the teams' losses. Minnesota's only loss came at #3 Northwestern, whereas Pitt lost to #14 Duquesne at home and they tied #15 Fordham on the road. Those are some ugly results for an MNC hopeful, and I think they give just enough reason for someone to rank Minnesota #1 (though I would go with Pitt myself).

The Other 5 MNC Candidates in 1936
Though Minnesota and Pittsburgh get all the MNC attention for 1936, and though they were indeed the most worthy, there were a total of 7 candidates worth looking at for this season. Rather than write up a full-blown summary of each, I'll briefly cover the other 5 candidates here, in order of where they finished ranked in the 1936 fixed AP poll (https://tiptop25.com/fixing1936.html) (all rankings in this article come from that top 25 list except as noted otherwise).

#3 Northwestern 7-1
Iowa (3-4-1)18-7
North Dakota State (4-5)40-7
Ohio State (5-3)14-13#20
at Illinois (4-3-1)13-2
Minnesota (7-1)6-0#1
Wisconsin (2-6)26-18
at Michigan (1-7)9-0
at Notre Dame (6-2-1)6-26#7



Title: Re: Teams from the 1930s
Post by: Cincydawg on March 16, 2020, 06:45:16 PM
https://tiptop25.com/fixing1937.html (https://tiptop25.com/fixing1937.html)

Seasons were messy with no clear top team.
Title: Re: Teams from the 1930s
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on March 16, 2020, 06:51:26 PM
With all those ties back then, I wouldn't be confident in "fixing" anything.  
Title: Re: Teams from the 1930s
Post by: FearlessF on March 16, 2020, 06:52:15 PM
parity in college football ???
Title: Re: Teams from the 1930s
Post by: MrNubbz on March 16, 2020, 07:06:54 PM
How to block place kicks:

(https://i.imgur.com/4U8sc4V.png)


That is one freaking cool photo - ya wanna be there.Playing in the mud perhaps for a keg or two when it's over ride the train home overnite
Title: Re: Teams from the 1930s
Post by: Cincydawg on March 16, 2020, 07:07:23 PM
There seem to be critical games where one team seemed to outplay the other but some critical turnover or penalty led to a 6-0 loss, or the like.

This is an interesting period, to me.  Alabama was pretty good during this era.  Tennessee had some impressive teams later in the decade.
Title: Re: Teams from the 1930s
Post by: Cincydawg on March 16, 2020, 07:08:19 PM
Extra points back then were dubious affairs.  I surmise they had the 2 point conversion option?  Maybe not.
Title: Re: Teams from the 1930s
Post by: Cincydawg on March 16, 2020, 07:10:28 PM
https://tiptop25.com/champ1938.html (https://tiptop25.com/champ1938.html)

(https://i.imgur.com/2zTXBnX.png)


Pictured above is one of many big gains by 11-0 Tennessee in their 17-0 Orange Bowl victory over 10-1 Oklahoma. By any measurable criteria, Tennessee was the best team of 1938, but they wound up #2 in the AP poll. 11-0 Texas Christian, led by national sensation and Heisman Trophy recipient Davey O'Brien
, was #1.

Here's how organizations listed in the NCAA Records Book, all except the AP poll selecting retroactively, see the 1938 mythical national championship (omitting math/computer ratings (https://tiptop25.com/mathratings.html), which are not generally accepted as MNCs):

Texas ChristianAP Poll (https://tiptop25.com/ap.html) (https://tiptop25.com/cfbresearchers.html), National Championship Foundation (https://tiptop25.com/ncfoundation.html), Helms (https://tiptop25.com/helms.html)
Tennessee: CFB Researchers (https://tiptop25.com/cfbresearchers.html)

When I fixed the 1938 AP poll (https://tiptop25.com/fixing1938.html), I moved Tennessee into a tie with Texas Christian for #1. Details are in the linked article, but basically Tennessee played a tougher schedule and performed better against it. Tennessee's opponents were 62-42-3, and Tennessee outscored them 293-16. TCU's opponents were 46-55-4, and they outscored them 269-60. Even using rankings from the original AP poll, Tennessee won 13-0 at #13 Alabama in the regular season, then beat #4 Oklahoma 17-0 in the Orange Bowl, while TCU played no ranked opponent until they beat #6 Carnegie 15-7 in the Sugar Bowl. Using the rankings of the fixed poll, Tennessee defeated #3, #9, and #21, while TCU still just beat #6.

Title: Re: Teams from the 1930s
Post by: Cincydawg on March 16, 2020, 07:12:04 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/v37sOEm.png)
Title: Re: Teams from the 1930s
Post by: Cincydawg on March 16, 2020, 07:15:27 PM
This was the year the Orange Bowl, held in a stadium that had only been dedicated a year prior, became a major event. 10-0 Oklahoma, champion of the Big 6 and ranked #4 in the AP poll, reportedly fielded more lucrative offers from the Rose, Sugar, and Cotton bowls, but Orange Bowl committee member Earnie Seiler went all out to woo the Sooners to Miami. He went to Norman and covered the campus with posters of beaches and pretty girls, then gave a speech to the players, after which they voted to go to Miami. Seiler then asked Oklahoma coach Tom Stidham to call close friend Bob Neyland to set up a game between the two, and thusly the Orange Bowl found itself with #2 Tennessee facing #4 Oklahoma, the best matchup of the bowl season.

Oklahoma's schedule was as weak as TCU's schedule was, and they hadn't played any top 25 opponents, but their defense was stellar, as they only gave up 12 points all season. Tennessee had only given up 16, albeit against a far tougher schedule, so this was looking like a defensive battle. Tennessee's chief concern was that Oklahoma outweighed them by quite a bit, and the Sooners played a rough, "dirty" style typical of their conference at that time. Outside observers wondered if Tennessee could stand up to 4 quarters of punishment. But stand up they did, and in fact they gave out better than they got.

The teams tussled quite a bit, combining for 25 penalties and 220 yards, and one player from each team was ejected for slugging. Surprisingly, Tennessee ended up being the worst transgressor, 16 penalties for 130 yards. The actual game was all Tennessee, as they outgained the Sooners 260 yards to 94 and tallied 15 first downs to 6, and they shut Oklahoma out 17-0.

In the opening quarter, an Oklahoma penalty and a strong George Cafego punt return gave Tennessee the ball at the Sooner 27. They drove for a touchdown from there, Bowden Wyatt hitting the extra point for a 7-0 lead. An Oklahoma fumble in the 2nd quarter gave the Volunteers the ball at the Sooner 27 again, and from there they drove to a Wyatt field goal and 10-0 halftime lead. In the final period Tennessee quickly moved 73 yards for another touchdown against a worn-down Oklahoma defense, finishing the scoring. George Cafego rushed for 114 yards and had 260 in total offense.
Title: Re: Teams from the 1930s
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on March 16, 2020, 07:17:27 PM
There seem to be critical games where one team seemed to outplay the other but some critical turnover or penalty led to a 6-0 loss, or the like.

This is an interesting period, to me. 
Interesting to study, yes.  Interesting to watch?  No thanks.
Title: Re: Teams from the 1930s
Post by: Cincydawg on March 16, 2020, 07:23:10 PM
https://tiptop25.com/champ1939.html (https://tiptop25.com/champ1939.html)

The star of this team was huge Hall of Fame fullback John Kimbrough (pictured running with the ball below), a consensus All American in 1939 and 1940. He also finished 2nd in the Heisman voting in 1940. He rushed for 475 yards and 10 touchdowns this season.

Tackle Joe Boyd was a nonconsensus AA, and guard Marshall Robnett would be named a consensus AA in 1940. Halfback Derace Moser would be named a nonconsensus AA in 1941, as well as the SWC MVP.

Texas A&M led the nation in points allowed during the regular season, 18, and in yards allowed per game, 76.3, and this team still holds the NCAA record for yards allowed per play, 1.7. Needless to say, that record won't be broken.

 
(https://tiptop25.com/1939texas_am_kimbrough.png)


The Sugar Bowl
(https://tiptop25.com/1939texas_am_sugar.png)


Had Tulane won this game, they would be my choice for 1939 national champion. They came into the game 8-0-1 and ranked #5 in the AP poll, their tie coming against 8-1-1 North Carolina. They had beaten 9-1 Clemson 7-6, 5-5-1 Auburn 12-0, 6-2 Fordham 7-0, 7-2 Mississippi 18-6, and 5-3-1 Alabama 13-0.

Though Texas A&M was the favorite, this game was made more difficult by the fact that it was played on Tulane's home field, which had just been greatly expanded. The previous year's Sugar Bowl attracted 44,000, but this year 73,000 fans attended. Tulane Stadium was now the largest stadium in the South.

Title: Re: Teams from the 1930s
Post by: Cincydawg on March 17, 2020, 07:26:36 AM
Kimbrough, described above as "huge", was 6'2" and 210 pounds, and played RB/QB.  As noted above, the QB position back then was different, or really almost the same as being a RB, who would pass almost as often in some offenses.  Specialization had yet to happen, with few exceptions.  Everyone was a Tebow in effect.

Some things I noticed about this era, ties of course were common, as was low scoring.  Place kicking was hit and miss even with the PAT.  The two point conversion rule was only added in 1958, otherwise it would have been almost a standard move in the 1930s.  No face masks, which I infer led to some nose issues while likely making tackling less dangerous.  The OLs were about the same size as the larger RBs.  The Ivies were still playing competitively along with some schools with odd names.  Some more recent "powers" like FSU and Clemson of course were nowhere to be seen.  Notre Dame was a dominant program along with USC and Alabama, not so much Texas.  We see pretty often Ohio State, Wisconsin, Minnesota of course, and the Big Ten in general.  Bowl games were played in stadia that looked like bowls, and there were few of them, a few more made a go of it and disappeared, like the Oil Bowl.

Oddly enough, UGA was one of the early teams that adopted a lot of passing (relative to the time) with several QBs who played well in the pros, but this really started more in 1940.  Johnny Rauch was the first QB to play in four bowl games as QB.
Title: Re: Teams from the 1930s
Post by: CWSooner on March 17, 2020, 04:27:50 PM
This was the year the Orange Bowl, held in a stadium that had only been dedicated a year prior, became a major event. 10-0 Oklahoma, champion of the Big 6 and ranked #4 in the AP poll, reportedly fielded more lucrative offers from the Rose, Sugar, and Cotton bowls, but Orange Bowl committee member Earnie Seiler went all out to woo the Sooners to Miami. He went to Norman and covered the campus with posters of beaches and pretty girls, then gave a speech to the players, after which they voted to go to Miami. Seiler then asked Oklahoma coach Tom Stidham to call close friend Bob Neyland to set up a game between the two, and thusly the Orange Bowl found itself with #2 Tennessee facing #4 Oklahoma, the best matchup of the bowl season.

Oklahoma's schedule was as weak as TCU's schedule was, and they hadn't played any top 25 opponents, but their defense was stellar, as they only gave up 12 points all season. Tennessee had only given up 16, albeit against a far tougher schedule, so this was looking like a defensive battle. Tennessee's chief concern was that Oklahoma outweighed them by quite a bit, and the Sooners played a rough, "dirty" style typical of their conference at that time. Outside observers wondered if Tennessee could stand up to 4 quarters of punishment. But stand up they did, and in fact they gave out better than they got.

The teams tussled quite a bit, combining for 25 penalties and 220 yards, and one player from each team was ejected for slugging. Surprisingly, Tennessee ended up being the worst transgressor, 16 penalties for 130 yards. The actual game was all Tennessee, as they outgained the Sooners 260 yards to 94 and tallied 15 first downs to 6, and they shut Oklahoma out 17-0.

In the opening quarter, an Oklahoma penalty and a strong George Cafego punt return gave Tennessee the ball at the Sooner 27. They drove for a touchdown from there, Bowden Wyatt hitting the extra point for a 7-0 lead. An Oklahoma fumble in the 2nd quarter gave the Volunteers the ball at the Sooner 27 again, and from there they drove to a Wyatt field goal and 10-0 halftime lead. In the final period Tennessee quickly moved 73 yards for another touchdown against a worn-down Oklahoma defense, finishing the scoring. George Cafego rushed for 114 yards and had 260 in total offense.
Re the 1938 Sooners, per the Font of All Wisdom and Knowledge:
Quote
Waddy Young
Walter Roland Young
(September 14, 1916 – January 9, 1945) was a professional football (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_football) player who later served in World War II (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_War_II).

Football and war[edit (https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Waddy_Young&action=edit&section=1)]
Young was the first consensus All-American (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/All-American) football player out of the University of Oklahoma (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/University_of_Oklahoma). He led the team to its first Big Six Conference (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_Eight_Conference) championship as well as its first bowl berth ever, the 1939 Orange Bowl (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1939_Orange_Bowl). He also starred as a heavyweight wrestler for the Sooners. After college, he played professionally for the Brooklyn Dodgers (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brooklyn_Dodgers_(NFL)) of the National Football League (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Football_League), where he played in the league's first televised game. He voluntarily gave up his NFL career to become a member of the elite flying club who piloted America’s B-24 Liberator (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/B-24_Liberator) bombers over the European Theatre (https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Atlantic_Ocean_Theatre_of_World_War_II&action=edit&redlink=1), flying 9,000 hours against mighty German (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nazi_Germany) Luftwaffe (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luftwaffe). Afterwards he volunteered to go back into combat in the Pacific Theatre (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pacific_War) against the Empire of Japan (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Empire_of_Japan), where he flew a B-29 Super Fortresses (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/B-29_Super_Fortress). He was killed on January 9, 1945, in a plane crash (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plane_crash) during a B-29 raid over Tokyo (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tokyo) as he attempted to assist a comrade whose plane had one engine on fire. The planes collided, and all crew on board were killed.
Young was inducted posthumously into the College Football Hall of Fame (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/College_Football_Hall_of_Fame) in 1986 and named the recipient of the Robert Kalsu Freedom Award, presented by the Oklahoma Sports Hall of Fame, in 2007. The University of Oklahoma Air Force Reserve Officer Training Corps (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Air_Force_Reserve_Officer_Training_Corps) Arnold Air Society (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arnold_Air_Society) squadron and Silver Wings (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Silver_Wings_(service_organization)) chapter is named in honor of Waddy Young.
Personal life[edit (https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Waddy_Young&action=edit&section=2)]
While living in New York City (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_York,_New_York) and playing professional football prior to America’s entry into World War II, he met Maggie Moody, a well-known blonde model who attended Oklahoma A&M (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oklahoma_State_University–Stillwater), and the two fell in love. During halftime of a Brooklyn-New York Giants (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_York_Giants) game in which he was playing, Young had the public address announcer voice his proposal to Maggie, who was sitting in the stands, and the two were later married.
His B-29 was "Waddy's Wagon."

[img width=500 height=395.994]https://i.pinimg.com/originals/89/3a/52/893a52cef9ee5d339529f3ccef5ed21b.jpg[/img]
Title: Re: Teams from the 1930s
Post by: CWSooner on March 17, 2020, 04:31:44 PM
Kimbrough, described above as "huge", was 6'2" and 210 pounds, and played RB/QB.  As noted above, the QB position back then was different, or really almost the same as being a RB, who would pass almost as often in some offenses.  Specialization had yet to happen, with few exceptions.  Everyone was a Tebow in effect.

Some things I noticed about this era, ties of course were common, as was low scoring.  Place kicking was hit and miss even with the PAT.  The two point conversion rule was only added in 1958, otherwise it would have been almost a standard move in the 1930s.  No face masks, which I infer led to some nose issues while likely making tackling less dangerous.  The OLs were about the same size as the larger RBs.  The Ivies were still playing competitively along with some schools with odd names.  Some more recent "powers" like FSU and Clemson of course were nowhere to be seen.  Notre Dame was a dominant program along with USC and Alabama, not so much Texas.  We see pretty often Ohio State, Wisconsin, Minnesota of course, and the Big Ten in general.  Bowl games were played in stadia that looked like bowls, and there were few of them, a few more made a go of it and disappeared, like the Oil Bowl.

Oddly enough, UGA was one of the early teams that adopted a lot of passing (relative to the time) with several QBs who played well in the pros, but this really started more in 1940.  Johnny Rauch was the first QB to play in four bowl games as QB.
In pre-face-mask days, players were taught to cross their arms when trying to block a punt.
Title: Re: Teams from the 1930s
Post by: FearlessF on March 18, 2020, 08:02:35 PM
BILLINGS, Mont. (AP) — Wildlife advocates on Wednesday asked a U.S. judge to force the government into deciding if the snow-loving wolverine should be federally protected as the rare predator becomes vulnerable to a warming planet.

The request comes in a lawsuit filed in Montana almost four years after U.S. District Judge Dana Christensen ordered wildlife officials to take swift action to protect the animal.

Wolverines, also known as “mountain devils." need deep snows to den. Scientists warn such habitat could shrink as the Earth heats up.

Once found throughout the Rocky Mountains and in California’s Sierra Nevada mountains, wolverines were wiped out across most of the U.S. by the 1930s following unregulated trapping and poisoning campaigns.

An estimated 250 to 300 wolverines survive in remote areas of Montana, Wyoming, Idaho, Oregon and Washington state, according to wildlife officials. Populations also are in Canada and Alaska.

Wednesday's lawsuit was filed by attorneys for the Center for Biological Diversity, Defenders of Wildlife and more than a half dozen other groups. The case was assigned to Christensen.

In the judge's April 2016 order, he chastised government officials for rejecting the views of many of its own scientists when it decided not to protect wolverines in 2014. The judge declared in his order that “the time is now” to protect a species “squarely in the path of climate change."


But in a Feb. 28 letter to an attorney for the plaintiffs in the lawsuit, a senior U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service official said “the court did not set a time frame” for a decision.

A final determination on whether the wolverine should be protected is expected by late summer 2020, U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service Deputy Assistant Director Gina Shultz said in the letter to Earthjustice attorney Amanda Galvan.
Title: Re: Teams from the 1930s
Post by: Cincydawg on March 19, 2020, 06:34:01 AM
Obviously, our "top ten" list of CFB programs would look quite different in 1939 than it does now.  Some teams would make both, like USC and ND.

I don't know if Vandy would make it.

(By programs, I mean their all time proficiency.)
Title: Re: Teams from the 1930s
Post by: FearlessF on March 19, 2020, 10:27:13 AM
here's your top 20 by winning percentage to 1939 according to Stassen



1 Yale 0.83194 
2 Princeton 0.81105
3 Notre Dame 0.80000
4 Harvard 0.77665
5 Michigan 0.76380
6 Minnesota 0.73897
7 Southern Cal 0.73478
8 California 0.73067
9 Nebraska 0.73002 
10 Army 0.72673 290

11 Vanderbilt 0.72406 
12 Alabama 0.72237
13 Pennsylvania 0.71483
14 Pittsburgh 0.70698
15 Texas 0.70324 272
16 Dartmouth 0.70021
17 Washington 0.69405 
18 Stanford 0.69375
19 Arizona 0.68288
20 Texas A&M


http://football.stassen.com/cgi-bin/records/calc-wp.pl?start=1869&end=1939&rpct=30&min=5&se=on&by=Win+Pct (http://football.stassen.com/cgi-bin/records/calc-wp.pl?start=1869&end=1939&rpct=30&min=5&se=on&by=Win+Pct)
Title: Re: Teams from the 1930s
Post by: FearlessF on March 19, 2020, 10:27:57 AM
No teams from the 1920's thread?
Title: Re: Teams from the 1930s
Post by: FearlessF on March 19, 2020, 11:01:59 AM
this is why I ask.........

Throwback Thursday: Go all the way back to Thanksgiving Day of 1922, when the Huskers played the final game at Nebraska Field and upset the Fighting Irish.

https://www.huskermax.com/huskers-brawn-beats-notre-dames-finesse-nebraska-football-1922/ (https://www.huskermax.com/huskers-brawn-beats-notre-dames-finesse-nebraska-football-1922/)

As the fourth quarter began, it was gut-check time at Nebraska Field.

Nebraska had run roughshod over Notre Dame during the first 30 minutes of play, but that was a distant memory. The 1922 Cornhuskers were now hanging on for dear life.

The Fighting Irish and their budding “Four Horsemen” had unleashed a dizzying passing game after intermission. Nebraska’s offense, so powerful in the first half, had managed a measly three yards the entire third quarter. The resurgent visitors had trimmed the Huskers’ lead to 14-6 and were knocking on the door again with a first down at the Nebraska 10.

Three times the Irish smashed into the Nebraska line. Each thrust moved the ball closer to paydirt, and now it was fourth-and-goal at the 3. The Huskers needed one more stop.

Harry Stuhldreher took the snap from center and dropped back to pass. From his left end position, Nebraska’s Andy Schoeppel stormed through, and the native Kansan known as “Shep” tossed the Notre Dame quarterback for a 10-yard loss.

The overflow Thanksgiving Day crowd at Nebraska Field rejoiced. That would be the Irish’s last, best chance, and the Huskers went on to salt away a 14-6 victory over a nationally prominent rival they hadn’t beaten in their last four tries.

The goal-line stand clearly energized the Cornhuskers. Inside your own 15 is no place to be in the final period of a tight game, and Nebraska used punishing run after punishing run to move the ball safely into Irish territory.

That was more like the Huskers of old. The first-half Huskers.
Title: Re: Teams from the 1930s
Post by: CWSooner on March 19, 2020, 05:42:19 PM
They ran roughshod over the Irish in the 1st half, racking up a seemingly insurmountable 14-0 lead.  ;)
Title: Re: Teams from the 1930s
Post by: FearlessF on March 22, 2020, 11:48:49 AM
1910: With spring practices about to begin, rule changes (http://chroniclingamerica.loc.gov/lccn/sn99021999/1910-03-29/ed-1/seq-4/print/image_681x648_from_1411%2C351_to_3042%2C1904/) add to the learning curve. Games will be divided into quarters for the first time, and freer substituting will be allowed.[color=rgba(0, 0, 0, 0.87)] ([/color]Full story here (http://chroniclingamerica.loc.gov/lccn/sn99021999/1910-03-29/ed-1/seq-4/)[color=rgba(0, 0, 0, 0.87)].)[/color]

ugly, but I wanted the links to work