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The Power Five => Big XII => Topic started by: CWSooner on December 13, 2019, 09:36:07 PM
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Big 12 teams are in 5 of the top 10 bowls. Sweet!
Ranking the 2019 college football bowl games, 39-1: Fiesta Bowl rematch, intriguing Sun Bowl
Not all bowl games are created equal, and we prove that by ranking every one on this year's slate
by Tom Fornelli
@TomFornelli
Dec 12, 2019 at 5:38 pm ET • 15 min read
There's nothing quite like bowl season. If you're a college football die-hard, it's the best time of the year. There's a college football game on nearly every day for three weeks in December. It's wonderful.
Of course, bowl season is a part of college football, and in college football, we rank things: teams, uniforms, rivalries, alternate uniforms, which media outlets hate our teams the most, everything. So we must rank bowl games.
Thankfully, I have done just that. I've dug into each of the 39 scheduled matchups and definitively determined which are the best and which are the ... least best. It's important to remember that they're all the best because they are bowl games. How do I determine these rankings? Through an extremely complicated process that can be summarized in only three bullet points.
- Strength of the teams: Generally speaking, games with good teams will more often lead to better games.
- Matchup quality: A team can be good and rated highly in my system, but if it's going against a team that it's going to be favored by at least two touchdowns over it, odds are the game won't be that entertaining.
- Styles of play: Styles make fights, and every team has its style. Some may make for intriguing matchups, while others could lead to a dull, boring game.
Then there are other factors like potential storylines, as well as the possibility of teams playing under interim coaches and things of that nature. In the end, I'm just trying to figure out which games are the most likely to entertain you. . . .
39. Potato Bowl -- Ohio vs. Nevada -- Jan. 3, 3:30 p.m.: The Potato Bowl was ranked No. 39 in my pre-bowl rankings last year, and it's right back there this season. Don't get me wrong, I'm going to watch it (it's the only game that day, after all), but I can't pretend a matchup between Ohio and Nevada is something to get psyched about.
38. Cure Bowl -- Liberty vs. Georgia Southern -- Dec. 21, 2:30 p.m.: It's an interesting clash of styles, and it should be a close game, but these aren't great teams. So it's hard to rank it highly to start, but there is some darkhorse potential here.
37. Camellia Bowl -- FIU vs. Arkansas State -- Dec. 21, 5:30 p.m.: This is an old Sun Belt matchup that's not all that dissimilar to the Cure Bowl. No, they aren't great teams, but it should be close, so it could be exciting.
36. Frisco Bowl -- Utah State vs. Kent State -- Dec. 20, 7:30 p.m.: I'm psyched for Kent State that it's back in a bowl game, but I can't get overly excited about this game. Now, I want to make it clear that, just because I'm not enthusiastic about a game doesn't mean I won't watch it. I will watch every single one of these games. They are like my children, but like your children, you have higher hopes for some of them than others.
35. Quick Lane Bowl -- Pitt vs. Eastern Michigan -- Dec. 26, 8 p.m.: I am looking forward to the crowd shots in this game. There are going to be a whole lot of empty seats and enthusiastic fans because if you're driving to Detroit to watch Pitt and Eastern Michigan, you're going to be excited, damn it.
34. Arizona Bowl -- Wyoming vs. Georgia State -- Dec. 31, 4:30 p.m.: Wyoming is one of my personal favorites, and I love Georgia State's Dan Ellington, but I worry this game won't be all that close. And if it is tight, it'll likely be boring.
33. Redbox Bowl -- Illinois vs. Cal -- Dec. 30, 4 p.m.: Did I want to rank this bowl a lot higher because Illinois is in it? Yes, I did. In the end, I guess I just had too much journalistic integrity to sully something as important as bowl rankings with my personal feelings. Still, I do like this game, but the over/under will likely be in the high-30s. That doesn't appeal to a mass audience.
32. Armed Forces Bowl -- Southern Miss vs. Tulane -- Jan. 4, 11:30 a.m.: There's a good chance that, if you tune into this game, it will be your first time watching both teams. I like the matchup thanks in large part to the proximity of these schools. It's not the sexiest matchup on paper, so I can't rank it much higher than this, but it could get weird.
31. Music City Bowl -- Mississippi State vs. Louisville -- Dec. 30, 4 p.m.: This game will either go to triple-overtime or be a total blowout. There is no in-between. What I do know is that it will almost certainly not include a player miming a dog urinating to cost his team a possible win. So I have to pe(e)nalize it a bit for that.
30. Bahamas Bowl -- Buffalo vs. Charlotte -- Dec. 20, 2 p.m.: Listen, the Bahamas Bowl is always worth your time, and while you haven't watched a lot of Buffalo and Charlotte, there's no better time to acquaint yourself than during this game.
29. Pinstripe Bowl -- Michigan State vs. Wake Forest -- Dec. 27, 3:20 p.m.: Let's see, either Michigan State gets its way and turns this into a slow, churning death march, or Wake takes control and wins by 25. Some bonus points were awarded for the tweets from media members complaining about the open-air press box at Yankee Stadium during the game.
28. Hawaii Bowl -- Hawaii vs. BYU -- Dec. 24, 8 p.m.: The Hawaii Bowl wasn't on Christmas Eve last season, and it ruined Christmas a little. Thankfully, it's back to the time slot it was meant to occupy this year, and it has a matchup that could prove to be great.
27. Independence Bowl -- Louisiana Tech vs. Miami (FL) -- Dec. 26, 4 p.m.: There's a more than decent chance Miami shows up and blows the Bulldogs out here, and because of that, it's hard to rank this game higher than this. That said, there's also a good chance Louisiana Tech pulls off an upset against a disinterested Miami team, and there's nothing college football fans love more than seeing once-powerful programs losing to Group of Five teams in Shreveport, Louisiana.
26. LendingTree Bowl -- Louisiana vs. Miami (OH) -- Jan. 6, 7:30 p.m.: The Ragin' Cajuns have been one of the best teams you haven't noticed, and Miami won the MAC this year. This is a matchup between two of the better Group of Five teams in the country. It has that sneaky potential.
25. First Responder Bowl -- Western Kentucky vs. Western Michigan -- Dec. 30, 12:30 p.m.: The Manifest Destiny Bowl. Two schools that have both sent head coaches to Big Ten jobs in recent years do battle in Dallas. It will likely be a close game, if not incredibly exciting.
24. New Mexico Bowl -- Central Michigan vs. San Diego State -- Dec. 21, 2 p.m.: This is a game that could be finished in fewer than three hours, and that's not something we should ignore. Sometimes you need a good, quick bowl game to help you get on with your day. As for the matchup, San Diego State has never not played in a close game, so you can count on this one being a one-score game with six minutes to play.
23. Tony the Tiger Sun Bowl -- Florida State vs. Arizona State -- Dec. 31, 2 p.m.: This is an even matchup that should be pretty fun to watch. You know Herm Edwards will have his team pumped up and ready to play, and Florida State will want to show off for new coach Mike Norvell.
22. Birmingham Bowl -- No. 21 Cincinnati vs. Boston College -- Jan. 2, 3 p.m.: I like this matchup quite a bit, and this should be a close game, but there are concerns. Boston College is already without a coach, and it's not impossible that Cincinnati's Luke Fickell could move on before this game gets played.
21. Military Bowl -- North Carolina vs. Temple -- Dec. 27, Noon: North Carolina has been a team that plays to its competition all season long, and it's going against a Temple team that can give it some problems. I'm not ranking this one any higher than this, but it could end up being one of the 10 best games of the postseason.
20. Gasparilla Bowl -- UCF vs. Marshall -- Dec. 23, 2:30 p.m.: I wish this game was still being played at Tropicana Field because there's nothing like football indoors on artificial grass that is 15 different shades of green. Nevertheless, this has a chance to be an interesting game, but it could also prove to be a UCF blowout.
19. Cheez-It Bowl -- Air Force vs. Washington State -- Dec. 27, 10:15 p.m.: Talk about your clash of styles. Air Force is an option team that passes more than most teams of its ilk, while Wazzu would prefer never to run the ball at all. And it's all happening in the Cheez-It Bowl, which was the runaway winner for our No. 1 bowl game last season. Will it defend its title?
18. Texas Bowl -- No. 25 Oklahoma State vs. Texas A&M -- Dec. 27, 6:45 p.m.: The Big 12 reunion everybody is always hoping Texas A&M would have! OK, maybe not, but these are certainly two schools that are familiar with one another. That will bring an extra level of hostility to what is supposed to be a friendly get together. We'll also find out if Texas A&M can finally beat a ranked team in 2019.
17. Gator Bowl -- Indiana vs. Tennessee -- Jan. 2, 7 p.m.: Visually, the colors might clash a bit here. Something about red, white and creamsicle won't feel right, but the game should be interesting. These are two evenly-matched teams on paper, and they're two programs that will be looking to use this game as a springboard into 2020, so there won't be any "they didn't care about this game" talk afterward.
16. Belk Bowl -- Virginia Tech vs. Kentucky -- Dec. 31, Noon: The Belk Bowl has existed since 2002, and this will be Virginia Tech's 83rd appearance in the game give or take. If you haven't watched Lynn Bowden and Kentucky this season, do yourself a favor and tune in. Bowden against the Virginia Tech defense in Bud Foster's last game, will be a lot of fun.
15. New Orleans Bowl -- No. 20 Appalachian State vs. UAB -- Dec. 21, 9 p.m.: I wish the Mountaineers could have found their way into a bigger bowl game against another Power Five program, but I'll settle for this. The Sun Belt champs will square off with a UAB team that won its division in Conference USA. I might have ranked it a little higher if not for Eli Drinkwitz's departure for Missouri.
14. Boca Raton Bowl -- SMU vs. FAU -- Dec. 21, 3:30 p.m.: If Lane Kiffin weren't leaving to take over at Ole Miss, this game would have been in my top 10. On paper, it should be high-scoring and entertaining, but how motivated will the Owls be? If FAU shows up with the same kind of effort it had in the C-USA Championship, this game could be awesome. If it doesn't, it could be one-sided.
13. Orange Bowl -- No. 9 Florida vs. No. 24 Virginia -- Dec. 30, 8 p.m.: We can always count on one New Year's Six game being a blowout, and I would say this is the most likely candidate. I liked Virginia football before it was cool to like Virginia football, but I don't know if this is a great matchup for the Cavs against a Gators team that has outscored opponents 119-23 over the last three games.
12. Holiday Bowl -- No. 16 Iowa vs. No. 22 USC -- Dec. 27, 8 p.m.: Finally, the rematch of the 2002 Orange Bowl we've been waiting 17 years to see! Seriously, this could prove to be a fun matchup between two evenly-matched teams. I have it at No. 12, but it's not far off from being a top 10 game.
11. Las Vegas Bowl -- No. 19 Boise State vs. Washington -- Dec. 21, 7:30 p.m.: I don't know if you know this, but Washington coach Chris Petersen will be stepping down after this game. Also, maybe this is news to you, but did you know that before he took the Washington job, Chris Petersen was the coach at Boise State? He was! He had some success there too! Yeah, storyline-wise, this is a top-five game. Actual game-wise, this is as high as I can put it.
10. Liberty Bowl -- No. 23 Navy vs. Kansas State -- Dec. 31, 3:45 p.m.: I'll understand if this game isn't everybody's cup of tea, but I'm all about it. What we have here is an option team in Navy going against a Kansas State team that doesn't run the option, but runs the ball almost as often as an option team. The clock is never going to stop. It's going to be physical. The players will be sore when it's done. I'm going to love every minute.
9. Alamo Bowl -- No. 11 Utah vs. Texas -- Dec. 31, 7:30 p.m.: I hope Utah comes into this game ready to play and isn't down on itself for losing the Pac-12 and likely missing out on a playoff spot. The Utes had a poor showing against Oregon, but they're a very good team, and they'll be facing a Texas team that's better than its record suggests. There's a lot of potential in this game.
8. Camping World Bowl -- No. 15 Notre Dame vs. Iowa State -- Dec. 28, Noon: Speaking of teams that are better than their records suggest, Iowa State gets a shot at a blue-blood here. Personally, I'd have preferred Notre Dame being in the Orange Bowl against Florida, but this isn't a bad consolation prize. This game will be close, and it could be a tennis match as well.
7. Outback Bowl -- No. 12 Auburn vs. No. 18 Minnesota -- Jan. 1, 1 p.m.: I don't know how this game will end, but I know what everybody will be saying about it. Either Auburn will win, and everybody will say, "I told you Minnesota wasn't any good," or Minnesota will win, and everybody will say it was because "Auburn didn't care about this game." Well, I care about this game. I want to see Minnesota's giant offensive line against Auburn's giant defensive line.
6. Cotton Bowl -- No. 10 Penn State vs. No. 17 Memphis -- Dec. 28, Noon: I was hoping that Mike Norvell would be coaching the Tigers in this one, but the new Florida State coach ultimately opted to skip on the opportunity. Still, I happen to believe that Memphis is underrated by the committee at No. 17 and that it is fully capable of knocking off Penn State. Of course, I also think Penn State is capable of beating Memphis. This one could play like a video game.
5. Citrus Bowl -- No. 13 Alabama vs. No. 14 Michigan -- Jan 1, 1 p.m.: This game was hard to rank because I have no idea how many players might sit it out. Still, when you look at the two programs involved, as well as the two coaches who lead them, how could you rank this outside the top five? It's Alabama and Michigan. They're two of the most heralded programs in college football history, and this will be only the fifth meeting between the two, first in a bowl since 2000.
4. Sugar Bowl -- No. 5 Georgia vs. No. 7 Baylor -- Jan. 1, 8:45 p.m.: I don't know what the total is for this game yet, but take the under. I have enjoyed watching both of these defenses all season long, and I'm looking forward to this matchup between conference runners-up. Hopefully, both teams will be healthier for this game than they were for their conference championships.
3. Rose Bowl -- No. 6 Oregon vs. No. 8 Wisconsin -- Jan. 1, 5 p.m.: It's the Rose Bowl. It's my favorite bowl game, and it always will be. Also, as typically happens, it's an interesting matchup between two similar teams. Two good teams playing in one of the most picturesque settings in sport. What's not to like?
2. Peach Bowl -- No. 1 LSU vs. No. 4 Oklahoma -- Dec. 28, 4 p.m.: Remember the Rose Bowl between Oklahoma and Georgia a few years ago? I can't shake the feeling that this game could prove to be a lot like that one. These are two explosive offenses and two defenses that are better than most believe. It's also another battle between Jalen Hurts and LSU, though Jalen will be wearing a different uniform this time. I know Oklahoma is considered "the other team" in the playoff this year, but I wouldn't just assume it's going to get its butt kicked here.
1. Fiesta Bowl -- No. 2 Ohio State vs. No. 3 Clemson -- Dec. 28, 8 p.m.: These are the two best teams in the country, and they have been all season long. So, with that in mind, there's simply no way I could rank any other bowl game ahead of this one. They've been the two most dominant teams all year. The last time they met in a semifinal, Clemson won 31-0. I have a feeling this year's game will be a bit more competitive.
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It's a decent summary, but it's another kind of list I dislike. "We" are flat addicted to rankings of everything.
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I scrolled by
the Huskers not included hurts my enthusiasm
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The UGA-Baylor matchup for me is pretty boring, I wouldn't have it 4th at all, in front of Bama-UM and Auburn-Minny and ND-ISU.
Meh, lists.
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I wonder if the writer views Baylor-UGA almost like the CFB world viewed Boise State-OU.
I wish the Earth would open up and swallow Baylor University, so that one is not high on my list of have-to-watch bowl games either.
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The UGA-Baylor matchup for me is pretty boring, I wouldn't have it 4th at all, in front of Bama-UM and Auburn-Minny and ND-ISU.
Meh, lists.
Boring like you assume Georgia will beat the Bears?
Oh and remember dont get your dog too close to their mascot cause bears dont like dogs either
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I think that the Texas Bowl--Oklahoma State vs. Texas A&M--is underrated at #18. That seems more interesting than the #15 New Orleans Bowl--Appy State vs. UAB.
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I think Baylor will beat UGA. I just don't think it's an interesting game, yeah, I'll watch some of course. I hope the Dawgs win, but if they don't, meh. This was "the year" and the OL did not play well at all, the WRs kept getting hurt, and Fromm was mediocre. I thought the OL would be superb, and they were OK in pass pro but that is about it.
I was thinking of it like a non-fan might think, just not really a compelling match up IMHO.
Baylor has had a fine year and the Dawgs basically struggled mightily. How they are still ranked 5 is a mystery to me.
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I think Baylor will beat UGA. I just don't think it's an interesting game, yeah, I'll watch some of course. I hope the Dawgs win, but if they don't, meh. This was "the year" and the OL did not play well at all, the WRs kept getting hurt, and Fromm was mediocre. I thought the OL would be superb, and they were OK in pass pro but that is about it.
I was thinking of it like a non-fan might think, just not really a compelling match up IMHO.
Baylor has had a fine year and the Dawgs basically struggled mightily. How they are still ranked 5 is a mystery to me.
I don't know if Georgia is over-ranked or not, but the discrepancy between 11-2 Georgia at #5 and 10-2 Bama at #13 (CFP) is interesting. OTOH, Bama doesn't really have a big win, while Georgia has 3.
Some have opined that the Committee rewarded big wins a lot more than it punished bad losses this year.
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I was pretty disappointed in this year's UGA team, not due to effort, but performance versus expectations. The signs showed up early, some struggles to move the ball at Vandy, behind at Tennessee, not manhandling Notre Dame, and of course the terrible loss. It's always good to beat UF and Auburn in the same year and win the division, but it really is more a reflection of how poor the division was this year. The defense is very good, but the offense is pretty close to horrible.
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Does the loss to Texas in last season's Sugar Bowl look any different now than it looked at the time?
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To me? No. I kept reading about how the OL would be fantastic this year, and it simply was not, even against bad teams. Maybe losing Galliard at center was a bigger deal than I thought, but they had plenty returning. With their running backs and Jake Fromm, I figured they would score with ease on anyone other than top defenses. They should be able to run effectively on any down and throw off that even to young WRs. They even have an elite place kicker.
It's a puzzle really, to me. I don't think Fromm regressed, I think he just couldn't find targets and the running game was stopped against every decent opponent. I'm surprised they beat the teams they did. Baylor is set up nicely to stop the run, again, and make Fromm beat them, with the top receivers out hurt. The only question is whether Baylor can score 17 points or so.
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UGA will probably be down five starters, two injured WRs, two OLs who are leaving early, and RB Deandre Swift. One OL has already announced.
Thomas is following the same path as former UGA cornerback Deandre Baker, who elected to skip the Allstate Sugar Bowl against Texas a year ago to protect his professional interests. Junior running back D'Andre Swift is also expected to turn forego his senior season but has yet to announce and there's a strong chance that redshirt sophomore right tackle Isaiah Wilson could do the same.
https://247sports.com/college/georgia/Article/Georgia-Football-DAndre-Swift-2020-NFL-Draft-decision-after-Sugar-Bowl-140699568/?fbclid=IwAR21O9AD7GsXWNWhCQD-j8TrTmTB32le_sCaIrdo6AuAk4ljhY1eTlMYzIY (https://247sports.com/college/georgia/Article/Georgia-Football-DAndre-Swift-2020-NFL-Draft-decision-after-Sugar-Bowl-140699568/?fbclid=IwAR21O9AD7GsXWNWhCQD-j8TrTmTB32le_sCaIrdo6AuAk4ljhY1eTlMYzIY)
Huh, Swift says he will announce AFTER the SB, so I guess he's playing. That is not what I expected at all.
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I know Oklahoma is considered "the other team" in the playoff this year, but I wouldn't just assume it's going to get its butt kicked here.
I am on record for assuming this, correct?
Horn thing or whatever you wanna call it.
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OU is the "other team" in the playoff, but that hardly means they can't win of course. They need perhaps a key turnover somewhere. Ohio State is a very balanced team with no obvious weaknesses.
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I am on record for assuming this, correct?
Horn thing or whatever you wanna call it.
Re your question, what you quoted was from my post, but the post was an online article, so those weren't my words to which you were responding.
I'm not the one who said "Horn thing." I said "'don't confuse me with evidence' thing."
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Re your question, what you quoted was from my post, but the post was an online article, so those weren't my words to which you were responding.
I'm not the one who said "Horn thing." I said "'don't confuse me with evidence' thing."
I'm not here to argue. I got real work for that. This is recreation. LSU - 21.
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ATHENS, Ga. -- Georgia will be without a third starting offensive lineman when it takes on No. 7 Baylor in the Allstate Sugar Bowl on January 1, 2020 (8:45 p.m. ET on ESPN). Fourth-year junior right guard Ben Cleveland will miss the bowl game due to academic issues per his father, Derek.
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I'm not here to argue. . . .
:57:
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ATHENS, Ga. -- Georgia will be without a third starting offensive lineman when it takes on No. 7 Baylor in the Allstate Sugar Bowl on January 1, 2020 (8:45 p.m. ET on ESPN). Fourth-year junior right guard Ben Cleveland will miss the bowl game due to academic issues per his father, Derek.
OU will be without the services of DL Ronnie Perkins, RB Rhamondre Stevenson, and WR Trajen Bridges, who are suspended for reasons not yet disclosed but thought to be related to the use of controlled substances.
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Confessions of a Football Fanatic:
I often expect too much from the team.
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that's your job
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I am thinking for us "rational fans" (if you excuse the oxymoron) a good season is one where our team did better than we expected preseason (and hopefully beat our main rivals). A poor season, well, ...
I tend to be a bit negative preseason, seeing flaws and issues, this year I was too positive dismissing the flaws and thinking our OL would be professional grade. (I still don't understand why they were not.) Returning very good QB and RB stable, check, returning defense, check, good special teams, questions at wide receiver, but meh, RTDB.
So, we beat our rivals, check, lost one game inexplicably, and got blown out in the CG, still for some reason ranked 5th, made in NY6 bowl game, yay. Upon reflection, not bad of course, but still disappointing.
Teams like Baylor and Minnesota had fantastic seasons, and Iowa did well, Utah and Oregon did well, Virginia and UNC did sort of well relatively, LSU did well I think, Michigan is probably on the other side among the majors along with Texas. OU did about as expected with some close calls. USCw saved their season a bit there. Rutger and Arkansas, holy cow.
UNC will be interesting next year I think, not that they will be 10-2 or anything.
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I am thinking for us "rational fans" (if you excuse the oxymoron) a good season is one where our team did better than we expected preseason (and hopefully beat our main rivals). A poor season, well, ...
I tend to be a bit negative preseason, seeing flaws and issues, this year I was too positive dismissing the flaws and thinking our OL would be professional grade. (I still don't understand why they were not.) Returning very good QB and RB stable, check, returning defense, check, good special teams, questions at wide receiver, but meh, RTDB.
So, we beat our rivals, check, lost one game inexplicably, and got blown out in the CG, still for some reason ranked 5th, made in NY6 bowl game, yay. Upon reflection, not bad of course, but still disappointing.
Teams like Baylor and Minnesota had fantastic seasons, and Iowa did well, Utah and Oregon did well, Virginia and UNC did sort of well relatively, LSU did well I think, Michigan is probably on the other side among the majors along with Texas. OU did about as expected with some close calls. USCw saved their season a bit there. Rutger and Arkansas, holy cow.
UNC will be interesting next year I think, not that they will be 10-2 or anything.
They might be. The ACC is just really, really bad. Like, old Big East bad.
The Tar Heels' OOC schedule is UCF, James Madison, UConn, and Auburn. And they don't play Clemson in the regular season. So assuming a loss to Auburn, plus one more loss to Miami or one of the Virginia schools maybe, and they'd still be 10-2.
Agree with you that it'll be interesting to watch, anyway.
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To be 10-2, you have to win ALL the games against equal or lesser teams. That is statistically improbable, you obviously are likely to snag an upset somewhere, and lose a game or two against a near equal opponent, the ones optimists count as wins preseason. But, you are correct, they might surprise on the upside and do like Minnesota next year.
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OU will be without the services of DL Ronnie Perkins, RB Rhamondre Stevenson, and WR Trajen Bridges, who are suspended for reasons not yet disclosed but thought to be related to the use of controlled substances.
Perkins is the leading pass rusher, Stevenson has been our 2nd-half hammer in the ground game, and Bridges is a backup WR.
It has been reported that starting strong safety Delarrin Turner-Yell broke his collarbone in practice today and is out.
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Big 12 bowl games start in 2 days.
The Texas Bowl--oSu vs. ATM--is one of them. This is another bowl that would have been more interesting with Texas as the Big 12 rep. Without regard to the fact that the Texas Bowl is 2 picks lower than the Alamo Bowl, how would Horn fans have felt about playing the Aggies in a bowl game in Houston?
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That would have been great but I read someplace that the SEC does everything possible to keep the Horns and aggie from playing against each other in football
dont really know if theres any truth to it
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You'd think that the Aggies would like the matchup, as the Horns have scoreboard.
Maybe Gigem can chime in on this.
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I’d have to say that most Aggies are split on the issue. A lot of Aggies would like to resume the annual game. Myself I’d like to see about a 20 year span before we start playing the ‘horns again. We are still relatively new in the conference and still trying to establish an identity here. I cringe when we play someone on National tv and our fans are giving the horns upside down. I kinda know why they’re doing it but still dislike it. I want A&M to be all about us more than anti-someone else.
We really haven’t had as much success relative to our resources. I envision A&M eventually joining Clemson, Auburn, and LSU in the highly successful program category. I specifically mention these programs because they are the 2nd wave of blue bloods. We certainly have similar profiles program wise, maybe even a better position than Clemson WRT recruiting.
The other part of that is that I think UT needs A&M much more than A&M needs them. Being in the SEC has put us in a position where we’re the only instate sec program. I think our recruiting has benefited even if we haven’t been able to translate that to wins. It does set us apart.
The SEC, and especially the West, is tough, tough, tough. Honestly we would be better served playing a light schedule ooc. Obviously nobody had any idea Clemson would be so tough these last few years.
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Obviously nobody had any idea Clemson would be so tough these last few years.
Clemson is in the catbird seat right now. King of a pathetic conference that offers little to no resistance, and able to build its rep off of one or two tough OOC games a year, plus CFP success. I wonder if Clemson's status will outlive Dabo Swinney's tenure as HFC.
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I think Dabo must be a capable coach. They are out recruiting Alabama, which is hard to do, and of course beating them, which also is not easy. The OSU game will be fascinating, I have had OSU as the best team out there most of the season. If Fields is healthy, they can score, and play defense. Clemson isn't going anywhere unless Dabo is.
They have had some nice runs in the past but often associated with, um, some malfeasances.
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Clemson is in the catbird seat right now. King of a pathetic conference that offers little to no resistance, and able to build its rep off of one or two tough OOC games a year, plus CFP success. I wonder if Clemson's status will outlive Dabo Swinney's tenure as HFC.
I’m sorry but this is quite laughable coming from an Big 12/OU fan. Isn’t Clemson the team that absolutely destroyed OU a few years ago in the first few cfb playoffs? If anything playing in a weak conference should manifest itself when the playoffs start.
I don’t really follow the ACC much but I wasn’t aware they were considered down.
Regardless of how easy or tough their schedule is they have still done extremely well in the cfp. Beaten Bama 2x, lost one and generally been in it every year.
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I’m sorry but this is quite laughable coming from an Big 12/OU fan. Isn’t Clemson the team that absolutely destroyed OU a few years ago in the first few cfb playoffs? If anything playing in a weak conference should manifest itself when the playoffs start.
I don’t really follow the ACC much but I wasn’t aware they were considered down.
Regardless of how easy or tough their schedule is they have still done extremely well in the cfp. Beaten Bama 2x, lost one and generally been in it every year.
I was comparing Clemson's situation to that of any program in the SEC-West, which, as you mentioned, is tough.
Clemson has a much easier route to the playoff than Bama or LSU do, and they likely will arrive there with fewer injuries to key players.
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The ACC this year is arguably historically bad, other than Clemson. The second best team probably is Virginia, who lost to Clemson 62-17. No other team won 9 games.
Two other teams managed 8 wins and two got to 7-5. I think the second best team in any other conference ie better than UVA (who faces Florida in the OB).
The Pac 12 has 3 ranked teams and two that look to be pretty good (and USC).
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The AAC is better than the ACC
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I’m sorry but this is quite laughable coming from an Big 12/OU fan. Isn’t Clemson the team that absolutely destroyed OU a few years ago in the first few cfb playoffs? If anything playing in a weak conference should manifest itself when the playoffs start.
I don’t really follow the ACC much but I wasn’t aware they were considered down.
Regardless of how easy or tough their schedule is they have still done extremely well in the cfp. Beaten Bama 2x, lost one and generally been in it every year.
I'm not surprised you wouldn't be aware. As an ag, all you hear in the echo chamber of texags and other places like that, is how bad the "BDF" is, and how good Clemson must be since you played them so tough (the first go-round, anyway).
Pretty sure it was posted upthread, but by some objective measurements calculated mathematically, the B12 is arguably the best conference this year. B12 teams have extremely high SOS. The ACC is, as CD asserted earlier, historically bad. They're a distant 5th at this point.
But Clemson is certainly still a good team and have proven it in the playoffs. That doesn't change C-dubb's point, that they have an extreme advantage over every SEC, B12, B1G, and even PAC team in their route to the playoff, which is just unbelievably easy by comparison.
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Like the Big East was back in the day - New years day bowl for Rutgers!
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The AAC is better than the ACC
They have three ranked teams, albeit 17th and lower. They have five ten win teams, albeit against generally soft competition. I think a very good P5 team would likely go 12-1 in the AAC, I'm talking a Penn State caliber team. They'd probably go 12-1 in the ACC as well if they faced Clemson (13-1 is they didn't regular season). I don't recall the ACC being THIS bad for a long long time.
Playing in the SEC West is certainly difficult especially if you happen to hit an East power OOD. The B1G East is not walk in the park unless you are Ohio State. The B12 is tough because if your team is really good you will face another really good team twice.
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The B12 is tough because of the 9 conference games, the full roundrobin that ensures you NEVER miss another conference team, AND the silly rematch CCG which ensures you play another of the two best teams in the conference twice no matter what.
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Yeah, if you take four random teams out of the SEC and play the same slate it would likely be tougher unless the four teams were Bama/LSU etc.
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Almost kickoff time. I won’t be watching the first quarter because we’re in the deer blind but I’ll probably make it back just in time for the end of the 1st half. I look for it to be a really tight game.
Gig em Aggies.
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Almost kickoff time. I won’t be watching the first quarter because we’re in the deer blind but I’ll probably make it back just in time for the end of the 1st half. I look for it to be a really tight game.
Gig em Aggies.
Youre going to shoot Bambi????
Oh the humanity
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Doe season‘s over. Looking for Bambis old man.
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Great game, tight like I expected. Hubbard had a couple of great runs but nothing special. I don’t know about the rest of you but winning the bowl game has always been high on my list. 2020 should be a promising year. The schedule really lightens up and there is a decent chance A&M could be a one loss team headed into Nov.
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Almost kickoff time. I won’t be watching the first quarter because we’re in the deer blind but I’ll probably make it back just in time for the end of the 1st half. I look for it to be a really tight game.
Gig em Aggies.
A tight game indeed. And a tale of two halves. Good win for the Ags, congrats!
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https://fbschedules.com/ncaa-2020/team/texas-am (https://fbschedules.com/ncaa-2020/team/texas-am)
The schedule appears to be @ Auburn, @ Bama, and LSU, if they can "hold serve".
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The Dawgs will be without Brian Herrien, a rather capable backup running back, which means Zamir White will move to back up if Swift is healthy enough to play. White is the RS freshman who tore both ACLs and was heralded as a recruit back in the day, seems like decades ago now. His nickname is "Zeus" so you will hear what sounds like booing when he carries.
I see UGA is favored by 6. I expect a low scoring affair and suspect Baylor should prevail, something like 24-16.
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https://fbschedules.com/ncaa-2020/team/texas-am (https://fbschedules.com/ncaa-2020/team/texas-am)
The schedule appears to be @ Auburn, @ Bama, and LSU, if they can "hold serve".
Yep, but we play Bama and LSU last. Auburn we get mid October. All our other games we should be favored in and we get Colorado OOC. I give us a 70% chance of going into Nov either undefeated or with one loss. We’ve had success at Auburn and should have won there last year.
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I don't see the Ags on the level of LSU and Alabama, but I think every other game on the schedule is definitely quite winnable.
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Agree, and they could be a better team next year as well with some games to get it started.
I thought Mizzou might be 8-0 coming into the UGA game and that didn't come close to being right.
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Now J.R. Reed is sitting out the Sugar Bowl, probably our best DB. Three OLs, one backup RB, DB, ... maybe a couple more. I'm still surprised Swift might play. He is the top RB in the draft on some boards I've seen. You'd think he would be getting ready to make money.
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LSU slaughtering OU. Is LSU really that good or was OU not really that good (#4 CFP)?
Maybe Clemson and OSU will be a great game.
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LSU (Burrow) is really really good, and OU got off to a horrible start on offense.
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Players we did not expect to see: OL Ben Cleveland, OL Andrew Thomas, OL Isaiah Wilson, RB Brian Herrien, RB Prather Hudson, DB J.R. Reed, and DB Divaad Wilson
New names: OLB Walter Grant, ILB Quay Walker, DL Tymon Mitchell, DL Bill Norton, and DB Tyrique McGhee.
If those "new names" are not with the team, I may not watch the game. This would be a disaster, and D'Andre Swift it reported to be about half speed.
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OSU looked ready to run away with this one but Clemson showed poise and got right back in it. 14-16 at the half. Looks like it may come down to the last play kinda game.
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LSU slaughtering OU. Is LSU really that good or was OU not really that good (#4 CFP)?
Maybe Clemson and OSU will be a great game.
LSU started the season well and just continued to improve all season. That's all about coaching, really impressive.
As a fan of a team that consistently seems to get worse throughout the season, it's frustrating to watch, I gotta admit.
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Big 12 teams are known to be soft, it's a fact.
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Of course you realize whats gonna happen
Clemson beats LSU and our brains are scrambled for the entire off season
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Wow. Came down to the very end. What a game by Clemson.
I have to say that listening to Dabo after the game what a classy guy. 29 in a row. SEC be damned I’m rooting for Clemson.
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Big 12 teams are known to be soft, it's a fact.
Is this CD or Fearless? I can't tell!
Of course you realize whats gonna happen
Clemson beats LSU and our brains are scrambled for the entire off season
Clemson is not much of a threat to us for recruiting or branding, while LSU is, so the best result for Texas, would be a Clemson win.
But I don't see it happening. I think LSU is gonna win pretty handily, by a couple of scores.
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I think the three of them are in a small hat and a break or two this way or that determines the winners. I would hate to be trying to tackle someone and be worrying about head positions during contact. I think Alabama with Tua is probably able to mix with these guys.
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Jalen Hurts played well, but it's obvious he not at the elite level of the other 3 QBs in the CFP
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Jalen Hurts played well, but it's obvious he not at the elite level of the other 3 QBs in the CFP
No QB would shine having to face an LSU def front with OUs off front
Hurts barely had time to blink before some LSU linesman had his hand on him
once LSU shut off the ground game it was over
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Yeah, it's not as if Fromm did anything against LSU. Their defense, iffy early, seems to have gelled at the right time. But I do agree Hurts missed some passes early.
Burrow on the other hand could throw into a tight window off balance across his body with three defenders draped all over him. I've never seen a QB play like that in college or pros.
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have you been following Patrick Mahomes the past couple seasons?
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Burreaux was otherworldly yesterday.
This LSU team is peaking at exactly the right time, both on offense and defense. I don't see Clemson being able to keep up, and if they have the same slow start that they did against Ohio State, they're going to be down 4 TDs with absolutely no chance of coming back.
I'm thinking this is a pretty big LSU win, something like 38-23.
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have you been following Patrick Mahomes the past couple seasons?
I see him a lot in State Farm commercials.
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I think LSU will win, but am far from confident. Clemson showed they are on a par with Ohio State, I think, and I've thought OSU was the most complete team out there. But, if Joe Burro plays like that again, it's over. Their running back is also very good and should be healthy by then.
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I see him a lot in State Farm commercials.
he's better than the old man he shares the commercials with
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I figured if Jake Fromm ever got to start in the NFL, State Farm should sign him up quickly.
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I see it differently. Clemson has been at the very top of the CFB world for the last 4-5 years. They’re one of the few teams that could hang with and beat Alabama with regularity. I’m pretty sure Bama was heavily favored last year and Tua was healthy and Clemson throttled them.
Yes, LSU is very, very good but Clemson is highly talented and well coached. If you recall the Bama game it looked like LSU was going to run away with it but Bama hung in there and had a chance deep in the 4th quarter. I still think LSU takes it but I’m in the 51-49 group.
Haven’t seen the line yet but I’d be surprised if it was more than LSU -6.
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LSU is a 4.5-point favorite over Clemson at FanDuel, and a 5.5-point favorite at DraftKings. The total sits at a consensus 69 across the market as of Saturday night. Entering Saturday, our power ratings made Clemson a 4-point favorite over LSU.19 hours ago
(https://www.actionnetwork.com/ncaaf/lsu-clemson-odds-spread-line-2020-national-championship-game)LSU vs. Clemson Odds: Opening Line for 2020 National ...
(https://www.actionnetwork.com/ncaaf/lsu-clemson-odds-spread-line-2020-national-championship-game)[color=var(--lc)]ccording to the Action Network (https://www.actionnetwork.com/ncaaf/college-football-national-championship-betting-odds-spread-clemson-alabama)[/url], at least one sportsbook had Alabama as a nine-point favorite to start last Saturday, when it became clear that the Crimson Tide and Tigers would be meeting for the fourth consecutive season. In Las Vegas, the early consensus had the spread at Alabama by seven.[/color]
Since then, however, [color=var(--lc)]the line narrowed (http://www.vegasinsider.com/college-football/odds/las-vegas/?s=165)[/url], going as low as -4.5 for Alabama at some books. As of Monday afternoon, however, the vast majority of spreads seem to have settled at Alabama as a 5.5-point favorite.[/font][/size][/color]
(https://www.actionnetwork.com/ncaaf/lsu-clemson-odds-spread-line-2020-national-championship-game)[/size][/font][/size][/color]
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very bold of you Cincy
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LSU is a 4.5-point favorite over Clemson at FanDuel,
Alright then I'll amend my prediction.
LSU 38.5
Clemson 34
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LSU slaughtering OU.
Oh gee, imagine that. What a shocker.
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I was shocked at the ease with which LSU scored, I think they just scored another TD.
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12 of them were represented on the Bulldogs’ two-deep, including six starters, three on offense and three on defense.
Together, those 13 players represent 149 games of combined participation this season.
UGA down 13 players for the SB, 12 of them "significant". The good news is the youngsters are talented and will be motivated, one presumes. I'm still preparing the rest of my excuses.
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It's a bummer that kids want to skip bowl games. It does serve to underscore that these games tend to matter a lot more to fans, than they do to the players. The CFP games being the exception, I suppose. At least for now...
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About 2/3rds of these players are simply hurt, the rest are sitting out to avoid injury and prepare for the combine. One OL didn't make the grade, literally.
I was surprised at Herrien, as a good game in the SB might help him get drafted, and at D'Andre Swift, who doesn't need to prove anything now, but he may be hurt.
I hear the team is not interested in facing "Baylor", whoever that is.
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About 2/3rds of these players are simply hurt, the rest are sitting out to avoid injury and prepare for the combine. One OL didn't make the grade, literally.
I was surprised at Herrien, as a good game in the SB might help him get drafted, and at D'Andre Swift, who doesn't need to prove anything now, but he may be hurt.
I hear the team is not interested in facing "Baylor", whoever that is.
Not surprising, Georgia's never interested in playing the Sugar Bowl.
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I'm rounding up my usual excuses early this year.
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LSU slaughtering OU. Is LSU really that good or was OU not really that good (#4 CFP)?
Maybe Clemson and OSU will be a great game.
LSU is that good.
Because of the limitations of Jalen Hurts and an 80%-new OL, this--at the end of the season--was the least prolific OU offense since Trevor Knight was the QB.
OU needed a bunch of things to go right to be competitive with LSU. All of those things went wrong. Inept start on offense. Bad no-call on the blatant DPI by LSU, which led to the shanked punt which set up LSU for the short drive that made it 21-7. And then things got worse!
The only thing better about that game compared to the 52-19 ass-kicking by USC in the 2004 (season) Orange Bowl was that we had better talent then, and the team quit once USC opened up a lead. This team was much less talented, but kept fighting.
Congrats to LSU. They are really good. I hope that they beat Clemson.
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A tight game indeed. And a tale of two halves. Good win for the Ags, congrats!
I thought that Mike Gundy got badly outcoached, as he often does.
OSU had the horses to win that game, but Gundy failed to use them after going up 14-0 until it was too little, too late.
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Wow. Came down to the very end. What a game by Clemson.
I have to say that listening to Dabo after the game what a classy guy. 29 in a row. SEC be damned I’m rooting for Clemson.
I'm sick to death of Dabo and his ilk thanking God for their victories. As if God favored them.
Somehow, they never think to blame God for their defeats, or wonder what they did wrong to lose God's favor.
"Faith, Family, Football" = Football.
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Congrats to the Horns on the big win over Utah. That may be the Big 12's only win in what has become a terrible bowl season.
It's going to be hard to root for Baylor--a school that in a just universe would be swallowed by a giant opening in the earth--but I guess I will.
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Not surprising, Georgia's never interested in playing the Sugar Bowl.
Texas seems highly motivated to play in bowl games. I guess Utah wasn't. Or something.
I've noted before, your bowl opponent generally will be one of the 2-3-4 best teams you've played all year. Teams that are very good, say 10-2ish, will generally have had 8 easy wins, 2 tough losses, and 2 good wins. Now they face a bowl opponent more or less as good as those 4 opponents and a lot better than the 8 pastries. So it's not really a shock when they get upset, IMHO. And motivation does play a role, not that it's a real excuse. It's part of the game.
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I give you a hard time CD, but I absolutely agree that motivation plays a factor in bowl games. I just like to stir the pot occasionally. ;)
Sometimes teams really don't want to be there. It might be that they were close to a CFP and had a heartbreaking loss and feel like their bowl-- or bowl opponent-- is too lowly for them. It might be that there are a number of players that plan to be NFL-bound and their thoughts are elsewhere.
There are a lot of other factors, too. There are some coaches that don't do much bowl prep at all, instead using those extra practices to prepare for the next season. There are players that have spent time on the awards circuit and get out of shape. There are players that sit out for various reasons.
I've long said that aside from a couple that might determine the MNC, bowl games are meaingless exhibitions. I'd always rather win than lose, but they're a pretty terrible way to determine relative conference strength, which is what so many people attempt to do.
IMO, early regular season OOC are far more indicitive of relative conference strength, but those matchups are so few that we're tempted to use the bowls, since supposedly, they're matching up roughly equal teams from various conferences. In reality, it simply doesn't work out that way.
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Its also quite possible UTs opps take them too lightly including Vegas
Playing with a chip on your shoulder does wonders
As the saying goes only mad folks win football games
Tom Herman has a real ability to get his teams up for bowl games and I like it
Our def front line played the best game of the year
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Its also quite possible UTs opps take them too lightly including Vegas
Playing with a chip on your shoulder does wonders
As the saying goes only mad folks win football games
Tom Herman has a real ability to get his teams up for bowl games and I like it
Our def front line played the best game of the year
We played a 4-man front for a change. It was glorious. I won't say it's always the best, but given our young and studly d-line personnel, and our few but talented LBers, it's the right way to go for now.
Also, Utah didn't give us many spread looks, they kept it tight with 2 RBs fairly often. That plays directly to our team strengths, unlike the majority of B12 teams that play to our current personnel weaknesses.
Hopefully injuries won't hit us so hard next year.
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I'm sick to death of Dabo and his ilk thanking God for their victories. As if God favored them.
Somehow, they never think to blame God for their defeats, or wonder what they did wrong to lose God's favor.
You sound 3.
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You sound 3.
OK. You sound stupid.
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stop it you poo poo heads
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:88:
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The UGA offense is obviously very hit or miss, but Baylor is really struggling to generate much on O. If they can score on their first drive after the half, this turns into a game again.
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I haven't been watching much, as I'm doing some work-work on my computer. But I've checked in from time to time. Baylor looked like the better team for the first couple of possessions, but it's been all downhill for them since then.
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Baylor has been getting into a lot of 4th and 2 situations, not quite able to get the FD.
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One good thing about playing all these young kids is that they want to play and it shows. They probably are doing better than the guys who bailed who would not have been nearly as motivated, and this is good experience. 26-7, still not over, I think Baylor should have punted.
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I think it's over, but I've been more wrong than right this bowl season
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The Dawgs could blow this fairly easily I think. Their offense is not reliable this year.
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Baylor definitely should have punted. Of course, the Baylor receivers should have caught the passes that hit them on the hands on 2nd and 3rd down.
Congrats on the win, CD. Your depleted Dawgs were good enough to win tonight.
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I think that game could have ended otherwise with a few breaks. Another season over. Kind of disappointing.
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Congrats to Georgia on the win. It was very, very easy to root against Baylor. I know droog still likes that team, but I don't think I can ever forgive them for their bullshittery that continued to put young women in harm's way, for years. I feel the exact same way about Penn State. Really, neither should be allowed to continue playing football.
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Congrats to Georgia on the win. It was very, very easy to root against Baylor. I know droog still likes that team, but I don't think I can ever forgive them for their bullshittery that continued to put young women in harm's way, for years. I feel the exact same way about Penn State. Really, neither should be allowed to continue playing football.
To be fair, the football coach was around 10% of the problem. He didn't do the right thing when he should have. I blame him for that, and firing him was the only appropriate thing to do. The even uglier part is that Baylor had an administration that simply decided they didn't like the rules requiring them to put protections in place for sex assault complaints, and therefore would simply not. Sex assault is a pervasive problem on all college campuses. Baylor has it no better nor worse than any place else. However, their intentional decisions to disregard a law they didn't like meant that complaints that should have been investigated weren't. Women got hurt who should have been protected.
That said, the part of the Baylor fan base that continues to believe that the entire narrative, from criminal investigations all the way down to missed pass interference flags, are all the result of deep state collusion between The University of Texas, ESPN, the Trilateral Commission, Adam Weishaupt, and Campbell's Soup make it tough to support the cause.
Matt Rhule is a good coach. Baylor fell into a benefit when he agreed to come. How long he'll stay is another question entirely. This season, Baylor won a lot of 50/50 dice rolls that kept growing the win totals. They were a good team, but Texas Longhorn fans will remember the 1990 campaign as a team that overachieved - until they didn't. 2020 Georgia wasn't 1991 Miami, but the sentiment is the same.
Baylor improved their defense this season which enabled a lot of those close contests. A lot of that talent is graduating. We'll see whether the development continues, or if it was a result of the players themselves. On offense, the OL is limiting them. I can't see an immediate way to change that.
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Let's just play... after Baylor is booted out of the conference.
I can definitely agree with that.
Penn State should also be booted from the B1G and both should have their football programs disbanded permanently. I'll never forgive win-at-all-costs programs that place their football programs above the safety of children and young people. Never. Jesus can forgive, but I won't.
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I'll never forgive win-at-all-costs programs that place their football programs above the safety of children and young people. Never. Jesus can forgive, but I won't.
I removed my post because I didn't like the vibe. I guess you saw it.
But a "program" is a faceless entity, and the bad guys are history.
For now - until someone else turns the other cheek. And it could happen anywhere.
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People always say things like, "it could happen anywhere" and I disagree with that.
That is to say, the assaults could certainly happen anywhere, but the win-at-all-cost culture of denial, excuse, and cover-up of foul play, does not exist everywhere. It's an ingrained culture and it's rooted in the boosters and big money donors as well as the school and athletic administration. Firing the coaches, athletic director, and even the school president isn't necessarily going to eliminate it.
Two years ago, Texas had two players that were accused of sexual assault, and the head coach immediately kicked them off the team. They were later acquitted but the football program took zero chances and had a zero tolerance policy for sexual assault and other similar crimes. I'm good with that. Assaults can and have happened at Texas. Having an athletic program complicit in it, isn't going to happen at Texas.
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And this is how it's supposed to work.
When any student on a college campus is accused of sex assault against another student, the complaint should visit the desk of the Title IX coordinator - which any school that accepts Federal funds (that is, all of them) is OBLIGATED BY LAW to have. Baylor's regents knew of this. They initially flat out rejected having a compliance department at all, then eventually created one - assigned as an additional duty to a professor. The office was a closet in a parking garage.
At any other University, the football coach just really isn't involved. The complaint goes from the police to the Title IX office, and the school's disciplinary process takes over. Your more astute football coaches will likely suspend a player from game activities if the complaint is credible, citing "a violation of team rules" or some such.
These assaults should have never been in Briles' hands, but they were. He failed by focusing on his team members' well-being first. Because he did this, more women were assaulted. For this, he should be blamed. Just getting fired didn't exact justice.
The root of these troubles was (and continues to be) Baylor's Board's outright hostile attitude towards Title IX obligations and their willingness to endanger their students over their views. Baylor's campus is no more or less safe than any other, and their athletes are no more or less dangerous than anyone else's. However, at every other institution, procedures are in place to identify assaults and to provide protections and remediation (such as is possible).
And once again, these things aren't conspiracy. When a school's governing board openly flouts Federal law, someone is eventually going to get hurt. When that happens, it will be found out and exposed.
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Ouch, Thanks for that clear summary. Not good.
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Sexual assaults should not be investigated by the Title IX Coordinator. A sexual assault is a crime, not a breach of university policy, and it should be investigated by the people who investigate other crimes, whether that is the campus police or the local city police.
The way that Title IX is being administered is effed up in this regard.
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yes, the Title IX office, and the school's disciplinary process should hand these to law enforcement
I assume that is their duty under the law
how many priests have be convicted of felonies and put in prison? Not enough? and why not, are they not guilty?
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how many priests have be convicted of felonies and put in prison? Not enough? and why not, are they not guilty?
Obviously, it is one thing to be "pretty sure" someone broke the law, and another to prove BARD to a jury. The threshold for conviction is pretty high.
I imagine a lot of the sexual assault cases come down to "he said/she said" (whatever pronoun is needed). And that isn't enough in most cases sans other evidence.
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Two years ago, Texas had two players that were accused of sexual assault, and the head coach immediately kicked them off the team. They were later acquitted but the football program took zero chances and had a zero tolerance policy for sexual assault and other similar crimes. I'm good with that. Assaults can and have happened at Texas. Having an athletic program complicit in it, isn't going to happen at Texas.
Youre good with that?
I think all accused should have their day in court and if found guilty then fry em otherwise they should have been reinstated to the team
In addition any accuser who lies about the accusation should get the same penalty as the accused would have gotten
otherwise we live the Salem witch trials all over again
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Yeah, players only accused should not be kicked off for that unless there is other clear evidence to the staff. The bar could be lower than in court.
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Ok, I was unclear.
Sex assaults are crimes and are investigated by law enforcement. However, Title IX is part of US Federal Civil Rights legislation which forbids discrimination from any educational opportunity on the basis of of sex. This applies, then, to any institution receiving federal financial support (like any school that accepts federal loans or grant as payment).
Under this authority, schools are obligated to ensure that their students don't face threats or diminished educational opportunities because of their sex. Sexual assaults are recognized as having the capability of diminishing those educational opportunities. Accordingly, every school has a "Title IX Compliance" department that, in addition to ensuring correct funding and availability of opportunity, also helps compile and oversee sex crime statistics and administration.
Being arrested, tried, and convicted of sex assault is a matter for the criminal court system and is handled there. That process can result in a person losing their freedom and going to jail. There are long recognized procedures for this, with commensurate standards.
Participating in college athletics is not a right, but merely a privilege. It can be removed or suspended for far less standards than those required for a criminal conviction in a courtroom. For our purposes here, the Title IX Compliance office is a perfect place for assault claims against a player to land. A sports coach is largely removed from the role of having to decide suspensions or sanctions. The Title IX office handles the fact gathering as is pertinent to the University's need to ensure a non-discriminatory environment. The criminal court system handles the prosecution related to the, well, criminal complaint.
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Youre good with that?
I think all accused should have their day in court and if found guilty then fry em otherwise they should have been reinstated to the team
In addition any accuser who lies about the accusation should get the same penalty as the accused would have gotten
otherwise we live the Salem witch trials all over again
There wasn't enough evidence to convict. There was still shady activity. None of that made the press of course.
The actions by the athletic department were justified IMO.
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And therein lies the difference.
A criminal conviction requires specific procedures and evidence. We're proposing to remove freedom and rights from a human being. Because that's such a dire consequence, we've developed rules and procedures that attempt to ensure that this freedom isn't removed without honest, ethical evidence and argument.
Being accepted on a sports team is a privilege. When you are accepted and agree to join, you obligate yourself to the team's ethos, rules, and restrictions. It may be different in some towns, but Austin's press and police department are not subservient to the University of Texas. If a Longhorn football player does something, they'll know about it and report it - and they should!
When you're a Longhorn football player, your actions attract attention rightly or wrongly. You know that going in. They reflect on the entire team and program. If personal responsibility just isn't your thing, then there's a line of kids behind you who'd like their chance.
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Good football players are allowed to stay on the team--even at Texas--despite all sorts of jack-assery, like driving their car into the side of a house and leaving the scene, resisting arrest, public intoxication, indecent exposure, running from the cops, use of illegal drugs, etc. All that stuff typically gets "handled internally." But let one get accused of some sexual offense (an offense that he is never even charged with in a court of law) and the weight of the entire university comes down upon him. He has no right to counsel, he can't cross-examine the accuser, he is presumed guilty unless he can prove his innocence.
The system is messed up.
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Well, college kids are still kids, and like at home, every infraction doesn't have to warrant major punishment and dismissal. Learning and growing is still the goal, and if a kid can change, then a coach shouldn't jump straight to dismissal.
I suspect, though, your broader thought is the power of a Title IX investigation as applied to your average college student (sports or no). While the facts stated previously are valid: Sex assault denies opportunity on the basis of sex, attending a University is a privilege and not a right, and evidence needed to convict at a criminal trial is and should be at a higher standard than other places. However, let's not pretend that getting kicked out of a University on the basis of a sex assault finding isn't devastating to someone's future.
In that light, I can agree that Title IX Compliance offices are often tasked with a responsibility that they're not equipped for. They lack investigative authority such as warrants or subpoenas (rightly). While it's ultra-rare for someone to claim to be a victim for vengeance (or other) purposes, even defending yourself against a misplaced (while otherwise valid) accusation can be ruinous.
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Good football players are allowed to stay on the team--even at Texas--despite all sorts of jack-assery, like driving their car into the side of a house and leaving the scene, resisting arrest, public intoxication, indecent exposure, running from the cops, use of illegal drugs, etc. All that stuff typically gets "handled internally." But let one get accused of some sexual offense (an offense that he is never even charged with in a court of law) and the weight of the entire university comes down upon him. He has no right to counsel, he can't cross-examine the accuser, he is presumed guilty unless he can prove his innocence.
The system is messed up.
and the system is a result of society, right or wrong
if it keeps going, texting and driving will be a felony
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and the system is a result of society, right or wrong
if it keeps going, texting and driving will be a felony
The society you speak of will never render that result - better to let some motorists die than to take away our seductive smartphones while running errands.
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they took away our seductive drinking and driving
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There is some stupid car commercial (the commercial is stupid) but it has the masses all walking around staring at their phones and the car manages not to run them down.
I'm often over in the park on a beautiful day walking with the wife and see youngster - at least they are walking - staring at their phones. This is akin to crack.
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We've got a generation of young people who walk around with shoulders slumped and heads down as if they were 80 years old.
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I'm on Facebook reasonably often, and not really that connected to Twitter. I do have to remind myself to put the phone down and pick up something else, like a musical instrument, from time to time.
I ride my bike frequently. You can't really putz with a phone and pedal, so there's that. The cell phone thing comes from "fear of missing out". When I was in college, we had online Dungeons and Dragons type games that were more social than game. Lots of chatting. When you logged off and went to bed, it felt like there was a party going on in the next room and you weren't invited. I see that same effect with constantly connected computing (communicating) devices today.
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Somebody told me I should get into Linkin way back, so being new to all of this I did. For me, it not only was weird, but pointless and without any redeeming value, so I went to "unenroll" in the dang thing. I found I couldn't, the option did not exist. I turned off all the beppers so I wasn't getting as many emails, but I still got too many. I finally had to call them. I was getting friend requests from weird people. Networking had zero interest for me, I had a job I couldn't leave.
I got onto FB because when my kids went to college, they told me that was how they communicated not, now with email. They were in My Space initially.
I find FB entertaining at times. I can annoy people I don't even know.
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So, what were the most exciting bowl games? Wisconsin-Oregon would be up there, and the OSU-Clemson semi (I guess not a bowl game?).
The Gator Bowl was sort of I guess with an unexpected ending, but tough to get too excited about that one. I don't think the Cotton or Sugar Bowls were that exciting. The Texas result was most surprising I think.
I keep thinking about how your bowl opponent is likely better than 8 or 9 teams you played regular season, so an upset should not be a shock.
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So, what were the most exciting bowl games? Wisconsin-Oregon would be up there, and the OSU-Clemson semi (I guess not a bowl game?).
The Gator Bowl was sort of I guess with an unexpected ending, but tough to get too excited about that one. I don't think the Cotton or Sugar Bowls were that exciting. The Texas result was most surprising I think.
I keep thinking about how your bowl opponent is likely better than 8 or 9 teams you played regular season, so an upset should not be a shock.
It surprised this Horn. Got rid of our DC and wala we have a good defense ...... amazing
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It was a psych blow to the Pac 12 teams in terms of arguing they should make the playoffs in future years. And of course it salvaged the B12's reputation to some extent.
"We" put too much emphasis on bowl games in large part because there are so few relevant OOC games each year.
Texas is a weird team to me, they hung with LSU and whomped Utah and somehow lost 4 other games.
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injuries matter
at one point only 5 of our original def starters were playing
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Seems to me that Tom Herman is good at getting his team up for a big game.
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Seems to me that Tom Herman is good at getting his team up for a big game.
yep now if only we could win the games we are supposed to win wed have something
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injuries matter
at one point only 5 of our original def starters were playing
Texas suffers from the same thing A&M does: lack of quality depth. The starting guys are really good but they don’t have high quality backups. These guys end up playing more snaps because of it and are therefore more prone to getting injured. Contrast that to UGa who lost a whole bunch of starters but seamlessly put in the backups and didn’t miss a beat.
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coaching might have something to do with it
I dont recall having major injury problems under Mack
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Injuries in one year can happen. If it's year after year, it's coaching. UNC had that year after year. I think they practiced "soft" to avoid injuries and the players were not used to real game contact. Mack stopped that apparently.
I can see that Texas could be talented but thin, and perhaps a bit young as well. UGA was hurt on offense by injuries and folks sitting out, but not as much on defense because Kirby really goes for depth there and the 2s get a lot of meaningful PT in real games. This is the Saban model of course, you play your 2s a LOT for next year they are ready to go. UGA had two 1,000 yard rushers two years in a row because of "platooning".
Texas may not yet be there. If not, good coaching could well mean a quick rise to really being back.
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Sometimes, your just regress to the mean.
Everyone looks for a reason when you go 2-3 years with limited injuries. Then, one season, half the team is hurt. You didn't do anything different. The statistics just catch up with you, eventually.
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coaching might have something to do with it
I dont recall having major injury problems under Mack
DB's are not big guys. They can get hurt without practicing proper technique. Most DB's today prefer to detonate the ball carrier rather than actually tackle. They lack the physical strength, and for the most part, the game allows it.
I think we should go back to a game of arm tackling, and flag all collision tackling. That simplifies all these superfluous and complicated targeting rules.
But anyway, maybe a new DC will have a positive effect on keeping players healthy.
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DB's are not big guys. They can get hurt without practicing proper technique. Most DB's today prefer to detonate the ball carrier rather than actually tackle. They lack the physical strength, and for the most part, the game allows it.
I think we should go back to a game of arm tackling, and flag all collision tackling. That simplifies all these superfluous and complicated targeting rules.
But anyway, maybe a new DC will have a positive effect on keeping players healthy.
maybe the answer is to take all the pads away
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I honestly think that Texas tried to limit the amount of "targeting" ejections by having the shoulder pads be the first point of contact by the DBs. While correct in a static environment (meaning we're standing there and you get to pick your point), a ball carrier will almost certainly be trying to avoid the hit - leading to the main point of contact almost certainly further outside the shoulder (leading to largely a missed tackle) or closer to the head and neck (leading to a likely stinger or collarbone injury).
I'm adamant that football has to get the head hits out of it. The insurance companies won't let it continue if they're not eliminated. However, with current football alignments, we're going to develop a physics problem.
With 11 defenders on 11 attackers, it just isn't possible to play everybody 1 on 1. QBs are too adept at hitting receivers in stride. If a DB lines up inside, the ball is thrown outside, and vice versa. In order to defend (considering the defensive pass interference rules), you're going to have to have the threat of bracket (2 on 1 under and over the top) coverage. This means that there's always going to need to be the threat of a safety or LB running full speed opposite in direction to a receiver also running full speed.
Obviously, you can understand this without force vector diagrams. There's always going to be full force collision. It's no good telling the defender to break down and tackle. He's going to get a 230lb mass going 20mph right in his chest. Similarly, trying to arm tackle at those speeds just doubles the problem.
The ability to rapidly advance the ball in large chunks through precision passing and route running is too good to ignore. Football has moved away from the low speed pushing and shoving matches to a game inviting high speed collisions of human beings. The only solutions I can think of involve radically altering the structure of the game to make passing less attractive.
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The only solutions I can think of involve radically altering the structure of the game to make passing less attractive.
That would mean to reverse that 50% of the rule book that was added to make the passing game more attractive.
But frankly, I think any ball thrown out of bounds should be a penalty. If you commit to pass, the ball must end in the field of play.
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what about making a thrown ball live whether caught or not
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what about making a thrown ball live whether caught or not
wasn't that the original rule a century ago?
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not sure but if it was that might explain why there werent many 50 yard bombs
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I always thought it was funny in football that a pass was never "incomplete".
It's INNNcomplete.
Football is the only platform where the word is said that way.
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I always thought it was funny in football that a pass was never "incomplete".
It's INNNcomplete.
Football is the only platform where the word is said that way.
It's also unusual in the pronunciation of DEE-fense.
Most places it's de-FENSE.
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It's also unusual in the pronunciation of DEE-fense.
Most places it's de-FENSE.
So true. I never thought of that one. Great. Now I have another reason to be cynical when watching football.
I think a lot of this comes from the fact that football did not originate from intelligent people. No I'm serious. Stupid people were known to play football years ago. And fans were along the line of Nascar. Baseball is where the sophisticated fans were.
But anyway, it never quite abandoned it's cro-magnon roots. As evidenced by a famous and revered color announcer naming Favre FARVE. And football society all went with it for the man's entire career.
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I think you just insulted some perfectly good Cro-Magnon Men, Brown County.
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yes, I feel that wasn't needed
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other than Rutgers, wasn't football an Ivy league thing? a 'gentleman's' sport approximating combat? and, i kinda DO mean that... they beat the crap out of each other... as many as 50 people on the field at the same time... breaking bones and rupturing spleens... or pancreas (reminiscent of Pally Shore). it was a BRUTAL game that actually killed people on the field and off (as a result of on-field play).
i reckon it could be argued we've since advanced, but... from the looks of the headlines on your news delivery network of choice- i'd argue we've not advanced much at all... unless our destination is truly "idiocracy", which... well... it may be.
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Maybe similar to the classic Pugilists? Yeah, old-time football was definitely that way.
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Hey @MikeDeTiger (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=1588) congrats on the win and the NC! I told you so. :)
I think my prediction was 38-23? Not too far off I guess. Clemson didn't go quietly in the first, but after that LSU just asserted themselves. Jeaux Burreaux had a very good game and a fantastic season, and Clemson really had no answer for all of those WRs (nobody else did all season long, either).
Sort of interesting that the only three teams to keep it within single digits with LSU were Auburn, Alabama, and... Texas.
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yep and that was with half of LSU's def on the bench with leg cramps
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Hey @MikeDeTiger (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=1588) congrats on the win and the NC! I told you so. :)
I think my prediction was 38-23? Not too far off I guess. Clemson didn't go quietly in the first, but after that LSU just asserted themselves. Jeaux Burreaux had a very good game and a fantastic season, and Clemson really had no answer for all of those WRs (nobody else did all season long, either).
Sort of interesting that the only three teams to keep it within single digits with LSU were Auburn, Alabama, and... Texas.
Hot take: Of the three, Texas was the only one that was really close.
I give Auburn some credit for making things difficult in the RZ, but self-inflicted derps made that game closer than Auburn's team did. Massively outgaining an opponent and then getting stopped due to fluky things like one stud WR thinks a ball is for him so he jumps 12 feet in the air and nearly intercepts it from another stud WR in the back of the endzone it was actually intended for....yeah I'm not giving Auburn credit for any of that.
Alabama never had the ball in the second half with a chance to take the lead. And their only decent plays against our defense were trick plays orders of magnitude beyond regular trick plays. As in, not reverses or flea-flicker, schematic trick plays, but rather, pretend to look to the sideline to get more calls so LSU does the same thing, oops, we snapped the ball instead and you're all just standing there, trick plays. Chumps. It's basically admitting on national TV that you can't win straight up.
There was a point early in the 2nd half, LSU's first possession, I believe, where I thought LSU had a chance to put their foot on Texas' throat and mentally end the game. But Helaire whiffed on a good-enough pass, didn't pick up the necessary three yards to keep moving, LSU punted, and Texas carpe diem'd the hell out of it the rest of the way. An instant classic was born. Frankly, Texas was LSU's only real test this season, how 'bout that.
Yeah, I lived in Austin a few years, why do you ask?
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Also, I see UT climbed back into the final Top 25, which is a nice boon for the inevitable "Greatest Season Ever?" conversations that are already popping up.
I'm not around much. I'll probably drip a self-serving-yet-factual post on the SEC board in the next day or two, detailing the massive amounts of records that were broken and pros and cons to this team's season compared to some other Standard All-Time seasons (we still start with '71 and '95 Nebraska, right?), and then I'll probably disappear again for months at a time.
So let me leave you with these thoughts:
--How do we get bowl-Herman to coach the rest of the year? And by "we" I mean Longhorn fans, which I obviously am.
--utee--you asked before about who's leaving from this team re: next season. Burrow is gone, obvs. WR Jefferson is almost certainly gone, though I think it could potentially be a smart move for him to stay. It's a deep WR class, and he's not going ahead of a lot of others. But I still doubt he stays. The other guys have to stay, they're not eligible. TE Moss could go, pretty sure. Passing game coordinator Brady is gone, looks like. Hilarious that Sean Payton told him going to LSU was a mistake, now he's going to spend the next several years terrorizing the Saints defense. Speaking of defense, we won't know until declarations are done, but I expect quite a few early departures on that side of the ball. For roster/experience reasons, I picked the visiting team to win both games in the LSU/UT series and until I get a good reason to do otherwise I'm sticking with it. If I'm not around, enjoy your win in Tiger Stadium next year.
--Since we beat Clemson, can we be Death Valley again? They said we couldn't use that after they beat us in the Peach Bowl in 2012. Tiger Stadium is accurate, but kinda lame.
--CWS, I hope utee and a bazillion other Texas fans go to LSU next year and come back with the inevitable glowing reports of the friendly people, awesome tailgates, and wonderful food consumed that every visitor to LSU has come back with for years. The truth is LSU is widely reported to be one of the best experiences for visitors, and I've seen it myself first hand much of my life, when I could still go to games. I'm sorry your experience with LSU fans was at the Superdome, and I'm the first to admit something Twilight Zonish happens to LSU fans in NOLA....they are assholes, I confess. At least at my one visit to the Sugar Bowl in 2001 vs. Illinois. But FFS man, get off that BS and just recognize that every fanbase has their dummies and most people are pretty nice. I think we all remember certain stories of what an OU fan did to a Texas fan several years ago. I know many people who attended the 2003 Sugar Bowl and came back with a few eyebrow-raising stories of Sooner fans. Let's not act like all Sooners are some bastion of fan virtue. Y'all have asshats too, yet I find it easy to focus on some very friendly Sooners I've met here. So maybe harp on something else for a while.
--I think I finally figured out what my real lucky t-shirt is. I stumbled onto it by dumb luck this season, wore it subsequently each game week, and hey, if it works don't knock it. We'll see if it holds up for longer, or if you have to find the right lucky shirt each season. Problem, of course, is that by the time you find it, it could be too late. I'll try it early next year for the Texas game, if we somehow win that game, it's definitely because the shirt still has mojo.
--Did we ever get past the faking cramps thing? I noted from the B1G game thread CWS has not. Eh, I give up. Some people believe what they want to believe despite mountains of evidence to the contrary. Or mountains of injury reports, players visibly leaving the field, or missing a stretch of entire games because of it. Whatever. Yeah, LSU fans boo'd the Clemson kid last night. Shame on them. I still never want to take the chance that somebody is really hurt, even if he wasn't. And at least get the intent right. It would've been injuries most of them were faking, not cramps. And they really committed to it, given how many missed the next several games. There was the one guy utee says looked at the sideline and fell down. He also did not miss any games. He was definitely faking it. BOOOOOOOOO!!!!! At any rate, this is the type of stuff that only people who think Texas' A/C was really out believe. Some people don't want facts, they want rancor.
--Geaux Tigers.
--I heard the LSU coach say that one time.
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I'm not around much. I'll probably drip a self-serving-yet-factual post on the SEC board in the next day or two, detailing the massive amounts of records that were broken and pros and cons to this team's season compared to some other Standard All-Time seasons (we still start with '71 and '95 Nebraska, right?), and then I'll probably disappear again for months at a time.
we start and stop there
oh wait, I'm cramping................
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MDT:
I'll be the first to admit that your team this year is right up there among a very few others who have a claim to be the "best ever" in CFB. And--despite my negative opinions about LSU fans--I was rooting for LSU for selfish reasons. I didn't want to see Clemson getting any closer to OU's 47-game win streak than the 29-straight they were sitting on, and a dominant performance by LSU would provide a tiny glimmer of hope that OU looked very bad at least in part because LSU was very, very good, and not just because OU was really, really bad.
As for the mention of the "cramps"--heh! That was just for the benefit of our friendly Horns (even though I posted it on the Big Ten board where there was a game thread). I never cared one way or the other about LSU's cramps in the game with UT.
I'll just say this, though: It's always aggravating when the other team has cramps, and there's always the tendency to suspect said other team of faking them.
Was Clemson faking them last night? I have no idea.
Again, congratulations! Your guys were the cream of the crop of this season and rank right up there with the all-time greats.
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Did Clemson have "cramping" issues while LSU was rolling? I didn't watch the entire game due to various family and work commitments.
A Monday night in mid-January is a pretty terrible time for a college football game. During the Holidays, when I have day-after-day off from work and am in a celebratory mood, is way way better.
Just my opinion, perhaps some people really like having the CFP title game two weeks after the end of the CFB season for most teams.
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"Cramping" is a good way to break up a HUNH team when they get the speed rolling. In the LSU/Clemson game, it didn't really come up.
Clemson's preferred defense was a the blitz. They sent players from everywhere and left LSU's receivers with 1 on 1 coverage. Joe Burrow was wrapped too tightly at the beginning, missed some easy throws, and let the pressure affect him. There's no chance to get the HUNH working under those conditions.
Once Burrow got his eggs back in the basket, the 1 on 1 coverage meant that Clemson simply got gashed for huge chunks of yardage at a time. It wasn't a factor of offensive speed causing the defense to misalign or wear down. The receivers were simply burning their coverage for 40 yards at a clip.
Clemson's defense never got off page 1 of the play sheet. LSU racked up yards and points, then went to work on the clock. The HUNH just never showed up.
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Brent Venables has always been one of the top defensive guys in college football
He started the game off well with the blitzing. When the big Linebacker was called for targeting and ejected, it really hurt the scheme.
LSU went to quick passing. Getting the ball out in 2 seconds or less. This negated the blitz and Venebles wasn't able to find and answer.