To make matters worse, OSU's record since the FBG was moved from Tempe to Glendale: 1-3Yeah, I went to a Fiesta Bowl in Tempe where Ohio State won a National Championship and one in Glendale where Urban Meyer won a National Championship.
2014 - The Braxton Miller shoulder injury. (UFM/Dabo)This game - Roby sat out,injured i believe,Noah Spence suspended lead the team with 8 sacks.Both him and Joey Bosa were true freshmen.Both Shazier and Miller played but were hurt.One of those what if games,those were all impact players.With Spence and Roby and a healthy Miller and Shazier I believe they would have covered that 5 points
Didn't OSU knock the snot out of ND in the Fiesta? Was that one in Tempe?
Didn't OSU knock the snot out of ND in the Fiesta? Was that one in Tempe?No it was in Glendale, I was there
Woody Hayes got fired for hitting a Clemson player in a loss and the Buckeyes remain winless against these tigers.Yes. Woody Hayes will not hit a Clemson player in the Fiesta Bowl.
Will it be different this time?
For future consideration, Clemson should be required to join a P5 conference.Yeah, this AAC crap doesn't cut it for me.
Having got that out of the way, Ohio State is the best overall team in every phase of the game, in NCAA football. They will have to play as they did in the 2nd half against Wisconsin; Ohio State gets the win.
Some extra incentive for the Buckeyes; the last time these two met in the playoffs:As some one else mentioned maybe that score should be embedded on the the welcome mat to the Woody Hayes Athletic Center.Maybe you noticed the agrument that was made earleir for at least getting guys like Dwayne Haskins or a fellow named Joe Burrow perhaps you heard of him into the QB rotation.Kinda helps when you can stretch the field and go over the top.I just hope Fields play is not affected by his bad knee
Ohio State 0
Clemson 31
| FIESTA BOWL |
| #2 Ohio State Buckeyes (13-0) vs. #3 Clemson Tigers (13-0) |
| December 28 @ 8:00 - Glendale, AZ - ESPN |
| For two schools that have meant only three times ever, all in bowl games, this has been one hell of an interesting three game series. Obviously their first meeting was the 1979 Gator Bowl punch that ended the Woody Hayes era. The 2014 Orange Bowl was the first real signal that Dabo's Clemson had arrived, when they put up 40 points to beat the Buckeyes. Then they met three years ago, also in the Fiesta Bowl, also in the CFP Semifinals. That game represented perhaps the only time since the 2006 National Championship Game, where I saw an Ohio State team absolutely get manhandled. The Clemson defense held Ohio State's offense to just 215 yards (110 of which came from Curtis Samuel) and just 9 first downs. This Ohio State team is much better than the 2016 version, which went 2-1 against the three ranked Big Ten foes they faced, and needed OT and double OT to get those two wins. I'm most interested in watching Ohio State's pass rush against Clemson's offensive line. I've heard plenty of discussion about how this is the best offensive line Dabo has had at Clemson, and the numbers bear that out. They rank #1 nationally in line yards, standard line yards, passing down line yards, OL opportunity rate, #2 in stuff rate, and #4 in sack rate. Trevor Lawrence has only been sacked 8 times all year. Chase Young has more than double that himself...and he sat out two games. Plus, Clemson hasn't faced a top 40 defense this year, in terms of ypp allowed, and only three that ranked in the top 60. Ohio State is #1, along with leading the nation in sack rate at 12.41%. The highest ranked team Clemson has played in sack rate? Charlotte. Justin Fields was everything he was billed as, and more. But this still is not the aeriel attack that Ohio State had a year ago with Dwayne Haskins. Everything goes through the running game, which was increasingly the JK Dobbins show as the season progressed. Everyone knew this Clemson defense, as opposed to the past couple, was strong from the back up. And that secondary has not disappointed, leading the nation with just 5.1 ypa allowed, but the young line has played surprisingly well. They've also been a top 10 national run defense, with their starting line boasting a second team All-ACC player, a pair of third teamers, and an honorable mention. Clemson might be phenomenal. It's just so hard to know. But we've seen Ohio State play a number of top teams, and they've rolled. Penn State was able to make it sort of respectable by generating some turnovers, but that's been just about the only way anyone has slowed them down. Seeing Amir Riep step up against Michigan also gave me faith that Ohio State has the cover guys on the back end to be one of the few teams that can match up with Clemson's deep receiving group. |
| OHIO STATE 34, CLEMSON 27 |
It's weird that non-championship football remains to be played after that game.Working around the Rose Bowl is a challenge. I think that's one of the major obstacles to getting the playoff games on NYD, when the Rose isn't one of the host games.
It;s the third good CFP Semi game, but the first played off NYD. They need to figure out a way to always play these on NYD.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qLCV_znK73EThis reminds me - I was right about him.
This reminds me - I was right about him.Ya and wrong about Burrow/Haskins
true, not just redzone, but 1st and goal
- 1st and goal on the 5, FG
- 1st and goal on the 8, FG
- 1st and 10 on the 11, FG
I thought Chase Young was great.2 tackles and 1 qb hurry, doesn't come across as "great" to most.
2 tackles and 1 qb hurry, doesn't come across as "great" to most.He caved in the line constantly and Clemson really struggled to keep a clean pocket
Been watching replays.I posted that on the bowl stream. Blatant non-call, and would have offset the other personal foul.
Wade didn't lift his head up on his ejection hit, and by definition that is targeting. So, proper call, but I'll still argue he wasn't targeting, or playing dirty; he didn't launch, lead with his shoulder, and wrapped up, all things they are taught to do.
Also on that play there a serious hands to the face call against Chase Young that went uncalled.
Ya and wrong about Burrow/HaskinsI don’t know which aspect of Burrow/Haskins this is about, but it made something pop to mind.
So this raises the question, did OSU chose wrong last year?Tough to say but the whole Burrow/Haskins thing was directed at URBZ man-crush and unrepetant support of JT under center in '16 & '17
Been watching replays.This is a great example of a lack of objectivity.
Wade didn't lift his head up on his ejection hit, and by definition that is targeting. So, proper call, but I'll still argue he wasn't targeting,
Some good points there. As for officials in these games...There were also problems in the Iowa - USC game, including replay officiating. It didn't affect the outcome of the game and possibly not even the scoring as Iowa dominated the game notwithstanding resistance from officiating. "They" I don't know who "they" is, need to look into this because the Ohio State - Clemson game was momentous, and let's face it, it was an embarrassing night to be an official.
Enough money is being made. The playoffs (ESecPN) can afford to hire NFL officials since they do not hold any games on NFL dates anyway. That would solve a lot of problems, and lend credibility that is sorely lacking right now.
I'm not going to hold my breath.
No one is arguing Lawrence was defenseless. He wasn’t. The rule itself is bad. It puts defenders in a terrible spot if the if the ball carrier changes their head level at the last second.There are lots of coincidences here, K.
But a lot of this can be avoided if the defender simply doesn’t duck their head and lead with the crown of their helmet. The old adage is “see what you hit.” Wade didn’t and it cost him. If his face mask is what makes contact with Lawrence’s helmet then he isn’t tossed. I saw WVU guys get tossed several times this year for hits similar to that on ball carriers.
And can we stop with the “rigged” stuff? A bad call doesn’t mean it was done on purpose.
The NCAA has nothing to do with the playoffs and does not sponsor a championship. It's all ESecPN.This seems not true. The NCAA has a great deal to do with the playoff. If might not outright own the thing, but the thing is in the hands of its sub-entities and corporate partners. Plus this game is played by its rules with officials it blesses.
There are lots of coincidences here, K.There really aren’t. There was a questionable call in the catch/fumble. And the more I think about the whole “completing the process of a catch” thing the more I’m starting to think it may have been the correct call.
I linked a twitter post above, from a respected former NFL official. He does the booth work for NBC Sunday night now.I get it but the in game expert on the game disagreed right from the start. Even before it was overturned he was saying it should be overturned.
I get it but the in game expert on the game disagreed right from the start. Even before it was overturned he was saying it should be overturned.You mean, the expert from ESecPN?
And even if it was a bad overturn it doesn’t mean it was done with bad intentions.
The rule itself is bad. It puts defenders in a terrible spot if the if the ball carrier changes their head level at the last second.Lock the thread
You mean, the expert from ESecPN?C’mon Badge. Really?
Gotcha.
There really aren’t. There was a questionable call in the catch/fumble.Re-Open the thread,wrong,he took 3 full steps with the ball firmly in his grasp other officials have come forward and said he blew it.So many bad calls have not been reversed,this one was right from the getgo.Why didn't they call holding on Lawerance's 67yd td run?They could have w/o even reviewing it - then they reach in to the witches caldron and pull that - BS
it was a bad overturn
if it adheres to the rule of completing the catch, the rule needs to be changed
IMO
C’mon Badge. Really?In one poll over 80% said it was a fumble....because it was
So IF we concede it was a catch (and I do), then we also have to consider that his forward progress could have been considered to be stopped, and so there actually was no fumble at all, and therefore no fumble return.Because the receiver also conceded he made the catch by trying to get away
Because the receiver also conceded he made the catch by trying to get awayNot sure what you're saying here? The receivers attempts, or lack thereof, to evade defenders, don't really have anything to do with forward progress.
C’mon Badge. Really?Hell yes, really. There has been terrible ESecPN bias ever since ESecPN bought and paid for the SEC, and it started even earlier - when Delany showed ESecPN his ass, and started his own network. It's bitter, and it's even worse now that Fox has come in and gotten first dibs on Big Ten games.
You mean, the expert from ESecPN?Badge, I mean this nicely, what in the hell does this post mean?
Gotcha.
I get it but the in game expert on the game disagreed right from the start. Even before it was overturned he was saying it should be overturned.BAB - my post was in response to this one. How does my post not make sense? Did you read the OP wrong?
And even if it was a bad overturn it doesn’t mean it was done with bad intentions.
Badge, I mean this nicely, what in the hell does this post mean?He’s saying the guy was getting a stack of 100s to say on air it wasn’t a catch.
The expert is agreeing the call should've gone the way of the Big Ten team. Against the ACC team. Which is not an SEC team.
I get that people really like to feel like the world is against their team. But this doesn't make any sense.
He’s saying the guy was getting a stack of 100s to say on air it wasn’t a catch.No. I'm saying the guy on the air is employed by a network that has intense anti-B1G bias.
No. I'm saying the guy on the air is employed by a network that has intense anti-B1G bias.Is there anyone besides Big Ten fans who believe that? I mean, are there Arizona fans who turn on ESPN and think, “God ESPN really hates the Big Ten?”
BAB - my post was in response to this one. How does my post not make sense? Did you read the OP wrong?Ahhh, now I see. I thought you were talking about the tweet posted. It makes slightly more sense now, but still not a ton of sense.
I think there's another interesting rule at play here that was never considered-- forward progress.This is interesting and I've seen FP called all kinds of different ways. One that tOSU fans will all remember was a safety in a bowl game against Arkansas a while back. The tOSU ball-carrier got out of the EZ then got shoved back in. Then he broke free of the pile, changed direction, and ended up getting tackled in the EZ. The Refs ruled it a safety. Ohio State fans far and wide thought that was ridiculous because he had been out of the EZ at one point.
IF we're going to agree that 3 steps constitutes a football move (and I certainly do) then we can take that bit out of the equation-- he caught the ball.
However, he was never able to make a forward move, he was being pulled from the moment he caught it, and so if we imagine an extreme instance of the scenario where, say, 3 other defenders arrive, literally pick him up, and shove him 5 yards further back, but he holds onto the ball, then this is where we typically see the officials spot the ball right where he made the catch. Because his forward progress was stopped. And even if a whistle doesn't occur immediately where forward progress is stopped, the refs typically treat ANYTHING that happens after that point, as a dead ball.
So IF we concede it was a catch (and I do), then we also have to consider that his forward progress could have been considered to be stopped, and so there actually was no fumble at all, and therefore no fumble return.
Which comes back to my 3rd most hated rule in football-- forward progress. I understand why they feel it's necessary to have such a rule, but man it is one of the most inconsistently called, subjective, POS decisions that refs can make in a game. And it occurs dozens of times in any given game, not just a handful like targeting or PI, so I believe its cumulative effect could end up being far greater than most of those one-offs.
A receiver catches a ball, sticks one foot down and goes out of bounds. Same goes for the end zone.but, if the reciever goes to the ground out of bounds or the defender prys the ball loose after going out of bounds, he did not complete the process of the catch
Catch.
Not incomplete.
Catch.
forward progress is determined when the whistle blowsIt actually isn't. Plenty of times a pile pushes back a ballcarrier, the whistle blows sometime after that, and the ball is awarded at the furthest forward point. Hence the name "forward progress."
Ahhh, now I see. I thought you were talking about the tweet posted. It makes slightly more sense now, but still not a ton of sense.If I thought it was a good job, sure I would say so - if need be. In this case, so many are on the opposite of what the SEC booth fairy did, it's not even funny. I have no dog in this fight, other than I always hope there are no SEC officials in games the Badgers play in.
Those in-game experts tend to be wrong often. They're kind of a running joke. To read into it that it is because ESPN likes the SEC, and in this case really just hating the Big Ten because Delaney dared sign with Fox, this is a stretch of logic that is a tad much.
If you start with the presupposition that the TV network hates your team and conference, you will find lots of "coincidences." If there was a an SEC-Big Ten game and the same rules guy sided with the Big Ten team, you wouldn't say, that's a good job by they guy who drew a Big 10 paycheck for two decades. But the SEC team's fans would point it out as a clear bias against them. Because it's feelings.
98 percent of this angst about the great conspiracy isn't real.
It actually isn't. Plenty of times a pile pushes back a ballcarrier, the whistle blows sometime after that, and the ball is awarded at the furthest forward point. Hence the name "forward progress."I agree and think this is lazy at best from the officials.
It's quite common to see a pile push back a ballcarrier, strip the ball, return the "fumble" for a TD, with only late whistles to stop the play. And yet still, the ballcarrier is considered "stopped" and the ball goes back to the furthest forward point.
I have to ask a couple of questions.Yes, plenty of times. Bad calls happen on the field all the time. Humans make errors. Shit happens, and all that.
How does anyone determine what is just human error and what is purposely done? I mean, how can you tell that Olave didn’t run the wrong route on purpose?
Also, have you ever seen a bad call in a key moment of a big game and not thought it was done in purpose?
I have to ask a couple of questions.I don't think you are asking me, but I always try to follow Hanlon's Razor which states:
How does anyone determine what is just human error and what is purposely done? I mean, how can you tell that Olave didn’t run the wrong route on purpose?
Also, have you ever seen a bad call in a key moment of a big game and not thought it was done in purpose?
Even if only one of tOSU's FG's had been a TD that still would have made it a very different game. Instead of 16-0 it would have been 20-0. When Clemson scored three TD's instead of 21-16 it would have been a one point game. When Ohio State scored again that would have made it 26-21 instead of 22-21. Would Day have gone for 2 up 5*? It would have been either 26-21 (missed 2pt conversion), 27-21 (made PAT) or 28-21 (made 2pt conversion). Then when Clemson scored they would have either:No doubt on any of this. If OSU is up 28-0, or even 24-0, there is no chance for the replay booth to affect the game. It's over at that point.
- Needed a PAT to tie it up at 28, or
- Needed a PAT to take a 1 point lead 28-27, or
- Gone for 2 to make it a 3 point game 29-26.
The INT that ended the game happened on 2nd and 7 at the Clemson 23. The Buckeyes needed a TD because they were down by 6. If they had been tied, or down by 1 they would have been playing for a FG to win. Even if they had been down by 3 they would have had it in mind to kick a FG for OT. From right there it would have been a 40 yard FG.
If two of tOSU's FG's had been TD's then instead of 16-0 it would have been 24-0. When Clemson scored three TD's they'd still have been down by a FG. Then, instead of tOSU's late TD giving tOSU a lead it would have expanded tOSU's lead to 31-21. Clemson's late TD would have just made it look close as a 31-28 final.
If all three of tOSU's FG's had been TD's then the game never would have been within less than 7. Clemson's three TD's would only have gotten them within a TD and tOSU's late TD would have pushed it back to a 14 point game. Clemson's late TD would have done nothing but make the final close, 35-28.
*I think he might have. To me, the math is somewhat different up 5 rather than up 1. Leading 22-21 Day obviously chose to kick the PAT rather than try to pull ahead by a FG. Part of that, I think, is that you don't know what will happen from there. Maybe you score a FG next. Maybe you give up a Safety. IMHO, the difference between a 5 point lead and a 6 point lead is less significant than the difference between a 1 point lead and a 2 point lead.
Yes, plenty of times. Bad calls happen on the field all the time. Humans make errors. Shit happens, and all that.I think there is ambiguity and uncertainty about what is a “football move” or “completing the process of a catch.”
It gets suspicious when the correct call is made on the field, and gets reversed.
Somewhat related topic:I was surprised and thought he should have went for two. With 12 minutes left in the game you are talking about limited possessions to go back on top if Clemson kicks a FG to take the lead.
What does everyone here think of Day's decision NOT to go for two after tOSU's last TD? To review, the TD gave tOSU a 22-21 lead with 11:46 to go in the game. Ohio State kicked the PAT to take a two point lead, 23-21.
As it turned out, it didn't matter. Since Clemson scored a TD rather than a FG they went up by 4 (27-23). They then opted to go for two to make it a 6 point game. Swinney's decision to go for two was both obvious and irrelevant. By that time there was only 1:49 to go in the game so Ohio State was obviously either going to score a TD or not. Clemson going for two simply made it such that IF tOSU had scored a TD, the PAT would have been necessary. Even if tOSU had gone for, and gotten a 2pt conversion, Clemson's TD would have put them up by three, 27-24 and they would have kicked the PAT to take a four point lead. Either way, tOSU needs a TD.
What about earlier in the game though? I think coaches sometimes make a mistake by "chasing" it too early. I thought that Harbaugh made that mistake against tOSU back in 2018. Michigan scored in the 2nd quarter to close to being down by 2, 21-19. Harbaugh chose to go for 2 to try to tie it up. IMHO, that was a bad decision because with that much football to be played you should just take the point and figure out later whether or not you need a 2pt conversion. By the time Michigan scored again they were down 41-25 early in the 4th quarter and Harbuagh went for 2 again to try to get it within 14. Michigan didn't make that one either but note that if they had just kicked the PAT the first time then they would have only needed a PAT the second time to get within 14 at 41-27. Instead they missed both 2pt conversions and were still down by 16 (41-25).
I have always thought that the appropriate time to switch from just kicking the PAT to making the decision based on the score is the beginning of the fourth quarter. However, this should realistically vary based on how high scoring of a game it is. Ie, in a defensive low-scoring game maybe that switch should occur at halftime or during the third quarter while in a high-scoring shootout it should probably be put off until sometime later in the 4th quarter.
I don’t think anyone was intentionally trying to screw Ohio St. I can’t imagine ESPN would go under if the school with the largest and most passionate alumni base in the country were to play for the national title on its airwaves.One notion I've seen is that SEC refs HATE the B1G and were out to get them.
One notion I've seen is that SEC refs HATE the B1G and were out to get them.How do you feel about that notion?
How do you feel about that notion?HA!Being a Rebel planted behind enemy lines for 3 decades,he may not touch that
Somewhat related topic:I would have went for 2
What does everyone here think of Day's decision NOT to go for two after tOSU's last TD? To review, the TD gave tOSU a 22-21 lead with 11:46 to go in the game. Ohio State kicked the PAT to take a two point lead, 23-21.
Not sure what you're saying here? The receivers attempts, or lack thereof, to evade defenders, don't really have anything to do with forward progress.He was never at a standstill to begin with and was stripped of the ball after possession - Pot Stirrer
I don't think you are asking me, but I always try to follow Hanlon's Razor which states:Well usually because the corrupt conspirators are manipulating the stoopid incompetents
Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity.
Stupidity and incompetence are vastly more common than corruption and conspiracy.
This - so very rarely are bad calls reversed but that was pure horseshit and on a big stage.Sorry but that guy should be sent packing - game shouldn't be decided by a reviewer who is blind,corrupted or crazy
It gets suspicious when the correct call is made on the field, and gets reversed.
I think he's talking about intentThank you.
which of course has no bearing on the call
Somewhat related topic:The Browns did this against Baltimore,IMO that sealed Freddie's fate along with calling flea flickers/reverses in short yardage situations with the NFL's leading rusher in your huddle
What does everyone here think of Day's decision NOT to go for two after tOSU's last TD? To review, the TD gave tOSU a 22-21 lead with 11:46 to go in the game. Ohio State kicked the PAT to take a two point lead, 23-21.
As it turned out, it didn't matter. Since Clemson scored a TD rather than a FG they went up by 4 (27-23). They then opted to go for two to make it a 6 point game. Swinney's decision to go for two was both obvious and irrelevant. By that time there was only 1:49 to go in the game so Ohio State was obviously either going to score a TD or not. Clemson going for two simply made it such that IF tOSU had scored a TD, the PAT would have been necessary. Even if tOSU had gone for, and gotten a 2pt conversion, Clemson's TD would have put them up by three, 27-24 and they would have kicked the PAT to take a four point lead. Either way, tOSU needs a TD.
What about earlier in the game though? I think coaches sometimes make a mistake by "chasing" it too early.
Yes, plenty of times. Bad calls happen on the field all the time. Humans make errors. Shit happens, and all that.I'd be very impressed if ESPN had a hand in some high-scale fraud to fix games to hurt their own title game ratings all for the sake of making Jim Delany and the Big Ten, which they still have a rather large investment in, look bad.
It gets suspicious when the correct call is made on the field, and gets reversed.
This - so very rarely are bad calls reversed but that was pure horseshit and on a big stage.Sorry but that guy should be sent packing - game shouldn't be decided by a reviewer who is blind,corrupted or crazyFortunately, it wasn't really decided by that. It was affected, not decided.
OK, now you're getting to a point.NFL officials wouldn’t solve anything. As soon as one of them reversed something you didn’t agree with you would be making the exact same accusations.
You're not going to get a bunch of guys on the field to mess with a game (they didn't). But a bitter old man in the booth, who hates the Big Ten and all things North? He wouldn't have to be on the take. He's just there.
Solution: NFL officials, for all of these NYD6 games.
Fortunately, it wasn't really decided by that. It was affected, not decided.Let's see TD & PAT makes the score 30-29,so I'm sticking with decided - they blew it.I'd pay for that guy to watch the replay again and take a polygraph - really I would
NFL officials wouldn’t solve anything. As soon as one of them reversed something you didn’t agree with you would be making the exact same accusations.Nope.
Nope.So because the guy is affiliated with the SEC you automatically assume he hates the Big Ten/Ohio St? That doesn’t make any sense
If this had been Big 12 or AAC or MAC officials, I wouldn't be posting on it at all - other than to say it was a terrible reversal. Which is what 95 percent of anyone who watched thinks.
:014:
So because the guy is affiliated with the SEC you automatically assume he hates the Big Ten/Ohio St? That doesn’t make any senseIt also makes no sense to just simply dismiss the possibility.
We often want the world to be more interesting than it is. It was a bad rule interpretation exacerbated by being in a close game and the apparent oddity about using or not using slo-mo in instant replay.what is this crap about not using slo-mo when reviewing a play?
Let's see TD & PAT makes the score 30-29,so I'm sticking with decided - they blew it.I'd pay for that guy to watch the replay again and take a polygraph - really I wouldHmmm, we can pick the individual things that decide the games from all of them.
It also makes no sense to just simply dismiss the possibility.The weird part is that the guy who worked 20 years for the Big Ten quickly agreed with him. Now I suppose the answer is that he's paid by ESPN, but that would imply not a rogue agent but something slightly more orchestrated.
It's that one. The hit was targeting by rule and the rule has you thrown out. I think it's a bad rule, but it's the way it works. I'm sure the refs felt it was accidental as well, but they are not given disgression on that front.
Do you really think Sean Wade should have been ejected for the targeting call even if you want to technically agree that it was targeting? Was it really intentional and malicious or was it more dumb luck? The officials decided that so very quickly that also made me really suspicious.
what is this crap about not using slo-mo when reviewing a play?I think the theory is that slo-mo might understate the speed of things. So things look more dramatic and intentional because instead of happening in 0.8 seconds, they happen in 5.
A heard a couple different announcers talking about this
I've always assumed slowing down the play helps the ref make the correct call?
Ohio State had two chances to win in the last 3 minutes: first of all by stopping Clemson from driving 94 yards. They failed. Secondly the opportunity to drive 75 yards and score a touchdown, again they failed.Players have been ejected all season for the exact same hit Wade put on Lawrence. As soon as I saw it I knew he was gone.
That’s the bottom line of it.
Now having said that I became really suspicious of the officials on Ohio states very first Drive where they were running tempo and they had Clemson‘s defense completely off-balance and tired, and the officials waited until Ohio State was about to snap the ball inside the 10 yard line to start the play and do a very very long review of Garrett Wilson’s catch. This allowed Clemson to gather themselves and rest their defense and keep Ohio State to a field goal. My question is why did they wait for the next ball to be snapped before they review that play. It went like that all night long.
Do you really think Sean Wade should have been ejected for the targeting call even if you want to technically agree that it was targeting? Was it really intentional and malicious or was it more dumb luck? The officials decided that so very quickly that also made me really suspicious.
It also makes no sense to just simply dismiss the possibility.Badge, that kind of answer speaks more to your bias against all things SEC than anyone else’s bias against the Big Ten.
It's that one. The hit was targeting by rule and the rule has you thrown out. I think it's a bad rule, but it's the way it works. I'm sure the refs felt it was accidental as well, but they are not given disgression on that front.This is about where I am on it. I don't like the ejection but I get that the rule is there. I think there are two things that need to be considered:
Badge, that kind of answer speaks more to your bias against all things SEC than anyone else’s bias against the Big Ten.I don’t know. I certainly don’t believe in any conspiracies but with how that game was officiated- it was weird how often an officials ruling or lack of- went against OSU. There seemed to be a Bias. I watched the game again yesterday and was really floored by how often when Ohio State went tempo the officials would do things to slow them down like on the very first drive. I was floored how the officials could ignore the egregious hands to the face against Chase Young on numerous players including the one that was reviewed by the officials on the targeting call. And most of all if you really look at the fumble that was overruled the slow-motion video evidence strongly supports the car on the field and it really isn’t even debatable
Hmmm, we can pick the individual things that decide the games from all of them.That same defense scored a touchdown that got denied not by the opponent
I'll say OSU's defense decided the game. Title game spot on the line and they give up 94 yards in four plays. That's the group that decided it.
That same defense scored a touchdown that got denied not by the opponentYou make a great point here. Sadly lost in all this conversation is the fact that two NFL players were going at it right there. The receiver use his hands to keep the ball away from the defense of back and that’s how we always catches the ball yeah the defense of back was all over him and relatively quickly forced him to fumble the ball and create a touchdown. That was some great football by both players right there.
Clemson quarterback Trevor Lawrence said the vicious hit he took from Ohio State cornerback Shaun Wade in the first half of Saturday's College Football Playoff Semifinal at the PlayStation Fiesta Bowl left his arm numb and was a turning point for the entire team in its 29-23 win over the Buckeyes.I tip my hat to him. He showed me some great skill sets and determination that I had not seen from him before.
"It was just, they hit me, and I was worried it was my collarbone for a second because I couldn't feel it up there around my shoulder and neck, and my arm just went numb," Lawrence said Monday on a CFP teleconference. "It was just a really bad stinger. And then I got kind of -- I was kind of pissed off because I knew they were over there thinking like, 'All right, we knocked him out.'"
ironically, many Clemson fans assumed that Justin fields was “like JT Barrett“ and could run but not throw but the reality was fields mobility was extremely limited by his banged up knee and he had a great day passing far out doing Trevor Lawrence, while Lawrence save his team with his running skills.also ironic that announcers kept praising Dobbins for explosiveness and speed when he was caught from behind a couple times, while the Buck defenders couldn't catch Lawrence
It was a catch and a fumble.On January 13 th,I'll have Bayou Bengal Blood surging thru my veins - Geaux Jeaux Burreaux
also ironic that announcers kept praising Dobbins for explosiveness and speed when he was caught from behind a couple times, while the Buck defenders couldn't catch Lawrencethat's all about angles and who got blocked and who didn't.There was holding on that run didn't you hear?
That same defense scored a touchdown that got denied not by the opponentIt doesn’t change his point that you are cherry picking one play out of 150 or so and claiming that, and that alone, decided the game.
It was a catch and a fumble.Now we can close the thread. The Grand Exalted Mystic Ruler has spoken.
It was a catch and a fumble.Well there you have it.
It doesn’t change his point that you are cherry picking one play out of 150 or so and claiming that, and that alone, decided the game.If you add 7 earned points onto the Buckeyes final score what do you have?I'm not asking for anyone's confirmation - that was clear.Watch that receivers hands and show the congregation here where it was bobbled.I have seen so many times calls not reversed,I actually felt good when it went to the review booth thinking it was obvious.Seriously go to the many fan forums(sans tOSU or Clemson) and go to Saturday Nights Game threads and look at the responses
If you add 7 earned points onto the Buckeyes final score what do you have?I'm not asking for anyone's confirmation - that was clear.Watch that receivers hands and show the congregation here where it was bobbled.I have seen so many times calls not reversed,I actually felt good when it went to the review booth thinking it was obvious.Seriously go to the many fan forums(sans tOSU or Clemson) and go to Saturday Nights Game threads and look at the responsesThat 7 points can come from any number of plays. Dobbins catching two passes near the goal line, not letting Clemson drive 94 yards in 4 plays, Olave not breaking his route off the wrong way.
That 7 points can come from any number of plays. Dobbins catching two passes near the goal line, not letting Clemson drive 94 yards in 4 plays, Olave not breaking his route off the wrong way.Imagine if he had been next to the sideline, and only one foot got inbound.That would have been a catch with arms extended.The call on the field to be over turned there had to be undisputed evidence. it didn’t meet that definition.if there is not clear and indisputable evidence to overturn it, the call on field stands.
You are choosing the one that takes the onus off of your team’s mistakes.
I think fans of every conference think their officials are the worst.Agreed. If not, they must be better losers than myself. ;)
Agreed. If not, they must be better losers than myself. ;)
I think fans of every conference think their officials are the worst.That is probably true. However, I can honestly state that B1G officials are the worst that I have seen. Ohio State should have been already prepared for the officiating Saturday as they have seen much worse all year long. :93:
I think fans of every conference think their officials are the worst.In the P5, that goes to the PAC. ACC follows. Then SEC. Then B1G. XII has the best.
That is probably true. However, I can honestly state that B1G officials are the worst that I have seen. Ohio State should have been already prepared for the officiating Saturday as they have seen much worse all year long. :93:Ehhh… C'mon man. OSU and UM get all the breaks in conference.
In the P5, that goes to the PAC. ACC follows. Then SEC. Then B1G. XII has the best.
Ehhh… C'mon man. OSU and UM get all the breaks in conference.I can't speak for ttun, but my experience has been that the B1G refs are terrible and seem to have their worst games when Ohio State plays. They can find OSU holding with great consistency, but seem to be oblivious to it when Chase Young is being tackled behind the LOS.
Glad to see that it is obvious to real officials. Not just my homerism.Good find the only problem it couldn't have happened on the very next play.I believe that was a punt then Clemsons H2H
The play Dobbins ankle was bent. Now that’s what real targeting looks like.
Random Comment I made during the game:Wes the why a sort of existential way, like, why is this happening to my team? Or was it a mechanical why of why are they stopping the game?
OSU is a rhythm offense all three times they made it to the Red Zone there has been a Time Out and OSU failed to get any more offensive production. 1st 2 were TV Timeouts?!?! Why?!?
Do they ever stop the clock mid-drive for solely TV reasons?I brake for the hell of it so I don't see why not
I think individual officiating crews are different and thus worse than others. Does one conference have more "bad" crews? PerhapsNot only not represented in the game, but from a conference with zero interest in the game. That would have left us with PAC officials in both games.
only the very top graded crews should be working the CFP
and they should be from a conference not represented in the game
Not only not represented in the game, but from a conference with zero interest in the game. That would have left us with PAC officials in both games.
So, anyone like the NFL officials idea?
Not only not represented in the game, but from a conference with zero interest in the game. That would have left us with PAC officials in both games.NFL crews would be just as good as PAC crews
So, anyone like the NFL officials idea?
Well, now the replay official's name is out there.So what is his name? (a quick google didn’t pop it up)
Might want to consider retirement, or be fired.
Even the Big Ten director of officials and national director of officials are on record saying that call was bad. No word from the SEC office yet. Probably figuring out how to ESPiN it.
I don't recall that TV time outs were called "out of the blue". They usually come when there is a player hurt or perhaps a review at times or a change of possession, e.g., when the clock was stopped anyway. Do they ever stop the clock mid-drive for solely TV reasons?They were for a replay and the end of quarter, but I wasn’t sure if the post was asking for that answer/clarification or just saying why did it befall the team in that way.
So what is his name? (a quick google didn’t pop it up)It's within this article.
I don't recall that TV time outs were called "out of the blue". They usually come when there is a player hurt or perhaps a review at times or a change of possession, e.g., when the clock was stopped anyway. Do they ever stop the clock mid-drive for solely TV reasons?
We didn't know. That's why I was asking. The 3rd time Day came running down the field and called the time out, but the other two no one in our group could explain why there was a TV timeout.Replay to check the catch and the end of the first quarter, I believe.
It's within this article.Ahh. Looking at the wording, I'm trying to understand who makes the call.
https://www.cbssports.com/college-football/news/big-ten-supervisor-of-officials-fumble-return-for-td-should-have-stood-in-ohio-state-clemson-game/
Well, now the replay official's name is out there.So this is a mild tangent, but what does it take to get fired in everyone's business?
Might want to consider retirement, or be fired.
Even the Big Ten director of officials and national director of officials are on record saying that call was bad. No word from the SEC office yet. Probably figuring out how to ESPiN it.
Somewhat related topic:I was surprised. I had just told my wife that Ohio State would certainly go for 2 when the kicking team trotted out. I think that Day should have gone for the 2-pointer.
What does everyone here think of Day's decision NOT to go for two after tOSU's last TD? To review, the TD gave tOSU a 22-21 lead with 11:46 to go in the game. Ohio State kicked the PAT to take a two point lead, 23-21.
As it turned out, it didn't matter. Since Clemson scored a TD rather than a FG they went up by 4 (27-23). They then opted to go for two to make it a 6 point game. Swinney's decision to go for two was both obvious and irrelevant. By that time there was only 1:49 to go in the game so Ohio State was obviously either going to score a TD or not. Clemson going for two simply made it such that IF tOSU had scored a TD, the PAT would have been necessary. Even if tOSU had gone for, and gotten a 2pt conversion, Clemson's TD would have put them up by three, 27-24 and they would have kicked the PAT to take a four point lead. Either way, tOSU needs a TD. . . .
I have an OSU friend who feels like OSU did more to cost them the game than Clemson did to win it. He uses examples of the dropped passes and penalties as game changing plays that clemson did not create.It goes both ways. That is a hard loss to take because, tOSU certainly outplayed Clemson in many ways and made some critical mistakes where an inch here or an inch there would have been enough to win the game for the Buckeyes.
The other guy (Brown) just took a horrible angle. He was nowhere close to blocking the kick and hit the kicker anyway.head shaker
I'm home with a sick kid today and he is napping (finally) so I'm rewatching the Fiesta Bowl.Next time you watch it(I don't have it recorded)Watch the targeting on Dobbins right after they booted Wade - that was flagrant.I almost had an aneurysm when they didn't call it think HB linked it.Also right before the end of the 3rd the blatant interference on Olave that wasn't called,next play Fields was picked.There were no calls of importance go against Dabo,I'm beginning to think the little creep made a deal with the Devil.
Next time you watch it(I don't have it recorded)Watch the targeting on Dobbins right after they booted Wade - that was flagrant.I almost had an aneurysm when they didn't call it think HB linked it.Also right before the end of the 3rd the blatant interference on Olave that wasn't called,next play Fields was picked.There were no calls of importance go against Dabo,I'm beginning to think the little creep made a deal with the Devil.No, no, no, no! God was on his side! Didn't you hear his post-game comments?