Taylor is probably gone, but it's not set in stone yet. He will decide after the bowl game.Since he made the comment that he does plan to play in the bowl game, something to the idea the team played the season for a bowl and wants to remain part of it, I think he is gone. Just since the bowl game was a question sounds like a hint at his attentions.
I heard David Pollack say the only move is for the Bengals to draft Joe Burrow #1, and hire Joe Brady as OC.Makes perfect sense. Therefore probably won't happen lol...
Honestly, that almost makes too much sense.
You slide him in there with a great offensive mind, who he spent a year working with. They took a LT with their first pick last year, who missed the entire season with an injury, and a TE in the 2nd round, who is also hurt. Joe Mixon is coming on at running back, and you've still got A.J. Green and Tyler Boyd.
Instead of shoehorning your QB into your system, you bring the QB and system in together, and mix it with an underrated group of skill position players, and a 1st round LT. Plus whatever you can buy with the money in getting Andy Dalton off the books to upgrade the defense and OL? The Bengals have a good chance to be the surprise team of 2020 IMO. Going from 0-16 or whatever, to 8-8ish?
I heard David Pollack say the only move is for the Bengals to draft Joe Burrow #1, and hire Joe Brady as OC.I can't see them going 7-9 w/ that OL. Even if Burrow is say as good as Kyler Murray next year. Getting Brady as an OC would be smart tho. However, I'm not sure if coach whatshisname will let him call plays and I don't see Mike Brown paying big $$$ for a OC.
Honestly, that almost makes too much sense.
You slide him in there with a great offensive mind, who he spent a year working with. They took a LT with their first pick last year, who missed the entire season with an injury, and a TE in the 2nd round, who is also hurt. Joe Mixon is coming on at running back, and you've still got A.J. Green and Tyler Boyd.
Instead of shoehorning your QB into your system, you bring the QB and system in together, and mix it with an underrated group of skill position players, and a 1st round LT. Plus whatever you can buy with the money in getting Andy Dalton off the books to upgrade the defense and OL? The Bengals have a good chance to be the surprise team of 2020 IMO. Going from 0-16 or whatever, to 8-8ish?
There is one constant w/ pretty much the 10 worst teams teams in the league. An ugly OL and the Bengals OL is the worst of a really bad lot. I do think QB development/performance is highly dependent on the OL (see Ravens, Chiefs, heck even Duck Dodgers on the steelers has been competent) Murray is doing alright with a really bad OL, but he can move.Yep. The OL covers up a lot of sins from the skill players behind them.
I don't know what's wrong with the Cowboys. Their offense statistically is great (best in yards/game, but only around 8th-9th in pts/game), and their defense is above average. That should be a good recipe.I don't really follow the NFL all that closely and certainly not the Cowboys but those stats scream two things:
They're -2 in turnover margin, which doesn't help, but it shouldn't be that significant after 13 games.
They're 6-7. 5 of their 7 losses were by a TD or less. All 6 of their wins were by >1 TD. To me, that says that maybe the luck just isn't flowing their way in those close games.
Carolina should keep Cam (who's a bargain at $19M - that's not even Sam Bradford money) and draft Tua. There is a good core of vets there, they could turn it around pretty quickly.real chance he comes back. not saying i'd recommend that, but there's a real chance several bama jrs come back for a revenge tour. smith, ruggs, wills, leatherwood, xavier, and moses (already said he's staying). most think it hinges on tua, and his dad is firmly in the stay in school camp. per rumors, of course. we'll see. harris and jeudy are only ones most consider locks to go to draft.
That being said I could see Tua falling as far down as the Patriots.
UGA Running Back D'Andre Swift declares, as expected. He barely played in the Sugar Bowl, but seemed to want to. Good luck to him.I found that super weird.
I could see Collins for sure,DPJ is raw and I'd be shocked if he went in the 1st rdAgree but there was no way in hell he was gonna stay to play for Harbaugh in that shit show offense.
real chance he comes back. not saying i'd recommend that, but there's a real chance several bama jrs come back for a revenge tour. smith, ruggs, wills, leatherwood, xavier, and moses (already said he's staying). most think it hinges on tua, and his dad is firmly in the stay in school camp. per rumors, of course. we'll see. harris and jeudy are only ones most consider locks to go to draft.
If any of the good teams picking late in the 1st let Tua fall, they'd be idiots. They're the good franchises who make luxury-item picks. Draft Tua, don't even let him think about football until he's 100%, then he takes over for your QB in 2-3 years.
by then are too scared by the "controversy".Idk, if Manziel and Tebow are 1st round picks, I'm not sure teams give a damn about being controversial.
Idk, if Manziel and Tebow are 1st round picks, I'm not sure teams give a damn about being controversial.
I get their thinking on this. What I don't understand is the portion of fans that very likely wouldn't have let up in their fandom if he did stick around for years as a backup. They'd be clamoring for him after every incompletion from the starting QB, after every failed QB sneak. They'd never wrap their head around the reality of the situation.
I actually thought Tebow was never that bad and could have been good career backup. I guess no one wanted 24/7 WWL coverage of a backup QB tho.
Antoine Winfield Jr. declares. Good luck to him.I haven't really watched him play much, but if he is even half the player is dad was, he will be a pro bowler. Sr. was one of the best corners that I ever saw play the game. For his size, he was not only a shutdown corner, but didn't allow anything around the edge on his side. He would tackle anyone.
I haven't really watched him play much, but if he is even half the player is dad was, he will be a pro bowler. Sr. was one of the best corners that I ever saw play the game. For his size, he was not only a shutdown corner, but didn't allow anything around the edge on his side. He would tackle anyone.Crazy thing was, is that he was fine, but nothing special with the Bills, who drafted him. Then went to Minnesota, and became elite. His best year was his 10th season in the NFL, and his Pro Bowl seasons were his 10th, 11th and 12th. Don't see that too often.
Crazy thing was, is that he was fine, but nothing special with the Bills, who drafted him. Then went to Minnesota, and became elite. His best year was his 10th season in the NFL, and his Pro Bowl seasons were his 10th, 11th and 12th. Don't see that too often.Darryl Talley (former WVU player) came pretty close. He was a 2 time Pro Bowler at LB for the Bills who didn’t earn the honor until his 8th and 9th seasons in the league.
I'd be curious if there were any other multi-time Pro Bowlers, whose first didn't come until at least their 10th season. Particularly position players, QBs are a little different. I imagine like Rich Gannon or Brad Johnson or Doug Flutie maybe did it
Darryl Talley (former WVU player) came pretty close. He was a 2 time Pro Bowler at LB for the Bills who didn’t earn the honor until his 8th and 9th seasons in the league.That is what I remember most about him. And he was about 175 lbs or something like that? I never remember him missing a tackle and usually when he made contact, the runner went down right there, not 5 yds downfield.
On another note, I was a total fanboy of the elder Winfield. Loved that guy when he was at Ohio St and followed him him somewhat in the NFL. Just loved the way he played the game. He was great, and I mean great, in run support. Very solid cover corner too.
That is what I remember most about him. And he was about 175 lbs or something like that? I never remember him missing a tackle and usually when he made contact, the runner went down right there, not 5 yds downfield.Yep, 175, 180. Somewhere in that range. Best tackling corner I’ve ever seen.
Yep, 175, 180. Somewhere in that range. Best tackling corner I’ve ever seen.Totally agree. My favorite Buckeye ever. Best corner I ever saw, short of Woodson.
He actually reminded of a kid I played football with for years. Hell of a football player. He started at CB for us as a freshman and he was just like Winfield. Wasn’t a big dude but man he tackled someone they were tackled. Rarely hit anyone higher than the knees. I saw him on several occasions just flip ball carriers upside down from the force of his hits.
Yep, 175, 180. Somewhere in that range. Best tackling corner I’ve ever seen.As far as tackling goes I have to go w/ Woodson there. Also Frank Minnifield as well (though the 2 had very similar games, just personal preference).
He actually reminded of a kid I played football with for years. Hell of a football player. He started at CB for us as a freshman and he was just like Winfield. Wasn’t a big dude but man he tackled someone they were tackled. Rarely hit anyone higher than the knees. I saw him on several occasions just flip ball carriers upside down from the force of his hits.
Darryl Talley (former WVU player) came pretty close. He was a 2 time Pro Bowler at LB for the Bills who didn’t earn the honor until his 8th and 9th seasons in the league.being a lifelong Viking fan, I can vouch or Sr. Stud!
On another note, I was a total fanboy of the elder Winfield. Loved that guy when he was at Ohio St and followed him him somewhat in the NFL. Just loved the way he played the game. He was great, and I mean great, in run support. Very solid cover corner too.
Titans didn't get the memo that they were cannon fodder
Henry's a fookin' beast runs upright like Dickerson with the smash of Earl.And he just Tebowed it
I dunno the Titans "D" seemed to contain Jackson fairly well w/o him
Who was that All-American DB from Minnesota about 15 years ago? Wasn't he the best-tackling CB? Wore 22 I think...Tyrone Carter.
We have draft thread, but so much of the recent news surrounding free agency doesn't quite fit there...That's why I changed it to Draft/Offseason
I'm gonna say that it's not a great time to be a running back in the NFL...
That's why I changed it to Draft/OffseasonAhh, didn't see that. Thanks for the merge, then.
Brady to the Buccaneers? :smiley_confused1:
Brady to the Buccaneers? :smiley_confused1:writing was on the wall there.
Bill O'Brien trades Deandre Hopkins and a 4th to the Cardinals for David Johnson a 2nd and a 4th.He is without a doubt the worst GM in the NFL. He’d be right up there for worst coach in the NFL it wasn’t for another overweight New England reject that coaches the Detroit Lions.
I do agree there's more roster talent there, but I think the question is whether you really believe that going from Jameis to Brady is the difference between a 7-9 team and a contender... Especially since his arm isn't what it used to be.I don’t see any drop off in Brady’s arm. Whatsoever. His arm was never that big to begin with. It’s still right about where it’s always been, above average. In fact, PFF rated Brady as the #1 rated passer on throws that traveled over 20 yards in the air last season. And that was without him having any help at all.
I don't think it's about money for Brady. It's that he's still got the ego telling him "I've still got it", and he wants to prove that to the world. And that he's telling himself that the Buccaneers are closer to being a contender than they really are.
I worry that reality is going to punch him right in the mouth, and he'll end up coming out of this a LOT worse than if he'd just decided to hang it up.
Granted, in 2019 the Bucs had pretty good defensive stats, not so great in pts/game but their team was -13 in TO margin over the course of the season so that probably made for some easy points for opposing teams.
So maybe he'll be ok...
The Bucs willingly drafted a QB #1 with the most interceptions thrown in college football in 2014. That's on them.I think I read a stat on ESPN or something that Jameis has like 122 turnovers in 72 starts since he’s been in the league from 2015-2019. Jameis has lead all QBs in turnovers by a wide margin in the last 5 seasons.
Bill O'Brien makes Chip Kelly look like a good GM.He makes Matt Millen look like a good GM. Well, maybe not that bad. But yeah, the guy is awful. Easily the worst GM in the NFL.
They couldn't have squandered Deshaun Watson's rookie contract more if they tried
Going from Brady to Jameis is going to result in at least 4 or 5 more wins for Tampa. At least.Jameis belongs right next to Jamarcus for Busts - and I might have to apologize to Jamarcus for that
He makes Matt Millen look like a good GM.Um no even though your joking,I've lost track of how many GMs the Browns have had or I'd throw their names out there but not worth anyone's time looking up
Jameis belongs right next to Jamarcus for Busts - and I might have to apologize to Jamarcus for thatI wouldn't go that far. Jameis was/is a hell of a lot better than Jamarcus ever dreamed of being in the NFL. Jameis' first two years were actually pretty good for a young QB. The problem with Jameis is he's never cut down on the turnovers after those first two seasons. They've been ramping upwards. That's not what you want to see.
So, the LSU wunderkind QB goes to Cincinnati. Does he start right away? Will he be decent? Hmmmm.I feel terrible for him if he goes to Cinci. It's one of those franchises like the Lions or Browns- that I wish upon no player. But the Bengals would be crazy to pass on him.
Graveyard of QBs usually. He is a remarkable college talent I think.
Stafford has had a decent career with the Lions, at least a long one anyway. I think he had a pretty good WR for part of that.Stafford has had some good WR’s, but he never had a legit OL or run game to speak of. The defenses have been inconsistent and the coaching has been awful.
I would trade down to get more linemen, but what do I know?
Can you trade down for new ownership?That is the seventh funniest thing OAM has ever posted.
Can you trade down for new ownership?the only trade the Lions need to make lol.
the only trade the Lions need to make lol.Law of averages - the dick wasn't suppling masks,gloves,sanitizer to his own employees who were working like raped apes
there have been rumors that Jeff Bezos was in talks with the Ford family to purchase the Lions once the wife of William Clay Ford croaks. Hopefully those rumors are true. Everything that freaking guy touches turns to gold. He’d make the Lions a winner.
It's interesting - to me - the D. Swift is considered the 3rd, 4th, 5th, 6th best college running back and is projected to be drafted before any of the rest (which is a projection). I infer his "game" fits better with the NFL? Is that his pass catching ability, pass pro, what?I think he's gained good weight in the past 2 years and he showed he still has speed with his 40 time. It's not just that he looks or seems fast or quick, he proved it, and at 215 lbs.
Is it often that the top CFB RBs don't go at the top of the draft and the order changes a lot?
That could be changing,remember listening to Florio & Sims awhile back.Defenses have been adjusting to faster,lighter player to counter spreads,HUNH and the like.Coordinators turning/countering to Henry/Chubb/Elliot/McCaffrey hitting what they believe to be a softer underbelly.I'd definately take Taylor in the 1st.Unless if your OL is so pathetic it wouldn't make a difference
RB has become such a devalued position, it’s such a passing league now and most teams do it by committee- that it honestly just doesn’t make sense to take a RB in the 1st round anymore unless that guy is like a Zeke Elliot, Gurley, Barkley level player imo. Swift isn’t in that class imo. Taylor might be- which is why I think he’ll probably be a 1st rounder.
I haven’t seen any mocks yet projecting Swift going ahead of Jonathan Taylor.Every projection I've bothered to glance at has Swift going first, hence my question. He's generally considered 4th or 5th or so best in CFB.
Tread life?Yeah, I think so. I think combination of work load and Wisconsin OL, people have become slightly wary of Badger backs in the NFL. Off the top of my head, have any other than Melvin Gordon panned out?
JT: 926 carries
DS: 440 carries
Yeah, I think so. I think combination of work load and Wisconsin OL, people have become slightly wary of Badger backs in the NFL. Off the top of my head, have any other than Melvin Gordon panned out?James White?
rotating another back in on 3rd down can mean he's much better at catching the ball or running screens or just getting to the edgeOr just a deception so the defense will be looking for him/that
Yeah, I think so. I think combination of work load and Wisconsin OL, people have become slightly wary of Badger backs in the NFL. Off the top of my head, have any other than Melvin Gordon panned out?Even Gordon doesn't have the best reputation in the NFL, due to low career ypc numbers.
If Taylor loses a point for having the Wisconsin OL, so should Swift. UGA had what many consider the best OL in the country.Agreed. Georgia has a tackle that might be a top 20 pick. Their other tackle might go in the 2nd round. Oh and they have a guard projected to go in the 3rd to 4th round.
Tread life?If so, seems stupid to me. I don't buy the notion that every RB has X amount of carries in them. Injuries are a part of football, and they are just flukish things that happen that no one can control. Some guys get lucky and never get seriously injured over a decades plus long careers (see Barry Sanders or Emmitt Smith) and some blow their knees up after only a few great years (see Gale Sayers or Terrell Davis). It's a crap shoot.
JT: 926 carries
DS: 440 carries
yup, why a 3 down back is betterthat is what made Marshall Faulk- arguably the greatest complete RB ever when you think about it. Not saying he was the greatest pure runner- but in terms of running, pass protection, and receiving all rolled into one package- I've never seen anyone close to him. He probably could've been a Pro Bowl WR had he switched positions.
the defense can't be deceived into thinking it's 3rd down
that is what made Marshall Faulk- arguably the greatest complete RB ever when you think about it. Not saying he was the greatest pure runner- but in terms of running, pass protection, and receiving all rolled into one package- I've never seen anyone close to him. He probably could've been a Pro Bowl WR had he switched positions.Faulk was a great one
The draft is in less than a week. Will it be one of the highest rated events in sports?if the weather sucks for golf. I'll be watching
I don't think soHence my question. Almost no one considers Swift to be the top CFB running back. He's probably top five. But almost everyone says he will be the first RB taken in the draft. One theory is fewer carries, OK. Another is he's more of a three down back. Perhaps what "we" value in CFB is more pure running ability without giving credit to pass blocking and catching the ball etc. and the NFL does.
a 3 down back is valuable in NCAA and NFL
I remember Sony Michel who backed up Nick Chubb was drafted before Chubb (who went early second round). I though Chubb the better back. Others thought Michel better for the NFL.How's that working out? Chubb has been a significantly better pro RB than Michel. And that's despite Michel playing on arguably the greatest NFL franchise in the modern era, and Chubb playing on arguably the worst.
Hence my question. Almost no one considers Swift to be the top CFB running back. He's probably top five. But almost everyone says he will be the first RB taken in the draft. One theory is fewer carries, OK. Another is he's more of a three down back. Perhaps what "we" value in CFB is more pure running ability without giving credit to pass blocking and catching the ball etc. and the NFL does.College success and NFL potential are very different things. If that's news, then there's the reason you have difficulty distinguishing between the two when rating college-only all-star type things.
I remember Sony Michel who backed up Nick Chubb was drafted before Chubb (who went early second round). I though Chubb the better back. Others thought Michel better for the NFL.
Most NFL stars were CFB stars, and most CFB stars are NFL stars, it seems to me, if injuries are eliminated.The first part is pretty/mostly true. The second part is extremely false.
Extremely false, as in it almost never happens that a CFB star becomes an NFL star?I think you're confusing your words. You could specify any population and MOST of them aren't going on to become NFL stars. You could pick a position group at a helmet school, and MOST of those players aren't becoming stars in the NFL.
Huh. I guess I should pay more attention.
That is not what I'd consider "extremely false", and of course you only list skill player positions.I posted the skill position players because I'm not going to even attempt grading every DT and Guard on his quality of play. I acknowledged it was a quick n dirty study, jeez.
Let's call NFL stars Group A.See bold. This is what you're having trouble with. I'm not sure if you're misspeaking or just don't understand it.
Let's call college stars Group B.
.
Most of group A used to be Group B.
Some of Group B become Group A, but not most. Nowhere near most.
.
Group B will always be bigger than Group A, for 2 reasons:
1 - Group B turns over every 4 years
2 - Group A is harder to achieve
I kind of wish the draft was on it's old format. Start at noon, take a million years to get through. They should just devote the whole week to the draft.It should start at noon Saturday, but with a better clock. That was a goddamned drinking event. I get the prime time thing, but if they are hell-bent on that, keep the Thursday first round, then skip ahead and start 2nd round Saturday morning.
It should start at noon Saturday, but with a better clock. That was a goddamned drinking event. I get the prime time thing, but if they are hell-bent on that, keep the Thursday first round, then skip ahead and start 2nd round Saturday morning.Back when I was in Cincinnati, a group of guys (around 15 to 20 of us) that were fans of a number of different teams use to get together for the draft at a local drinking establishment and spend a long time spending a fair amount of money when the first round of the draft was on a Saturday. It was a great time very similar to the variety of views and thought we get here because there is so many different perspectives. Once it went to Thursday, not so much too many of us has to work the next day.
Maybe the thinking is you can get those linemen later in the draft, but you just HAVE to get this special QB.The thinking is: you can’t win in the NFL without a QB. Those teams you listed that always won around 10+ games a year- had- Tom Brady, Aaron Rodgers, Russell Wilson, and Ben Roethlisberger.
The same few teams seem to safely win 10+ games each year (NE, GB, SEA, PIT) despite always drafting late and the same few suck balls over and over, no matter how many high picks they get (CIN, CLE, NYJ, WAS, OAK/LV, JAX).
Are those QBs winners because they are exceptional QBs or because they have an exceptional supporting cast?Aside from Roethlisberger, those QBs haven’t had all-star casts around them. They have been able to raise the level of play of the players around them. Seattle, GB, and NE had mediocre talent around their QBs forever and Brady, Rodgers, and Wilson were still able to lift the play of the players around them and get the max out of the guys they had. Roethlisberger on the other hand almost always had elite weapons at his disposal.
I GUESS the worst starting QB in the NFL is an exceptional QB by other metrics. Maybe he simply looks bad because he needs an extra 0.2 seconds to pass, or a better offensive scheme, or something, maybe a better defense. I wouldn't say top QBs are "dime a dozen", but then look how many are available this year who looked to be pretty good.
I think Joe Burrow on a crappy team will be a crappy QB, while Jake Fromm on a very good team might well be a winning QB. I pick on Jake because his raw talent is not the sames as it is with the others.
Is 18 fumbles (8 FR, 4 SO, 6 JR) in 968 touches a lot?According to this, they consider averaging a fumble in <75 touches to be "red flag" territory.
I find it interesting how a top level CFB player might get drafted fairly late, second or third round anyway. I'm also surprised somewhat that even Cleveland would draft Manziel, that one had mistake written all over it from the start, but it was Cleveland.See last years Super Bowl. 49ers led by dominant DL and running game and mediocre QB v. Super QB and decent enough team around him.
In this day of "analytics" and whatnot, you'd perhaps think they would be more, um, efficient.
I've noted many times my idea would be to focus on the OL and DL and build from there if I had a bad team. The idea that Joe Burrow can go to the Bungles and turn that franchise around strikes me as unlikely to pay off.
See last years Super Bowl. 49ers led by dominant DL and running game and mediocre QB v. Super QB and decent enough team around him.Great point.
The thinking is: you can’t win in the NFL without a QB. Those teams you listed that always won around 10+ games a year- had- Tom Brady, Aaron Rodgers, Russell Wilson, and Ben Roethlisberger.The 2000 Ravens disagree. As do the 02 Bucs and 15 Broncos. Oh, and the 90 Giants and 17 Eagles won the SB with their backup QBs, so there's that.
The Seahawks were picking early every year before they got Russell Wilson. The Belichik Patriots were 5-13 with Bledsoe before Brady fell from heaven into the starting line-up.
It is impossible to win in the NFL without a QB. The teams that don’t have an elite QB never win anything.
See last years Super Bowl. 49ers led by dominant DL and running game and mediocre QB v. Super QB and decent enough team around him.I mean, that's an example of something, but in the end, that Super QB threw a pick down 10 with less than 12 minutes to go in the Super Bowl. And if that running game had been all that dominant and that Chiefs defense had been all that mediocre, then SF can probably grind out more than a first down on the two biggest possessions that could've sealed a title.
I'd still start by drafting linemen if I had a bad team. Even a Johnny Manziel couldn't show his inherent greatness with Cleveland.Wasn't Joe Thomas still there then?
I'd still start with linemen. I don't see the other approach ever working, e.g., having a classic bad team that is somehow turned around because they drafted a superstar. I'm not saying you don't want a superstar of course, but wait, be patient, build your lines, then go for the talent. You might even stumble across a superstar running back or QB or WR. Where was Jerry Rice drafted? Well, OK, not a great example.Cowboys took Aikman #1. Broncos essentially took Elway #1 when they traded. Ditto NY Giants for Eli. Colts took Peyton #1. All those teams got Super Bowls out of their #1 overall QB picks. That’s just off the top of my head. I’m sure there are a couple more in NFL history.
Cowboys took Aikman #1. Broncos essentially took Elway #1 when they traded. Ditto NY Giants for Eli. Colts took Peyton #1. All those teams got Super Bowls out of their #1 overall QB picks. That’s just off the top of my head. I’m sure there are a couple more in NFL history.Orlando Pace. No. 1 pick, on the short list of best to ever play. Ron Yary was also taken No. 1 and he didn't win a Super Bowl, but led his team there four times. Eric Fisher actually was taken No. 1 overall and did win a title with him, though he hasn't been all that. Jake Long was only a four-time Pro Bowler.
Has there ever been a team take an OL #1 overall and win a Super Bowl?
It was pretty much a wash at TE, but Chiefs had better WR’s and the best QB in the entire league. That Super QB took the game over in the 4th QTR while the 49ers mediocre QB folded under pressure.It was the arrogant 9ers defense that let up 3 scores in the final 6 minutes.Spend more time finishing up than celebrating INTs and posing for pictures
I find it interesting how a top level CFB player might get drafted fairly late, second or third round anyway. I'm also surprised somewhat that even Cleveland would draft Manziel, that one had mistake written all over it from the start, but it was Cleveland.Most of us had a melt down,couldn't believe that pixie was drafted higher than the 3rd rd.It was only a few yrs earlier they took a 28yr old rookie weedon - can't make this shit up.If TNT were brains Haslem couldn't blow his eardrums out.I've always said this board could ferret out talent better than most NFL front offices
Fournette is one of the most talented backs in football. A change of scenery might do him very well.Maybe but he could have picked up a Jameis attitude.Not a trait in high demand i would think
89 draft is on ESPN2Imagine if the Packers had taken Barry Sanders #2 instead of Tony Mandrich. Brett Favre arrived in '92. They would've played together for 7 years and probably longer, because I highly doubt Barry retires after the '98 season had he been in a winning organization.
Orlando Pace. No. 1 pick, on the short list of best to ever play. Ron Yary was also taken No. 1 and he didn't win a Super Bowl, but led his team there four times. Eric Fisher actually was taken No. 1 overall and did win a title with him, though he hasn't been all that. Jake Long was only a four-time Pro Bowler.Jake Long would've been in the HoF if not for injuries derailing his career. His first four years in the league he never missed a start until the final game of the 2011 season in which he tore his triceps. He had surgery on his back and triceps that off-season and then he came back strong in 2012 to make the Pro Bowl. He made 4 Pro Bowls and 2 All-Pro teams his first 5 years in the league, and he made the first two NFL top 100 lists ever done by NFL Network.
or derrick thomas or Deion sanders, or Steve Atwater or Andre RisonAtwater and Rison aren't in the same class as the others mentioned. Good players, not all-time greats. Rison wound up on the Packers playing with Favre anyway.
I don't think the answer is that you NEED at high-pick QB or that you need to start on the line. If you're picking #1, your TEAM sucks and you should ALWAYS trade down. Always, forever, no matter what. And you get #1 picks from someone next year and the year after that. Hell, trade down multiple times if you can. Your entire roster needs an upgrade.So you're telling me the Colts- who sucked- should've traded down and passed on Peyton Manning? Or the Broncos who sucked- shouldn't have made the trade to go to #1 and gotten John Elway? Or the Cowboys should've traded down and passed on Troy Aikman?
Atwater and Rison aren't in the same class as the others mentioned. Good players, not all-time greats. Rison wound up on the Packers playing with Favre anyway. We know, the point is almost anyone would be a better choice than Mandarich, lol.Bears pick up Donnell Woolford and Trace Armstrong. Good players.
DT or Deion Sanders wouldn't have the same impact as Barry Sanders + Brett Favre. When have we ever seen the best QB and the best RB in the entire league on the same team in the same backfield together? Favre won the MVP in '95, '96, and '97 and that was without playing with a RB in the same universe as Barry Sanders. The two of them together in the 90's would've destroyed the entire league. Packers would've gotten more than 1 Super Bowl.
The reason we don't see this is because there's only one ball. There aren't enough plays to go around to have the best QB and RB.
So you're telling me the Colts- who sucked- should've traded down and passed on Peyton Manning? Or the Broncos who sucked- shouldn't have made the trade to go to #1 and gotten John Elway? Or the Cowboys should've traded down and passed on Troy Aikman?Well you're Monday-morning QBing at an elite level here, but yeah.
If you've got a chance to take a franchise QB- you take him imo. Passing on a great QB like that at #1 is just as bad as taking a shitty one like Heath Shuler or Tim Couch high.
Boy, what Dallas did in '89 was ODD. Have the #1 pick, take their QB in Aikman. Cool. But then they go and draft QB Steve Walsh in the '89 Supplemental draft in June. So they go 1-15 in Aikman's rookie year. Great, we get the #1 pick again! Nuh-uh. You forfeit it when you drafted ANOTHER QB after taking a QB #1 overall.It was a brilliant move because they traded a guy who really didn't have the talent to play at a high level in the NFL in Walsh for a package of high picks. They fleeced the Saints with that Walsh trade. That trade and the Herschel Walker trade where they fleeced the Vikings set the stage for Dallas to become arguably the best dynasty the NFL has ever seen. I still think those 90's Cowboys teams with Jimmy Johnson were the best football teams top to bottom that I have ever seen. Oh and the Charles Haley trade with the 49ers.
What in the holy hell?!?
The funny thing is, if Dallas retained that #1 pick in 1990, they probably would have drafted Blair Thomas.
As a kid in Wisconsin during this draft, I was always indifferent towards the Packers but legitimately excited they looked like they were going to get Barry Sanders. That was such a buzzkill watching that draft.Selfishly I am glad that Barry played in Detroit and I got to witness him.
As an aside, my then 11 year old younger brother ordered Kipers draft guide before this draft. Kiper clearly sells his mailing list and around this time we got some adult movie solicitations sent to the house. I remember my Dad calling up Kipers order phone number to scold them about this. Iirc it was his wife or girlfriend that helps Kiper and she was very apologetic and embarrassed about it. Gee, dirty old men aren't the only ones ordering your guide Mel.
I mean, that's an example of something, but in the end, that Super QB threw a pick down 10 with less than 12 minutes to go in the Super Bowl. And if that running game had been all that dominant and that Chiefs defense had been all that mediocre, then SF can probably grind out more than a first down on the two biggest possessions that could've sealed a title.I just meant that both strategies get used in the NFL and both have worked. It's probably easier to maintain a good team around one quarterback as opposed to trying to keep a group of guys, given the salary restrictions in the NFL. Since 2001 there have been three Super Bowls that didn't include Peyton Manning, Tom Brady, or Ben Roethlisberger.
All pieces work in concert. A great QB certianly helps. But the Chiefs are a cut above in terms of thermonuclear offenses (and they have a lot of good pieces). It was but a few years ago that Old Manning edged a team with an MVP QB. And the year before that, Manning had put up the greatest QB season we'd seen, and it ended with 8 points in the Super Bowl.
A good QB remains super valuable, but it's not quite that be-all/end-all unless the QB has a mess of stupid good playmakers and a great coach and that last little burst he needs to close it out.
Since 2001 there have been three Super Bowls that didn't include Peyton Manning, Tom Brady, or Ben Roethlisberger.That's insane.
That's insane.I know, and one was last year and that included Mahomes, who will probably be around for a while.
That's insane.To be honest, I'm a little surprised it's not more. I'm struggling to think of the other two times.
To be honest, I'm a little surprised it's not more. I'm struggling to think of the other two times.02 with Bucs Raiders and 12 with Ravens 49ers
When you have three of the four best players, at the most important position in sports, playing the entire duration of that time in the same conference, and staying mostly healthy, I think it's at least mildly expected. How many times since 1999 has the NBA Finals not included the Lakers, Spurs or Warriors?
On a similar line, the commercials during this 89 Draft are insulting. Copper-fit Energy socks and a weight-gaining pill. FFSI don't think copper fit was invented back in 89
| 1 | Bengals | QB Joe Burrow, LSU |
| 2 | Redskins | DE CHASE YOUNG, OHIO STATE |
| 3 | Lions | CB JEFF OKUDAH, OHIO STATE |
| 4 | Giants | T TRISTAN WIRFS, IOWA |
| 5 | Dolphins | QB Tua Tagovailoa, Alabama |
| 6 | Chargers | OLB Isaiah Simmons, Clemson |
| 7 | Panthers | DT Derrick Brown, Auburn |
| 8 | Cardinals | T Jedrick Wills Jr., Alabama |
| 9 | Jaguars | WR Jerry Jeudy, Alabama |
| 10 | Browns | T Andrew Thomas, Georgia |
| 11 | Jets | WR CeeDee Lamb, Oklahoma |
| 12 | Raiders | WR Henry Ruggs III, Alabama |
| 13 | 49ers (SF) | DT Javon Kinlaw, South Carolina |
| 14 | Buccaneers | T Mekhi Becton, Louisville |
| 15 | Broncos | CB C.J. Henderson, Florida |
| 16 | Falcons | OLB K'Lavon Chaisson, LSU |
| 17 | Cowboys | S Xavier McKinney, Alabama |
| 18 | Dolphins (PIT) | ILB Patrick Queen, LSU |
| 19 | Chargers (LV) (CHI) | QB Justin Herbert, Oregon |
| 20 | Jaguars (LAR) | S Grant Delpit, LSU |
| 21 | Eagles | ILB Kenneth Murray, Oklahoma |
| 22 | Vikings (BUF) | WR Justin Jefferson, LSU |
| 23 | Patriots | QB Jordan Love, Utah State |
| 24 | Saints | CB Trevon Diggs, Alabama |
| 25 | Vikings | DT Ross Blacklock, TCU |
| 26 | Dolphins (HOU) | RB D'Andre Swift, Georgia |
| 27 | Seahawks | DE YETUR GROSS-MATOS, PENN STATE |
| 28 | Ravens | OLB ZACK BAUN, WISCONSIN |
| 29 | Titans | DE A.J. EPENESA, IOWA |
| 30 | Packers | WR Tee Higgins, Clemson |
| 31 | 49ers | CB Kristian Fulton, LSU |
| 32 | Chiefs | CB A.J. Terrell, Clemson |
Has there ever been a bad team (for years) that drafted a Number One QB and turned into a very good team year after year?Payton Manning
Has there ever been a bad team (for years) that drafted a Number One QB and turned into a very good team year after year?It's all hit and miss. The Bengals drafted two tackles with their first two picks in 2015. Neither are currently on the team and they are drafting first overall
I know the Falcons drafted Matt Ryan, a pretty good QB, and had some good years (and bad). They also got a few other pieces like Julio.
If you have a bad team, consistently, for a decade, where do you start? Joe Burrow? Or three linemen?
Payton ManningIndy was bad for two years and then a low-end playoff team the two years before that. So technically bad "for years," but only by the barest definition of it.
But, to your point, there aren't really examples in either direction. When the Chiefs won last year, OT Eric Fisher (2013) became the first #1 overall pick to win the Super Bowl with the team that drafted him since Manning.
Prior to Manning, Orlando Pace (1997) did it. Drew Bledsoe (1993) technically did it, but wasn't the starting QB anymore when he did. Russell Maryland (1991) is the only other one in the free agency era.
Troy Aikman, Ed Jones, Terry Bradshaw, Bubba Smith and Paul Hornung in the pre-free agency era
If drafting strategy is hit or miss, every team should regress to a mean over time. But we see some teams pretty consistently near the top for years, and vice versa.We do, except for the ones with good quarterbacks
Detroit and Atlanta have had apparently good QBs and rather sporadic successes.The problem with both is that they lined up with the old salary structure where the top picks sucked up your whole cap.
Has there ever been a bad team (for years) that drafted a Number One QB and turned into a very good team year after year?Colts were terrible for years, had the #1 pick. They took Peyton Manning. They were 3-13 in Peyton's rookie year, and then the very next year in 1999 they went 13-3 and went on a run for a decade with Manning where they won 10+ games every year and went to a ton of playoff games and a couple of Super Bowls.
I know the Falcons drafted Matt Ryan, a pretty good QB, and had some good years (and bad). They also got a few other pieces like Julio.
If you have a bad team, consistently, for a decade, where do you start? Joe Burrow? Or three linemen?
It was a brilliant move because they traded a guy who really didn't have the talent to play at a high level in the NFL in Walsh for a package of high picks. They fleeced the Saints with that Walsh trade. That trade and the Herschel Walker trade where they fleeced the Vikings set the stage for Dallas to become arguably the best dynasty the NFL has ever seen. I still think those 90's Cowboys teams with Jimmy Johnson were the best football teams top to bottom that I have ever seen. Oh and the Charles Haley trade with the 49ers.I think you'd more call it a brilliant outcome than a brilliant move. They still traded a first rounder (one that turned out to be the No. 1 overall pick) for a quarterback who was not good so they could have a battle for the starting spot. Now to their credit, they found someone very stupid to overpay for him, but it's at least worth noting the process.
Drafting Aikman and making 3 trades turned the Cowboys into a dynasty.
Yeah, sporadic success, meaning inconsistent performance for whatever reason, though Detroit has been fairly consistent.Detroit has been fairly consistently bad.
Even Manziel couldn't make Cleveland good.
Living in Cincy I would in the past pay a bit of attention to their team and they seemed always to draft some high draft pick QB who flopped. It was predictable. Ryan Leaf I think one was. I started to think perhaps the "issue" was not with the QB. And yes, they have a major front office problem too.
Colts were terrible for years, had the #1 pick. They took Peyton Manning. They were 3-13 in Peyton's rookie year, and then the very next year in 1999 they went 13-3 and went on a run for a decade with Manning where they won 10+ games every year and went to a ton of playoff games and a couple of Super Bowls.The year before going 3-13 to get the No. 1 pick, the Colts made the playoffs.
Huh, I thought everyone agreed that Manziel was a generational talent sure thing in the NFL, better than Joe Burrow by leaps and bounds.I'm assuming that was in jest.Because Browns Fans sounded like a cat getting pulled into a fan belt when he was picked
Huh, I thought everyone agreed that Manziel was a generational talent sure thing in the NFL, better than Joe Burrow by leaps and bounds.I don't know of anyone who thought of him like that at the time. The Browns were largely made fun of for drafting him in the 1st round.
My mock draft (with trades)
FIRST ROUND
1 Bengals QB Joe Burrow, LSU 2 Redskins DE CHASE YOUNG, OHIO STATE 3 Lions CB JEFF OKUDAH, OHIO STATE 4 Giants T TRISTAN WIRFS, IOWA 5 Dolphins QB Tua Tagovailoa, Alabama 6 Chargers OLB Isaiah Simmons, Clemson 7 Panthers DT Derrick Brown, Auburn 8 Cardinals T Jedrick Wills Jr., Alabama 9 Jaguars WR Jerry Jeudy, Alabama 10 Browns T Andrew Thomas, Georgia 11 Jets WR CeeDee Lamb, Oklahoma 12 Raiders WR Henry Ruggs III, Alabama 13 49ers (SF) DT Javon Kinlaw, South Carolina 14 Buccaneers T Mekhi Becton, Louisville 15 Broncos CB C.J. Henderson, Florida 16 Falcons OLB K'Lavon Chaisson, LSU 17 Cowboys S Xavier McKinney, Alabama 18 Dolphins (PIT) ILB Patrick Queen, LSU 19 Chargers (LV) (CHI) QB Justin Herbert, Oregon 20 Jaguars (LAR) S Grant Delpit, LSU 21 Eagles ILB Kenneth Murray, Oklahoma 22 Vikings (BUF) WR Justin Jefferson, LSU 23 Patriots QB Jordan Love, Utah State 24 Saints CB Trevon Diggs, Alabama 25 Vikings DT Ross Blacklock, TCU 26 Dolphins (HOU) RB D'Andre Swift, Georgia 27 Seahawks DE YETUR GROSS-MATOS, PENN STATE 28 Ravens OLB ZACK BAUN, WISCONSIN 29 Titans DE A.J. EPENESA, IOWA 30 Packers WR Tee Higgins, Clemson 31 49ers CB Kristian Fulton, LSU 32 Chiefs CB A.J. Terrell, Clemson
Trades:
Raiders trade #19 pick to Chargers for 2nd Round (#37), 3rd Round (#71) and 4th Round (#112) picks
The year before going 3-13 to get the No. 1 pick, the Colts made the playoffs.Colts record in the 90's.
The year before that, they were tied for the fourth-best record in the AFC (not a great record) and had a lead in the AFC title game with two minutes left. They were like a play (either a dropped hail mary or dropped interception) from going to the Super Bowl.
So, no, not really terrible for years. Pretty not good for the years before almost making the Super Bowl, but that's because they drafted a can't-miss QB No. 1 and it didn't go well.
Colts record in the 90's.I mean, they were literally mediocre more than half time time. But if being dogshit accounts for more than half the outcomes, then yes, they, along with more than half the teams were dogshit.
1990: 7-9
1991: 1-15
1992: 9-7
1993: 4-12
1994: 8-8
1995: 9-7
1996: 9-7
1997: 3-13
Yeah, I'd say they were pretty much dogshit in the 90s. In those 8 seasons, they never once had double digit wins, only had winning seasons 3 times, only made the playoffs twice, and never once won their division. And all 3 of their "winning" seasons were 9-7. Pretty lame.
In fact the ONLY time the Colts won double digit games in a season or won their division in that entire decade of the 1990's was in 1999, Peyton Manning's second year in which the Colts went 13-3 and won the AFC East.
The irony of all this is that we're talking about No. 1 QBs, and the irony is that this run for the Colts actually started with taking a "can't-miss" super talented QB. This "dogshit" is decidedly the product of a guy who was supposed to be a franchise QB.Jeff George was a mental patient. I don't know if there was a bigger headcase to ever come into the NFL. That was a literal case of million dollar arm, ten cent head. I think only a handful of guys had better arms than Jeff George in NFL history. Maybe just Elway and Marino. He had a quick release with a ton of velocity. Could just effortlessly flick his wrist and the ball goes 60-70 yards on a rope.
Yeah, I'd say they were pretty much dogshit in the 90s. In those 8 seasons, they never once had double digit wins, only had winning seasons 3 times, only made the playoffs twice, and never once won their division. And all 3 of their "winning" seasons were 9-7. Pretty lame.Well, in a high-parity league like the NFL, for 5 of 8 seasons to finish within a game of .500 isn't "dogshit". It's not great by any stretch, but not "dogshit". In all 5 of those seasons they finished in the top half of their division.
For dogshit, look at the Browns over the last 10 years from 2010-2019Ya had to go there didn't you,bad enough I have to live it.Don't need memos in the off season,fwiw I still have my liver
Jeff George was a mental patient. I don't know if there was a bigger headcase to ever come into the NFL.I don't remember,did he do something blindingly ignorant ......off the field.Like Manzeil,Winston or Roethlisberger?
| 33 | Bengals | T Josh Jones, Houston |
| 34 | Colts (WAS) | DT Neville Gallimore, Oklahoma |
| 35 | Lions | WR Brandon Aiyuk, Arizona State |
| 36 | Giants | S ANTOINE WINFIELD JR., MINNESOTA |
| 37 | Raiders (LAC) | RB JONATHAN TAYLOR, WISCONSIN |
| 38 | Panthers | T Austin Jackson, USC |
| 39 | Dolphins | C CESAR RUIZ, MICHIGAN |
| 40 | Texans (ARI) | DT Justin Madubuike, Texas A&M |
| 41 | Browns | CB Jeff Gladney, TCU |
| 42 | Jaguars | CB Jaylon Johnson, Utah |
| 43 | Bears (LV) | WR Jalen Reagor, TCU |
| 44 | Colts | WR Laviska Shenault Jr., Colorado |
| 45 | Buccaneers | RB J.K DOBBINS, OHIO STATE |
| 46 | Broncos | WR Denzel Mims, Baylor |
| 47 | Falcons | DT Marlon Davidson, Auburn |
| 48 | Jets | OLB Terrell Lewis, Alabama |
| 49 | Steelers | C Lloyd Cushenberry III, LSU |
| 50 | Bears | CB DAMON ARNETTE, OHIO STATE |
| 51 | Cowboys | TE Cole Kmet, Notre Dame |
| 52 | Rams | T Ezra Cleveland, Boise State |
| 53 | Eagles | WR K.J. HAMLER, PENN STATE |
| 54 | Bills | RB Clyde Edwards-Helaire, LSU |
| 55 | Ravens (NE) (ATL) | CB Cameron Dantzler, Mississippi State |
| 56 | Dolphins (NO) | T Isaiah Wilson, Georgia |
| 57 | Rams (HOU) | CB Bryce Hall, Virginia |
| 58 | Vikings | T Prince Tega Wanogho, Auburn |
| 59 | Seahawks | OLB Julian Okwara, Notre Dame |
| 60 | Ravens | RB Cam Akers, Florida State |
| 61 | Titans | QB Jacob Eason, Washington |
| 62 | Packers | OLB Curtis Weaver, Boise State |
| 63 | Chiefs (SF) | WR Michael Pittman Jr., USC |
| 64 | Buccaneers (SEA) (KC) | S Kyle Dugger, Lenoir-Rhyne |
is .390 winning % really that much better than .296? Because both seem kinda horrific to me.IMHO the bigger difference is that the Colts were a competitive team 62.5% of the seasons, and the other 37.5% of the time they were really bad.
You can't just pretend Manning is the reason the Colts were suddenly good. It ignores EVERYTHING else they had done, lol. Hey, guess what? They sucked in Manning's first year and only got good when they had Edgerrin James. Why doesn't anyone say that?He also threw for 4,100+ yards and completed 62.5% to go along with those 26 TD's vs 15 INT's. That was a phenomenal season in 1999. He made the Pro Bowl with those stats. Peyton was #2 in completion %, #3 in passing yards, and #3 in TD passes in the entire leauge that season. The league didn't explode into a passing leauge where everyone had silly stats until around 2005- when the NFL started to make rule changes and call PI more heavily precisely because Peyton Manning and Tony Dungy bitched to the rules committee over Ty Law consistently physically punking Marvin Harrison and the Colts' other WR's.
Manning cut down on his INTs that 2nd year, but he still didn't have a great season. 26 TD and 15 INTs isn't remarkable.
You can't ignore drafting Marvin Harrison, pre-Manning. That was a good call. Their 1st and 2nd round picks the year before taking Manning first were both on offensive tackles. Hmm, I guess the OL is important.
But better than all of that...guess who was the only other QB to throw a pass for the Colts in 1999? STEVE WALSH! :88:
The Pats were constantly holding,contacting,chopping colts recievers.It was a mugging some of those play off games.Anyway what did Jeff George do besides not live up to the hype?He was basically an egomaniac who fought with all of his coaches and players. Excerpt from an article which ranked Jeff George as the #3 locker-room cancer in NFL history...
| 65 | Bengals | OLB JOSH UCHE, MICHIGAN |
| 66 | Redskins | TE Adam Trautman, Dayton |
| 67 | Lions | S Ashtyn Davis, California |
| 68 | Jets (NYG) | CB Noah Igbinoghene, Auburn |
| 69 | Panthers | S Jeremy Chinn, Southern Illinois |
| 70 | Dolphins | T Lucas Niang, TCU |
| 71 | Raiders (LAC) | CB Tony Pride Jr., Notre Dame |
| 72 | Cardinals | OLB Troy Dye, Oregon |
| 73 | Jaguars | TE Hunter Bryant, Washington |
| 74 | Browns | ILB MALIK HARRISON, OHIO STATE |
| 75 | Colts | DE Jonathan Greenard, Florida |
| 76 | Seahawks (TB) | C TYLER BIADASZ, WISCONSIN |
| 77 | Broncos | DT Jordan Elliott, Missouri |
| 78 | Falcons | DE Bradlee Anae, Utah |
| 79 | Jets | RB Zack Moss, Utah |
| 80 | Raiders | OLB Akeem Davis-Gaither, Appalachian State |
| 81 | Raiders (CHI) | DE Jabari Zuniga, Florida |
| 82 | Cowboys | WR Chase Claypool, Notre Dame |
| 83 | Broncos (PIT) | G Robert Hunt, UL Lafayette |
| 84 | Rams | DT Raekwon Davis, Alabama |
| 85 | Lions (PHI) | QB Jake Fromm, Georgia |
| 86 | Bills | WR DONOVAN PEOPLES-JONES, MICHIGAN |
| 87 | Patriots | WR Devin Duvernay, Texas |
| 88 | Saints | OLB Darrell Taylor, Tennessee |
| 89 | Vikings | G Damien Lewis, LSU |
| 90 | Texans | OLB Jordyn Brooks, Texas Tech |
| 91 | Raiders (HOU) (SEA) | G Netane Muti, Fresno State |
| 92 | Ravens | DT DAVON HAMILTON, OHIO STATE |
| 93 | Titans | T Matt Peart, Connecticut |
| 94 | Colts (GB) | QB Jalen Hurts, Oklahoma |
| 95 | Broncos (SF) | ILB Logan Wilson, Wyoming |
| 96 | Chiefs | CB Amik Robertson, Louisiana Tech |
| 97 | Browns (HOU) | G JONAH JACKSON, OHIO STATE |
| 98 | Patriots | TE Albert Okwuegbunam, Missouri |
| 99 | Giants | OLB Anfernee Jennings, Alabama |
| 100 | Patriots | G BEN BREDESON, MICHIGAN |
| 101 | Seahawks | WR Antonio Gandy-Golden, Liberty |
| 102 | Buccaneers (PIT) | C Matt Hennessy, Temple |
| 103 | Eagles | S Terrell Burgess, Utah |
| 104 | Rams | DE Khalid Kareem, Notre Dame |
| 105 | Vikings | CB Darnay Holmes, UCLA |
| 106 | Rams | DT James Lynch, Baylor |
Jeff George was a mental patient. I don't know if there was a bigger headcase to ever come into the NFL. That was a literal case of million dollar arm, ten cent head. I think only a handful of guys had better arms than Jeff George in NFL history. Maybe just Elway and Marino. He had a quick release with a ton of velocity. Could just effortlessly flick his wrist and the ball goes 60-70 yards on a rope.Yep, went in the spot Troy Aikman did.
Didn't have a great arm, but it wasn't bad.Um what!?? Troy Aikman had one of the best arms the NFL has ever seen.
Yep, went in the spot Troy Aikman did.It's the Detroit Lions. No one would've made them contenders. I think Aikman's career in Detroit would look similar to Matt Stafford's. Elite level QB that can't go anywhere in a crappy organization.
(Also ironically, Aikman is kinda the best case scenario of being awesome everywhere and having that help carry the QB. He struck me as a guy who could've gone to the Sanders Lions, and it's not like they would've suddenly become contenders)
Mhyperbole21I think you exaggerate ...
not in my opinionJeff George had a stronger arm, but Aikman had a rocket himself. Where Aikman has the big edge on Jeff George is accuracy.
but, I'm a cowboy hater
Jeff George had a better arm
are you saying Troy is top ten all-time?
When I was a kid and dinosaurs roamed the Earth, teams seemed to have one QB for ages and ages. Johnny U. Bart Starr. Y.A. Title. Fran Tarkenton. Roman Gabriel. Manziel. They personified their teams. How good were those guys by modern standards?Different time, different era, different rules, different type of athletes. QB's and WR's could literally get assaulted. If defensive players pulled that stuff today they'd probably get arrested by the police.
I don't recall such a surplus of really good QBs coming out of CFB in one year either.
When I was a kid and dinosaurs roamed the Earth, teams seemed to have one QB for ages and ages. Johnny U. Bart Starr. Y.A. Title. Fran Tarkenton. Roman Gabriel. Manziel. They personified their teams. How good were those guys by modern standards?and back then, those QBs were referred to as Field Generals, they called the plays.
I don't recall such a surplus of really good QBs coming out of CFB in one year either.
Those QBs "back in the day" played a long time with little protections. Why is that? They were tough hombres? DLs weren't as nasty? More running?Far FAR fewer pass attempts.
Would you "guess" Joe Burrow is as close to a "sure thing" as we've seen in a while? (Other than being a Bengal?)Not at all.
If Burrow is not as close to a sure thing as we've seen in a while (call it ten years), I'd pass on him. Aside from Maziel, who was the best "sure thing" at QB in the past 20 years?Manziel was never considered that.
I lived in Cincinnati long enough to pay a bit of attention to the Bungles. Their recent history is what I'm thinking about being BAD for a prolonged period of time.
1991-2002. Their best season was 8-8. They then crawled up to being decent at times, 7 playoff appearances, all loses.
In 1973, he led the NFL with 3,219 yards and 23 touchdown passes, for which he was awarded the NFL Comeback Player of the Year Award (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NFL_Comeback_Player_of_the_Year_Award). As of the end of the 2016 NFL season, he still holds the Rams' career records for touchdown passes (154), passes attempted (3,313), and wins by a starting quarterback (74).Was never a Rams' fan, but I really Like Roman Gabriel, also loved the fearsome foursome.
That is Roman Gabriel who started in 1962 (not as starting QB). They didn't play as many games back then of course.
Looks like Gronk coming out of retirement to reunite with Brady in Tampa.Holy smokes.
I'd goAnd I’d say they were all really damn good, maybe even great.
1. Luck
2. Stafford
3. Palmer
Not an easy exercise, because you have to ignore what they did in the NFL. I know some of us are utterly incapable of the task. :57:
When I was a kid and dinosaurs roamed the Earth, teams seemed to have one QB for ages and ages. Johnny U. Bart Starr. Y.A. Title. Fran Tarkenton. Roman Gabriel.I remember some of those dinosaurs. Y.A. Tittle retired right before I got interested, and suddenly the Giants were mediocrities. There were some other guys too. John Brodie. Frank Ryan. Bobby Douglas. Sonny Jurgenson. They did sort of personify their teams. Except for Ryan. Jim Brown personified that team. Same thing with Bobby Douglas and Gale Sayers.Manziel. They personified their teams. How good were those guys by modern standards?
I don't recall such a surplus of really good QBs coming out of CFB in one year either.
Was never a Rams' fan, but I really Like Roman Gabriel, also loved the fearsome foursome.Same here.
Luck/Stafford/Palmer - They all were top tier QBs, right (put aside injuries). Height, strong arms, smart, etc.I wouldn't quite put Burrow or Tua in that group to be honest. Luck, Stafford, and Palmer were pretty much physical specimens.
Is Burrow in that group IYO? Near that? One year isn't enough? Is Tu'a?
If the group of "can't miss" prospects really never missed, that is a something I think. Put injuries aside.
Burrow did some things last year that impressed me a lot on broken plays. So has Tu'a.
I remember some of those dinosaurs. Y.A. Tittle retired right before I got interested, and suddenly the Giants were mediocrities. There were some other guys too. John Brodie. Frank Ryan. Bobby Douglas. Sonny Jurgenson. They did sort of personify their teams. Except for Ryan. Jim Brown personified that team. Same thing with Bobby Douglas and Gale Sayers.It's interesting how they were the face of their team basically. Those were some tough hombres probably not getting paid very much.
Holy smokes.Super Bowl in Tampa this year
That WR/TE room is officially insane.
Super Bowl in Tampa this yearI’ll wait to see who they draft and if they keep OJ Howard. OJ Howard is still on his rookie deal so he’s cheap. With Gronk’s injury history and Brady’s love of the 2 TE set- would be a huge mistake to get rid of Howard.
I’ll wait to see who they draft and if they keep OJ Howard. OJ Howard is still on his rookie deal so he’s cheap. With Gronk’s injury history and Brady’s love of the 2 TE set- would be a huge mistake to get rid of Howard.Same wavelength, but I have Thomas and Taylor off the board when they come up, but getting Mekhi Becton and JK Dobbins instead
I’m not ready to go SB bound yet. But if they can land say Andrew Thomas in the 1st round- that’s an instant starter at one of the tackle spots on the OL. And this draft will be packed with great athletes at the RB and WR position that should be available in the 2nd - 5th rounds.
IF they could pull off say Andrew Thomas in the 1st, Jonathan Taylor or D’Andre Swift in the 2nd, and a slot WR like KJ Hamler in the 3rd or 4th rd - they’d become the clear team to beat in the NFC. It would be an offense that is impossible to stop.
Ehhh, guys? TB allowed the 4th-most points in the league last year. There are 2 sides of the ball, lol.In all the advanced adjusted defensive stats Tampa was among the elite defenses in the league.
You tend to make a good point (your last paragraph), but sully it with hyperbole (your first sentence). There was nothing "elite" about TB's defense last year. They were good/not great vs the run.I don’t think you know what the word hyperbole means.
And my point remains - there's some silly talk regarding the Bucs all of a sudden. Got Brady. Great. Gronk, too. Cool.
There are still 2 sides of the ball.
I don't remember,did he do something blindingly ignorant ......off the field.Like Manzeil,Winston or Roethlisberger?I wasn't around Indy then but he has a reputation for being a bit off, short fuse. He did have an underage party w his kids when he supplied alcohol , a classic don't you know who I am scenario ensued.
Imagine these guys now, having offseason jobs. Bryce Harper pitching socks at JC Penney. Aaron Rodgers helping you at Ace Hardware....That's one of my favorite things when reading old biographies of players. Their old gigs, selling shoes, driving delivery trucks. My favorite is when a young wet behind the ears Rogers Hornsby was told by his manager he should be sent back to the farm (meaning the minors), thats what Hornsby did. He went to work at a farm in the off-season and got real big and strong. He may have been known to be dim and cantankerous, but makes total sense.
I hear you on the advanced metrics, I love stats, and they're genuinely a better way to rate things. BUT, it doesn't change the scoreboard in your favor, either.Jameis threw seven pick sixes last year. That's 42 points against the defense while they were watching from the sidelines
| 107 | Bengals | G Logan Stenberg, Kentucky |
| 108 | Redskins | WR Van Jefferson, Florida |
| 109 | Lions | DE Alton Robinson, Syracuse |
| 110 | Giants | WR K.J. HILL, OHIO STATE |
| 111 | Texans (MIA) | WR Bryan Edwards, South Carolina |
| 112 | Raiders (LAC) | S Brandon Jones, Texas |
| 113 | Panthers | G Solomon Kindley, Georgia |
| 114 | Cardinals | C Nick Harris, Washington |
| 115 | Browns | DT Rashard Lawrence, LSU |
| 116 | Jaguars | DT Jason Strowbridge, North Carolina |
| 117 | Seahawks (TB) | T Saahdiq Charles, LSU |
| 118 | Broncos | DE KENNY WILLEKES, MICHIGAN STATE |
| 119 | Falcons | RB A.J. Dillon, Boston College |
| 120 | Jets | G John Simpson, Oregon |
| 121 | Raiders | DT Leki Fotu, Utah |
| 122 | Packers (IND) | TE Harrison Bryant, Florida Atlantic |
| 123 | Cowboys | CB A.J. Green, Oklahoma State |
| 124 | Steelers | G Shane Lemieux, Oregon |
| 125 | Patriots (CHI) | OLB Willie Gay Jr., Mississippi State |
| 126 | Rams | RB ANTHONY MCFARLAND JR., MARYLAND |
| 127 | Eagles | G Hakeem Adenji, Kansas |
| 128 | Bills | DT Larrell Murchison, NC State |
| 129 | Ravens (NE) | WR Collin Johnson, Texas |
| 130 | Saints | WR TYLER JOHNSON, MINNESOTA |
| 131 | Cardinals (HOU) | TE BRYCEN HOPKINS, PURDUE |
| 132 | Vikings | S K'Von Wallace, Clemson |
| 133 | Seahawks | RB Ke'Shawn Vaughn, Vanderbilt |
| 134 | Ravens | ILB Jacob Phillips, LSU |
| 135 | Steelers (MIA)(TEN) | T Jack Driscoll, Auburn |
| 136 | Packers | T Ben Bartch, St. John's (MN) |
| 137 | Jaguars (SF) (DEN) | DE Nick Coe, Auburn |
| 138 | Chiefs | DE Alex Highsmith, Charlotte |
| 139 | Steelers (TB) | WR Gabriel Davis, Central Florida |
| 140 | Jaguars (CHI) | OLB Davion Taylor, Colorado |
| 141 | Dolphins | S Julian Blackmon, Utah |
| 142 | Redskins | T Trey Adams, Washington |
| 143 | Falcons (BAL) | CB MICHAEL OJEMUDIA, IOWA |
| 144 | Seahawks | DT McTelvin Agim, Arkansas |
| 145 | Eagles | CB LAMAR JACKSON, NEBRASKA |
| 146 | Eagles | QB Anthony Gordon, Washington State |
Jameis threw seven pick sixes last year. That's 42 points against the defense while they were watching from the sidelinesOkay, that moves them up from 29th to 24th. Fantastic.
Same wavelength, but I have Thomas and Taylor off the board when they come up, but getting Mekhi Becton and JK Dobbins insteadAs long as they get a legit starting tackle in the 1st and a really solid RB in the 2nd or 3rd- they will basically transform that offense into something that is almost impossible to stop. Dobbins would be a great fit for any offense, he's being slept on by so many people. And Becton might have the most upside of any tackle in the draft.
my thing with burrow is the consistency. last year was beyond phenomenal and we've seen he can be elite in decision making and reading a defense. and he did it for the entire season and against the best cfb has to offer, so those are major points for him. but it was only 1 season with at least a couple more we've seen when it was just ok. guys grow, and he certainly did, but the only worry i'd have about him is how much was that tied to his coaches. arm talent, size, etc is all nice, but it's his head/reads that make the qb. brady is a perfect example and manning towards end of his career arm was shot, but he was still effective if not great. burrow has more than enough arm talent to make it, just can he keep up the insane decision making and reads he did last season. dude was fun to watch pick apart defenses though.see wonderlic scores
tua, on the other hand, was remarkably consistent in his picking apart defenses for his entire career. his biggest worry is obvious to everyone... health.
FOURTH ROUNDSpeilman isn't the brightest and Zimmer loves defensive picks, but the Vikings are strong at Safety
132 Vikings S K'Von Wallace, Clemson 133 Seahawks RB Ke'Shawn Vaughn, Vanderbilt 134 Ravens ILB Jacob Phillips, LSU 135 Steelers (MIA)(TEN) T Jack Driscoll, Auburn 136 Packers T Ben Bartch, St. John's (MN) 137 Jaguars (SF) (DEN) DE Nick Coe, Auburn 138 Chiefs DE Alex Highsmith, Charlotte 139 Steelers (TB) WR Gabriel Davis, Central Florida 140 Jaguars (CHI) OLB Davion Taylor, Colorado 141 Dolphins S Julian Blackmon, Utah 142 Redskins T Trey Adams, Washington 143 Falcons (BAL) CB MICHAEL OJEMUDIA, IOWA 144 Seahawks DT McTelvin Agim, Arkansas 145 Eagles CB LAMAR JACKSON, NEBRASKA 146 Eagles QB Anthony Gordon, Washington State
see wonderlic scoressaw them. and?
| 147 | Bengals | ILB MARKUS BAILEY, PURDUE |
| 148 | Panthers (WAS) | WR Quartney Davis, Texas A&N |
| 149 | Lions | RB Lamical Perine, Florida |
| 150 | Giants | DE D.J. Wonnum, South Carolina |
| 151 | Chargers | ILB JOE BACHIE, MICHIGAN STATE |
| 152 | Panthers | CB LAVERT HILL, MICHIGAN |
| 153 | Dolphins (ARI)(MIA) | WR Isaiah Hodgins, Oregon State |
| 154 | Dolphins (PIT)(JAX) | DE Jonathan Garvin, Miami |
| 155 | Vikings (BUF)(CLE) | DE Trevis Gipson, Tulsa |
| 156 | 49ers (DEN) | WR Lynn Bowden Jr., Kentucky |
| 157 | Jaguars (BAL)(ATL) | C Darryl Williams, Mississippi State |
| 158 | Jets | WR James Proche, SMU |
| 159 | Chargers (LV) | RB Eno Benjamin, Arizona State |
| 160 | Packers (IND) | CB Essang Bassey, Wake Forest |
| 161 | Steelers (TB) | RB Antonio Gibson, Memphis |
| 162 | Redskins (SEA)(PIT) | T Alex Taylor, SC State |
| 163 | Bears | T Terence Steele, Texas Tech |
| 164 | Cowboys | DT RAEKWON WILLIAMS, MICHIGAN STATE |
| 165 | Jaguars (LAR) | ILB David Woodward, Utah State |
| 166 | Lions (PHI) | ILB Evan Weaver, California |
| 167 | Bills | CB JOSIAH SCOTT, MICHIGAN STATE |
| 168 | Eagles (NE) | OLB KHALEKE HUDSON, MICHIGAN |
| 169 | Saints | G Justin Herron, Wake Forest |
| 170 | Ravens (MIN) | G Danny Pinter, Ball State |
| 171 | Texans | RB Darrynton Evans, Appalachian State |
| 172 | Patriots (DET)(SEA) | S J.R. Reed, Georgia |
| 173 | Dolphins (LAR)(BAL) | CB Harrison Hand, Temple |
| 174 | Titans | TE Thaddeus Moss, LSU |
| 175 | Broncos (GB) | S GENO STONE, IOWA |
| 176 | 49ers | S ANTOINE BROOKS JR., MARYLAND |
| 177 | Chiefs | OLB Justin Strnad, Wake Forest |
| 178 | Broncos | T Calvin Throckmorton, Oregon |
| 179 | Cowboys | OLB CAM BROWN, PENN STATE |
see wonderlic scoresDifferent animal picking apart NFL defenses,of course could have been a bad score.Factoring in health concerns though he's not 1st rd material IMO
I hear you on the advanced metrics, I love stats, and they're genuinely a better way to rate things. BUT, it doesn't change the scoreboard in your favor, either.I mean, PPG is a context-heavy stat at times, certianly when the offense commits a turnover 20 percent of the time.
Different animal picking apart NFL defenses,of course could have been a bad score.Factoring in health concerns though he's not 1st rd material IMOhe improved his score from a 13 while at Bama to a 19 for the combine
I mean, PPG is a context-heavy stat at times, certianly when the offense commits a turnover 20 percent of the time.I can buy this, sounds fair.
In a few more "tempo-free" stats, Tampa ranked:
6th in yards per play
A so-so 17th in point per drive
Sixth in average drive distance
Tied for sixth in red zone TD percentage allowed
First in opponents drives overall
So at the very least, that PPG is impacted a good bit. Who knows if that stays the case, but one can reasonably say Tommy inherits what very reasonably could be a good defense on the other side.
I can buy this, sounds fair.Reading and comprehension? I never once called them elite. I said they were among the elite in the advanced adjusted stats. Which, ya know, they are.
But Mdot1 can't help himself and has to call them elite.
Reading and comprehension? I never once called them elite. I said they were among the elite in the advanced adjusted stats. Which, ya know, they are.LOL, okay. That's totally different. I'm wrooooooong again.
When Burrow played UGA, he very often went to second and third receivers and made pinpoint throws for completions. We had them covered pretty well and had some pressure. Dissection. I was super impressed. That was a good defense he faced with a lot of players that will start in the NFL. It wasn't an NFL defense of course, nor scheme, but he was well prepared and made some incredible throws off balance.he did this in multiple games. dude was legit great this year in just about every facet. my only concern is if he'll do it again and without brady. he certainly can, probably even likely. but that's the only real question i have with him.
8pm central? Eastern?Generally Eastern Time folks think they're at the center of the universe, so they rarely clarify.
you'd think by checking ESPN.com it would be there at the top of the page
nope
Generally Eastern Time folks think they're at the center of the universe, so they rarely clarify.I try to avoid the Evil Empire, so I use CBS Sports during football season. It adjusts its schedule to show games in Central Time.
That said, I've found that ESPN in particular is able to detect my location and it always quotes me times in PT. So depending on whether ESPN can tell you're in CT, it might actually show you 7PM.
Still annoyed this thing doesn't start until 8 pm. It should start at 8 am and each pick should get half an hour.With a lot of these GMs and HCs being 60+ years old and relying on new-to-them technology for the draft, each pick may take that long, lol.
Still annoyed this thing doesn't start until 8 pm.Normally I'd agree but since I'm busy to at least 7:30 this works
Percy Harvin was certainly "special" in his early years with the VikingsYeah it’s an incredibly deep year for WR’s this draft. Which means less teams will probably be interested in Harvin than in a year where the draft for WRs was terrible.
I'd work him out and give him a chance
I'd guess there are plenty of kids in the draft that can run with the old man today
Generally Eastern Time folks think they're at the center of the universe, so they rarely clarify.I got so used to adjusting for eastern, it always throws me when I change time zones, especially when I'm home for a trip but check a time for a game when I'll be back.
That said, I've found that ESPN in particular is able to detect my location and it always quotes me times in PT. So depending on whether ESPN can tell you're in CT, it might actually show you 7PM.
Mecole Hardman is a player of this ilk who has done pretty well at KC. He ran a combine 4.33.What's crazy is he's not even the fastest guy on his own offense.
I'm a MAN! I'm 40!
Having lives in EST, CST and PST, I founds CST optimal for sports watching when I was in college, as I was more a late-night person. PST seems like the ideal in adulthood, when most everything is done by 10. I suppose it would be harder if you cared about morning news, since you're a little late to that game. EST is mostly crappy unless you cherish a long morning before certain sports.
I'm a MAN! I'm 40!I tend to burn it at both ends because I'm a junkie, and man, I would like all games to be done by 11:30 rather than 2:30.
(Well, 41...)
But actually I really like the west coast for sports. A lot of the Big Ten games, especially when you're a fan of a "lesser" team like Purdue, start at 9 AM out here. If I don't want to devote the entire day to football, I can be done with the games I care about by 12:30ish...
Then the high-end prime time game shows up at 5 PM. I'm likely getting settled down and cooking dinner by about that time, so I can watch that game and have it done well before bedtime.
I used to burn the candle at both ends, but the way it works out for me these days is that it's easier to get up with the sun than to go to bed late.
| 180 | Bengals | WR Joe Reed, Virginia |
| 181 | Packers (DEN)(WAS) | DT ROBERT WINDSOR, PENN STATE |
| 182 | Lions | DT Benito Jones, Ole Miss |
| 183 | Giants | C Keith Ismael, San Diego State |
| 184 | Panthers | TE Colby Parkinson, Stanford |
| 185 | Browns (MIA) | S Alohi Gilman, Notre Dame |
| 186 | Raiders (LAC) | ILB Shaquille Quarterman, Miami |
| 187 | Cardinals (ARI)(CLE)(MIA) | WR QUINTEZ CEPHUS, WISCONSIN |
| 188 | Bills (CLE) | DE Trevon Hill, Miami |
| 189 | Jaguars | QB NATE STANLEY, IOWA |
| 190 | Eagles (ATL) | T Charlie Heck, North Carolina |
| 191 | Jets | T Colton McKivitz, West Virginia |
| 192 | Packers (LV) | ILB Francis Bernard, Utah |
| 193 | Titans (IND)(GB) | RB Joshua Kelley, UCLA |
| 194 | Steelers (TB) | OLB CARTER COUGHLIN, MINNESOTA |
| 195 | Patriots (DEN) | DT KHALIL DAVIS, NEBRASKA |
| 196 | Bears | OLB KAMAL MARTIN, MINNESOTA |
| 197 | Colts (MIA) (DAL) | TE Cheyenne O'Grady, Arkansas |
| 198 | Steelers | QB Steven Montez, Colorado |
| 199 | Rams | OLB Tanner Muse, Clemson |
| 200 | Bears (PHI) | G JON RUNYAN, MICHIGAN |
| 201 | Vikings (BUF) | QB James Morgan, FIU |
| 202 | Texans (NE)(ARI)(MIA) | CB Dane Jackson, Pittsburgh |
| 203 | Saints | QB Cole McDonald, Hawaii |
| 204 | Patriots (HOU) | DE Kendall Coleman, Syracuse |
| 205 | Vikings | OLB Casey Toohill, Stanford |
| 206 | Jaguars (SEA) | T Yasir Durant, Missouri |
| 207 | Bills (NE) (BAL) | ILB Mykal Walker, Fresno State |
| 208 | Packers (TEN) | G MICHAEL ONWENU, MICHIGAN |
| 209 | Packers | DE Chauncey Rivers, Mississippi State |
| 210 | 49ers | ILB Shaun Bradley, Temple |
| 211 | Jets (KC) | T Cameron Clark, Charlotte |
| 212 | Patriots | ILB Michael Divinity Jr., LSU |
| 213 | Patriots | RB James Robinson, Illinois State |
| 214 | Seahawks | G Kevin Dotson, UL Lafayette |
oh god Trey Wingo's voice is nails on chalkboard terrible to me but I don't get the NFL networkI can’t stand him either.
Before settling in for round one, I want to get this off my chest:This is a lazy hot take from someone that clearly hasn’t watched the guy play the game.
Tua is overrated and should NOT be drafted as a franchiser - Tua's injury history is concerning and nobody knows how effective he is behind an OL who can't keep his jersey clean or throwing to receivers who aren't significantly better against the secondary.
Wow, so far, this draft is all about the recruiting of Urban Meyer.Dude is an animal. No wonder Harbaugh keeps getting his dick kicked in every year.
lol, you're going to be incredulous this whole first round, aren't you?Yes. Tua was the best player there. And he just went to the Dolphins.
Yeah, the 2 Giants on-sites look like where hostages are kept. WTF?Lmao. That’s a good description.
Or they're going to have openings in the front office, lol.They got the most important piece right.
They got the most important piece right.I'm amazed at how winners always seem to have pretty good teammates....
Tua is a winner.
It's B.S. for them to do that. Even after Burrow was at LSU, he was a 6th-round projection before 2019.Honestly I still don’t get why Brady was a 6th rounder. And that’s not revisionist history. He played more than well enough and had a more than good enough arm to be a 3rd or 4th rounder. Brady always had an above average arm. It was never a cannon like Mahomes or Stafford, but he wasn’t exactly a pee shooter like Chad Pennington or something.
This hindsight crap is garbage. Same with Brady at Michigan. There was a reason he was the 199th pick his year. Sometimes, guys improve, things work out, and that's great, but it doesn't change what happened before.
It's B.S. for them to do that. Even after Burrow was at LSU, he was a 6th-round projection before 2019.
This hindsight crap is garbage. Same with Brady at Michigan. There was a reason he was the 199th pick his year. Sometimes, guys improve, things work out, and that's great, but it doesn't change what happened before.
I'm not an NFL guy at all, but Simmons would have replaced the hole Keuchly left. But Derrick Brown is a grown-ass man and unblockable.Lions would’ve been better off taking Simmons or Brown imo.
I'm not an NFL guy at all, but Simmons would have replaced the hole Keuchly left. But Derrick Brown is a grown-ass man and unblockable.
Simmons is like a bigger Jabril Peppers.A bigger, stronger, faster, better version of Jabrill Peppers.
They got the most important piece right.I would say Miami screwed Saban, and themselves, when they wouldn't sign Drew Brees.
Tua is a winner. He will push that thing forward in the right direction.
I’ll be interested to see who they get with their next couple picks.
Plus New England is poised to take a nose dive. That division is wide open and up for grabs.
Kinda weird how Saban screwed Miami by going to Bama and just repaid Miami by giving them the best QB that Miami has drafted since Marino.
I would say Miami screwed Saban, and themselves, when they wouldn't sign Drew Brees.Not sure I buy Saban’s spin on that.
just stupid
Not sure I buy Saban’s spin on that.Would you buy the spin of fins owner and/or one of the doctors that was consulted?
The truth is that at that point in time Brees wasn’t as accomplished an NFL QB as Culpepper. Culpepper had been blowing up the stat line with Moss in Minnesota, think he might’ve even won a league MVP.
Brees was already getting drafted over by San Diego before he ever hurt the shoulder when the Chargers took Eli #1 and swapped him for the #4 pick Phillip Rivers.
Saban is a tyrant. If he wanted Brees he would’ve gotten Brees.
Of course the Raiders blindly take the fastest guy. This is idiotic. How has it worked out for them the last 20 years?
Trey Wingo is a dumpster fire.He is a complete f##ing weirdo. I can’t be the only one who is creeped out by him can I ?
Of course the Raiders blindly take the fastest guy. This is idiotic. How has it worked out for them the last 20 years?20 years? Last 50 years lol. Al Davis isn’t even alive and they’re still doing it lol.
I'm not watching what you guys are as I'm watching local draft coverage, but I've always liked Trey Wingo. I think he's been more enjoyable than Greenie was on the morning radio show. Maybe that's not a high bar, but it's an improvement.
Before settling in for round one, I want to get this off my chest:Exactly,while he did show poise when brought in during the NC game 3 yrs back.He also had the benefit of a roster that usually averaged 14 starters that were better than their opposite number.Also more often than not he had enough time in the pocket for toast/tea
Tua is overrated and should NOT be drafted as a franchiser - Tua's injury history is concerning and nobody knows how effective he is behind an OL who can't keep his jersey clean or throwing to receivers who aren't significantly better against the secondary.
20 years? Last 50 years lol. Al Davis isn’t even alive and they’re still doing it lol.
At least they didn’t take a punter or kicker in the 1st round.
How many 1st rd pix do the Fins have?3 this year and 2 next year.
Lions would’ve been better off taking Simmons or Brown imo.Saw this on MGO
Saw this on MGOLmao.
Breaking News - Jeffrey Okudah announces retirement from the NFL
LMAO
Urban with another ‘croot in the 1st.I'd be nervous if my first round draft pick was chillin' in a robe. Not really....but kinda.
Raiders probably reached a little bit. Most mocks had him going in the 2nd.
Lmao.Ya know I have sunk so low as a Browns Fan.I prefer they tank,they start getting traction and they'll just pull the rug out from underneath when getting your hopes up.Like Lucy moving the football just when Charkie Brown going to strike it
I know that’s a joke, but honestly- and it’s sad to say- but I wouldn’t blame Okudah or any player drafted by the Lions if he decided not to play for the Lions.
Lions are a joke organization with terrible ownership.
Al Davis isn't the only football guy that likes speed on the field
worked for the KC Chefs
Hey so either the Packers wasted a first round pick, or Aaron Rodgers is getting the boot. Win-WinI'd rather take Love over Herbert so yes I do like him. But He's probably not even going to play until the final year of his rookie contract.
Hey so either the Packers wasted a first round pick, or Aaron Rodgers is getting the boot. Win-WinYup.
I'd rather take Love over Herbert so yes I do like him. But He's probably not even going to play until the final year of his rookie contract.Packers were 1 game away from the Super Bowl last year.
Lions would’ve been better off taking Simmons or Brown imo.
Simmons on the Lions, no. You'd have to be a bit creative w/ him and let him freelance (say LaVar when he played for Marty or maybe like Polamalu if he's primarily at safety). Matt Patricia is totally incapable of this. Patricia would just use him as a scapegoat for being "out of position"Patricia is a fat slob idiot who will be fired before the 2021 season anyway, so who cares.
Clyde Edwards-Helaire? Really?Who had him as the first RB off the board?
Who had him as the first RB off the board?Not me. He’s 5’7” and I think he ran 4.61 at the combine. I thought he was going to be a 3rd or 4th rd pick.
Patricia is a fat slob idiot who will be fired before the 2021 season anyway, so who cares.This is the Lions we are talking about. Are you sure Patricia will be fired?
Simmons will be around for a long time. Patricia’s ass is grass in Detroit after this year.
This is the Lions we are talking about. Are you sure Patricia will be fired?Yeah, because it’s the Lions. They fire and hire a coach every 3-4 years. This fat slob Belichik reject will be no different.
This is the Lions we are talking about. Are you sure Patricia will be fired?For as bad as they've been, they haven't been shy about churning coaches.
For as bad as they've been, they haven't been shy about churning coaches.Lol it’s what they do. Go look back since Bobby Ross days. They fire coaches every couple years. I can’t think of one that lasted longer than 3 or 4 years since Ross.
Packers were 1 game away from the Super Bowl last year.Oh its a horrible pick. Might be a good situtation for Love though, he can follow the Jimmy G route to get totally paid w/ a few decent games. He's pretty raw and has to learn a few things.
Do they get Rodgers help and take a weapon to pair with Adams in the 1st rd?
Nope. They trade up and take a QB in the 1st rd who played small ball and has turnovers problems.
It’s a bad pick. And Rodgers is a diva. And he’s petty. BAD IDEA.
I LOVE THE DRAMA THOUGH LOL!
Oh its a horrible pick. Might be a good situtation for Love though, he can follow the Jimmy G route to get totally paid w/ a few decent games. He's pretty raw and has to learn a few things.Doesn't even need to look outside the organization. Just be Matt Flynn, and throw for 400 yards in your one start
Kind of getting annoyed at Ravens for continuing to get really good players at the end of round 1It’s why they are always good.
Going to be really interesting to see what happens with Redskins All-Pro tackle Trent Williams tomorrow during day 2 of the draft. Williams basically hates Redskins management and is refusing to play there and demanding a trade.a lot of cap money for a 32 year old coming back off injury
Williams is going to be 32 when the season starts and he missed the entire 2019 season- so it’s not exactly like he’s a spring chicken that’s smack dab in his prime and there are no issues or risk with going after him in a trade- but he’s still a hell of a player and a sure-fire quality starting tackle.
He’s a a pretty big domino that has yet to fall.
Happy for Damon Arnette, who worked his tail off and got targeted all the time last year because he was on the other side of Okudah and was playing with a broken hand.Yup time will tell if hey's worthy of that pick.But he played in all 4 seasons and definetly honed his game and a good tackler.Ran a 4.5 at the combine but he wasn't bad in coverage.
Holy hell when did this happen?I wanted him in the draft a few yrs back.Damn things are looking up in the old Town.Alright Baker time to man up and show us that Balling Leadership.Great find MDoT,there are shirts made up here in N.E.Ohio pertaining to the Browns/Indians - "Just once before I Die"
Also: love what Cleveland did signing Jack Conklin at RT and getting an instant plug and play starter at the other tackle spot in Jedrick Wills tonight. Baker has a massive upgrade upfront protecting him and paving the way for the backs at both tackle spots day one.
Lol it’s what they do. Go look back since Bobby Ross days. They fire coaches every couple years. I can’t think of one that lasted longer than 3 or 4 years since Ross.Fontes?or was he before
It’s why they are always good.Perhaps but Flacco had one stellar campaign and got them to the Mountain Top.I still think Lamar's play will catch up to him - just a matter of time
And now that they have a very good dynamic QB in Lamar and not a shitty one like Flacco they are going to be a pain in the ass in the AFC for the next decade.
| 215 | Bengals | DT Malcolm Roach, Texas |
| 216 | Redskins | CB JOHN REID, PENN STATE |
| 217 | 49ers(DET) | C Jake Hanson, Oregon |
| 218 | Giants | DT CARLOS DAVIS, NEBRASKA |
| 219 | Vikings(MIA) | TE Jacob Breeland, Oregon |
| 220 | Raiders(LAC) | TE Joseph Deguara, Cincinnati |
| 221 | Panthers | RB Salvon Ahmed, Washington |
| 222 | Dolphins(ARI) | G Tyre Phillips, Mississippi State |
| 223 | Jaguars | G Tremayne Anderson, Clemson |
| 224 | Packers(TEN)(CLE) | RB Michael Warren II, Cincinnati |
| 225 | Ravens(NYJ) | DE James Smith-Williams, NC State |
| 226 | Bears(LV) | TE Stephen Sullivan, LSU |
| 227 | Dolphins(IND) | K Rodrigo Blankenship, Georgia |
| 228 | Falcons(PHI)(TB) | WR Jauan Jennings, Tennessee |
| 229 | Redskins(DEN) | C Trystan Colon-Castillo, Missouri |
| 230 | Patriots(ATL) | CB Kindle Vildor, Georgia Southern |
| 231 | Cowboys | DE Derrek Tuszka, ND State |
| 232 | Steelers | DT DARRION DANIELS, NEBRASKA |
| 233 | Bears | S Brian Cole, Mississippi State |
| 234 | Rams | S Shyheim Carter, Alabama |
| 235 | Lions(NE)(PHI) | OLB OLUWOLE BETIKU JR., ILLINOIS |
| 236 | Packers(CLE)(BUF) | P Braden Mann, Texas A&M |
| 237 | Packers(TEN)(DEN)(NE) | S Jalen Elliott, Notre Dame |
| 238 | Giants(NO) | TE Devin Asiasi, UCLA |
| 239 | Bills(MIN) | TE Jared Pinkney, Vanderbilt |
| 240 | Dolphins(HOU) | DT Josiah Coatney, Ole Miss |
| 241 | Patriots(SEA) | T Scott Frantz, Kansas State |
| 242 | Packers(BAL) | QB Tyler Huntley, Utah |
| 243 | Titans | CB Reggie Robinson II, Tulsa |
| 244 | Dolphins(CLE)(GB) | TE Dalton Keene, Virginia Tech |
| 245 | 49ers | OLB Tipa Galeai, Utah State |
| 246 | Dolphins(KC) | OLB Qaadir Sheppard, Ole Miss |
| 247 | Giants | ILB Jordan Mack, Virginia |
| 248 | Dolphins(HOU) | WR Quez Watkins, Southern Miss |
| 249 | Vikings | RB JAVON LEAKE, MARYLAND |
| 250 | Texans | FB/TE Charlie Tamoepeau, Portland State |
| 251 | Dolphins | CB Stanford Samuels III, Florida State |
| 252 | Broncos | C Zach Shackelford, Texas |
| 253 | Vikings | K Tyler Bass, Georgia Southern |
| 254 | Packers(DEN) | T Drew Richmond, USC |
| 255 | Giants | RB Deejay Dallas, Miami |
a lot of cap money for a 32 year old coming back off injuryYeah he’s in the last year of his deal at $14.5 million. He’s an unrestricted f/a in 2021.
Are you better off being drafted versus UDFA in all cases?No. Probably better off being a UDFA than a 5th, 6th, or 7th rd pick. At least that way you can choose where you want to go.
trading up 1 spot???Generally they are worried about another team trading into that spot and taking the guy they want.
if you're talking to that organization, just ask them if they're going to take your guy
a lot of cap money for a 32 year old coming back off injury
Holy hell when did this happen?I wanted him in the draft a few yrs back.Damn things are looking up in the old Town.Alright Baker time to man up and show us that Balling Leadership.Great find MDoT,there are shirts made up here in N.E.Ohio pertaining to the Browns/Indians - "Just once before I Die"
trading up 1 spot???Yeah, because if they know you REALLY want someone to the extent you're willing to trade up one spot, I'm sure they'll be truthful...
if you're talking to that organization, just ask them if they're going to take your guy
Yeah he’s in the last year of his deal at $14.5 million. He’s an unrestricted f/a in 2021.Ya well if he missed the whole 2019 season and is 32 he's not exactly on solid ground either.So if the skins could hammer out some agreement with him then swap him that could work out
Word is the Redskins are demanding a 2nd rd pick. They have no leverage to be demanding anything right now.
Yeah, Tampa had to make that trade.Here's who I think had to change their plans, because a guy they thought would be gone was still on the board::
Wirfs was the last of the highly rated 4 OT’s available, and OT was a big need for the them. Can’t risk staying put and watching another team move to 13 and take him.
Wirfs is a freak of nature and damn near every mock draft I saw had him going in the top 10. They couldn’t sit there and risk it. They had to get him.
Ya well if he missed the whole 2019 season and is 32 he's not exactly on solid ground either.So if the skins could hammer out some agreement with him then swap him that could work outYeah the Redskins are asking too much and I’m not sure anyone is going to offer him a the fat contract he wants.
Holy hell when did this happen?I wanted him in the draft a few yrs back.Damn things are looking up in the old Town.Alright Baker time to man up and show us that Balling Leadership.Great find MDoT,there are shirts made up here in N.E.Ohio pertaining to the Browns/Indians - "Just once before I Die"Happened right at the beginning of f/a. I thought it was a great move and they didn’t overpay either. Tennessee was stuck- they really made a terrible choice by signing Ryan Tannehill to that big contract. That move lead to them having to franchise Derrick Henry and not being able to keep Conklin. If I’m running that team- I am locking up Conklin and Henry for the long-term rather than wasting all that money on freaking Ryan Tannehill.
Ya well if he missed the whole 2019 season and is 32 he's not exactly on solid ground either.So if the skins could hammer out some agreement with him then swap him that could work outI think that boat has sailed. If they were going to do that, they would have done it a year ago.
Here's who I think had to change their plans, because a guy they thought would be gone was still on the board::Dallas at #17 was looking for a DB, but CeeDee Lamb was still available, so they took him instead.
8. Arizona - Simmons, LB
13. Tampa - Wirfs, OT
14. SF - Kinlaw, DT
20. Jax - Chaisson, LB
22. Minnesota - Jefferson, WR
28. Baltimore - Queen, LB
The Browns at 10 and the Broncos at 15 wouldn't have counted on who they got being there, but the Browns knew they'd get one of the top 3 OT and the Broncos knew they'd get one of the top 3 WR, so I don't really count that.
It's probably going to end up as a lose-lose situation, with the Skins getting nothing and Williams getting a minimal free-agent contract.Yeah, I think that’s the most likely scenario at this point. That player-organization relationship is irrevocably damaged. There’s no making nice and going back to the way things were.
Dallas at #17 was looking for a DB, but CeeDee Lamb was still available, so they took him instead.I think Lamb was the best all-around WR in the draft, but that was a dumb move if you ask me. Amari Cooper is only 25 and just got a huge extension and Michael Gallup is a REALLY good up and coming receiver that’ll be 24. Both of them had over 1,100+ receiving yards last season.
I think Lamb was the best all-around WR in the draft, but that was a dumb move if you ask me. Amari Cooper is only 25 and just got a huge extension and Michael Gallup is a REALLY good up and coming receiver that’ll be 24. Both of them had over 1,100+ receiving yards last season.Yep.
There are a lot of really talented WR’s in this draft that can be gotten in the 2nd to 4th rd. Lamb is going to be their #3 WR this season. They probably could’ve gotten an explosive athlete like KJ Hamler to be their #3 WR in the slot in the 3rd rd.
Dallas had so many holes to fill on defense and they also needed to replace All-Pro center Travis Fredrick who just retired because of a horrible auto-immune disease- and Cesar Ruiz was sitting right there and probably one of the best center prospects to come out in at least a few years. Should’ve went defense or Ruiz right there.
Cowboys gonna Cowboy.
My take on Swift, FWIW, he's a notch below Gurley and Chubb and roughly parallel to Michel.I think Swift > Michel. If we’re talking NFL prospects....imo....I’d grade them...
He's not the same as Sony Michel, but about as effective overall. I'd probably take Chubb over the lot, though Gurley in his prime was special.
I think that boat has sailed. If they were going to do that, they would have done it a year ago.A year ago he had not been injured and missed the whole season.But I was thinking the exact same thing lose-lose.That way the skins won't take it on the chin and Williams will get something later.But they'd rather be ignoranuses
It's probably going to end up as a lose-lose situation, with the Skins getting nothing and Williams getting a minimal free-agent contract.
I think Lamb was the best all-around WR in the draft, but that was a dumb move if you ask me. Amari Cooper is only 25 and just got a huge extension and Michael Gallup is a REALLY good up and coming receiver that’ll be 24. Both of them had over 1,100+ receiving yards last season.Great points not only that what is the situation with DAK.Is he going to be under center this year(if it's played)?Definately have enough targets and holes in the roster to look elsewhere.Amazing idiots can rake in so much money and be so clueless
Cowboys gonna Cowboy.
Great points not only that what is the situation with DAK.Is he going to be under center this year(if it's played)?Definately have enough targets and holes in the roster to look elsewhere.Amazing idiots can rake in so much money and be so cluelessDak has no deal. He was franchise tagged but he hasn’t signed his franchise tag offer. He’s threatening to hold out as far as I know.
Dak has no deal. He was franchise tagged but he hasn’t signed his franchise tag offer. He’s threatening to hold out as far as I know.Well then Jones is an idiot hoping to achieve imbecility
If he signs the tag he’ll make $33 million this year, but Dak wants a long term deal.
Yeah he’s in the last year of his deal at $14.5 million. He’s an unrestricted f/a in 2021.the Vikings are in real need
Word is the Redskins are demanding a 2nd rd pick. They have no leverage to be demanding anything right now. Especially when all the teams in the top 10 ish that desperately needed a tackle got highly rated young ones in the draft.
Redskins probably won’t get a better offer than a 4th rd pick now. Unless they are willing to deal, they probably are going to have to cut him because he’s made it pretty clear he is never playing for them again.
Dak has no deal. He was franchise tagged but he hasn’t signed his franchise tag offer. He’s threatening to hold out as far as I know.well, I'm hoping Dak holds out and the Boys start Cooper Rush
If he signs the tag he’ll make $33 million this year, but Dak wants a long term deal.
This is @FearlessF (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=10)In Wuhan
the Vikings are in real needVikings only have $12 million in cap space. Williams will count $14.5 million against the cap in 2020. I believe they can work around this if they can get Williams to agree to a new contract and bring his cap hit for 2020 down, but apparently he's looking for $18+ million a year average and a lot of money guaranteed up front. Redskins want a 2nd round pick. Only a moronic team would give up a 2nd round pick and then pay a guy on the wrong side of 30 who just missed an entire season that kind of money.
Either they take a tackle in the 2nd at 26th or they trade picks for Williams or someone else
after trading down last night they have 2 in the 3rd, 2 in the 4th, 2 in the 5th, 2 in the 6th, and 3 in the 7th
probably be able to make a deal.
Since the advent of the franchise tag, I doubt the highest paid is often the best.
Tunsil is really good, but is he best OL in the entire leauge good? I really don't think so.
And Lions throw away their second round pick. FunYup. They wasted their #3 overall pick too. Not that these guys are bad players. Swift is very good, he’s just not a pressing need or as much of a fit for the offensive system.
Have fun trying to stop this Ravens offenseThey lost one of their 3 stud TE’s and needed some WR help more than another RB imo. And I like Dobbins a lot.
Great fit for JK in BaltimoreProbably the best place to play in the entire league if you’re a RB.
Aaron Rodgers gets himself a RB. A between the tackles power runner.
AJ Dillon ran 4.53 at the combine and had a 41” vertical and 24 reps of 225 at 247 pounds.
Yeah. He’s a beast.
Have fun trying to stop this Ravens offensethought he'd be average on a lot of team, on the Ravens tho, that a perfect fit.
I don't hate the Julian Okwara pick, but man Zack Baun is still out there. I get the steroid issues, but he was a 1st round talent.New Orleans snatches Baun the pick right before the Lions other 3rd rd pick.
Bradlee Anae is the safe pick to start tomorrow, but man, I wouldn't hate taking Jacob EasonI have zero faith in Eason. I’d take a flier on him in the 6th or 7th just bc of the size and arm strength, but still too many good players still on the board in the 4th rd.
Bradlee Anae is the safe pick to start tomorrow, but man, I wouldn't hate taking Jacob EasonYou referring to the Lions?Either way I'd agree with MDoT here Eason seems eerily similar to Mallett
I wouldn't be surprised if Cam Akers was the most productive RB of this draft. His OL at FSU was atrocious.Could be,he was supposedly one time a Buckeye lean.He came out the same time as Dobbins but ya he looked all that the limited times I've watched him
I don't hate the Julian Okwara pick, but man Zack Baun is still out there. I get the steroid issues, but he was a 1st round talent.Maybe more of an LB or situational edge rusher on Sundays IMO.If the Lions were looking for an LB to stop the run I agree Braun should have been the pick
Have fun trying to stop this Ravens offenseYup I hope they play KC during the season,if there is one.Or SF
New England trades up to #60 and takes Josh Uche from Michigan. That’s a player that is a perfect fit for that scheme.If that was a glaring need, kind of a tweener.92.3 radio said he had like 15 sacks his last 2 seasons.As long as he can beat the big uglies off the edge he'll be OK.Decent rushing/covering doesn't want to get caught in the scrum though
Also: Raiders drafting WR’s only. Makes total sense. Not.This was the horror story of being a Browns Fan.Back in 2016 I believe,Haslem hires Depotesta and some Harvard guys being impressed by IVY league pedigree.Thinking Noll/Walsh/Johnson/Belichick didn't need that.Anyway what do these luminaries do?Draft 4 WRs and a TE with holes all over the roster - the faithful were livid.Rashad Higgins is the only one left of them and he plays sparingly from 4 fookin' years ago.Art Modell looks like Curly Lambeau next to this lump Haslem
Maybe someone answered, but are these late round picks likely to make the roster?Sure there are keepers but after the 4/5th round you have to get a little lucky.Johnny Unitas was unsigned and cut by Pittsburgh that's when they had I think 17 rds.Obviously Brady was picked in the 6th,Montana in the 3rd.So 3 of the top QBs of all time weren't day one pix
I would feel bad for Rodgers if he wasn’t such a bitch.LMAO,maybe we can get you to do cameo's on the NFL Today or one of those
Probably the best place to play in the entire league if you’re a RB.Yeah, they even let their RB play QB there! :57:
Kansas City steals LB Willie Gay. Dude is a freak. Great pick up.Wouldn't call him a freak he was a rd 3 projection.His freelancing will get him drilled on Sunday's.Was watching a preview show on FOX and the rip on him was he tackles upright a lot.They showed film and they were right.Go after Henry,Gurley or Chubb that way and you'll be peeking thru your ear hole.Maybe different if they use him in coverage or on the edge.If he can be coached to use his head he might be all that
Maybe more of an LB or situational edge rusher on Sundays IMO.If the Lions were looking for an LB to stop the run I agree Braun should have been the pickOkwara would make sense if the Lions ran a 3-4, I don't see him as a 4-3 OLB. Zack Baun is. He's a better fit, and it's not like he's a pure run stop guy, he was top 10 nationally in sacks.
I wouldn't be surprised if Cam Akers was the most productive RB of this draft. His OL at FSU was atrocious.I think you’re right. Akers is super talented. Plus with Gurley gone, there is a huge opportunity for him to earn lot of carries in LA.
Wouldn't call him a freak he was a rd 3 projection.His freelancing will get him drilled on Sunday's.Was watching a preview show on FOX and the rip on him was he tackles upright a lot.They showed film and they were right.Go after Henry,Gurley or Chubb that way and you'll be peeking thru your ear hole.Maybe different if they use him in coverage or on the edge.If he can be coached to use his head he might be all thatWillie Gay ran 4.45 at 6’1”, 243 pounds and had a 40” vertical at the combine. The only LB who ran faster was Simmons.
NFL doesn't give a rodents rear end about off field issues.The one day they do care is draft day. Untold numbers of players have slid/dropped due to off-field issues. But once you've shown you can play in the league, then their apathy rears its head.
The one day they do care is draft day. Untold numbers of players have slid/dropped due to off-field issues. But once you've shown you can play in the league, then their apathy rears its head.His off field issues were academic in nature.So unless they are looking for Jeopardy contestants he fits in with most of the League
I have zero faith in Eason. I’d take a flier on him in the 6th or 7th just bc of the size and arm strength, but still too many good players still on the board in the 4th rd.Well that's where the Colts took him but they are pressed.Was there a better QB available?
Well that's where the Colts took him but they are pressed.Was there a better QB available?For the Colts it makes sense. For the Lions it makes no sense. Lions are still long ways away.
49ers trade for Trent Williams. Redskins get the 49ers 5th rd pick this year and a 3rd rd pick next year.Not giving up too much,now Williams can't brood - contender
Wow. Rich get richer. 49ers already had the best run game in the entire NFL last year. They just added a big piece to their already great OL.
Anae still just sitting there, and the Lions have two 5th rounders. Please just trade up and get him.Ya didn't realize he had 13 sacks and 14TFL last fall,crazy,trade those 5s
I didn't think Willekes would fall this far, but I'd still prefer Anae.
That team is literally just a QB and maybe 1 or 2 players away from competing for a SB. Lions are 30-40 players away from that.(https://www.cfb51.com/Smileys/fantasticsmileys/cheesy.gif) had to throw that in there didn't ya.With our luck the Lions and Browns will face off in one.....probably not.But the Cubs and Indians faced off - and the worlds still here
Bucs steal WR Tyler Johnson in the 5th rd. His ball skills are as good as any WR in the draft and his route running is probably second only to Jerry Jeudy.Ya head scratcher he had 3 solid seasons playing in a cold climate no less.Played on decent,not great squads so barring injury he should be around for a while
He is going to way out play that draft slot.
Anae still just sitting there, and the Lions have two 5th rounders. Please just trade up and get him.Or draft a slow WR and a second running back. :91:
I didn't think Willekes would fall this far, but I'd still prefer Anae.
Or draft a slow WR and a second running back. :91:It’s almost like Quinn and Patricia want to get fired....
Ya head scratcher he had 3 solid seasons playing in a cold climate no less.Played on decent,not great squads so barring injury he should be around for a while1 solid season and 2 great seasons. And the guy has only been playing WR for 3-1/2 years. Never played WR in high school or jr high or pop warner. He played everything else from QB to safety.
Donovan Peoples-Jones should’ve stayed in school.I agree Collins should have come out but I'd take DPJ now.How did that UM DE get picked and so far not DPJ
Do the lions need a wide out?Has Darney Holmes been drafted yet?
Will DPJ even get drafted at this point?
Do the lions need a wide outThe got Cephus today. I feel bad for him.
Bucs steal WR Tyler Johnson in the 5th rd. His ball skills are as good as any WR in the draft and his route running is probably second only to Jerry Jeudy.If this was true, he wouldn't have gone in the 5th round.
The got Cephus today. I feel bad for him.That's right forgot,he had a good game vs Buckeyes.Good size
Will DPJ even get drafted at this point?Idk, do the Raiders pick again?
If this was true, he wouldn't have gone in the 5th round.If you realized there are some pretty poor evaluators of talent it's not a stretch
If you realized there are some pretty poor evaluators of talent it's not a stretchOf course there are, but the guy making the claim leans extreme over prudent.
I agree Collins should have come out but I'd take DPJ now.How did that UM DE get picked and so far not DPJYa baby Browns I like it high ceiling low risk :cool2:
NFL thinks quite highly of MSU. Willekes falling like this is shocking, but both Williams and Bachie I assumed would be gone by now.Seems like the type the Squeelers would grab.I agree shocked he's still there
Ya baby Browns I like it high ceiling low risk:cool2:Great pick for the Browns in the 6th rd. Browns got the best athlete at WR in the draft for the price of a 6th rd pick.
If this was true, he wouldn't have gone in the 5th round.Not really. Players free fall in the draft all the time. Especially WR’s from small schools that run 4.7 or 4.8. That’s why he fell. He doesn’t run fast.
Seems like the type the Squeelers would grab.I agree shocked he's still thereEh, I don't think so. I don't think he can shift to 3-4 OLB, and I don't like him as a 3-4 DE at all. Maybe that's part of the issue, is the number of teams he's a fit for is limited.
Not really. Players free fall in the draft all the time. Especially WR’s from small schools that run 4.7 or 4.8. That’s why he fell. He doesn’t run fast.I'm a college football guy.
Google him. Do your research. I know you’re not familiar with him being you’re an SEC guy.
Great pick for the Browns in the 6th rd. Browns got the best athlete at WR in the draft for the price of a 6th rd pick.Your draft takes aren't bad, but why are they always so radical? Again, if this was the case, he would have been drafted earlier.
The got Cephus today. I feel bad for him.Outside the fact that him getting more money is better than less, I kind of think it is what it is.
Great pick for the Browns in the 6th rd. Browns got the best athlete at WR in the draft for the price of a 6th rd pick.Now he's just got to play receiver well.
DPJ is a legit 6’2”, 212 lbs. runs in the 4.4’s and has a 45” vertical. At minimum he should be up for the KR/PR duties right off the bat. And if he does get on the field he’s going to see a ton of single coverage with everyone gearing to stop OBJ and Jarvis.
Your draft takes aren't bad, but why are they always so radical? Again, if this was the case, he would have been drafted earlier.I don’t think my takes are radical. At all.
Now he's just got to play receiver well.If he can’t develop there in that situation he can’t anywhere. OBJ and Jarvis are two of the best in the business. If he can’t learn from them- who can he learn from. Baker is a really good up and coming QB that isn’t afraid to let it rip. He’s going to be single covered and maybe not covered at all every time he’s on the field with Cleveland with OBJ+Jarvis - that’s if he even makes the team.
https://www.nfl.com/prospects/donovan-peoples-jones?id=32195045-4f60-4060-aa06-be3909ebff80He’s a terrible route runner and he doesn’t know how to find the open spaces in zone coverage and like you said his releases off the line are not good.
DPJ does not project well to the NFL. Very athletic yes but not an impressive route runner and not good being jammed and pressed.
I hope it was a “Michigan “ thing and he proves those projections wrong- because he is a good kid.
A great Route runner, several have said one of the best in draft, is K.J. Hill from OSU. He may not get picked because he is not a huge breakaway threat. But if a team needs a consistently open slot guy with dependable hands...
https://www.nfl.com/prospects/donovan-peoples-jones?id=32195045-4f60-4060-aa06-be3909ebff80He had some drops vs the buckeyes but he returned the ball well for 2 yrs and has quickness and good moves he is a solid 6-2.He could have used another year but it's not like Ms offense would have benefitted him losing the O-line,some RBs and the QB.How much does he get the ball there?Think he'll do well and i like the pick,specially there
DPJ does not project well to the NFL. Very athletic yes but not an impressive route runner and not good being jammed and pressed.
He had some drops vs the buckeyes but he returned the ball well for 2 yrs and has quickness and good moves he is a solid 6-2.He could have used another year but it's not like Ms offense would have benefitted him losing the O-line,some RBs and the QB.How much does he get the ball there?Think he'll do well and i like the pick,specially thereMichigan’s offenses under Harbaugh have been an abortion.
Michigan’s offenses under Harbaugh have been an abortion.Two years ago Shea Patterson was projected to be a top 10 pick after his JUNIOR year. Now he's an undrafted senior. Any talk of Harbaugh being some sort of QB whisperer is officially dead and gone.
And the first year that DPJ was at Michigan, Michigan did not have a wide receivers Coach. And he was the top WR in the room, he didn’t have established upperclass WR to teach him the ropes. Best programs always have established guys that can teach the younger guys coming in how to do it. Oh and they also have position coaches for every position. True story, Michigan did not have a dedicated WRs coach in 2017. They hired former Florida head coach Jim McElwain in 2018 to coach WRs and he left for CMU before the season ended. Not sure he was ever really known for developing WR’s either- it always struck me as a weird hire. They’ve had a legit high level WR coach one year- this year with Gattis.
Tarik Black’s decision to grad transfer looks super smart right now.
Two years ago Shea Patterson was projected to be a top 10 pick after his JUNIOR year. Now he's an undrafted senior. Any talk of Harbaugh being some sort of QB whisperer is officially dead and gone.I heard good things but Top 10?He'll get picked up somewhere.
Lesson is Don't Do Drugs. Zack Baun and Joe Bachie both fell tremendously because of them.That's why I drink Liquor but I still fall
I heard good things but Top 10?He'll get picked up somewhere.The day after the 2018 Draft, Mel Kiper's initial 2019 mock had both Patterson and Clayton Thornton going in the top 10. He may have Had Lewerke back end of the first round.
Packers take Michigan OL Jon Runyan Jr in the 6th rd. I like that pick. A lot. He didn’t have the elite height or length or athleticism of a LT but he played the LT position very well. They’ll probably kick him to guard where he’s more naturally suited to play and he’ll be a really solid startable guard for a long time.I liked the Jonah Jackson pick, I had him, Runyan and the Fresno State kid as basically a dead heat for best OG on the board. But when the Lions took a second guard, and passed on Bredeson, that was a mistake. I think he'll be really good there.
Bachie with 2 - 100 tackle seasons will get scooped up for sureOf the two, Raekwon Williams going undrafted was a bigger surprise. Very productive, great kid. I get the red flags with Bachie. He wasn't a sure fire guy like Baun, but I was surprised Williams fell to the 6th, let alone out of the draft.
Two years ago Shea Patterson was projected to be a top 10 pick after his JUNIOR year. Now he's an undrafted senior. Any talk of Harbaugh being some sort of QB whisperer is officially dead and gone.He won the Elite 11 MVP, put up stupid numbers at IMG Academy and was a 5*, the #1 QB and #4 overall player in the 247Composite in his class. He made the wrong choice in transferring schools. He should’ve transferred to Oklahoma. He’d have been a 1st round pick.
Two years ago Shea Patterson was projected to be a top 10 pick after his JUNIOR year. Now he's an undrafted senior. Any talk of Harbaugh being some sort of QB whisperer is officially dead and gone.A Harbaugh Michigan is where offensive talent goes to die. DPJ in the 6th round is a brilliant pick by the Browns. Huge upside and very little risk.
Skins pick up Randy Moss' kid and the CU QB.I'm flummoxed he went untaken.
what doesn't make sense to me about the Saints' Jameis signing, is that the Saints just signed back-up QB Taysom Hill to a $21 million, two-year extension.:017: :confuse: boggles what's left of my medula
Patriots don't try and make a play for Jacob Eason in the 4th rd or Jake Fromm in the 5th round. Their QB's are Brian Hoyer and Jarrett Stidham. For real? Unless they are going to sign Cam Newton or tank for Trevor, this makes no sense to me. Eason is a project, but he's more talented than either QB you have.BB has always tried to hammer that square peg into a round hole make chicken salad out of chicken shit,convincing himself he's talent on loan from God.Great at techniques/mechanics/alignments/schemes not so much at spotting talent or flexibility regarding advice
https://twitter.com/MasterTes/status/1254429749025308672?s=19LMFAO at that tweet.
Not certain why the Browns took a TE,they have enough of them and moved into the 1st rd in '17 to get Njoku from Miami.Bryant is a very good talent,His senior season efforts earned him the John Mackey Award, given to the most outstanding tight end in college football, in 2019.But they have a stable of TE's and could have used DL depth.I guess the Browns were one of 4 teams to earn a A in the Draft from PFFBrowns are stacked everywhere.
Browns are stacked everywhere.They're the Browns, so that's what might go wrong.
If they don’t make a huge push to 10-11 wins and get in the playoffs- something went really wrong. I think they gained a lot of ground on the Steelers and Ravens. That division is going to be brutal with those 3 teams, especially with Big Ben coming back. Fortunately, they’ll all catch a break playing the Bengals because man they are gonna suck. I feel bad for Burrow.
They're the Browns, so that's what might go wrong.Lol. True. Got me there.
They're the Browns, so that's what might go wrong.
Lol. True. Got me there.
These are the New Browns though. :57:Alright you yapping jackels ya'll done crapping on the future Champs.Get your cheap shots in whilst you can but I hope you like crow.Watch it's gonna happen....in my lifetime....once.....kinda,sorta certain.Just you wait ;D
I am a big Nick Chubb fan because he's a class guy and had a terrible knee injury from which he recovered.he looked better than Todd last year as well. Ran for 1,494 yards and 8 TD's on 5 YPC. His rookie season he was at 996 and 8 TD's at 5.2 YPC. He's a STUD. Steal in the 2nd rd.
I don't watch the NFL much at all, but if I do, I would watch Da Browns to see him play.
He stepped in as a freshman when Gurley was suspended and almost looked better than Todd.
Not certain why the Browns took a TE,they have enough of them and moved into the 1st rd in '17 to get Njoku from Miami.Bryant is a very good talent,His senior season efforts earned him the John Mackey Award, given to the most outstanding tight end in college football, in 2019.But they have a stable of TE's and could have used DL depth.I guess the Browns were one of 4 teams to earn a A in the Draft from PFFStefanski real loves the 2 TE formation. Figures you can't have enough. Also puts some pressure on Njoku to step up his games.
Alright you yapping jackels ya'll done crapping on the future Champs.Get your cheap shots in whilst you can but I hope you like crow.Watch it's gonna happen....in my lifetime....once.....kinda,sorta certain.Just you wait ;DI have a t-shirt that say just give me one Cleveland, Been waiting since 1964. And I was only 4 then, so I really don't remember it.
he looked better than Todd last year as well. Ran for 1,494 yards and 8 TD's on 5 YPC. His rookie season he was at 996 and 8 TD's at 5.2 YPC. He's a STUD. Steal in the 2nd rd.
Stefanski real loves the 2 TE formation. Figures you can't have enough. Also puts some pressure on Njoku to step up his games.Hell just have an incentive laden contract
I have a t-shirt that say just give me one Cleveland, Been waiting since 1964. And I was only 4 then, so I really don't remember it.My earliest memories are in the Late 60's with BIL,Brother and their friends down at the old Stadium - it was mammoth.Remember seeing Deacon Jones and Merlin Olsen when the Rams were in town.Man they were bigger than life.Watching Leroy Kelly and Paul Warfield,Ron Johnson,Milt Morin,Hickerson,Schafrath.Defense had Erich Barnes - use to play with Spider Lockhart in NY,Walter (Zoom)Johnson,Marvin Upshaw(Gene's Brother).Cockroft was a Punter/Place Kicker seemingly one of the last straight away kickers.When Barnes played with the Giants he was the dirtiest player in football.When the Browns traded for him it was somehow turned into just aggressive play
I still remember my Uncle, the most die hard Browns fan I have ever known, He just kept having hope that it would happen again. He died after Modell betrayed us and before the Team came back. I am just hoping that isn't me.
My earliest memories are in the Late 60's with BIL,Brother and their friends down at the old Stadium - it was mammoth.Remember seeing Deacon Jones and Merlin Olsen when the Rams were in town.Man they were bigger than life.Watching Leroy Kelly and Paul Warfield,Ron Johnson,Milt Morin,Hickerson,Schafrath.Defense had Erich Barnes - use to play with Spider Lockhart in NY,Walter (Zoom)Johnson,Marvin Upshaw(Gene's Brother).Cockroft was a Punter/Place Kicker seemingly one of the last straight away kickers.When Barnes played with the Giants he was the dirtiest player in football.When the Browns traded for him it was somehow turned into just aggressive playI actually have a short super 8 film from when the Rams played in Cleveland in the 60s. My dad took his camera to the game and filmed part of it.
my father transferred all his super 8s to VHS years agoSounds like an unintended heirloom. I bet it could continue onto future generations, as technology progresses and changes. Hmmph.
now my brother is converting to digital
I had missed Patterson didn't even sign as a UDFA. Even broken Brian Lewerke did.I wonder if there's something burbling on the personal side. Though his game was always kind of undisciplined.
I had missed Patterson didn't even sign as a UDFA. Even broken Brian Lewerke did.Poor kid got Harbaugh'd. Regressed in year 2 under Harbaugh just like.....Wilton Speight, John O'Korn, and Brandon Peters.
my father transferred all his super 8s to VHS years agoA few years ago my wife found a guy who had converted a bunch of VHS tapes from my era of playing HS football to DVD. She bought several copies and gave them to me for Christmas.
now my brother is converting to digital
well, now you know why you didn't get a shot at the NFL ;)I don't know, did you forward that tape to the Lions?
Shea Patterson signs with the Chiefs.Belichick faffed that but in '93 he left Kosar go for All Galaxy Todd Philcox so ya-no
Andy Dalton released by the Bengals and signs a 1-year deal with the Cowboys to presumably back-up Dak. Thought New England would make a run at big red, but I guess they are totally cool with Jarrett Stidham and Brian Hoyer.
Belichick faffed that but in '93 he left Kosar go for All Galaxy Todd Philcox so ya-noIt kinda blows my mind that he’s really going to go into the season with just Brian Hoyer and Jarrett Stidham. I thought for sure he’d at least draft a QB or make a run at Andy Dalton or Cam Newton.
#tankingfortrevorHonestly wouldn’t be a bad strategy. Seems like the formula to build a contender these days is getting a good QB on an affordable rookie deal and building the team around him.
They might... I just feel like Belichick's pride would make it REALLY hard for him to intentionally tank a season for draft picks... Especially if he's trying to prove that he can win without Brady.Pats are in full-scale rebuild mode imo. They lost 5 starters on their defense to free agency/trades- including by far their two best front 7 players in Jamie Collins and Kyle Van Noy. They lost their greatest player ever in f/a in Brady. Gronk came out of retirement with his mind/body refreshed- but he's not playing for them. And they still have one of the oldest rosters in the NFL.
So while I threw the tanking for Trevor thing out there, it only makes sense if it's a full-scale rebuild... If they can make some trades, acquire more 2021 draft picks in addition to picking high in each round, etc...
BB was great at recycling and tailoring NFL cast offs to the teams needs.He wasn't all that on Draft Day save one extremely lucky pick in the 6th rd of the 2000 Draft.Sprinkled in with some serviceable-yeoman pix along the wayYeah, I actually kind of agree with you. His drafting kinda sucks in 20 years outside of Brady and Gronk.
Also: how is Cam Newton not signed yet ?The problem is you can't bring him in to be a backup. How many contenders are a QB away? Maybe Chicago? I think New England is tanking for Trevor. Indianapolis would have made sense if they hadn't just signed Rivers.
Charges f****d up royally taking Justin Herbert #6 overall. They should’ve signed Cam Newton and used that #6 pick on a player to help the team win today- and then drafted Eason in the 4th or Fromm in the 5th.
The problem is you can't bring him in to be a backup. How many contenders are a QB away? Maybe Chicago? I think New England is tanking for Trevor. Indianapolis would have made sense if they hadn't just signed Rivers.I didn't get Indianapolis signing Rivers. That dude is completely washed up. He is ass now. And he had all the weapons a QB could ask for last year.
I didn't get Indianapolis signing Rivers. That dude is completely washed up. He is ass now. And he had all the weapons a QB could ask for last year.You prolly didn't have much good to say about Brady in 2000 outside of where he played 😎 Not sure about Herbert though
I think the Chargers are very close to being a contender. And Justin Herbert was a waste of a pick at #6 overall. He is going to be a bust. Stupid pick. Newton would've been a much better choice there.
You prolly didn't have much good to say about Brady in 2000 outside of where he played 😎 Not sure about Herbert thoughLike ELA said, Brady was taken in the 6th round, not 6th overall.
He is ass now.I love when ass is an adjective.
I love when ass is an adjective.Me too lol. But seriously Phillip Rivers is not good anymore and he’s basically 40.
could be worse, Indy could be paying capt Kirk CousinsKirk Cousins mastered the game. Can’t hate the player. Hate the game. He’s made more money by being paid like the elite of the elite than just about anyone in history of the sport- all while being an above average player. Kirk isn’t terrible, he’s not elite. He’s an above average starter. He’s a lot better than about half the starting QBs in the league.
I think the idea that there aren't enough good QBs to go around is a myth.I think what Baltimore has done is trying to copy what the Rams and Seahawks and Chiefs did. Draft a QB and get him on a cheap rookie deal and build the team around him.
In any given season, there are over 32 QBs you could win with. But the NFL is such a copycat league, that most everyone is trying to win the same way.
If that's the case, then yeah, you need one of the 6-8 elite QBs to have a meaningful chance...but that's also stupid. Give credit to Baltimore for doing something different. Many saw it as risky, but it's not risky if you do a good job, it's merely different.
Trying to win the same way another team does, but with inferior players, is how you get the same handful of teams picking in the top 5 every year.
The point is that they didn't have to move up to draft him - there was no danger of anyone else taking him that high. That's the 'value' Kiper & Co. keep harping on and on about.Yeah I agree with that. They were smart enough to say we'll build the offense around the player, and they were making the read option and the 3 TE's and the RPO's the staple of their offense, something that the other NFL teams don't do.
And those teams you listed didn't implement the option like BAL did. Jackson had so many TD passes because the offense committed to exploiting him as a runner, which opened things up. He has nowhere near that many TD passes if he's used as a traditional QB....which is why all the teams who would use him as such passed on him.
It wasn't such a gamble because BAL was committed and had a good plan. They were smart enough to do something different.
I don't think anyone on any 'side' LIKES this kind of thing, but for anyone to suggest racism isn't still a problem - just look at pro sports HCs/managers.I guess my question is what is the correct number? With Ron Rivera I believe 7 of the 64 people in HC and GM positions is a minority. That clearly isn’t enough in the eyes of the NFL? What is?
Racism isn't just overt hate/attacks/murder. It's having 22 black guys on the field and 2 white guys in charge of them. Same with a starting 5. It's a thing, and it's alive and well.
Baseball seems to be the most concerned about it and I'd argue they're the least guilty.
And why is the assumption that because there aren’t more it is because of a prejudice?hahahahah
I don't think anyone on any 'side' LIKES this kind of thing, but for anyone to suggest racism isn't still a problem - just look at pro sports HCs/managers.Give me a f’in break.
Racism isn't just overt hate/attacks/murder. It's having 22 black guys on the field and 2 white guys in charge of them. Same with a starting 5. It's a thing, and it's alive and well.
Baseball seems to be the most concerned about it and I'd argue they're the least guilty.
Give me a f’in break.Well who can argue with that?!? You've changed my mind!
I don't think anyone on any 'side' LIKES this kind of thing, but for anyone to suggest racism isn't still a problem - just look at pro sports HCs/managers.So you are saying that the teams are being racist since they don't have any white guys on the field, right?
Racism isn't just overt hate/attacks/murder. It's having 22 black guys on the field and 2 white guys in charge of them. Same with a starting 5. It's a thing, and it's alive and well.
Baseball seems to be the most concerned about it and I'd argue they're the least guilty.
Cleveland Browns reportedly the team to beat for Jadeveon Clowney’s services. If they land him, wow. He hasn’t lived up to the #1 overall status or the insane hype- BEST DE PROSPECT EVERRRR- but he’s still a very good player and the Browns pairing him with Myles Garrett would be something to see.A man who has made a lot of money on one big hit in a bowl game.
Cleveland Browns reportedly the team to beat for Jadeveon Clowney’s services. If they land him, wow. He hasn’t lived up to the #1 overall status or the insane hype- BEST DE PROSPECT EVERRRR- but he’s still a very good player and the Browns pairing him with Myles Garrett would be something to see.I thought they made him the best offer and he turned them down?
I thought they made him the best offer and he turned them down?Can't fix stupid..People out of work economy teetering and this babbling knob acting like 21 million a year is beneath him.If there is a just GOD the Clownster will twist his knee TONITE
Can't fix stupid..People out of work economy teetering and this babbling knob acting like 21 million a year is beneath him.If there is a just GOD the Clownster will twist his knee TONITEThat is ... aggressively aggressive.
I mean, if he'd rather take less money to play somewhere he'd be happier, what's wrong with that?Exactly. Money isn't everything.
I'm not saying that because I'm a Browns Fan.It sounds like that's not enough,screw himI mean, he thinks he's worth more money. And as such, one of two things will happen.
Can't fix stupid..People out of work economy teetering and this babbling knob acting like 21 million a year is beneath him.If there is a just GOD the Clownster will twist his knee TONITEBased on the lack of movement by Clowney, I am guessing that the offer was between 15 to 18M, no one is offering him the 20M he was looking for with his injury history
I mean, he thinks he's worth more money. And as such, one of two things will happen.I really wouldn't give a shit if the owners/NFL didn't sucker municipalities and weak minded mayor's to fork over the money to build their enterprising palaces for them.I've voted down sin tax twice and no one I know who voted for it.I'd rather have reasonably priced spirits than erect a palace for Billionaire's who priced guys like me out of the venue's.So screw them,oh and God Bless San Diego
A. He will get what he wants, and thus he's worth that much in the sense someone will pay.
B. He will not get that much, in which case, the amount less he gets by passing will be its own punishment.
However, is the concern for those people out of work is so high, hopefully the Browns owner can throw a pile of money to help some.
So people should ignore the market for their services because of Covid-19?I'm mocking the market like you do every reasonable point that counters yours.Priorities not that i should think you would recognize them.The market long ago killed the goose that laid the golden egg
Mkay.
I bet you're siding with the owners in MLB, too, right?
I don't think Justin said that, and his sister still attends UGA.I know, I’m just ragging on Georgia for going with a mediocre QB when they had a transcendent one behind him.
Maybe there was something to Justin Fields saying everyone at Georgia was racist?Most everyone in GA is, including my entire extended family. Not overtly racist, just submerged in the systematic racism we all see posted around social media.
Most everyone in GA is, including my entire extended family. Not overtly racist, just submerged in the systematic racism we all see posted around social media.Most everybody in Georgia is racist?
And yes, it goes both ways - both major races are racist. Although one sort of has a reason, tbh. But I'm sure I'm wrong.
Most everybody in Georgia is racist?most everyone over the age of 30 is racist
Just when I think youve run out of stupid comments you come up with a topper
Most everybody in Georgia is racist?Spent much time there?
Just when I think youve run out of stupid comments you come up with a topper
CD,full stop the tribunal liason Obe-Wan has spoken you don't want him coming back with the full weight of a certain lobby do you?OK, I shall hence forth walk on figurative egg shells ...
I just love sweeping all encompassing ignorant generalizations based on an impression derived from knowing a relative handful of people.It's ignorant because you disagree with it, right? Fun.
It's ignorant because you disagree with it, right? Fun.No. It’s ignorant because it’s a sweeping generalization of millions of people.
The one time I went, the brisket was just so-so.
I like Fox Bros. better which is probably racist because they are two white guys from Texas. Who knew they did BBQ in Texas? Not me.
I want you to visit 100 rural GA towns. And count on your fingers how many aren't segregated.So "progressive" = "non-racist"?
Try being a fly on the wall in a white home in rural GA during Obama's 8 years. Be one in a black home now.
Then tell me all about how hard racism is to find in GA. Tell me how progressive everyone is. Please, tell me.
So "progressive" = "non-racist"?Why are you conjuring a detour? Yes, social progress leaves racism behind, if you deem racism bad.
Go read some about our great progressive POTUS, Woodrow Wilson, and get back to me about that.
Racism is easy to find in Georgia, as it is in every state. Boston is a very racist segregated place also, and it's not in Georgia. So is Chicago. I don't know of a major city that is not segregated significantly. This doesn't negate anything, lol.I'll just say that public behavior is often different from private thoughts.
Georgia very nearly elected a black female governor. What does that mean? South Carolina has a black Senator. It means a lot of black people live in these states, lol.
Saying there are racists in Georgia is like calling water wet. Claiming nearly everyone in Georgia is a racist is an over generalization. And claiming it is uniquely true about Georgia and not other states is obviously false as well. Take it up with Josh Fields, not me.
I also wonder how many of the black Georgians one could consider as being racists. Or the Hispanics. Or the well educated. And of course 60% of the population of the state lives in metro Atlanta, which doesn't mean there aren't racists here, but they do tend to be better educated than those in small towns about the state, and more progressive, and more tolerant, in general.
Some African Americans must feel that Georgia is more appealing than some northern states.It's the weather, right?
I'll just say that public behavior is often different from private thoughts.I hear more outright racist BS here in SoCal than I did during my two years in lily-white Marietta GA.
I hear more outright racist BS here in SoCal than I did during my two years in lily-white Marietta GA.Exactly.
Alton Brown, of Food NetworkI saw him in our Publix parking lot one day while living there. I wanted to say hello, but I never want to be "that guy".
I love Alton Brown and it was him and America's testkitchen that really got me into cooking.Well I follow their advice/recipes but I still eat sammiches over the sink if that's considered cooking
Alton Brown was the reason I got into homebrewing. I saw his homebrewing episode of Good Eats in 2005, and said "I could do that", which turned into "I really need to try that", and after Christmas 2005, I was a homebrewer as of early 2006.I've entertained thoughts after a friend came back from a S.N.O.B.(Society Northen Ohio Brewers)Meeting
Pats sign Cam Newton. Phew, protects MSUs recruiting pitch to QBs of either getting a ridiculous contract, or having a 15 year backup career, and making millions of dollars without CTE. Was looking like a 35 year old Brian Hoyer was about to be the Patriots starter, no moreBelichik will change the system to Cam I think.
Huh?What happened?Chiefs signed Mahomes to a $400 million extension
Huh?What happened?Chiefs gave Mahomes their whole cap
After 1 big season.I'd say he had 2 big seasons. In only 3 years in the leauge. His early career looking a bit like Marino. Can't ever remember a QB so young coming in and just blowing shit up.
why I don't bother with star ratingsI think there is a strong correlation between star ratings and eventual NFL performance. Of course, "correlation" is a term not well understood by some who thing it means there can be no exceptions.
I think there is a strong correlation between star ratings and eventual NFL performance. Of course, "correlation" is a term not well understood by some who thing it means there can be no exceptions.No doubt there is a strong correlation. Most positions, I feel like the crootin services accurately nail it more times than not. However, I feel like QB is one of the positions they get wrong more than they get right.
I think there is a strong correlation between star ratings and eventual NFL performance. Of course, "correlation" is a term not well understood by some who thing it means there can be no exceptions.QB and OL, not necessarily
QB and OL, not necessarilyI think there is a strong correlation across all players.
Listen Precious,ELA's brought more Information/interest/intrique/insight to this forum than you sounding like a cat caught in a fan beltSorry, I agree ELA has brought far more than I. I am the one usually posing questions.
Sorry, I agree ELA has brought far more than I. I am the one usually posing questions.Questions sure - snarky,salty unsolicited insults not so much
Questions sure - snarky,salty unsolicited insults not so muchI can be snarky and insulting. That's just like your opinion, man, and you're a lousy stinking softball player, Jack.
How many tens of billions of dollars would be saved if even the most conservative of us posters were allowed to go through the defense budget, item by item and cross out what we don't need?You can say that about every government program, even or maybe especially ones that aren't even federal functions, per the Constitution.
Any takers?
How many tens of billions of dollars would be saved if even the most conservative of us posters were allowed to go through the defense budget, item by item and cross out what we don't need?billions? try trillions.
Any takers?
You don't actually think they spend $20,000 on a hammer, $30,000 on a toilet seat, do you?Nope.
All this is PR and marketing driven, nothing else, in reality.Lol. What? It's not fans that are bitching on twitter about the Redskins name. I'm sure if you asked most actual football fans about the name change, they'd say it's stupid. And I'm sure if you asked all Redskins fans who grew up loving that team- they are probably a little pissed off about the name change right now.
They are running the calculus of which will alienate fewer fans.
Nope.Good post,I'm as Patriotic as the next guy but too many unsavory types looking for financial windfall by selling fear.Really if our treasury can be saved.all the changes on the books by lobbyists need to be erased - drain the swamp
Military Industrial Complex is corporate welfare at it's finest. Boeing, Lockheed Martin, Raytheon, etc., etc., have to get that paper. Dollar dollar bills y'all.
Sad thing is, so many politicians and generals leave public office and go to work for the big defense contractors and the big defense contractors pay the former politicians/generals stupid money in salary and other compensation like stock options for no reason other than to lobby congress to spend more money on defense programs. And it's legal. Which blows my mind.
Browns fans would be first in line to cancel their teamLions fans would be right there in line behind them.
I would think that a belief that is widely accepted for a long period of time is more likely to be true than one that isn't.No, not at all. :banghead: If this were the case, new discoveries would decrease over time, not increase.
Certainly in the realm of science and engineering and math I'd say it definitely is much more likely to be true if a belief has survived for a century or more.
Even a "belief" that has survived 50 years is probably true.
Cleveland Browns are doomed.
Of course, "nobody" knows that Paul Brown started the team. Cancel that history.
Browns fans would be first in line to cancel their team
I'm certain Paul Brown has a link to racism somewhere along the lineBastages - the lot of you,we have them right were we want!!!
I'm confused, which name are they changing, Redskins or Washington, or is it both?Still, the funniest joke I've ever heard about that name change came from Tony Kornheiser. Paraphrasing: "So, the Washington Bullets are changing their team name so as not be associated with crime. They will now just be called The Bullets."
Browns fans would be first in line to cancel their teamSorry, I am a diehard, been one for 53 years when I discovered football. Never cancelling my team
"Redskins" has always been an epithet.I think the difference and why the anger on some people's part, is they are being forced to change their name where the other name changes were a choice by the organizations.
It doesn't get less epithetical because it's been a team name for almost 90 years.
I don't understand why anyone who is not a Washington fan would be angry about the name-change.
Would people be angry if the Carolina Panthers changed their name? Were people angry when the New York Titans became the New York Jets?
I think the difference and why the anger on some people's part, is they are being forced to change their name where the other name changes were a choice by the organizations.Well, "force" is a bit of a strong word. The federal government isn't forcing them to change their name. As far as I'm aware, the NFL isn't telling them "change your name or we're kicking you out of the league." It's more along the lines that public opinion is so dramatically against them that their choices are change it to mollify the public or don't change it and continue to endure constant criticism, berating, and probably protests.
I think it's forced when your sponsors make threats.We have freedom of speech and freedom of association in this country. If you are the type of organization that nobody wants to associate with, that's not forcing you to change. It's exerting significant pressure, of course, but it's not force.
Well, "force" is a bit of a strong word. The federal government isn't forcing them to change their name. As far as I'm aware, the NFL isn't telling them "change your name or we're kicking you out of the league." It's more along the lines that public opinion is so dramatically against them that their choices are change it to mollify the public or don't change it and continue to endure constant criticism, berating, and probably protests.Public opinion was not the force, they could and have been weathering that. It was sponsors threatening to pull out that was the "force"
But... The problem with your argument is that in many cases, absent this "force" as you call it, people WON'T ever change. Slavery, segregation, and Jim Crow ended because it was forced to end. It's not like Mississippi was 100% behind the idea of admitting James Meredith and was just upset that they were being forced to. They wouldn't have desegregated without force of law.
The Redskins ownership/organization has been criticized for decades now and have done nothing. If they were going to have changed their name, they've had numerous opportunities and have refused. Now they're mad because they're being "forced" to do something, not claiming they were never going to voluntarily do it.
Seems to me like a hollow argument.
We have freedom of speech and freedom of association in this country. If you are the type of organization that nobody wants to associate with, that's not forcing you to change. It's exerting significant pressure, of course, but it's not force.
All this is PR and marketing driven, nothing else, in reality.I mean, aren’t pro sports teams (College too), especially with names and mascots, just a large exercise in marketing?
They are running the calculus of which will alienate fewer fans.
Lol. What? It's not fans that are bitching on twitter about the Redskins name. I'm sure if you asked most actual football fans about the name change, they'd say it's stupid. And I'm sure if you asked all Redskins fans who grew up loving that team- they are probably a little pissed off about the name change right now.The term virtue signaling is fascinating because of how it takes on a kind of specific politicized sense despite the wording or even the idea behind it seeming to be more neutral.
Has nothing to do with alienating fans. The actual fans are against a name change.
Has everything to do with NFL virtue signaling, and throwing out an empty, hollow meaningless gesture- and them caving to a bunch of dickwad "woke" pussies on twitter who probably don't even watch football or even knew there was a Washington Redskins team until one of their twitter friends told them there was an NFL team called the Washington Redskins and that it's racist.
The term virtue signaling is fascinating because of how it takes on a kind of specific politicized sense despite the wording or even the idea behind it seeming to be more neutral.I do think it has taken on a very politicized tone. That said, I think it's a term that makes sense.
I do think it has taken on a very politicized tone. That said, I think it's a term that makes sense.So the definition I’ve read doesn’t touch on the idea of the belief being insincere. That would imply sincerity makes it not virtue signaling.
It's voicing a political opinion [often unwarranted] that probably has no meaningful impact on your daily life, and that--deep down--you really don't give a crap about, because it shows that you're part of the correct tribe.
For example--I think the Washington Redskins should change their name. I believe this despite the fact that I am not a Native American and to have no Native American ancestry. I think this despite the fact that I don't live in Washington DC nor am I actually a fan of the team. I think this despite the fact that honestly, I'm not "offended" by the name. The Washington Redskins are, to me, absolutely inconsequential unless I choose one of their players for a fantasy football team or if I'm facing someone who has chosen one of their players.
So I have no vested interest in the team nor their name, I just think it's ridiculous that in 2020 it's still a thing.
Does that mean that this argument, for me, is no more than virtue signaling?
I do think it has taken on a very politicized tone. That said, I think it's a term that makes sense.That's about the way I see it too. I have no rooting interest in the Washington Redskins. I used to root for them to beat Dallas, but I don't give enough of a crap about the NFL to even care about that anymore. I will watch them neither more nor less independent of them changing their name.
It's voicing a political opinion [often unwarranted] that probably has no meaningful impact on your daily life, and that--deep down--you really don't give a crap about, because it shows that you're part of the correct tribe.
For example--I think the Washington Redskins should change their name. I believe this despite the fact that I am not a Native American and to have no Native American ancestry. I think this despite the fact that I don't live in Washington DC nor am I actually a fan of the team. I think this despite the fact that honestly, I'm not "offended" by the name. The Washington Redskins are, to me, absolutely inconsequential unless I choose one of their players for a fantasy football team or if I'm facing someone who has chosen one of their players.
So I have no vested interest in the team nor their name, I just think it's ridiculous that in 2020 it's still a thing.
Does that mean that this argument, for me, is no more than virtue signaling?
So the definition I’ve read doesn’t touch on the idea of the belief being insincere. That would imply sincerity makes it not virtue signaling.I don't think it necessarily requires the belief to be insincere.
I mean, lots of people do lots of showy things To give off the image of virtue. But in some cases it’s a bad thing, and in others less so.
Joining the mob in pounding on someone who steps out of line the least bit is another way of doing it.I think that was rare, as a percentage of those protesting.
All this is PR and marketing driven, nothing else, in reality.https://youtu.be/AtK_YsVInw8
https://youtu.be/AtK_YsVInw8Amazing. Thanks for this. Carlin is one of the GOATs.
Back in my day, it was "Save the Whales". OK, then, I'm all for whaling, I mean, whales. I like whales.Remember "No Nukes" "Save The Whales" "Gay Rights".Think it was National Lampoon putting out T-Sirts "Nuke The Gay Whales" - they sold pretty good as I recall
I signed up for some club my freshman year, I forget the name now, supposed to be a do good kind of thing. The reason was they had two good looking coeds at their booth. So I went to a few meetings, and our deal to raise money was to usher at university concerts, they had the Beach Boys once. OK, fine. But, and you can see this coming, I never saw anything of those two females, in fact, there were zero females in the club. The other folks were all "pre-law" and resume building. We had maybe ten people in it, maybe, and everyone was some kind of officer, except me, I didn't care, finally drifted off.When I went into electrical engineering, I knew it was a bit of a sausage fest of a major. And at a school like Purdue, which was around 55% male student body at the time, the odds were already stacked against us.
I could have been Executive Vice President for Membership and Finding Good Looking Coeds.
And I can't think of any good reason for people who aren't Washington fans to get angry about the change. What in their lives are they losing when a team changes its name from a racial epithet to something else?Then they'll just be FORCED to buy all new merchandise!
I picked philosophy. After all, I'd had an intro to philosophy course my junior year of high school that I really enjoyed. I was really interested in philosophy (in some ways, I still am).Philosophy was my initial major. I wish it was still a job, I would have stuck with it.
Can you guess how many girls there are in philosophy classes?
About as many as there were in electrical engineering.
I still keep my philosophy books around in my home office. Definitely a class i'd go back and take again. Though I'd expect the syllabus would look completely different. Are they still letting people read Plato?2 people a camp fire and a 12 pack and you have philosophy
I purchase golf clubs on eBay a couple years old and slightly used. Saves half the price of new.Specially when you wrap half of them around trees or toss them in to ponds
Seahawks lose this deal. By a lot I think.Even Browns/Lions fans are like WTF Pete needs to put the pint down.Freakin' Jets gotta bee pinching themselves.Prolly would have taken 1/2 that
Specially when you wrap half of them around trees or toss them in to pondsI have broken clubs on trees - unintentionally
I've had the same clubs (custom designed for me) since ~2001.
I purchase golf clubs on eBay a couple years old and slightly used. Saves half the price of new.
I've had the same clubs (custom designed for me) since ~2001.These are my exact expectations - when I do go duffing every decade or so.Matter of fact I'm taking as many whacks as i can and get my money's worth.
I don't buy new [or used] clubs, because I know the clubs aren't the reason I'm a sh!tty golfer...
I haven't been able to buy a better golf game either.That is true...
it's my swing that's the problem, but........
there have been some improvements in clubs and balls since 2000 that I'm sure help some.
Even Browns/Lions fans are like WTF Pete needs to put the pint down.Freakin' Jets gotta bee pinching themselves.Prolly would have taken 1/2 thatYeah, even the Lions/Browns wouldn't make a trade like that.
But I think anyone who wants to play a lot of golf would do better to get custom-fit clubs, ONCE, despite the cost, and then focus on using them.I will agree with this for a 5'6" guy or a 6'5" guy
Arians said Ronald Jones will remain the starter but that's just a bunch of coachspeak imo. Fournette is WAY more talented than Ronald Jones and he'll take that job in no time.Good thing I drafted Ronald Jones II, and handcuffed him with Ke'Shawn Vaughn
Good thing I drafted Ronald Jones II, and handcuffed him with Ke'Shawn VaughnVaughn is an intriguing pass catching RB.
Vaughn is an intriguing pass catching RB.No, we had our draft prior to that move.
Honestly though ELA, what do you think? Do you really think Jones is better than Fournette? I've watched plenty of both of them, and Fournette is wayyyyyy more talented. He jumps out on the screen to me when he plays. Every once in awhile Fournette does something that makes you go WHOA- THAT DUDE AIN'T HUMAN. Jones is just an OK back imo. Fournette hasn't had that breakthrough dominant season but he's also been nicked up and played on a SHIT organization with zero help around him on offense.
Vaughn is an intriguing pass catching RB.Yeah, as a fantasy football guy [not this year, but for the last several] I've avoided Fournette because he's been nicked up constantly. Dude has trouble staying on the field. When he's healthy, though, he looks really f'ing good.
Honestly though ELA, what do you think? Do you really think Jones is better than Fournette? I've watched plenty of both of them, and Fournette is wayyyyyy more talented. He jumps out on the screen to me when he plays. Every once in awhile Fournette does something that makes you go WHOA- THAT DUDE AIN'T HUMAN. Jones is just an OK back imo. Fournette hasn't had that breakthrough dominant season but he's also been nicked up and played on a SHIT organization with zero help around him on offense.
NFL starts up tonight
Texans at Chiefs on NBC
Did they even get together for a draft or was that all onlineI think they did it online. I agreed to join the league then forgot about it when they emailed me my team. Go Matt Ryan!
NFL football - would like to watch my Bungles today but instead I get bullriding. Guess I'll see how the Browns look this year. Odell is on my fantasy team, I was somewhat surprised to learn I had a fantasy team this year but here we are.This sparked an interesting thought for me.