CFB51 College Football Fan Community
The Power Five => Big XII => Topic started by: CWSooner on October 19, 2019, 08:26:46 PM
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At DKR?
It being on Telebevo, the rest of the country can't watch it.
Is Kansas playing really well, or is Texas still in a funk about the RRS, or is Texas so banged-up that this doesn't really mean anything except that Texas is banged-up?
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i took the Horns and gave the points
dern
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What was the spread? About 20, maybe?
Kansas just had to settle for a FG, so it's 40-33 Horns.
Horns will have the ball and the lead with 6:56 to play.
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Heh! I knew the Horns would pull it out.
Sure I did.
There was a lot of action and scoring crammed into that last 6:56.
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I knew this was gonna be a weird day when you guys crashed your boomer schooner
glad nobody was hurt
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yup, I blame the Boomers
had an affect on the Badgers, obviously
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Is Kansas playing really well, or is Texas still in a funk about the RRS, or is Texas so banged-up that this doesn't really mean anything except that Texas is banged-up?
1) Les Miles is rubbing off on Kansas. To what extent, we'll know more in the coming weeks.
2) For the 2nd straight week, Texas was wholly unprepared to play football.
3) Quite possibly, we don't know how to play defense - and quite certainly, we don't know how to tackle.
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BC it appears all the injuries on def actually mean something
also the KU QB is the real deal
thank God their def was pretty weak or we would have been in a world of trouble
Not sure what it means but I read that when a TH coached team is the favorite it rarely covers the spread
and when his team is an underdog it almost always covers the spread
anyway we better get better in a hurry or both Tech and Baylor will nail us
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Sounds like a case of BigXII defense...
The plus side is a new term: twelving. When both teams score 40+ points, it's now called 'twelving'.
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Sounds like a case of BigXII defense...
The plus side is a new term: twelving. When both teams score 40+ points, it's now called 'twelving'.
quiet Orange or we'll Georgia you
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Sounds like a case of BigXII defense...
The plus side is a new term: twelving. When both teams score 40+ points, it's now called 'twelving'.
You're late to the dance, OAM.
There has been exactly one (1) Big 12 conference game this year that meets that standard, and that was the one you were referring to.
So, maybe last year, or the year before, but "twelving" in 2019 is as "with it" as "groovy" was in 1972. In other words, not.
Snark, to really be effective, needs to be essentially true. Yours here is essentially false.
;)
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The plus side is a new term: twelving. When both teams score 40+ points, it's now called 'twelving'.
Geez. We were 2 points short of having a "twelving" match with LSU.
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So whether it's youth, injuries, rotten performance, what have you, they Texas Defense cannot get in the way of anyone right now - except on those occasions where they manage to tackle themselves.
Texas had a ton of talent coming into the season. A half-ton of that talent is now in the trainer's room being repaired. I've lost track of who is expected back, and who is just rehabbing for next year.
Anyhoo, Texas builds itself on a lot of moving parts. Players are cross trained at many positions, so a guy who looks like he's playing LB might drop to the DE spot or float to a shallow nickel spot - only to be replaced by a blitzing S who had the DT drop. When it works, it leaves opposing OL wondering who their assignment is, and QBs wondering where the open windows are.
Obviously, this arrangement relies on players understanding their role exactly in a given deployment and given call. During this season, because of substitution, too many players have moved to too many different positions. The result is reigning confusion. Players are out of position, or (more frequently) standing static - allowing the offense to operated on a very elementary level. Defensive linemen are getting double teamed because of no fear of pressure, and the secondary just tries to keep up.
Texas probably didn't take KU seriously enough, and the new OC changed a few things for the better. However, two incompetently executed 4th and 2 calls (the decision to go for it notwithstanding - the play calls were inexcusably bad) led to unnecessary points. All this would have been a line item in the box score had Texas then not uncharacteristically turned the ball over twice within 30 yards of its own goal line (which does seem to be characteristic - turnovers are almost always underneath the goal posts this season).
KU overperformed. They're not going 0'fer in the conference. However, Texas needs help on defense, and unless players heal to preseason form, I'm not sure how to reconstruct it mid-season.
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I dunno, Tulip. I couldn't watch this game, but I've seen all the rest of them. Injuries hurt, but more than confusion I see a lot of bad tackling. It killed y'all in both losses to date and has been a noticeable issue in the other games. I see less problems with guys knowing where they're supposed to be and more problems with wrapping up an open field tackle.
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So whether it's youth, injuries, rotten performance, what have you, they Texas Defense cannot get in the way of anyone right now - except on those occasions where they manage to tackle themselves.
Texas had a ton of talent coming into the season. A half-ton of that talent is now in the trainer's room being repaired. I've lost track of who is expected back, and who is just rehabbing for next year.
Anyhoo, Texas builds itself on a lot of moving parts. Players are cross trained at many positions, so a guy who looks like he's playing LB might drop to the DE spot or float to a shallow nickel spot - only to be replaced by a blitzing S who had the DT drop. When it works, it leaves opposing OL wondering who their assignment is, and QBs wondering where the open windows are.
Obviously, this arrangement relies on players understanding their role exactly in a given deployment and given call. During this season, because of substitution, too many players have moved to too many different positions. The result is reigning confusion. Players are out of position, or (more frequently) standing static - allowing the offense to operated on a very elementary level. Defensive linemen are getting double teamed because of no fear of pressure, and the secondary just tries to keep up.
Texas probably didn't take KU seriously enough, and the new OC changed a few things for the better. However, two incompetently executed 4th and 2 calls (the decision to go for it notwithstanding - the play calls were inexcusably bad) led to unnecessary points. All this would have been a line item in the box score had Texas then not uncharacteristically turned the ball over twice within 30 yards of its own goal line (which does seem to be characteristic - turnovers are almost always underneath the goal posts this season).
KU overperformed. They're not going 0'fer in the conference. However, Texas needs help on defense, and unless players heal to preseason form, I'm not sure how to reconstruct it mid-season.
What OU's DC Alex Grinch has done is something very different. He has simplified the defensive schemes so that players are freer to attack the ball. For years, we had been hearing Mike Stoops (and Brent Venables before him, for that matter), tell us that the players weren't lining up right, they weren't in the proper "fits," etc. The fan analysis was that the defense must be too complex. Well, Alex Grinch has simplified it, and along with other changes, has produced a defense far superior to what we had the last couple of years.
Tackling is a tough issue to address in mid-season. OU had tackling problems for what seemed to be the entirety of Mike Stoops' second run as OU DC. He continually was going to address it in practice, but it never got fixed. Grinch made it a point of emphasis from the first day of spring practice and it has worked. I doubt that Todd Orlando emphasizing it more on "Tough Tuesday" will get the job done.
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I'd disagree on the second part. Depending on what's been taught already, tackling drills specifically to clean up angles and approach can be beneficial on pretty short notice. Some of what ails Texas is actual tackling technique, which can be harder to clean up in season, but some of what ails them is curable.
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yup, especially with multiple injuries, younger or less experienced players moving into starting rolls, it's time to go back to the "base" defense and just play w/o all the shifting and moving to different positions and roles
it's not just lack of game snaps, it's mostly lack of practice reps for 2nd and 3rd or 4th string players
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Well, being able to get a player on the ground once a defender reaches him is another issue for Texas altogether.
A lot of the tackling issues stem from a failure of the player to bring his feet with him, that is, he launches himself at the tackle rather than running through it. Of course, over the last two weeks, the players in question have largely been CeeDee Lamb and Pooka Williams. Trying to fit up to either one, even when you're right in front of them, is a challenge for almost every player. They're just that good.
If Texas rushes 3, they're never getting to the QB. Eventually (not that long, really), a receiver will spring open - something that shouldn't occur with 8 defenders dropping. If they bring 5+, the time frame to the QB is shortened considerably, but they still almost never manage the sack. The Texas defenders are still athletic, and when told to run with a receiver can still usually manage it. However, Big 12 QBs are adept at dropping passes on a dime to defeat even tight 1 on 1 coverages.
Most teams that suffered the DB injuries Texas has would be playing walk-ons and undersized LBs. It's uncanny. However, the league isn't going to take that into account. We're still going to have to learn better defense.
As an aside, the KU QB needs to change running technique. He leads with his helmet battering ram style exactly how the NCAA has been ejecting players for over the last 3 years. I'm not seriously expecting the starting QB to be ejected for targeting, but he's going to seriously hurt himself or someone else if he doesn't learn to clean it up.
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A lot of the tackling issues stem from a failure of the player to bring his feet with him, that is, he launches himself at the tackle rather than running through it.
Collision tackling. I hate it. It's the calling card today for most DB's however, because they are lightweight track stars designed to keep up with receivers. They're not really physically built to wrap up steamrolling RB's. And plus they don't want to for fear of getting hurt.
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At least two of the injuries to our defensive players are a direct result of poor tackling form. Leading with the helmet has always been against the rules, not because of the danger it poses to the ballcarrier, but rather to the tackler. They've literally knocked themselves out of the game (and in one case resulted in a targeting penalty as a bonus).
Extremely bad fundamentals, from the majority of defensive players. It's brutal to watch.
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no excuse
most highly recruited corners are long and lanky
use those long arms to wrap up, keep your head up so you can see what you're doing
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It's not just fundamentals though. These guys are way overthinking things, getting into weird headspace. I think droog would point out, they're not trusting their coaching and they're not trusting each other. Take a look at this GIF, which I think pretty much sums up where our defense is right now:
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20191021/480ea17a545881f8bb10e8f514c1c29e.mov)
I mean, there are EIGHT guys back in coverage covering FOUR receivers. I especially like how Texas has 2-deep bracket coverage on the official. That'll show 'em!
For reference, Kansas WR #2, seen at the back left of the endzone streaking toward the center, easily caught the pass that hit him without a defender within 6 or 7 yards.
Our 2019 defense in one GIF, rightchere.
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I dunno, man....you can't just let those back judges roam free. They are matchup nightmares in the redzone.
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Looks to me like they're in zone coverage, and nobody's got (or knows he has) responsibility for the back half of the end zone. OTOH, shallow-center and shallow-left are very well-covered.
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(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20191021/480ea17a545881f8bb10e8f514c1c29e.mov)
I don't want to dawg on our guys, but bless their hearts - two guys covering shallow left, and a third making a break in that direction. Geez, maybe this is injuries causing this. I can't imagine such ineptitude unless it's backups.
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Inexperience
Im sure that between last game and next every DB will see that video 100 times with a what
could you have been thinking question from the coaches
we fans are just gonna have to be patient and they will come along
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The only person in this photo that's actually covered is the one who ends up catching the pass (for the 2 pt conversion that sent KU ahead for a minute, but almost nearly the only minute that mattered).
The left pylon throw is open. None of the THREE players near that receiver are in position to do anything about the pass. The center drag route has a beautiful passing window through the OL. Possibly the safety deep could get a hand to the ball, but he'd have to run through the receiver to affect it if the receiver squares his shoulders to the QB. It's hard to tell about the X receiver in the right end zone, but since he's deep with no defender in the frame, I'm guessing a quick curl puts him in position for the necessary catch.
Of course, none of this happened. Stanley simply waited a second until the back line popped free. With zero pressure, time was always his ally.
Any team in D1 would fight to get any single player Texas has on the field during this play. They're well thought of, talented guys. Like Utee says, they're thinking rather than playing. I'm hoping the infirmary list clears up a bit this week, and they rediscover the edge.
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I just fear it's starting to show that Herman is an offensive coach, and I'm not in a hurry to become Houston just yet.
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Most teams with our injury list would be playing backup LBs as Safeties and hoping to hang on.
Now, the notion that I've got some brilliant idea to make it better is obviously stupid. The coaches are paid tons of cash because they're light years better at fixing this than I am.
However, small things should be noted. In particular, when was the last time rushing 3 achieved the desired effect? Our defense is built on aggression, and the longer you give a Big 12 offense, the more you're likely to suffer a long completion. Always bring at least four, keep the OL guessing, and bring 5 or more on 3rd and more than 6.
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Most teams with our injury list would be playing backup LBs as Safeties and hoping to hang on.
Now, the notion that I've got some brilliant idea to make it better is obviously stupid. The coaches are paid tons of cash because they're light years better at fixing this than I am.
However, small things should be noted. In particular, when was the last time rushing 3 achieved the desired effect? Our defense is built on aggression, and the longer you give a Big 12 offense, the more you're likely to suffer a long completion. Always bring at least four, keep the OL guessing, and bring 5 or more on 3rd and more than 6.
I couldnt agree more
at least 4 should be on the line
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Most teams with our injury list would be playing backup LBs as Safeties and hoping to hang on.
Now, the notion that I've got some brilliant idea to make it better is obviously stupid. The coaches are paid tons of cash because they're light years better at fixing this than I am.
However, small things should be noted. In particular, when was the last time rushing 3 achieved the desired effect? Our defense is built on aggression, and the longer you give a Big 12 offense, the more you're likely to suffer a long completion. Always bring at least four, keep the OL guessing, and bring 5 or more on 3rd and more than 6.
That is not some kind of panacea. It absolutely depends on the QB, and to a lesser extent the line in front of him. Sending more guys on some teams is literally begging to get burnt. Some guys can have extra time but can't process 8 in coverage and they freeze. It's not black and white. There's always a balance between what "you" do well and what your opponent does well, and knowing when to rely on your strength vs. attacking their weakness. On the days the two align, you get blowouts. Most of the time, you have decisions to make.
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I just fear it's starting to show that Herman is an offensive coach, and I'm not in a hurry to become Houston just yet.
Orlando fielded some good defenses for Houston and was/is pretty highly regarded. Maybe he needs help in getting his players to buy in to what he's teaching and not abandon it at the first sign of adrenaline (see: Maryland games), but having an offensive HC does not necessarily condemn a team to lackluster defense.
Actually Texas sits in a very good position imo when they overcome a few minor hurdles. They have the talent, Orlando schemes well, and the offense not only scores well, they know how to take their time doing it. Good recipes for defense. I wouldn't underestimate the effect of losing those guys in the secondary.
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That is not some kind of panacea. It absolutely depends on the QB, and to a lesser extent the line in front of him. Sending more guys on some teams is literally begging to get burnt. Some guys can have extra time but can't process 8 in coverage and they freeze. It's not black and white. There's always a balance between what "you" do well and what your opponent does well, and knowing when to rely on your strength vs. attacking their weakness. On the days the two align, you get blowouts. Most of the time, you have decisions to make.
I fully agree that it isn't some panacea. However, I cannot find many instances at all where rushing 3 works out. It's just a straightforward course, against the Texas defense, of hanging around until your receivers lose their marks. It doesn't matter how long a QB freezes. Against a 3 man Texas rush, he just has to stand there until the situation becomes clear, because it always does.
To be clear, I don't have a problem with the 3 man front. Actually, I like it a lot (although possibly let Keondre Coburn stay on the field). I'm just suggesting that, certainly when the pass is far more likely, Texas should bring extra bodies - the more unpredictable, the better, but always bring more. The chances of a successful stop, even including things like a misfire or dropped pass, go up when the time isn't limitless.
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Well, near the goal line like that, I probably agree, best to send at least 4. Again, it depends on the guys you send as well, though. If you have a merely good or great DL, I'd tend to send 4 or more. If I have a tackle named Suh or Dorsey, or Williams.....meh....I might still just rush 3. There won't be time for the QB to stand there no matter what.
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Without commenting on his sportsmanship, if you have Suh on the field, everyone else needs to stand next to a receiver while he throws bodies out of the way until one of them is the QB or otherwise has the football.
I'm not speaking of general defensive tactics. I'm speaking specifically of the abilities Texas has on defense at the moment. Right now, they should never try to defend with 8 while pressuring with 3. The three will never ever threaten the QB, and a receiver will eventually come open. I wish this weren't the case, but it's repeated itself too often.
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obviously the same nod to outstanding talent pertains to the back 8 as it does to the front 3
if you have talented, intelligent, instinctive secondary personnel, dropping 8 works better
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obviously the same nod to outstanding talent pertains to the back 8 as it does to the front 3
if you have talented, intelligent, instinctive secondary personnel, dropping 8 works better
we dont do talented, intelligent or instructive and we dont tackle either
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then you may as well send 5 or 6, whatever it takes to heat up the college QB and force him to beat you under pressure
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I'm not speaking of general defensive tactics. I'm speaking specifically of the abilities Texas has on defense at the moment. Right now, they should never try to defend with 8 while pressuring with 3. The three will never ever threaten the QB, and a receiver will eventually come open. I wish this weren't the case, but it's repeated itself too often.
Gotcha.
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Sounds like a case of BigXII defense...
The plus side is a new term: twelving. When both teams score 40+ points, it's now called 'twelving'.
This post has not aged well at all.