CFB51 College Football Fan Community
The Power Five => Big Ten => Topic started by: Temp430 on August 27, 2019, 11:43:01 AM
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It's nice for the fans that it's a 7:30 PM night game. Late August day games in that big hole can be brutal. Michigan is fielding a new pro-spread offense but I wouldn't expect to see much other than soft vanilla the next two weeks ahead of the Wisconsin game. It will be a great opportunity for some of the youngsters to get game experience.
Go Blue!
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While not trying to tip their hand M still needs to get quality reps to the starters before UW.Specially going to Camp Randall.Surprised this is not a night game
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Iowa plays these guys in late September.
You can bet that they'll be paying close attention to this game.
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can't wait. season needs to get here already.
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Michigan should theoretically overwhelm MTSU.
In terms of concerns, I'd definitely prefer that CB Ambry Thomas be back in the lineup since this is a team that generally runs out 4 WRs.
In terms of curiosity, it's mainly about the offense. We've heard enough words from coaches and insiders to expect the FB and huddle is gone, that the team can run tempo, that RPOs help constitute the base offense, and that the days are gone of the run and pass game not being married to one another, such that their formations seldom look the same. The spring game supported many of those bullets. But whereas we have inklings about structure, we have very little idea about how efficient and coherent the new offense will be. Likewise, we expect Cesar Ruiz, Shea Patterson, and the WRs to thrive under this structure, but they still have to actually show that it's true.
Also of curiosity is the extent to which the defense steps back. Before the 2017 season, the team lost 11 defenders to the NFL (8 drafted) and still ended up as a Top 5 unit. The losses going into this year aren't as bad (mainly just 3 great guys). However, the 2018 defense was also a rung below the 2016 unit that finished #1 nationally. How will these parts add up? Can Don Brown pull it off again and keep the unit in the Top 5? I bet he can't but that he can keep them in the Top 10. We'll see if either or both of those are wrong.
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While not trying to tip their hand M still needs to get quality reps to the starters before UW.Specially going to Camp Randall.Surprised this is not a night game
Surprised that the UW-M one isn't a night game? I think Michigan will really benefit this year from the fact that the UW and PSU games are on FOX, which has stated it's broadcasting strategy will be to put its top games on at noon. Rumor has it the "White Out" will also be a noon game.
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Much better.
Threads are going to move very fast this time of the year, with all the different games pinned up top and all the game week topics.
So take a look around and then post.
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A convention! Ha - Sorry for missing it. Also I've never made a habit of following rules we call rules. Now, if you call them "conventions," strangely, I'm all in. ;)
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I'm going easy on you. ELA would tar and feather your keester.
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Michigan should theoretically overwhelm MTSU.
if Michigan doesn't win comfortably by 40 points and scores at will, something wrong brother. Michigan could be in for a looooong season if they struggle to win this one.
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Much better.
Threads are going to move very fast this time of the year, with all the different games pinned up top and all the game week topics.
So take a look around and then post.
OK - Michigan Sux
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Surprised that the UW-M one isn't a night game? I think Michigan will really benefit this year from the fact that the UW and PSU games are on FOX, which has stated it's broadcasting strategy will be to put its top games on at noon. Rumor has it the "White Out" will also be a noon game.
Oh so they save the late/drunk/mean crowds for the Buckeyes - bring it!
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Drunk, I can get behind. But late and mean? The Michigan-OSU game is always at noon. Also, while Michigan's stadium may be the largest, the giant crowd ranks average or low in terms of being rowdy. Michigan Stadium's reputation is as a calm, family-friendly place.
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Also, that "Fox Sports putting their best games at noon" thing probably deserves more conversation. I think it's a big deal.
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Drunk, I can get behind. But late and mean? The Michigan-OSU game is always at noon.
Talking about Happy Valley - Camp Randall been a while since the Buckeyes played a day game in those places.And M-OSU has been played at one for a while and 3:30 in '06(pretty sure)
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Also, that "Fox Sports putting their best games at noon" thing probably deserves more conversation. I think it's a big deal.
I think it's a bad deal
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Big Blue would have to turn the ball over at least five times in order for this to be a game.
Last year the Blue Raiders got waxed by Vandy and Georgia to start things off. They lost a one point game to Kentucky down the stretch. Florida International was the only CUSA team that tripped them up during the regular season. But then they dropped a home game to UAB in the CUSA CCG. Finally, they finished things off by getting smoked by Appy State in the New Orleans Bowl.
So the defending B1G East co-champs should have no trouble with the defending CUSA East outright champs. Unless of course some of that Appy State magic rubbed off on them. Which, it probably didn't.
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Talking about Happy Valley
Ah ah! Say no more. I misunderstood.
And M-OSU has been played at one for a while and 3:30 in '06(pretty sure)
I said *always,* didn't I? I was being careless with words (focusing on the recent) because you are right. I think the 2003 game was at 1PM and many others too.
1PM is my top preference, if we can ever get back to that. This game doesn't need the gimmick of primetime to be great. Noon ET is perfectly fitting, but 1PM ET is like a version of noon that's a small dose extra special.
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Big Blue...
Is IBM doing a pregame or something? ;)
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I think it's a bad deal
It's a personal preference. Aside from my bias for noon games this year because it slightly behooves my team @UW and @PSU, I have long prefered the kickoffs before 3:30PM ET. Just in general. This includes the noons, 1PM kicks, etc. ... heck there aren't any at 11AM ET, but I'd love that too. To me, *anything* 3:30 or later is less enjoyable. If it were my call, home or away, I'd always see my team play up front.
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here in the Central time zone, 11am is a bit early for me
back in my college years the early 80's most games were 1pm central
TV changed that, now I prefer the 2:30 kick central
the network is going for ratings, avoiding the other conference prime games at 2:30 may work. I don't like the idea of ducking the SEC, ACC, and Big 12.
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11ET would be 10AM for you. I wouldn't love it *because* you hate it, but I would love it anyway.
As for what Fox is doing, yes, I'm sure they're seeking a niche. But it isn't a Boise-State-on-Thursday kind of niche. It's more of a niche for helmets, as opposed to the kind of gimmick that lets unknown programs escape the normal window to appear on the radar in the first place. At the very worst, Fox's "forcing of noon" in 2019 is the same as the "forcing of primetime" we saw throughout CFB starting around the mid-2000s. And that's something you may have supported.
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here in the Central time zone, 11am is a bit early for me
The CTZ would kind of blow for fans of the early eastern games.On the bright side you can catch the PAC After Dark
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Also, that "Fox Sports putting their best games at noon" thing probably deserves more conversation. I think it's a big deal.
I think it sucks.
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Is IBM doing a pregame or something? ;)
Baxter Healthcare.
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11ET would be 10AM for you. I wouldn't love it *because* you hate it, but I would love it anyway.
As for what Fox is doing, yes, I'm sure they're seeking a niche. But it isn't a Boise-State-on-Thursday kind of niche. It's more of a niche for helmets, as opposed to the kind of gimmick that lets unknown programs escape the normal window to appear on the radar in the first place. At the very worst, Fox's "forcing of noon" in 2019 is the same as the "forcing of primetime" we saw throughout CFB starting around the mid-2000s. And that's something you may have supported.
Agree 100%
Prime time isn't even a big deal anymore. Michigan-Middle Tennessee is Prime Time Week 1. MSU opens with a pair of prime time games against Tulsa and Western Michigan.
I love, love, love, love noon games. But even if you don't, don't you simply enjoy not having every good game on at the same time? Moving a game to prime time was a big deal because it was different, and because you put all the yeballs on it. Now there are a dozen a week, so you don't even get the eyeballs. Instead, you are stuck watching Illinois-Indiana at noon, for lack of options, and trying to flip between 4 big games in prime time. I'd rather spread the games out.
Plus no prime time game has ever matched a 3:30 game with the sun setting going into the 4th quarter as far as big time feel goes. That just feels like a 90s marquee ABC game to me.
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I'm quietly hopeful we get a better day of Saturday with more good day games. Some of those dogs where you got snoozers all day, then 4 good games all at the same time at night (which is by far the worst time for a college football game) were brutal.
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I think it sucks.
Because -- home or away -- you always prefer to watch UW at night? Or is it that you like noon games just fine but also wish UW had more control here?
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Because -- home or away -- you always prefer to watch UW at night? Or is it that you like noon games just fine but also wish UW had more control here?
He likes the Late Games - Camp Randall turns into "Nightmare on Elm Street" specially when the Buckeyes pay a visit.Wish they could be pleasant and kind - like the Columbus Crowds :106:
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Fox's forcing of noon is saying we can't compete with the ACC, SEC, and Big 12 at 3:30 or maybe it's we can't compete with ESPN?
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Oddly enough, I'm one of those weird West Coasters who likes the noon kicks, even though it's 9 AM for me.
I get to sit around, have my coffee while watching Gameday, and then get right into football. Why wait until noon and waste the whole morning on non-football activities?
Likewise, this means that the "Primetime" games are on at 5:30 PM, which is pretty much prime football-watching time. I don't necessarily want a game to kick off at 8:30 PM and not finish until midnight. If there's a compelling Pac12 After Dark game, I might stay up for it, but having a 5:30 kickoff that finishes around 9 PM allows me to wind down and go to bed. I'm a man. I'm 41. Staying up until midnight is a pain.
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Because -- home or away -- you always prefer to watch UW at night? Or is it that you like noon games just fine but also wish UW had more control here?
Now that I no longer attend, I like watching night games at Camp Randall. Plus, it's a nightmare for other teams.
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Fox's forcing of noon is saying we can't compete with the ACC, SEC, and Big 12 at 3:30 or maybe it's we can't compete with ESPN?
Like I said, I disagree. This isn't a creative/cowardly TV niche like Boise State on Thursday was. This is helmets reconcentrating around noon in 2019 in the same way that over-many teams moved to night games in the mid-2000s. Like ELA and Max, I'm also excited for good games to be spread out throughout the day, rather than put all at once.
I think the best argument to dislike this Fox policy isn't about being sad about noon in general but how it specifically removes control from the hosts. But for a better outcome, I think it's worth it for that to be the way the cookie crumbles.
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I and Fox hope you are right and the ratings reflect it.
I really don't mind an 11am game. Bloody Mary's, brats for lunch during halftime and time for a round of gold post-game.
This of course, if I'm staying home to watch
11AM is a bit too early for getting to the stadium - oh I can manage it fine, but it's not ideal. Not ideal for the bars and restaurants and other vendors.
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11AM is a bit too early for getting to the stadium - oh I can manage it fine, but it's not ideal. Not ideal for the bars and restaurants and other vendors.
Eh, depends, I think you have a better chance to get two crowds with the early start. Late start you lose a lot of people to tailgating
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tailgaters gonna tailgate
regardless of kickoff
bars don't open until 10am in Lincoln, not enuff time for pre-game
gotta mix your own bloody
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tailgaters gonna tailgate
regardless of kickoff
bars don't open until 10am in Lincoln, not enuff time for pre-game
gotta mix your own bloody
Yeah, but a lot of people who don't host a tailgate will still hit one pregame, then go out after the game. I'm one of those people. Early starts those tailgaters are tailgating while the bars are closed anyway. Then after the game you still have plenty of time to go out. So the bars get the people coming in for the game, and the people coming in later. For the primetime kicks they don't get that.
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If there's a compelling Pac12 After Dark game, I might stay up for it, but having a 5:30 kickoff that finishes around 9 PM allows me to wind down and go to bed. I'm a man. I'm 41. Staying up until midnight is a pain.
If you got more malt into your diet it would introduce more manly hormones into your bloodstream and this wouldn't be such an obstacle.Or you could try coffee - black
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Our tailgates used to start at 5AM, when we used to have to fight for spots. Then we rented our own lot and all was good. Started at more like 7-7:30, with daylight.
I got to a point where I didn't drink before games. Night games were a bitch for that, but I was probably the only guy in stadium who didn't have a hangover at halftime.
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Now that I no longer attend, I like watching night games at Camp Randall. Plus, it's a nightmare for other teams.
Who toldja that?
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I got to a point where I didn't drink before games. Night games were a bitch for that, but I was probably the only guy in stadium who didn't have a hangover at halftime.
That's always the Problem,some people nap then get blottoed the 2nd time in one day - the Delta's would be proud
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If you got more malt into your diet it would introduce more manly hormones into your bloodstream and this wouldn't be such an obstacle.Or you could try coffee - black
Quite literally the only liquids I regularly drink are black coffee, water, and fermented hopped malted beverages.
The problem is the exact opposite... After enough malt in my diet, going to bed before 10 sounds like a great idea. I drink beer, not smoke meth. It's a depressant.
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This game has a 34 point spread for a reason. Middle Tennessee was decent last year, but they also lost a lot, especially on offense. Hopefully Michigan gets a big lead early, proves it can run the spread offense effectively, and can take out the starters by half time along with avoiding any injuries, of course.
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Quite literally the only liquids I regularly drink are black coffee, water, and fermented hopped malted beverages.
The problem is the exact opposite... After enough malt in my diet, going to bed before 10 sounds like a great idea. I drink beer, not smoke meth. It's a depressant.
I detect the prescence of IPA's those over hopped bastardizations do it every time
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This game has a 34 point spread for a reason. Middle Tennessee was decent last year, but they also lost a lot, especially on offense. Hopefully Michigan gets a big lead early, proves it can run the spread offense effectively, and can take out the starters by half time along with avoiding any injuries, of course.
All I want to see in this game is the offense putting the foot on the gas pedal and not letting up. Trying everything and anything. Working out as many kinks in the new system as possible. Leave the starters in all game long. None of this take them out at the half bs. They need the work against the live bullets. If Shea doesn't throw the ball 40 times this game I'm going to be kind of pissed. Let him go out there and sling it all game long and work on timing with his receivers vs live bullets. They've got the first two games to do that. Screw that sit everyone at half time crap.
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Pro Football Focus article on Josh Gattis and how he could help change Michigan's offense.
https://www.pff.com/news/college-how-new-offensive-coordinator-josh-gattis-can-transform-michigans-identity (https://www.pff.com/news/college-how-new-offensive-coordinator-josh-gattis-can-transform-michigans-identity)
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All I want to see in this game is the offense putting the foot on the gas pedal and not letting up. Trying everything and anything. Working out as many kinks in the new system as possible. Leave the starters in all game long. None of this take them out at the half bs. They need the work against the live bullets. If Shea doesn't throw the ball 40 times this game I'm going to be kind of pissed. Let him go out there and sling it all game long and work on timing with his receivers vs live bullets. They've got the first two games to do that. Screw that sit everyone at half time crap.
I agree with most of this. I'd like to see at least 6 targets each for Collins/Black/DPJ and plural targets each for Ronnie Bell, Sainristil and Giles Jackson. And in some passes to the tailbacks and it may well lead to 40 passes. But getting pissed if it ends up a few below that is a few steps away from giving up on the team early.
The colored-bold parrts are dead on, though. Even if Gattis is great and the offensive roster melds perfectly with him, there's way too much to practice in a live game to slow down and coast.
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Pro Football Focus article on Josh Gattis and how he could help change Michigan's offense.
https://www.pff.com/news/college-how-new-offensive-coordinator-josh-gattis-can-transform-michigans-identity (https://www.pff.com/news/college-how-new-offensive-coordinator-josh-gattis-can-transform-michigans-identity)
Thanks for the link. It's pretty long, but this short section seems especially relevant. I'll color code what I think are significant keys:
[copy/paste from source]
MICHIGAN’S OUTLOOK
First and foremost, Gattis should inject pace into a Michigan offense that wasn’t very fast last season — 24% of Michigan’s offensive snaps came with the play clock at five seconds or less (most in Big Ten, 10th in FBS). As a point of comparison, only 10% of Alabama’s offensive snaps reached the five-second mark last season.
Michigan’s offense is flowing with talented players who are well-equipped to flourish in a modernized offensive scheme. Gattis has preached his “speed in space” mantra all offseason, which will likely translate into more 11 personnel, RPOs and slot usage.
Michigan used 11 personnel on just 35% of snaps last season, the second-lowest rate in the Big Ten (trailing only Iowa) and significantly lower than the 51% FBS average. Michigan’s solid 77.2 offense grade (third in Big Ten, 41st in FBS) in 11 personnel sets suggests they can handle the inevitable Gattis uptick. However, Gattis is unlikely to completely abandon 12 personnel, as it has been integral to the Michigan offense (42% of offensive snaps in 2017) during the Harbaugh tenure.
Last season, Michigan ran just 129 RPOs (89th most in FBS) with 93 runs and 32 passes. Despite a predictable 3:1 run rate, Michigan racked up a sizeable 7.3 rushing yards per attempt (third in FBS). They were even better on those 32 pass attempts, recording a 90.0 offense grade, best in the entire nation. Incumbent starting QB Shea Patterson has a skill set tailor-made for RPOs and recorded a 90.0 passing grade (second among FBS quarterbacks) with a stellar 133.5 passer rating (fifth). If Gattis decides to unleash Patterson, RPOs could become a staple of the Michigan offense.
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yeah, reading the article it's pretty depressing just how far behind Michigan's stone age offense really is. Harbaugh needs to just stay the F out and let Gattis do his thing.
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The main thing about the purple paragraph is that, wow, Michigan was excellent at RPOs last year. It's amazing how seldom they went to it. When something essentially never fails, you aren't doing it enough.** In any event, that should make the transition far more natural than many expect.
**(This reminds me of an analogous but separate argument that Patterson was being too careful last year: Just like you know you're maximizing your QB's knack for challenging throws if he's giving up a couple more INTs, you know you're getting the most out of your RPO offense if, at least sometimes, it doesn't work. If something is working out every time, that means you aren't doing it nearly enough)
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The main thing about the purple paragraph is that, wow, Michigan was excellent at RPOs last year. It's amazing how seldom they went to it. When something essentially never fails, you aren't doing it enough.** In any event, that should make the transition far more natural than many expect.
Really?
I think that was the most consistent criticism. That he'd be rolling Patterson out, maximizing his ability, then suddenly go away from it and put the offense in 3rd and long.
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(1) RPOs weren't the only aspect of the offense set to make decisions out of the pocket
(2) As the article mentioned (purple text), Michigan's 2018 RPOs (despite being 89th most frequent in FBS) were measurably successful -- 3rd best in the country in RPO rushing (7.3 YPC) and the nation's best passing grade and fifth best passer rating on RPO passes.
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(1) RPOs weren't the only aspect of the offense set to make decisions out of the pocket
(2) As the article mentioned (purple text), Michigan's 2018 RPOs (despite being 89th most frequent in FBS) were measurably successful -- 3rd best in the country in RPO rushing (7.3 YPC) and the nation's best passing grade and fifth best passer rating on RPO passes.
Yeah, that's what I'm saying, that it isn't new information. We were saying all last year that UM looked good on RPOs, and then they'd abandon them.
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Ah, then we agree. It was widely known last year. I was just re-emphasizing. That seemed worth doing since there's an undercurrent of opinion among many outsiders that Michigan is switching to something it's unlikely to be good at right away.
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re-watched the game, and honestly it was tough to watch. That game was 40-14 to me. I know it was 40-21, but Middle Tennessee St scored a flukeish long TD with about a minute left to go with their 1st team offense still in the game against the 2nd and 3rd team defense.
Game should've been 55-7, but dumb plays from the players and poor coaching by Harbaugh caused what was a blowout that was never in doubt vs an inferior team appear closer than it actually was.
Let's get right to the dumb plays. Patterson fumbles the ball on the very first play giving MTSU excellent field position and sets up their first TD. Ronnie Bell drops a TD that hits him right in the hands. Ronnie Bell drops a couple other balls that looked very catchable to me. LaVert Hill drops a walk-in pick 6. LaVert Hill muffs a punt and gives MTSU excellent field position and sets up their final legit TD of the game. Sean McKeon drops a catch that hits him in both hands that would've set Michigan up with a 1st goal or damn near close to it. These are mistakes that just can't happen. Elite teams don't have this many sloppy plays in a single game.
Harbaugh is a dumb coach and his teams reflect that. They just do dumb shit. Often. And he does dumb shit and makes dumb personnel decisions all of the time. Like wtf is LaVert Hill even doing back there returning punts? That's just stupid. One he's too valueable, two he's not a threat to house a punt, three he's barely ever done it, and four there are guys on that roster that are way better options than him. Harbaugh is just dumb. I'm 100% convinced of that. Idiot savant is probably the correct term for him.
Some bullet points...
1) Zach Chabornnet looks SPECIAL. Hate to say it, and it's way too soon to be saying this- but he kinda reminds me of Zeke the Freak from that school down south. Just a complete back that can pass block and explodes between the tackles hard. His pass blocking for a true frosh is insane. MTSU blitzed god damn near ever play, and he picked everything up without a hitch. He reminds me of Zeke in that regard so much it's scary. Also reminds me of Zeke in that he doesn't dance at all- just gets north/south, has a great little jump cut, doesn't shy away from contact, runs through people yet is light on his feet for a bigger back and has great burst/juice. It was a joke that he only got 8 carries. How the F is Dylan McCaffrey getting more carries in a game than Chabornnet? That is ridiculous.
2) Christian Turner looks like a really solid back-up. RB might actually turn into a strength. Dances a little too much- nowhere near the physical specimen and didn't display the pass block chops that true frosh Zach Chabornnet seems to just be born with- but Turner has a great burst and lightning in his feet. He hits top speed in a hurry- and while he's similar sized to Higdon- he is significantly quicker and faster than Higdon. Giving snaps/carries to ANY OTHER RB's except these two is a complete and utter waste of time. Charbonnet needs to be the starter, Turner only needs to come in to spell him, and Tru Wilson should come in on pass downs to block whenever Charbonnet needs a breather. Wilson shouldn't be carrying the football. Charbonnet needs like 90% of the carries and Turner the other 10%. ANYONE ELSE carrying the ball is a complete waste of time and stupid.
3) Tarik Black and Nico Collins are pretty god damn good man. Ronnie Bell ain't too shabby either- he's a great athlete and has great burst but he has to CATCH THE DAMN BALL. Cornelius Johnson even came in and really flashed. That one handed catch he made for the first down- ridiculous. This WR crew could be SCARY whenever DPJ gets backs and whenver Ronnie Bell decides to CATCH THE DAMN BALL.
4) PLEANSANTLY surprised by the RS Frosh offensive tackles. Mayfield and Hayes are going to be BIG TIME methinks. Like high NFL draft picks big-time. Sky is the limit for both of them.
5) This two QB thing is stupid AF and needs to end immediately. The stupid trick gimmick plays with both DO NOT WORK and Shea will get into a rythm and Harbaugh's DUMBASS will pull him- put in McCaffrey FOR NO REASON WHATSOEVER and mess up with the flow. The idiot needed to hand over the keys COMPLETELY to Gattis. He CLEARLY hasn't.
6) These safeties suck and all of the touchdowns were 100% on them. START DAX HILL. Let him get his feet wet right now and take the lumps now- by the end of the season you just might have the best safety in the conference. He is THAT talented. They don't have a safety on the roster remotely close to him in ability. They haven't in only oh- like EVER. The DT's also stink but that's because they are playing a FB at DT and another guy at DT in Carlo Kemp that just isn't that good. Jeter and Dwumfour need to get back ASAP and take over the starting roles- Kemp needs to come off the bench and Mason needs to go back to FB ASAP and the frosh DT's Hinton and Mazi Smith need to get serious minutes ASAP.
7) CB's looked fantastic. Vincent Gray was a revelation. Ambry Thomas looked incredible for a guy who missed all of fall camp and lost 25 pounds due to a serious illness. He GOOD. LaVert Hill is still LaVert Hill.
8) DE's and LB's didn't show too much. They were AIGHT. Khaleke Hudson continues to be a disappointment. ALWAYS in position- yet fails to make the play. IDK WTF happened to him- but he was amazing as a sophomore, fell off the map as a junior, and had a pretty piss poor opening as a senior. I have no idea what's going on there. It's baffling. Jordan Glasgow actually looked quite good at LB'er. Never bet against a Glasgow brother. Graham walked on, earned a scholarship and became the best center Michigan had in like a decade and a 3rd round NFL draft pick. Ryan walked on, earned a scholarship and became an unbelievable NT on defense and a 3rd round NFL draft pick. The youngest Glasgow walked on, earned a scholarship and it sure as hell looks like he can play some football too.
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It looked like a sloppy first game. My concerns are limited to the middle of the DL and of course the OL when Michigan plays someone with a great DL. Not much to be done about the DL until Dwumfour and Jeter return.