The medium might have changed, but the sensationalism really hasn't. Ever hear the term "yellow journalism?" "Spanish-American War ring any bells?" That was over 100 years ago.What is sensational about a list?
Same as it ever was.
<iframe width="884" height="497" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/5ic6WpfbTGY" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture" allowfullscreen></iframe>
Does anyone know when "tail gating" really started?I've heard about the "start" being in Green Bay, as early as in their first season. Some say it started at Yale.
I'd say so, for sure.
I suspect for many it would be cheaper to dine at the best restaurant in town before a game.
What is sensational about a list?
Or is it that we can’t stop reading lists, and therefore companies provide us with what we want?
(I mean, I might quibble with the order, but outside No. 10, there are nine generally classic traditions in there. My school’s is not, and I’m super fine with it)
For sure. I can't believe the people in Madison are not jumping around about this.
The turnover chain is probably on here because so many other schools copied it with their own turnover apparatus...including Tennessee's comical attempt.It’s not original to Miami anyway.
(https://i.imgur.com/0mNP2HF.jpg)
Grass is OK, so long as there is no rain or snow. I'll take pavement any time for that reason alone.
Eh, I think '95 is way way off. I know it is a different, but Brewers fans have tailgated in the parking lot outside County Stadium, and now Miller Park since before I can remember (and that's '80). Groups would set up 'beer tents' like they do at local Catholic Church Parishes around Milwaukee for festivals. These would be hammered into the parking lot surface with stakes, etc.Yeah I'm not sure that's the same. When did it start in Lincoln, with all of the tents/canopies? That's much closer to what we're talking about.
They have also had charcoal ash disposal containers all over the lots since at least the 80s. People might not have had satellite dishes, and logo'd tents, but tailgating with big beer tents has been a regular activity in my parts for a long long time. the fancier kind also had a food buffet tent.
Tailgating always just seemed like too much work for me. Don’t get me wrong, I’ve attended tailgates and enjoyed them but when I’m done with my beer and burger I can just walk away and go to my seat or walk around or whatever.It is a lot of work. A LOT LOT LOT of work.
I see these guys packing coolers, and tents, and grills and it just seems like a ton of trouble. And then after you get it all unpacked you have to pack it back up and take it home. I always just preferred to find a watering hole near the stadium and belly up there until game time.
I can't speak to Lincoln, attended my first home game in 1985 (vs New Mexico) and then not until '91, both times I stayed in Omaha, and while people were tailgating, it wasn't a coordinated, branded, dedicated production, just all of the one offs with a grill and a few folding chairs. For the record, I don't remember seeing any tailgating for my first ever college game, Nebraska at Hawaii in '82.
I still stress it was a big production at County Stadium for years and years, porta johns, bands, stages and lots of beer tents, permanently installed grill facilities. Not every single game mind you, but quite a few. In many respects, not entirely though, that's why Miller Park was built where it is, and not downtown. Tailgating was a big consideration.
I'm sure it didn't spring up one day from nothing. The literal TGing was as I describe, pickup trucks with a cooler and sandwiches, really not much of a thing. I don't know when the tents started to happen. We can probably estimate when TVs started to happen because they'd have to be flat panel or little 13" battery powered jobs earlier than that. I'm not lugging some 32 inch tube set very far at all.
One can imagine as pickup trucks got fancier, the better off fans bought nice ones and could hook up fans and small TVs and bring a small grill etc., then a foldable tent, and viola.
I was pondering if it's old enough to be a tradition, but it's so endemic now, I'd say yes.
I follow you Utee, but these were not sponsored by corps. or teams. You paid the Brewers/County for the space you needed, and probably a tent permit and the public could do it. Local taverns really started taking advantage of getting these, with little shuttle bus groups coming in, and eventually the Taverns got their own 'bus lot' for tavern tailgates. You didn't take your kids over there. In my early 20s, that's how I would choose to go to Opening Day, meet at the tavern at 7 am for a bloody mary and head out to the stadium by 8. Yes, other dates in April and May didn't see a ton of groups, certainly not weeknights, but that was/is a common way people would do the tailgate during the season.
There were three large plots on the parking grounds where these large tailgates were told to set up. This spawned over too many make-shift tents going up, which made getting in and out of spots a problem. The grounds were run by the County, and they did permanently install the charcoal ash bins all over the lots so people wouldn't pour them into the trash cans and start fires. People would hire and bring their own portable johns until the City/county started putting them out there, presumably to keep people from taking a knee behind the car. It wasn't at all branded by the Brewers, they just made it easier for people to organize large groups, with the one offs doing their own thing in most of the rest of the parking lot. For a year or two (much later) they threatened to only allow patrons with game tickets to buy parking passes on big dates, like Opening Day, and certain weekend dates, as a lot of people wouldn't attend the game. (sounds familiar).
I had the 13" battery powered TV
also started borrowing a portable Honda generator from work to run the TV and the Satellite dish and camper
So, are we talking about Bar/company/corporate sponsored areas, or private 5 -10 folks gathered near the stadium?
Her's a pic from 1978 at County Stadium. I wouldn't call this a corporate tailgate.(https://www.gannett-cdn.com/presto/2019/03/26/PMJS/94c1f51a-3e05-43a8-aa6d-80c484307e94-opener_1978_4-7.jpg?crop=3783,2849,x103,y103&width=1280)
I can only imagine the women and children camped out by the battleground at Fort Sumter, ladies sipping on their mint juleps before watching the men start slaughtering each other...I believe no one died at Fort Sumter. Maybe one.
ok, here's when it got out of hand.
a link to Brewers tailgating throughout the years.
https://www.jsonline.com/picture-gallery/life/green-sheet/2019/03/26/check-out-just-about-every-milwaukee-brewers-home-opening-day-ever-county-stadium-miller-park/3276448002/ (https://www.jsonline.com/picture-gallery/life/green-sheet/2019/03/26/check-out-just-about-every-milwaukee-brewers-home-opening-day-ever-county-stadium-miller-park/3276448002/)
(https://www.gannett-cdn.com/presto/2019/03/26/PMJS/f0ce28be-46dc-4571-95c2-f1065587bcf2-opener_2007_4-2.JPG?width=1280)
Smarty pants prof at UC Irvine says tailgating originates in the Civil War era.I had a college professor say the same
https://www.wuwm.com/post/tailgatings-unusual-origin-story#stream/0 (https://www.wuwm.com/post/tailgatings-unusual-origin-story#stream/0)
Her's a pic from 1978 at County Stadium. I wouldn't call this a corporate tailgate.(https://www.gannett-cdn.com/presto/2019/03/26/PMJS/94c1f51a-3e05-43a8-aa6d-80c484307e94-opener_1978_4-7.jpg?crop=3783,2849,x103,y103&width=1280)those were the daze
Tailgating and picnicking to me are very different things.true, but picnicking can happen at a tailgate party
Tailgating is a form of picnicking, but picnicking generally is not tailgating.
still killing birds and wasting helium in lincolnAt least the sea turtles are safe...
(https://bloximages.chicago2.vip.townnews.com/journalstar.com/content/tncms/assets/v3/editorial/8/95/895eafa4-4895-5a2a-9c54-610370a1c67e/502994caa723c.image.jpg?resize=400%2C266)
Did not know it was pronounced Mikey Stadium. I've only ever seen it referenced in print, and not spoken, I suppose...Berry Tramel, the great (seriously) sportswriter for the Oklahoman, pronounces it "Mitchie" and says it's nestled in the Catskills. He's wrong on both counts. West Point is in the Hudson Highlands. The Catskills are further north.
Berry Tramel, the great (seriously) sportswriter for the Oklahoman, pronounces it "Mitchie" and says it's nestled in the Catskills. He's wrong on both counts. West Point is in the Hudson Highlands. The Catskills are further north.That’s a great shot. When I think of college football I think of days like that.
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/f/fc/Michie_Stadium_South.jpg/1280px-Michie_Stadium_South.jpg)
Michie Stadium, 1 November 2008, Army hosting Air Force, looking roughly southward. That's Lusk Reservoir just to the east of the stadium, and the beautiful, and I mean beautiful, Hudson River beyond that.
The two parking lots visible east and southeast of the stadium would have some tailgating going on around the periphery.
That’s a great shot. When I think of college football I think of days like that.Yup or it could be the gray skies of late November threatening snow
I would imagine that the experts that come out with the preseason polls have done plenty of homework - returning talent, strength of schedule, how they fared last season (yeah yeah, new year, new team, but often times teams don't change THAT much, barring coaching changes or a much-ballyhooed QB transfer), etc. There isn't an exact science, but I'd wager that they're probably a lot closer than what we give them credit for.
What they can't account for are the injuries, suspensions, chemistry (or lack thereof), poor play, poor officiating, crappy weather, etc. that can ruin a game or even a season.
But hey, we get to argue all preseason, and then all season long, about what some yahoo thinks of our teams, so I guess it serves its purpose anyway. :)When you get right down to it that's what it's really about.Keeping fan interst,passing the time and making some coin.It' a win-win for the pollsters
Well first, I'm not sure I can agree with even your initial point. The coaches certainly don't spend a ton of time evaluating all 100+ D1-A teams and slotting them into their top 25. Most of them don't even vote, they leave it to assistants, interns, etc. And those assistants and interns don't spend much time either, they have actual real jobs to worry about.
AP voters might be slightly better, but the obvious regional biases in their rankings are well documented over the years.
The computer rankings don't really "do homework" because they're largely straight algorithms.
I guess some of the other various publications might put more effort into their rankings, Phil Steele and the other ones out there. But those aren't the rankings that anyone's using when they advertise "Two Top 25 teams in the B1G square off this Saturday!!!!!" so really anything that's not AP, coaches' poll, or CFP rankings, is pretty irrelevant to the way matchups are understood throughout the season.
But even if we accept that these entities DO perform such due diligence, they're still only right about half the time, so it's a fairly pointless exercise regardless of how much effort goes into it.
But hey, we get to argue all preseason, and then all season long, about what some yahoo thinks of our teams, so I guess it serves its purpose anyway. :)
Gator said Michie Stadium was the prettiest he had ever seen. And he'd seen a few.I remember the deal with #2. I don't remember if the indoctrination was pro-WP or anti. I think I remember anti, but memory is increasingly fallible.
Kid #2 turned down a chance to attend WP. Was kind of being indoctrinated a bit at the time.
That sounds like a trip to be taken.
One of our longest "traditions" is preseason polls, and discussions thereof.Cincy, Dawg, my man.
Last year, 11 out of 25 ended up unranked.
So, our "experts" are right half the time, slightly better than.
I had the AP voters in mind, specifically. They're not perfect by any means, but they are still less biased/ignorant than those who participate in the coaches poll (would the average Coaches Poll voter be able to tell you who's coaching UCF without looking it up?).Sort of, but with a caveat.
Being an AP voter is a lot like being a meteorologist. They know their field a lot better than the average armchair weatherman/quarterback, but they base their predictions off patterns. They don't always anticipate factors which may change their predictions, but just because they're not always right doesn't mean that they're unqualified.
Well first, I'm not sure I can agree with even your initial point. The coaches certainly don't spend a ton of time evaluating all 100+ D1-A teams and slotting them into their top 25. Most of them don't even vote, they leave it to assistants, interns, etc. And those assistants and interns don't spend much time either, they have actual real jobs to worry about.Bingo. The general we wants it, and someone will be there to provide.
AP voters might be slightly better, but the obvious regional biases in their rankings are well documented over the years.
The computer rankings don't really "do homework" because they're largely straight algorithms.
I guess some of the other various publications might put more effort into their rankings, Phil Steele and the other ones out there. But those aren't the rankings that anyone's using when they advertise "Two Top 25 teams in the B1G square off this Saturday!!!!!" so really anything that's not AP, coaches' poll, or CFP rankings, is pretty irrelevant to the way matchups are understood throughout the season.
But even if we accept that these entities DO perform such due diligence, they're still only right about half the time, so it's a fairly pointless exercise regardless of how much effort goes into it.
But hey, we get to argue all preseason, and then all season long, about what some yahoo thinks of our teams, so I guess it serves its purpose anyway. :)
Sort of, but with a caveat.
An AP voter is like a meteorologist who drove all over your town chasing storms. Came back to the station to do 45 minutes on everything that happened with local storms and then must stop, spend a short amount of time absorbing all the data from national trackers and then do a national weather breakdown. That person might do OK, but whatever they do in that national thing, it won't be highly nuanced or unique.
I mean, the answer to my rhetorical question above is, of course, so that we can all argue about it. But I prefer to argue about arguing about it, which is why I take this stance. ;)Considering that diatribe you should have been a contract Lawyer,speech writer or at least go sit with Fearless.Anyway you need to read the Forum Rules on Pot Stirring it is strictly prohibited.And violators will be subject to rigorous penalties and/or expulsion at least when and if they put me in charge
Well put. Some of the AP voteres are nationallly focused, but most of them are highly regional. It colors their perspective. Even if they're trying hard to be unbiased, they just can't help it, because you know what you know, and you don't know what you don't know.And yet, you are on record--as am I--favoring the old "Polls 'n' Bowls" method of selecting the national champion rather than what the newer methods are evolving into.
I no longer have the time to follow college football as I did in my teens, 20s, and even early 30s. But at that time, I have zero doubt that I knew more about the national sport of college football than the vast majority of AP voters did. It's just a matter of time, focuse, and dedication. They have no choice but to use supposition and heuristics to fill in the gaps that they just don't have the time to know.
And even after ALL of that effort, they're still only getting it right about half the time. Whether it's because they're intentionally biased, accidentally biased, or don't have the time to track injuries/coaching changes/etc. as fezzador believes, ultimately it doesn't matter. Because the product of their efforts is severely flawed either way. If it's inevitably so very, very wrong, then what's the point in even performing the exercise, or for us, watching and evaluating the result of the exercise?
I mean, the answer to my rhetorical question above is, of course, so that we can all argue about it. But I prefer to argue about arguing about it, which is why I take this stance. ;)
And yet, you are on record--as am I--favoring the old "Polls 'n' Bowls" method of selecting the national champion rather than what the newer methods are evolving into.Oh yeah, for sure!
I should just invest in Bud fatplayed the high falutin course yesterday
6250 yards from the old guys green box - not long enough for a youngster like myselfNo doubt and I'm sure you hear that alot :D