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Area-51 Skunk Works => AREA-51 ~NON-MODERATED~ => Topic started by: DunkingDan on August 12, 2019, 08:13:19 PM

Title: Netherlands and Belgium are Euthanizing Mentally Ill Patients and
Post by: DunkingDan on August 12, 2019, 08:13:19 PM
Harvesting Their Organs

In my very first anti-euthanasia column, published by Newsweek (https://www.newsweek.com/whispers-strangers-193804) in 1993, I worried that once medicalized killing became accepted, it would soon be joined by “organ harvesting as a plum to society.”
“Alarmist!” I was called. “Slippery slope arguer!” It will never happen, I was assured.

Until it did.

Now in both Netherlands and Belgium, mentally ill and disabled patients (https://www.nationalreview.com/human-exceptionalism/357247/hunt-disabled-euthanasia-organ-donors-wesley-j-smith) are voluntarily euthanized and their organs harvested after being killed. Canada is discussing joining the infamous duo.

I have waited for the organ transplant community to rise up and reject conjoining killing and organ donation. It has been a wait mostly in vain.

Indeed, a letter in the current Journal of the American Medical Association (https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/article-abstract/2647862) merely warns against haste in widely instituting such a policy due to safety concerns:

Quote
I urge caution before this practice is widely accepted. First, only short-term functional outcomes immediately after transplantation and at 6 months are available. Second, warm ischemia, an inevitable consequence of organ donation after cardiac death, results in greater risk for transplanted organs…
There is a need to study long-term outcomes of transplanted organs resulting from euthanasia so that truly informed consent can be obtained.

How starkly utilitarian can you get?

If all that matters is consent–the clear implication of this letter–why would donors have to be suffering sufficiently to qualify for euthanasia?
Indeed, why not let healthy people who simply want to die and believe others–who want to live–have a greater claim on their livers and hearts volunteer to be killed and harvested?
More at link (https://www.lifenews.com/2017/08/09/netherlands-and-belgium-are-euthanizing-mentally-ill-patients-and-harvesting-their-organs/?fbclid=IwAR1U-uNkY8RWKYiH6D4g0TwENYFq9t5RvjiIWhG_YwtpTkHWQ88R0yZ5t6I)

Title: Re: Netherlands and Belgium are Euthanizing Mentally Ill Patients and
Post by: TREX on August 13, 2019, 06:39:52 AM
Anybody?
Title: Re: Netherlands and Belgium are Euthanizing Mentally Ill Patients and
Post by: VolRage on August 13, 2019, 08:16:39 AM
So they’re euthanizing their progressive liberal lunatics? I won’t advocate doing that in America. We’ll just ship ours to them.
Title: Re: Netherlands and Belgium are Euthanizing Mentally Ill Patients and
Post by: roadvol on August 13, 2019, 08:52:07 AM
Don't laugh...if we ever get Single Payer healthcare here  you can expect more of the same.
Free government paid healthcare is unaffordable.
To help eliminate some of the burden there will be no treatment for seniors over a certain age or anyone with expensive cancer and other terminal illnesses......not cost effective for the pencil pushers in DC.
Title: Re: Netherlands and Belgium are Euthanizing Mentally Ill Patients and
Post by: fuzzynavol on August 13, 2019, 09:00:01 AM
To help eliminate some of the burden there will be no treatment for seniors over a certain age or anyone with expensive cancer and other terminal illnesses......not cost effective for the pencil pushers in DC.
You already tried this lie with the Affordable Care Act.  Didn't work.  
Title: Re: Netherlands and Belgium are Euthanizing Mentally Ill Patients and
Post by: Cincydawg on August 13, 2019, 09:05:07 AM
In my experience, our current health insurance companies "manage" treatment, not to this extent obviously, but they do limit who we can see, how often, etc.

We do pay a lot more for health care in the US than in other countries who have comparable statistical outcomes.
Title: Re: Netherlands and Belgium are Euthanizing Mentally Ill Patients and
Post by: roadvol on August 13, 2019, 09:16:49 AM
What lie?
It wasn't a lie then and it's not a lie now.
Single payer healthcare could add between $ 1.2- $1-4 trillion to the budget ( and that's not counting paying healthcare for illegal aliens.)
When less than 50% adults pay taxes now and over 51% of the population receives some type of government assistance where is the money coming from?
It's not cost effective to treat the elderly or terminally ill so they will be the first to be sacrificed to government utopia.
Title: Re: Netherlands and Belgium are Euthanizing Mentally Ill Patients and
Post by: VolRage on August 13, 2019, 09:28:37 AM
You already tried this lie with the Affordable Care Act.  Didn't work. 
Fuzz, are you claiming that Canada doesn’t slow roll cancer treatment or treatment for the elderly? You might want to research that position a little more. It can take more than 18 months to see a doctor about a serious issue in Canada and you want the same for Americans. Are you insane? Never mind. Most insane folks don’t know their insane.
Title: Re: Netherlands and Belgium are Euthanizing Mentally Ill Patients and
Post by: roadvol on August 13, 2019, 09:32:29 AM
He might want to check the flood of people crossing the Canadian border seeking healthcare treatment in the US.
I guess we could always go to Mexico if we're over 65 or we need cancer treatment;)
Title: Re: Netherlands and Belgium are Euthanizing Mentally Ill Patients and
Post by: DunkingDan on August 13, 2019, 09:39:57 AM
He might want to check the flood of people crossing the Canadian border seeking healthcare treatment in the US.
I guess we could always go to Mexico if we're over 65 or we need cancer treatment;)
They have impacted the speed at which you can get certain test or procedures done here in NEPA. As a result medical facilities are expanding and hiring new staff.

Yes you can find some closing as some facilities are outdated and some groups are congregating in areas that allow for more  growth parking, etc coupled with increasing problems in smaller more remote locations.
 
Title: Re: Netherlands and Belgium are Euthanizing Mentally Ill Patients and
Post by: DunkingDan on August 13, 2019, 09:45:18 AM
In my experience, our current health insurance companies "manage" treatment, not to this extent obviously, but they do limit who we can see, how often, etc.

We do pay a lot more for health care in the US than in other countries who have comparable statistical outcomes.
From previous post from a series IBD ran
Nearly 10% of the cost of health care services, figures PricewaterhouseCoopers, is attributable to medical malpractice lawsuits. Roughly 2% is caused by direct costs of the lawsuits while an additional 5% to 9% is due to expenses run up by defensive medicine.
PricewaterhouseCoopers also found that half of health care costs are due to wasteful spending and said that defensive medicine is the biggest producer of waste.
In Great Britain, where the government's in charge of health care, as many as 1 million people are waiting to get into hospitals at any given time, says the National Center for Policy Analysis.
In Canada, another country where the government metes out care, roughly 900,000 are waiting for hospital beds, the Fraser Institute reports. The New Zealand government says that 90,000 are on hospital waiting lists there.

The facts say:
• Survival rates in the U.S. for common cancers are higher, and in some cases much higher, than in Europe and Canada.
• Americans have better access to treatment for chronic diseases than patients in other developed nations and spend less time waiting for care than Canadians and Britons.
• Americans have more access to new medical technologies than Canadians and United Kingdom residents, and are responsible for most health care innovations.


The U.S. will be short 124,400 front-line physicians by 2025, according to the Association of Medical Colleges.
That does not include the 15,585 new primary-care providers Obamacare is estimated to require.
Put together fewer doctors, more patients and government insurance, and that spells less access to care,

Infant mortality rates are often cited as a reason socialized medicine and single-payer systems are better than what we have here. But according to Dr. Linda Halderman, a policy adviser in the California State Senate, these comparisons are bogus.
Official World Health Organization statistics show the U.S. lagging behind France in infant mortality rates — 6.7 per 1,000 live births vs. 3.8 for France. Halderman notes that in the U.S., any infant born that shows any sign of life for any length of time is considered a live birth. In France — in fact, in most of the European Union — any baby born before 26 weeks' gestation is not considered alive and therefore doesn't "count" in reported infant mortality rates.
France reimburses its doctors at a far lower rate than U.S. physicians would accept.
As David Gratzer, a physician and senior fellow at the Manhattan Institute, wrote in the summer 2007 issue of City Journal: "In France, the supply of doctors is so limited that during an August 2003 heat wave — when many doctors were on vacation and hospitals were stretched beyond capacity — 15,000 elderly citizens died."

So if our health care is so good, why don't we live as long as everyone else?
Three reasons. One, our homicide rate is two to three times higher than other countries. Two, because we drive so much, we have a higher fatality rate on our roads — 14.24 fatalities per 100,000 people vs. 6.19 in Germany, 7.4 in France and 9.25 in Canada. Three, Americans eat far more than those in other nations, contributing to higher levels of heart disease, diabetes and some cancers.
These are diseases of wealth, not the fault of the health care system. A study by Robert Ohsfeldt of Texas A&M and John Schneider of the University of Iowa found that if you subtract our higher death rates from accidents and homicide, Americans actually live longer than people in other countries.
In countries with nationalized care, medical outcomes are often catastrophically worse. Take breast cancer. According to the Heritage Foundation, breast cancer mortality in Germany is 52% higher than in the U.S.; the U.K.'s rate is 88% higher. For prostate cancer, mortality is 604% higher in the U.K. and 457% higher in Norway. Colorectal cancer? Forty percent higher in the U.K.
But what about the health care paradise to our north? Americans have almost uniformly better outcomes and lower mortality rates than Canada, where breast cancer mortality is 9% higher, prostate cancer 184% higher and colon cancer 10% higher.
Then there are the waiting lists. With a population just under that of California, 830,000 Canadians are waiting to be admitted to a hospital or to get treatment. In England, the list is 1.8 million deep.
Universal health care, wrote Sally Pipes, president of the Pacific Research Institute in her excellent book, "Top Ten Myths Of American Health Care," will inevitably result in "higher taxes, forced premium payments, one-size-fits-all policies, long waiting lists, rationed care and limited access to cutting-edge medicine."

• "Americans have better survival rates than Europeans for common cancers." Breast cancer mortality: 52% higher in Germany and 88% higher in the United Kingdom than in the U.S. Prostate cancer mortality: 604% higher in the U.K., 457% higher in Norway. Colo-rectal cancer mortality: 40% higher among Britons.
• "Americans have lower cancer mortality rates than Canadians." Rates for breast cancer (9%), prostate cancer (184%) and colon cancer among men (10%) are higher than in the U.S.
• "Americans have better access to treatment of chronic diseases than patients in other developed countries." Roughly 56% of Americans who could benefit are taking statin drugs. Only 36% of the Dutch, 29% of the Swiss, 26% of Germans, 23% of Britons and 17% of Italians who could benefit receive them.
• "Americans have better access to preventive cancer screenings than Canadians." Nine of 10 middle-aged American women have had a mammogram; 72% of Canadian women have. Almost every American woman (96%) has had a pap smear; fewer than 90% of Canadian women have. Roughly 54% of American men have had a prostate cancer test; fewer than one in six Canadian men have. Almost a third of Americans (30%) have had a colonoscopy; only 5% of Canadians have had the procedure.
• "Lower-income Americans are in better health than comparable Canadians." Nearly 12% of U.S. seniors with below-median incomes self-report being in "excellent" health, while 5.8% of Canadian seniors say the same thing.
• "Americans spend less time waiting for care than patients in Canada and the United Kingdom." Canadians and Britons wait about twice as long, sometimes more than a year, to see a specialist, have elective surgery or get radiation treatment.
• "People in countries with more government control of health care are highly dissatisfied and believe reform is needed." More than seven in 10 Germans, Canadians, Australians, New Zealanders and Britons say their health systems need either "fundamental change" or "complete rebuilding."
• "Americans are more satisfied with the care they receive than Canadians." More than half (51.3%) of Americans are very satisfied with their health care services, while 41.5% of Canadians hold the same view of their system.
• "Americans have much better access to important new technologies like medical imaging than patients in Canada or the U.K." There are 34 CT scanners per million Americans. There are 12 per million in Canada and eight per million in Britain. The U.S. has nearly 27 MRI machines per million. Britain and Canada have 6 per million.
• "Americans are responsible for the vast majority of all health care innovations." The top five U.S. hospitals conduct more clinical trials than all the hospitals in any other single developed nation; the most important recent medical innovations were developed here.
Can the nationalized, universal systems in Britain, Canada or anywhere else improve on this? No, but we can ruin our health care by following the policies of countries where medical treatment is far below the American standard.

Title: Re: Netherlands and Belgium are Euthanizing Mentally Ill Patients and
Post by: gymvol on August 13, 2019, 10:39:20 AM
In my experience, our current health insurance companies "manage" treatment, not to this extent obviously, but they do limit who we can see, how often, etc.

We do pay a lot more for health care in the US than in other countries who have comparable statistical outcomes.


You need to get a PPO plan instead of a HMO you have more options and don't need referrals.  I have a BCBS PPO plan and have had a couple of surgeries without paying anything and one was heart surgery.

We now pay more for health care because of OBAMACARE along with all the free health care provided to those who can't pay, don't pay, won't pay and illegal aliens in the country.

Hospitals and doctors aren't in the business to break even. 
Title: Re: Netherlands and Belgium are Euthanizing Mentally Ill Patients and
Post by: Cincydawg on August 13, 2019, 11:20:04 AM
I don't have viable alternatives for my own health insurance.  Fortunately, I am rarely in need of medical care.  

It got very annoying when I had kids trying to get the folks to cover what was obviously their responsibility.  They'd deny deny deny and maybe eventually pay.  I gave up a couple of times, I was too busy to persist, which of course is how they "manage care".

I had a physical a few months back, never saw a bill for it other than $21 for some lab work.  That is the first time I saw a doctor in years.

The French system appears to work pretty well overall.  My British friends all tell me they get "slow played", especially true for their parents.  I have a step grand child in France and the level of care for him has been pretty good from what his mom says, and he has had a lot of issues.  The wife has two cousins who are MDs.  She says the man is especially competent.

Title: Re: Netherlands and Belgium are Euthanizing Mentally Ill Patients and
Post by: gymvol on August 13, 2019, 02:24:22 PM


Another reason laws should be changed for buying health insurance so people can shop across state lines in order to get the cheapest rates and for a policy that best suits their needs.

Nothing like competition to bring down the costs of anything.

But we only need to look at the same people who claim to be helping to provide better or free health care that is keeping that from happening.

It's the 535 members in both houses of congress who the insurance lobbies are paying off to keep that from happening.
Title: Re: Netherlands and Belgium are Euthanizing Mentally Ill Patients and
Post by: Cincydawg on August 13, 2019, 04:34:41 PM
I am personally locked into one health care plan.  To go elsewhere would be prohibitive costwise, as my company pays for about 90% of the cost.

Title: Re: Netherlands and Belgium are Euthanizing Mentally Ill Patients and
Post by: mcwterps1 on August 13, 2019, 05:26:13 PM

Another reason laws should be changed for buying health insurance so people can shop across state lines in order to get the cheapest rates and for a policy that best suits their needs.

Nothing like competition to bring down the costs of anything.

But we only need to look at the same people who claim to be helping to provide better or free health care that is keeping that from happening.

It's the 535 members in both houses of congress who the insurance lobbies are paying off to keep that from happening.
That's literally what Obamacare was supposed to do, but because the evil Brown Muslim man fought for this law, 13 of those wonderful red States sued and prevented it from happening.
Title: Re: Netherlands and Belgium are Euthanizing Mentally Ill Patients and
Post by: Cincydawg on August 13, 2019, 05:27:21 PM
Obamacare most certainly did NOT do that at all.  I don't have any idea where you get your "information".

https://economics21.org/challenge-selling-health-insurance-across-states (https://economics21.org/challenge-selling-health-insurance-across-states)
Title: Re: Netherlands and Belgium are Euthanizing Mentally Ill Patients and
Post by: roadvol on August 13, 2019, 06:31:19 PM
Twerp gets carried away sometimes and forgets he's chatting with people who can actually read.
Selling insurance across state lines was never a serious consideration.
The insurance lobby strong armed that before it got off the drawing boards.
Title: Re: Netherlands and Belgium are Euthanizing Mentally Ill Patients and
Post by: DunkingDan on August 13, 2019, 07:58:31 PM
Twerp gets carried away sometimes and forgets he chatting with people who can actually read.
Selling insurance across state lines was never a serious consideration.
The insurance lobby strong armed that before it got off the drawing boards.
I wish we could go back to a lot of the polices we had in the  60's and 70's and do away with all the added over head and most of the regs that have been mandated 
Title: Re: Netherlands and Belgium are Euthanizing Mentally Ill Patients and
Post by: mcwterps1 on August 13, 2019, 10:00:23 PM
Obamacare most certainly did NOT do that at all.  I don't have any idea where you get your "information".

https://economics21.org/challenge-selling-health-insurance-across-states (https://economics21.org/challenge-selling-health-insurance-across-states)
"That's literally what Obamacare was supposed to do"

I thought you were a stickler for reading comprehension?

What does that article have to do with the exchanges and how they were supposed to work across state lines before red states blocked it? 

I work for a living and don't have time to read drivel. 
Title: Re: Netherlands and Belgium are Euthanizing Mentally Ill Patients and
Post by: ATexasVol on August 13, 2019, 10:20:04 PM
"That's literally what Obamacare was supposed to do"

I thought you were a stickler for reading comprehension?

What does that article have to do with the exchanges and how they were supposed to work across state lines before red states blocked it?

I work for a living and don't have time to read drivel.

Unsurprisingly, you have no idea what you're talking about.  

Had you been paying attention, you would know that Obamacare was nothing more than an insurance bill.   It did nothing to reduce healthcare costs.   It never addressed competition across state lines or tort reform.  Insurance companies were the primary beneficiary.  Pajama boy didn't even sign up for it.  

Title: Re: Netherlands and Belgium are Euthanizing Mentally Ill Patients and
Post by: Cincydawg on August 13, 2019, 10:27:47 PM
Clueless.  The states objected to Medicaid expansion.

Try using Google for facts and learn something.
Title: Re: Netherlands and Belgium are Euthanizing Mentally Ill Patients and
Post by: mcwterps1 on August 14, 2019, 11:09:28 AM
Clueless.  The states objected to Medicaid expansion.

Try using Google for facts and learn something.
It's cool to see you transition into the very thing you blame others for.

That was the sell. To try and get insurance from other exchanges where it was cheaper, to drive down cost, but 13 red states refused to participate and sued the federal government.

But go ahead. You're starting to fit in more and more around here.
Title: Re: Netherlands and Belgium are Euthanizing Mentally Ill Patients and
Post by: katmai on August 14, 2019, 12:38:51 PM
Don't laugh...if we ever get Single Payer healthcare here  you can expect more of the same.
Free government paid healthcare is unaffordable.
To help eliminate some of the burden there will be no treatment for seniors over a certain age or anyone with expensive cancer and other terminal illnesses......not cost effective for the pencil pushers in DC.
If that is the case, why don't we see that now with the current Medicare system?   That is completely run by the "pencil pushers in DC", and I personally think a lot of questionable end-of-life care is done because Medicare will reimburses it.  
Title: Re: Netherlands and Belgium are Euthanizing Mentally Ill Patients and
Post by: Cincydawg on August 14, 2019, 12:48:38 PM
About half of all health care costs in the US are already paid for by government.

We're talking about the other half in effect.
Title: Here's Why
Post by: roadvol on August 14, 2019, 01:31:31 PM
Most people with Medicare have supplemental health coverage that absorbs a big part of the cost.
Apparently you aren't on Medicare yet. It's become almost impossible to find doctors that will treat Medicare patients so they simply won't see elderly . After moving to Alabama we went over a year before finding one and that was only because my daughter's family doctor was kind enough to grandfather us in. Until then we were driving back to Tennessee to our family doctor ( 180 mile round trip)
With single payer, doctors have no choice.
Two things will happen.......there will be a severe shortage of doctors as they will not be able to survive on medicare ( or single payer) payments.
Those doctors who still are around will not be able to give elderly or terminal patients the care they require as they will not have time nor will they be paid adequately to stay in business.
Those people will get pain killers and best wishes.
Title: Anecdotal Evidence Why Single Payer Will Not Work
Post by: roadvol on August 14, 2019, 01:46:06 PM
My daughter has a psychiatric clinic and was forced to stop taking medicare patients about 2 years ago.
Up until then she would call Medicare to inquire why she wasn't receiving payment for claims.
She was told by a Medicare claims processor that they NEVER make payments on the first claim filed.
They ignore initial claims until they get a second claim and they won;t accept those for a period of months.
Finally when the second claim is made it takes between 12-18 months to receive payment and then it's only a fraction of the amount of claim ( thus the need for supplemental insurance)
Result....she no longer accepts Medicare payments . So if you are wondering why you can't find a doctor when you go on Medicare....now you know.
Title: Re: Here's Why
Post by: katmai on August 14, 2019, 10:53:33 PM
Most people with Medicare have supplemental health coverage that absorbs a big part of the cost.
Apparently you aren't on Medicare yet.
I ain't that old yet.  :)

It's become almost impossible to find doctors that will treat Medicare patients so they simply won't see elderly . After moving to Alabama we went over a year before finding one and that was only because my daughter's family doctor was kind enough to grandfather us in. Until then we were driving back to Tennessee to our family doctor ( 180 mile round trip)
With single payer, doctors have no choice.
How long have you been on Medicare?   Has the access issues always been the case for you, or has it gotten worse in the past few years?  Most of my dealings with Medicare has been anectdotal with family members.  There have been no access issues that I am aware of, but everyone's situation may be different.  I have certainly questioned the quality of care sometimes, but that is more to do with living in a rural area, away from any metropolitan area.  That is not a Medicare issue.  And for your example of non-treatment for older patients, I had a family member that was given radiation and chemotherapy for cancer in their 80's.  I personally disagreed with taking such aggressive treatments on someone with that advanced age, but it is difficult for anyone to admit that sometimes doing nothing is the best option.  The treatments probably sped up their death, and it certainly didn't enhance the quality of life in the end.  

Two things will happen.......there will be a severe shortage of doctors as they will not be able to survive on medicare ( or single payer) payments.
Those doctors who still are around will not be able to give elderly or terminal patients the care they require as they will not have time nor will they be paid adequately to stay in business.
Those people will get pain killers and best wishes.
I agree that a "Medicare for All' type of solution will lead to reduced compensation for physicians, and less access to care due to higher participation rates.  The average doctor in the US makes $300,000/year, and if their pay was cut 20% to $240,000/year, they would be livid, but they could survive, and if they wanted to quit, what else are they going to do that pays them  that much?  The long-term effect would be to reduce the numbers of the best and brightest going in to the medical field, because there would be better financial opportunities in other fields.  And obviously that will eventually impact the quality of care as well.  
Title: Re: Netherlands and Belgium are Euthanizing Mentally Ill Patients and
Post by: roadvol on August 14, 2019, 11:25:25 PM
My family physician in Franklin Tn before I moved quit practicing at 52 because he was losing money due to slow Medicare payments and high malpractice insurance.
He was an excellent doctor with a huge practice.
The only reason I was able to keep a doctor was because a young doctor took over his practice under the agreement that he grandfather my previous doctor's patients.
I wouldn't exactly call Franklin,Tn or Madison Al (suburb of Huntsville) "rural areas"
If you haven't had a problem finding a doctor while on medicare then you're not on medicare.
If I wasn't on medicare but approaching medicare age then the first thing you should do is ask your primary care physician if he grandfathers medicare patients or immediately start shopping for one as the problem is only going to get worse.

Title: Re: Netherlands and Belgium are Euthanizing Mentally Ill Patients and
Post by: katmai on August 15, 2019, 12:04:22 AM
My family physician in Franklin Tn before I moved quit practicing at 52 because he was losing money due to slow Medicare payments and high malpractice insurance.
He was an excellent doctor with a huge practice.
So what is he doing now?  

The only reason I was able to keep a doctor was because a young doctor took over his practice under the agreement that he grandfather my previous doctor's patients.
I wouldn't exactly call Franklin,Tn or Madison Al (suburb of Huntsville) "rural areas"
If you haven't had a problem finding a doctor while on medicare then you're not on medicare.
If I wasn't on medicare but approaching medicare age then the first thing you should do is ask your primary care physician if he grandfathers medicare patients or immediately start shopping for one as the problem is only going to get worse.
I would think that if Medicare didn't exist, and you were on private insurance, the premiums would be prohibitively expensive.  I am not on Medicare, and haven't heard a lot of complaints from the people I know on it.   It may be because they all have supplemental insurance.  So if you are unsatisfied with Medicare, and our private insurance market is extremely expensive, what is your suggestion to address it?  
Title: Re: Netherlands and Belgium are Euthanizing Mentally Ill Patients and
Post by: Cincydawg on August 15, 2019, 06:25:55 AM
Medicare is popular among those who have it.  I presume it more or less works, though it is expensive.

Medicaid is the option that doctors don't like as they don't  get paid for services rendered in that plan often as not, same with hospitals, who upcharge the rest of us to compensate.
Title: Re: Netherlands and Belgium are Euthanizing Mentally Ill Patients and
Post by: roadvol on August 15, 2019, 09:33:53 AM
What is he doing?
His wife owned an ATM business and he said she made ( profited) about 4 times more than him.So he retired.....and is a well educated house husband. And plays a lot of golf.

Anyone who can afford it and is on medicare has supplemental insurance. Unless you want to be at the mercy of the emergency room. I really don't know of any private physicians who will take medicare patients that don't have supplemental insurance. Medicare claims do not cover cost of service so a medical practice would soon go out of business if it depended on Medicare payments.
The reason there will be a critical shortage of doctors if single payer is ever passed.
You would see young doctors coming out of med school owing hundreds of thousands of dollars not counting the cost of sitting up a private practice. You would soon see a glut of lawyers and other assorted professional graduates as it would not be profitable to become a medical doctor.
Title: Re: Netherlands and Belgium are Euthanizing Mentally Ill Patients and
Post by: Cincydawg on August 15, 2019, 10:36:06 AM
https://www.medicare.gov/physiciancompare/#results&loc=ATLANTA%2C%20GA&lat=33.7489954&lng=-84.3879824&flow=interim&type=specialty&paging=1&keyword=General&previouspage=IS&dist=15&name=General%20practice&id=01&loctype=c (https://www.medicare.gov/physiciancompare/#results&loc=ATLANTA%2C)

Around here a lot of practices accept Medicare.  Fewer like Medicaid of course, different program entirely.

Supplemental insurance for Medicare covers things like drug costs and dentist visits, it doesn't give you are larger network necessarily.

https://www.kff.org/medicare/issue-brief/primary-care-physicians-accepting-medicare-a-snapshot/ (https://www.kff.org/medicare/issue-brief/primary-care-physicians-accepting-medicare-a-snapshot/)

(https://i.imgur.com/iWHTzod.png)
Title: Re: Netherlands and Belgium are Euthanizing Mentally Ill Patients and
Post by: roadvol on August 15, 2019, 01:37:10 PM
Supplemental Medicare Medical Insurance has absolutely nothing to do with pharmacy or dental cost.
You pay for an entirely different Medicare Supplemental Pharmacy Insurance for pharmacy coverage .
Medicare does not pay any dental cost unless it's associated with an accident that requires surgery and never heard of a supplemental Medicare dental insurance.
Where did you get that information?
Title: BTW...
Post by: roadvol on August 15, 2019, 01:50:30 PM
...in your rush to prove me wrong you might not have noticed that your link is almost 5 years old.
The number of primary physicians who take Medicare patients with supplemental coverage is shrinking every year since the passage of Obamacare.
The number of primary physicians who take medicare patients without supplemental is almost zero.
If you don't believe me just pick up the phone and start calling primary care physicians and see how many calls you make before finding one.
If you do happen to find one it will more than likely be a clinic that uses nurse practitioners and you'll never see a real doctor unless he's writing a referral to another doctor....orto sign  a death certificate.
Title: Re: Netherlands and Belgium are Euthanizing Mentally Ill Patients and
Post by: Cincydawg on August 15, 2019, 02:13:02 PM
I googled practices near me and there are a bunch who accept Medicare.  I had no problem finding them.

https://doctors.piedmont.org/search?filter=direct_book_capable%3AT&filter=insurance_plans%3AMedicare&primary_care=Primary%20Care%20Providers&sort=networks%2Crelevance%2Cavailability_density_best (https://doctors.piedmont.org/search?filter=direct_book_capable%3AT&filter=insurance_plans%3AMedicare&primary_care=Primary Care)

I'm being bombarded daily with "information" for supplemental Medicare right now, parts are for drug coverage and dental, then there is foreign travel, skilled nursing care, blood, hospice care, the list goes on and one.  It's not about some kind of independent health insurance, it's supplemental coverages.

https://www.medicare.gov/supplements-other-insurance/whats-medicare-supplement-insurance-medigap (https://www.medicare.gov/supplements-other-insurance/whats-medicare-supplement-insurance-medigap)

The wife has been seeing "real doctors" every two weeks here of late for a lingering malady she incurred.  She had zero issue finding one.  I took her to Urgent Care a month or so back and she's seeing doctors in the same hospital now, plus PT twice a week.

Title: Re: Netherlands and Belgium are Euthanizing Mentally Ill Patients and
Post by: DunkingDan on August 15, 2019, 02:54:24 PM
I googled practices near me and there are a bunch who accept Medicare.  I had no problem finding them.

https://doctors.piedmont.org/search?filter=direct_book_capable%3AT&filter=insurance_plans%3AMedicare&primary_care=Primary%20Care%20Providers&sort=networks%2Crelevance%2Cavailability_density_best (https://doctors.piedmont.org/search?filter=direct_book_capable%3AT&filter=insurance_plans%3AMedicare&primary_care=Primary Care)

I'm being bombarded daily with "information" for supplemental Medicare right now, parts are for drug coverage and dental, then there is foreign travel, skilled nursing care, blood, hospice care, the list goes on and one.  It's not about some kind of independent health insurance, it's supplemental coverages.

https://www.medicare.gov/supplements-other-insurance/whats-medicare-supplement-insurance-medigap (https://www.medicare.gov/supplements-other-insurance/whats-medicare-supplement-insurance-medigap)

The wife has been seeing "real doctors" every two weeks here of late for a lingering malady she incurred.  She had zero issue finding one.  I took her to Urgent Care a month or so back and she's seeing doctors in the same hospital now, plus PT twice a week.
As Road said more and more are not accepting new Medicare patients. 

Title: Re: Netherlands and Belgium are Euthanizing Mentally Ill Patients and
Post by: roadvol on August 15, 2019, 03:40:48 PM
Medicare Part D ( drug) plans are entirely different from Part A and B which is hospital and medical coverage...and you can buy supplemental pans for Part D.
They do not interchange.
There is no Medicare dental coverage that I know of but I'm sure private dental plans for medicare age buyers are available and are advertised that way for promotional purposes.
I'm sure there are tons of doctors who treat medicare patients ( with supplemental) but are normally specialist.
As I said......go to the yellow pages and start calling primary physicians and see how many calls you need to make before finding one.
Title: Re: Netherlands and Belgium are Euthanizing Mentally Ill Patients and
Post by: roadvol on August 15, 2019, 03:44:31 PM
also....as you get closer to Medicare age you get bombarded with Medicare supplemental advertisement.
Supplemental insurance for Medicare is a huge growth industry with Medicare covering less and an aging population.For about a year my mailbox was stuffed full of advertisements for supplemental healthcare insurance.
Title: Re: Netherlands and Belgium are Euthanizing Mentally Ill Patients and
Post by: Cincydawg on August 15, 2019, 04:22:31 PM
I had no trouble finding plenty.
Title: Re: Netherlands and Belgium are Euthanizing Mentally Ill Patients and
Post by: Cincydawg on August 15, 2019, 04:35:16 PM
As mentioned, unless you enroll in a Medicare Advantage plan that includes routine dental coverage, you’ll typically have to pay the full cost for routine dental care. However, there are other ways to cover dental costs outside of what’s covered by Medicare, including dental insurance and dental discount cards. Please note that these types of dental coverage are not part of Medicare.

This is what I'm talking about.  I'm seeing plans that cover everything under the sun.  I never said they were part of basic Medicare.  And I see a ton of practitioners around me that accept new Medicare patients, as I have linked.

For me, my retiree health insurance plan apparently fills in the gaps anyway, the cost is going down for me on that payment.  
Title: Re: Netherlands and Belgium are Euthanizing Mentally Ill Patients and
Post by: roadvol on August 15, 2019, 05:16:50 PM
Good for you:91: