CFB51 College Football Fan Community
The Power Five => Big Ten => Topic started by: OrangeAfroMan on July 14, 2019, 08:52:46 PM
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I need help identifying teams that predominantly ran the option offense from season to season. Here's who I have so far:
Alabama from 71-82 (Bryant)
Oklahoma from 71-88 (Switzer)
Nebraska from 80-03 (Osborne & Solich)
Air Force from 82-present (DeBerry & whoever)
ND from 86-96 (Holtz)
Syracuse from 91-01 (Pasqualoni)
GT from 08-18 (Paul Johnson)
Auburn from 10-present (Chizik/Malzhan)
I don't need to know if New Mexico State ran it in 1974 or anything like that, but of the notable, top 25-type programs, am I missing any? Would you consider what RichRod did at WV an "option offense"? Or what Meyer did at Florida with Tebow, or at OSU (not with Haskins, obviously)?
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RR's at WVU and Michigan count if you grow the definition of option to include read-options. That would really expand the category, though. Ditto if you grow it to include RPOs.
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Given the rise of the spread option and RPO's, might have to be more specific on option offense
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I'm wanting to do this to incorporate an added risk/reward in my board game of additional fumbles and long TD runs. Option teams are more likely to fumble and if the defense doesn't play assignment football, option teams bust those long gainers on the ground.
Those 70s teams with QBs stringing the play out towards the sideline, then pitching it had an inordinate amount of fumbles, as one may expect. These new read-option, middle-of-the-field offenses don't fumble as often, but do you think they fumble more than a more traditional, pro-set offenses?
I'm leaning towards no.
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You'll want to add Texas to this list. Can't verify when D Royal started running it but he's the reason Switzer followed suit.
Memory tells me he started running it in 1968 when he brought in Emory Bellard as OC. Bellard introduced it after seeing A&M introduce option offense the year prior. In this context I'm talking about specifically the wishbone, which of course features the option.
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It's just anecdotal feels, but I do think the modern QB/RB mesh increases fumble risk.
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You'll want to add Texas to this list. Can't verify when D Royal started running it but he's the reason Switzer followed suit.
It's the reason they won it all in '69, right?
30 seconds of research tells me the Horns ran the triple option from '68-'76. Akers scrapped it. Looks like he ran the I or split-back and the toss sweep a lot.
Watching '77 Texas v OU, the Longhorn OL are all in 4-point stances. That's interesting.
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It's just anecdotal feels, but I do think the modern QB/RB mesh increases fumble risk.
I'm afraid anecdotal feels is all the stats I'll be able to find on the subject, lol.
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New Mexico State ran it in 1974.
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Oklahoma went away from the wishbone for awhile in the early '80s in order to feature Marcus Dupree at tailback. Whether that was the "I-option," I do not know.
Are we just talking about the triple-option? If it's just option football, the old Split-T offense, created by Don Faurot at Missouri in 1941, is usually considered the first option offense. Bud Wilkinson used it at OU for just about his whole tenure.
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New Mexico State ran it in 1974.
How dare you
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Oklahoma went away from the wishbone for awhile in the early '80s in order to feature Marcus Dupree at tailback. Whether that was the "I-option," I do not know.
Are we just talking about the triple-option? If it's just option football, the old Split-T offense, created by Don Faurot at Missouri in 1941, is usually considered the first option offense. Bud Wilkinson used it at OU for just about his whole tenure.
Just looking at 1971 to now. Any type of option-heavy offense, in which fumbles were more of an issue.
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One revealing way to tell is passes attempted per game. Some option teams in the 70s threw it was few as 5-6 times per game.
Looking at RichRod WV days, with Pat White. They attempted 16, 18, then 20 passes per game, from 05-07 (their peak).
Florida with Tebow threw it 28, 24, then 26 times per game. Those numbers are just too high to describe the offense as an "option offense".
But I don't know where to draw the line on pass attempts.
If you remember 2013 Auburn, which lost to FSU in the championship game - they were really option-dive heavy. Their QB wasn't much of a passer, and they still attempted 20 passes per game.
'85 Oklahoma attempted 10 per game. Obviously an option team.
OR I could just look at where the QB ranks for carries on the team. If he's 4th, he might have run some option or just scrambled a lot because he wasn't capable of going through progressions. If he's first or 2nd, probably ran the option a lot.
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Grr....Tebow kind of breaks this statistical sleuthing in his Heisman year. He threw it 28 times per game, but had the most carries for Florida - twice as many as the next guy.
Looking up highlights, he scrambled a lot, effectively. A lot of QB draws and dives as well. I shouldn't worry so much about outliers.
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UGA ran the veer mid-70s, I don't know if you call that "the option". Andy Johnson at QB had a lot of yardage in 1975.
We all know of a lot of different kinds of option offenses. I think many plays today are "option plays" of a type, read option and so forth, but that isn't what you mean.
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UGA ran the veer mid-70s, I don't know if you call that "the option". Andy Johnson at QB had a lot of yardage in 1975.
We all know of a lot of different kinds of option offenses. I think many plays today are "option plays" of a type, read option and so forth, but that isn't what you mean.
Veer is a pretty pure form of option. UW ran it the unsuccessful years before Barry.
I’d half bet most teams ran a good bit of option at some point in the sports’ history. The thing is, bad old option teams are just deeply forgettable. Clemson ran some in the Danny Ford days.
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Veer is a pretty pure form of option. UW ran it the unsuccessful years before Barry.
I’d half bet most teams ran a good bit of option at some point in the sports’ history. The thing is, bad old option teams are just deeply forgettable. Clemson ran some in the Danny Ford days.
Grrr...
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I think if you can't recruit well, the Paul Johnson offense is the way to go.
GaTech is going to look a LOT different now, and I suspect a LOT worse.
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The veer was just a sprint option, right? No FB business or pause before the QB runs a sweep, basically?
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The veer was just a sprint option, right? No FB business or pause before the QB runs a sweep, basically?
Nope. Veer is pure triple.
It's interesting because the Veer is in theory a play and an overall offense. Here's the original playbook (https://www.footballxos.com/download/1975-houston-veer-option-offense-pdf/?wpdmdl=3979&ind=0).
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Nope. Veer is pure triple.
It's interesting because the Veer is in theory a play and an overall offense. Here's the original playbook (https://www.footballxos.com/download/1975-houston-veer-option-offense-pdf/?wpdmdl=3979&ind=0).
Good thing we have this link, as i think UW did a good job of burning all evidence of the Don Morton era.
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I always associated the veer with some of Jim Wacker's teams, and sure enough it turns out he and Don Morton co-authored a book about it:
https://www.amazon.com/Explosive-Veer-Offense-Winning-Football/dp/0132980185 (https://www.amazon.com/Explosive-Veer-Offense-Winning-Football/dp/0132980185)
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We might be veering off topic here a bit.
(https://i.imgur.com/BPQVRb2.png)
The Veer option is generally regarded as a "triple option (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Triple_option)". It is designed as a three-back attack with one player taking a dive course, one taking a pitch course and another being a lead blocker on the perimeter of the offensive formation. The QB makes reads on defensive players and then distributes the ball according to the defensive reaction to the offense.
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Okay, so FB through the B-gap and so on. Was that before or after the wing-T?
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I believe all the service academies, Navy, Army, and Air Force, run the option, and have for years.
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Just looking at 1971 to now. Any type of option-heavy offense, in which fumbles were more of an issue.
In the wishbone, the critical point was the "mesh" of the QB and the FB. That was the first option point, and the QB put the ball into the FB's gut before he made the decision to leave it there or pull it back out. Compared to the mesh, the pitch to the trailing HB was easy.
I work with a guy who was backup QB at OU during the Troy Aikman/Jamelle Holieway era. He said that the QBs and FBs worked on the mesh more than any other single thing.
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I don't know if they ran the option, but when OSU featured Archie Griffin at Tailback, Corny Green at QB, and Pete Johnson at FB, all three put up pretty good rushing numbers while very little passing was going on.
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I was a big buckeye fan back in those days
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I don't know if they ran the option, but when OSU featured Archie Griffin at Tailback, Corny Green at QB, and Pete Johnson at FB, all three put up pretty good rushing numbers while very little passing was going on.
Pulled up some film, spotted a good bit of option.
Then found Michigan running some spots of option.
At points, everyone ran the damn options
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Right, so I guess I'd want to identify the teams that ran it maybe 80% of the time or more. It wouldn't have to be extreme cases like Army or GT, where they don't throw a pass for an entire game, but more like the mid-90s Nebraska teams. Sure, sometimes they ran a toss sweep. A rare dropback pass. But they ran option, plenty of QB keepers, and many passes came off the initial option look.
If it's just the list I posted initially, I'm fine with that. I just don't want to miss any egregious teams. All of this came from Yeoman at Houston, so did his strong late-70s teams run majority option?
I know about the service academies, but the only time they've mattered in the past 45 years was Air Force in '83 or '84, I forget.
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We ran the option when I was in high school. We ran the Houston Veer. University of Houston ran it. We ran this offense in 1974. The offense had two running backs in T-Formation and we usually had a slotback. (I played defense).
And the idea of the veer, was that if you took the hand-off off-guard the running back was to veer to the outside where there theoretically should be running room. And since we were conference champions, and had some good linemen, there usually was running room outside, but the coaches kept hollering to one running back, "Veer Olson! Veer!"
One of our running backs was one of the top 2 running backs in the state, Tom Rusk, later to become an All Big Ten Conference linebacker who led the Big Ten in tackles as a sophomore. Only in part a tribute to Iowa's lackluster offense which left the defense on the field a lot. Tom was a helluva player, and rang my bell more than once but I never told him so until 35 years later, or he'd have had my lunch in practice. The other RB, Olson, who I miss to this day died in a lightening strike a few years after graduating from college.
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Let's look at 1974:
1. Oklahoma...attempted 7.5 passes per game. HC Switzer, who we know ran the option.
2. USC 14.1 HC McKay, who we know loved the toss sweep, not an option offense.
3. Michigan 11.5
4. Ohio St 9.3
5. Alabama 11.4
6. Notre Dame 21.4
7. Penn St 17.5
8. Auburn 9.5
9. Nebraska 18.6
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So with 20 being crazy-high, pass-happy and below 10 being possibly option, we've got OSU and Auburn at possibly option.
Same list of teams, with where the QB ranks in number of carries:
1. Oklahoma - 2nd
2. USC - 3rd
3. Michigan - 4th
4. Ohio St - 2nd
5. Alabama - 2nd
6. Notre Dame - 3rd
7. Penn St - 7th
8. Auburn - 2nd
9. Nebraska - 6th
So this list sort of aligns with the other - OU, OSU, and Auburn had few pass attempts AND QBs with a lot of carries. Safe to call these option teams.
Luckily, the UM-OSU game was a big game in 1974. You can watch it on youtube. Both teams have a lot of option with a little I-formation handoffs and passes sprinkled in. I'd call Michigan an option team for that year.
Also, the 1974 Iron Bowl was a big game. Auburn running the veer and Bama in the wishbone. So Bama's relatively low pass attempts and their QB having the 2nd-most carries confirms statistically with the video evidence.
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Now yes, many of these helmet teams from the past have archived footage available....but the #10 team from 1974 is missing here. It was Miami of Ohio. Not going to find videos of them or the other non-helmets to confirm or deny types of offense.
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Another method that works for 70s football is seeing if the QB has more carries than pass attempts. While UM's QB only had the 4th-most carries on the team, he still ran more than he passed.
These methods work well for 1974, but not for the mid-90s (to now). Even option stalwart Nebraska was passing the ball 20 times per game in the mid-90s, despite being effective on the ground, running that offense.
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It's interesting, to me, how popular the veer was circa 1975 and then it drifted away. Johnson ran a modification of it of course, as did a few others of minor note.
Most teams in the 90s seemed to run something akin to a "pro style" and then of course the "read option" got hot. Spurrier had his variations based on a lot of passing.
Everyone is looking for an angle. Look how often the Wild Cat gets run these days (not consistently of course but as a change of pace, which defenses should be able to spot quickly). I think it would be fun to have a good running back who also can throw 40 yards downfield.
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I think it would be fun to have a good running back who also can throw 40 yards downfield.
It worked pretty well
(https://www.cfb51.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.onlygators.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2018%2F07%2Ftim-tebow-florida-old-espn-650x300.jpg&hash=4bbb8e0940e9b6c34e4a3fb313b1773d)
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Yeah, I suppose it's rare as RBs in HS don't work on passing, but some might have the innate ability. Run the Wildcat and have them pass.
We've all seen it tried, it works on occasion.
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Marlon Lucky TD Pass 10/21 - YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CWxrXKnxp_k)
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Andy Johnson always had more rushing attempts than passing, and more yardage, or almost more, all three years 1971-1973.
https://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/players/andy-johnson-1.html (https://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/players/andy-johnson-1.html)
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Ralph Friedgen ran option a lot. Joe Hamilton at GT and Scott McBrien at Maryland had a field day running option.
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NbbF-nw7l1o (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NbbF-nw7l1o)
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I always get a kick out of teams that try to run an option fake field goal. Nothing like trying to get to the edge with the holder and a kicker.
Thinking about that, reminds me of attending a Panthers/Cowboys game at the old stadium in Irving. It was a pathetic game (I attended a great OU/UT game the day before) and I recall one play when the Cowboys actually tried running an option with Quincy Carter and Emmitt and Smith wasn't keeping up with the pitch relationship and Carter pitched the ball with Smith trailing behind a good yard and it bounced to the sideline OOB, I think Rucker almost recovered it.
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Garo Yepremian attempted throw - NFL Videos (http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-videos/0ap2000000146968/Garo-Yepremian-attempted-throw)
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It's interesting, to me, how popular the veer was circa 1975 and then it drifted away. Johnson ran a modification of it of course, as did a few others of minor note.
Most teams in the 90s seemed to run something akin to a "pro style" and then of course the "read option" got hot. Spurrier had his variations based on a lot of passing.
Everyone is looking for an angle. Look how often the Wild Cat gets run these days (not consistently of course but as a change of pace, which defenses should be able to spot quickly). I think it would be fun to have a good running back who also can throw 40 yards downfield.
Houston ran the veer by 1969. OU copied and started the '70 season with the veer. It didn't go well, what with a loss in Norman to Oregon State, so during the bye week before the Texas game OC Barry Switzer convinced HFC Chuck Fairbanks to switch to the wishbone.
The Sooners got drilled by Texas, 41-9, but the new offense showed enough promise that they kept it.
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Ralph Friedgen ran option a lot. Joe Hamilton at GT and Scott McBrien at Maryland had a field day running option.
Thanks, I hadn't thought about him. I'll do some research.
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I always get a kick out of teams that try to run an option fake field goal. Nothing like trying to get to the edge with the holder and a kicker.
Thinking about that, reminds me of attending a Panthers/Cowboys game at the old stadium in Irving. It was a pathetic game (I attended a great OU/UT game the day before) and I recall one play when the Cowboys actually tried running an option with Quincy Carter and Emmitt and Smith wasn't keeping up with the pitch relationship and Carter pitched the ball with Smith trailing behind a good yard and it bounced to the sideline OOB, I think Rucker almost recovered it.
By then, Carter was probably faster than Emmitt.
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so was Rucker
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I see a lot of high schools run the option, which makes sense, but imagine you are a real pro style QB living in that district. I guess if you're that good you go somewhere else. A HS team that can pass effectively is probably so strange for most defenses they can light them up.
What are HS games like in your area?
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My old HS is now three HSs.
One runs the ball on every play. One throws the ball on every play. One has a balanced attack.
The players go to whichever one best matches their skill set.
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I see a lot of high schools run the option, which makes sense, but imagine you are a real pro style QB living in that district. I guess if you're that good you go somewhere else. A HS team that can pass effectively is probably so strange for most defenses they can light them up.
What are HS games like in your area?
In southern WV you will still see a lot of single wing and wing T type stuff, especially among the smaller schools. A few years I was doing a game on radio and the opponent ran a single wing so I did a little research on it so I could try to fake like I knew what I was talking about.
I came across a funny story I shared on the air. When Sean Payton was serving his suspension for bounty gate he coached his son’s Pop Warner team. They rolled every team they played except this one team that ran the Single Wing and that team kicked their ass. Couldn’t stop them. So, they get to the playoffs, win a couple of games and are set to face the same team that beat them in the championship game.
So Payton contacts Jon Gruden and Bill Parcells to pick their brains about stopping this offense that is nearly 100 years old. So you have 3 Super Bowl winning head coaches coming up with a game plan to stop this offense. Payton thinks he has a plan in place and feels confident. They go play the championship game and get smoked again. Gave up 58 points. Payton said he came away with a new appreciation for the Single Wing offense.
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yup, any offense will work if it's executed properly with good personel
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I watched some film of my old HS playing football recently, looks like spread option with a fair bit of passing.
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I watched some film of my old HS playing football recently, looks like spread option with a fair bit of passing.
My old HS is running the spread too but it’s run dominated. A lot like Rod’s offenses with a heavy dose of QB runs, either called or keeping on reads.
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I see a lot of high schools run the option, which makes sense, but imagine you are a real pro style QB living in that district. I guess if you're that good you go somewhere else. A HS team that can pass effectively is probably so strange for most defenses they can light them up.
What are HS games like in your area?
I think you're underestimating the overall athleticism of high-end recruits, even QBs. Much like the stud pitcher who is also his HS's best hitter, a big-time QB recruit is going to be an athletic stud, compared to the average HS football player.
Even the stodgy QBs in college had some Johnny Manziel-type plays in HS, because t hey were just that much better athletically. There's old footage of Danny Wuerffel going 70+ yards on a QB keeper in the HS state final back in the day. Plenty more like that, i'm certain.
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the Cowboys actually tried running an option with Quincy Carter and Emmitt and Smith wasn't keeping up with the pitch relationship and Carter pitched the ball with Smith trailing behind a good yard and it bounced to the sideline OOB, I think Rucker almost recovered it.
Plus you can't get a Gator and Bulldog to do anything in harmony.
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Gatorama and I once dogsat Pearl and watched the WLOCP together.
I'm sure high level QB HS players are athletes, I just think they are apt to find a program that fits their style. If they are a 6'4" 210 pounder with a rocket arm, they probably should avoid playing for an option team.
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I always get a kick out of teams that try to run an option fake field goal. Nothing like trying to get to the edge with the holder and a kicker.
Thinking about that, reminds me of attending a Panthers/Cowboys game at the old stadium in Irving. It was a pathetic game (I attended a great OU/UT game the day before) and I recall one play when the Cowboys actually tried running an option with Quincy Carter and Emmitt and Smith wasn't keeping up with the pitch relationship and Carter pitched the ball with Smith trailing behind a good yard and it bounced to the sideline OOB, I think Rucker almost recovered it.
I remember it being a big deal when they announced they were going to start trying that. Ugh, wasn't pretty.
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Gatorama and I once dogsat Pearl and watched the WLOCP together.
I'm sure high level QB HS players are athletes, I just think they are apt to find a program that fits their style. If they are a 6'4" 210 pounder with a rocket arm, they probably should avoid playing for an option team.
I don't even think it matters anymore. With the QB camps and what-not, if you have a rocket arm, running an option offense just shows you have other abilities, too.
I don't believe anyone with next-level "arm talent" is struggling to get on the radar.
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Probably not, but they can features their abilities better in a pro style offense obviously and perhaps move up to the top schools.
Have we ever had a Jacob Eason kind of QB from an option HS team who had mediocre passing stats because his team didn't throw?
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That's the thing, programs don't care about stats, they go by ability shown. I'll bet you half of all the top WRs in college football played option QB in HS, at least part time, but programs recruit them heavily to be WRs. Or CBs.
And that's how you get elite talents at small schools, bypassing playing CB at Georgia and instead sticking at RB to play at Wake Forest. Marshall Faulk could have played CB at Miami, but went to San Diego State to stay at RB. All the tons of guys who transfer to smaller schools got that promise from the helmet schools to start out at their preferred position, but when it inevitably doesn't work out, they go to Louisiana Polytechnic Academy instead, just to remain a QB.
So yeah, the rocket-arm kid isn't going to have good passing stats, but they'll watch film of him and see he's running the single-wing, but he throws it on a line 65 yards. Good enough to scout further.
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Who is an example of a top tier pro style QB with mediocre HS stats because his team ran a run oriented offense?
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I don't believe anyone with next-level "arm talent" is struggling to get on the radar.
I hate the term "arm talent".
It infuriates me only slightly less than when a team is described as trying to "be multiple."
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I don't keep up with HS stats...and I don't think anyone really does. That's the point.
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I hate the term "arm talent".
It infuriates me only slightly less than when a team is described as trying to "be multiple."
me too
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Who is an example of a top tier pro style QB with mediocre HS stats because his team ran a run oriented offense?
Tennessee's QB was the #1 dual thread QB in 2016, but he's just running a normal offense at UT. I know that's not what you asked for, but no one knows HS stats and what offense each HS runs. But if a kid is considered dual-threat, his HS offense must incorporate enough QB runs to identify the player as such.
In 2015, both Joe Borrow (LSU now) and Sam Darnold (USC) were dual-threat QBs ranked ahead of Lamar Jackson (UL). Darnold wound up a 1st round draft pick due to his arm, not his legs.
I could pretend to know what offense San Clemente HS ran in 2013-14, but I'm not going to do that.
The discussion was how many HS teams run the option and you seem to think those HS programs should be(?) or are (always?) avoided by QB recruits with a big arm. I simply disagree. Yes, IMG Academy and similar schools recruit recruits, and I find it kind of gross, but they're in the extreme minority.
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My guess is a HS QB who is 6'4" and likely to be the next Jacob Eason finds a school where he can showcase his arm. In an option offense, he MIGHT find himself sitting behind another QB is is lightning quick but can't throw all that well.
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I looked at the top 6 rated QB recruits for 2020 and they all threw for over 3,000 yards in HS.
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I guess no one goes to their local HS anymore.
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Who is an example of a top tier pro style QB with mediocre HS stats because his team ran a run oriented offense?
My guess back is back in the 70s and 80s there were tons of them. Hell, Troy Aikman ran the wishbone at Oklahoma before he broke his leg and transferred to UCLA.
I can’t think of specific examples off the top of my head but I’ve watched tons of college games where there will be some QB slinging it around and the announcer will mention he played in some run heavy offense in HS and barely threw it.
That might not happen quite as often these days but I’d have to think there are still plenty of examples.
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I haven't been to but one game since I played for my high school 25yrs ago, but they won the state title last year and they run the wing T. I watched their game on line, it was beautiful.
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Favre was an option QB in HS.
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On another note you can also put me down as someone who rolls their eyes out of their skull when they hear the term “arm talent.”
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Big Ben was a WR up until his senior year of HS.
The coaches son was the starting QB.
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Our cross-town rival had the HC's son at QB. He was pushing 3 bills....
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Obviously, recruiting has changed in 40+ years. There is a lot of money involved in being a top HS QB and if it means you need to move to another school to showcase it, you move.
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I haven't been to but one game since I played for my high school 25yrs ago, but they won the state title last year and they run the wing T. I watched their game on line, it was beautiful.
I’m to the point I like high school sports almost (almost) as much as I like college sports. Now, I’m talking REAL HS sports. Not these prep teams where 75% of the kids get DI scholarships or powerhouse private schools. But schools where the kids on the team live in the town.
I’m at the age now where the local kids playing are children of people I went to school with or go to church with or my wife gave swimming lessons to. A couple years ago my next door neighbor was All State in football and basketball. My neighbor on the other side was All State in softball. It’s just fun to see these kids you’ve known for years competing and doing well. Small town America stuff I guess.
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The Catholic HSs in Cincy would routinely "poach" good players from public schools. They'd give them "scholarships", seriously.
Valdosta in south GA used to find good junior high players around and have someone offer the father a better job in the Valdosta district. They have some great teams.
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I hate the term "arm talent".
It infuriates me only slightly less than when a team is described as trying to "be multiple."
How about "athleticism"? Sensibly, it should mean "a belief system based on athletics."
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Since the whole point of this was assigning additional potential fumbles to option teams, I guess it should only apply to those who ran the option A LOT. GA Tech, with Joe Hamilton ran the option several times a game, as did Maryland under Freigden, but the percentage of overall plays that were option was limited. Probably something like 15-20% max.
Those types of teams shouldn't have the additional fumbles issue.
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Since the whole point of this was assigning additional potential fumbles to option teams, I guess it should only apply to those who ran the option A LOT. GA Tech, with Joe Hamilton ran the option several times a game, as did Maryland under Freigden, but the percentage of overall plays that were option was limited. Probably something like 15-20% max.
Those types of teams shouldn't have the additional fumbles issue.
Then I’m not sure Syracuse should be on your list. I watched those Syracuse teams and while the option was definitely part of their offense I’m not sure they were doing it more than 1 in 5 plays. I’d honestly wonder about Holtz’s ND teams too and what their rate was.
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I think that list of teams just focused on the HC and if he was an "option guy". Looking at Holtz at ND, they were an option team with Rice at QB, but opened up the offense a lot with Mirer under center.
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How about "athleticism"? Sensibly, it should mean "a belief system based on athletics."
When I hear that term applied to a QB I think they mean he can't throw very well.
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Tennessee's QB was the #1 dual thread QB in 2016, but he's just running a normal offense at UT. I know that's not what you asked for, but no one knows HS stats and what offense each HS runs. But if a kid is considered dual-threat, his HS offense must incorporate enough QB runs to identify the player as such.
In 2015, both Joe Borrow (LSU now) and Sam Darnold (USC) were dual-threat QBs ranked ahead of Lamar Jackson (UL). Darnold wound up a 1st round draft pick due to his arm, not his legs.
I could pretend to know what offense San Clemente HS ran in 2013-14, but I'm not going to do that.
The discussion was how many HS teams run the option and you seem to think those HS programs should be(?) or are (always?) avoided by QB recruits with a big arm. I simply disagree. Yes, IMG Academy and similar schools recruit recruits, and I find it kind of gross, but they're in the extreme minority.
Darnold’s high school ran a spread that highlighted his mobility.
There aren't a ton of HS teams with very good passers running pure option because pure option teams tend to be doing more with less.
The option on that level is best because it’s a couple ticks above going all in on simplicity and execution. If you have a good QB, in theory you can do more, but most HS offenses have to trend more run because to get a actually good passing offenses you need that QB, guys who can catch consistently and a line that can pass block a lick. And all three is a harder bargain. So you either recruit that, or you just sort of build piecemeal.
The sport is littered with teams trying to run offenses more complicated than they can execute, but the ones that can be complicated, usually by dint of talent, have an edge because you need to be athletic as hell to cover for the face most HS defenders will have a hell of a time getting in the way of a well-thrown ball.
(UW had a four-star pro style QB run the veer. His team was so good, it wasn’t changing. Also worth noting, pro style offenses often depress passing numbers anyway)
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I'm pretty sure a guy with 4 stars plus labeled "dual threat" can pass extremely well. All of the 2020 recruits I glanced at had over 3,000 yards, often over 2-3 years.
The "pro style" seems to refer to a tall guy who is less mobile but can throw it 70 yards on the back foot. Both types likely will be effective in college. The "pro style" guy probably should avoid going to schools that run the option most of the time though.
I'm musing about Fields versus Jacob Eason. Both have strong arms, Fields is a bit more mobile (but not really fast). Eason was a gun slinger in HS and his first year in college, he's rarely going to run. Fields was used as mostly a runner but clearly could pass well. Fields was 220 pounds in HS, he got used to running over people.
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Justin Fields might be the answer to my question. He ran nearly as often as he passed in HS, 127 pass attempts and 109 runs as a senior.
279-191 as a junior.
So, there.
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Well 3 of the next 4 QB recruits for 2020 didn't pass for 3000 yds. And Brad Johnson's kid has crap stats, but he's 6'7" with a gun.
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Then I’m not sure Syracuse should be on your list. I watched those Syracuse teams and while the option was definitely part of their offense I’m not sure they were doing it more than 1 in 5 plays. I’d honestly wonder about Holtz’s ND teams too and what their rate was.
I'll just have these types of teams have option plays in the offense, just not with the additional risk/reward of additional fumbles/long TD runs. Thanks.