CFB51 College Football Fan Community
The Power Five => Big Ten => Topic started by: OrangeAfroMan on July 11, 2019, 05:19:49 PM
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I was watching some old games on youtube, and I found there have been a lot of good, productive, SLOW running backs. In the 2006 Florida-Alabama game, each team had one: DeShawn Wynn always looked like he was hobbling around, never actually running, much less running fast. And Kenneth Darby, a guy many probably don't even remember, had two 1,000 yard season for Bama.
These are guys that might have run a 4.6 or 4.65 or something at the combine or their pro day, but on a normal day, in a game, they're running 4.7 or worse...and still getting yards. Many may be bigger guys, but not necessarily.
Florida's all-time leading rusher was slow as hell - Errict Rhett. He weighed 215 but played like he was 240.
Dayne was slow, but a bowling ball, obviously.
Mike Hart
Cory Clement
Anthony Thomas
PJ Hill
Darnell Autry
Keith Byars
All those Minnesota RBs when they had 2-3 get 1000 yd seasons like 15 years ago
Non- B10ers:
Anthony Dixon (Miss St)
Benny Snell (UK)
Shaun Alexander (Bama)
Neal Anderson
Ernest Graham (Fla)
Travis Henry (Tenn)
Stephen Davis (Aub)
Rodney Hampton (UGA)
Raymond Priester (Clem)
Leon Johnson (UNC)
James Connor (Pitt)
Tashard Choice (GT)
Terry Kirby (UVa)
Natrone Means (UNC)
Greg Jones (FSU) - turned himself into a giant bodybuilder, like David Boston
Cedric Benson - Texas - probably the slowest uber-productive college back that wasn't fat
Jorvorskie Lane - A&M
Ka'Deem Carey - Arizona
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Any others?
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Alstott was somewhere in the 4.65-4.7 range. But like Dayne, quite the bowling ball.
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Michigan had some slow ones. UNL. MSU. PSU. Iowa has had its share too. They all have. Where do you find how fast/slow these guys were?
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Mike Hart is still by far my favorite Michigan RB. It helps that we shared campus at the same time, but I think it's mostly how I've never seen a lower variance back at any level of football. Did he ever have a regular season fumble? Also his YPC standard deviation could honestly have been zero and no one could tell the difference. For my fandom of him, it'd be good to see, for the last few decades, "lowest percentage of negative yard and zero yard plays." No matter what happened in front of him, he earned the same yardage and kept the team ahead of schedule.
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Michigan had some slow ones. UNL. MSU. PSU. Iowa has had its share too. They all have. Where do you find how fast/slow these guys were?
I just hit the googles. Had links discussion to Alstott's combine results and apparently the Bucs said he was like a 4.74.
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http://bluenatic.blogspot.com/2008/04/remembering-rodney.html (http://bluenatic.blogspot.com/2008/04/remembering-rodney.html)
Says Hampton had a 4.65 40 time. I think some of these guys were relatively faster in pads than some 4.5 safety running in shorts having to play in pads.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bjVkSOpUBQo (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bjVkSOpUBQo)
Herschel claims to be able to run a 4.35 - now.
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Wynn was actually a 4.49 guy.
On the Wisconsin front. I forgot Clement was that bad at the 40. He had decent breakaway speed, but was not that good his last year.
Hill was a big, 4.6 40 back who wasn’t that powerful and kinda relied on breaking longish ones. He is truly the example of the UW O-line making someone.
Dayne was surprisingly nimble and hit you with the 30-40 yard back breakers when he smushed a safety and didn’t go down. In the 1999 OSU game, there’s a hilarious play when he’s chased down.
I don’t think Montee ball was that fast, but he was crafty and modestly powerful.
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Some guys have great vision, some are very shifty (Knowshon Moreno was not very fast), some guys are very powerful, the real speedsters may not be that good if they don't have aspects of those other things.
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For OU, Samaje Perrine, who came out after the '17 season and is now with the Redskins, is not all that fast.
And the 1969 Heisman winner, Steve Owens, was not all that fast.
In my memory, Texas RB Roosevelt Leaks, who was great and set a ton of records, wasn't all that fast.
How about a thread for fast FBs? OU had some of those back in the wishbone days.
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Wynn was actually a 4.49 guy.
He may have been, but good god, actually watching him play every game...he ran like he had a club foot. I'm not joking. He'd lumber about, never actually sprinting in a line. it was odd. He came from Ohio and he was the starting RB when we won the NC vs OSU. I know it was his way to maximize yardage, but I haven't seen anyone quite like him, in terms of style.
Looked like he was stepping on LEGOs barefoot.
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Tyreese Knox. I never thought Corell buckhalter was that fast, hed run 10 yards and fall over.
Lydell Carr was a badass FB for OU. All timer.
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If you don't weigh at least 230, MSU has no interest in you.
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Was Barry Sanders notably fast? Shifty, obviously, but did he have straight line speed to burn?
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Yeah, I want to say he ran a 4.37.
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Mike Hart is still by far my favorite Michigan RB.
Mine Too!!! ;D
(https://www.cfb51.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fs3media.247sports.com%2FUploads%2FAssets%2F699%2F3%2F3003699.jpg&hash=410ee4b9d1996d6fda43a0703d009972)
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Some guys have great vision, some are very shifty (Knowshon Moreno was not very fast), some guys are very powerful,
Archie Griffin seemed like that not flat out sprinters speed but great balance,quick,shifty
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Earl Campbell?
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Leroy Hoard
If you need 1 yard, I'll get you 3. If you need 5 I'll get you 3.
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Earl Campbell?
Lots of highlights of him breaking long runs, even with smaller guys chasing him and not catching him. Even in the NFL. I'd cerrtainly take Campbell over a Rodney Hampton in a race.
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Shonn Greene was probably the best RB in the KF era at Iowa, and he wasn't all that fast. I think he timed a 4.55 in the '09 combine.
Penn State's Saquon Barkley was very similar in size to Greene, but had a very strong 4.40.
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I think Earl C. was the first big man with speed, that I can recall. I remember watching him high step breaking tackles and then running the distance, so I agree he had some speed.
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Saw Earl play at old Cleveland Stadium.The Browns at the time had a LB Robert Jackson from TA&M who was a 1st rd pick.They played against each other in college.And Jackson was one of the few who could stop Earl,the secret was getting to him fast before he got a head of steam.Otherwise forget it.Unfortunately Jackson ripped up his knees and was only around for 5 years
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Earl caused much damage to opposing LBs knees
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http://bluenatic.blogspot.com/2008/04/remembering-rodney.html (http://bluenatic.blogspot.com/2008/04/remembering-rodney.html)
Says Hampton had a 4.65 40 time. I think some of these guys were relatively faster in pads than some 4.5 safety running in shorts having to play in pads.
I think this is a key and it is harder to quantify objectively. In theory it should favor bigger guys because the added weight (pads and etc) would be a lower percentage of their body weight but I'm not sure how that plays out in actual games.
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The "with pads" thing is something you get if you played football for a number of years.
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When you first play tackle football, everything you wear seems like an obstacle. The 4-5 lb helmet on your head feels heavy. The facemask is in the way of your vision, the shoulder pads restrict your arm movements, etc. Even the knee pads drooping if your have ill-fitting pants slow you down.
As you play more and more, you get used to all of it, and some get used to it more or better than others. I knew guys in HS who still tilted their head back to look out below their facemasks. They never got comfortable with it.
So the guys who seem to "play fast" with pads on are simply the ones most comfortable out there. Their facemask no longer affects their vision, or perceived vision. They're used to the mobility restrictions and have had plenty of opportunities to work around it with confidence. They're the ones sure to get the right pants/pads/etc so they feel fast, and it's no longer a concern.
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Mike Hart probably ran 4.75 on a good day. Slow as dirt for a RB, but to this day still one of the best college RBs I think I’ve ever seen. Complete back that could catch and block, think he fumbled once or twice in his entire career, and he had that nose for the end zone. When he was close to the goal line, he was getting TD’s. Really just the perfect college RB.
De’Veon Smith and Brandon Minor were pretty damn slow too. And they were probably the best RBs that Michigan had post Hart. Shows just how bad the RB position was at Michigan for years. That was until Karan Higdon had a breakout year of sorts in 2017 and followed it up with a better 2018. Higdon wasn’t a blazer by any means but his 4.49 he posted at the NFL combine definitely ain’t slow.
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shaun alexander wasn't that slow. he wasn't a burner, but he wasn't a 4.7 guy either. he just had a long/low stride that was deceptive.
darby is a good example of a rb with more quickness than speed.
shaud williams is another one. true 4.7 guy, but had 900+ in 02 taking over for injured starter and 1300+ yards the next season as starter. somewhat ironically, the most memorable play from shaud was the first play from scrimmage vs arky in 2002. this 80 yard burst up the middle (about 30 seconds in) (http://this 80 yard burst up the middle)
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Holyfield of course hurt his draft position with a slow 40 time. I thought pretty highly of him as a running back. He had the speed to get outside against at least some teams fairly often and would bounce it if the hole was not there. I think he'll do OK in the NFL.
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Cory Ross at Nebraska ran a 4.59 Combine
ran for 169 vs Southern Miss, over 1100 yards in 2004
had a couple big bowl games
Played a while in the NFL
Rex Burkhead had a horrible 40 time of 4.73, looks faster than that on the field
not many slow Husker I-backs, we could talk fullbacks
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Ameer wasn't that fast.
I think according to old power index that Nebraska puts their guys through since the late 70s, Keith Jones had the fastest 40 time. Fabian Washington was in that 4.2 range too but he was a DB.
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End Zone Jones - 4.31
Frost could use more backs like him growing up in Omaha
averaged 7.2 yards per carry on 170 totes in 87
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It seems we have enumerated quite a few very good RBs who were not that fast. What would be the best of them do you think?
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shaun alexander wasn't that slow. he wasn't a burner, but he wasn't a 4.7 guy either. he just had a long/low stride that was deceptive.
He was so frustrating to watch if you were playing Alabama.
I loved watching him otherwise. He was as fast as he needed to be. Great at that immediate cutback right at the hand-off. If you were 4-5 yards away and he had a head of steam, he would make you miss every time with one, decisive cut.
If Correll Buckhalter was the king of getting tripped up by ankle tackles, Shaun Alexander was his opposite. Guys would latch on, slide down his legs, and he'd step right out of it, every time, over and over.
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Earl wasn't slow enough to qualify
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I believe Switzer once said Earl Campbell was the first player he ever saw that could've played on Sunday out of high school. Dupree was the 2nd, but of course he ended up w his own issues.
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Barry knew RBs
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Earl Campbell had a better head than Marcus Dupree.
Absent injuries, Earl Campbell could have been the greatest running back in NFL history.
So could Billy Sims, of course.
But there are surely several other guys who could legitimately make that claim.
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Yet Campbell's greatness wouldn't allow for him to last.
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There's a lot of luck involved when you start talking about career-ending injuries. Earl's luck was not good. Neither was Billy's.
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many ways for careers to end prematurely
a little luck could have saved many careers
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Mike Hart was slow but always seemed to fall forward and gain positive yards. All time rushing leader a Michigan. Vary rarely fumbled.
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I like the quote about needing 3 yards.
I'd prefer to have a runner who almost guarantees 3-4-5 yards to one who breaks long ones every so often. Sometimes, you can just RTDB and wear out the defense.
It's like the VY story that someone told him the defense knew their plays and he said "So?".
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I like the quote about needing 3 yards.
I'd prefer to have a runner who almost guarantees 3-4-5 yards to one who breaks long ones every so often. Sometimes, you can just RTDB and wear out the defense.
It's like the VY story that someone told him the defense knew their plays and he said "So?".
VY was the most unstoppable college player I’ve ever seen. I swear when the guy was on and in the zone he was literally impossible to stop. Still to this day the best college QB that I’ve ever seen.
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That NC game remains the best CFB game I've ever seen. The key players involved were determined to win.
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VY was the most unstoppable college player I’ve ever seen. I swear when the guy was on and in the zone he was literally impossible to stop. Still to this day the best college QB that I’ve ever seen.
Okay, but what about when he wasn't in the zone?
OU fans were big VY fans in 2014, when he went 8-23 with no TDs and didn't have any big running plays. Got shut out. It's nothing against you or Young, it just bothers me when the focus is on the outliers of what a guy did.
VY was a good passer, great runner, and the best scrambler ever, probably. Saying he could've been a better passer doesn't take away from who he was or the other great things he did.
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I like the quote about needing 3 yards.
I'd prefer to have a runner who almost guarantees 3-4-5 yards to one who breaks long ones every so often. Sometimes, you can just RTDB and wear out the defense.
You say this, and everyone falls over themselves jerking off over Barry Sanders and shitting on Emmitt Smith.
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That NC game remains the best CFB game I've ever seen. The key players involved were determined to win.
All players in every NC game are determined to win. Some are just more able.
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There's a lot of luck involved when you start talking about career-ending injuries. Earl's luck was not good. Neither was Billy's.
You couldn't run like Campbell did and have a long career.
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The Campbell era and before, it was thought cowardly to run out of bounds. Never let the sideline make a tackle.
TD Tony Dorsett was one of the first to avoid contact and head for the sideline
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I just watched my first extended highlight film of Tony Dorsett the other day. Boy, he played fast! Not just a fast RB, but hit the hole fast - like he had supreme confidence in his blocking.
Also, when did his name go from Dorsitt (how multiple announcers said it) to Door-sett, how I've heard it pronounced my whole life?
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VY was the most unstoppable college player I’ve ever seen. I swear when the guy was on and in the zone he was literally impossible to stop. Still to this day the best college QB that I’ve ever seen.
VY was one of those guys who just didn't look "fast", but left everyone in their dust. I found Calvin Johnson to be the same.
They look like they're basically just jogging, and nobody can keep up.
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long strides
VY was one of the best in the open field
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I just watched my first extended highlight film of Tony Dorsett the other day. Boy, he played fast! Not just a fast RB, but hit the hole fast - like he had supreme confidence in his blocking.
Also, when did his name go from Dorsitt (how multiple announcers said it) to Door-sett, how I've heard it pronounced my whole life?
Re "Dorsett," he changed the pronunciation around his senior year. I remember that his sister basically rolled her eyes when he did that.
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Hypesman campaign
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You betcha!